Open forum, May 12-18



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-The most interesting number of the day is 61 percent-

In the latest CNN/ORC International poll, released Sunday, 61 percent of respondents said they wanted to leave the law as is, or make some changes. Thirty-eight percent said they wanted to repeal the law and replace it with a new system, or go back to the old days before Obamacare. That sounds like people are warming up to the law, or at least afraid of doing anything drastic to change the current status of health care in America.

nailingit — May 12, 2014 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My goodness, it's going to get crazzzzy really fast... and what's with Morning Joe trying to justify this guy? Trying to make Science into religion's need for faith is never gonna happen. Why is this even being talked about by politicians? Don't they have more to worry about than silly things like budgets, jobs bills, the economy, failing infrastructure, immigration, China, and Russia? I mean, between Monica Lewinsky being a poor-taken-advantage-of-sweet-young-thing, trying to get Hillary back in front of the newest 'investigation' on Benghazi, or making fun of Michelle Obama for speaking out on 275 kidnapped girls, these guys are sure busy with the really important stuff...

jacjak — May 12, 2014 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You'd think Aunt Bee baked an apple pie for everyone! Emotions are running high, as Mayberry has been reborn. No, it's not the second coming of JC, but rather, the second coming of JS.

Where's Andy when you need him?

nailingit — May 12, 2014 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — May 12, 2014 at 9:42 a.m

Rubio's an idiot and Dems can only hope he'll get the nod. Hillary would have him for lunch. Wasn't that TV hack Scarborough considering a run for Prez? Look for Rubio to have his own show after his next election effort.

Odd this republican promotes his government employment since his twenties as a positive. Rubio acts like a fish out of water, always trying to find some sort of connect.

"Rubio insists that scientists are exaggerating, noting that “our climate is always changing,” adding that “I don’t know of any era in world history where the climate has been stable.” These comments came a few days after Rubio told CNN that President Obama isn’t really qualified to speak on climate change because he is “not a meteorologist.”"


"Rubio said. “I mean, I’ll be 43 this month, but the other thing that perhaps people don’t realize, I’ve served now in public office for the better part of 14 years.” And Rubio is warming up for the race by attacking Hillary Clinton, saying she deserves an "F" for her tenure at the State Department. “I’m sure she’s going to go out bragging about her time in the State Department. She’s also going to have to be held accountable for its failures, whether it’s the failed reset with Russia or the failure in Benghazi that actually cost lives,” he said."

nailingit — May 12, 2014 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 10:42 a.m.

Guess short term memory loss is a group effort. Wonder why they don't remember throwing Stewart under the bus when she intended to run against Leavitt. She didn't even file, but was 'asked' to step aside for Turley, and crucified her for the property tax vote in order to justify supporting Turley. She may actually have had a chance, too. Both she and Boldt had much to offer as moderates, and no matter how some people try to re-write history, Democrats did vote for Boldt, as I did. It would have been a tougher choice for me, and some of the folks I know, if Stewart were on the ballot instead of Turley. It's water under the bridge now, but some of us are looking for civic leaders, not party members. I sware, some days I feel local politics is some sort time portal back to junior high school hallways. If I had the energy and inclination, I'd check some of the Waters blog from back then just to see what was said about those two candidates and Stewart's vote for a tax increase, but don't want to wade through all the self involved I, I, I's.

But, it's hands down between Pridemore and Stewart, at least for me. No debate at all because of her/his opponent. And, no matter how moderate she thinks she is or intends to be, Madore & Mielke with just toss her into their cream of wheat and have her for breakfast. If nothing else, Madore will simply talk her to pieces.

jacjak — May 12, 2014 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


somebody's got issues w/FoxNews.

i, for one, want to know the following about benghazi, which so far HASN'T been addressed:

1. why weren't the personnel evac'd out of harm's way, like other countries and the red cross? NUMEROUS requests to the state dept were sent requesting this.

2. why wasn't military support on-ready to defend the site?

3. why didn't ANY military respond to the attack? it's easy to say "there wasn't time; they were too far away" but that assumes the speaker KNOWS HOW LONG the attack will last.

4. as for Hillary's "what difference does it make?" attitude, ask the mother of one of the dead soldiers.

5. why was the obama-WH explanation to the entire US a faked reason of some 'video', which even the CIA didn't endorse?

there are enough unanswered questions to more than justify a special NOT controlled by Eric Holder. and i, for one, need to know the answers.

DeeLittle — May 12, 2014 at 10:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No depths too low for these guys.

-Karl Rove Suggests Hillary Clinton May Have Brain Damage (UPDATE)-

nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @ 7:48 a.m.

Yes, ole Rover is in big gargantuan enormous denial now... it's all over the news that he's having to retract one of his statements yet again. And, as a glasses-wearing guy it's really strange to focus on glasses wearing as a reason to point at brain injury.... it could lead to a unintended public exam of his own brain. Hasn't this old dog heard of some treatments for double vision, lazy eye, crossed eyes? Or just taking a break from not wearing contacts?

jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Like most people of her generation That didn't Inhale, I would say most have some sort of Brain Drain... For Hillary it's just so exasperating to listen to her when she is asked tough questions. She never answers one and tries to re state the question in her words and not the persons words who asked the question. Karl Rove just said that she should come forward with why she spent the time in and out of the Hospital. All the politicians get a health check up at some point during the presidential race, so I would think what happened to her would be up to her to explain. You certainly wouldn't want a president that has a diminished capacity when having to make the decisions they do. John Mcain faced the same questions from the left, it's really a non story if you ask me. But hey the Left is grasping for anything these days ..
CNN report

I like the one accomplishment that was noted by a reader.
She is number 1 in frequent flyer miles.

vanwadreamer — May 13, 2014 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My God vanwa, this must be why basement conservatives rarely source where they get their news. Stick to The Enquirer. :))

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The media must be destroyed where they stand. That is our mission at Truth Revolt. The goal of TruthRevolt is simple: unmask leftists in the media for who they are, destroy their credibility with the American public, and devastate their funding bases.

TruthRevolt focuses on high-profile media members, and holding them accountable. But TruthRevolt does not stop there. TruthRevolt understands that all politics is local, and therefore looks to fight leftist propaganda at the local level, monitoring local newspapers, television and radio. TruthRevolt also seeks to stop the left dead in its tracks when it comes to training the next generation, our college campuses.

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nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A fun write for our Face Book dwellers.

-21 Warning Signs You’re Becoming a Social Media Snob-

nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.

Even 'Bush's Brain' is stupid! Stuff like this reflects poorly with most people. These guys love digging themselves holes.

nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And they use that system to pillory conservatives as heartless bigots intent on harming the poor and targeting minorities.
nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 12:07 p.m.

Yep, so pay no attention to the those same sweet and loving innocent conservatives behind the curtain: those in the House who passed the GOP budget on April 10th that guts more services for....wait for it.. wait for it... yes, the poor and minorities. And can't forget about those pilloried innocents in the Senate that blocked the energy efficiency bill just yesterday, and blocked the minimum wage increase proposal on April 30th, and blocked the Equal Pay Bill on April 9th. All of which would benefit ... yep...the poor and minorities.

Poor dears just can't get a break. 'Fair and just' is a quaint idea anyway. Pay no attention to that idea, or to facts. The steady drip, drip, drip water torture dialog of how media is the only bad guy, and how misunderstood they are, is all that's needed. Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck said so, so it must be so. Who's Hannity, by the way?

jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 1:35 p.m.

"Who's Hannity, by the way?"

Michelle Malkin in a male-like body.

nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 13, 2014 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey roger, what you been cooking lately? Anything interesting? Nothing spectacular tonight around here... it's beans & rice w/ cornbread. Shades of childhood in a crockpot so I could be outdoors more of the day.

jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm cookin'!!! Vegas is hot.

Hey Nails, ever eaten at Lucille's? Great BBQ. I had the pastrami sandwich. Very lean, on a pretzel bun with swiss cheese, pickles and cole slaw. Sooooo good. Starting home tomorrow morning. Stop over in Reno for a few days.

Hawkman — May 13, 2014 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — May 13, 2014 at 8:09 p.m.

Hey hawkman. No I haven't, but it sounds dang good. I love a good pastrami, but prefer provolone with onion & mustard. Safeway's pastrami is really lean and tasty. I'm getting hungry.

Mom says it's getting hot early down there. Be safe.


jacjak — May 13, 2014 at 6:47 p.m.

I christened my new Weber (forrest green) and grilled NY Steaks on Mother's Day for my better half. Totally rocked. I left the best smelling carbon imprint this side of Yakima.

nailingit — May 13, 2014 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

About the only cooking I do in the summer is on the grill. Last weekend was country style ribs (dry rub, and basted with a cider vinegar and yellow mustard mixture) and foil wrapped corn on the cob (butter, kosher salt and freshly ground pepper).

roger — May 14, 2014 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What happened? This is terrible!:)

The insurers are proposing an average rate increase of 8.25 percent — the lowest average rate change requested in seven years, according to the insurance commissioner's office. Last year, insurers requested an average increase of 8.95 percent; the insurance commissioner approved an average increase of 8.78 percent.

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 6:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Barbacue talk... yum! Hubby's the grill master around here. All I have to do is belly up to all that carnivore goodness. Loved our Weber, but it was time to let the ole guy go. Lo and behold, GWB mailed us a wad of taxpayer money and instructed us to 'shop to save the economy'. So we took our windfall and bought the 'George W. Bush Memorial Grill'. It can be seen from the moon. Works great, but still...miss the ritual of coals. Something primal about it. Roger, the corn sounds great!

jacjak — May 14, 2014 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My Daughter (down here) has a Traeger grill. When I got here she said she wanted to cook some chicken for dinner so she started the thing up and it wouldn't fire. After I looked it up online and gave myself a crash course on it, I disassembled the control box and attacked it with my multi-meter. Seems the "hot-rod" wasn't working. It fits into a piece of pipe at the bottom of the fire box. I had to take it out and get another one. That was another job and a half. Soooo, the chicken had to wait for one more day. After all that, I turned it on, it took 2 minutes and it fired up. You set the temp, put the food on the grill and leave it for about the same amount of time as the oven. It cooks really good, the chicken turned out great.

Hawkman — May 14, 2014 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jj/Hawkman — This is my first Weber buy in over a decade. I'm passing on my well maintained, well traveled 17" Sivertop w/table (Diamond Blue) to one of my daughters, and bought the 1-Step Gold 22.5" rack (GR). What a dif in grilling space. This old school griller is in BBQ heaven. I'm a diehard Weber junkie and couldn't live with myself if I switched to another brand, or God forbid, gas. :) You can't beat coal to cook with imo.

To note: Weber does make a few high end gas grills.

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hot Damn! It's even got a temp gauge! I'm embracing modern technology.

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I agree. Nothing makes a burger better thank good old charcoal. Most likely we are increasing our carbon foot print. But I think I will not worry about that. Maybe New Yorks tonight.

timerick — May 14, 2014 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey timerick, don't forget the Merlot. We're a dying breed. Seems like everyone grills gas or electric nowadays. I don't know how you cook your steaks. I've tried various ways but settled on a few dynamics over the years. For steak- High heat and cook the meat at room temp. I apply the '10 minutes grilling for every inch' rule, and adjust from there to accommodate personal taste doneness. Without flipping, (seals in flavor imo) 1"= five minutes on each side. (but moving the select meat manna 90* to get that checkered in charred look) I prep the meat with a thin coating of x-tra virgin oil (conducts heat and seals flavor) followed by a good salting and pepper. I got these last NY cuts from Chuck's Produce and they were exceptional.

I think I've talked myself into what to have for dinner!

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 3:35 p.m

Ok, now you done it! What time can I come over?

We don't do much steaks anymore. I love to make a tritip roast though in a Romer pot, with onions and peppers. Now that is good eats!

luvithere — May 14, 2014 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — May 14, 2014 at 4:16 p.m.

Anytime luvit. For Mom's Day I grilled asparagus tips & onion slices in a ventilated metal bowl while cooking the meat, again with a light coat of oil on the tips. Primo taste. I grilled husked corn at the same time, (if not for anything else to marvel at the extra grill space) but generally prefer it boiled or grill foiled on the cob. Add some baked potato, garlic bread......yowza! It was enough to make me stop thinking about politics & saving America for awhile.

nailingit — May 14, 2014 at 4:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Pretty dead in here...

Best debate ever.

A couple of highlights:

@19:43 on political correctness ...@34:00 on taxes...

-Harley Brown for Prez-

nailingit — May 16, 2014 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Been pretty dead on the face book side also. If some are like me they have been busy. Between work and getting home and the boss has me pressure washing patios,side walks and driveways it does not leave much time. I am starting to think it is time to down size and move into a condo. Let someone else do the maintaining.

timerick — May 16, 2014 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yea, I came on to see if anybody is around. Pretty dead everywhere. It's the weather. That rare sun and warm temps make us all go outside.
Tim, we got so many things to do for spring cleanup, I am at the point that I am wondering if downsizing is the answer. But then...nah.

luvithere — May 16, 2014 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

'Hello, hello, hello... is anybody in there?'

Weather's nice and I've been busy too, but did check in two days in a row. Kept getting a 'forbidden' error #402 I think it was, but only for the Open Forum. Thought it was cause I tried to clean up this OLD computer and screwed something up. Finally tried hubby's whiz-bang-tricked-out-newest-model Alienware, and got the same error. Called yesteday afternoon, and yep, the problem was on their end.

But still, it's a little slow. Did check out nailingit's link to see if I were a social media snob -- I'm sooo not!

Read a bit more on the whole 'net neutrality' debate, but sure need to read more! Always wonder at my own level of distrust when it comes to questions I never thought I'd have to consider, such as internet regulation. It's such a genie in a bottle. Or more a magic carpet. It can take you anywhere, answer anything. It can enlighten, enrich, empower, update, liberate, connect, and offend. And, much more. Will they try to regulate content next? Do I want all that regulated? Hell, no! And, if they start with broadband regulation, is that just a foot in the door to a much broader 'take over', chipping away bit by bit until it's just another fee ladened dull utility?

Right now I can publish my own writings, start a online business, meet a zillion potential dates and mates, learn languages, transfer monies, see sky maps, ocean bottoms, or my own grandkid singing in his highchair half a continent away in real time. Ultimately, as with most things, these sorts of questions comes down to 'how does this impact ME?' And, who does the FCC work for, anyway?

Well, captcha sure didn't get a 'forbidden' error!

jacjak — May 16, 2014 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In the words of Paul Simon..... Gee it's great to be back home!!!

Drove from Reno this morning, man that's a drive. Pretty through Shasta. Have to catch up but I'll be back.

Hawkman — May 16, 2014 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mister Lou have a pretty interesting Press Talk discussion, today. You talk about as sweet as a young politician running for office for the first time which leaves me a bit skeptical.

One question for you, though...and I'm not trying to be malicious or anything, just this inquiring mind wanting to understand a bit more about a little EPA information I stumbled upon. Do you know which one I'm speaking about??? Well sir, I'll give you a hint.

It's located on an EPA report, designating June 7, 2012...a violation of the RCRA (Resource Conservation and Recovery Act). I'm sure the C took care of it...but what about the possibility of residuals??? What if something more seriously happened??? It could happen with the chemicals used in production of hard copy.

Is the C equipped to take care of any hazardous issues??? What if it got into the stormwater and was a bigger problem than you could handle??? THEN who would pay for it?

It is my opinion (and my opinion only) that a PRIVATE company such as yours should be compliant with county stormwater rules (which it revealed your company IS currently compliant and has a pretty clean history, all except for the one minor issue). To pay a fee which SHOULD go into the cost of a potential clean up should be mandatory and it shouldn't be put on the backs of the taxpayers, sir. Your boss runs the business...he profits from it...he has responsibilities.

So you have to pay a fee!!! What's the big deal???

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 7:32 a.m.

Funny how NOTHING you wrote about has anything to do with the newest County fee on newspapers. This fee is "supposed" to be about newspapers in the storm water system which do NOT exist.

I have been cleaning up after "people" for the last year. I have picked up everything from cigarette butts to feces but I have NEVER found - to this day- any newspapers. Not one page! Not even for toilet paper.

Oh, and about paying a fee for something you "might" do? Seriously?

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 11:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — "So you have to pay a fee!!! What's the big deal???"

It appears to be wildly disproportionate. In other words, unfair, and given the timing and dynamics, it's not a stretch to assume this was not only a politically motivated idea, but an idea meant to bring down competition for a future Madore backed paper.

Thuggery at the BOCC?


BTW, is anyone privy to any recent news regarding a Madore backed newspaper? I'd like to read about the taxpayer free third bridge he's promised us.

nailingit — May 17, 2014 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Back in the day, didn't Madore used to comment here before he became a Face Book snob? I urge him to partake once again.

I also urge groups such as cg32 (I think that's the name) to be as transparent with their Face Book page as Commissioner Madore is, and have a page that allows those of us who haven't succumbed to Face Book privacy concerns to follow content somewhat.

End Avatarial anonymity discrimination.

nailingit — May 17, 2014 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's located on an EPA report, designating June 7, 2012...a violation of the RCRA (Resource Conservation and Recovery Act).
goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 7:32 a.m.

It's hard to tell exactly what you're referring to, what with all the capitalized words interjected throughout, and a prodigious amount of questions complete with multiple question marks after each one...

But, were you referring to when State Representative Paul Harris poured paint down the storm drains from the paint store he owned at the time?

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Run out of foil, Dee?

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

science not your subject, huh....

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 17, 2014 at 12:47 p.m.

You funny, nail.

If you think he will EVER come on here and answer ANY question, you need the foil more than dee. That jerk will NEVER give a straight answer to anybody. Like I have always said, he a used car salesman to the nth degree.

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


actually, your time/interest ratio hasn't risen to the minimum performance level required, after adequate improvement time has been allowed. sorry, but i'm going to have to find a replacement for you.

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 2:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

science not your subject, huh....

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 2:11 p.m.

No, I like science. When you find some from a reliable source, let me know.

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 1:54 p.m.

The article says the dispersion of the radio signal suggests it probably originated from a long distance - perhaps billions of light years. If accurate, then a commenter named logico nailed it - whoever or whatever the source, it's almost definitely long gone.

roger — May 17, 2014 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


actually, your time/interest ratio hasn't risen to the minimum performance level required, after adequate improvement time has been allowed. sorry, but i'm going to have to find a replacement for you.

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 2:21 p.m.

Feel free to do what you need to do. However, I doubt you'll find anyone that can 1. semi-understand you and 2. care to.

Thanks for playing and good luck.

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My take has always been that once the CRC was dead, then Madore, Mielke and Benton would have served their purpose for a lot of us and they would be voted out. With 4 commissioner districts, that may no longer hold for Madore - I presume he'll be in the new east County district that will mainly lose the people further in toward the main part of the city. (Yes, Goldie, the way I read the proposed map, we here in the 5 Corners area will be in a new 2nd district that includes all those people eastward to I5, that used to be in the 3rd.)

roger — May 17, 2014 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

whoever or whatever the source, it's almost definitely long gone. roger — May 17, 2014 at 2:41 p.m.

like pulsars, they're extremely rare, but the frb wasn't a singular event. so, we're gonna eventually pick up another one....somewhere, somehow.

just hope the equipment that does it tells us more than 'hey, look what *I* just heard!!".

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — May 17, 2014 at 12:18 p.m.

Nails...anything a politician does is politically motivated...including county commissioners...8))

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 1:36 p.m.

jacjak...This was a different issue. What I'm understanding from the EPA report is that it was a regular inspection and they found violations which again...if I'm reading it correctly, they quickly took care of the issue.

Regarding Paul Harris...that one still bothers me as well as the problem of painting companies not properly removing leaded paint from older buildings. The sad truth is there are still slipshod contractors at all levels of construction trades as well as industrial trades who are trying to cut corners to make a buck...always about the money, you notice?!? (btw, I never voted for PH)

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 11:35 a.m.

Seriously??? You are joking with your post now, aren't you??? If you aren't...then maybe that heat in Vegas got to ya. You know it's not just about newspapers in drainage holes, right? Please tell me you know that.

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, I was doing a bit of checking on information through astronomy magazines and found the best information on NASA's own website. It makes for a good tabloid news article...wishing that it might be alien communication, but the scientists are saying otherwise.

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — May 17, 2014 at 2:50 p.m.

2nd district, eh??? Hmm...that'll make for an interesting election year when it happens.

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:08 p.m.

Nope, not joking. From the email I got from Benton himself, that was the reason he mentioned. He said he got the info from one of "his" managers that newspapers were on of the biggest polluters in the wastewater system.

And I quote

"Thanks for your feedback. Yes, cigarette butts are also a big one. The information came from a brainstorming session of all department managers. Along with paper coffee cups, cans and bottles, apparently newspaper is a top 5 item suck in our storm drains. I presented a list of 16 different options to the commissioners but of course you wouldn’t read that in the paper!"

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

.wishing that it might be alien communication, but the scientists are saying otherwise. goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:21 p.m


it is definitely alien, communicates SOMEthing, and is being received by little ol' evolved rodents - us.

the only thing it almost certainly ISN'T is a life-to-universe communication. >sigh

DeeLittle — May 17, 2014 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman @ 3:56 p.m.

It's the word 'apparently' in Benton's response to you that is at the crux of the accused ineptitude. Where's his documentation? His percentage breakdown? Where is absolutely anything to back up what he is saying about newspaper litter? He does not give it to you, to the journalist asking questions for an article, or to the citizens of Clark County. If he got through college with that sort of research to back up his words, no wonder he is not a better representative.

DeeLittle @ 2:21 p.m.

My guess it's some sort of residual relic from the 'big bang' birthing groans. Or maybe it's 'gravitational waves'. Those are really old too, and so far their existence is still theory, but about 90 years ago Albert Einstein said they existed as part of the Relativity theory, and no one can yet prove they don't exist, so maybe they do.

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 17, 2014 at 3:24 p.m.

Hmmm... On closer look, my memory of those maps was off. Orchards is all chopped up. If you're south of 63rd Street, you're in District 3. Below 76th and west of 117th Ave puts you in District 2, along with the downtown crowd. Above 76th Street puts you in District 1, And by the time you get to Brush Praire, you're in District 4.

roger — May 17, 2014 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit @12:47 p.m.

As I seem to be the new kid in the basement that makes comments, perhaps I should not state my druthers, but not sure I'd like it if Madore showed up here. As an preconceived agenda driven representative, I doubt if there'd be any straight talk, candid responses, or areas of flexibility. If this is not so, he's hidden it extremely well. He's fairly one dimensional in his positions and perspectives, and seems to be so full of them I doubt there'd be any room for debate. Perhaps it takes a certain mindset to be open to his type of eloquence, which I don't have. He had his mind made up about all things before he ever posted his first comment on the Columbian, and he romanced a whole community with his emblematic dialog. Doubt much would be exchanged (key word), just another platform for more pontificating.

Does anyone follow him on Twitter? When he stated "Supreme Court rules-prayer is a part of the nation's fabric, not a violation of the First Amendment", it linked back to his FB page that showed a timeline photo with a banner that states "Praying Like David...for Clark County", with a glossy christian cross made to look like the United States flag. I guess it's the word 'Like' that underscores why I think it'd be pointless trying to exchange opinions or ask questions. Those with a less egocentric center would probably have used the word 'With' as part of a group seeking a common goal.

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 7:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Like I said @ 7:22 p.m.

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'd say people need to worry less about Madore/Mielke and more about Lynda Wilson and John Ley. These two represent the extreme fringes of the conservative movement - The We The People/Liberty Alliance crowd who have taken control of the local Republican party.

John Ley wants Brandon Vick's seat, calling him too moderate. (No one is taking Mike Briggs seriously in that race.) A chance for Dems to show they learned a hard truth from the Madore election - not voting for the moderate Repub is the same as voting for the extremist.

And Wilson is after Monica Stonier's seat. I'd normally say no chance, but given that it's an off year and Pres Obama's popularity is flagging, predictions are that a much higher percentage of Democrats will skip voting than Repubs (the same analysis is being used to say the Repubs are closing in on a 50/50 shot at taking the Senate too, by the way). Monica Stonier came to my door AGAIN a couple of weeks ago to ask me for my vote. Two years ago she had to work to get me; this time it was easy as can be - she kept her campaign promises the first time and showed she can be trusted. A rare trait.

roger — May 17, 2014 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 6:20 p.m.

JJ, i totally agree with you. Just for fun (and to give you a giggle) here is the rest of the letter.

"Due to the fact that this department was bankrupt when I took it over, the commissioners have been looking for a way to lessen the burden on homeowners (taxes) and instructed me to gather information on who else might be asked to pay to support the clean water dept. other than just homeowners. This is why a list of other potential payers was created.

Thanks again,

Don Benton
Director, Environmental Services Department
360-397-2121 extension 5358"

Hawkman — May 17, 2014 at 10:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Give the Charter a chance, folks. Evaluate it with as much objectivity you can muster. I've endured watching every single meeting and attended several in person. I've chatted with most of the freeholders. Who is doing most of the compromising? Those leaning left. Who has led the group in most reasonable ideas? Joe Zarelli. He should run for one of the new open seats and I hope he does.

roger: I agree with you about Lynda Wilson and John Ley. Clark County politics can even get worse.

nailingit: Not a social media snob yet. Just working a little in the community and traveling more. :)

timerick: Do more research before you make the condo leap. I'll stop by some day at work and say hello.

hawkman: My Traeger's "hot rod" was slow to wake up after spending a winter under cover outside. I wouldn't have the skills or energy to replace it, however, so kudos to you for taking on that task for your daughter. Your barbeque talk inspired me and I smoked a brisket all day after reading it.

jacjak: Madore won't bother with us here, but is doing a better job of not blocking so many oppositional voices as he once did on FB. He is getting called out on his fact errors, but he has a masterful way of positive spin that causes his base to shudder in delight. Mr. Sloganeer. A wonder to behold, really. How does he do that? It is interesting to observe that, when some "liberals" have agreed with him or praised him for a particular issue, his base has started to turn on him. Black and white thinkers will punish him for the rare ideas he poses that the left like. There's a political strategy idea hidden in there somewhere. Notice how he has been hands-off on endorsing Jeanne Stewart so far? Maybe Temple Lentz should jump on the Madore bandwagon, quick. :)

Enjoy your Sunday, everyone. You generate good conversations here.

manthou — May 18, 2014 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Question: Where were you when Mount St. Helens exploded?

Me? I had just found out I was pregnant with twins and was shopping early that Sunday morning for prenatal vitamins at the Fred Meyer on Hawthorne in SE Portland. We all heard the explosion in the store and then the rumble of voices repeating, "the mountain blew."

Remember the ash in the gutters? Like cement.

manthou — May 18, 2014 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — May 17, 2014 at 7:22 p.m.

Does the word "opportunist" come to mind???

Good morning, manthou!!! I was at home with my husband, my (then) 6-month-old daughter and niece when the sonic boom hit the Vancouver area. We had our patio screen door open...a bit on the chilly side (like today's temps)...and the sound reverberated through the house. All that went through my mind and shouted out was "What the...did the mountain blow her lid???"

When we did have the ash settle into our region which I thought was a different time from May 18th (so long ago), I remember visiting my neighbor, checking to see if she and her family needed anything(and to explore in the ash zone, lol...using my husband's respirator from work, just to cross the street. I also wore his safety goggles and long sleeves.

I also remember our garden was its best that year and the year after, too!

Hawkman, you could have shared the rest of that letter in the comment to me, but I see you were only emphasizing on what you determined as the ONLY reason that supported your statement. Dirty politics...guess you're learning from the best these days, eh???

Get the facts straight before you blow your stance out of proportion. It's all about clean water and that includes what goes in the storm drains that you CAN'T see. What I stated to Lou was fact. What you said was Benton's opinion.


Which is more credible, Hawkman?

Again I say...a fee is a fee and it comes with the territory when owning a business such as the Columbian. What's the big deal???

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 9:20 a.m.

The "big deal" is it isn't warranted. There's no proof. If you were being fined for something wouldn't you want proof of the reason? Oh, I forgot, you'd rather pay ahead in case you did something wrong. What you stated to Lou may have been fact but the fact is it had nothing to do with the charges made by Benton. What I posted was "in fact" a response by Benton, period.

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On May 18th I was at a friends house in Tigard, Oregon. Their house was up on a hill and we had a perfect view of the mountain. One month before the explosion, I had been on a "checkout dive" at Spirit Lake. Talked with Harry Truman and had lunch at his store. He was a funny guy.

Two days after the eruption I was driving a large tow truck to Spokane to pick up a stranded Consolidated Freightways truck. It had "ingested" too much ash and was DOA. On the way I had to put a nylon stocking over my air cleaner to keep the ash out (changed it several times) and in places I could only drive 25 mph to keep the dust cloud down. When I got there and located the truck a County Sheriff stopped me and told me to shut off my truck. I was going to be there until the ash, now 8" deep, got cleaned up. I got a motel room and then reported to the local Police station to help clean up. I was allowed to leave with my tow three days later.

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Hawkman, you think it's okay for less-than-desirable companies to get away with pouring their toxic crap down the storm drains and that the clean-up bill should be paid by the taxpayers while the slipshod companies get away unnoticed till several decades later??? Pay it forward, it forward.

Quite honestly, I believe this will be a good deterrent.

And not to beat a dead horse here, but...

You provided only a portion of the letter, not the entire letter which in my opinion was misleading...a typical tactic of someone who is trying to persuade another into believing their story and very typical of politicians and some sly union leaders as well. As far as I'm concerned...I believe that this "fee" was a definite blow to anybody in opposition to Benton since ICC (as well as the C's in their Crossing Project promotional habits which were far too obvious in their articles) had a lot to do with CRC and ICC makes up a sizable portion of the larger businesses in Clark County...and we ALL know who was pushing the hardest for the crossing/loo rail project now, don't we! Either way you look at it... it benefits the taxpayers paying directly for the problems that do arise but in another way...will it cause the life of some businesses???

A catch-22 I suppose. Yeah, I hate to see the new fees. Heck, we've all had new fees tacked onto our property tax bills which makes life more difficult...but it appears we have one heckuva good looking county. Now...if the city could only afford to clean up THEIR streets. For instance...weeds hip high, covering up the "Welcome to Orchards" sign when coming in from the east is not good PR business.

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"So Hawkman, you think it's okay for less-than-desirable companies to get away with pouring their toxic crap down the storm drains"

OK, I'll bite. Exactly what is the Columbian pouring down the drain and what is YOUR proof? Not some obscure report on a generic problem. I want specific proof that the Columbian is doing something sinister.

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman...did I SAY the Columbian was pouring anything down the drain? No I did not. In fact, if you go back and re-read my post on May 17, 2014 at 7:32 a.m., you will see that I stated it was a ROUTINE inspection which revealed the violation and I also stated I was sure the C took care of the problem.

Out of curiosity, does it bother you at all what happened at Boomsnub up to the '90's? Or what was discovered by the EPA in 1988 at the old Alcoa Plant? Or for that matter, at the BPA Ross Complex in '89? Or how 'bout Frontier Hard Chrome in '82?

Oh's a goodie for you...

Does it bother you the Superfund Cleanups of our drinking water systems from Well #1 from an unknown source began in 1993...not knowing how long the drinking water was contaminated??? That affected up to 20 million gallons of drinking water PER DAY to Vancouver and Clark County. BTW, that single well served in excess of 130,000 people and although a definitive source had never been identified, several dry cleaning facilities, gas stations, and other facilities in the area are still suspected contributors of ground water contamination. Not just one entity but several.

But that's okay, Hawkeye/Hawkman...the people who caused the problem...

They never got caught.

And who do you think has had to pay for that pollution in our drinking water, hawk??? (Turn on that little lightbulb in your head and finally realize it's the taxpayers, hawk.)

So why not charge a fee to the businesses BEFORE the problem metastasizes into the necessity of a "Superfund" site??? A fee that goes towards the entire process of prevention, detection and clean up??? Business owners who handle certain chemicals in the natural course of business...they have to pay into the process. That's a given, sir.

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So Mister Lou Brancaccio...if you still peek in on the forum daily...any response to my original question to you on May 17, 2014 @7:32 am??? While you're at it, why don't you check out the discussion I've been having with Hawkman since my comment to you. It might help ease the pain of the new fee for the C.

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: I may have missed your answer before due to my travels, but, did you finally buy a subscription to the C? The more the merrier, I say. Keeps them going.

Hawk: Interesting memories. How many people get to remember the aftermath of a volcano eruption? My friends posses the scariest tale I have heard yet. They were actually camping out after collecting logs for their home and decided, providentially, to load up gear and be ready to roll in the morning. When it blew, they hopped in the truck and hauled butt as fast as they could go, ahead of the ash fall.

We met Harry Truman, too, before the blast. I remember saying, "Spirit Lake is gone?" I was flabbergasted.

manthou — May 18, 2014 at 1:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 1:39 p.m.

"Hawkman...did I SAY the Columbian was pouring anything down the drain? No I did not."

Then why bring it up? The story is about the fee being charged the Columbian. Have your husband tighten up that loose screw.

Apparently you drank lots of that water.

Here's an idea, maybe you should send the State a thousand bucks or so just in case you get caught speeding or get a parking ticket or something against the law.

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

No manthou, I haven't...and I just got the notice that I only have a certain number of visits left for the month. Looks like I'm outta here again for a few days (with a couple of peek ins once in a while)...8))

BTW, I hope you enjoyed your travels wherever they took you. Take care and keep the forum hopping!

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 2:04 p.m.

Oh dang, I too was wanting to read the specific violation and specific substance involving the Columbian and an "EPA report, designating June 7, 2012...a violation of the RCRA" you specifically referred to in a previous post. You inferred it was related to stormdrains, but supposition can be misleading.

I can't speak for others, but yes it bothers me about the superfund trust fund, and it's lack of funding, political squabbling, retroactive penelties, or required cleanups. Not sure the term 'pay it forward' works here.

And, it bothers me being intentionally mislead through implication, or innuendo. That's bullying and intimidation, subtle or not. And Benton, Madore, and Mielke weren't even subtle about putting a fine on only one newspaper in Clark County. I'm a homeowner who did not purchase without understanding the mortgage, rates, fees, payoff amounts, insurances, points, etc. I pay attention to my property tax bill each and every time. I have a right to question, and to get answers, exactly why I'm paying a fee.

Businesses, even "less-than-desirable" and "slipshod" businesses that you made reference to @ 12:53 p.m. have the right to know, and know exactly HOW the decision regarding a new or additional fee is arrived at. Provide data to justify the additional fee. And, demanding comprehensive information has absolutly nothing to do with the CRC, and the CRC should have absolutly nothing to do with providing it to the business or homeowner. Just as it has nothing to do with Love Canal.

jacjak — May 18, 2014 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 2:01 p.m.

Silly Hawk. Your word game reminds me of child's play where in the game, the winning child has the last word. Go for it, little one! One more comment for you then I'm outta here. I'm sure you'll leave yet another insult or more of your witless banter and that's okay. I'm sure others will understand.

We are already paying to the state/city/county to support our policing agencies to do what we have paid them to uphold the law??? Nice try, though.

You didn't answer my question. Doesn't it bother you that it takes the EPA to discover these heavy polluters, sometimes decades after the pollution began and that some of the polluters are never charged for their damage to the ecosystem and the water we drink...and that the cost of clean up is taxpayer supported not only at the federal level but at the local level as well?

BTW...some chemicals which have been and are still used in the printing industry including newspaper publishers are:

Toluene(highly toxic, btw), MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), glycol ethers, xylene, tetrachlorethylene, MBK (methyl isobutyl ketone), methanol, TCA (1,1,1 ozone depleter), dichloromethane and ethylene glycol. Of course, that doesn't count for the polycyclic
aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and that localized exposure to the newspaper inks in lab rats (National Institute of Health) as well as humans did in fact cause primary cutaneous irritation. Of course, I won't even get into the issue of inhalation of the mist from news print ink since even OSHA cannot even determine exposure limits to black news print ink.

If you want to know the toxicity of these chemicals, you'll have to look them up.

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — May 18, 2014 at 5:12 p.m

Just what "word game" are you talking about?

As for the superfund and the EPA, those "heavy polluters" were allowed to do things twenty-thirty years ago that aren't allowed now. If you remember, they used to cover the roads with waste oil to keep the dust down, but that has nothing to do with the Columbian newspapers ending up in the storm system in Clark County, does it?

As for inks in the printing industry, I'm sure it is regulated by OSHA for safety. If they don't have a regulation for inhalation of news print ink, it must not be a problem. But I love how you try to make it sound like there is one. It's like asking someone "When did you quit beating your Wife"?

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A good Lew Waters blog taking Christian Berrigan to task for his attempt to load the Repub precincts with his neoCon Liberty Alliance friends.

roger — May 18, 2014 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has anybody kept an eye on Oregon's Republican Dr. Monica Wehby? She's made some interesting claims and others have made some interesting claims about her. She says that she wants to "Repeal Obamacare to create jobs". Any ideas how that would occur?

Now what I find interesting is her Republican opponent Jason Conger says she's in favor of Obamacare and is pro-abortion.

There's also a story about her stalking her former boyfriend and another story about her doing un-needed surgeries on children.

Hawkman — May 18, 2014 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A printing ink based on soy is available. I've no idea what the Columbian uses though I recall Lou saying theirs was eco-friendly.

Any company generating a hazardous waste must file with the Washington State Department of Ecology. The fee starts at $48.00. The company is then subject to unannounced inspections. Serious violations result in fines.

Any company emitting chemicals into the air must be licensed by the Southwest Clean Air Agency. Again, there are fees, inspections and if need be, fines. By the way, the Hilton downtown has applied for a permit (#CL-2018) to operate two natural gas pool water heaters.

My point being, companies that emit anything hazardous or dangerous (even if it is a "closed stream") already pay for the regulation of. If the law isn't followed to a tee it can get rather spendy. I know, in a previous life I was a hazardous waste materials manager.

When it comes to the storage or processes using hazardous or dangerous products both zoning and planning along with the fire department are involved.

You might note the Columbian was dinged once for a minor violation in a five year period. In my "professional opinion" that aint nothing to go screaming through the streets about.

Drift — May 19, 2014 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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