Open forum Aug 27-Sept 2

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428 comments

Comments

Goldie,

Guess you called it right last week - the storm has moved to the Gulf and grown in size. Gas prices will go up more. And then we have the big refinery fire in Venezuela. Do we still buy oil from Hugo? Doesn't matter; I'm sure it'll still affect prices. What say about another 15-20 cents per gallon this week?

roger — August 27, 2012 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana and Dee,

RE: Water.

You are REALLY going to have to start referencing your sources. Saying 100% of people us this substance? Why, I can think of a couple of people who've sworn off water years ago. The stench of unwashed body reeking of alcohol fumes is enough to let you know they're coming from a block away!

We need a cap and trade water tax. Many poisons rain down on us, carried by water molecules.

And I'm still somewhat confused over an article I ran across and posted a week or so back - about Oregon fining someone for collecting rainwater in a pond on his property. Seems water belongs to all the people; we're not supposed to bogart it for ourselves. So, then why in hell am I paying a water bill to Vancouver, one that's based on use, for something that's already mine?

roger — August 27, 2012 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Roger. I checked around on the internet and it appears we still do purchase oil from Venezuela. According to a read from YahooFinance dated sometime in February, the amount has declined. With the refinery fire there, looks like it will even more.

Regarding the storm...it's quite a wide system. Last night, they were reporting it was more than 850 miles wide. The weather forecasters are still saying Florida isn't out of the woods even if it does continue on the northwestward journey.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle (from last week's forum), I did a little research on that Dihydrogen Monoxide and you are right it is water... rainwater...actually, it's better known as acid rain. It's also known as hydric acid or dihydrogen monooxide. I don't quite understand the chemical composition as I've never been a chemistry buff, but this information is according to websites such as EPA.gov and a few other scientific sites.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*goldenoldie — August 26, 2012 at 8 p.m. (a post from last week's forum)*

*Maybe you failed to realize that this IS an opinion blog! My opinions are just that, if you don't like it, stuff it! Nobody said you HAD to respond.*

*Also, what phrases I use in my life are none of your business, I say what's on my mind and if I thought I could get away with it here, I'd tell you exactly what I think, although I don't owe anybody an explaination. Seriously, who do you think you are?*

*Trolling for attention doesn't come close, can you say faux moral outrage?*

*hawkeye — August 26, 2012 at 9:20 p.m.*

Maybe you failed to realize that this is a forum open to opinion from ***EVERYONE***, not just the select few who don't like what others have to say. Maybe you'll come to the realization that you DON'T HAVE to respond either. Maybe you'll come to the realization that you DON'T HAVE to answer any question of curiosity I have directed to you but felt compelled to respond to me since you didn't want any assumptions felled upon you which would diminish an egocentric mindset. And maybe you'll come to the realization that I share in discussions on OTHER subjects which don't include the slanted, prejudiced writes (including the statement that one president should have been assassinated rather than another...really stupid comment in my opinion) a select group must continue to throw at the rest of the crowd.

Go ahead...click "suggest removal." It wouldn't surprise me if this post was deleted, even though yours regarding President Johnson wasn't and neither were your disgusting comments towards others who disagreed with you. It's all too obvious where the slant comes from this website. Maybe that's what fires me up enough to continue to post...to fight the ignorance of a select group which plagues our county...our nation for that matter.

And guess what...you can also "IGNORE USER," but it won't stop my rebuttal to any comments directed to me by you or any of your little "hawkingit" fanatics.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 26, 2012 at 8:28 p.m (last week's forum)

Ohhh, Dana...those crickets are about to roar. They don't like it when we stand up against them....prove them otherwise??? Fuhgettabout it. Our credible resources NEVER stand up against huffy poo, media(doesn't)matter or any other politically-unbalanced source!!!

It is my opinion that unless the information is 100% verifiable by a credible source...a direct credible resource that is, any and all media outlets (Columbian included...sorry Lou)...whether they be liberally minded or right wing or any others...they're not 100% credible. For instance...this morning on two of the local news channels, they reported the swarm of earthquakes in southern California and stated 20 houses fell off their foundations. Sounds credible, right? Everyone pictures "stick-built" homes with poured foundations knocked off the foundations. It was 20 blasted manufactured homes, but that doesn't sound as sensational.

Oh, I could share a list a mile long of incredibly sensationalized news clips just from last week, but there's not enough room on this little window to illustrate my message to open the eyes of those whose blinders continue to possess that foggy film on the front.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 7:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


H2O (Dihydrogen Monoxide) is water - plain ol' water - not specifically rain water, much less acid rain. Two hydrogen atoms (di) one oxygen (mono).

It might interest you to know pure water does not conduct electricity. It is the contaminates in water that do.

I don't drink straight water. I don't care for the taste of the stuff. It's been longer than a few years ago I drank half a bottle of the stuff and it gave me heartburn. No, I'm not joking.

It's coffee (strong and sweet) from the time I rise until early afternoon. Beer across the afternoon (without becoming inebriated). I have a glass of milk with my dinner and then it's fruit juice till bed.

I said I don't drink it. I *do* bathe with it, Roger -every evening ;^)

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Drift. BTW, it is actually a misnomer by those who quote Dihydrogen monoxide, although those components are in fact, water. The actual chemical compound I believe they're speaking of is H2CO3 (sorry, couldn't do the subscript from my computer) which contains the 2 hydrogen components and one of the three oxygen components which makes up the chemical equation for water. That's as far as I'm going with that one. It's too early on a Monday for this.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning, Drift. BTW, it is actually a misnomer by those who quote Dihydrogen monoxide, although those components are in fact, water. The actual chemical compound I believe they're speaking of is H2CO3 (sorry, couldn't do the subscript from my computer) which contains the 2 hydrogen components and one of the three oxygen components which makes up the chemical equation for water. That's as far as I'm going with that one. It's too early on a Monday for this. BTW, I received my information on the website chemicalforumula.org.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops...sorry about the double post. Posting on the C this morning...slow reaction.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


RENTON, Wash. (AP)

Terrell Owens' NFL return lasted less than three weeks.

Owens was released by the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday, part of the league-mandated roster reductions from 90 to 75 players.

The 38-year-old receiver posted a message on his Twitter account shortly before 11 a.m. that he had been released and the Seahawks made the move official in the afternoon.

"I'm no longer a Seahawk," Owens tweeted. "I THANK the organization 4 the opportunity, I'm truly blessed beyond belief. My FAITH is intact & will NOT waiver."

***Whoa, that's a relief.***

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


H2CO3 is Hydrogen Carbonic, goldie. In an aqueous solution it would be carbonic acid.

Oh, and 'mornin to you, too!

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, though dihydrogen monoxide *is* technically correct it's not used in science. The dihydrogen thing originated as the hoax partially posted perviously.

The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry lists "oxydane" as the accepted option to "water."

Acid rain is a result of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions.

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey hawk, there is an extra punt here that we could send the SeaHawks

soapbox4u — August 27, 2012 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Check that spelling out!

soapbox4u — August 27, 2012 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


gun owners giving gun owners a bad name:

19 shot in Chicago Friday, 37 shot, nine killed Sat nite.

women blows hole in wall after a drunken gun safety/control meeting.

some shooting in Vanc last week, one drive-by

four army nutcases in Ga kill 2, have $87,000 worth of guns & ammo, including many semi-automatic rifles.

Even the police get in the act-all 16 injured in the shoot-out at the OK, er Empire State Bldg due to police fire.

Only in 'merica.....

mrd — August 27, 2012 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It wants to be QUEEN of the forum, all bow to the faux wannabe. Unless it has the most posts, keeps all other posts grammatically, politically and religiously correct, it will uncork.

soapbox4u — August 27, 2012 at 12:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Republican Platform 2012: Looking At The RNC's Most Extreme Positions**

"It's a symbol. It's a source of scripture if you will, in policy-making. It's a guide for voters," Clancy said. "Platforms are a window into the deeper principles and values of a party coalition."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/republican-platform-2012_n_1831907.html?utm_hp_ref=politics#slide=more246202

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yea, I've had about enough of that.

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @8:53am...

In this case, we're both right.

http://www.chemicalformula.org/acid-rain

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the young teen who died as a result from drowning at Klineline Pond.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A heads up to all you Kalama residents. According to KGW TV, the residents in the town of Kalama are under a Boil Water advisory.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden-

I like your take on Hawk- he is getting more derelict everyday in his "opinions, oh I mean "RANTS"....The Hollywood made for movie is the best documentary of the year.. Snoring......It just shows people were interested in what the movie was about.. Just like people flocking to watch someone hang...If you don't want to wait for it to come out on DVD here is a review....Movies like this and Michael Moore’s movies don't really interest me. Their opinions and we all have them. Nothing new is ever brought out or the news or a blog would have already spewed it...

http://www.sfweekly.com/2012-08-22/film/2016-obama-s-america-film-dinesh-d-souza-barack-obama-nonsense-lowlights/

Who needs a movie to tell me about the president.... Most of us already know about hope and change, this time around he can't run on his record so what's he running on???

This time around his "platform is Moving Forward", really.. Because we can't go any further backwards I guess... This country and the world for that matter can't have or take 4 more years of these two clowns.... "God willing" ...What would happen to our country should Biden have to ascend to the office of President, God help us all... Oh that’s right Obama he has his own god, hope mine talks to his... For O bama it's all about segmentation.. getting this segment worked up at the other segment.. Really taxing the wealthy is only a spit in the bucket for what he is trying to do... What everyone who is planning on there SS check someday is to get this guy out of office.. Robbing SS to help pay for his health program only shortens the existance of SS...Maybe we could all join hands and sing Cumby yaa.. That would fix everything...
If the democrats held there convention this week in Tampa the President would have proclaimed a non hurricane week proclamation and no storms would have come within a thousand miles of our coast..See he is the president and can do what he wants, oh that's a dictator that does, i get those confused with this president...Anyway i hope that everyone prays for a better job outlook, a more peaceful world.And a dinner on there plate come supper time....

vanwadreamer — August 27, 2012 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well vanwadreamer, that makes two of us who have no interest in the movie....even if someone were to give it to me, I'm not interested. I once tried to watch a Michael Moore movie...found it utterly boring and so opinionated, it was hurl material. Regarding SSI...I'm already seeing polls about raising taxes to keep SSI going. We all know where the additional money would go...and it wouldn't be to the recipients.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's truly anybody who has what it takes to lead our nation, vanwadreamer. Last time, I voted the lesser of two evils and look what it got us??? This time, if I were to vote the lesser of two evils, who's to say it will be the better choice? I can't wait for SSI. No, I'm not meaning I'm getting excited for it 11 1/2 years away...I mean I'm not going to wait around for it. I have to continue to work diligently to secure my OWN retirement...my OWN financial independence away from the system...

...and it won't be easy! It's something that everyone should devote a part of their lives to secure.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nope, goldie.

You were wrong. I was right. Rain water contains carbonic acid. Rain water ain't carbonic acid. Rain water is **not** H2CO3.

If you'll look back you'll see I mention it's the solids (contaminates) in water (H20) that make it electrically conductive. Rain water has more than H2CO3 in it. So does the water from your tap.

Pure water, however, is nothing more than two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen hanging out together. True story, man. Would you care to discuss polar covalent bonds? ;^)

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, oh! and ion exchanges!

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Drift...as I'd said before...chemistry isn't something I'm well versed in. Sometimes it's in the interpretation of the data provided (as in my case on this subject). Other times, it takes someone who has the experience, the knowledge...to explain it in general terms to those of us not as well versed in the world of chemistry.

I DID see the hoax you spoke of. All the more reason (and evidence) that we can't always believe what we read online.

Thanks for the explanation...and thanks for your patience with me.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Better living through chemistry, goldie!

I'm here to tell ya (wink, wink)!

And with this puzzle before posting thing... show of hands: How many folks glance at it and think, *Yep, I got it.* Or, *Aint no way. I hope the next one's better*?

I think I got -this- one.

Drift — August 27, 2012 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Glad you're such a help, Cap'n.

LOLOLOL...how many times I've thought I'd figured captcha out and BLAM!!!

"Comment Preview" pops up. It's been all but unanimous by those of us who post to have it fixed...

...but it's still here...good Ol' Captcha. Maybe it should be called "Caughtya" instead.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**GOLDIE**

*hawk:* for anyone to denigrate and curse where a poster's father is buried, attacks the poster again THEN crows because he's got 'the right' to do it and nobody can stop him, kinda says it all. he's the stuff i scrape off my shoes.

*politics:* obama is a fatal infection kiling the nation. biden is every family's affable drunk. romney is great at making money and being a squeaky-clean mormon. is it good enough to be leader of the free world...? let's hope so cuz there's nothing else. paul ryan? best economic ideas to come out of the dc cesspool so far. each night i pray, "God, please make the person win that's Your choice."

*Gardening:* used to live on a farm. know how to grow acres and acres of produce. doing it on a postage-stamp size of questionable dirt? i'm trying to do raised beds so at least i know what's in the soil. not easy with advancing arthritis and degeneration of knees. but nobody guaranteed me a rose garden (pathetic attempt of humor here).

having said al that, i'm tired, allergic, out of meds and facing having to cash in my meager pauper's investments. NOT a happy-dance day. laterz.

DeeLittle — August 27, 2012 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawk: for anyone to denigrate and curse where a poster's father is buried, attacks the poster again THEN crows because he's got 'the right' to do it and nobody can stop him, kinda says it all. he's the stuff i scrape off my shoes.

DeeLittle — August 27, 2012 at 3:35 p.m.

You want to reference what you are talking about, crazy lady?

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye

if that's some smarmy reply to me, save your time. you've been on ignore ever since you pulled that sh*** with my father's grave.

loser.

DeeLittle — August 27, 2012 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So much personal trash talk from conservatives today. Speaks volumes.

And you guys lay claim to Christianity....................:((

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like we need some relaxation around here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HajYcS...

roger — August 27, 2012 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nail, you would think if she had the guts to rag on me, she'd stick around to explain herself. Oh well, hit-N-run Dee. Typical drive-by.

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Expect crazy to post soon. It'll complete the sock puppet trinity. Pure gold!

Most of the time this forum offers substantive thoughts on issues from many. Not today...

...but the day isn't over! :)

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Jaod...

Now that we're relaxed?!

A little rock n roll mayhem is in order..

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, two thumbs up on the sock puppet trinity.

soapbox4u — August 27, 2012 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I noticed while out and about today that gasoline prices have risen 3 cents per gallon. Do you think this is attributed to Isaac, Venezuela or maybe, just maybe...it's the annual price hike just before Labor Day Weekend?

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle, I'm finding gardening in raised beds to be an interesting venture myself. One thing's for sure...it's easier on those who suffer from arthritis once the bed is established. This year, I utilized several large planters and grouped them along the pathway as well. Boy oh boy do I have the peppers and tomatoes this year!!! Much better than last year.

Nearby, there's a home with some raised beds and they are chocked full of different types of vegetables, tall and small. A smorgasbord of sorts.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee and Golden ---You probably already know this but 100% vinegar really works when sprayed on weeds. Vinegar is $2,00 per gallon at A-Z Liquidators in the old Paws & Claws location.

langenthal — August 27, 2012 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Langenthal, a friend of mine...a microbiologist and organic gardener...just recently shared the very same information using distilled vinegar. He also recommended I only use the vinegar spray in areas like on the curb, the driveway and walkways...keeping in mind to stay away from any ground covers, lawns and flower/vegetable gardens as vinegar will kill any vegetation.

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


6:43 That's $2.00.

langenthal — August 27, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Correct. It doesn't discriminate.

langenthal — August 27, 2012 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW langenthal...keep those tips flying. It's much appreciated by us gardeners who share notes on the forum.

For anybody on the forum...Any idea on how to "organically" stop the "no see ems" that are attacking my kale starts??? Some leaves are looking like lace. Cabbage-type crops have issues in my garden for some reason. It's not slugs. I'm thinking it's white flies or some other micro flying insects. I've tried covering the plants with Remay after spraying with insecticidal soap (organic of course), but that isn't working. I've heard by others that I should try diatomaceous earth. Anybody try it before???

goldenoldie — August 27, 2012 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK so I see gardening, running with the parody I posted, a lame "documentary", storms, and relatively little about the political cycle. (oh yea, and some jabs between people)

Must be a slow news day. I would see what I could stir, but a parody is the only thing anyone has been willing to discuss in the past few days.

Maybe you leftists are seeing some sense in what I say?

(I know, how dare I even imply such a thing)

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Amazing comments coming from GOP leaders this year. They're usually much more secretive about their views. God bless em'.

**Tom Smith, GOP Senate Candidate: Pregnancy From Rape Similar To 'Having A Baby Out Of Wedlock'**

Tom Smith, a Republican Senate candidate in Pennsylvania, speaks during an AP interview on July 19, 2012, in Philadelphia. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

Trying to distance himself from the "legitimate rape" comment that Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) made last week, Pennsylvania Senate candidate Tom Smith (R) stirred up further controversy by comparing a pregnancy caused by rape to "having a baby out of wedlock."

Smith said Monday at the Pennsylvania Press Club that although he condemns Akin's comment, he agrees with Akin that abortion should be banned without any exceptions, including for rape and incest victims. Pressed by a reporter on how he would handle a daughter or granddaughter becoming pregnant as a result of rape, Smith said he had already "lived something similar to that" in his family.

"She chose life, and I commend her for that," he said. "She knew my views. But, fortunately for me, I didn't have to ... she chose the way I thought. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't rape."

When a reporter asked Smith to clarify what kind of situation was similar to becoming pregnant from rape, the candidate responded, "Having a baby out of wedlock."

He added, "Put yourself in a father's position. Yes, it is similar."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/tom-smith-rape_n_1834234.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.ijreview.com/2012/08/13896-fcc-may-soon-tax-internet-service/

Here it is. You will now be expected to provide internet to those you see with the iPhones at the grocery store as they pay with food stamps.

Tell me this isn't socialistic.

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey, I found something extremely ironic.

In the US, the Bald Eagle is a protected species. If you are caught even touching an egg, or destroying it, you can be fined $250k, and imprisoned for up to 5 years.

But you have a protected right to abort a human baby.

Where are our priorities?

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZpi0J...

mrd/anybody @ 12:09. Excellent & thoughtful one on one with Anderson Cooper & Bill Maher. On Republican rhetoric/gun violence.

nailingit — August 27, 2012 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal



danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 8:50 p.m

Don't believe everything you can't read!

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/pending/internet2.asp

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 8:54 p.m.

Mostly because human fetuses aren't endangered species.

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Disregard the endangered part, what about the importance of the life form? How can you protect that egg as an eagle, but not acknowledge the human developing in the womb as a life? Contradicting ourselves are we?

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 9:57 p.m.

1) Your linked article discusses amounts charged by companies for dial up service, not FCC taxing access.

2) Notice the age of your article? Got anything mor current?

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 10:16 p.m

Nope, you got any proof from something other than a right wing blog?

danabwoodley — August 27, 2012 at 10:11 p.m

Sorry, you can't disregard the "endangered" part. It is what it is. And there are too many non-endangered rug rats running around on welfare. You figure out a way to control that and or pay for them yourself, and we'll talk.

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DWB, try this one. It explains it much better

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/245479-fcc-eyes-tax-on-internet-service

Also, yes, if it costs me a dollar or two a month more, I'll pay it. Anyway, what are you complaining about, you're on the government's net.

hawkeye — August 27, 2012 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Only on the gov net right now due to occupational requirements. I also have home access I use when there, and family uses always. Since when are we obliged to provide everyone with access?

But then I take exception to the use of government subsidies to many a thing. Not saying a bad idea, but only when necessary based upon uncontrollable conditions (such as recent droughts). But to collect them regularly even when business is good? More wasteful spending.

OK, so don't disregard the endangered part. How about just requiring people to take responsibility for their own actions? So, as previously acknowledged, abortion is legal. And, on paper at least, the government doesn't fund them.

But who will show me the garaunteed proof that public money provided to agencies that conduct abortions are not using money from public sources for those abortions? They keep separate accounts for funds from different sources? And federally provided policies aren't covering these procedures?

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 12:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**DANA**

ever read a book by liddell hart called 'military strategy" circa 1954?

been thinking about buying it

DeeLittle — August 28, 2012 at 2:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*new topic new topic new topic new topic new topic*

Higgs Boson.

coupla things really annoy me about this. 1st, it presumes a flat universe, with all the contents' data written on the two-diminsional plane. two?? how can something have no depth?

second, why can fermilab only see *shadows* of this alleged energy field?

and a general irritation: according to long-accepted laws of physics, matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. if that's the case, when the big bang 1st happened, matter and anti-matter were created. they collided and exploded. where'd all that energy go? dark energy and dark matter?

just stuff that keeps me occupied while trying to go to sleep ....

DeeLittle — August 28, 2012 at 2:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""Mostly because human fetuses aren't endangered species."""*

The American Bald Eagle isn't either.

..

Regarding the internet....for those of us who pay for internet services, we're already paying tax. This would be an increase in taxation which I believe the voters should have the right to make the decision, not the FCC.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 5:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — August 28, 2012 at 2:35 a.m.

The US Dept. of Energy is pretty educated in the world of physics. I'm thinking this is a theory they're working on to disprove. I could be wrong, though.

BTW...I hope you were able to get some sleep. When I started reading some of what Fermilab has going on...

I definitely have a mound of questions running through my mind regarding this group and their agenda.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 5:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ooohhhh...Dee....you've sparked my scientific curiosity with the Higgs Boson field. Some questions on my mind right now...on the FNL government website, it spoke of a visualization of Higgs Boson appearing like a vat of molasses spread across the universe and molecules would stick to it, giving mass to the basic building blocks of matter. Without it or something similar to it, we would not have existed as stated on the website I was reading.

My questions...

Was the universe just one big Higgs Boson field in the beginning or was it just a large empty void before the big bang???

What formed the void if that were the case?

Just what was the beginning of the existence of the universe?

How did the Higgs Boson field come into existence?

Could this be the scientific/religious beginning of our universe?

Someone or something had to get the ball rolling.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 6:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I know that it isn't a common thing for people to repost to here items from the FB, but I couldn't help but share this one:

B
A true WTF Moment from GA:

Un-DAMN-believable: I'm in the lobby minding my own business and waiting for the Physical Therapist (along with two other people) to call me back when a Soldier in uniform walks in. I move out of his way, as I was sitting in the seat closest to the check-in window. After signing in he sits next to me and saw that I was a military spouse when the receptionist handed back my ID. He asked where we were stationed and the usual b.s. talk began. About a minute after we stopped chatting a woman in the waiting room said: "I can't believe you military people. You're nothing but pawns sponging off the government looking for handouts and that's why you're here taking time away from people who really need PT."
To my surprise, I remained calm and kept my mouth shut, as I saw the Soldier get up. Instead of being my normal self, I stepped in between the Soldier and this ignorant woman pushing the Soldier out the front door. Wisely,
two of the larger male PT assistants were called into the waiting room until the cops arrived, which of course was a call the receptionist didn't hesitate to make. I stayed outside with the Soldier until the cops arrived.
Upon their arrival, one remained outside with us and the other went inside to speak with staff and the other person in the waiting room. Luckily, the bitch was escorted off the premises and requested to NEVER return. As it turns out, one of the physical therapists is in the Army Reserve and another's husband is in the Air Force.
The Soldier has been stationed here awhile, so knows many of the local police well. I was kind enough to share her license plate number with the Soldier who smirked and said "excellent, I have a few good friends in the local PD!"
Oh ya, I omitted the best part....the lady (in her mid 30's I would guess) was receiving welfare and had medicaid for insurance. She was arguing with the receptionist about her copay since her welfare check hadn't come in yet. I seriously don't know how I had such self control considering I never hold back anything. In the end I have to believe she will get her just deserts!

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A somewhat tangential part of dwb's position....

It seems the GOP thinks 'human life' is a states' rights issue. Which seems to harken the 1820's and seems to run rather counter to the absolutist language we're hearing.

#GOP Platform Chair: Rape A ‘Detail’ In The Abortion Debate
By Zack Beauchamp

Governor Bob McDonnell (R-VA) today claimed the issue of a rape exception to abortion was a “detail” to be left up to states and Congress. On ABC’s This Week, George Stephanopoulos confronted the Governor and Party Platform Chair with the absolutist anti-abortion language in the platform he led the development of. This was his response:
McDonnell: We’re affirming that we’re a pro-life party.The details certainly are left to Congress and, ultimately, to the states and the people on how they ratify such an amendment. More importantly, what they do at the state level.
Stephanapoulous: So is the party for a rape exception or not?
McDonnell: The party didn’t make any judgment on that. It’s a general proposition to say we support human life. The rest of the details are up to the states and the people respectively...

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/08/26/745691/gop-platform-chair-rape-a-detail-in-the-abortion-debate/

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#6 Right-Wing Zealots and the Crazy Ideas Behind the Most Outrageous Republican Platform Ever:
They're breaking out the crazy down in Tampa.

Kris Kobach

The official 2012 Republican Party platform is a far-right fever dream, a compilation of pouting, posturing and policies to meet just about every demand from the overlapping Religious Right, Tea Party, corporate, and neo-conservative wings of the GOP. If moderates have any influence in today’s Republican Party, you wouldn’t know it by reading the platform. Efforts by a few delegates to insert language favoring civil unions, comprehensive sex education and voting rights for the District of Columbia, for example, were all shot down. Making the rounds of right-wing pre-convention events on Sunday, Rep. Michele Bachmann gushed about the platform’s right-wing tilt, telling fired-up Tea Partiers that “the Tea Party has been all over that platform.”

Given the Republican Party’s hard lurch to the right, which intensified after the election of Barack Obama, the “most conservative ever” platform is not terribly surprising. But it didn’t just happen on its own. Here are some of the people we can thank on the domestic policy front.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/6-right-wing-zealots-and-crazy-ideas-behind-most-outrageous-republican-platform-ever

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 7:18 a.m.

Dana...if you've ever watched any Bill Engvall comedy skit before, then you'd be quite familiar with the phrase....

wait for it....

"HERE'S Your Sign!!!"

It never ceases to amaze me what we hear these days!!!

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 7:50 a.m.

You are thinking that dwb's uncited story is true?

That story sounds way too much like the stuff that Bob and Ray and Lew used to spout here ....

None could bring a single shred of evidence to support their stories; let's see dwb shine a light on this story's origins.

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Romney's Forces Are In Control For Now, But Maybe Not For Long

At this convention, dissenters and discontents can cause a murmur but they cannot disrupt the flow. The mainstream of 2012 wants to walk through the convention business items without breaking stride. They want to project a united front against President Obama and they don't want a contentious convention clouding the prospects of their ticket.

This emphasis on party unity will prevail for the same reason Romney prevailed in the primary season — no single challenger had enough resources to stop the man from Massachusetts. Here in Tampa, no single candidate has nearly enough supporters to mount an effective resistance.

But if they are losing the battle, the insurgents sense they are winning the larger war. Like the Tea Party that rose and ruled in 2010, the elements of the GOP dissatisfied with Romney are busily redefining the party's future.

Not so long ago, the Republican family feud pitted the Eastern establishment (often pilloried as Eastern liberals or moderates) against "Western" conservatives who dominated the party from Ohio to the Pacific.

The split was the party's historic Achilles heel. The classic instance came exactly 100 years ago, when former President Theodore Roosevelt of New York sought to dislodge his own successor, incumbent President William Howard Taft of Ohio, as the Republican nominee in 1912. When he failed, Roosevelt launched a third party candidacy that split the GOP and allowed Woodrow Wilson to become the second of just two Democrats elected president between the 1850s and the 1930s.

Forty years later, that bitter memory was revisited by Taft's son, Sen. Robert A. Taft of Ohio. The conservative favorite of that era, Taft was eclipsed by war hero Dwight Eisenhower, the candidate of the establishment, at the convention of 1952.

Since then, however, the trend has favored the Westerners and an ever-more-stringent version of conservative ideology. In 1964, they nominated Barry Goldwater, a senator from Arizona known for his uncompromising stands and style. Goldwater lost badly to incumbent President Lyndon Johnson that fall, but his nomination signaled the rise of a new order and foreshadowed a national realignment.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/npr-romneys-forces-are-in-control-for-now-but-maybe-not-for-long/

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 7:18 a.m.

I think you've been had. Just another "story".

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Republicans are pitching their tax overhaul plan on the appeal of lower rates and a simpler system -- and figuring that voters won't mind the lack of details about the potential pain.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan and U.S. House members don't say what tax breaks they would limit or eliminate to offset the more than $4 trillion cost of cutting individual and corporate income tax rates. The approach lets Republicans deflect criticism now and iron out the specifics after the election.

"We have to have something broad enough that sets our principles in play but understand that when push comes to shove, we're going to have a process in place to fill in the blanks," said Representative Patrick Tiberi, an Ohio Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

Republicans would need to retain their House majority while winning control of the Senate and taking the presidency in the Nov. 6 election to control the overhaul of the tax system that's a major part of their 2013 agenda. The details that Romney and Ryan have refused to offer are the ones that could provoke the most objections from voters, companies and members of Congress.

Proposing cutbacks in tax breaks for charitable contributions, mortgage interest and employer-provided health insurance could mobilize well-organized opponents, said Phil English, a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republicans-dodge-tax-details-while-131720119.html?l=1

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Through a green glass, darkly: How climate will reshape American history

By Wen Stephenson

Standing amid the Permian Basin oil fields in New Mexico last week, Mitt Romney announced an energy plan that takes “Drill, Baby, Drill” to a whole new level. Handing states control over oil, gas, and coal extraction on historically protected federal lands, he chucked a century of bipartisan policy going back to Teddy Roosevelt. For Mitt, it’s “speak politely and carry a big drill.”

The moment reminded us — as you can bet we’ll be reminded again this week when the GOP convenes in Tampa — what the Romney campaign, to a large extent, is really about: the untrammeled freedom to extract wealth from the commons, whatever the costs to current and future generations.

http://grist.org/politics/through-a-green-glass-darkly-how-climate-will-reshape-american-history/

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My God this thread has had the mud tracked in by a few lately. Wow! BTW I didn't think the B word was acceptable in this forum.

I guess when folks lack substance and center, they'll spread anything and everything to gain attention. Of course the conspiracy nuts will glom on to them. This is what the right does.

Anyone check out Limbaugh's latest conspiracy?

**Rush Limbaugh Alleges Obama Tampered With Isaac Forecasts To Get GOP To Cancel Convention**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/rush-limbaugh-isaac-obama-convention_n_1835674.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir;=Politics

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*You are thinking that dwb's uncited story is true?*

Makin' assumptions without merit again are ye???

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, Mr_Basil_Seal, I'd be more than happy to oblige you with video clips ***AND*** written articles from local and national news sources which clearly depict very similar issues...

Any time!!!

*BUT*...since you are in disbelief of what another person says without one of your "preferred" sources on the list of "supported evidence..."

I won't waste my time. Nice try, though.

BTW, all you have to do is park your back side on a bench in good ol' Westfield Shopping Center or even while awaiting for your turn at a medical or dental office and observe. Although what DBW had stated in his comment for which you are in disbelief is not without evidence at the time I write this comment, I am not...especially since I have heard similar comments many times...sometimes while waiting to pay for my groceries. Open your eyes and ears, man.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.

see: goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.

BTW, you don't have to verify dwb's anecdotal story. If dwb wants to add some veracity, that's dwb's choice.

Though, of course - just as I have asked Ray and Bob and Lew - if there is valid evidence of those claims, this would be a good time for either of you to bring forward what you consider proof.

Otherwise, all we are seeing is the same unsupportable - designed for the ill, un, and misinformed - rwtp.

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More important than the silly arguments going on here:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/allens-good-food-revolution-10682786

Captcha says: diets.....

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal



#Life altering planetary experience

By David Suzuki with Faisal Moola

Humans appeared during the last moment of evolutionary time, perhaps 150,000 years ago. For most of our brief existence, we were tribal animals who didn't even know whether other humans lived on the other side of an ocean, desert, or mountain. We only had to worry about our own territory and tribe.

Suddenly, we have become a geological force, the most prolific mammal on the planet, endowed with powerful technologies, impelled by an insatiable appetite for stuff, and supplied by a global economy. Taken together, our numbers, technology, consumption, and global economy have made us a new kind of force on the planet. For the first time, we must ask, "What is the collective impact of 6.8 billion human beings?" As we begin to answer that question, we are left with the extreme difficulty of responding to global threats that our own activity has caused.

Many people harbour an understandable tendency to deny the reality of the crisis in the biosphere. After all, how can puny humans have such a massive impact on this large planet? Some also maintain a conceit that we can manage our way out of the mess, increasingly with heroic interventions of technology. But we've learned from past technologies — nuclear power, DDT, CFCs — that we don't know enough about how the world works to anticipate and minimize unexpected consequences.

The truth is that the only factor or species we can manage on Earth is us. We have no choice but to address the challenge of bringing our cities, energy needs, agriculture, fishing fleets, mines, and so on into balance with the factors that support all life. This crisis can become an opportunity if we seize it and get on with finding solutions.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/blogs/science-matters/2009/10/life-altering-planetary-experience/

mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**More important than the silly arguments going on here:**

So true mr_basil_seal.

---

A bit of info to anyone who cares. This latest DBW snag is sourced at a RWTP religious discussion @ http://whotalking.com/facebook/Becky. Just a crazy story the right invents to shore up biased feelings.

If someone wants to source a post, (i.e. "crazy's" post last week that was a cut & paste from a Glenn Beck Blaze site) just cut & paste a quote from it and paste it in your search window (google it). More times than not it will come up and can be sourced.

Hopefully this tip will cut down on some of the fringe garbage our forum has been exposed to as of late.

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 28, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.

Unbelievable...a typical lwtp!!! Yep, that's what it is!!! Maybe I read it on Fox News...or maybe a conservative website. No wait...maybe ol' Mittster was quoted as saying it before the RNC or GW or GHW said it while they were in office. Oh it must be true because....

Well, just because!

Care to provide evidence that what DBW OR anything I have stated in the two links you highlighted in your comment to me as false information. Ahhh, but wait. It's the requirement of the people supposedly speaking in rwtp's to do the job for those who spout out the lwtp's expect of them due to the lw's own lack of research capabilities and lackadaisical nature when it comes to getting the job done. Instead, those with lwtp's would rather post links...links from sites which clearly work with a slant in their favor.

Say what...???

Note how ridiculous the rwtp versus lwtp argument sounds! Just a bit of medicine for those stuck in the rut of argument without substance; leading to the usual label of a certain type of talking point; utilizing it as a method of attempting to diminish credibility by the other POV!!

I hate to break it to ya, Basil...No RWTP's, to LWTP's, no CTP's, no ITP's...none of those, just TP. Someone has to clean it up you know. BTW, I'm speaking from a human talking point.

Sometimes a discussion with some of you on this forum is about as exciting as watching a sleeping dog.

Sarcasm ended.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"Hopefully this tip will cut down on some of the fringe garbage our forum has been exposed to as of late."*

You sure about that???

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On another note...

Basil...good video at 10:16.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*You sure about that???*

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.

"Hopefully", this clears your question up.

hope·ful·ly adv \ˈhōp-fə-lē\

Definition of HOPEFULLY

1
: in a hopeful manner
2
: it is hoped : I hope : we hope
See hopefully defined for English-language learners »
See hopefully defined for kids »
Usage Discussion of HOPEFULLY

In the 1960s the second sense of hopefully, which dates to the early 18th century and had been in fairly widespread use since at least the 1930s, underwent a surge in popularity. A surge of criticism followed in reaction, but the criticism took no account of the grammar of adverbs. Hopefully in its second sense is a member of a class of adverbs known as disjuncts. Disjuncts serve as a means by which the author or speaker can comment directly to the reader or hearer usually on the content of the sentence to which they are attached. Many other adverbs (as interestingly, frankly, clearly, luckily, unfortunately) are similarly used; most are so ordinary as to excite no comment or interest whatsoever. The second sense of hopefully is entirely standard.
Examples of HOPEFULLY

They gazed up at us hopefully.
Hopefully, things will get better soon.
First Known Use of HOPEFULLY

1593
Learn More About HOPEFULLY

Spanish-English Dictionary: Translation of "hopefully"
Browse

Next Word in the Dictionary: hopeite
Previous Word in the Dictionary: hopeful (noun)
All Words Near: hopefully
Seen & Heard

What made you want to look up hopefully? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hopefully

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well then...how about this one -

*HOPEFULLY* some of the fringe garbage from *all* talking points will be reduced.

Works for me...included especially are those needless dictionary definitions which take up more space than ten USEFUL comments.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey...I've got an idea...since there's obviously a division of society based on political views, why not ship all Democrats east of the Mississippi and retain all Republicans on the west side!!! We can have TWO nations rather than one!!!

Heck, that won't work. There's too many Conservatives on both sides of the ticket.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Abandoning the pretense of caring about facts

[clipped]
Romney pollster Neil Newhouse added, "[W]e're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers."

Right. So, in early August, Team Romney believed "the various fact-checkers" should be the arbiters of rhetorical propriety, but in late August, Team Romney believes they're irrelevant.

It's important to realize there is no modern precedent for a presidential candidate rejecting the premise that facts matter. Mitt Romney is trying something no one has ever seen -- he's deemed the truth to be an inconvenient nuisance, which Romney will ignore, without shame, to advance his ambitions for vast power.

If you don't find that frightening, you're not paying close enough attention. [clipped]

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/28/13528235-abandoning-the-pretense-of-caring-about-facts?lite

langenthal — August 28, 2012 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Even right wing hero's condemn Romney with his lack of "fact checking". Some would say outright lying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cQz5ocvPBM

Does anyone trust this guy?

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I was approached this morning by a neighbor that asked if I knew of this,

"US Troops deployed to Africa"

Since I hadn't I went searching, found this:

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/565-Kentucky-soldiers-prepare-to-deploy-to-Africa-167601355.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm;_medium=twitter

I didn't know we were setting up another theater in yet another country that we don't need to be in.

ELISI — August 28, 2012 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We've been deploying troops to support Africa in support of Africom for several years now.

This has been in the news for quite some time...

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Meant to say...We've been deploying troops to Africa in support of Africom for several years now.

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**GOLDIE AND HIGGS**

i like to pretend those fermi guys really have detected the higgs, cuz that lets me ponder it's use in tomorrow's word.

just think. if we can control the matter field, we can build HUGE ships tat can simply go weightless, and slip *through* objects in it's path.

and we could actually travel to the bottom of a mega black hole, and research what's there.

no more traffic. no more crashes, just individual strings passing through each others' structures.

mind boggles. but in a good way.

DeeLittle — August 28, 2012 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Hoping for Change + Romney wins the presidency..Only way this country can get back on the road to recovery..
Obama= Failure...too many to list but how about a couple that come to mind..
Cut deficit in half first 2 years of presidency
said would bring both parties together as the only person who could..
Oh yeah he created the Dream act as one of his accomplisnments..he also had the US Credit rating downgraded, and has yet to bring to the table a balanced budget.. that will never happen while he is president... mainly because of Obamacare.. Evry middle class person will be strapped with a tax bill at the end of the year come 2014.. I'm sure you and hawk won't mind paying my portion will ya...

Just a few things this president has done well...

How about the speakers he has lined up for the D convention..Why do you think he is having these speakers ..

sandra Fluke, Jennifer Granholm, Barbara Lee, Nancy Keenan
Lilly Ledbetter just to name a few....Looks like he needs the womens vote and oh yeah Eva Longoria.. the female latino Vote...and on and on.. just further proof of his desire to divide everyone by Race or belief

the Republican Platform should be **"HOPING FOR CHANGE"**

vanwadreamer — August 28, 2012 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**The Fox convention**

The typical “Fox cycle” goes like this: After first picking up misinformation from a conservative source and repeating it ad nauseam on the network, Fox would then criticize other networks for refusing to broadcast it. Feeling pressure, mainstream sources would then echo Fox News, while praising the network for being out front on the issue. Finally, the item would be debunked — but the correction would never receive the same full-throated coverage.

This year, though, the misinformation that Fox News produces is also being delivered directly to a mainstream audience in the form of attack ads — often funded through a super PAC aligned with Fox contributor Karl Rove or by Mitt Romney’s campaign itself.
The entire theme of tonight’s Republican convention session, “We Built It,” is inspired by a lie produced by Fox News. The idea that President Barack Obama said to small business owners, “you didn’t build that,” is a fabrication concocted through deceptive editing. What the president actually said, was “somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80255.html#ixzz24sCMScEU

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5...

One man's opinion.

Drift — August 28, 2012 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 28, 2012 at 2:18 p.m

DAMN RIGHT!

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Excellent vid Drift!

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I want THAT GUY for President!

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6...

Here's the clip from "If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that" speech. It correlates well with the vid @ 2:18.

If Romney wins, it's because many push away truth. One can only wonder why...

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"If the business owner didn't build that business then who the hell did? It sure wasn't the government nor customers that did the labor, or worked the hours, or provided the ideas"

crazytrain — August 28, 2012 at 1:21 p.m.

Seriously? If you've got a business and no customers, how long do you think you'd survive? If you've got a business and no roads to it, how long do you think you'd survive? If you've got a business and there isn't any electricity...... well you get the idea.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If Romney wins (which I doubt) it will be because of the gross hypocrisy of our current President. There is not enough substantive difference between these two for it to be anything else.

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It takes a person with their heart in business ownership to start a business, number one. They must first generate a business plan to start a business, number two. Number three, it usually takes funding to invest in the business. For some, it is through grants, loans or other means. Some businesses actually start with nothing...basically starting with the idea, then build up the business from the bottom. It takes marketability...marketing skills to bring your business to attention...and it doesn't necessarily include the internet, although that would be a possibility farther down the road. In order to make a profit, that is the time the customers play a roll in the game. Once your business takes off, then there's the likelihood that you will have to hire employees in order to keep up with customer demand.

But all in all...in the beginning...it is the person, NOT others who take that first step to get started.

Regarding Obama's speech...nice one, but you also have to listen to his message. He's saying successful people didn't get that way on their own. Someone had to teach you from the beginning.

Not always true. I've heard of stories about elementary school dropouts who have managed to start and run their own successful businesses BECAUSE they had the right mindset and had utilized the space between their ears for the job. I believe Milton Hershey is a good example. All it took was an incredible sweet tooth.

Ah yes...then there's those who are 100% successful in their lives and they haven't spent or earned a dime. It's called the business of bartering.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @3:16 pm...

We're doomed I tell ya, we're doomed (not really...just teasin').

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Paul didn’t win a single presidential primary but he got 190 delegate votes during the roll call of states that officially nominated Romney Tuesday. Romney got 2,061.

Oh well fro, maybe next time.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't know that I put much stock in the Big Bang theory. I've reservations. I've reservations about the Higgs as well.

Oh sure, folks claim the "background radiation" is the smoking gun when it comes to the Big Bang. I ponder cause and causation. I ponder why it is humankind is fixed upon beginnings and ends. I don't believe in either.

The Higgs is nothing more than an Easter egg IMHO. Gravity is a mystery. No one knows exactly what it is. Yes, a person can run the calcs and predict the effect one mass will have on another. Eistein used his theories to show the path of Mercury through the Solar system and nailed it.

But what *is* it?

Here's a mind experiment for you:
Say I could reach out and pluck the Sun from the center of or system. Whoosh, gone. It would take about eight minutes before its rays quit falling upon the earth. How long would it take before the planet just went off on its merry way into the galaxy?

There isn't a physicist on the planet who can answer that question - What is the speed of gravity?

"Time is neither gained nor lost in the universe." Cap'n Drift, 8-29-12

Drift — August 28, 2012 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It must be great to be an expert at everything.

soapbox4u — August 28, 2012 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 28, 2012 at 4:27 p.m.

The planets would instantly start moving in straight lines, without the centripetal force caused by the mass of the sun.

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gravity is not a wave or energy like light or sound, it is the warping of space time caused by the mass of an object, take away the mass and the warping stops instantly.

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a circus! :))) Check out the vids...GOP=**G**rumpy **O**ld **P**osers!

**Ron Paul Delegates Cause Mayhem At Republican Convention [VIDEO]**

TAMPA, Fla. -- A divided Republican Party was on full display Tuesday when Rep. Ron Paul's (R-Texas) supporters and other grassroots activists loudly booed House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on the first full day of the Republican National Convention.

Twenty Paul backers from Maine were also stripped of their spots as official delegates after the RNC concluded that their election was invalid.

On Tuesday afternoon, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) called for a full delegation vote on the rules, including the ones the Paul backers opposed. The voice vote of ayes and nays were equal in volume, but Boehner immediately gave it to the ayes, leading to loud boos and shouts from Paul supporters.

The dismissed Maine delegation was easy to spot on Tuesday. They were all wearing white baseball caps that read "Maine 2012" and had a picture of Paul. Before the vote on the rules, Paul supporters would frequently interrupt the proceedings with shouts of "Seat them now" (referring to the Maine delegation), "We were robbed," "President Paul" and "Point of order."

After the vote, Paul supporters took to the hallways outside the main convention area and continued shouting and talking to reporters about how they believed they were robbed. Several of them said they may not support Romney -- and it could cause problems for Republicans in the fall.

"After the way they treated us, treated the state of Maine, treated us Republicans, they should be worried about how this is going to affect the election," said Erin Gail, a stripped Maine delegate.

"This is a sign this man [Romney] will take our country down a much worse path than the guy who is currently in office. And I can't stand the guy who is currently in office," said John Jones, another rejected Maine delegate.

Paul is with his backers, all the way. He is not speaking at the convention this year, because he denied the RNC's two conditions: that he allow his remarks to be vetted by RNC officials and that he fully endorse Romney.

“It wouldn't be my speech,” Paul told The New York Times. "That would undo everything I've done in the last 30 years. I don't fully endorse him for president."

On Tuesday, Paul told Fox News host Neil Cavuto that he was "undecided" on whether he would vote for Romney.

Read more @

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/ron-paul-republican-convention_n_1837556.html

LOL!

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Queue the circus music!!!

Anybody ever wonder why Donkeys represent the Democratic Party and Elephants represent the Republican Party? There's an old saying that comes to mind...

A rose by any other name...

Poor donkeys. They don't get *no* respect!!! Quite protective, they are stubborn, independent little fellas...and so gosh darned cute, too (the REAL donkeys).

On the flip side...elephants are known to have impeccable memory and utilize that skill to their benefit. They cooperate and also lend a helping "trunk" when needed. They protect their family from danger and are forever faithful to help other elephants in need.

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit --- However, Rand Paul will be speaking. Right? Deal? No deal?

After 30 years in the government, Ron Paul can hand over his funds to Rand & go off to TX & retire comfortably. Rand Paul can continue the family business.
[I can't forget the interview with Rand Paul and Rachel Maddow.]

langenthal — August 28, 2012 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Ron Paul...

rather redundant, eh???

goldenoldie — August 28, 2012 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal- I was thinking along these lines earlier. Looked up how much Paul raked in this his latest campaign. It wasn't easy for me to source but I think upwards of 30 million bucks. Then he drops his supporters like a bad date.

And these same folks most likely will be writing him checks after he's dead. Hard to understand, but I guess these folks just need a hero, as well as someone to validate their primitive belief system.

Ron Paul=Life long politician/fraud.

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh crazy train you are still the little engine that couldn't.

soapbox4u — August 28, 2012 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Although crazy,all of your three friends using the keyboard probably couldn't either. Eh??? Son!!!

soapbox4u — August 28, 2012 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yo, soap...

Nice set of choppers you got there.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 6:51 p.m.

" It wasn't easy for me to source"

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?CID=N00005906

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Queen Ann is speaking!

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In reply to frobert — August 28, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.

So then, fro, you're saying the speed (force) of gravity is faster than light?

Big Al says you can't do that. Are you saying Al is wrong? I'm quite fine with that. I would, however, like to see your "work." ;^)

Drift — August 28, 2012 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 28, 2012 at 7:27 p.m.

Al's "speed limit" doesn't apply to space, only to particles moving through it.

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Chris Christie @ the helm! My God this is nuts! He's eating the podium!!

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


the GOP convention will coronate Romney with a lot of BS about how great he'll be as prez, and the Dems will do the same in about a week. It's all theatrics as both candidates will obey their masters that have bought and paid for them. We'll simply hear their pandering hoping to get enough votes to "win" the office they seek in order to serve their masters. As for us, it won't make a damn bit of difference. As GO said, "sigh....."

mrd — August 28, 2012 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


GO-

As I have noted before, apparently listening to others, and sharing personal experiences are not sufficient evidence. You have to cite a "credible source" (defined as a source that aligns with the sycophant's beliefs).

But I suppose that those on here who spout their vile words yet respond indignantly when you give an argument that makes sense (with or without sources) will only be satisfified when the entire world is nothing but an army of sycophantic automatons that repeat their talking points as original thought. When we all are willing to bow down to the appointed savior and follow the chosen one as he leads us all off the cliff into oblivion.

Well I can promise all that so long as I live, at least one hold out will remain. The one who will refuse to be taken in by the hateful rhetoric that is cited as a "credible source".

Sorry, regardless of their resume, I don't see how Bill Maher or Rachel Maddow can be credible. And Huff Po? They only post from other agencies when the material aligns with their agenda.

It was stated before I have an agenda, and you are right. With luck, enough out there are willing to join me in standing up to the sycophants, and not allow them to determine the course of this nation.

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**LOL!!** A new definition for bizarre!

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I hear that at the DNC, they will focus on the how the GOP lacks a respect for women.

Anyone find it ironic that the keynote speaker will be Mr. William Jefferson Clinton?

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 8:51 p.m

Why do you find that odd? Bill likes women. Not like R & R. Of course, Romney doesn't really know what he likes until someone tells him and then it's only for that moment.

As far as sycophants go, seems you suck up just as much as anybody.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**DANA**

for the d's....no. remember the lessons by orwell?

DeeLittle — August 28, 2012 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Christie was wearing make-up. Funny how smooooooth his skin looked.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


yes, the mark of a true sycophant. when someone points it out, accuse them of the same. afterall, if they disagree with you, they are incapable of independent thought.

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Duh, I don't know anything.... I just listen to DWB, he knows everything and is in charge. He's my hero, I don't know anything, I will do whatever he tells me to do because he knows all.

***NOT kma***

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


sarcasm is not becoming you hawk. but you seem to be almost militantly left.

danabwoodley — August 28, 2012 at 10:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, don't start sucking up to me now. You silly sycophant, you.

It ain't gonna happen.

Yup, I'm totally radical left wing, a liberal.... Ooooooo watch out, talking to me can rub off on you. Look what I did to nailingit. Before you came around he was a Reagan supporter. Stay away!!! Warning!!!Warning!!!!

Hey Hill, you still there? Do something about this captcha thing will you? It takes at least TEN redos to get something readable. This is getting stupid.

hawkeye — August 28, 2012 at 10:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Huntsman scolds GOP for losing focus, will skip convention**

He won’t attend convention until party can “put our country before politics.”

Washington • Still smarting from his unsuccessful presidential campaign, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman won’t attend next month’s Republican National Convention or future GOP gatherings until the party starts to tackle the "bigger" issues.

Huntsman, who says he has been at every convention since 1984 when he was a delegate for Ronald Reagan, told The Salt Lake Tribune in a statement that he’s been asked repeatedly whether he would attend the August convention in Tampa, Fla., but noted that he is skipping it.

*"I will not be attending this year’s convention, nor any Republican convention in the future," Huntsman said, "until the party focuses on a bigger, bolder, more confident future for the United States — a future based on problem solving, inclusiveness, and a willingness to address the trust deficit, which is every bit as corrosive as our fiscal and economic deficits."*

Huntsman had racked up two national delegates with his third-place finish in New Hampshire and another from the Texas primary, a point that could have guaranteed him a speaking role. But Huntsman has released those delegates to Mitt Romney and endorsed the now-presumptive nominee.

The former Utah governor was uninvited to a Republican National Committee event in Florida in March after he suggested that the nation needed a third-party candidate who offered an alternative to the Republican and Democratic options.

In a statement this week, Huntsman said he wanted his party to return to its moorings that mirrored his last-minute campaign theme of "Country First."

"I encourage a return to the party we have been in the past," he said, "from Lincoln right on through to Reagan, that was always willing to put our country before politics."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/54442102-90/huntsman-convention-party-national.html.csp

nailingit — August 28, 2012 at 11:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I was once a liberal. I thought that the republican party was going to be our downfall. Of course, my only point of reference I used in formulating that opinion was Nixon.

But then I studied. And I lived. And I became things I wasn't before.

I became a father. I became a worker. I became a taxpayer.

I realized that being a liberal wasn't such a good choice. If I wanted to be something better than what I was born into, I had to make changes.

Being conservative wasn't the be all end all of changes. It does, however, reflect my views in morality. I do have some opinions that are more reflective in liberals, but not many.

I am not saying that my view of morality is the truth that all should live by. But it is what I hope to pass to my children.

Brand me as you will. If you feel I am a sycophant, so be it. I am just glad that I am not living to please you.

danabwoodley — August 29, 2012 at 1 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Thank you, Bill Nye, for slamming creationism
Posted by Sharon Pian Chan

Thank you to Bill Nye, for slamming creationism.

Nye, a scientist who hosts television shows on PBS, The Science Channel, and Planet Green, spoke in a video posted Thursday by Big Think, a website that features scientists, academics and other experts.

"If you want to deny evolution and live in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that's fine, but don't make your kids do it," Nye said in the video. "Because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems."

Nye got his start on television in Seattle at the comedy show "Almost Live" and KING5. He has also written several children's books about science.

His video is refreshing gush of fact-based discourse. It's a welcome contrast to Missouri senatorial candidate Todd Akin, who believed that in cases of "legitimate rape," a woman's uterus can assume battle stations and block pregnancies.

There are not two sides to the story of how we came to be. Parents who deny their children the knowledge of evolution would be castigated if they denied their children the benefits of vaccines, antibiotics and pasteurized milk. Those are also products of scientific research.

Here is the video, which has been viewed 1.7 million times since it was posted Thursday.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/edcetera/2019008052_bill-nye-creationism.html

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#The Hologram: Financial Speculation and Casino Capitalism
By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Book Review

Dave Eggers’ gem of a book, “A Hologram for the King,” is a parable about the decadence, fragility and heartlessness of late, decayed corporate capitalism. It is about the small, largely colorless men and women who serve as managers in our suicidal outsourcing of manufacturing jobs and the methodical breaking of labor unions. It is about the lie of globalization, a lie that impoverishes us all to increase corporate profits.

“A Hologram for the King” tells the story of Alan, a lackluster 54-year-old consultant who is desperately trying to snag one final big contract in Saudi Arabia for Reliant, a corporation that is “the largest I.T. supplier in the world,” to save himself from financial ruin. Alan has come to realize that managers like him who made outsourcing possible will be discarded as human refuse now that the process is complete, left to wander like ghosts—or holograms—among the ruins. And Eggers’ novel is a subtle, deft and poignant look at the horrendous toll this corporate process takes on self-esteem, on family, on health, on community and finally on the nation itself. It does so, like parables from Greek tragedy or George Orwell, by finding the perfect story to make a point that is universal.
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11205-the-hologram-financial-speculation-and-casino-capitalism

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


funny how the R's were for things-under Bush-and against the same things-under Obama, but of course, they're not playing politics because well, er, ah, they just wouldn't let things go to hell in a handbasket just to win an election, would they?

First, and most familiarly, no one makes the case against stimulus spending more clearly than Paul Ryan in 2010:

Too many are searching for answers in the discredited economic playbook of borrow and spend Keynesian policies. I reject the false premise that only forceful and sustained government intervention in the economy can secure this country's renewed prosperity. Adherence to this premise has given us a damaging policy mixture that has sparked [a] government spending spree and borrowing binge with no end in sight. Workers, taxpayers and families across this country have been guinea pigs in this neo-Keynesian experiment long enough. The results are in. Washington's economic experiment has failed.

But then again, no one makes the case for stimulus spending more clearly than Paul Ryan:

What we're trying to accomplish today with the passage of this third stimulus package is to create jobs and help the unemployed...

What we're trying to accomplish here is to pass the kinds of legislation that when they've passed in the past have grown the economy and gotten people back to work. We want to make it easier for employers to keep people employed. We want to make it easier for employers to invest in their business, to invest in their employees and to hire people back to work. And on top of that, for people who have lost their jobs, we want to help them with their unemployment insurance and with health insurance...

What we're trying to accomplish here is the recognition of the fact that in recessions, unemployment lags on well after a recovery has taken place.


That's Ryan in 2002, supporting a third round of stimulus spending under George W Bush.

mrd — August 29, 2012 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...as one who believes in the beginning of humankind by the glorious act of God, I also believe in evolution. The Big Bang and all the theoretical standpoints interest me yet certain questions have not been answered. I'm speaking of the beginning of existence...the "Void" so to speak and how life came to be. According to the Higgs Boson theory, Higgs Boson appeared like molasses in a vat, spread across the universe.

Okay...I can understand that, but what made it appear??? Or who made it appear???

Honestly, I believe the beginning of existence had to come from somewhere or some thing. It wouldn't just fill in a void without some kind of assistance. Would OR could God be the beginning of existence??? That wouldn't make complete sense because the question of the day would be...how did God come to be? The humans of the world have labeled God as a humanlike entity...but maybe God is that "molasses" substance...then again, maybe not.

Could there be a parallel universe not yet detected by scientists across the globe? For all we know, God was the scientist from that parallel universe who got the ball rolling for our universe. And the black hole...could be the portal to that other universe. You just never know.

It's so easy to understand now where folks like Gene Roddenberry and other fantastic sci-fi writers got their creativity. It all started in the beginning, wouldn't you say???

And yes, queue the Twilight Zone music.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Funny....

My first captcha of the morning was "beliefs Hiram."

Too funny...and it was so easy to read, too!!!

The power of prayer???.........8)

And the one for this post...

"converting" then some jibberish.

Anybody think this Captcha has a bit of social engineering behind it???

Funny!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Honestly, I believe the beginning of existence had to come from somewhere or some thing.*

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:21 a.m.

It's turtles.

All the way down.

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Turtles???

Funny, Basil.

No real answer yet, huh?

Just thought I'd see what your perspective was on the subject and all I got was...

Turtles???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift —

Al's "speed limit" doesn't apply to space, only to particles moving through it.

frobert — August 28, 2012 at 7:30 p.m.

I suppose that works, if you accept the standard model gravity is the result of mass displacing space. As I insinuated previously, I question that hypothesis.

In my mind it's a bit of a copout. It does not explain gravity. The mass/space thing merely gives us the tools to predict gravity's effect.

No one really knows what gravity is. Take a look at "graviton" and "string theory." What about the proposed Higgs? Is gravity a wave? Al's theory of general relativity points to gravitational radiation.

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just thought I'd see what your perspective was on the subject and all I got was...

Turtles???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:36 a.m.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_...

;^)

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 8:36 a.m

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_...

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS...

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't have an hour right now. Though I'll darn sure find time later to watch that vid, basil. Seven minutes in and I'm intrigued...

Thanks!

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys got it all wrong. This is the whole story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybpR5B...

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Thanks nail, I didn't know about the dragons.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 29, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.

I have to disagree, eclipse observations confirmed the warping of space caused by our sun, and thereby validating the theory.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


and a bit closer to home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AKb-p...

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We are getting so many windows into these voter ID laws, one can only surmise it's a glass house.

**Alan Clemmons, South Carolina Rep, Admits 'Poorly Considered' Reply To Racist Email On Voter ID Law**

The email continued, saying that all the state legislature would have to do is give "a hundred dollar bill away if you came down with a voter ID card, and you would see how fast they got voter ID cards with their picture."

**"It would be like a swarm of bees going after a watermelon," read the email.**

**In response to the email, Clemmons acknowledged that he wrote, "Amen, Ed. Thank you for your support of voter ID."** Clemmons said his words were a "poorly considered response," written from an iPhone. When asked if he should have considered getting into a debate over the "swarm of bees" comment, Clemmons said, "I didn't think it was the time nor the place" to do so.

The NAACP Legal Defense Fund and the ACLU are joining the U.S. Justice Department to challenge the legality of South Carolina's 2011 voter ID law, which requires voters to show one of five forms of ID and which some believe is targeted at African-American and minority voters. The law is currently under examination in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, which will determine if it violates the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/alan-clemmons-voter-id-law_n_1839375.html

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not saying gravity doesn't bend light. Heck it can even trap it. I'm saying those observations are merely that - observation. They do not explain gravity.

Here's something to ponder: Say I made a scale model of our solar system, the Sun being the size of a city block. It sitting right here in VanWa. Pluto (yes, yes, I know) would be the size of a soft ball and be sitting at about the distance of the tri-cities.

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


and :

#Unconventional
Paul Krugman

No, I didn’t watch it. In the immortal words of Barbara Bush, why should I waste my beautiful mind on that?

Still, I get the essence. The GOP campaign is based on five main themes, three negative and two positive.

Negative:

The claim that Obama denigrated businessmen, saying that they didn’t build their own firms — which isn’t true.

The claim that Obama has gutted Medicare to pay for the expansion of health insurance — which isn’t true.

The claim that Obama has eliminated the work requirement for welfare — which isn’t true.
Positive:

The claim that Ryan has a plan to balance the budget — which isn’t true.

The claim that Romney has a plan for economic recovery — which isn’t true. (The Economist: “The Romney Programme for Economic Recovery, Growth and Jobs” is like “Fifty Shades of Grey” without the sex).

It seems to me that there’s a pattern here, but I can’t quite figure it out. The editorial page has some ideas.

Also, Robin Wells on health care and women, and Matt Miller on Christie.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/unconventional

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Drift. Never heard of this "turtles all the way down" term, especially since I don't rely on the internet for all my answers and haven't had a science class since the 70's. Sometimes it's nice to have a complete discussion without links or cited sources and no explanation. Seems to be a certain theme amongst a select group here on the forum who can't speak for themselves, but that's a whole different subject matter. Anyhow Drift, I appreciate that you have taken the time to share a bit of discussion from your perspective in the vast world of science.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What I said to Drift...that goes for you as well, Frobert. Thanks. Every day in our lives is a learning experience.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 10:01 a.m

I'm not sure if it's a Republican't thing or not but David Madore stated that "when" he is elected, he has a plan where there will be jobs here in Clark County for everyone who wants one and the day after he takes office the "floodgates will open".

He refuses to give any details.

I guess that's how one campaigns now. No specifics, just generalizations.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"No specifics, just generalizations."

Better than promising hope and change! How many people right now are ***hoping*** to find some spare ***change*** right now???

My point??? It's the political game, hawkeye. They're not out to make a change FOR the people. That's a bunch of horse hockey!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye-*No specifics, just generalizations.*

Your statement encapsulates the 2012 "Jobs/Economic" Republican platform.

Madore just barks his party platform.

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/au...

Definitely a must watch/set the DVR event!

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


GEEZ, the stench from the *donkey* stall is overwhelming! Someone needs to clean it up.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""Definitely a must watch/set the DVR event!"""

And miss a rerun of America's Got Talent??? Just kidding.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*a select group here on the forum who can't speak for themselves*

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.

We've discussed this before.

The basic point is that ideas don't pop out of the ether fully formed. They evolve, develop, gather validity through observation, build further from those observations.

Providing citations offers the reader ways to learn further; points the reader toward what informs the thinking.

Not acknowledging the thinking of others is only a step or two removed from plagiarism and is part and parcel with intellectual malfeasance.

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.

I think you are confused. I just saw an elephant take a dump behind your house.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Myself, I like using two methods when I'm making a point... or engaged in polite discussion. Okay, maybe three methodologies.

One is, I don't really care about the subject enough to offer substantive evidence to my claim (or whatever). The dump it and let it go method.

Another, is to attempt an engagement that encourages my antagonist to do their own research. For instance suggesting going to the Pub Med site (NHI) and entering "cannabis" along with, oh say, 'Parkinson's," and then get back to me on the efficacy of cannabis in nerve disorders.

The last would be the "in your face" deal. That would be where I provide a link to a reputable source to not only bolster, but prove my point.

And sometimes I get schooled. Frankly, I like those exchanges best. Most likely I will have learned something.

And then sometimes I don't wanna mess with any of it and would rather wander aimlessly in the backyard.

I've alway liked science, goldie - most any of it. Though I do have a bit more interest in this rather than that. Paradoxically, I've always been lousy at higher math ;^)

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.

Have the laws of physics been repealed? Warming can only cause more rain, oceanic cooling causes droughts.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye, not her fault, no indoor plumbing!!

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey nail,
What's your take on this?

"Two Republican convention attendees were thrown out of the Tampa Bay event after they threw peanuts at a nearby journalist (female and black and said, "This is how we feed animals."

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh the narcissistic one speaks... snort you are still the little engine that never tried, never could, never will.

Oh by the way, your memory is slipping boy, (tsk tsk) there "were" 5 of us, now there is only me for now. Couple others might use this name soon, that is if they decide they would like to waste their time with the likes of.... so easy to do with lame stream indoctrinated lefties.

crazytrain — August 28, 2012 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

the junior college attendee is moving right along in his studies, too bad he doesn't play baseball and learn how to get on base. Needs to take some philosophy classes in with his potty training to round out those assumptions.

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hubbard says Romney is still committed to making his tax cuts "revenue neutral"--in other words, not leading to an increase in the deficit.

When I asked how this was possible, given the magnitude of the cuts (20% across the board on personal income taxes, along with a 10-point cut to corporate income taxes), Hubbard explained that the cuts would be offset by:

Stronger economic growth, and
"Broadening the base" of taxpayers (in other words, having poor and lower-middle-income Americans pay income tax.

***Yea, that's it, cut the taxes on the upper class (20%) and make the poor pick up the slack. So riddle me this, Willard, if you are paying only 14% now, what will you be paying after a 20% cut? Like around 10%? What a deal. ***

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal



OSPI released test scores today.

http://reportcard.ospi.k12.wa.us/summary.aspx?year=2011-12

langenthal — August 29, 2012 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Have the laws of physics been repealed? Warming can only cause more rain, oceanic cooling causes droughts.

The oceans must be getting cooler. I read today where the north polar ice cap has been shrinking at such a rate since 2007 the researchers figure in a decade, the north pole will be ice-free in summer. So all that melting ice must mean cooler oceans, right? Works in my tea, right?

But there's another plus. Think how much easier the oil companies can drill for off-shore oil up north without that pesky ice cap to deal with. Less ice, more oil! Happy days are here again..........

mrd — August 29, 2012 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


soapbox4u @ 12:55- I read an article yesterday about this. If this type of blatant racist activity were pervasive at the RNC convention it'd be something I'd rail about. Any group can have an over the top nutbag that would do something like this.

Till then I'll just rail about subversive GOP policies which take an unfair toll on minorities to include the elderly, poor, disenfranchised, people of color, gays, veterans, disabled and children. :))

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.

AND

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 12:49 p.m.

Laughing my "you know what" off right now!!! Classic insult, you two! Too bad I was speaking about the stall...aka forum.

Soooo typical!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice day to get the fall vegetable garden planted and am glad the heavy work is behind me. Soon the carrots, beans, kale, Swiss Chard, broccoli and bunching onions will be reaching for that bright orb in the sky as they fill in...blending in with the peas, garlic, lettuce, cabbage and spinach in their respective raised beds.

Harvest time right now...corn, onions, garlic, dumpling squash, a mound of heritage tomatoes, other squashes and cucumbers, herbs galore, green beans, shell beans, lettuce, 4 types of peppers...along with pears, apples, plums and prunes, blueberries and huckleberries, blackberries and more!!! It's canning time!!!! And with hunting season just beginning...

Next month and October will be harvest time for the rest of the winter squashes as the temps turn cooler. For anybody without a garden, a walk through the local farm store will have the wonderful, musky smell of dill and onions and garlic and sweet fruit!!! Take advantage of some of those winter squashes and sweet potatoes and yams if you can!!!

A lot of TLC and a lot of work which will pay off come November!!!

You gotta love harvest time!!! The fruits of the efforts of the farmers and gardeners like myself are always a pleasure!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal @ 11:37- I was thinking along these lines while driving home today. Kinda like folks getting together and agreeing the world is flat, so, that in and of itself would bring some type of validity with some. Although scientific empirical evidence states otherwise, some would think opinion should be acceptable and/or take precedent with facts.

This seems to be a common belief with conservatives who not only post here, (i.e. DBW yesterday @ 8:45 PM & go yesterday @ 9:47 AM, two of many examples which reflect a continuing belief with both) but leaders in the conservative movement. i.e. the latest from Congressman Akin.

Just throw something out there and if enough people are like minded than it has validity. This thought process is continually being taken advantage by hucksters on the right. i.e. Beck, Savage, O'Reilly, Limbaugh and many more.

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal @ 1:44- All in all across the spectrum kids continue to achieve and results continue to improve. :) Thanks.

Kudos to those in Public Ed. You truly do make a difference.

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Howdy once again. Must be the week of insults in cellar right now, because they are flowing heavily, including from people who I thought would not stoop this low. One reason I am staying away a bit lately, as I think it has deteriorated. How about we discuss a bit more and insult a bit less?

I also just read about the 2 attendees who pelted the reporter with peanuts. As a good liberal, I will only say every side has nutties. I cannot and will not blame the whole convention for these two idiots. I disagree 100% with the platform of the GOP but I don't think they all think like this. Just glad the morons got their behinds thrown out.

Got back from DC-what an exciting town. So much to see and do. And the manure, how it flows. I skipped the Capitol as the stench just poured out. :)

Always good to see the daily protests going on in front of the WH. Always sad to see the large number of homeless right there on the Mall. A powerful commentary on our times. So much poverty in sight of the marble-clad buildings.
On my 17th captcha, hope I can decipher this one.

luvithere — August 29, 2012 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*...back to science*

everything in the universe orbits something. we orbit the sun, and our solar system, belonging to the milky way, orbits the galactic center.

the distances are so huge, earth has made the trip around the galactic center only 20 or 21 times - since the big bang. the middle of the galactic center is supposed to have a mega black hole.

and to add the fairy-dust aspect to the picture, our very own galaxy is warped. we're near the edge, or crease of it.

this edge of the galaxy undulates; moves up and down much like a sheet hanging on a laundry line.

it's THOUGHT the cause is dark energy or dark matter, but nobody knows.

thought experiement: what would happen to good ol' solar system if we arrive at a point which circling the galactic center where we have an unbroken line between us and the mega black hole?

enjoy your dreams, kiddies.

DeeLittle — August 29, 2012 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal



frobert — August 29, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.

I'm sure you can explain why your expertise says that 97% of the scientists who are published in the field (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf
) are wrong.....

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere - I agree with your post. I often stay away as I don't like the attacks on this forum. I love a good debate. However, when a person has to resort to insults, I believe they have already lost the debate. While I do not lean left, I respect that people have different opinions. I love visiting D.C. as well.. so much history and is very interesting. Cheers

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Welcome back luvit!

---

Anyone giving attention to the RNC convention? A quick take...

Most likely a rare time when Rachel Maddow was in agreement with Chris Wallace, (I kinda like Wallace, and at times I'm sure he makes Dad proud) and I also felt the same about Christie's speech. Although I expected Christie to bloviate about himself, I was taken back as to how little he spoke of Romney. Also he came off as just one more angry white Republican who wants to "bounce" this Prez from office. Nikki Haley was absurd and vicious. Queen Ann pleased her subjects & Boehner's little talk was mean spirited and nonsensical.

No doubt Ryan will stay away from any specifics tonight. I wonder who will be the surprise speaker tomorrow night? Sarah? Dubya? The Donald? Nugent? Putin? (reminds me of opening a box of Crackerjacks:)

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Woosker!

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 3:27 p.m.

97% Believe that drought is caused by global warming? You really need to source that. The laws of physics dictate that warmer temperatures can only cause more moisture in the atmosphere never less. A small number of your 97% are claiming that changing weather patterns causes the droughts, but for this theory to hold water(no pun intended) there would need to be corresponding amounts of extra rain in this hemisphere.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This convention is naturally all about sentiments and how bad the other party is. Then we get the Dems and they will do the same. Would it not be nice if they take their overly stuffed egos and maybe, just maybe, tackle some issues? Speak the truth?

However, the GOP truly lost me when they decided to give the Donald an award. Birther boy with fakey hair and little brain? Sad sad.

Woosker, right. Debates are getting lost here, a real shame.

luvithere — August 29, 2012 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


thought experiement: what would happen to good ol' solar system if we arrive at a point which circling the galactic center where we have an unbroken line between us and the mega black hole?

enjoy your dreams, kiddies.

DeeLittle — August 29, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.

Heck of a question, Dee! Without doing any research I'll take a stab at it.

I dunno.

But if I were to guess -

Nothing, or, we would move a tad farther out in the wheel. Forget the hole, there's a heck of a lot of mass between us and it. Removing that could create problems. Or not.

Your statement about "dreams" has me pondering humanity's obsession with mortality.

But, man, that could get pretty deep down the well (c'mon! that was great pun! ;^)

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 1:50. Thanks for your perspective.
Somewhat fascinating, these games called politics...

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 12:49 p.m.

Laughing my "you know what" off right now!!! Classic insult, you two! Too bad I was speaking about the stall...aka forum.

Soooo typical!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 1:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

You might as well make it worth the effort and keep laughing for at least three years, that should be long enough to get rid of your "you know what". Is it true the MO runs in families???

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*The laws of physics dictate that warmer temperatures can only cause more moisture in the atmosphere never less.*

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.

Show us how you know that.

Don't forget to explain why your "laws of physics " don't jive with the observations.

And, don't forget to explain why we should be listening to you rather than the "97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field (who) support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change," (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf).

Not to mention the thousands of citations in AR4....

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Nailingit!! I hope you have been doing fabulous!

None of the people you mentioned will be speaking at this convention, thank goodness! When Sarah Palin comes on the T.V. I can't change the channel fast enough. She is like a cartoon to me. I thought Mitt's wife did a good job and Christie was awesome as usual. I love the fact that he did not waste time attacking the President, he just said what he thought like he always does. Nothing fake about that guy at all.

What the heck is up with this stupid Captcha that needs to be entered to post. It would be helpful if it was easier to read!

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 3:49 p.m.

You still haven't sourced your 97% that believe that global warming causes droughts. My statement had nothing to do with the validity of global warming theory, it only questioned the validity of Hansen's false claim that it caused droughts.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker- *I hope you have been doing fabulous!* You also! There is supposed to be a "surprise" guest tomorrow. Sarah does fire up her base (I'll give her that) but beyond that I agree, nails on a blackboard. I can see how right leaning people enjoy Christie. I thought last night was extremely self serving though.

I thought Ann did a good job also. (considering her politics:) She does bring some personality to the Romney ticket. Sorely needed!

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


soapbox4u @3:48 pm...got your chest waders on yet? It's obvious the mud's gettin' pretty deep around your feet. So soapie...how about we discuss...REAL issues, now. I know, you'll have to throw in another dig first...and that's okay. Actually, you're getting pretty funny lately.

Hey...here's a good subject to start...

Regarding Obamacare...

Do you think Obamacare will allow people to utilize medical marijuana for conditions such as Social Anxiety Disorder and Sleep Deprivation Disorders??? It is my opinion that medical marijuana should be used for the very extreme medical cases.

I find it ironic that there are so many "legal" marijuana grows...and the cops are bustin' them left and right for growing too many plants. Makes one wonder if they're being set up...ya think???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit...I'm curious (I know, that gets me in trouble lately, lol)...

How do you manage to watch stations like Fox News or even read up on GB so you can argue his talking points in order to catch up on what you determine as rwtp...and how in the heck can you stand to watch the conventions???

Iilghhh!!! Nauseating.

You must have one heck of an intestinal fortitude!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sarah does fire up the base but I'm not sure why. I will not listen to her. Surprise guest? Please nobody you mentioned. Trump, Bush, etc. We already had to endure 8 years of Bush talking! Many on the right are stating the same thing that Christie was self serving last night. I can see why people think that. I just like the guy so I didn't really care. I have no doubt he will be running for President in either 4 or 8 years depending on what happens this November. I respect the fact that although he was pleaded with to run this November, he wouldn't do it as he didn't think he was ready. I respect that very much.

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden - I don't think anyone is being set up. If they break the law by having massive grows, they get busted. Pretty simple really. I have no problem with people who are ill to use marijuana to ease pain. I certainly would not want any of my loved ones to suffer if something would help.

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*questioned the validity of Hansen's false claim that it caused droughts.*
frobert — August 29, 2012 at 4:10 p.m.

YOU are the one making the claim of "laws of physics" and "only".

I'd suggest, since you have that level of expertise to make those sorts of claims, that you ask Dr. Hansen why he - in your opinion, with your studied expertise - is wrong.

Or listen carefully;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2KyF...

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here you go:

james.e.hansen@nasa.gov

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*It is my opinion that medical marijuana should be used for the very extreme medical cases.*

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.

Why the "extreme" qualifier?

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Woosker, long time no hear here! How the heck are you?

Luv, nice to see you again, what happened is it old home day or something?

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.

About medical MJ, I think they need to do more studies on it and the possible uses for it. If a person can use it in whatever form instead of something like codeine, then it should be available to them.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.

I'll take the laws of physics and accepted standards of meteorology over "snake oil" any day. The statistics of "extreme events" is skewed because of our ever improved measurement.

You have yet to prove your false claim that 97% agrees with Hansen's flawed assumption.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.

And, don't forget to explain why we should be listening to you rather than the "97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field (who) support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change," (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf).

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, if you where claiming that global warming was causing more energy in the weather system, like more frequent and stronger tornadoes and hurricanes, you would be complying with the laws of physics. That is not happening this year, but El Niño should be back in the next couple of years and alarmists can claim vindication.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So Fro, what are you thinking? Are we going to have a bad winter, snow, rain or what?

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

I did not claim today that the 97% was wrong, I only claimed that a couple of politically motivated nuts where wrong.

Please source where 97% believe that drought are caused by global warming.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 5:25 p.m.

I would suggest consulting the "Farmers Almanac", they do a much better job of predicting than the alarmists.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry, I never thought of YOU as an "alarmist"

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi Hawkeye!! I'm doing great. How about you? I missed you guys here in the basement!

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie @ 4:41- I enjoy the conventions! Both Dem & GOP. It's a window into the soul of each party.

---

As far as grows getting busted, we don't hear about the ones po po's don't bust who are growing within their limits.

---

Woosker- Understanding we disagree on much, your posting is a breath of fresh air in this much too often dank basement. Much appreciated! Please don't make yourself such a stranger.

---

Speaking of fresh air, where is manthou? I miss her.

manthou?..............................................

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Examples of extreme cases:

Conventional medicine no longer effective

The unbearable pain of chemotherapy

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, medical marijuana should *not* be a replacement for codeine. It should be a replacement for much stronger meds such as opiates like OxyContin...but FIRST...the pharmacological world, in connection with the medical professionals need to monitor their patients better than they are right now. Doctors will easily prescribe just about anything without checking the patient's medical history. If the patients don't ask the questions, chances are they are either increasing their health risks with the meds OR they could be over medicating just by the simple task of a daily routine of taking their vitamins. Also...how many times has the doctor prescribed something to you...you found it either made you sick or it was ineffective...then the doctor prescribes something else and fails to tell you to stop taking the first one? Sad to say...this IS going on. All you have to do is talk to those in the pharmacy.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.

Why should marijuana be illegal at all?

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


cannabis use for chemotherapy (**not for pain**):

"Marinol and Dronabinol contain man-made THC and are widely prescribed by doctors to relieve the nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy for cancer patients and to assist with loss of appetite with AIDS patients. Nabilone, Cesamet, Cannabinor and Dexanabinol contain a synthetic drug similar to THC for those same purposes."

Sativex is the latest prescription cannabinoid medication and the only natural THC product developed from raw marijuana. It is a mouth spray that delivers a precise dose."

That is also quite a few synthetics available...

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Done without a piece of mud, eh??

soapbox4u — August 29, 2012 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit, I respect the fact that you enjoy watching the conventions. After all, it *IS* history in the making. As far as it being a window into the soul of each party...maybe each party member, perhaps??? Not a very pleasant window view from my perspective. They're all a bag of hot air, lol. Luvithere said it so well at 3:41 pm (welcome back home, luvithere!!!).

..

soapbox4u...I hear a mud mask could be therapeutic...8)
No more need for mud. Let's leave it where it belongs...in the ground on a rainy day.

From what I've read in several medical websites, cannabis IS used for pain associated with certain cancers as well as the nasty side effects of chemotherapy...also for reduction of nausea. Must be it helps the person relax??? That I truly don't know...never ever used it.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert @6:05 pm, good question. Why is liquor legal??? Why are the stores still allowed to sell cancer sticks aka cigarettes??? Why are these "high energy" drinks legal??? Why is HFCS legal??? Why do they have to put certain decongestants behind the counter at pharmacies and why in some states do you have to obtain a prescription for them???

Okay...guess I'm getting carried away, here...but I think you get the point.

Can you imagine if Marijuana was made legal, just how much the government and all the retailers would have to get their percentage???

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker...glad to see you're back.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:35 p.m.

I could go on about legal cigarettes or illegal epinephrine asthma inhalers, but I will just say the Federal government is given no authority under the Constitution to decide what medications or recreational drugs I chose. What is funny is that it is the more conservative elements of the Supreme Court that agree with me, and the liberal block shows solidarity against medications.

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert @6:43pm...

Methinks it's all in the money. If BIG Pharma can't profit from it...??????

I'll leave the rest up to everyone to finish that one.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anybody catch the article about the traffic study??? Just as I'd expected...with the widening project in Delta Park as well as a poor local economic factor, traffic flow has improved and our little ol' town has gone in the opposite direction from the original studies and assumptions by those in support of the CRC.

Not good news for light rail supporters...heheheheh (sarcastic laugh).

Seriously, if they're going to replace the bridges...maybe they need to build them side by side (like I-205) with a centralized designated easement to accommodate Buses as well as FUTURE light rail IF and WHEN it is truly needed. No stacking lanes...no height adjustments necessary.

As of right now...Central Park and Downtown Vancouver don't need such a system. There's just not enough ridership to reflect the need to improve from the current design of Delta Park into Portland into a 2 1/2 mile extension into Vancouver's already congested region.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney's not only out of touch, he could give a flyin'...flag.

**Romney Party Yacht Flies Cayman Islands Flag**

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/romney-party-yacht-flies-cayman-islands-flag/story?id=17105028#.UD7HZRwU7Dp

---

That I truly don't know...never ever used it.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:30 p.m.

Smoke a bowl. Trust me. You and yours would benefit greatly!!! ;))

nailingit — August 29, 2012 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Golden!! Loving Condi. Great speech.

Woosker — August 29, 2012 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 29, 2012 at 5:21 p.m

??????????

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 7:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.

Again, WHY the qualifier of "extreme"?

mr_basil_seal — August 29, 2012 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks but no thanks, Nailingit. My favorite escape....goin' to the beach or the mountains. Nothing more soothing than the sound of waves along the beach, a breeze rustling the dune grasses and shore birds singing along their merry way OR the trees swaying gently in the mountains. Great daydreaming moments for sure!!!

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil...you've asked that twice. Sorry I didn't respond correctly the first time. Why the qualifier??? Because marijuana in some forms do alter the person's mental capabilities (for some...they're more clear headed. Others...not so quick to respond). I believe there should be some regulations on the use of medical marijuana...for safety sake.

From what I understand about the use of marijuana for pleasure, reactionary times are hindered and laws should be at least as strict as with alcohol. Not sure I'd want someone tailgating me while utilizing pot...especially if I had to come to an abrupt stop.

Now please don't misinterpret my intentions, here. I'm not saying "arrest or cite" individuals in possession. That's left up to the interpretation of the laws and the officer who should come into contact with the person under the influence. I"m not about to tell them how to do their jobs.

What I am saying is this. For those who are under physician's care and must utilize MM for pain or nausea and have been instructed to avoid driving or heavy machinery, they should also make sure they have designated drivers helping them out should they need to go somewhere like a doctor's appointment just like with prescription pain pills or muscle relaxants, although I believe some forms of MM do not produce that "Don't worry, be happy" feeling.

Have I answered your question? If not...it'll have to wait till tomorrow. I'm checkin' out for the evening.

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I find it so amazing that so many voters became "disenfranchised" after someone on the left told them they were.

And Dems screaming the ID laws are apparently racist? Maybe the Dems is slowly showing their racist roots?

danabwoodley — August 29, 2012 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, medical marijuana should not be a replacement for codeine. It should be a replacement for much stronger meds such as opiates like OxyContin

goldenoldie — August 29, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.

If you read my post I said "like codeine". But beyond that, Why not?

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 29, 2012 at 7:54 p.m.

Seriously, don't be an idiot.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, whether or not you like Ryan, after watching and listening to Ryan's speech this evening, Biden should find a way to withdraw from the Vice Presidential debate. He hasn't got a chance against Ryan. Although, if he smoked enough pot, he may think he won.

cranky — August 29, 2012 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NEW YORK (AP) — Four years ago, she was the star of the Republican National Convention. Now Sarah Palin is upset about getting the hook from the television network where she is working.

The former vice presidential candidate posted on her Facebook page Wednesday that she's "sorry Fox (News Channel) canceled all my scheduled interviews" for the evening. She said she wanted to honor John McCain, who selected her as his running mate in 2008.

Fox executive Bill Shine said the network's plans changed because the Republicans had to condense their schedule of speeches from four nights to three because of Hurricane Isaac. He said Fox looks forward to having Palin back soon.

The former Alaska governor is a paid Fox contributor. She was on the network Monday and Tuesday nights.

***Life's tough all over***

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — August 29, 2012 at 1:44 p.m.

" I read today where the north polar ice cap has been shrinking at such a rate since 2007 the researchers figure in a decade, the north pole will be ice-free in summer."

I don't know what your source is but here are the NOAA satellite photos, and they show just the opposite, a 22% increase in ice coverage.

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/ARCHIVE/AK/2007/ims2007265_alaska.gif

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/DATA/cursnow_alaska.gif

frobert — August 29, 2012 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi GO, Nail, Hawk, nice to be back.
Hawk - what do you mean old home day? Still living here, but working all day so being ethical and not using computer at work and waiting til I get home, but always reading the forum. Even if I don't comment.
Also: better conversations this evening, a bit more civil.

luvithere — August 29, 2012 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — August 29, 2012 at 9:28 p.m

Old home "day" with you and Woosker showing up. Nice surprise. As for better conversations. I suppose. But again, glad you're here.

hawkeye — August 29, 2012 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You wanna talk about pot? Heh!

I think first I'd want to separate recreational and medicinal in the conversation. My arguments would be pro in either case, but the reasoning would be quite different in each case.

I could be a butt and say if you'd care to speak of medicinal cannabis intelligently you might consider starting here:http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/301notes2.htm
But I don't wanna be a butt.

The thing is, there's science out there that relates to how phyto, endo, and synthetic cannabinoids manipulate systems within our bodies through neurons.

Naw. It's late. I should hit the rack. As I wrote previously, go to PubMed and enter cannabis (or THC, marijuana, CBD) and pick an autoimmune disorder of your choice. When you're done with that abstract pick another. Here's a start for ya: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248049

Drift — August 29, 2012 at 10:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Every time I see politicians giving speeches I think back to that Mel Brooks movie 'Blazing Saddles'.

Ya know the scene where Mel plays the gov and says something about have to 'protect our phony baloney jobs'.

JohnCasey — August 30, 2012 at 4:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder if the LEO's are looking for the shooter (Chavez) south of the border. These special kind of idiots always run when the heat is on.

Remember MS-13 means Mighty Stupid-IQ.

JohnCasey — August 30, 2012 at 4:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — August 29, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.

Your links reminded me of my college days and all the medical training I'd studied. If you notice in your second link, it speaks of Alzheimer's...a fatal disease which cannabinoids help to reduce the effects of the condition. This is yet another example of useful cannabinoid treatment. I guarantee you this, Drift...the use of marijuana for medical treatment IS being abused. Come on now...treatment for GERD??? Heck, just cutting preservatives, soda and these high energy drinks will reduce the symptoms of GERD...probably eliminate the disease altogether with proper diet and nutrition.

If you also notice my comment at 7:50 pm, I intentionally separated each talking point of MM and recreational marijuana.

What I speak of isn't whether or not MM is useful in medical treatments for multiple conditions. What I speak of is the fact that in today's current status regarding the law and the use of cannabis, there ARE doctors who are quick to choose cannabinoids for treatment as they once were for OxyContin (and some probably still are).

I don't know about you...or anybody else here in the forum and their recreational OR medicinal use of cannabis, but I know for sure I'm not going to pay $150 or more to a physician who will just turn around and tell me "Go smoke some bud, three times a day to relieve your symptoms." That's about as effective as the physician saying "Take two aspirins and call me in the mornin'." I've heard also that the dispensed form of MM isn't always effective and that the condition must be treated properly with the correct cannabinoid prescript. There *HAS* to *BE* discretion...some kind of control in prescribing *ANY* drug which alters the reactionary capabilities of the human physiology or abuse will go unchecked. I don't think doctors and BIG PHARMA have that capability and I don't believe humans as a whole can prevent the abuse.

I know, I know...you're going to tell me MM isn't addictive. That I'd take your word for it...but what happens when the MM no longer is effective for the patient???

Get my drift, Drift???

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey...isn't it wonderful the little political digs our wonderful actors and actresses tell us without realizing it till we have that "AHA!!!!" moment. Regarding your comment about the Mel Brooks Movie Classic (One of my favorites by him)...all I can say is.....

*Whyyyy Not???* *It worked in Blazing Saddles!!!*
(Robin Hood, Men in Tights...another clever Mel Brooks Classic)

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 29, 2012 at 9:25 p.m.

You are using selective data. There are a few ways to measure the ice; thickness, multi-year, extent, when max and min happen.

That you picked one, and one only, to attempt to prove your point shows how little you value intellectual honesty.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/ for more info

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Come to think of it...When I watch those windbags talking during highlights of the RNC on the news, I had a flash run through my mind of Charlie Brown and how he comprehended his teacher's discussions.

Wah! Wah! Wah!!!!

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Frobert @9:25 pm, if you ever have a chance to take a summer trip to Alaska...you just might take note of the date markers heading into the region of Kenai Fjords National Park...the Exit Glacier to be exact. These markers are in place, showing where the glaciers once stood as far back as 1848. I guarantee you, it gives an excellent perspective regarding the melting of the polar ice pack.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 6:43 a.m.

Here is the graph from NOAA, put in the years 2006 until present, the article you cited appears to be using a doctored graph. Or is NOAA not a valid source if it doesn't match the propaganda?

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/products/ice_extent_graphs/arctic_daily_ice_extent.html

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


FRO-

couldn't find the original article I read but stumbled across this one. the original article used satelite images for several years, and this one seems to do the same, although I didn't read the entire thing. there was another article I read part of, a National Geographic site which used satelite data to come to the same conclusions, just a slightly different timeline.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jul/11/arctic-ice-free

mrd — August 30, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

What gives you the perception that the graph is "doctored"?

from The National Snow and Ice Data Center (http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/):

"August 27, 2012
Arctic sea ice appears to have broken the 2007 record daily extent and is now the lowest in the satellite era. With two to three more weeks left in the melt season, sea ice continues to track below 2007 daily extents."

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 7:54 a.m.

"What gives you the perception that the graph is "doctored"?"

Because it deviates significantly from the NOAA graph.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil.

For years you have insisted that NOAA is an unimpeachable source, but now when it disagrees with alarmism you insist that using it is intellectually dishonest.

Who is being intellectually dishonest?

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Get my drift, Drift???

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 6:36 a.m

There are several areas of discussion you don't appear to be familiar with, goldie.

First off, if you'll reference 69.51A you'll see that cannabis is a treatment of last resort. Other procedures, theraries and medicines have to have been ineffective before cannabis can be recommended (at least, under the law 69.51A.030.2a.iv).

Another issue is many doctors won't discuss cannabis due to their employer's policies. For instance, my health care is through the V.A. Though the V.A. issued a memorandom stating the medicinal use of cannabis is not grounds (per se)for discontinuing a narcotics contract, a V.A. doctor cannot make a recommendation. BTW, my doc approves (personally) of my cannabis administration. She even made a dosing suggestion.

Many people administering cannabis don't smoke it a'tall. Many people administering cannabis do so in a manner that mitigates the psychoactive effect of THC. Goldie, did you know raw cannabis does not contain THC? Raw cannabis contains (amoung about another 65 phytocannabinoids) THCA. There's an hydroxl group attached to the THC. Many folks with gastric issues eat the stuff - raw.

Anything can be abused, alcohol, pain-killers, donuts...

Nearly 100,000 people die every year from adverse reactions to FDA approved perscription drugs. NSAIDs take out as many as 16,000. Do you know how many fatal cannabis doses have been recorded in all of history? 0, zip, goose egg, not a one.

Oh, and the synergistic relationship between cannabis and opiate pain relievers has been anecdotally noted by western physicians since around the 1840s. Recent clinical studies bear this out.

I think there's a bit more to medicinal cannabis administration than you are aware of. It's a tad bit more complicated than, "Smoke two joints and call me in the morning."

Drift — August 30, 2012 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

You need to document what you are talking about; at this point you are either factually confused or are attempting to prove a point by willful distortion.

Maybe, after you really bring your informed sources and some explanation of how you've reached your conclusions, we can delve into where you went wrong.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

Really? Walk us through how you reached that conclusion.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Al Gore On Media’s Failure To Address Global Warming: ‘There’s Hardly Any Discussion About It. It Drives Me Crazy’

By Stephen Lacey on Aug 30

George Monbiot has a new piece in the Guardian titled “The day the world went mad,” which looks at the underwhelming reaction in the press and political sphere to the August 27th announcement of record Arctic ice melt.

As Arctic sea ice faces a death spiral due to human-caused global warming, Monbiot points to the complete lack of attention: Instead of focusing on the Arctic, a British parliament committee on climate change debated building new runways for Heathrow Airport; meanwhile in the U.S., the Republicans were holding a convention celebrating fossil fuels and the party’s active denial of climate change:

“I wonder whether we could be seeing a form of reactive denial at work: people proving to themselves that there cannot be a problem if they can continue to discuss the issues in these terms….When your children ask how and why it all went so wrong, point them to yesterday’s date, and explain that the world is not led by rational people.”

Well, not everyone was ignoring the insanity of the situation. Speaking on Current TV’s coverage of the National Republican Convention, Al Gore had some strong words for the press:

“The whole North polar ice cap is disappearing in front of our eyes. Twelve massive million dollar plus climate related disasters…and they keep coming…Just as [the media] did not report the truth about the proposal to invade Iraq, we are not getting the accurate impression about this challenge that we have to face. To stop putting 90 million tons of global warming pollution up into the atmosphere every single day… They aren’t only doing nothing about it, there’s hardly any discussion about it. It drives me crazy.”

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/30/774271/al-gore-on-medias-failure-to-address-global-warming-theres-hardly-any-discussion-about-it-it-drives-me-crazy/

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Don't you just hate liars?***

Now, says Jeff Greenfield, the veteran political analyst and Yahoo! News columnist, the media is held in such low regard by Americans that getting called out for lying merely serves to confirm a widespread belief that the "liberal media" has an axe to grind against conservative politicians.

As a result, the whoppers that dominated Republican VP candidate Paul Ryan's convention speech last night will likely not hurt the candidate's standing with Republican voters, says Greenfield. Rather, they'll reinforce the right-wing view that the media is "in the tank" for President Obama.

What facts in particular were observers and fact-checkers up in arms about?

Well, for starters, there were once again the claims that Obamacare cuts $716 billion of benefits from Medicare and that Paul Ryan wants to preserve Medicare. The truth is that Obamacare reduces payments to hospitals and doctors by $716 billion, not benefits. Also, far from preserving Medicare, after a 10-year grace period, Romney and Ryan want to radically change it.

Then Ryan blamed S&P;'s downgrade of U.S. debt on Obama, when S&P; explained explicitly that its downgrade was the result of Congressional Republicans--Ryan included--threatening to cause the country to default.

Then Ryan accused Obama of lying to voters in his home state by promising to keep a GM plant open for "hundreds of years" after he was elected, only to have it closed in the first year. The truth is that GM closed the plant before Obama took office.

And so on.

Jeff Greenfield says that none of this will matter to voters, who will just blame the media and its silly "fact-checkers." And he's presumably right.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/paul-ryan-speech-filled-economic-inaccuracies-yahoo-jeff-150011000.html?l=1

hawkeye — August 30, 2012 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 30, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.

S&P; blamed "political brinkmanship" of both parties, not just Republicans, making your quoted article, just more political lies.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Texas Voter ID Law Rejected By Federal Court**

WASHINGTON -- A federal court has ruled against a Texas law that would require voters to present photo IDs to election officials before being allowed to cast ballots in November.

A three-judge panel in Washington ruled Thursday that the law imposes "strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor" and noted that racial minorities in Texas are more likely to live in poverty.

The decision involves an increasingly contentious political issue: a push, largely by Republican-controlled legislatures and governor's offices, to impose strict identification requirements on voters.

The ruling comes in the same week that South Carolina's strict photo ID law is on trial in front of another three-judge panel in the same federal courthouse. A court ruling in the South Carolina case is expected in time for the November election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/texas-voter-id-law_n_1843331.html

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift...I'd bet ya that 9 times out of ten, cannabis as a treatment for GERD was NOT the last resort. I guarantee you it's all about diet and exercise.

I get the feeling you think I'm against cannabis as a viable medical treatment. If so...well Drift, you're assuming incorrectly. What I am trying to relay the message is this. Not all medical professionals have the patients' best interests at heart. You poo poo'ed my comment that the prescribing of cannabis is being abused. That's fine. It probably goes against everything you're supporting.

Remember this, my friend. This lady has studied AND worked in the medical field as has her mother and several other members of her extended family. My experience...transcription of all physician dictations for the patient files...down to the last detail. Extended relatives??? RN's and physicians. I'm not aware if you have ever worked in the medical field or know someone personally who has...but the prescription abuse is out there in FULL swing. On occasion, some of the physicians and pharmacists overlook the issue because of the hustle and bustle of the careers of choice combined with family life. All it takes is one measly little lawsuit and suddenly...they're doing what they were trained to do...but that's an all too different subject in itself.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


TAMPA, Fla. (AP) — Republicans have strengthened the pro-gun-rights portion of their party platform, including a new call for ***unlimited bullet capacities in guns,*** in a defiant response to criticism that followed recent mass shootings at a Colorado cinema and an Arizona congresswoman's gathering.

*Yea, that's what we need, more nuts with more bullets. I believe in gun rights but unlimited bullets is going a little too far. If you can't hit what you are aiming at with 15 rounds, you have no business carrying a gun.*

fro, yes "political brinkmanship", but it was the RepubliCAN'TS that held things up in their ongoing fight against Obama.

hawkeye — August 30, 2012 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


S&P;'s rationale for the 2011 lowering is at http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

Now you can see who was more accurate....

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


How sad the misinformed continue to blur the lines, this time with pot. Truly sad goldenoldie.

---

Yesterday soapbox4u referenced this RNC convention debacle. I thought to marry these two articles.

**Patricia Carroll, CNN Camerawoman, On Racist Attack At Republican National Convention: 'I'm Not Surprised'**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/patricia-carroll-cnn-camerawoman-rnc-attack_n_1843116.html

**Anti-Obama Signs In Massachusetts Create Controversy (PHOTOS)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/anti-obama-signs-in-massachusetts_n_1842736.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cranky-

Here is a little snippet For Pot Smokers everywhere. Maybe that's the problem with some oth the souls in the basement..
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/8513668/marijuana-causes-brain-damage-study

Having someone advocate for someone else to use it as a means for relaxation is a little absurd..

Nail-
This is for you..
http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/2012/05/chem-lab-how-pot-causes-paranoia.html

I can see why you say and think the way you do...There is something blocking those there Neurons from working correctly

vanwadreamer — August 30, 2012 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I guarantee you it's all about diet and exercise.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.

You mean this GERD?
Gastroesophageal reflux disease

"
The risk factors for reflux include:

Alcohol (possibly)

Hiatal hernia (a condition in which part of the stomach moves above the diaphragm, which is the muscle that separates the chest and abdominal cavities)

Obesity

Pregnancy

Scleroderma

Smoking

Heartburn and gastroesophageal reflux can be brought on or made worse by pregnancy and many different medications. Such drugs include:

Anticholinergics (e.g., for seasickness)

Beta-blockers for high blood pressure or heart disease

Bronchodilators for asthma

Calcium channel blockers for high blood pressure

Dopamine-active drugs for Parkinson's disease

Progestin for abnormal menstrual bleeding or birth control

Sedatives for insomnia or anxiety

Tricyclic antidepressants
"

Seems a bit more than "about diet and exercise"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001311/

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.

What is your point? Your cited article just proves my point that S&P; is concerned about both parties and their ability to work together, not just Republicans. They also seem to be looking for cuts and changes that neither major party is willing to embrace. Attempting to put the blame on Republicans or Democrats is just more of the same political brinkmanship that created the problem in the first place. These two parties have totally failed and have done nothing but blame the other for their own ineptitude.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cranky-

Here is a little snippet For Pot Smokers everywhere. Maybe that's the problem with some of our dear "Souls" in the basement..
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/8513668/marijuana-causes-brain-damage-study

Having someone advocate for someone else to use it as a means for relaxation is a little absurd..

Nail-
This is for you..
http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/2012/05/chem-lab-how-pot-causes-paranoia.html

I can see why you say and think the way you do...There is something blocking those there Neurons from working correctly

vanwadreamer — August 30, 2012 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.

Your list omitted H. pylori.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"The role of H. pylori infection in GERD remains controversial and incompletely understood."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11478751

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Your list*
frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.

Not my list..... PubMed citing A.D.A.M.

And in the last 24 hrs you've attempted to prove expertise in:

Finance

Politics

GERD

Climate Science

any other topics you feel we should rely upon your expertise?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 10:41 a.m

I have claimed expertise? Please walk us through how I have claimed expertise in the subjects you noted.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal | Ignore User )

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.

*appears to be using a doctored graph.*
frobert — August 30, 2012 at 7:18 a.m.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 9:39 a.m.

*and they show just the opposite,*
frobert — August 29, 2012 at 9:25 p.m

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11 a.m.

So, pointing out that a press source used a different graph than the official NOAA site used, is claiming expertise in the subject? I don't follow your logic on that one.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"doctored"

Tell us how you know that.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


In the words of his bro..."bring it on"! :)))))

**RNC 2012: Jeb Bush: I will defend George W. Bush from Obama**

Former Florida governor Jeb Bush said Thursday he would open his speech to the Republican National Convention with a defense of his brother George because President Barack Obama keeps running him down.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80438.html#ixzz253QB6jFY

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.

And we note you picked one..... Where's your rebuttal of the other three?

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cranky? Who the heck are you addressing, vanwa?

Not another "brain damage" study?! Oh my! Every time one of these things come out it's debunked and or discredited. Here's the true way of it, vanwa. Kids shouldn't ingest anything that screws with the brain. Anything. Their brains are still finding their place in the world. Messing with forming synapses is not a good idea - period.

Heavy cannabis use *can* cause cognitive issues. Research has shown those will resolve after about a month of abstention.

Yep, cannabis can cause paranoia in the neophyte - true story. The symptom will last a couple of hours and then all will once again be fine.

I'd suggest, van, you go back to your wisdom blog and watch the video on cannabidiol.

Relaxation? Look around and see if you can't find any studies on treating PTSD with cannabis. Maybe start in Israel. Relaxation indeed.

Oh, and the next time one of those pharm ads come across your TV pay attention to the possible side effects. You know, like heart attack, stroke, liver or kidney damage... death. The most pronounced side effect of cannabis is euphoria.

If you don't care for the idea of using cannabis for medicinal or recreational purposes that's fine. Don't. I would suggest, however, before you go off on a rant you take the time to learn a bit about the subject your ranting about.

Ignorance isn't bliss. Anandamide is ;^)

Drift — August 30, 2012 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.

You only made an argument on one.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 11:26 a.m

Either :

Look again

Or

????????????????

You've made ipse dixit claims on four subjects. Including "doctored" and claiming an additional cause of GERD, as well as proclamations on S&P;'s rationale and politics.

I specifically called you out on the "doctored" claims since that one is particularly mind-boggling.

But you can also tell us why 2 words out of a long page of rationale is enough 'proof'. Or why we should follow your GERD expertise.

Or just jump on the 'my original thought' bandwagon.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.

Your ad hominem argument deserves no response.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hopefully this story gets traction with mainstream media.

**The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney**

Mitt Romney likes to say he won't "apologize" for his success in business. But what he never says is "thank you" – to the American people – for the federal bailout of Bain & Company that made so much of his outsize wealth possible.

According to the candidate's mythology, Romney took leave of his duties at the private equity firm Bain Capital in 1990 and rode in on a white horse to lead a swift restructuring of Bain & Company, preventing the collapse of the consulting firm where his career began. When The Boston Globe reported on the rescue at the time of his Senate run against Ted Kennedy, campaign aides spun Romney as the wizard behind a "long-shot miracle," bragging that he had "saved bank depositors all over the country $30 million when he saved Bain & Company."

In fact, government documents on the bailout obtained by Rolling Stone show that the legend crafted by Romney is basically a lie. The federal records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a disaster – leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC – the bank insurance system backed by taxpayers – out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult, Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.

Read more @

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-federal-bailout-that-saved-mitt-romney-20120829#ixzz253rdOEM0

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Revolt of the Rich**

*Our financial elites are the new secessionists.*

Our plutocracy now lives like the British in colonial India: in the place and ruling it, but not of it. If one can afford private security, public safety is of no concern; if one owns a Gulfstream jet, crumbling bridges cause less apprehension—and viable public transportation doesn’t even show up on the radar screen. With private doctors on call and a chartered plane to get to the Mayo Clinic, why worry about Medicare?

--

This raises disturbing questions for those who call themselves conservatives. Almost all conservatives who care to vote congregate in the Republican Party. But Republican ideology celebrates outsourcing, globalization, and takeovers as the glorious fruits of capitalism’s “creative destruction.” As a former Republican congressional staff member, I saw for myself how GOP proponents of globalized vulture capitalism, such as Grover Norquist, Dick Armey, Phil Gramm, and Lawrence Kudlow, extolled the offshoring and financialization process as an unalloyed benefit. They were quick to denounce as socialism any attempt to mitigate its impact on society. Yet their ideology is nothing more than an upside-down utopianism, an absolutist twin of Marxism. If millions of people’s interests get damaged in the process of implementing their ideology, it is a necessary outcome of scientific laws of economics that must never be tampered with, just as Lenin believed that his version of materialist laws were final and inexorable.

Read more @

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revolt-of-the-rich/

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.

???????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Still waiting for the research showing "doctored".

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 1:25 p.m.

You might want to read the wiki definition, before you claim I am wrong.

I have posted graphs, charts and images from NOAA, to support my opinion that the article in question *appeared* to be doctored. I claimed no expertise, hence my choice of the word "appeared". My GERD statement again conveyed no claim of expertise, only pointing out another cause that some researchers have identified. Reading the statement from S&P; should not be taken as a claim of expertise in finance, by any stretch of the imagination. Lastly, everybody is an expert in politics, because everybody has unique opinions and only they can articulate them.

On the subject of still waiting I am still waiting for proof that 97% of climate scientists believe that drought is caused by global warming and not oceanic cooling.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No, you said "doctored" and didn't show any comparable evidence or explain what you think are discrepancies. That you are looking at only one parameter says a lot about selectively using data.

I'd suggest that you look at what the "graphs, charts and images" you posted (where?) are graphing and charting before jumping to the conclusions you have claimed.

IF you have concrete evidence of "doctored" you should be able to show us the numbers.

Your "some researchers" is the key there..... At this point you you need to show us something substantive in the lines of the research.

And I'd think S&P; writing is probably generated by those with a fair amount of demonstrated expertise. Again, you took two words and used that as the sole support of your position.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*I am still waiting for proof that 97% of climate scientists believe that drought is caused by global warming and not oceanic cooling.*

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

??????????????????

Maybe you should be thinking Anthropogenic Climate Change - a term that has been in use for decades - rather than attempting to focus on labeling it 'global warming'.

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, technically "climate change" has been in use since the 70s ( http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/climate_by_any_other_name.html ), ACG since at least the turn of the century (http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/barnett9901.pdf).

mr_basil_seal — August 30, 2012 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil, my dear...it appears you are missing just a few points when it comes to GERD and causes. GERD in itself is a diagnosed disease. Yes, hiatal hernias can have a direct link to GERD, but if you have read the information regarding hh...many occurrences are due not only to pregnancy, lifting heavy objects or an unusually large hiatus, but are also due to OBESITY, COUGHING, STRAINING with a BM. Still...proper diet and exercise, eliminating toxins from our system...all good ways to reduce or eliminate GERD.

Over half of the conditions/medications you listed at 10:11 am are preventable/avoidable.

goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 4:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Split hairs again, haha.

soapbox4u — August 30, 2012 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


soapbox4u — August 30, 2012 at 6:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney will take center stage soon. I'm sure he won't be "straining with a BM". (orally speaking)

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll try not to remember Eastwood this way. Kinda sad...stick to the movies Clint. Weird.

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 30, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.

Careful, GO. You are citing personal experience and listening to others as a source. mr_basil will give you a failing grade for that.

danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.

Ignoring they are from HuffPo, a couple of points on the articles you linked.

Everything I have read about the nut throwing incident, the only thing I see that shows this incident rooted in racism is the words of the media. While I do agree that many incidents of this nature are labeled through perception, I don't see that race is an issue here. Yes, it was certainly wrong, and quite ridiculous for such a thing to occur, but to automatically call racism? I will say that this article didn't implicitly imply this racism is a common view across the party, but you can just feel the underlying sentiment.

Second, I find it very surprising that anyone on the left would even raise an issue regarding these billboards. Yes, they are outrageous, and definitely lack taste, but guess what? 1st Ammendment.

danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.

Fro-

You are forgetting liberal logic. If something is to be blamed on politicians in general, it is the fault of the right exclusively. Haven't you learned that yet?

danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.

Not going to argue over the sentiment here, but am wondering why the onus falls completely on the right?

NAFTA, one of the triggers of oursourcing that helped lead us to the current economic condition, was championed by the president in office at the time of its ratification: William Jefferson Clinton.

danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.

Many of us feel the same way about George Clooney or Sean Penn. (among others)

danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal




danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:26 p.m

Too bad you were wrong about NAFTA. Daddy Bush was the one that wrote and developed NAFTA, and it took years. It was only signed under Clinton. After all that work by Bush and the congress, what's Bill going to do, say no?

hawkeye — August 30, 2012 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DBW- Not sure of any point you're trying to make with any of your posts, to include @ 9:29. The people you mentioned had nothing to do with Clint Eastwood's performance at the GOP convention tonight. No need to to explain yourself. Carry on.

nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:26 p.m.
You are mistaken, NAFTA was not ratified under Clinton, because it was never ratified. It was signed into law by Clinton, and passed by simple majority, bypassing the Constitutionally required ratification process.

frobert — August 30, 2012 at 10:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I didn't expect you to get the point nail. After all, I guess celebrity attempts at meaningful dialogue only happens when they are left leaning.

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 12:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Romney upstaged! :)))

**Clint Eastwood Mocked For Republican Convention Speech**

Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "Reliable Sources," said "Clint's empty chair act" was the "weirdest convention moment I have ever seen." Joe Scarborough, the conservative host of MSNBC's "Morning Joe," declared that "a great night for Mitt Romney just got sidetracked by Clint Eastwood."

Minutes after Eastwood began his speech, someone created an @InvisibleObama account on Twitter. It has already amassed 30,000 followers and counting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/clint-eastwood-convention-speech_n_1846077.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 6:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Exclusive: Inside Karl Rove's Billionaire Fundraiser**

During the more than hour-long session, Rove explained to an audience dotted with hedge fund billionaires and investors—including John Paulson and Wilbur Ross—how his super PAC, American Crossroads, will persuade undecided voters in crucial swing states to vote against Barack Obama. He also detailed plans for Senate and House races, and joked, “We should sink Todd Akin. If he’s found mysteriously murdered, don’t look for my whereabouts!”

Then Rove pleaded with his audience for more money—much more.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-31/exclusive-inside-karl-roves-billionaire-fundraiser#p1

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal


danabwoodley — August 30, 2012 at 9:05 p.m.

(laughing) You're probably right, Dana. Guess if I mention about the licensed pharmacy tech in my family, I might be adding to the accusations of self promoting as well here on the forum...not that I'm the only one who does that. Big deal if I do, you know.

Anyhow, I am fully aware there are a select group of medical cases which are based on hereditary traits or genetics, but that's not the cases I speak of. Of course, the comments I make regarding the medical industry also include data collected from NIH, WebMD, rxlist.com and a few other proven sources (including US Government websites) as well, but I'm sure the gist of my medical discussion points will go in one ear and out the other since I won't take the time to show the extended lines of health issues and from where they've originated in most cases. There's not enough space in each post, lol. It's the denial thing by those who oppose this medical theory which BTW, isn't just mine alone. In fact, I am right in line with what medical doctors are saying as well...but I'm sure *sOMEone*, will expect me to cite my sources because after all...

We're on trial in the Courtroom of Basil.

Sarcasm ended...hehehehe....well, maybe...8)

goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 30, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.

Yeah...you'd rather remember him with Clyde instead??? Or Dirty Harry??? OR Mayor??? Yeah...probably as mayor. He didn't have that great of a reception at the time.

I found it hilarious and worth the time to watch!!! After all, he IS one of the best entertainers in the world, Nail. With FOUR Oscars under his belt, he knows a bit about entertaining the masses.

You think President Obama wasn't laughing???

goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- I found it to be sad. Eastwood is near the top on my favorites list. A great actor, director, producer, composer...a renaissance type of guy. Now many will remember him for his stumbling, awkward, mean spirited, ill informed empty chair performance.

Throughout the convention not a single Republican leader offered a clear view as to how they would lead this country in a different direction. Mittens just referred to his ambiguous 5 point plan from his website. They all just fed their base driven contempt for Prez Obama.

No insight. No direction. No specifics. In short, no vision for our country, other than a U.S. without Obama. Knowing that's enough for the base, it won't be enough for those whose minds aren't made up.

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Eastwood was a gift to the Obama campaign. He's the story today. Not the nominee, Rubio or anyone else. The Romney campaign screws up once again!

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm also a big Clint fan - The Man With No Name, and all the follow-ups - some of the greatest entertainment movies ever.

I was appalled by his rambling, completely disconnected effort last night. I stood in front of my TV pleading for someone to pull the plug on his mike. I couldn't care less about the impact on the Repub show, but Clint's legend didn't need this.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*It's the denial thing by those who oppose this medical theory which BTW, isn't just mine alone.*
goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 7:25 a.m.

Feel free to point out an real research.

As opposed to some anecdotal stories.

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe they should have let Clint speak longer.....

#Mr. Romney Reinvents History

Mitt Romney wrapped the most important speech of his life, for Thursday night’s session of his convention, around an extraordinary reinvention of history — that his party rallied behind President Obama when he won in 2008, hoping that he would succeed. “That president was not the choice of our party,” he said. “We are a good and generous people who are united by so much more than divides us.”

The truth, rarely heard this week in Tampa, Fla., is that the Republicans charted a course of denial and obstruction from the day Mr. Obama was inaugurated, determined to deny him a second term by denying him any achievement, no matter the cost to the economy or American security — even if it meant holding the nation’s credit rating hostage to a narrow partisan agenda.

Mr. Romney’s big speech, delivered in a treacly tone with a strange misty smile on his face suggesting he was always about to burst into tears, was of a piece with the rest of the convention. Republicans have offered precious little of substance but a lot of bromides (“A free world is a more peaceful world!”) meant to convey profundity and take passive-aggressive digs at President Obama. But no subjects have received less attention, or been treated with less honesty, than foreign affairs and national security — and Mr. Romney’s banal speech was no exception.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/opinion/the-hidden-subject-in-tampa.html

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***Now this is new***

LAS VEGAS (FOX5) -

You can add one more reason to keep using Facebook.

The Nevada Secretary of State's office announced Thursday residents can register to vote through an application on the social network.

Secretary Ross Miller's office said the secure and convenient application has been setup with capturing unregistered voters on the world's largest social network.

"By making voter registration accessible on a network that reaches nearly one billion people, my office hopes to capture a segment of the population that is Internet-savvy but hasn't registered to vote yet," said Secretary of State Ross Miller. "Through shares and 'likes,' users can reach out to their friends and family to utilize the online voter registration application so they have a voice in the November 6 general election."

About 680,000 eligible Nevadans are unregistered to vote, Miller said.

To register on Facebook, you can go to facebook.com/NVSOS or apps.facebook.com/nvsosnova.

Registrants must be at least 18 years of age and have a Nevada driver's license or state-issued identification card.

Online voter registration is also available at www.registertovotenv.gov.

The Secretary of State's office noted Nevada became just the second state in the nation to employ voter registration by Facebook.

hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Paul Ryan and I understand how the economy works, we understand how Washington works, we will reach across the aisle and find good people who like us, **want to make sure this company deals with its challenges.** We’ll get America on track again."

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/31/783791/romney-calls-america-company/

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#Cannibalistic Capitalism and Green Resistance

By Craig Collins PhD

In the first installment of this two-part article, we examined the notion that any future without globalization must be an improvement. But globalization and growth only constitute capitalism's expansionist phase, powered by abundant fossil fuels. As energy becomes scarce, boom turns to bust. But profit-hungry capitalism doesn't die; it morphs into its zombie-like, undead phase. Growth-less capitalism turns catabolic. The word catabolism is used in biology to refer to the condition whereby a living thing feeds on itself. Thus, catabolic capitalism is a self-cannibalizing system whose insatiable hunger for profit can only be fed by consuming the society that sustains it.[1] As it rampages down the road to ruin, this system gorges itself on one self-inflicted disaster after another. Unless we forestall it, catabolic capitalism will leave its survivors rummaging through the toxic rubble left behind.
Capitalism is adept at exploiting human weaknesses, especially greed and fear. During the period of rapid expansion, greed propels the most lucrative money-making opportunities, while fear comes in second. People are encouraged to take risks, go into debt and spend beyond their means. Speculative bubbles grow rapidly as people try to make it rich on the next big deal. But when boom turns to bust, fear replaces greed as the easiest sentiment on which to play to make a killing. In these troubled times, the most profitable ventures capitalize on scarcity, insecurity and desperation.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/11173-cannibalistic-capitalism-and-green-resistance

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So, how successful was the Repub Convention?

One hit against Romney was the belief he, and the Party, couldn't connect with the ordinary working American. I'm thinking they did a fair job here - most especially with the message that Pres Obama's intentions with "hope and change" were good, but the policies failed. Witness the closed factory, etc, etc. (I'm not so sure about the giving away his father's inheritance and living in a basement apartment while at college part - I really doubt they suffered.) But I also think they could have done a much better job with explaining what they'd do to turn the economy around and get people back to work. Frankly, they left me with the thought that they're pretty much a one-trick pony; revisit Reagan by cutting gov't spending and reducing restrictions on business, and pray that "trickle down" works this time.

Another goal was to attract minority votes - especially Hispanics. I think they did a great job, focusing on legal vs. illegal immigration, and staging the various Hispanic governors and legislators in key speaking roles. And the heavy emphasis on religion may also have been geared to attracting this vote; Hispanics are supposedly much more religious than other population segments. Unfortunately (for the campaign), the extremists in the Repub base are probably going to kill the inroads this effort might have gained. One speech by Jan Brewer in AZ, for example....

I'm not sure about trying to attract the woman vote. They obviously weren't after the pro-Choice crowd, just middle America. Condy and NM Gov Martinez hit home runs. Ann Romney was so-so (I don't care that she got rave reviews; her speech was too maudlin for me.) But I think Romney himself may have cancelled out any possible gains with his acceptance speech. His comments that what Ann did with raising the children, etc, was more important than anything he did rang hollow and came across as extremely patronizing. And I think Ann Romney sensed this - the cameras kept panning on her with a very pained look on her face.

Overall, I'd say these guys need to get more explicit with how they plan on improving the economy and creating jobs. The Dems are going to go after them on social issues next week, and probably try to keep the conversation focused in that direction. If the Repubs can't come up with something that I think will have a positive impact on my wallet, then I believe they've lost.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#On RNC Opening Night, Republicans Dare to Build a Lie
By Charles P. Pierce

TAMPA, Fla. — It was about halfway through the speech given by Mary Fallin, by the grace of a pitiless god the governor of Oklahoma, where I finally came close to losing it. She rolled herself into this remarkable passage:

The history of my great state of Oklahoma offers a great example of pursuing the American Dream. It was built and settled by pioneers movibe west to seek better lives. During the Great Land Run of 1889, thousands of families rushed to put a stake down on empty plots of land. They built tent cities overnight. They farmed the land and they worked hard. And, in 1897, eight years after the land run, a handful of adventurous pioneers risked their own money — not the federal government's money — to drill Oklahoma's first oil well, the Nellie Johnstone. By doing so, these early-day pioneers changed the future and Oklahoma forever and today Oklahoma is one of the nation's key energy producers and job creators. President Obama wants us to believe that Oklahomans owe that success to the federal government — to the Department Of Energy,to the EPA, to the IRS, or maybe even to him. Mr. President, we know better. As we say in Oklahoma, that dog won't hunt.

Handed in as a seventh-grade history essay, this would get no better than a D. Delivered to the convention of one of our only two political parties, it was perhaps the most singularly dishonest speech I have ever seen a politician give, and I grew up in Massachusetts, and Willard Romney was once my governor. My god, Oklahomans wouldn't even have Oklahoma without the federal government, without the Homestead Act of 1889 or the Railroad Act — both, by the way, achievements of a Republican presidents named Abraham Lincoln and Benjamin Harrison. And the land wasn't exactly "empty," Governor. It got emptied by a big-government program called the United States Army. You know what your state would be without the federal government, Governor, without the votes for the legislation from congressmen from the east and north, without the soldiers from New England and the Great Lakes? You know what Oklahoma would be?
Sand, with a whole lot of pissed-off Native Americans.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/rnc-tampa-night-one-12158408

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""*Feel free to point out an real research.*

*As opposed to some anecdotal stories.*"""

I read that first line really fast and thought you were asking for anal research, lol. Must be a typo on your part, although your request is a bit anal.

Regarding your request???

**NOPE! Not gonna do it. You want to know why???**

Because you're out to refute just about everything I have to say or anybody else has to say whose opinion differs from yours. That is...if you can speak for yourself rather than posting countless links from sites who have one-sided agendas who do the talking for you. Heck, even though I agree that climate change is an issue, you still dissect my comments, looking for that argument.

You want the research...***look for it yourself.*** I know it's there. Others know it's there including the medical professionals...many who are going up against BIG PHARMA and conventional medicine.

Nice try, but not this time, Basil.

Have a nice day, *yer awner!*

goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


crazytrain — August 31, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.

You didn't just say that??? Yeah, you did. (bustin' up)

goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"""Now many will remember him for his stumbling, awkward, mean spirited, ill informed empty chair performance."""*

To each his own. I thought he was funny in the context of his speech and enjoyed it. A bit of age discrimination in your thoughts, perhaps???

goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.

Got it.

No data.

No case.

Tell us how you know the NIH is promoting " one-sided agendas"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001311/

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Basil Seal,

Kindly point out the last time facts truly mattered in a Presidential election.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- It will be interesting to see what kind of bump in the polls Republicans will get from this. Outside of the few people of color they trotted out on stage, it was the whitest crowd this side of Norway!

I think one needs to review the GOP platform and recent newsworthy events to get real insight into this 21st century GOP imo. The last few Romney warmongering remarks about Iran & Putin were disturbing. (who will Colin Powell endorse?) Even more disturbing is the role Bush era neocons would play into a Romney transition team. From the economy to foreign policy, this guy is loaded with them.

Look for Obama to play into the lack of specifics Romney provided at the DNC next week, emphasizing a vision of his own. Republicans have swung the door wide open for Dems to capitalize on specifics. i.e. Jobs bills, infrastructure investment, energy etc. This obstructionist Congress will be on full display also.

Not to mention socially charged issues! :)))

Best speech to date with Romney. Having said that the bar is set so low a two year old gymnast protégé couldn't limbo under it.

Obama will rock the house next week and dominate he debates.

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That would be dominate **the** debates. Not that Romney isn't a master debater. ;))

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Recent reports say Iranians are in Syria. Whether just misstating the Hezbollah presence - I don't know. But if true, then it doesn't matter who is Pres - Israel will probably make their move, and we'll be forced to act.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good news from Ohio:

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/08/31/Federal-judge-orders-Ohio-to-allow-early-voting-on-3-days-before-Election-Day.html

This is the decision:

http://blogs.dixcdn.com/capitalblog/2012/08/obama-suit-decision/

Nailingit --- This is worth taking the time to read. It's a good example of why sharing links is important and worthwhile. [Now if I can get through Captcha before you get it posted!]

langenthal — August 31, 2012 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


from The American Conservative

#Revolt of the Rich
Our financial elites are the new secessionists.

By MIKE LOFGREN
....

I do not mean secession by physical withdrawal from the territory of the state, although that happens from time to time—for example, Erik Prince, who was born into a fortune, is related to the even bigger Amway fortune, and made yet another fortune as CEO of the mercenary-for-hire firm Blackwater, moved his company (renamed Xe) to the United Arab Emirates in 2011. What I mean by secession is a withdrawal into enclaves, an internal immigration, whereby the rich disconnect themselves from the civic life of the nation and from any concern about its well being except as a place to extract loot.

Our plutocracy now lives like the British in colonial India: in the place and ruling it, but not of it. If one can afford private security, public safety is of no concern; if one owns a Gulfstream jet, crumbling bridges cause less apprehension—and viable public transportation doesn’t even show up on the radar screen. With private doctors on call and a chartered plane to get to the Mayo Clinic, why worry about Medicare?

Being in the country but not of it is what gives the contemporary American super-rich their quality of being abstracted and clueless. Perhaps that explains why Mitt Romney’s regular-guy anecdotes always seem a bit strained. I discussed this with a radio host who recounted a story about Robert Rubin, former secretary of the Treasury as well as an executive at Goldman Sachs and CitiGroup. Rubin was being chauffeured through Manhattan to reach some event whose attendees consisted of the Great and the Good such as himself. Along the way he encountered a traffic jam, and on arriving to his event—late—he complained to a city functionary with the power to look into it. “Where was the jam?” asked the functionary. Rubin, who had lived most of his life in Manhattan, a place of east-west numbered streets and north-south avenues, couldn’t tell him. The super-rich who determine our political arrangements apparently inhabit another, more refined dimension.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revolt-of-the-rich/

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We've got a long history of voter fraud influencing elections, yet requiring a picture ID is unfair?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/texas-voter-id-law-struck-down/2012/08/30/4a07e270-f2ad-11e1-adc6-87dfa8eff430_story.html

roger — August 31, 2012 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*We've got a long history of voter fraud influencing elections*

roger — August 31, 2012 at 10:41 a.m.

We do?

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We do? -- mr_basil_seal

Jimmy Carter and James Baker thought there was a problem.

http://www1.american.edu/ia/cfer/report/report.html

roger — August 31, 2012 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


from your link roger-

"The ruling followed a decision Tuesday by another three-judge panel in Washington that found the Republican-controlled Texas legislature had intentionally discriminated against Hispanics in drawing new legislative districts."

Note the use of the word "intentionally".

There's your problem. Not a few, random cases of fraud and, from what I understand, the fraud is mostly in mail-in ballots.

mrd — August 31, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — August 31, 2012 at 12:09 p.m

Voter fraud is discussed 3 times in that report. Later studies have turned up less than a 100 cases in the nation.

The report spends far more space on election fraud, fairness, and removing barriers for voters.

mr_basil_seal — August 31, 2012 at 12:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal- Great news out of Ohio as well as Texas yesterday. Trending nicely! I've yet to see a coherent argument with regards to disallowing number of days/times for voting, as on the "fraud" issue for that matter.

So many things stacked against Obama. Voter suppression, Citizens United, unemployment rate, media, misinformed/disinterested voters etc. It's a tough go.

We might be able to endure four years of Romney if not for the likely hood that two Supreme Court Justices will be put on the bench. Can't wait for the debates!

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


IMHO, If Romney gets in, and that's a BIG IF, he is really going to have to perform without excuses or he's not going to survive his Presidency. I don't mean someone will do him harm but I don't think he will be doing any speaking engagements. I think he will be booed of every stage and there will be talk of impeachment. After all he has said he will do, he will have to step up and do it without excuses.

hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd and basil - Regardless, the end is the same - people don't believe the system is fair, and uniform election laws, with proper identification required, was their solution.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As if it were to be surprising, sounds like Mittens is going to take good care of his corporate buddies in the ag biz too. It should be surprising how much corporate America fleeces the national treasury from food to war and everything in between, but sadly, it's really not.

Critics complain that large industrial farms receive the majority of government handouts.

The top 10 per cent of farmers collected 74 per cent of all subsidies between 1995 and 2010, according to the Environmental Working Group, a research organisation, amounting to nearly $166bn. The bottom 80 per cent of recipients collected an average of $587 per year, while 62 per cent of US farmers did not receive any subsidies.

"We send billions of dollars to these large commercial farms which are highly profitable and highly subsidised," Don Carr, senior adviser to the Environmental Working Group, told Al Jazeera. "Direct payments are tied directly to acreage; the largest farms get the largest subsidies."

Perhaps given the power of farm lobby groups in the US, or the role played by food as a tool for expanding geopolitical clout, US Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney has called farm subsidies a matter of "national security".

To analysts like Carr, Romney's support for subsidies is ironic. "You can have people talking about the free market in every aspect of the government, except for farm policy," Carr said.

mrd — August 31, 2012 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 1:18 p.m.

I agree on the BIG IF. But will Pres Obama accomplish anything when/if reelected? Current projections show Obama has a comfortable lead in the all important electoral college - you can forget about Romney's current lead in the popular vote. However, all indications are that the Repubs will keep the House and win the Senate. However, neither majority will be anywhere near large enough to overcome a Presidential veto.

And, even if Romney does win, we'll see a repeat of Obama's first two years. The Repubs won't have the 60% needed to pass anything involving the budget.

So, unless we have a miracle, expect even less than now.

http://www.electionprojection.com/index.php

roger — August 31, 2012 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


eastwood was FUNNY. he wasn't written down, practiced or run through fifty focus groups. just got up there, and did what he does..entertained the group.

and that empty chair bit was classic!

DeeLittle — August 31, 2012 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- *However, all indications are that the Repubs will keep the House and win the Senate.*

Just on conservative leaning sites! There are many indicators that you're off base with your remark. I think it's a total crap shoot with the House. Dems have to win big time to get the majority and it very well could happen. The Senate should be retained by Dems imo (thank you Akin & others). The more the public becomes engaged with this radical right wing agenda the better chances are for the Dems.

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't know, Nails - here's a pretty neutral site that says about what I said earlier.

It'll be a major surprise if the Dems take the House back. The Pres will probably win - unless the Repubs can get their collective heads out of you know where and sell a convincing economic plan. But the Senate is wide open.

Prediction - 4 more years of the same nothingness.

roger — August 31, 2012 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Aren't politics fun? :) November will be exciting as hell. So much hangs in the balance. The thought of a red majored congress with a red Prez taboot makes any liberal/progressives head spin around. The thought of the Supreme Court moving further right is just as bad or worse.

I'm afraid of the part of the electorate who are so easily persuaded by ridiculous catch phrases such as "you didn't build that" remark. The GOP centered their convention around this taken out of context remark, and many lack the mental wherewithall to filter the difference/truth.

BTW, I take it from prior posts you might be leaning Obama at this point. Am I right?

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

I was raised a blue collar Democrat. Usually, the Dem candidate has to work hard to lose my vote. The Pres is close to doing so; his saving point is that the Repubs have done nothing to convince me they can do better.

Roseanne Barr keeps threatening to run for Pres - maybe I'll vote for her. That way, I can be sure to be able to say I didn't vote for whoever does "win." And beside - she has a fouler mouth that any soldier I ever met - life would be most entertaining with her in the Big House!!!

http://roseanneforpresident2012.org/Issues

roger — August 31, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh - my favorite Crosby, Stills, Nash tune (co-written with Paul Kantner).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpJOH4sbaw&playnext;=1&list;=PL7CBF7A34AA9AE04B&feature;=results_video

roger — August 31, 2012 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


But can't leave Neil out, so....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QOJ-M...

roger — August 31, 2012 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, that's my favorite CSN song as well, and yes, you CAN leave out Young. It's OK.

hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — August 31, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.

You certainly made a point about his posting links to other people's writing. I have a question about that. Even if you cite the source, but have no words of your own to contribute, isn't that still plagiarism?

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.

Truth be told, I think the GOP generally does quite well in promoting ideas (agree with them or not) for the betterment of the US as a whole (as in all Americans). Gender, race, ethnicity and those issues do not arise until the left point to some sort of connection (however far fetched or fabricated).

I see the Dems using this ploy to rally groups that they consider their base. I think the fact that people want to point out diversity (or lack of) at an event like the convention points out discrimination to be sure. But not discrimination by the GOP as you try to show. It shows discrimination by the left.

I have said it before, if we are supposed to be an advanced society that is blind to differences such as race, gender, sexual orientation, and the like, then why do we consistantly point these differences out?

Can't we just focus on things that actually matter?

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 1:18 p.m.

You mean the way our current president has been making excuses?

Anytime legislation he is interested in signing isn't making it out of the capitol and on his desk he plays partisan and blames republicans (regardless of the legitimate reasons for their lack of support).

And my personal favorite: He inherited the problem.

I agree. No excuses.

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey! It's Friday night & going to be a beautiful weekend.

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.
Can't we just focus on things that actually matter?

Let's see your list. We already know where you stand on abortion and access to family planning info and contraception.

How do you feel about nutrition programs for Women Infants Children [WIC] and early childhood education [Head Start] and free and reduced lunches for children who qualify? Should women get an education after a high school diploma or GED?

langenthal — August 31, 2012 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anytime legislation he is interested in signing isn't making it out of the capitol and on his desk he plays partisan and blames republicans

danabwoodley — August 31, 2012 at 8:27 p.m

That's probably because it's true. Also, if you haven't noticed, they seem to brag about it.

hawkeye — August 31, 2012 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Must-see morning clip
Daily Show correspondent Samantha Bee exposes GOP hypocrisy on abortion VIDEO

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/30/must_see_morning_clip_20/

nailingit — August 31, 2012 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


... **...** 000 OOO TESTING... **...** 000 OOO...(((((MIC ON?)))))... **...** 000 OOO

HHHHHH**MMMMM**HHHHHMMMMM**HHHHH**MMMMM

godsvoice — August 31, 2012 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*How do you feel about nutrition programs for Women Infants Children [WIC] and early childhood education [Head Start] and free and reduced lunches for children who qualify? Should women get an education after a high school diploma or GED?*

langenthal — August 31, 2012 at 8:36 p.m.

WIC is a good program, like most other public assistance, as long as there is an actual need. If the family genuinely needs the help (based upon income and family size, and not wastefully spending money on things that aren't necessities), I'm all for it.

Head Start, also a good program for kids that have a need. My youngest, who is autistic, is starting in Head Start this upcoming week.

Free and reduced lunches? That one is a bit tricky. If you already have a need, then aren't you already getting some sort of public assistance to pay for your family's sustenance? If this can't help you pay for your child's lunch, then what are you spending this assistance on? This is like recieving a double assistance.

Women getting an education after HS/GED? Just by you asking this question, I am under the impression you see me as mysoginistic. Because I have expressed views supportive of protecting life that is in the womb, and not wanting to pay for services to people that aren't a medical necessity? Are you saying that I, like all conservatives according to public opinion among the left, have declared war on women? You are either baiting me with that question, or are declaring your opinion of me.

Yes, if a woman chooses to continue their education in a college, or trade school, they should do so, just like any other American.

danabwoodley — September 1, 2012 at 1:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


#What War?
BY WILLIAM KRISTOL

The United States has some 68,000 troops fighting in Afghanistan. Over two thousand Americans have died in the more than ten years of that war, a war Mitt Romney has supported. Yet in his speech accepting his party's nomination to be commander in chief, Mitt Romney said not a word about the war in Afghanistan. Nor did he utter a word of appreciation to the troops fighting there, or to those who have fought there. Nor for that matter were there thanks for those who fought in Iraq, another conflict that went unmentioned.

Leave aside the question of the political wisdom of Romney's silence, and the opportunities it opens up for President Obama next week. **What about the civic propriety of a presidential nominee failing even to mention, in his acceptance speech, a war we're fighting and our young men and women who are fighting it? Has it ever happened that we've been at war and a presidential nominee has ignored, in this kind of major and formal speech, the war and our warriors?**

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/what-war_651279.html

mr_basil_seal — September 1, 2012 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Suite Judy Blue Eyes, for me.

kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning knd-One of the best recordings of all time, anywhere from anyone...4 way Street (CSNY)

**Ben Stein: Romney's a 'losing candidate'**

For someone who says he doesn't think he'll ever vote for a Democrat, Ben Stein sure has some harsh words for this year's Republican ticket.

"[Romney] has all around him the look of a losing candidate," the economist and actor said Thursday on Tavis Smiley's PBS program.

Stein, who made waves in May for saying he doesn't think President Obama is a very smart man, said the chief reason for the GOP nominee's woes is his lack of a strategy for economic recovery.

"Mr. Romney does not have a plan to turn things around. All he's saying, and correctly so, is that Mr. Obama said he had a plan that would work and it didn't," Stein said. "But does Mr. Romney have a better plan? If he does, we haven't seen it."

(Last September, Romney released a 59-point plan that he said would improve the economy over both the short and long terms.)

The former speechwriter for Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford went on to say he's not satisfied with Paul Ryan's approach to taxes.

"He has bought into what I think is a bit of nonsense about supply-side economics. He has bought into the idea that by cutting taxes, you automatically spur the economy. That would be wonderful if true, and it may be true, but there's no data that it's true,” he said. "And it certainly isn't true that by cutting taxes you spur the economy enough so you make up the lost tax revenue."

But even though he predicts an Obama victory unless Romney "pulls himself together," don't expect Stein to pull the lever for the incumbent this fall — or ever.

"For me, the number one issue is right to life. I don't think the Democrats are very good on the right-to-life issue," he said. "People who think of abortion as a reasonable method of birth control just are never going to get my vote."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/08/ben-stein-romneys-a-losing-candidate-133987.html?hp=l17

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mr. Basil,

Romney's latest on Afghanistan. He wants to transfer the operations to Afghan forces as soon as possible, while establishing/maintaining an environment there where terrorists will not be able to build/train for a repeat of 9/11.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/romney-ryan-obama-afghanistan/1#.UEIlqjMcP7U

I'm thinking that his position, and Pres Obama's, are fairly similar, with one major difference. Pres Obama and his timetable approach means we have to declare "mission accomplished" by the projected 2014 handover. Romney seems more focused on the end result. The problem remains - is that end result, as declared by The Pres with our three objectives for the surge: denying al-Qaeda a safe-haven, reversing the Taliban’s momentum and training the Afghan national security forces to take over - truly attainable?

And frankly, I think a Pres Romney would be more interested in Iran, and their active support of Hezbollah and other groups fighting against Israel.

Isolationism is looking better all the time. (Yes - I know - unrealistic. However....)

roger — September 1, 2012 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Republicans want to build a time machine**

*But don't be fooled: Republicans aren't just nostalgic for 1950s-style social barriers. They want to rebuild them*

Among the most unvarnished sentiments expressed at the Republican Convention in Tampa this week was the disregard for the Obama campaign’s 2012 slogan, “Forward.” The derision of propulsive movement was perfectly appropriate for Republicans, who this week drew a bright, unmistakable line around a desire that has been getting ever clearer in recent months.

What the right wants, and what they tried to build for themselves in Tampa, was a time machine.

Republicans are panting for a tricked-out DeLorean that can take them back! Back in time! To a period when the power structure was fixed and comfortable, when there were no black first ladies or black camerawomen, when loud Jewish ladies were not in charge of national political parties, back to a time when only a select few – the white, the male, the straight, the Protestant – could reasonably expect to exert political or financial or social or sexual power.

The desire to chronologically reverse our nation’s history has been the undercurrent of the 2012 election cycle and its primary debates; it’s barely been disguised in the agenda of John Boehner’s House or in state legislatures around the country.

The mission to drastically curtail women’s reproductive rights, taking aim not just at abortion but at birth control; the blocking of the Paycheck Fairness Act; objections to expanding the Violence Against Women Act; crazed locutions about rape and sluts: In word and deed, conservatives have been telegraphing their hope to return us to a moment not just before Roe, but before the birth-control pill, before the sexual revolution, before second-wave feminism hammered pesky terms like “harassment” and “equal pay” into our lexicon, to a moment when women’s bodies and sexuality and identities were men’s to define, patrol and violate at will.

The state-by-state assault on voting rights, a dizzying array of propositions designed to keep brown and black people, poor people and young people from the polls? This too is an attempt to turn back time, to return the country to a moment before the Voting Rights Act of 1965 helped ensure safe enfranchisement for African-Americans.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/01/republicans_want_to_build_a_time_machine/

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 8:10 a.m.

Nails, you're slipping. You've actually referenced someone (Ben Stein) who might know what he's talking about. Dear Rachel is probably sulking in the corner thinking you've thrown her to the curb.

Here's the Politico page that discusses the Romney plan for the economy referenced in Nails' post. As noted, it's mainly a rehash of old stuff - lower taxes, eliminate restrictions on corporations, and further curtail the power of unions. He's also treading on dangerous ground with the plan to impose tariffs on China, accuse them of currency manipulation, and otherwise "not engage in a trade war" (yeah?).

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62760.html

Where have all the adults gone? I'm actually looking back on Tricky D with some (a little) nostalgia.

CAPTCHA is lame.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Even the blind squirrel (Ben Stein) finds the nut sometimes.

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Ralph Reed rises from the ashes**

The evangelical and political entrepreneur has reestablished himself as a Republican power player

Of course, Reed didn’t tell those Christians he was being paid to help keep running sweatshops that exploited women. Instead, he told them the reforms were a trick orchestrated by the left and organized labor. Limits on Chinese workers would keep them from being “exposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ.” His company explained it was just trying to encourage “grass roots citizens to promote the propagation of the Gospel” and that many of the workers were “converted to the Christian faith and return to China with Bibles in hand.”

As for Reed, once exposed, his shameful ruse came back to haunt him when he tried to run for the Republican nomination for lieutenant governor of Georgia in 2006 — his opponent told the Marianas story in a devastating attack ad.

Reed’s was a monstrous lie by one of the monumental hypocrites of our time. Yet he marches on, Christian soldier to the end, turning the temple of faith into one big ATM. There’s a word for this in the Bible: Abomination.

Read more @

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/01/ralph_reed_rises_from_the_ashes/

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Far be it from me to argue with you nail:) but I’m pretty sure that Judy Blue Eyes was CSN.

But let’s not forget Love The One You’re With, which was by CSNY.

The big band era was before my time, but they had some really great stuff. Les Brown, Glenn Miller, Sinatra. After the 70’s, there’s been some great stuff, but the Gen X and Gen Y, don’t know what they missed. Although a few of them seem to have caught on.

kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No argument here knd. Just saying that 4Way Street is one of the best recordings ever imo. The double LP is a perfect mix of "wooden music" and electric, capturing these guys at their best.

I wonder if music will ever again attain the creative heights that took place in this era.

btw, I'm a fan of "The Chairman of the Board" myself!

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It was on the first CSN album, and was performed live on 4 Way Street, which was CSNY.

For What It's Worth.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal



And one just might argue that Deja Vu was the best CSNY release.

But the problem there is that in 1970, when released, the competition was Santana Abraxas, Jethro Tull Benefit, Black Sabbath Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath Paraniod, Deep Purple In Rock, Led Zep III, Doors Morrison Hotel, Beatles Let It Be... and a lot more.

Unless one was a "pretty rock" fan, they just sort of got lost in the shuffle.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- It's all a matter of personal taste as to favorite recordings. Music was so diverse on so many levels during that time. Sometimes memories of events relating to can influence. I could equally enjoy everything from Carole King to Zep to Arlo to Sabbath on the same day depending on the mood. So much incredible music, and so fresh.

Matter of fact I still enjoy everything from **A**rlo to **Z**ep on same day. :)

It was a thrill for me to see James Taylor & Carole King in Portland couple of years ago. They didn't disappoint!

Neil Young/Crazy Horse will be in Seattle pretty soon. Don't know if I'm going yet, but would sure like to.

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 11:04 a.m

When I was in college, I worked part time at the Sears store that used to be on Grand Ave. in P-town. Every night when it was closing time they played "Moonlight Serenade" by Glenn Miller. Great memories. That and the smell of the popcorn cooking when you walk in the door.

Also, the first album by CSN was Suite Judy Blue Eyes and was their best. Not a bad song on the whole album. As for Deja Vu, it was second best and the addition of Neil Young was a very small bump. As an individual, not so good but in a group, he complemented CSN's music.

hawkeye — September 1, 2012 at 12:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8Mu_...

A little wear & tear, but the magic is still there!

hawk-*As an individual, not so good* You have legions of followers who disagree, to include myself. But that's one of the things that makes music so special and individualized. It's whatever rattles the soul, and jars one's inner self.

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Rattle the soul? Jar one's inner self? Well, in that case ---

At the time (1970) this German group was putting out the same kind of sound, and was probably much better than Pink Floyd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CeGHhobHww&feature;=related

roger — September 1, 2012 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


My Penn State football team is in for a long year. Smacked around by Ohio University - the second half was a complete embarrassment.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for your input guys.

When something gets to be so good, it’s hard to say which is number one. I could easily make a list of 100 movies, which are different, one from the other, but in their own way, as good as they can be.

Same thing with the music. And Roger, remember “Hush” by Deep Purple. It just doesn’t get any better that that. I always liked Deep Purple and their collaboration with the London Philharmonic. A very interesting mix of the classical with the new. I listened to this over and over when I was young.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLgWiz...][1]

There are two that I remember Frank for, more than any other:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egY8rU...][2]

Didn’t have the greatest singing voice as far as I’m concerned, but he had charisma and a certain backing. Kitty Kelly covered this in her Bio of Sinatra. He was pretty much hated by the service men overseas in the 40’s, and it must have been a little hard to live with. He was widely thought to be the template of Johnny Fontaine in the “Godfather”. While he and others disputed that.

Here’s Frank in his best ever, as far as I’m concerned:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtFBRJFN3p8][3]

If you have never seen the movie “Space Cowboys” check it out. James Garner, Elliot Gould, Tommy Lee Jones, Clint E. A few others. Fun movie. Frank’s song plays a prominent role at the end. Very cool, and brings tears to my eyes.

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLgWiz...
[2]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egY8rU...
[3]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtFBRJFN3p8

kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Some prime choice cuts knd. Gratzy. It's good to know I'm not the only one in the basement that sometimes emotes tearfully over music.

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Interesting concept to curb and relieve the housing crisis. Could it work? Too much government?*

**San Bernardino Eminent Domain Fight Closely Watched By Other Struggling Communities**

Gregory Devereaux is the chief executive of San Bernardino County and its 2 million residents. At his urging, local authorities are considering a proposal that would allow local governments to exercise their power to seize private property without landowners' consent in a dramatic -- some say radical -- new way.

Governments usually use this power, known as eminent domain, to acquire private land for public purposes, such as roads or utility lines. But this plan, proposed by a San Francisco-based venture fund Mortgage Resolution Partners, calls for government authorities to seize the mortgages of underwater borrowers, paying the investors that own them a fraction of what they are owed, using money borrowed from the fund. Homeowners could then refinance with a federal loan at a much lower rate, based on what their home is actually worth instead of what they owe.

Supporters say the plan would send a supercharged bolt of energy into the housing market, spurring economic development and preventing even more of the foreclosures that have wrecked many communities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/01/eminent-domain-mortgages_n_1836710.html

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Pssst... Hey, Nails,

The Feds dropped all plans to file charges against Sheriff Joey. Seems the complaints against him couldn't be substantiated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/31/joe-arpaio-investigation-_n_1848384.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing6|dl11|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D200028

Eric Holder isn't faring too well - couldn't make anything stick against his public enemy #1, and meanwhile can't escape the crowd after him for Fast and Furious. Wonder if he makes it to the 2nd term, if The Pres wins?

roger — September 1, 2012 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Holder has no balls. I hope Obama gets someone else. Watching Arizona politics is like reading a bad comic strip.

**Bill Maher Defends Clint Eastwood (VIDEO)**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/01/bill-maher-defends-clint-eastwood_n_1849097.html

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


btw my Cornhuskers are kicking some major tail. I noticed we play you guys November 11.

I'll spot you 30! :))

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

RE: Eminent domain. Wall Street has spoken. Something says this won't go much further. We can bail the banks out, for making risky and stupid investments, but not the homeowner who bought too much house. How dare anyone think the same treatment should apply to the little people!!!

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/1091-housing/244289-wall-street-warns-against-using-eminent-domain-to-seize-underwater-mortgages

roger — September 1, 2012 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- You're most likely right about this not going further for said reason. But could this turn into a campaign issue? I bet people are running the numbers on this for a large scale fix. Not sure of the legalities and it could be government overreach. But imagine how this, in the best case scenario, could impact the nations economy. Huge!

nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

After what I saw today, you could spot me 60 and I'd walk away!!! But Nebraska faces a tough schedule between now and Nov 11; maybe if a bunch of key injuries... then 30 could be doable. But if today is any indication, PSU could have their first winless season since 1888. Maybe they can beat Navy, who also looked bad against Notre Dame.

Editor Lou better not be talking too much - his Gators are looking very mediocre against a Bowling Green team that isn't expected to contend in the MAC, much less anywhere else.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Herman Cain has spoken - there are Blacks who will vote for Romney. The polls showing 0% support are wrong; Romney supporters have jobs and aren't home when pollsters call.

http://thehill.com/video/campaign/246649-herman-cain-polls-show-blacks-voting-for-obama-because-romney-supporters-were-working

Gotta love Herman - maybe he and Roseanne Barr could figure out a way to team up.

roger — September 1, 2012 at 4:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roseanne needs to get rid of her current Veep choice - Cindy Sheehan. She's way too radical.

Some of Rosie's platform:

"The Bankers and the Federal Reserve need to be brought down. They have stolen our money, our future and the American Dream and continue to enslave us with a broken monetary system. There is no scarcity; there is manipulation of the resources. We need to end the wars, bring our troops home and our jobs back, create new Green jobs and put people back to work. We need a resource based economy."

"Wars make the stock market go up and are fueled by profits. Where one puts their money is where one puts their energy. The Military Industrial Complex is our shadow government. If we are going to bring on America the same things that we have done in other countries then we need to get up off our knees and fight against those who would take away our freedoms. War is already over. Let's work together to make war obsolete."

"The legalization of marijuana is the way to end all Drug Wars and stop the monopoly of the subsidized prison systems. Our government and corporations are getting paid every time someone goes to prison for non-violent crimes due to marijuana arrests. Drug laws need to be rewritten to make them sane and people based. We need to end the prohibition on marijuana and legalize it."

roger — September 1, 2012 at 4:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.

Thanks for the suggestion. I went out & bought it for 25 cents. Picked up a Sinatra movie too. Any others you'd like to recommend?
---------------------------
Arpaio
The investigation is separate from a federal civil rights lawsuit accusing Arpaio's office of racial profiling.

Arizona Sheriff Arpaio cleared of financial improprieties
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/01/justice/arizona-arpaio/index.html

langenthal — September 1, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger Roger Roger.. who would have thought that Rosie gets it right? I am in total agreement with her.

In order to stimulate American jobs, today I bought expensive paint brushes made in the US and put the Chinese ones back on the shelf. Yep, actually found them - at Miller Pain. Small thing we can do for our own country!

luvithere — September 1, 2012 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Financial Firms Face Subpoenas on Tax Strategy

The New York attorney general is investigating whether some of the nation’s biggest private equity firms have abused a tax strategy in order to slice hundreds of millions of dollars from their tax bills, according to executives with direct knowledge of the inquiry. The attorney general, Eric T. Schneiderman, has subpoenaed more than a dozen firms seeking documents that would reveal whether they converted certain management fees into fund investments, which are taxed at a far lower rate than ordinary income.

Among the firms to receive subpoenas are Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Company, TPG Capital, Sun Capital Partners, Apollo Global Management, Silver Lake Partners and Bain Capital, which was founded by Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee for president.

Executives at some firms said they feared that Mr. Schneiderman, a Democrat with ties to the Obama administration, was seeking to embarrass the industry because of Mr. Romney’s roots at Bain. Others suggested the subpoenas might be part of an effort to recover more tax revenue for New York.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/business/inquiry-on-tax-strategy-adds-to-scrutiny-of-finance-firms.html?emc=na

hawkeye — September 1, 2012 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE!!!!

"While Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, continues to campaign against these pending defense cuts, he in fact voted last summer for the Budget Control Act of 2011, resolving the debt-ceiling debate, that included this defense sequester."

Mittens, today in Florida facing a military crowd, vowed no cuts to defense spending and accused Obama of cutting $1T from defense (I think that's over ten years). Problem is, for Mittens and Paulboy, that number is more of Ryan's doing. Kinda like the stimulus packages, he was for them under Bush, but against them under Obama. Funny thing is, their BS seems to get traction. Are voters' memories that short or do they prefer not to see these two liars as they are? Pandering for votes is one thing, preying on a desperate people seeking relief from a depression is another. I will hold Obama to the same standard. If he starts talking chit about jobs, the economy, etc., knowing full well he hasn't a snowman's chance, I'll feel the same way towards him.

I don't watch television, so I gotta ask, isn't the Obama camp hammering away at these two?

Also, has anyone asked Mittens how he's gonna create 12 million jobs? Are Paulboy & Co, manning the government's purse strings, going to have a change of heart and allow the federal government-under Mittens of course, not Obama-to actually throw a few bucks toward that problem? Is he actually going to spend (borrow money, increase debt) to do so? If Mittens & Co plan on extracting hundreds of billions out of federal spending without touching their sacred defense contractors' money stream, where is it going to come from? BTW, that's a retorical question, we all know.

And if anyone gives a rip, Rosie is dead on. Too bad that many, until they have to kneel to the MIC and the government they set up, won't recognize it.

mrd — September 1, 2012 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — September 1, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.

Why yes. I think you would really enjoy Bonzo Goes to College. I've never seen it. But I understand the lead character may be someone you could identify with.

kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 1, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.

Amen to that. I think the government made a big mistake in providing bailouts to the big companies. The idea of "too big to fail" is absolutely absurd. They should be allowed to go under if they overextended themselves. And the folks buying more house than they could afford, lured by "adjustable rates", should have known better. Just like the banks that loaned those folks the money.

danabwoodley — September 1, 2012 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — September 1, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.

Not a bad start, luv. If we could just get all government purchases on the same page.

A majority of things purchased by the government are American mide. There is a little brand called Skillcraft, they make pens, and markers, and other such office supplies that supply a majority of military operations. They also work in conjuction with Lighthouse of the Blind, an organization that helps visually disable people with jobs. And the products are of really good quality (anyone who has used the classic Skillcraft click pen knows those things almost never die).

Unfortunately, not all things purchased by the government are USA made. When you have a chance, go see a recruiter ask for some swag. Take a look at where those items are manufactured. And they are purchased by the millions.

danabwoodley — September 1, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


All I can say is GO DUCKS!

hawkeye — September 1, 2012 at 8:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dana, I agree. Gov should buy American-made. We all should reject the Chinese (mostly) junk. We most certainly shoudl reject all the Chines fireworks our super patriots shoot off for days around the 4th of July!!

My nephew, who is painting our house, is actually quite impressed with the brushes. We only buy Miller Paint as it is a PNW store. Great products also! If one wants to, one can find US made products although it is getting very difficult. That's why we support it so heavily.

On the other hand, our 5 year old riding lawn mower, which cost a fortune, croaked after not much use. Sears is trying to weasel out of it but all accounts and internet blogs show it is a lemon. And today my 2 year old washer leaked. Also bought at Sears but this time no weaseling out of anything.
No wonder Sears is going under. Any decent places left to buy decent, long lasting things made here?

luvithere — September 1, 2012 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luv, I used to like Sears but they have really gone down hill, especially since K-Mart bought them. I bought my washer/dryer in 1989 and they are still running strong. American made Speed Queen. Of course they weren't cheap but I figured if you can keep them for 20 years or so, it was worth it. 25 years, not so bad.

hawkeye — September 1, 2012 at 9:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow - Big fire at the old Red Lion Columbia River/Thunderbird hotel - the one west of the bridge that's been closed down a few years. Four of six buildings already goners. The Fire Dept spokesman says they'll be there all day.

roger — September 2, 2012 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Why yes. I think you would really enjoy Bonzo Goes to College. I've never seen it. But I understand the lead character may be someone you could identify with.

kn_dalai — September 1, 2012 at 6:27 p.m

Why the snark? I was sincerely thanking you. I've been watching a lot of movies this summer. I apologize for the font and bold. Also, I had tried to separate the comment about Arpaio. It wasn't directed at you. I should have posted separately.

langenthal — September 2, 2012 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Desmond Tutu: Bush, Blair Should Face Trial Over Iraq**

LONDON -- Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Desmond Tutu called Sunday for Tony Blair and George Bush to face prosecution at the International Criminal Court for their role in the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq

Tutu, the retired Anglican Church's archbishop of South Africa, wrote in an op-ed piece for The Observer newspaper that the ex-leaders of Britain and the United States should be made to "answer for their actions."

The Iraq war "has destabilized and polarized the world to a greater extent than any other conflict in history," wrote Tutu, who was awarded the Nobel prize in 1984.

"Those responsible for this suffering and loss of life should be treading the same path as some of their African and Asian peers who have been made to answer for their actions in the Hague," he added.

The Hague, Netherlands, based court is the world's first permanent war crimes tribunal and has been in operation for 10 years. So far it has launched prosecutions only in Africa, including in Sudan, Congo, Libya and Ivory Coast.

Tutu has long been a staunch critic of the Iraq war, while others opposed to the conflict – including playwright Harold Pinter – have previously called for Bush and Blair to face prosecution at the Hague.

"The then-leaders of the U.S. and U.K. fabricated the grounds to behave like playground bullies and drive us further apart. They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand – with the specter of Syria and Iran before us," said Tutu, who last week withdrew from a conference in South Africa due to Blair's presence at the event.

While the International Criminal Court can handle cases of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, it does not currently have the jurisdiction to prosecute crimes of aggression. Any potential prosecution over the Iraq war would likely come under the aggression category.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/02/desmond-tutu-bush-blair-trial-iraq_n_1850079.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir;=Politics

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.

I guess no one told Desmond that the International Court already looked into and dismissed these charges?

roger — September 2, 2012 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal,

It appears that I did take your comment the wrong way. It's all about that perception thing, to which I am not immune. I do sincerely apologize for my snide remark, and thank you for your clarification. Best.

kn_dalai — September 2, 2012 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger-Not disputing you, but would you source your comment. With regards to specificity on torture, others have seen it differently on the international stage...

Last week an international tribunal ended an extensive investigation and trial into the torture allegations brought against the Bush administration. It concluded that the Bush torture team (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, Yoo, Haynes and Bybee) is guilty of war crimes.

Most Americans heard nothing about this.

Despite considerable international media coverage of this trial, especially in Asia and the Middle East, the American media have been silent on this verdict. Granted, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal’s guilty verdict was mostly symbolic, since the tribunal cannot force extradition for prosecution. However, it does move this case one step closer to being tried in the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

http://open.salon.com/blog/steven_rockford/2012/05/15/bush_torture_team_found_guilty

Again from 9:15...

*While the International Criminal Court can handle cases of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, it does not currently have the jurisdiction to prosecute crimes of aggression. Any potential prosecution over the Iraq war would likely come under the aggression category.*

I'm not saying this is the way to go, but leaning heavily towards it. Seems as though we Americans are incapable of holding our own accountable in this regard. The overwhelming majority of the American public is so far removed from war, war becomes nothing but a numbers/expense game to most.

Wondering how we would feel if a superpower invaded/occupied us for a better part of a decade under false pretenses while slaughtering well over a hundred thousound of our citizenry.

As they say, those who don't learn from their mistake are doomed to repeat them. Without accountability (to include Obama's actions of violating other countries sovereignty to engage in warfare) we are certainly in for a repeat.

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Jf7o85c4U

:)) Another iconic moment...

Someone who's rarely mentioned, but greatly loved.

The recording Mad Dogs & Englishmen makes it into my all time favorite top ten.

This tune not from Mad Dogs, but seemed appropriate. :))

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RnjWL...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOz6Mt...

Perhaps the best rockumentary ever!

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And langenthal,

While I’m at it, you did ask for suggestions. Here’s a couple, that were hardly box office smashes, but I think they are as good as can be.

The Remains of the Day. Anthony Hopkins is a very proper English butler in Darlington Hall, in the years leading up to WWII, and after. If you want sex, language and mayhem in movies then don’t bother with this one. Otherwise, a very good story. Poingant I think is the right word. Also stars Emma Thompson, Christopher Reeve and James Fox as Lord Darlington, with brief appearances by Hugh Grant.

The Dish. Australian made movie about a radio telescope and their collaboration with NASA of tracking the Apollo 11 space capsule on its way to the moon in 1969. Has some music from that era as a backdrop, like Classical Gas. Again, a fun movie as far as I’m concerned. Stars Sam Neill and Patrick Warburton.

kn_dalai — September 2, 2012 at 11:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

This was the decision rendered in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internat...

Prosecutor Moreno Ocampo notes that while some actions may have been excessive, and that a limited number of civilians (20 or less) appear to have been targeted, nothing that happened fell within the purview of the Court.

The US did not recognize the authority of this Court, and neither did Iraq. So the only direction this could have gone was against Great Britain and Poland.

roger — September 2, 2012 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks roger. It lends new meaning to "collateral damage".

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 11:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal is a farce - they decided the International Court was biased, and set up their own commission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lu...

Steven Rockford is rehashing old information, using this tribunal's decision as his basis for doing so. While I may or may not agree with what's going on in Guantanamo, what he posted in his Salon blog is less than relevant.

roger — September 2, 2012 at 11:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, to repeat- *Granted, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal’s guilty verdict was mostly symbolic, since the tribunal cannot force extradition for prosecution. However, it does move this case one step closer to being tried in the International Criminal Court in The Hague.*

Regardless, the actions of the Bush Administration were unconscionable and lessons need to be learned.

Well over 4,000 U.S. troops dead. Untold American civilians dead. Well over 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead. Hundreds of billions $$$ spent leading to our recession, done.

And for what? We need to learn from this as a people, rather than the apathy most Americans display. We screwed up in a major way, causing problems for generations to come.

No doubt we'll repeat it...

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — September 1, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.

MRD, your concerns about Mittens are not alone. The jobs he will intend to create will most likely be abroad...much like the job our own danabwoodley is doing along with thousands of others.... meaning armed forces of course.

I think we're about to witness a war of epic proportions...something which will surpass WW-II, Vietnam, Korean, Desert Storm, Iraq Conflict and Afghan War combined. God help us all if I'm right.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice music selections on the forum this week!!! Glenn Miller..."IN THE MOOD" is always a good, upbeat song to follow as well as Moonlight Serenade. Can't go wrong with CSN (&Y;).

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 1, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.

City of New Orleans(Arlo), Stairway to Heaven(Zep), of course!!!

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfxoM6...

goldenoldie, enjoy! Also a cut from my personal favorite Arlo recording, Washington County

Music really brings everyone together...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa2izLZc-qg&feature;=related

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One of my favorite Arlo songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCKgf...

hawkeye — September 2, 2012 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*"Music really brings everyone together..."*

How true nailingit...how true!!! I think we all can *and* do come together in this confusing and complex world we live in...sometimes it takes a crisis for us to realize it *unfortunately*. We're also together in the thought that we only want what's best for ourselves, our families, our community...our nation (the world). It's just getting the job done where our opinions and the decision-making process is the time when the difference shows.

Now...if the Columbian and John Hill could only join in with us and either do away with that blasted Captcha or set it up only at sign in...

Why is it when I key in the letters/numbers show, it still won't accept what I keyed??? geez Louise!!!
..

hawkeye — September 2, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.

Another good one, Hawk.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I think we're about to witness a war of epic proportions...God help us all if I'm right." -- goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 12:12 p.m.

Goldie - There is no one out there who might want to who can stand up to us and our allies militarily. My biggest fear would be of Israel deciding to go after Iran - not sure how the so-called moderates like Saudi Arabia would react. But I seriously doubt you'd see that "end of days" conflict.

What you ought to fear is the possible repercussions of Romney actually following through on his campaign rhetoric of engaging in a trade war with China (the noise about going after them over currency manipulation and imposing import tariffs). That could potentially escalate to something where everyone loses.

roger — September 2, 2012 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder why we never saw him playing this song in the movie - just a lot of crowd scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRpj9m...

roger — September 2, 2012 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIF6pN...

roger- Arlo a few years ago explaining what you asked, as well as a redux of a great song.

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Arlo was on the Johnny Cash show way back when - found this clip from the closing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi4F7h...

roger — September 2, 2012 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I take it you were thinking of the "end of days" thoughts before deciding to comment to me. I actually wasn't thinking along those lines exactly but it will definitely be different from what we're used to...IF it comes to fruition.

I agree with you in your second paragraph though...and you know who is working closely with the Chinese right now, right??? You know, that *brilliant* financial tycoon...that someone who wants a One World Order, One World Currency...someone who has broken the bank how many times with his "investments and sell offs" to other nations in order to cripple another. That same tycoon who initiated the spark in gold prices by selling millions of dollars worth so that prices would dip a bit for the smaller investors to get a bit panicky. And how many times has he done that??? That same someone who has the world financial leaders following him like a little puppy dog, listening to his every word like he's the eternal ruler. The same tycoon whose son is following in Daddy's footsteps to continue the trend...

...and the puzzle pieces continue to fit. What a perfect time to execute the final step when the world economic picture is so crappy...and now a world food crisis to boot??? How handy!!! I won't even get into crowd control and riot control when it comes to increasing funding to the military. Just remember reading about the frenzy around the time of the Great Depression when the banks wiped out the people's hard-earned savings...and food became scarce...and jobs were few...and children starved. People digging in garbage cans for food and food lines formed for what seemed to be several blocks long (Easily 350+ in line at some of the Missions in Portland when they open their doors for dinner). Beggars on every corner (hmm... sounds like what's going on now.) That's a good indication of what I believe is coming along with even poorer regulations on the mortgage industry. Mortgages are being sold to companies in India and China...and they don't have to follow US rules and regulations. They'll charge an arm and a leg for payments received even one day past the designated due date...throwing more into foreclosure and bankruptcy. And those credit card industries...heck, I don't even have to comment. I think everyone knows how they suck.

Yeah, someone will tell me "The banks won't strip you of your savings." Well, FDIC as well as NCUA only has so much they can pay the people. What happens if the dollar should fail???

I don't think it's Israel and Iran that we have to worry about...at least not yet.

Yep! Fits like a puzzle for sure. Guess I won't say too much else. I'll leave it up to the skeptics. I'm sure they'll piece apart this comment...and that's okay. I've just stuck a virtual pin in their "security bubble," so they're going to do whatever it takes to diminish such concerns. At least I'll have them thinking twice and maybe double check for that "just to make sure" reassurance in their own lives.

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ahhh...but there's one thing they can never take away from the people, Roger...and that is music!!!

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One little comment then I'm done...when I speak of that certain tycoon...I am in no way stating he is controlling what is about to come. I'm saying he's an opportunistic, self centered...*blankity blank* who is feeding off of the weaknesses of everyone in the world. Compound him and his ways with the ways of the other tyrants in the world, the "Me First" mentality of those in the elite status who forever take advantage of the hardworking class then drop the virtual bomb on on the working class with layoffs and firings. The bomb continues to pound the world as the working class must find minimum-wage part time jobs in order to support their families all while collecting welfare and government-issued medical coverage since their living-wage jobs, healthcare and unemployment has drained.

Now, with current food shortages and price hikes on just about everything imaginable, there is so the profit margin continues in favor of the elite ones who must keep their finances set...

Our military will not be able to continue to help the third-world countries much longer. They won't be able to help the allies at the capacity they're all accustomed to receiving.

Get the picture yet???

goldenoldie — September 2, 2012 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

Marketwatch says Soros made a bad decision when he dumped his gold - that he unloaded it a year or two too soon. As the article notes, smart investors unload early - to avoid taking a beating when a bull market collapses. But George jumped the gun. This article is from a year ago, and it notes gold was at an all time high of $1575/oz. Gold price today is $1688/oz.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2011-06-06/commentary/30768638_1_gold-bugs-ultimate-asset-bubble-george-soros

http://goldprice.org/gold-price.html

But I'm glad you meant Soros. At first I thought you were talking about the unnamed terminally ill oil tycoon Bilderberger.

roger — September 2, 2012 at 6:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Somebody forgot to shake the mud off their shoes before entering. These types of conspiracy theories make kooks/con men/shysters/garbage purveyors/hate mongers/clowns like Beck filthy rich. Each to their own. Next thing it'll be a desire to return to the gold standard.

I've got some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sel.......sigh..................

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/10/06/beck-revives-anti-semitic-soros-conspiracy-theo/171596

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Glenn Beck and the Gullible**

Some classic Beckisms: "This President, I think, has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture" (2009). "Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization" (2007). "I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself or if I would need to hire somebody to do it" (2005).

**With a deadpan, Beck insists that he is not political: "I could give a flying crap about the political process." Making money, on the other hand, is to be taken very seriously, and controversy is its own coinage. "We're an entertainment company," Beck says.** He has managed to monetize virtually everything that comes out of his mouth. He gets $13 million a year from print (books plus the ten-issue-a-year magazine Fusion). Radio brings in $10 million. Digital (including a newsletter, the ad-supported Glennbeck.com and merchandise) pulls in $4 million. Speaking and events are good for $3 million and television for $2 million. Over several days in mid-March Beck allowed a reporter to follow him through his multimedia incarnations, with one exception, his 5 p.m. daily show on Fox News, which attracts just under 3 million viewers. (FORBES has a relationship with that channel via Forbes on Fox.)

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0426/entertainment-fox-news-simon-schuster-glenn-beck-inc.html

nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Old news, but you might enjoy checking the links embedded in this page.

http://tvnewslies.org/html/kept_promises.html

roger — September 2, 2012 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 2, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.

According to the author, the Hague has only tried war crimes in Africa. Haven't they tried people from the former Yugoslavia, including Milosevic?

danabwoodley — September 2, 2012 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/08/ap-us-war-resister-may-appeal-in-canada-083112/

OK, another unpopular opinion.

I find it humorous that this "soldier" is quoted as saying she respects Canadian law and will comply if necessary. What about US law? You took an oath, and chose not to live up to it. Instead, you have been hiding to avoid facing the charges.

I am not trying to discuss the argument of the validity of the Iraq conflict. The point I am trying to make is that you take an oath and sign an agreement as a Soldier. If you disagree, there are other methods. There are cases where Soldiers faced charges for refusing to serve, and were let off with no sort of punishment.

But I suppose everyone is waiting for an Executive Order for amnesty like Carter signed.

So all of you "soldiers" hiding out in Canada, or wherever, because you didn't want to deploy think you are being a conscietious human being and standing up for what you think is right, bravely in the face of an over reaching government, try doing something really brave. Come home and own up. Face this government you are defying.

You took an oath, and you have failed to live up to it. There are consequences, or maybe not. Come back and give your side. Quit hiding.

danabwoodley — September 2, 2012 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you disagree, there are other methods.

And those are??...
Don't know, just asking.....

If enough people tell the gov to FO, then maybe the gov should. How many must die in the name of the military/industrial/complex? If the profit for these corporations was taken out of wars, perhaps their wars would be fewer and further between. If someone wants to die, or risk death, to secure say, Halliburton's contract, Boeing's, Raytheon's, etc, then do so. To fight for principle? Principle, morality, and nationalism is what the fools believe when logic fails. When people can't be convinced
to "serve" for reasons that don't serve the individual's interests, convince them that there's honor in killing Afghanis, or Iraqis, or whomever. Convince them there's honor in setting up and maintaining permanent bases in these places even though the locals hate your presence and try to kill you at every opportunity. Ah, imperialism. Gotta luv it even when it's breaking the bank.

mrd — September 2, 2012 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There was a Soldier assigned to Ft Lewis that chose not to deploy when ordered. He was court-martialed. It ended without a conviction. He was processed for an administrative separation.

If you really have that much of a beef with government taking certain actions, then maybe you should find someone to vote for that will not take actions to perpetuate the complexes you speak of. And also stop the actions that have already begun.

The honor you speak of isn't in the killing of someone. It is in the defense of those who cannot defend themselves. Sometimes to defend someone, you have to kill others. A sad truth in todays world.

danabwoodley — September 2, 2012 at 10:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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