Open forum, Dec 17-23

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226 comments

Comments

The canopy is where I left it last night. ;^)

Drift — December 17, 2012 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A few mall branches down in our yard...nothing else. We had some hefty gusts around 7:00 pm and around 1:30 am...probably close to 40-50 mph...

According to Clark PUD's website, 74 people on the west side of Vancouver are experiencing a power outage due to a fallen tree. I heard reports of another tree down on 36th and Division in Portland.

Hopefully nobody has any serious damage.

Sounds like we've avoided widespread damage for the most part on this one. The National Weather Service has named this winter storm...Draco.

So now...any bets on snow sticking early Wednesday morning???

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**TOAST**
[link text][1]
**Tea Party at a Crossroads**

Dispirited by congressional wrangling over the debt ceiling in 2011, Tea Party members‘ passions began to wane. Then other forces took hold to intensify the conservative movement‘s struggle to remain relevant, says Sen. Jim DeMint.

“They were discouraged by the performance of the Republicans (in budget talks) and they were intimidated by the Occupy Wall Street protest tactics, which gave rallies a bad name,” DeMint, 61, a South Carolina Republican, told the Tribune-Review.

DeMint, in office since 2005, will resign in January to become president of The Heritage Foundation.

One of the Senate‘s most conservative members, he helped ignite the Tea Party movement. Now, DeMint said, he‘s not sure whether it will continue in its present form, become part of the Republican Party or attempt to become a third political party.

“They don‘t necessarily want to be Republicans,” DeMint said. “If Republicans want to embrace the ideas of constitutional government and balanced budget, then they are fine with Republicans carrying the message and they will get behind them.

“But I don‘t think that most Tea Party people just want to get merged with the Republican Party. The jury is still out if ... you are going to see the emergence of a third party with a lot of libertarian themes.”

Sam DeMarco, 54, of North Fayette, chairman of Western Pennsylvania Veterans and Patriots United, a Tea Party organization with 500 members, said he thinks the movement has reached a crossroads.

“We originally made the decision to not form a third party and stick with the Republicans because we understood that would almost guarantee that (Democratic candidates) would win,” he said. “However, as the fiscal cliff negotiations continue and Washington Republicans are beginning to cave, that may become an option.”

[1]: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/12/16/tea_party_at_a_crossroads_116438.html

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:08 a.m.

Interesting editorial opinion piece on a website which explains ALL views, nail. Good one...8)

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ooops...my bad. I shouldn't have directed my last comment to anybody. It was meant to be a general statement. I'll try better next time...8P

..

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The trend is continuing. Yahoo headlines:

*Ind. man with 47 guns arrested after school threat*

*Bomb threat adds alarm to grief at Connecticut church*

*Police: Man cooperative after firing shots at mall*

*2 Kansas officers fatally shot outside market* (An ambush???)

...and

*Vanc. schools on alert after rumor circulates online*
(Courtesy of KATU)

Again I ask...What the *hell* is going on???

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Do they still have a "social studies" class in schools? This is where I believe kids should be exposed to religion. Yes, I know by the time they start school they would already be practicing whatever the family does/is. Social studies should expand their knowledge base.

Notice I wrote "exposed" and not taught. Unless a school is religion based I don't believe religion should be taught there.

I think the young should have a general understanding of everything from Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Vodun to belief systems that don't quite fall within the definition of religion.

Obviously, each and every religion on the planet couldn't be delved into in depth, but a general course wouldn't be too bulky.

The curriculum should take care not to present any information with favoritism, though encourage discussion. Whether a person is an atheist or a Hindu we are all affected by religion(s). IMO children should have an understanding of how and why.

Oh, and, Dave... the title of the work I'm currently editing/rewriting is *From the Attic of a Madman?.* Heh!

Drift — December 17, 2012 at 7:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie- I really thought we had reached an understanding, yet the first thing I post you comment on.

And the first thing I post you take exception with no doubt will bring name calling and attempts to attack my character. It happens every time.

There are a few posters who preen your feathers in order to keep your vitriol at bay. I'm not one of them. Try to dialogue with a poster you maintain a good rapport with. Please feel free to address them and not me.

I'm asking you once again, please turn your attention away from me.

Thanks. I think I'm not the only one who would appreciate this.

It's a bummer when well informed basement communication gets bogged own with accusations and name calling. Let's try and prevent that this week.

Please?

Sometimes avoidance is a good thing.

Apology's to the basement for having to deal with this the first day of a new week. Just trying to nip a situation in the bud that causes negative vibes for many.

....sigh

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldie- Just saw your 7:17 post. Thanks.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Gun Control Legislation From Frank Lautenberg Would Ban High-Capacity Magazines Post-Sandy Hook**

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) intends to propose new legislation to curb gun violence. (Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty Images)
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) will introduce legislation in the next Congress to ban the sale of high-capacity magazines, his office told The Huffington Post on Monday.

A longtime advocate for gun control legislation, the New Jersey Democrat has pushed similar bills in the past, most notably following the shooting of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and others in Tucson in 2010. They have failed to gather the necessary support to become law, though Lautenberg's office, like others on the Hill, feels that the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday has altered the political dynamics of the debate.

The legislation would simply reintroduce the prohibition of high-capacity magazines that existed under the federal Assault Weapons Ban from 1994 to 2004. In Tucson, the shooter Jared Loughner was able to fire 30-plus shots without having to reload. During the shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., the alleged shooter reportedly had a 100-round magazine drum. At Sandy Hook Elementary School, the alleged shooter also had high-capacity magazines.

Lautenberg's bill would be a paired-down iteration of gun control legislation for lawmakers to consider. A more ambitious proposal is set to be introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who has pledged to reintroduce the assault weapons ban the first day of the new Congress.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/gun-control-legislation-frank-lautenberg_n_2315618.html

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I live in the Lakeshore area and the wind didn't even bother to knock down my Santa Bear, although it was howling pretty good in the middle of the night.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:53 a.m

Do you think that would help anything? First off, there are already thousands of clips out there that could be used. Secondly, like the nutjob in this last shooting, he had several guns. Third, the shooting at the mall could have been done with a 9 round clip. It only takes two seconds to switch out clips.

I understand the need for legislators to attempt to do something meaningful but this is just a kneejerk reaction.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


As for the weather, I haven't surveyed the landscape yet, it's been too dark. I'll check it later. We had a little wind but I'm in a valley so most of it goes over the top of us.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye- I think of the Gabby Giffords shooting, I think a lower capacity mag would have helped lower casualties. I forget which mass murder shooting it was, (sad in and of itself) but recently one of the nuts gun jammed or he would have brought down more.

Two seconds to change out a clip could easily turn into 10 seconds and give someone time to act. Changing out clips in the midst of chaos and carnage most likely would degrade a killers efficiency time unless trained. Even two seconds would be something.

In any case, I guess the main reason for high capacity mags are less times someone has to reload when "plinking"?

Is there a decent reason for high capacity mags? I really don't know.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With close to 300 million guns in the U.S. the horse has left the barn. It might take decades to see any reasonable decline with new measures, but I think we need to start somewhere.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


From my understanding there was a gun ban, until I believe 2004.
Why was the ban lifted and remained lifted on these type of weapons?

IMO they need to reinstate the ban on semi-automatic rifles, and ban clips that carry more than 10 rounds.
Hold a "turn in" or a "buy back" of these weapons and clips, much like they have in the past.

Not the full answer by no means, but would give us a starting point.
Then they need to take a hard look at mental illness in this country. We all know that they have made some progress in this but I feel they need to do much more.

ELISI — December 17, 2012 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**No, Mr. Huckabee, It’s Not Because God Has Been Removed From Schools**

....

So, according the “reasoning” of Mike Huckabee and Brian Fischer, incidents of gun violence in schools must have been nonexistent before 1962, since that’s when God was “removed” from schools, right? Wrong. At the end of this post is a list of dozens of school shootings that occurred prior to 1962 — all committed by students, teachers, and others who presumably grew up praying in school. One of these shootings even occurred at a Sunday school — in 1886.
And how do Huckabee and Fischer explain the school shootings that have occurred at Christian schools? When 15-year-old Virginia Beach student Nicholas Elliott shot and killed his teacher in 1988 and then attempted to shoot his classmates, was it because prayer had been removed from his school? Probably not, since that shooting took place at the Atlantic Shores Christian School. [Was the 2006 shooting at the West Nickel Mines School in Pennsylvania, in which ten young girls were shot, five of whom died, because the Amish turned their backs on God?][1]

[1]: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/12/16/no-mr-huckabee-its-not-because-god-has-been-removed-from-schools/

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


[Consider Your Man Card Reissued][1]

[1]: http://www.motherjones.com/media/2012/12/gun-ads-bushmaster-mattel

Text for Bushmaster ad.....

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 17, 2012 at 7:24 a.m

Drift, I agree. Religion should not be taught at school. Teaching the children to expand their knowledge to/of other cultures and their religions is being taught.
They do not spent weeks on any given one, but touch a little on many so each child has a bit of info to make up their own minds.
Which as it should be.

At the time I was in school we didn't have the choice of learning about others as we have today.
My parents raised us in the Southern Baptist church, but allowed us at age 13 to go to other churches. I have attended many over the yrs. All churches teach basically the same, what differences there are is mainly in rules each church sets forth. Some teach the full Gospel some don't. Some churches teach to confess sins to a priest or bishop etc and some teach to confess sin directly to the Father in Heaven.
I must also say this, one doesn't have to go to church to believe, and practice their faith. Church (building) is there for fellowship with others in the same faith.

ELISI — December 17, 2012 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.

I believe we *have* reached an understanding...and I admit I bloobered @7:13am, hence the silly note afterwards...sort of an apology for that slip. I truly do find the web site you shared, fascinating and am glad you brought it to everyone's attention.

If you continue to share snippets from articles with links as I believe you will, any reference to that link will not have your name or any reference to you or any comment you make with regards to that article. My comments will strictly be about the context of that article with the understanding by you that I am not responding to you, but the article itself...and it is my understanding that you would do the same for what links I might post as well.

From hereon out, I will not address you or make reference to "nailingit" any more, my fellow forum dweller...and it is my hope that you do the same.

peace

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***I think things may be getting carried away***

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Police have arrested a man for allegedly posting Facebook threats against Los Angeles elementary schools.

Officer Venus Hall says weapons were confiscated when the man was arrested at his home Sunday afternoon by officers in the Northeast Division, an area covering east Hollywood to Glassell Park and Silverlake. He remains in the downtown jail.

The location of the arrest and information about the man and the nature of the threats are being withheld. Details on the weapons also haven't been revealed.

Students in the Los Angeles Unified School District are on winter break.

Cmdr. Andrew Smith says police are taking threats very seriously.

The arrest came two days after 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 20 children and six adults before killing himself at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn.

**Of course we don't know what he posted or why but what happened to freedom of speech?**

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I find it disgusting the Scottsdale Gun Club has families posing with Santa for holiday photos...and their guns. Anybody else feel the same way???

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/11/18/gun-club-christmas-photo-op-santa-claus-children-and-semi-automatic-weapons/

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We need to examine what mental health services are being reduced or done away with regards to states turning away from the Affordable Care Act.

As citizens, we need to hold our elected accountable for reductions in mental health services/care funding. Take a look at exchanging tax payer funded corporate welfare for increased funding in local health care. Time for our local business owners to pony up and contribute $$$ to their community, and display some of those "libertarian conservative" principles many espouse, as well as the "liberal" "good" intentioned people.

If they have enough left over from buying their elective office.

As taxpayers, are we willing to contribute to the overall health of our communities? I think we should be.

Make no mistake about it, this all boils down to politics, at both the national and local levels.
Writing our elected leaders should be part of this equation also.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.

I believe he breached his right to freedom of speech when posting threats of harm, especially when it's on one of the most popular discussion sites in the world.

He deserved to lose his guns.

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


.... The change in the American character is astonishing. And still nobody will stand up and lay blame where it belongs - in a culture that has kicked God out of our collective sight, that eternally blames cultural institutions and our most cherished principles for acts of criminality rather than moral character flaws, that refuses to recognize Evil.
....

Popular culture has made murder, rape, mayhem, hatred, and violence “cool”. Rebellion has become the noblest of acts. All this with the blessings of people like William Ayers, who has been very influential in modern education. We are creating monsters in our schools.

If people are serious about stopping this sort of thing they will take a number of steps:

1. Homeschool. Take away the power of the radicals in the classrooms. Makes your kids safer, too.

2.Back Right to Work legislation for the public sector. Teacher’s unions have helped cement much of this in place. As long as we have group think in the classrooms we will never see the end of this.

[http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A2364503&xgs;][1]

[1]: http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A2364503

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*From hereon out, I will not address you or make reference to "nailingit" any more, my fellow forum dweller...and it is my hope that you do the same.*

I can't refer to myself any longer...say it ain't so!!! :)

You know it isn't going to last goldie, but the thought is nice. ty for that.

Maybe with regards to us and all, when addressing a person, if you can't say something nice, or at least half heartedly decent with a taste of sarcasm, :) than better left unsaid.

My opinion.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


YEA! We can post vids again! Thank you John Hill!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw3rPL...

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 9:42 a.m.

That's a pretty bold statement without knowing what he actually posted.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dammit. I was wrong. Why is Basil's link clickable and not others?

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

I hope no one vandelizes your Santa. I see so many times people do a great job of trying to get into the spirit of Christmas only for it to be torn down by some senseless idiots... I put our lights up rt after thanksgiving this year, what a job.. It was nice to have a couple of my grown children all of 22 yrs old help out.. It was a real family project... Lots of bosses and one Indian, me..LOL

vanwadreamer — December 17, 2012 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.

I'm just copying the url, then pasting at end of article, then cliking 'Link' menu option, deleting the http// (otherwise it dupes and screws up the link) , then pasting the already copied url.

So, basically, the antiquated forum software that the C website has been using can't parse the text and automatically create the link. Maybe someone should ask them why they are paying an off-site and out of state corp to run their website rather than hire a local IT qualified tech.

Unlike virtually any other CMS, forum, social media software on the web.

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


,,,, missed one step.....

1 I'm just copying the url,

2 then pasting at end of article,

3 THEN, Highlight the URL

4 then cliking 'Link' menu option,

5 then deleting the http// (otherwise it dupes and screws up the link) ,

6 then pasting the already copied url.

THEN, don't forget.....

7 figure out the Capcha......

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa @ 10:29- I put mine up Thanksgiving weekend as well. It was nice to get it out of the way, in spite of a higher electricity bill......I think. It sure looks nice when it all gets done.

BTW happy holidays vanwa, and to all basement dwellers the same.

Ho Ho Ho....

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal- Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure if I'm smart enough to do all that, but before posting a link next time I'll give it a shot. Man, a new form of digital processing, forum style. I e-mailed John Hill again this morning about current tech problems.

God help me! :)

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw3rPL...

frobert — December 17, 2012 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I put mine up a couple of days before turkey day (it was great weather) but didn't turn them on until after the weekend. We switched over to LEDs (ice cycle style)and I really don't notice it in the electric bill. Also, the bulbs last forever. I tried it a few years back with C-7 LED bulbs but the local squirrels were cutting the wires and stealing the bulbs. I guess because they weren't hot and they were shiny.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Testing the 'tubes''''

Will this work?

Embed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev-UNkEoQ9w

Link
[Get Ready for Obama's Third Term as President in 2012][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev-UNkEoQ9w

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 11:07- Well said, for once we agree.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.

Maybe it is time to ask J Hill why the local paper of record can't get their paid for corporate IT support to actually provide a working platform......

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.

+1

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


[‘Anarcho-Capitalists’ Seen as Cousins of the ‘Patriot’ Movement][1]

President Obama is planning to overthrown the Constitution, implement socialism, and seize a third term in office.

According to Stansberry, Obama won’t even have to use force to do it. Instead, the president plans to buy his third term with untold profits gained from mining America’s vast shale oil deposits, which will lead to an era of extraordinary prosperity unlike anything America has seen before.

“All of this new wealth,” Stansberry says, “will seem like a gift from the Prophet Muhammad to the administration of Barack Obama.”

And his supporters will eat it up. Once the black gold really starts flowing, Stansberry claims, the president will execute a Hugo Chavez-like power grab, distributing money and favors to friends, cronies, and political allies, who in return will cheer for him in the streets as he seizes an unconstitutional third term — and, possibly, even a fourth — in office. During his reign of terror, Obama will replace America’s market economy with a socialist dictatorship and “punish and tax those who work hard,” using the wealth they create to “buy favors and luxuries for millions of Americans … who have done nothing to earn it.”

America, of course, will be ruined.

Stansberry is not the only ultra-libertarian to promote such ideas. One of his most prominent fellow travelers is Doug Casey, an antigovernment “investment guru” who on Nov. 29 told subscribers to his newsletter that being a taxpayer in America today is analogous to “being a Jew in Germany in the mid-1930’s.”

[http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/12/12/anarcho-capitalists-seen-as-cousins-of-the-patriot-movement/][2]

[1]: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/12/12/anarcho-capitalists-seen-as-cousins-of-the-patriot-movement/
[2]: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/12/12/anarcho-capitalists-seen-as-cousins-of-the-patriot-movement/

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:25 a.m

I guess he has four years to make this all happen. I can't wait!

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A wee bit on Light Rail and Public Transportation (and probably related to 'that bridge'):

Bill McKibben and Lawrence J. Hanley

**Think About the Transportation Sector**

"Think about the transportation sector, which accounts for 27 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, mostly from cars and trucks. Tailpipe pollution is also a major source of asthma and other illnesses -- the transport sector contributes 80 percent of the harmful air pollutants that cause 1.3 million premature deaths each year. Road fatalities claim 33,000 lives per year on average, making traffic accidents the number one killer of people under 34 in the U.S. And traffic congestion is known to elevate stress levels and reduce quality of life for millions.

We can drive more fuel-efficient cars, of course, and President Obama deserves praise for raising mileage standards (though if he approves the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline he will wipe out all those gains). But much bigger cuts in emissions will come if we scale up public transport systems. A recent poll conducted by the Natural Resources Defense Council suggests that this would be popular with the public, 59 percent of who believe that the U.S. transportation system is "outdated, unreliable and inefficient." Americans also want to be less dependent on cars. Today, 55 percent prefer to drive less, but 74 percent say they have no choice, and 58 percent would like to use public transportation more often, but it is not convenient or available from their home or work.

The U.S. therefore needs a 3-step mass transit program to help our communities thrive, protect our climate, and promote human health.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/think-about-the-transport_b_2247048.html][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/think-about-the-transport_b_2247048.html

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


pt2

The U.S. therefore needs a 3-step mass transit program to help our communities thrive, protect our climate, and promote human health.

Step 1: Stop the budget cuts that are decimating public transit systems across the United States. Since 2009, approximately 85 percent of public transit systems have raised fares or cut service, and thousands of workers in the industry have been laid off. These cuts are hurting ordinary people who rely on public transit to get to work, school, medical appointments and to take care of family members. This is happening at a time when more riders are using mass transit as an alternative to driving.

Step 2: Redirect federal investments in ways that massively expand and improve the U.S. transit system. We need to bring quality public transport systems to the 57 percent of the public who today have limited or no access to mass transit and therefore rely on cars and taxis to get around. This will require shifting public money towards building new bus, subway and rail systems. If mass transit investments rose steadily, it would provide efficient, quality transport services, and reduce emissions and harmful pollution at the same time. Investing in transit is also a good way to create jobs in the U.S. -- for every billion dollars spent on transit investments 36,000 Americans secure a good job.

Step 3: Make mass transit free, or reduce its cost dramatically, by taking the money we waste now on fossil fuel subsidies and redirecting it towards our transit systems. Senator Bernie Sanders has identified more than $113 billion in fossil fuel subsidies that can be eliminated over the next decade; that could fill fareboxes, which in turn would fill our buses and trains."

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/think-about-the-transport_b_2247048.html][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/think-about-the-transport_b_2247048.html

mr_basil_seal — December 17, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The hacking collective known as Anonymous renewed their war on the Westboro Baptist Church today. After the haters from the infamous church posted their intentions to picket the funerals of the twenty children killed in the shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, Anonymous responded by re-posting the personal and professional information for members of the church on the Internet. Now the general public can contact the church members directly and tell them what they think about people who would desecrate the funerals of murdered children.

Westboro Baptist Church has been irritating Americans for years with venom filled message about their demented version of God. According to the many closely related and intermarried members of the Phelps family who make up the majority of the congregation of the so-called church, God enjoys killing children and soldiers. They constantly proclaim God hates homosexuals and plans to destroy America for not following the Westboro Baptist Church’s twisted version of Christianity. The incredible obsession with homosexuality expressed by Fred and family seems to many as a sure fire case of “thou dost protest too much.”

Anonymous has been after the Westboro Baptist Church for several months now, hacking their websites repeatedly. Recently, they accused the church of creating a fake letter from the hacking group in order to trick other hackers into attacking the website. Anonymous warned their supporters the church planned to harvest internet addresses and sue people. Suing people is apparently the primary activity of the Westboro Baptist Church when they aren’t screaming hate at funerals.

Of course, Westboro denied the charges and taunted Anonymous as incompetent hackers. They claimed their website was protected by God. Big mistake. A few days later, while a Westboro spokeswoman was boasting about how the church foiled Anonymous on a radio talk show, an Anonymous spokesman called in and hacked the church’s website in real time on the air.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


***part 2***

Hopefully saner heads will prevail and nothing terrible will occur if the Westboro Baptist Church shows up in Newtown, Connecticut. The State Police made the extraordinary decision to assign a trooper to each of the victim’s families to prevent unwelcome idiots from tormenting them and to protect their privacy.

It is hard to imagine what kind of person would attend the funerals for these children and promote the hate filled message of the Phelps family and their followers. While we certainly do not condone illegal activity, it is hard not to root for Anonymous as they take it to these sad, pathetic excuses for human beings from the Westboro Baptist Church. If the Church’s website is offline forever, it wouldn’t be a moment too soon for most Americans.
Read more at [http://www.inquisitr.com/440545/anonymous-hacks-the-westboro-baptist-church-posts-all-their-personal-information/#kMELaloR2d2P5sBT.99][1]

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

I had the pleasure this past week to visit the cap of Cali, Sacramento for some Family stuff. On the way home we ran into issues just a few miles N of Redding on the freeway that had to shut it down for about 5 hrs due to an accident. What was interesting was they didn't update the Highway information line which would let people know if there are any issues on a particular road like chain requirements and "ROAD CLOSURES" so naturally we ran right into it... But as we sat there a guy walked by who we asked when things might clear up. His company had an overturned tanker 30 miles N and he gave us a pretty good timeline... He also said the Cal Tran hwy system works a very Skeleton crew on weekends so updating this accident might not happen due to the budget cuts... He said Cal Tran might not even update it all day...And this is a very important HWY.......We eventually got back on the road and made it home...

When listening to the local radio station down there they said California was most likely to go through what they called a walking Bankruptcy maybe even this next year....Pretty interesting listening...

vanwadreamer — December 17, 2012 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.

If I was just going by the comment you had posted at 9:34 am, then yes it would be a pretty bold statement. However...

I took the time out to check out the article in its entirety and formed my own conclusion based on the fact that if they hadn't found actual evidence, they'd only detain him not arrest him. They have set bail at $500,000 as well.

As far as I'm concerned, age and level of maturity play a factor in this young man's capability of gun ownership.

I still stand by my original statement. He should not own guns as long as he's throwing out such threats.

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as I'm concerned, age and level of maturity play a factor in this young man's capability of gun ownership.

I still stand by my original statement. He should not own guns as long as he's throwing out such threats.

goldenoldie — December 17, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.

There you go again. According to the "full article", he was arrested at his Father's home and nine guns were confiscated in THAT location. NO guns were found at HIS home. Also, it wasn't reported whether the guns were his or his Father's or whether the guns were locked up or not.

Seems like someone is making some huge assumptions. Also, I posted the full article as it was presented.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- Glad you're safe. Budget cuts hurt. We need infrastructure investment, using American made products and utilizing American workers. Jobs that by nature can't be outsourced.

Maybe new Senate rules will address this. The infrastructure bill was one of many this filibuster record breaking Senate minority has blocked. Great bang for the buck for investing right now.

I have relatives in Minnesota who barely missed that bridge collapse several years back.

We need to move forward...

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**REPORTS: NBC Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel Is Missing In Syria**

Turkish media is reporting that veteran journalist Richard Engel, NBC's chief foreign correspondent and Middle East bureau chief, and his Turkish colleague Aziz Akyavaş are currently missing in Syria.

Turkish newspaper Hurriyet reports that Engel and Akyavaş haven't been in contact with NBC News since Thursday morning.

[link text][1]

Lets hope he and his friend are found quickly and are safe.

ELISI — December 17, 2012 at 1:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal



**Senate Filibuster Reform Closing In On Majority**

WASHINGTON -- Advocates of what's come to be called the "talking filibuster" are closing in on the majority needed to reform the rules, according to a whip count compiled by The Huffington Post, based on interviews with Democratic senators and with reform advocates who have spoken with senators. Cross-checking the list with prior voting records and public statements indicates that Democrats could lock up as many as 52 votes by this week, when they are expected to introduce a rules reform package to be voted on in the new year.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/senate-filibuster-reform_n_2313233.html][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/senate-filibuster-reform_n_2313233.html

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 1:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Richard Engel is my favorite foreign correspondent. A great guy and tops in his profession.

Look for Rachel Maddow to have an informative segment tonight. Engel is a regular on her show and a friend.

Best of luck to Mr. Engel. I hope this isn't more heartbreak on the horizon.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Concerning Richard Engel, NBC is enforcing a media blackout for safety concerns.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Something to ponder-

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

and an op-ed by the Australian Prime Minister after a visit to the US-

"There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back."

mrd — December 17, 2012 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks mrd. After 30+ years in this country, I am still astounded by the gun culture here. Armed to the teeth and the solution to all. I just don't get it.
I don't think we can ever ban or have stringent guidelines like the Aussies, but we have lost all common sense when it comes to guns. The background check is a joke. And who really needs an assault weapon to hunt Bambi, hm?

However, some gun control is just the beginning. We really do need to examine what we do for the mentally ill or even just for troubled people, as not every troubled person is actually mentally ill fitting a diagnosis. We also need to teach people how to interpret warning sign - and take away the stigma of telling someone about these warning signs. Seems, in the recent massacre, the warning signs actually were there, but nobody put it together. And until we see mental illness as the same as physical illness, we tend to assign blame or we shun.

luvithere — December 17, 2012 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another part of the problem-all of us. Ex, as we rail against big oil, how many of us have their stocks in our retirement funds? And like the returns?

THen there's this:

FORTUNE -- "Do you know who owns more than a 6% stake in the maker of .223 Bushmaster rifles, like the one used last Friday to murder 20 first graders and seven adults in Newtown, Connecticut? California public schoolteachers.

The company in question is Freedom Group, a privately-held firearms conglomerate formed by private equity and hedge fund group Cerberus Capital Management. Cerberus created the platform in April 2006 via the acquisition of Bushmaster, after which it added another 10 makers of firearms, ammunition and accessories (including Remington, Marlin Arms and Barnes Bullets).

The California State Teachers' Retirement System (CalSTRS) committed to invest a whopping $500 million into a $7.5 billion Cerberus fund that has helped bankroll Freedom Group. That means that it effectively could own a 6.67% stake in the gun maker, which filed to go public in late 2009 before pulling the offering in early 2011. In fact, the figure could be even higher since CalSTRS also committed $100 million to a $1 billion predecessor fund, which likely made the original investment."

in spite of their fund's mandate--

"Non-economic factors will supplement profit factors in making investment decisions. Non-economic factors are defined as those considerations not directly related to the maximization of income and the preservation of principal. The consideration of non-economic factors is for the purpose of ensuring that the Retirement System, either through its action or inaction, does not promote, condone or facilitate social injury."

As nail would say, sigh.......

mrd — December 17, 2012 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 17, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.

As I recall, the rifle wasn't used, it was left in the car. Regardless, does it really matter what the brand is and who owns stock in what company?

I don't think so.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, Bushmaster also makes weapons for Law enforcement and military (NATO CERT.) applications.

hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"As I recall, the rifle wasn't used, it was left in the car." According to this article, it was, but I've not seen anything else to contradict it.

"Regardless, does it really matter what the brand is and who owns stock in what company?"
To me, there's an irony, even hypocrisy, to financially enable a corporation while, at the same time, detesting, or at the least, ignoring their actions and/or the results of either. How can one whine about a corporation's actions in the name of profit while essentially doing the same thing? Just me....

"BTW, Bushmaster also makes weapons for Law enforcement and military (NATO CERT.) applications.
Perhaps they'd not be such an attractive investment if their sales where limited to those markets. Just sayin'....

mrd — December 17, 2012 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another down side to this latest school shooting is that folks with Asperger's syndrome, or other disorders associated with Autism will be unfairly stigmatized. I haven't heard that discussed in the punditry mix. Maybe too soon given events.

nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 17, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.

I have no doubt that you presented the article as it was when you read it, but it was updated and I provided the information I had discovered including the bail, hawkeye. There's more to the story than just what you had read. Even checking the updates on this story, I have also read his comments he made on FB (updated by AP at 10:06 pm @ ktsp.com)which he claimed was in jest...but he'd said them and now he's paying the price for such an immature and poor choice of words.

Does it matter who's guns they were? He had open access to them at his father's house. As I'd said before, he made the irresponsible choice to post what he posted. Now he's paying the price...as is his family members.

I still stand by my statement.

goldenoldie — December 18, 2012 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Richard Engel Freed In Syria After Kidnapping (VIDEO)**

NEW YORK -- Richard Engel, NBC's chief foreign correspondent, was freed Monday from capture in Syria following a firefight, five days after being kidnapped.

NBC News president Steve Capus said in a statement Tuesday that Engel, 39, and his crew were freed unharmed after being taken by an unknown group. "We are pleased to report they are safely out of the country,” Capus said.

"It was a traumatic experience," Engel said Tuesday morning, during an appearance with his crew on the "Today" show from Antakya, Turkey. Engel appeared alongside producer Ghazi Balkiz and photographer John Kooistra.

"We're very happy to be here," Engel said. "We're in good health. We're OK. Everyone was great. NBC was fantastic in informing our families, keeping people up to date, keeping the story quiet."

"While we're obviously very happy, there are many people who are still not at liberty to do this kind of thing," Engel continued. "There are still hostages. There are still people who do not have their freedom inside Syria. We wish them well."

An NBC News account noted that Engel's captors did not request a ransom since detaining Engel and the crew last Thursday.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/richard-engel-freed-syria-kidnapping_n_2315141.html

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Richard Engel and crew have been released and are now safe.

goldenoldie — December 18, 2012 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops... I see someone else beat me to it!

All's well that ends well!!!

goldenoldie — December 18, 2012 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Richard Engel Freed In Syria After Kidnapping (VIDEO)*

Excellent! Great news....we needs some..glad he and crew are alright.

ELISI — December 18, 2012 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


:)

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Someone got on my last nerve yesterday about guns and what has been happening lately with all the killings.

Now, I am going to say a few things here, in hopes that any of you guys can either show me that I am right on this or if I am wrong.

1.Certain semi-automatic guns were on a gun ban, that ban was lifted around 2004.

I ask why was it lifted? Who do we blame for it being lifted and never replaced?
I blame the elected since they make the laws.

2. The shooter in Newtown used hollow point.

Why is this ammo readily available to the public? What possible reason does any private citizen have to use such ammo? Certainly not for hunting game, not much would be left if one did use it.

3. People keep saying guns kill people.

Wrong IMO, people kill people. It takes a human behind the trigger to make the gun work, does it not?

If guns kill people then why is it that no one dies at a gun show?

I am all for banning semi-automatic rifles, and clips that hold more than 10 rounds.
If we ban all guns, what about those who hunt to help feed their families? Would banning guns mean only LEO's, Military, and criminals will be left that carry?
If we ban all guns then what else will follow?
Bows and arrows, knives, cars, poisons, rocks, baseball bats, clubs, electric nail guns, chain saws, etc etc the list goes on.

In the end, I blame our elected, by not keeping the ban on these kinds of weapons. I blame them also for not understanding or is it caring that as a nation we have a real problem with unchecked, untreated mental illness.

ELISI — December 18, 2012 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think you hit it there, Elisi.

luvithere — December 18, 2012 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Pedant- magazine, not clip -pedant.

The tube magazine (not a box magazine) in the common .22 cal semi-auto rifle will hold ~20 rounds.

Drift — December 18, 2012 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A Rossi model 92 (.357/.38 sp.) lever action rifle will hold 10 rounds in the tube. The carbine can be fired just as fast as the lever can be worked.

Hollow points or wad cutters should be used so the bullet tip doesn't discharge the primer of the next round in the tube, causing an unwelcomed event.

Drift — December 18, 2012 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If a person keeps a handgun for self defense hollow points are a good thing in my opinion. Less apt to blow through walls and injure someone not intended, and at the same time produces more stopping power than traditional ammo.

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What we don't need are so-call "news" organizations suppressing discussion/the day's events.

Amazing journalistic integrity and foresight from our friends at Fox.

**Fox News Execs Squashed Talk Of Gun Control After Newtown Massacre: Report**

Rupert Murdoch may have become a vocal advocate of increased gun control in the wake of the massacre in Connecticut. Just don't tell that to Fox News.

The media mogul loudly called for a renewed push for tighter gun laws after the murders at Sandy Hook Elementary. Many of his papers followed suit. The New York Post's front page on Monday blared, "ENOUGH!" The Sun cried, "END THE LUNACY."

However, New York magazine's Gabriel Sherman reported on Monday that top **Fox News executives explicitly barred people from discussing the topic.** According to Sherman, the edict came from David Clark, the man in charge of weekend coverage, as well as Michael Clemente, the powerful vice president for news, who backed Clark's ruling that it was too soon to talk about guns. **"We were expressly forbidden from discussing gun control," one source said.**

Fox News has traditionally not been the friendliest place for gun-control advocates. Both network chief Roger Ailes and host Sean Hannity reportedly have permits to carry concealed weapons in New York.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/fox-news-gun-control-sandy-hook-newtown_n_2318431.html

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Fox News has traditionally not been the friendliest place for gun-control advocates. Both network chief Roger Ailes and host Sean Hannity reportedly have permits to carry concealed weapons in New York. nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.

That's really amazing. It's quite impossible to get a carry permit in New York. You have to know somebody to get it.

What really bugs me is the constant knee-jerk reaction to current events by our elected "leaders".

Riddle me this, if the ban of 1994 would have stayed in effect and these events still happened, who or what would they be blaming instead of magazine size?

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With regards to hollow points. I have a S/W .357 Mag I bought more than 30 years ago. At the time I lived in an apartment and always kept it loaded with .38 Special light load hollow point ammo out of consideration.

I think more than most gun owners are smart and considerate enough to regulate themselves when it comes to public safety, but no doubt there's a % who are idiots.

How about a common sense litmus test before buying? In addition to mandatory criminal/mental health background checks, ask a few questions that speak to a psychological profile. Even this I might have a problem with...I don't know.

Mandatory gun safety training would be a start and at the same time create jobs....

Maybe one should have to demonstrate competency before leaving the store. Can you hit what you aim at type thing.

Should we look at the number of guns & ammo allowed to an individual?

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 17, 2012 at 4:26 p.m. **There you go, mrd. That should make you happy?**

U.S. private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management is selling its investment in gunmaker Freedom Group, whose AR-15 rifle was used in a U.S. school massacre last week, following pressure from a major investor.

The California State Teachers' Retirement System (CalSTRS) said on Monday it was reviewing its investment with Cerberus in the wake of Friday's shooting in Newtown, Connecticut which claimed 27 lives, including 20 school children.

CalSTRS, the second largest pension fund in the United States, had invested $751.4 million with Cerberus by the end of March 2012, according to its website.

Cerberus said on Tuesday it would hire a financial adviser to sell its interests in Freedom Group and return the proceeds to investors.

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 17, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.

I am quite concerned about possible backlash against those, especially children with Asperger's syndrome. I have elected to keep my son with Asperger's home from school for the two days of school prior to vacation, and hopefully this irresponsible journalism will blow over before school resumes. I will share something my son told be recently.

"When I grow up I want to work in Autism awareness, not how to recognize it, I want everybody to know that we are just people"

frobert — December 18, 2012 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert - have you read up on what they are considering on doing with the Asperger's syndrome?plink textp

soapbox4u — December 18, 2012 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal



fro, for you.

NEWTOWN, Conn.—In stockpiling ammunition, smashing his computers and killing his mother as she slept, Adam Lanza undertook considerable preparation before shooting up an elementary school on Friday, a former FBI profiler said.

"He didn't just snap. This takes a lot of planning," said Mary Ellen O'Toole, who worked for 15 years in the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit where she studied psychopaths and helped capture killers.

O'Toole retired in 2009 and has no direct connection to the case.

Investigators had hoped Lanza's computers would shed some light on what caused him to massacre 20 first-graders and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary, a school he once attended. But the 20-year-old reportedly butchered his computer's hard drives with a hammer or screwdriver, according to ABC News.

Still, the FBI's Computer Analysis and Response Team has been working around the clock on the case and could make progress despite the damage.

"The FBI is pretty good, we can pull stuff off anything," O'Toole said.

O'Toole still assists law enforcement and has written a book titled "Dangerous Instincts." She says the Sandy Hook shootings are worse than any case she has dealt with before.

"I have not seen a case with callousness of this extreme," O'Toole said of Lanza's shooting rampage. "It's off the charts."

Multiple reports have painted Lanza, who lived alone with his divorced mother, as being socially awkward but very intelligent, especially when it came to computers.

O'Toole said the way Lanza carried out his killings suggested a high measure of control, including damaging the computers.

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


pt2

"His computers were very important him. They were a window to his world," O'Toole told Yahoo News. "He didn't want them to survive. He knew that they would give insight into him and didn't want people to have it."

***Friends and family of Lanza's mother, 52-year-old Nancy Lanza, have said she dedicated her life to helping her son, who reportedly had Asperger's syndrome or other mental health issues.***

***O'Toole said people with Asperger's aren't known to commit such violence and that too much is being made about Lanza's mental health.***

***"It's time we stop putting out the mental health issue as an excuse that he didn't know what he was doing," she said.***

Lanza brought three guns into the school, all owned by his mother. He killed his victims with a high-powered semi-automatic rifle, but he also carried two pistols, one of which he used to take his own life. Police say he sprayed hundreds of bullets inside the school and had considerably more left over to use.

Shooting his mother while she slept and preloading numerous rounds of ammunition into the gun clips signals that Lanza was on a mission, O'Toole said.

"He wanted to accomplish maximum lethality," O'Toole said. "He was not out of touch with reality. I think he put some security measures in place so he wouldn't be stopped."

Which unfortunately meant choosing the most helpless of victims, she added.

"If you pick older people you are going to have some blowback," O'Toole said. "He didn't want people to interfere. When people take security measures like that, you know what you are doing is wrong."

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


soapbox4u — December 18, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.

The Federal Government made that change a couple of years ago. We were somewhat concerned that it would cause changes in his education. Our fears were soon put to rest. So no DSM-V designation change doesn't concern me.

frobert — December 18, 2012 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 11:04- Sounds like your boy is wonderfully motivated and has a great sense of self.

The media needs to have some sort of autism disclaimer built into their news about this. With an event so highly publicized, unbalanced reporting could scar the autism community for a long time.

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.

My guess is that it will come out that he did not have Asperger's syndrome, but that is what his parents told people. Would you want to tell people that your extremely intelligent son was a paranoid schizophrenic or a paranoid narcissist?

frobert — December 18, 2012 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Coupled together, you have most of the answers to all the "why" questions about mass shooting.

couple this-

In the widely circulated post-Connecticut piece "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother", Liza Long describes her appeal to a social worker for advice on how to deal with her teenage son Michael's mental illness, which she reports is occasionally manifested in life-threatening violence. The answer, quite simply, is "to get Michael charged with a crime".

"I don't believe my son belongs in jail..." But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people." According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in US prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006.

along with this-

As for the ease of procuring weapons in the Land of the Free that facilitates the domestic orgy of violence, the Washington Post has offered a chart depicting UN figures for gun-related murders in 32 developed nations, accompanied by the following summary:

The United States has by far the highest per capita rate of all developed countries. According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The US gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.

and this-

As for the practice of over-imprisonment as a source of capital, it is useful to review attorney John W Whitehead's analysis earlier this year:

"In an age when freedom is fast becoming the exception rather than the rule, imprisoning Americans in private prisons run by mega-corporations has turned into a cash cow for big business... Today, as states attempt to save money by outsourcing prisons to private corporations, the flawed yet retributive American "system of justice" is being replaced by an even more flawed and insidious form of mass punishment based upon profit and expediency."

mrd — December 18, 2012 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Riddle me this, if the ban of 1994 would have stayed in effect and these events still happened, who or what would they be blaming instead of magazine size?

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 9:23 a.m.

I don't think there is a magic bullet type thing to solve the unexpected mass murder scenario. If someone wants to do it bad enough they'll find a way. But if we put some common sense restrictions/requirements in place, maybe it'll be a little safer for our kids, kids, and those that follow.

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert @ 12:40 PM: I have to step in and share my 2 pennies to offer a respectful challenge to your theory.

This young man received special ed services when he was in school, I'll wager. He received those services based on his autism spectrum disorder diagnosis. He may have been brilliant, but his social skills deficit would have made him eligible, at least in my world. According to a relative, his mom was in a frequent battle for appropriate services from the school district, which may have prompted the home schooling.

(Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped from the DSM V in May of 2013 in favor of the "spectrum" diagnosis).

He very well may have developed a psychotic disorder since, I will agree. Doctors are hesitant to diagnose that too precipitously because it is a kiss of death label and you cannot drop it easily. He would not have had it as a youngster. I will guarantee that. I don't know of a psychiatrist living who would hang that on a kid so soon in his development. Very, very rarely. Maybe.

Who knows whether this made it on a doctor's radar yet, but this young man had definite mental health issues that were way beyond the neuro-developmental disorder that is autism.

Yep. I also agree that autism is a less toxic label than schizophrenia and parents may want to emphasize that because of the reduced stigma.

End of lecture. I apologize to you profusely for it.

manthou — December 18, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 18, 2012 at 1:58 p.m.

Part of my reasoning is that no official diagnosis has yet been reported, this coupled with the fact that the neighbor told reporters that he was being medicated for Asperger's, and people are not generally medicated for Asperger's, but are for personality disorders.

frobert — December 18, 2012 at 2:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert: Got it. Get it. Thanks. :)

manthou — December 18, 2012 at 2:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Got some spare reading time?

Then I highly recommend this New Yorker article. It is about prosecutorial misconduct in the Big Easy, but the real eye-openers are how this smart forensic linguist uncovered the true identities of the sock puppet trolls.

Fascinating story:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/how-forensic-linguistics-identified-online-trolls-in-new-orleans.html?mbid=social_retweet

manthou — December 18, 2012 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 3:04- Sock puppets gone wild!

I learn something everyday..."fender lizard"....:)))

nailingit — December 18, 2012 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 18, 2012 at 3:04 p.m.

Yea, fender lizard..... funny stuff

Kinda boils down to "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", huh?

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: I loved that nickname, too. Never heard of it. I will use it!

How do you like Madore's antics already? This is a man who is not used to being told NO.

manthou — December 18, 2012 at 4:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 18, 2012 at 4:25 p.m.

Actually, I was hoping that the "C" would post a picture of him stomping his feet. I really don't trust the guy, anybody that smiles that much is hiding something.

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye: Those Clark County Commission meetings are gonna be fascinating. The reporters will start fighting over this beat. :) I feel sorry for Steve Stuart (well, maybe not). Who I really feel sorry for is Bill Barron. He will have his hands full with Mielke's brain farts and Madore's sense of entitlement. Frick and Frack are my nicknames for the pair.

nailingit: Did you read the NRA's statement in response to the Sandy Hook tragedy? Took 'em long enough. They claim they were silent out of respect for the families, but I think they were waiting to see which way the wind blew. Now that the writing is the wall, they claim this:

*"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again," the statement said. An NRA spokesman did not immediately respond when asked to elaborate on what the contributions might entail.*

Hooray for the NRA! What "meaningful contributions" do you think they have planned?

So sad: takes the slaughter of these precious, innocent children to finally get their attention.

manthou — December 18, 2012 at 7:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm wondering why the NRA should be expected to make a statement. Heck, a contribution (any) for that matter.

Will someone please explain to me the connection. Sometimes I'm a little slow on the take up. It's "Drift" for a reason.

Drift — December 18, 2012 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Hey, any of you use Instagram? BEWARE This from C-Net***

Imagine this: you're at a beach in Hawaii, snapping photos of your family having the time of their lives. Later, you upload them to your favorite photo-sharing site to show your family and friends on your social network, not giving it a second thought. Two years from now, you go to a travel site to book another trip to Hawaii, and lo and behold, you see a familiar-looking photo in an advertisement for the Hawaii resort you are looking into. You look a bit closer and you realize that in the advertisement is a picture of your kids at the beach that you took two years ago! You wrack your brains trying to figure out how it happened, who did it, and why.

If you think this scenario is a bit frightening or just can't be, you better take note of this report by CNET writer Declan McCullagh: "Instagram says it now has the right to sell your photos." Declan reports that with the first major policy shift since Facebook bought the photo-sharing site, Instagram claims the right to sell users' photos without payment or notification. And if you don't opt out of this by deleting your Instagram account by January 16, you can't opt out of it afterward.

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 10:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, and Rick Perry wants to arm teachers in Texas.

hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 11:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — December 18, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.

FWIW, I believe there are several key members in government who are NRA members and they want to see stricter gun laws when it comes to type of weaponry and size of gun clips...pretty much what has been discussed here in the forum. There's no sense in allowing guns on the street which could saw through a crowd, killing and injuring many.

I only wish they could focus better on just who should rightly own a gun. The problem here is...

How can they prevent the behind-the-scenes gun sales...the ones that never get registered.

...

a bit of positive news....

Miss Kristina Shevshenko was released from the hospital and is now home. I wish her a speedy recovery!

goldenoldie — December 19, 2012 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 18, 2012 at 11:13 p.m.

I thought just about everybody in Texas is packing these days.

goldenoldie — December 19, 2012 at 5:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: The public push back on the Instagram photo ownership has caused them to back down a bit.

Drift: Having a discussion of gun control without the NRA is like having a discussion in the basement about weed without you. :) The NRA is having a news conference on Friday. Stay tuned.

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 6:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- What "meaningful contributions" do you think they have planned?

No doubt they'll remind us of how "meaningful" our 2nd Amendment rights are.

---

Drift @ 8:33- This sums it up a bit.

How The NRA Became The Most Powerful Special Interest In Washington

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-lobbying-money-national-rifle-association-washington-2012-12#ixzz2FTJYuC6M

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On a different note, Obama needs to get a "union thug" to negotiate for him. Once again this president is capitulating on progressive values. Someone needs to remind him he won. I don't blame the GOP for taking advantage of Obama's weakness in negotiating, who wouldn't?

**Obama named Time’s person of the year**

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/obama_named_times_person_of_the_year/

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


the only reason to belong to the nra is to be a member of the vancouver gun club. kinda like facebook and the columbian, as long as you're not me (matt's replacement has again banned me for not 'proving' i'm me).

it's a hard issue to decide...encroach on the 2nd amendment by banning outright some guns and making all guns harder to acquire, or leave the situation as-is.

where do we draw the line? automatic weapons are banned, then what? almost all guns out there that aren't shotguns are 'semi-automatic'. my 9mm is. my .22 rifle is. to ban for being semi-automatic is a very real violation of '...shall not be abridged'.

ammo is another issue. hollow-points usually stop in the torso, making it safer to use in apartments, etc. nothing continues through a wall to injure anyone but the target.

i'm not a gun collector, and only know about the two guns i have, so my opinion is just my opinion.

but the potential to wreck havoc on our 2nd amend. rigits doesn't seem worth the dubious benefits. australia initially had a decrease, then the crime/etc figures rose again making the ban of guns a questionable reason for the decrease in the first place.

it's my belief the problem isn't in the tool, it's in the user. to punish all gun owners isn't right.

DeeLittle — December 19, 2012 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


2 cents on Benghazi.

Why is this administration, to include the President and Hillary Clinton falling on their political swords for Patraeus?

Seems to me the worst thing Clinton did was trust a "living legend" was doing his job instead of getting laid on the down low. One wouldn't think you'd have to micro manage security responsibilities for someone like Patraeus.

I've yet to see the media address this point of view. I'm sure others must see this the same way and hope the focus shifts. Hearings are coming up. Reintroduce Patraeus if need be.

You know Republicans will be laying groundwork to combat Hillary's more than likely run in 16.

This could affect her run in somewhat. Think of debates on foreign policy.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle @ 6:55 am: You are showing reservation and restraint amid all the emotion that surrounds us now and this is good. Your questions need to be asked and answered before legislative changes are proposed and made.

See, reasonable people can agree, no matter how far apart politically they may be.

I am not a gun owner. I will never own a weapon. I dislike the unchecked power of the NRA. I also don't want to see another massacre in a place where children are supposed to be safe. There is an answer to this, but none of us are going to find it quickly.

I very much worry about knee-jerk legislation or memorial legislation (Adam Walsh Act; Amber Alert; Megan's Law, etc) that seem very worthy in the heat of the moment, but later prove to be problematic, ill-planned, and grow to be unfunded mandates that drain state coffers. While meant to trap the bad guys, it often snares unintended targets.

We cannot predict risk with any degree of certainty. Civil commitment based on what someone might do is a civil rights slippery slope and states with this legislation are starting to look at it more critically because it is a bottomless money pit that has not been scientifically proven to keep the public safer. There are studies that show that states with these laws do not have less violent crimes than states without. Vermont turned its back on such plans and Minnesota is taking a hard look at reforming their statutes. They provide an illusion of protection only and cost the taxpayer millions of dollars a year that could be going to programs that actually work.

Which brings me to a 2009 study about nee-jerk legislation and why it is bad public policy.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://zharth.net/random_activities_theory.pdf

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


just saw where bullet-proof backpack for kids have seen their sales soar. There comes a point where the 2nd amendment will need to be re-visited. It can be amended, after all, it is an amendment itself.

mrd — December 19, 2012 at 7:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd: Taking a second look at the second amendment is a great option that should be on the table.

Arming children with bullet-proof backpacks and teachers with guns is chillingly stupid to me.

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Video of Bryan Fischer claiming that God did not intervene to protect the Sandy Hook children because he was not "wanted" in the schools.

If you want your children to live, invite him back in.

Unimaginable human being that man. Unimaginable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is2x7Q...

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- *teachers with guns is chillingly stupid to me.*

Totally. On about a zillion levels. One being, troubled students would have access to guns when they normally wouldn't. .....

Many if not most Jr high and High schoolers are capable of overcoming most teachers.

This in and of itself should negate further consideration.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here is the link:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is2x7Q...

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 19, 2012 at 8 a.m.

"Arming children with bullet-proof backpacks and teachers with guns is chillingly stupid to me."

In wake of this incident, Vancouver has put armed officers in their schools, I am sure many other districts around the country have done the same. How long before trigger happy officers in cities like Portland, Oakland and Seattle rack up a higher death toll than the Sandy Hook shooter? I am not a advocate of guns in schools but I believe teachers would be better trained in dealing with troubled children, and would be the safer choice when compared to our paramilitary police.

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My guess is S.C. is a trial balloon for other red states to follow in the future.

A favorable Supreme Court decision, winning the Presidency, winning more votes for the House than Republicans and shoring up Dem minority, strengthening the already majored Senate....

The will of the people mean nothing to some of these folks. Nothing.

**South Carolina Bill Would Criminalize Obamacare**

South Carolina is considering outlawing Obamacare.

Five Republican South Carolina state representatives introduced a bill last week that, **if passed, would send people to jail for trying to implement the Affordable Care Act in South Carolina.**

Under the bill, federal officials, employees and contractors implementing Obamacare could face a jail sentence of up to 5 years, and state officials and employees implementing Obamacare could face a jail sentence of up to 2 years.

Calling Obamacare unconstitutional, the "South Carolina Freedom of Health Care Protection Act" declares that the law "is invalid in this State, is not recognized by this State, is specifically rejected by this State, and is null and void and of no effect in this State."

South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) has not commented on the bill, according to U.S. News & World Report. Her office did not respond to a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/south-carolina-obamacare_n_2329425.html

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- I'm reminded of folks like Bobbo the Clown who used to post here.

For decades conservatives have been vilifying/labeling public school teachers, as by and large leftists with a radical social agenda.

And now the right wants to arm them with Glocks!

Fascinating!!! :))

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.

First of all, The only complaint I have posted concerning teachers is the minority of them who enter the profession, knowing what it entails and than constantly complain about what it entails. Most teachers are more trustworthy than police officers. Secondly, I did not support arming anybody at the school, what I said is **if** someone is armed it would be safer for the students if it was an educational professional.

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert at 8:33 AM: My idea of dealing with troubled children (which I did for my entire career in public schools) is with evidence-based mental health treatments. That, plus supporting their families and accessing appropriate community-based services to supplement what we can do during the school day.

Identify the issues early and get treatment: not always easy in this world. The way the laws are written in many states, it takes an overt act of violence against oneself or others to get into some community and residential treatment programs. By that time, it might be too little too late. And, if a student is over 18, we need their cooperation to seek treatment. Not gonna happen when their brain tells them they are OK and the rest of the world is wrong.

I have heard that Nancy Lanza was attempting to get guardianship over her adult son so that she could seek mental health treatment on his behalf, against his will. Taking self-determination from an adult, even one who may be impaired, is a difficult legal battle.

No easy answers because the problem is a many-headed hydra and needs multiple interventions to fix it.

Me and my educator colleagues packing heat in the schools? Not gonna happen in this state. Maybe Texas. :)

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**The War Against Teachers as Public Intellectuals in Dark Times**

By Henry A. Giroux

....
What is repressed in these jarring historical moments is that teachers have been under vicious and sustained attack by right-wing conservatives, religious fundamentalists, and centrist democrats since the beginning of the 1980s. Depicted as the new "welfare queens," their labor and their care has been instrumentalized and infantilized; [1] they have been fired en masse under calls for austerity; they have seen rollbacks in their pensions, and have been derided because they teach in so-called "government schools." Public school teachers too readily and far too pervasively have been relegated to zones of humiliation and denigration. The importance of what teachers actually do, the crucial and highly differentiated nature of the work they perform and their value as guardians, role models and trustees only appears in the midst of such a tragic event. If the United States is to prevent its slide into a deeply violent and anti-democratic state, it will, among other things, be required fundamentally to rethink not merely the relationship between education and democracy, but also the very nature of teaching, the role of teachers as engaged citizens and public intellectuals and the relationship between teaching and social responsibility. This essay makes one small contribution to that effort.
.....

[http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13367-the-corporate-war-against-teachers-as-public-intellectuals-in-dark-times][1]

[1]: http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13367-the-corporate-war-against-teachers-as-public-intellectuals-in-dark-times

mr_basil_seal — December 19, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- A trained police officer would be much more dependable/qualified to adequately respond to a threatening situation than a school teacher. There should be no question about that.

*How long before trigger happy officers in cities like Portland, Oakland and Seattle rack up a higher death toll than the Sandy Hook shooter?*

Even for me, that's a bit over the top.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


basil: I think, or hope, that many vociferous critics of teachers will fade because of the heroism displayed by the educators at Sandy Hook.

What they did in their attempts to save the children, in my opinion, represent the majority of what their colleagues would do in similar circumstances throughout the country.

As frobert said, there are many more "good" teachers than "bad." It is time we started showing our appreciation for the way our educators care for our children. The majority are extraordinary and self-less and child-centered all the way.

manthou — December 19, 2012 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 19, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.

I was not supporting arming anybody at school, I was pointing out that teachers would be much less likely to gun down unarmed students than police. As the parent of an Asperger's student, it scares me that quite possibly misinformed and armed police officers are roaming the halls of his school.

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 19, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.

We seem to have agreement on that combination of issues

mr_basil_seal — December 19, 2012 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.

So, do you consider all of the brutality against children and the handicapped in this country acceptable?

[http://www.policebrutality.info/tag/police-brutality-on-children][1]

[1]: http://www.policebrutality.info/tag/police-brutality-on-children

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I think that IF teachers are to be armed, it should be with "less than lethal" means, like a tazer.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 19, 2012 at 9:12 a.m.

Giroux's argument goes much deeper into the rw vilification of public schooling

....
The increasing militarization of reason and growing expansion of forms of militarized discipline are most visible in policies currently promoted by wealthy conservative foundations such as the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute along with the high-profile presence and advocacy of corporate reform spokespersons such as Joel Klein and Michelle Rhee and billionaire financers such as Michael Milken.[3] As Ken Saltman, Diane Ravitch, Alex Means and others have pointed out, wealthy billionaires such as Bill Gates are financing educational reforms that promote privatization, de-professionalization, online classes, and high-stakes testing, while at the same time impugning the character and autonomy of teachers and the unions that support them.[4] Consequently, public school teachers have become the new class of government-dependent moochers and the disparaged culture of Wall Street has emerged as the only model or resource from which to develop theories of educational leadership and reform.[5] The same people who gave us the economic recession of 2008, lost billions in corrupt trading practices, and sold fraudulent mortgages to millions of homeowners have ironically become sources of wisdom and insight regarding how young people should be educated.

Attesting to the fact that political culture has become an adjunct of the culture of finance, politicians at the state and federal levels, irrespective of their political affiliation, advocate reforms that amount to selling off or giving away public schools to the apostles of casino capitalism.[6] More importantly, the hysterical fury now being waged by the new educational reformists against public education exhibits no interest in modes of education that invest in an "educated public for the culture of the present and future."[7] On the contrary, their relevance and power can be measured by the speed with which any notion of civic responsibilities is evaded.

What these individuals and institutions all share is an utter disregard for public values, critical thinking and any notion of education as a moral and political practice.

.....
....

mr_basil_seal — December 19, 2012 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Any thought of arming all teachers is ludicrous.

Perhaps it is worth consideration, that some school staff would volunteer to be a gun handler in the case of emergency, and have access to a gun kept in a secure location.

kn_dalai — December 19, 2012 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.

"I think that IF teachers are to be armed, it should be with "less than lethal" means, like a tazer."

The proper term is "less lethal" not "less than lethal" Tazers, beanbag rounds, batons, pepperspray and rubber bullets do kill.

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 10:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


i'm of the 'realist' persusaion.

1. we can't make a rule that solves a problem of good vs. evil.

2. we must understand that good must be defensible in a real world.

3. to concentrate on the weapon is to reach for the easy, and false, solution

4. free people will have to deal with free evil. to reduce freedom isn't the way.

5. there are 'problems' that making law can't solve.

6. personal responsibility is the flip-side of freedom. if gvt assumes the former, it eliminates the latter.

DeeLittle — December 19, 2012 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The proper term is "less lethal" not "less than lethal" Tazers, beanbag rounds, batons, pepperspray and rubber bullets do kill.*

*frobert — December 19, 2012 at 10:26 a.m.*

you ignore the reality of the situation. in how many cases do these non-lethal methods result in death? what's the percentage of death-results in the overall number of uses of non-lethal means?

you're never going to get a perfect solution ... reality is, something will go wrong if a technique is used long enough. you have to go for what works in the *long run*.

DeeLittle — December 19, 2012 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


fro-

The term is "Less than lethal".

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/plus/e0903/final.pdfhttp://

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — December 19, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.

Again, if these cause death, which they all have, they are "less lethal" not "non-lethal". Luckily Vancouver is not among them, but in many cities the police are out of control.

[http://www.policemisconduct.net/][1]

[1]: http://www.policemisconduct.net/

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.

"Department of Justice (Department) Special Agents, Deputy Marshals,
and correctional personnel may use less-lethal weapons when circumstances
require use of some force, but use of deadly force would not be appropriate.1
The Department’s law enforcement components – the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF); Drug Enforcement Administration
(DEA); Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI); Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP);
and United States Marshals Service (USMS) – use several types of less-lethal
weapons. The only less-lethal weapons provided to FBI and DEA Special Agents
are batons and pepper spray. In addition to batons and pepper spray, ATF,
BOP, and USMS personnel can use less-lethal weapons that include “bean bag”
shotgun rounds (bean bag rounds), baton launchers, and rubber projectiles.
Also in 2002, after successful pilot testing at its facilities, the BOP approved the
PepperBall system, which involves firing projectiles containing highly irritating
pepper powder. In addition, ATF and the USMS have approved the use of the
Taser, a conducted energy device that is a more sophisticated less-lethal
weapon.

Use of these weapons can also enhance the safety of law enforcement officers
and the public during law enforcement operations. However, while less-lethal
weapons are less likely to cause serious injury or death than firearms,
significant injuries and fatalities can result from their use"

[http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/plus/e0903/final.pdf][1]

[1]: http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/plus/e0903/final.pdf

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Non-lethal weapons, also called less-lethal weapons, less-than-lethal weapons, non-deadly weapons, compliance weapons, or pain-inducing weapons are weapons intended to be less likely to kill a living target than are conventional weapons. It is often understood that accidental, incidental, and correlative casualties are risked wherever force is applied, but non-lethal weapons try to minimise the risk as much as possible. Non-lethal weapons are used in combat situations to limit the escalation of conflict where employment of lethal force is prohibited or undesirable, where rules of engagement require minimum casualties, or where policy restricts the use of conventional force.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-leth...

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just got a phone call from some company "Micro" something that wanted to tell me about how they could fix my computer over the phone. That's when I hung up on them. The number they were calling from was 1-888-408-6649. And the guy had an Indian accent. So many scams out there, I don't trust cold callers.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 12:49 p.m

LOLOLOLOL Now that's funny! Made me about choke on my water!

Should have asked him how he was going to do it...telepathic? **;)**

ELISI — December 19, 2012 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, What they do is have you open a browser window and go to a certain web site and put in a code, then they take control of your computer, copy your hard-drive and steal all your info. Then they empty your bank accounts and ruin your credit. They will get everything you have and they can't be traced. The 800 number is in a foreign country and so are they. They prey on people who aren't computer literate and who have had trouble in the past with their machines. This is a very profitable scam.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- It's not always about having it this way or that way. Not every scenario has an absolute.

Think about teachers you had in school. Do you really want them armed? What would it take for football player Johnny to overpower Ms. Krenwinkle (or most teachers) take their weapon and turn it on them or others.

The idea to arm teachers is pretty damn ridiculous in my opinion for many reasons.

The day our public school teachers are required to pass a gunnery skills test and required to carry will be a sad day indeed. Canada might be looking good...

I wouldn't be surprised if some on the right use this to make some private Christian schools attractive to consumers.

I can see it now...

[*Don't worry, when attending our school, your child will not only be protected in the loving arms of Jesus, but embraced by the friendly arms of Smith & Wesson. Peace and tranquility guaranteed from our highly trained staff who are state certified and weapons proficient.*]

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye, I know...was just poking fun at the scammer.
Wonder what he'd have said if you had asked him if he was going to do it telepathic...just hit me as funny..

ELISI — December 19, 2012 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


When I was in school the teachers *were* armed. Some more so than others, but still...

All the shop teachers had holes drilled in their paddles to mitigate air resistance as they swung them. The auto shop teacher (Greenwell) had one hell of an arm.

These cats weren't packin' ping-pong paddles, man. They had some real heat.

Drift — December 19, 2012 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I heard on the news earlier, somewhere a kid went to school armed (for protection) at the urging of his parents and was suspended...one helluva slippery slope.

---

I think of the teachers I used to piss off at school when I attended. I'm glad a few of them weren't armed.

One day after drafting class, Mr. Dixon pulled me aside and said he would overlook my attendance record and inappropriate behavior, (I flipped him off and said the words to go with it during class time earlier in the year and was suspended) and pass me if I brought him a bottle of Chivas Regal.

I told him to f off.

I didn't pass the class.

And I'm glad he wasn't armed. :)

I think k_nd's suggestion has some merit...hi k_nd! :)

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- I can totally relate. My auto shop teacher in Jr. High, Mr. Schnell, stood all of about 5'7", but packed a wallop rivaled to Thor.

He wielded a custom job from the wood shop dept. With hurt, he was second to no one, even to our warlock prima donna Dean we dubbed Chrome Dome.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In grade school, the teachers just sent you to the Principal's office. He had the paddle, and wasn't afraid to use it. It too, had holes in it for less wind resistance. In high school, they just threatened you with expulsion. Everybody there really wanted to be there and had to apply to get in so that was enough. It's sad to think that "they" outlawed that. There is no respect left in our country. We really need that back again.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.

You are responding to something I never said. I did not advocate arming teachers, I just made the statement that armed teachers would kill less students than our "standing army" of police occupying the schools.

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*So, do you consider all of the brutality against children and the handicapped in this country acceptable?*

frobert- My bad. After I posted I realized I hadn't referenced which post. I don't take my posts seriously enough to correct them after sending except if it's blatant and I should have.

I was speaking to what I consider to be a false equivalency and too absolutist. A poor comparison.

Sorry about the misunderstanding on arming teachers. I reread some posts and I misunderstood.

--
.
*nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.*

*frobert — December 19, 2012 at 8:56 a.m.*

That's why I qualified it with Bobbo the Clown, knowing you are conservative but not in the religious sense. I'm hearing some Tea Party folk politicians supporting armed teachers.

The right has been fracturing at such a rapid rate since 2008 it's hard to keep up. I was just sharing a thought.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-

I happen to remember those armed teachers with wiffle paddles, Ouch!!:):)Sorry to say i had a chance or two to meet with that fate....You are right about the lack of respect in our country. It is probably my biggest complaint.

The administration leadership at the HS our kids went to here in Vancouver lacked in several key areas. Leadership for one, Respect of the kids and for the kids as they were mostly lumped into the same pot when in actuallity they shouldn't have been
And working together with the parents...It's like if you asked them a question your were questioning their authority or decision making process when in fact you just wanted to know what was or is going on... The teachers were very easy to contact vial email and there was great communication there.

The respect thing should start at home first and be continually worked on in life...

vanwadreamer — December 19, 2012 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The respect thing should start at home first and be continually worked on in life...

vanwadreamer — December 19, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.

I agree, however.... The government has taken that away from parents by outlawing spanking. All the kid has do do now is call the cops or social services and tell them you spanked them or was mean to them and YOU can be arrested and charged with child abuse, no questions asked.

There are things you can discuss with your children until you are blue in the face but if they refuse to listen or backtalk you, you have little repercussion. Try taking away their phone or I-pod or better yet try to ground them and watch them laugh at you. I'm not saying your kids should be afraid of you, but maybe just a little wouldn't hurt.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama looked so weak today. When asked about fiscal cliff negotiations he referenced Hurricane Sandy and the Conn. shooting and said first and foremost the American people are tired and just want a deal......republicans are eating him for dinner.

No president Obama, first and foremost we want you to stand firm on your "red line" issues in negotiations. Don't touch Social Security, tax income above $250,000, don't make the debt ceiling any part of this as it shouldn't be an issue....he's caved on every one and he's ready to cave more.

And the right calls this guy an uncompromising socialist, when he seems to be just left of Reagan.

In many instances our country would be the better for it if he was a socialist.

One great big freaking sigh..........................

**[**forum copyright infringement disclaimer acknowledging mr_basil_seal as the original and most prolific forum sigher**]**

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The kids are much more respectful today than they were in the late sixties & early seventies imo. Granted I grew up in sin city, but sometimes when we get older we forget how things were a bit.

Just sayin'.

I haven't seen any major school related riots, parked cars set on fire, large amounts of chemical busts, murders etc. in quiet communities for quite awhile.

Although seems like most times when talking to family there's a school related gang/other homicide/s mentioned when speaking of local news.

It's a tough world out there.

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 3:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as I’m concerned, vanwa, you have always had some of the better comments. Your personal anecdotes and observations, are a welcome relief to pie-in-the-sky Marxist proselytizers.

......................................................

Ahem. Separately, maybe I’ve missed something here, but I’m wondering why there wasn’t a camera on the entrance door of Sandy Hook, with a monitor in the office. As I understand it, the school had just installed new security devices. I’m also wondering about dead bolts, or lack thereof, on class room doors. I’m reminded of the deadbolts that were installed on aircraft cockpits after 911.

kn_dalai — December 19, 2012 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


KN Dalai

My spell check would not have worked on *proselytizers*....You know what, I grew up a military "brat"...Dad was enlisted and made it to be an E9 for those who know rank.. He was an 8th grade drop out then went into military... He was self taught and became very educated through reading and life. He carried a very big stick too..Ouchy..Guess i deserved a few of those whoopings... I laugh now but back then...

Hawk, You are right about laying a hand on a child now even if there 6ft 2" tall.. They just pick up the phone and dial 911....I have seen that happen to parents wether warranted is another story, but that is where a lack of respect comes in.. I agree they should have a little fear otherwise when do they really know when they have crossed the line....

vanwadreamer — December 19, 2012 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, Elisi, and others who feel spanking might be appropriate and needed. I got spanked once by my Dad-and as it turned out,it was uncalled for and he realized it. Ditto for teachers. I don't think they would have even thought of doing so to any kids. My first grade teacher had 43 kids and no aide. But there was order! Jawohl! She commanded respect and she got it. The only one who was into laying hands on the kids (pulling ears) was the catholic priest and he hated all kids anyway. They hated him in return, as did most of the adults. Mean old dude.
I have never ever spanked my kid, and she never ever needed it. She did and still does respect her elders, her teachers, others, never does anything that would even warrant corporal punishment. Was I an angel? Nah. is my kid an angel? hm, maybe (brag Momma here).

I am against spanking, never felt the need. You can instill value and respect in other ways. My Dad had that look in his eyes and you knew you did wrong. All it took. As I said earlier, I went to school knowing I would be in for it if I disrespected the teachers. Not sure what would have been the outcome as it never came to it. I do think, however, that we are too permissive and forget to make the boundaries clear to the kids these days. That has to stop.

luvithere — December 19, 2012 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — December 19, 2012 at 5:23 p.m

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, boundaries are necessary and I always had them. I think I got spanked once when I was young and never forgot it. I believe that might have set that boundary in place. I think that put the "fear" in me forever and it wasn't ever needed again. I also think that children need at least one parent at home until they are at least out of grade school. Of course if we actually had a "living wage" back in this country, that might be possible.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — December 19, 2012 at 5:23 p.m

I was raised with corporal punishment as a fear of if we step outside the boundaries. Spanked once by my dad, that set enough fear in me not to stray out of bounds. My mother mainly ruled and used spanking more.
I hated it, and swore never to humiliate any children I had in the way my mother did us kids.
Spanking should be used ONLY for something serious, such as stealing. One or two swats on the bottom is more than enough.
I have 2 kids, oldest is 35, stole a candy bar when about 7 or 8, one slap on the bottom.
The youngest is almost 24 and got mad and spit in my face and punched me in the stomach when about 7 in front of the teacher after school cause he wanted to go to another kids house, I said no. Two swats on his bottom.
I have never felt the need to ground either, grounding IMO does nothing. But, take away something they prize, or add chores works better, at least with my two did.

Right now my daughter is going through a tough time with her 14 yr old. He asked her last week why her and his dad couldn't be parents that just don't care what he does. That came after they decided a movie he wanted to see wasn't appropriate for him to see.

ELISI — December 19, 2012 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou @ 8:22- The list grows and the hypocrisy knows no end.

**Newt Gingrich Blames ‘Anti Religious’ Secular Government For Newtown Shooting**

During a local talk radio show early Wednesday morning, former Speaker Newt Gingrich cast his lot with the religious right by blaming last week’s tragic shooting in Newtown, Connecticut on secularism and immoral video games.

Gingrich joined host Brian Thomas of 55KRC in Cincinnati to discuss his latest book, but the conversation quickly pivoted towards gun control and why godlessness in our schools is really to blame:

When you have an anti-religious, secular bureaucracy and secular judiciary seeking to drive God out of public life, something fills the vacuum. And that something, you know, I don’t know that going from communion to playing war games in which you practice killing people is necessarily an improvement.

Gingrich is perhaps the most prominent Republican yet to blame godlessness for the events at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee said on the day of the shooting that the tragedy occurred because we “removed God from our schools,” while televangelist James Dobson blamed gay marriage and abortion.

This is also not the first time Gingrich has sought to blame secularism and video game manufacturers for causing a school shooting. After the massacre at Virginia Tech in 2007, he appeared on This Week with George Stephanopoulos and made a very similar argument:
I think the fact is if you look at the amount of violence in games that young people play, at 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 years of age, if you look at the de-humanization, if you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are endowed by a creator, that our rights come from God, that if you kill somebody you’re committing an act of Evil.
[link text][1]
Conservatives have been eager to turn elsewhere in search of a cause for such tragedies, unwilling to have a serious discussion over gun control. But studies have shown that school shootings are occurring with more frequency than ever before, curiously mirroring the expansion of gun rights across the country.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/19/1358021/newt-gingrich-blames-anti-religious-secular-government-for-newtown-shooting/

[1]: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/19/1358021/newt-gingrich-blames-anti-religious-secular-government-for-newtown-shooting/

nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.

I'll bet that's what caused his two divorces as well.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Florida man invokes 'stand your ground' law over pizza argument shooting
By NBC News staff

A Florida man invoked the state’s controversial “stand your ground” law after he shot another customer at a pizza parlor who complained that his pie wasn’t coming out fast enough, the Tampa Bay Times reported.

Around 4 p.m. at a Little Caesars pizzeria in St. Petersburg, Fla., Randall White, 49, expressed dissatisfaction with the service. He had ordered a thin-crust vegetable pizza.

"Twenty minutes later, I'm like, 'Where's my pizza?'" White told the Tampa Bay Times.

Also waiting in line was Michael Jock, 52, who chided White for complaining.

The two then started tussling, police told the Tampa Bay Times. When White raised a fist, Jock, who has a concealed-weapons permit, responded by pulling out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver.

As they wrestled, Jock fired a round and shot White in his middle. He fired again, hitting White in the same area, police told the Tampa Bay Times.

The two men then went outside and waited for police to arrive. Jock immediately told officers that he felt the shooting was justified under the “stand your ground law,” police told the Tampa Bay Times.

Police arrested Jock; he was later released on $20,000 bail.

Jock, of St. Petersburg, has had legal troubles in the past. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail in 2001 after pleading guilty to three misdemeanor charges, according to court records: criminal mischief, disorderly intoxication and loitering or prowling.

Florida's “stand your ground” was nationally debated following the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, who said he was defending himself under the law.

hawkeye — December 19, 2012 at 10:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — December 19, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.

"But studies have shown that school shootings are occurring with more frequency than ever before, curiously mirroring the expansion of gun rights across the country."

Since the 1992-1993 with 55 deaths, there has been a significant decline in school shootings. But that's what you get for getting "facts" from thinkprogress(or any other highly polarized publication).

[http://www.schoolsafety.us/media-resources/school-associated-violent-deaths][1]

[1]: http://www.schoolsafety.us/media-resources/school-associated-violent-deaths

frobert — December 19, 2012 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Kennesaw GA passed this bizarre little law back in 1982 mandating gun/ammo ownership by all heads of household (less convicted felons, mentally unstable, and morally opposed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw...

While open to debate over whether a direct link can be made, their crime rate dropped immediately and has remained much lower than in neighboring counties or the national average. And if you check the Demographics, this isn't a perfect little town; several conditions exist which are often cited as leading to crime.

I've got a recollection of a town in Washington passing a similar law in the early '90s, but can't track that one down.

roger — December 20, 2012 at 4:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal



frobert — December 19, 2012 at 10:33 p.m.

Might want to review the criteria and definitions for the ThinkProgress cited study and yours. Esp. if you are attempting an 'attack the messenger'.......

Also see:

Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2011
[http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2011/][1]

[1]: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2011/

mr_basil_seal — December 20, 2012 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak — but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel. Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza."

Charlotte Allen
National Review

[http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#][1]

[1]: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#

mr_basil_seal — December 20, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**‘Why I Was Wrong’**
Dick Morris

"But the more proximate cause of my error was that I did not take full account of the impact of hurricane Sandy and of Governor Chris Christie’s bipartisan march through New Jersey arm in arm with President Obama. Not to mention Christe’s fawning promotion of Obama’s presidential leadership. It made all the difference."

Dick Morris: ‘Why I Was Wrong’
[http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/332936/dick-morris-why-i-wrong-katrina-trinko][1]

[1]: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/332936/dick-morris-why-i-wrong-katrina-trinko

mr_basil_seal — December 20, 2012 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Republican Party has for years gotten away with having extremist positions without being widely branded as an extremist party. But a new CNN/ORC International poll finds that, for the first time, a majority of Americans say Republican policies are too extreme, and the bad news for the GOP doesn't stop there.

The poll found 53 percent saying Republican policies are too extreme, as compared with 37 percent who say Democratic policies are too extreme. The group calling Republicans too extreme is up 17 points from two years ago—basically, Republicans took their wins in 2010 and used them to convince the nation they're extremists.

And if you think one of two parties working on a "compromise" is too extreme, chances are you think that party should compromise more. Which is exactly how it works out with the fiscal curb—53 percent say Republicans should compromise more, 41 percent say Democrats should compromise more. And if a deal can't be reached in time to avoid the "cliff," 48 percent will blame Republicans and 37 percent will blame President Barack Obama more.

The poll was conducted Dec. 17 and 18, so Obama's capitulation on cutting Social Security benefits came right in the middle of its time in the field. Because what better response to having the upper hand by a whole host of measures than giving in to extremists and embracing an unpopular policy?

People think—rightly—that Republicans are extremists who should compromise. It's time to brand them with the former and hold their failure to do the latter under a bright light.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/20/1172296/-Poll-53-say-Republican-policies-are-too-extreme

hawkeye — December 20, 2012 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Was watching a pbs program about the founders' handling of the issue of religion in the new republic.

Basically, it's what may of us have been saying all along: freedom OF religion not FROM it. I believe it was thomas jefferson who actually said that religion should be free to be practiced in the public square.

That's the essence of what people like me are saying: religion is NOT A STATE ISSUE. It was, from the beginning, to be allowed. It's practice. It's existence not hidden. No exceptions.

From this we are emboldened to say that the USA allows ALL religions to **openly** pratice their religious beliefs, “public square” notwithstanding.

We don't expect to control government. We also don't expect the federal government to deny us our right of 'free execise of religion'. *'where'* is not a condition.

DeeLittle — December 21, 2012 at 12:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle: I am so glad that you have the ability to speak on behalf of every religious group in the country when you say, "WE (emphasis mine) don't expect to control government."

Wish I felt as confident about that statement. :) I personally know people who believe it is their God-given mandate to infiltrate education, government, business with a biased religious agenda.

We obviously travel in different worlds.
______________________________________________________

President Obama is really just a liberal Republican, according to this columnist in the Fiscal Times. He makes some very good points:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2012/12/21/How-Democrats-Became-Liberal-Republicans.aspx#page1

manthou — December 21, 2012 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning Vancouver!

It's almost the 7th hour of Dec 21, 2012 and we are still here!

ELISI — December 21, 2012 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: LOL. I absolutely forgot about that. :)

Does anyone know where Jaime HB stood on the Plan B vote? Was she for it or against it? I have been scouring the 'net and cannot find any new information about her stance on this.

manthou — December 21, 2012 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, to be honest, I haven't been paying attention, I just figured as usual, nothing to be done and they'd go on break.
Leaving it up in the air until after Christmas, seems that is the track record of DC for years.

Too busy lately finishing up for Christmas and preparing for three new additions to to the family. Yep, three more babies will be added to the family, two boys and one girl. Bringing the count of great nieces and nephews for us to 20. One due any day the other two in April.

ELISI — December 21, 2012 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 21, 2012 at 6:39 a.m.

"President Obama is really just a liberal Republican, according to this columnist in the Fiscal Times"

No, Nixon was a liberal Republican, Obama is a NeoLiberal, and there are not many differences between that and a NeoConservative.

frobert — December 21, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — December 21, 2012 at 7:58 a.m. "
*No, Nixon was a liberal Republican, Obama is a NeoLiberal, and there are not many differences between that and a NeoConservative*."

Any chance of working definitions, major proponents and their writings, and examples from the respective administrations' policies?

Maybe a chart of positions from say FDR on......

mr_basil_seal — December 21, 2012 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Congratulations, Elisi, on your new family members! Focusing on what counts in this crazy world.....
_______________________________

frobert: Help me understand "neoliberal" from your point of view when you get the chance.

____________________________

The NRA "press conference" was real an infomercial. Yikes. This organization's diatribe today actually hurt their cause. You don't have to hang a bell on a fool.

One thing really worries me: the notion that we need a national database on the mentally ill.
Huh? I could make a joke that this would be 75% of the country, but, huh?

I can understand those with mental illness who have been adjudicated (usually involuntarily hospitalized by court order because they might harm themselves or others), but how in the world does the NRA propose to unmask the HIPAA-protected identities of everyone who has a mental health diagnosis or need?

I can see a new cottage industry cropping up again in the impossible world of risk prediction. Pass another useless law based on fear and hatred, not facts, that gives the public the illusion of protection. Snare a lot of innocent persons in its net just to catch the 1 person out of 10,000 who might be dangerous. When we erode the civil liberties of "others", we are chipping away at our own.

This is how I want my tax dollars spent. (Sarcasm intended).

manthou — December 21, 2012 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — December 21, 2012 at 6:56 a.m.

Funny that you would mention H B. I got an email from her yesterday saying exactly what I expected her to say about the "cliff" (I'm really getting tired of that phrase, I hope they come up with a better one next year). All she said was that she was open to all ideas. Which, if you follow her votes, means she will vote whatever Boehner tells her to vote on.

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW, manthou.... If I could figure out how, I would be more than happy to forward the email to you.

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 9:38 a.m.

Maybe not:

[http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h644][1]

[1]: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h644

mr_basil_seal — December 21, 2012 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"When the landlord, annuitant, or monied man, has a greater revenue than what he judges sufficient to maintain his own family, he employs either the whole or a part of the surplus in maintaining one or more menial servants. Increase this surplus, and he will naturally increase the number of those servants. When an independent workman, such as a weaver or shoemaker, has got more stock than what is sufficient to purchase the materials of his own work, and to maintain himself till he can dispose of it, he naturally employs one or more journeymen with the surplus, in order to make a profit by their work. Increase this surplus, and he will naturally increase the number of his journeymen. The demand for those who live by wages, therefore, necessarily increases with the increase of the revenue and stock of every country, and cannot possibly increase without it. The increase of revenue and stock is the increase of national wealth....Is this improvement in the circumstances of the lower ranks of the people to be regarded as an advantage or as an inconvenience to the society? The answer seems at first sight abundantly plain. Servants, laborers, and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe, and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labor as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed, and lodged.The liberal reward of labor, as it encourages the propagation, so it increases the industry of the common people. The wages of labor are the encouragement of industry, which, like every other human quality, improves in proportion to the encouragement it receives."

[Adam Smith][1]

[1]: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/adamsmith-summary.asp

mr_basil_seal — December 21, 2012 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, there is a surprise!

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


half-way through and still here...

happy end-of...well, everything i guess

DeeLittle — December 21, 2012 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"**The crucial point, though, and one which the critics haven’t responded to at all, is that the US military as a whole has not succeeded in the tasks that have been assigned to it. By contrast, much of the criticism seems to take as its premises a world where the US can and should have the capacity to dictate whatever outcomes it chooses**, and then to work back to the naval expenditure needed to achieve this. That’s not the world we live in. Defense funds allocated to the navy are at the expense of alternatives that might produce better outcomes on land.

An obvious response, and one which I would certainly endorse, is that the US should fight fewer wars and seek to end then sooner. And, as I observed in the original post, it could certainly be argued that the benefits of military activity in general are negative, so that it doesn’t matter if defense funds are allocated to activities with low benefit-cost ratios. But, since these arguments seem unlikely to command much support, I conclude that current US naval expenditure does not pass the benefit-cost test."

[http://crookedtimber.org/2012/10/04/who-needs-a-navy/][1]

"The sweeping defense policy bill is now headed to President Obama's desk, with the Senate passing the legislation authorizing about $633 billion in Pentagon programs by a wide 81-14 margin today. It came one day after the House passed it 315-107."

[http://www.nationaljournal.com/blogs/influencealley/2012/12/defense-authorization-bill-heads-to-president-obama-21][2]

[1]: http://crookedtimber.org/2012/10/04/who-needs-a-navy/
[2]: http://www.nationaljournal.com/blogs/influencealley/2012/12/defense-authorization-bill-heads-to-president-obama-21

mr_basil_seal — December 21, 2012 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — December 21, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.

Did you REALLY anticipate a different outcome?

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle and others: I didn't think anything of the day...except for the endless television pranks and silly comments about the "apocalypse," but then I ended up having an apocalyptic moment just a little while ago...

My stove's bottom oven element caught fire. Good thing I was in the kitchen and saw the glare of bright light emanating from my oven (maybe 30 seconds after I turned on the stove to preheat). I quickly turned the stove off and the flames died down. The element is toast...

and so are my Christmas baking plans till that element OR the stove is replaced. DANG...no homemade bread either. DRAT!

Yep...my apocalyptic moment.

sigh...

goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:15 p.m.

The reason your element caught fire was because it shorted out. I had the same thing last year. If you are lucky, you might be able to get one at W.L. May company in Portland. They carry most brands. Two screws and you should be back in the "dough" in no time.

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


December 21st...

Hmm...

Isn't it a certain somebody's birthday here on the forum today??? If I'm not mistaken, I believe two of our longstanding fellow forum followers are celebrating a birthday today. If I am mistaken, I know it's gosh darned close for the both of ya!

No need for me to say who but...

Happy Birthday to you know who!!!

goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Hawkeye. We're already planning it. My stove's been giving me issues over the past year...probably from all the cookin', lol.

goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*A great take on today's NRA speech as well as a great read if you have a couple of minutes.*

**NRA Leader Wayne LaPierre's Much-Criticized Sandy Hook Speech Was Actually Quite Effective**

Those critics are wrong. LaPierre's presentation was terrifically effective.

Granted, if you believe that what LaPierre was trying to do today was to sincerely join in a national conversation over school shootings, or offer a coherent set of preventative policy options, or even just demonstrate some baseline sensitivity for the lives that were lost, it is easy to see why you'd deem LaPierre's press conference to be an ineffective, tone-deaf failure.

But what you should remember that the National Rifle Association does not exist to offier sensible public policy or participate in conversations or pretend to be sensitive about tragedies. The National Rifle Association exists to assist the manufacturers of guns and gun-related accoutrements in selling guns and gun-related accoutrements to people. That is their job, summed up, in its entirety.

The NRA are lobbyists who represent a bunch of gun retailers, and this is what lobbyists do -- they help their clients sell their products. And every action that LaPierre took today can and should be viewed through that prism.

---

So, people wonder how LaPierre could have been so dumb as to sit on his hands for one week and then deliver the presentation he delivered today. And people wonder if, as a result of today's presentation, David Gregory is going to tear LaPierre a new one on "Meet The Press" this weekend. The people who wonder that have obviously not been watching David Gregory or "Meet The Press" lately, but that's beside the point.

Wayne LaPierre is only too happy to lose an argument to David Gregory. Wayne LaPierre is only too happy to have people criticize the NRA for its response. Wayne LaPierre hears the scorn that you have for his "guns in schools" idea, and he welcomes it. That's because today, Wayne LaPierre did not go out in front of reporters in a sincere attempt to mount a policy argument or craft a solution or engender warm feelings from his critics. Today was about synergy. Wayne LaPierre went out in front of reporters because he knew it was time to leverage the Sandy Hook shooting into a unique, sales-boosting opportunity for the industry he represents.

And what's going on in Connecticut today?

[Scott Carney@sgcarney
I'm at a gun shop thirty minutes away from Newtown CT. This place is packed. Ppl worried guns will be illegal so they are stocking up
21 Dec 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite]

So, you maybe didn't notice, but today was a good day for Wayne LaPierr

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/nra-wayne-lapierre_n_2348277.html

nailingit — December 21, 2012 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwXA7sHUlE

If every member of Congress would listen to this message and take it to heart, our country would be so much better off.

Amazing 3 min & 11 secs.

Reality & clarity.

nailingit — December 21, 2012 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And on a personal note...

I've received maybe a dozen or so personal forum e-mails in my 2-2 1/2 years of posting, and sent same in response. I'm just not one to reach out and socialize this way. That, and in the early days of posting an unnamed dweller sent me a couple of messages encouraging me to get nasty with someone they weren't getting along with. It left a bad taste in my mouth and a feeling of ..... yuckyness, I felt like I was entering some bizarre world where "Survivor" meets Charlotte's Web just by responding.

Anyway, I'm not criticizing basement dwellers who correspond frequently using the C's mail system, nor criticizing this type of service we're provided, and certainly not those who have felt compelled to share a kind word of encouragement or insight.

But sometimes I wonder, if the mail system didn't exist, how basement dialogue might be affected.

Just a thought.

nailingit — December 21, 2012 at 5:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*One takeaway I think most can agree on, the orange man has been ineffective in his role as Speaker of the House. Say what you will about Pelosi, this first woman Speaker of the House got things done and was a strong majority leader.*

**As Plan B Fails, GOP Imperils Fiscal Cliff Deal, Boehner’s Speakership**

*John Boehner tried to get his ideologues in line, but instead they weakened the GOP's hand. Now the risk is high for no bargain, more paralysis—and a speaker job in peril.*

Beneath this dynamic is a Republican brand that is deeply tarnished. A new CNN poll shows that for the first time, a majority of Americans view the Republican Party as “too extreme”—up 17 percentage points since the fall of 2010, before the Tea Party election. Moreover, 53 percent of Americans say Republicans should be willing to compromise more in fiscal-cliff negotiations—but that’s the opposite of the message conservatives are sending to their leadership. Theirs is a worldview where any compromise on taxes equals death. By putting ideological purity ahead of the good of the country or the good of their party, they are revealing a streak of nihilism—“some men just want to watch the world burn,” Republican strategist Rick Wilson tweeted after the vote.

Read more @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/21/as-plan-b-fails-gop-imperils-fiscal-cliff-deal-boehner-s-speakership.html

nailingit — December 21, 2012 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal



goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:23 p.m.

If you were referring to me, mine is Tuesday. Thanks

hawkeye — December 21, 2012 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, hawkeye...you were one of the two birthday "kids" of the forum I referenced. I knew it was very close or on Christmas, courtesy of past discussions on the forum...so I hope you don't mind it was a bit premature. I don't like to wish late December birthday kids a birthday/Christmas greeting at the same time...8)

goldenoldie — December 22, 2012 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


btw hawkeye...thanks again for the advice on where to pick up the stove element. We replaced it last night and will be starting up again this morning.

All's well that ends well.

goldenoldie — December 22, 2012 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mister Lou Brancaccio:

I may or may not be the first one in the forum to say to you this morning...that this week's Press Talk is exactly what the people of the county need to read AND hear. Nice interview, BTW.

With the negative economic situation that has plagued our county for far too long, I believe Mr. Madore just might have those necessary tools to jump start our local economy back into the positive direction and get Clark County working again...given his obvious success with US Digital AND the fact that he is a motivational person who is compassionate in what he believes as recognized in the video.

No need for me to keep my fingers crossed. Methinks this is exactly what our county needs right now...someone with fresh ideas...someone who has proved himself to be one who takes that initiative to jump into the ring and stand his ground. For those of us who have contemplated starting up our own business, whether it be a million-dollar venture or a small-time hobby business...this is definitely encouraging. His personable traits...they are contagious. Maybe his positive attitude will rub off onto more people which in my thoughts...is needed right about now.

Looks like the new year will start off right!!!

It will be interesting!!!

goldenoldie — December 22, 2012 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie,

It was a good interview. But I've got a couple of problems.

First is that Madore plans on working to attract business, but the only point made is that there's too much regulation. While I can buy into that there's too much in the way of red tape and fees, I can't subscribe to general deregulation. For example, environmental restrictions kept getting mentioned prior to the elections - as an example, do we really want to eliminate control over the gravel companies digging along the rivers? Also, I'd like to see a clearer plan on what kinds of businesses he'll work to attract here. We've already got a good example of one that isn't panning out - that hotel downtown.

I'm also uncomfortable with the talk on reducing the size of County gov't. It's not like this is the federal gov't, with several agencies providing similar services. I'm thinking any cuts will be at the worker level, which will probably result in poorer service to us.

roger — December 22, 2012 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good Saturday morning, roger. You ask some questions for which I agree. According to Lou's column though, Mr. Madore stated (quoting Lou's article)

"not to expect any drastic proposals until he spends a lot of time listening and learning.

In fact, he said he expects to spend little time in his commissioner's office and a lot of time meeting people."

It is my opinion, after observing his diligence in fighting wasted spending with regards to the CRC as well as the request to delay approval of CREDC budget (figuring there would be strings attached to the CRC project), that he wants a chance to go over each proposal that does come up, to prevent wasted spending in the county and to utilize what funding is approved and to make sure it goes to good use.

This tells me that he's not dead set against making cuts or reducing the size of county government, but rather...good investment practices FOR our county.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I believe it was Hawkeye who said he doesn't trust someone who smiles all the time, but I guess if we were in Mr. Madore's shoes, we'd have a reason to smile all the time. I think we could afford to give him a chance. Figure this...there's only one way our county government could go right now and I believe it's...to improve.

I'm keeping optimistic on this one, roger.

goldenoldie — December 22, 2012 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, what's with the side bar? Hate it already.

As for Madore, in one of my various conversations with him, he gave me a link to some guy back East that he was enamored with. The guy was a commissioner or Mayor or something that wanted to "shrink" government in his area. The way he did it was by privatizing the jobs the government did and putting them out for bid. Yup, he shrunk government alright and put a lot of long time people out of work in the process. I don't see this as a positive move, too much can go wrong.

Also, he wants to cut fees on all kinds of things, if he does that how is the County going to pay for what they are paying for now? Unless he's going to eliminate things like County parks and maintenance on county roads. Maybe he'll cut back on the Sheriffs office.

Another thing about him, he was ALWAYS wanting me to "come on down to Digital and take a tour". "You'll see how we do things and you'll be able to talk to the employees and see how happy they are". It always reminded me of some kind of a cult come-on. Very bad vibe.

hawkeye — December 22, 2012 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 21, 2012 at 3:23 p.m

Good morning! Golden if you were referring to me, yes my birthday was yesterday. Thanks!

Had a wonderful and evening!

ELISI — December 22, 2012 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok, what's with the sidebar? It's annoying!!!

ELISI — December 22, 2012 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Another thing about him, he was ALWAYS wanting me to "come on down to Digital and take a tour". "You'll see how we do things and you'll be able to talk to the employees and see how happy they are". It always reminded me of some kind of a cult come-on. Very bad vibe.*

hawkeye — December 22, 2012 at 8:56 a.m

Aww heck Hawkeye, go on a tour of his business, what's there to lose? Couple hours maybe? One really can't form a judgement on anyone, by words you read, or pictures. Even after meeting him, taking a tour and you still distrust him, fine. I have always found when having "bad vibes" about someone, after meeting them my opinion changes, very few times have I been right on, so I usually wait until I meet them.

ELISI — December 22, 2012 at 9:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit at 5:04 PM yesterday: It's called the "Let's you and him/her fight" game.

I think our culture is rife with it. How simple it is to reduce our differences into two-sided thinking. One side is always the villain. The other side is always the good guy.

And some folks like to have others do their fighting for them so that they can watch the pot boil from a safe distance.

Just sayin'

manthou — December 22, 2012 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Let's you and him/her fight"

and it gets scarier when the NRA dude says "the only way to stop a bad bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun". This is 'meriKa' today, and our 'meriKa' tomorrow. We need help. Perhaps Somalia can help. Their government is about as effective. It's time we do it or....
The Congress, the White House won't do chit as long as we let them get by doing chit. Folks, it's time to take it to the streets. Make the government scared of us-not the other way around. Until we do, we'll get what we deserve. BTW, in case you're dreaming, it ain't gonna happen with that silly little ballot box thing. That's what they'd have you believe, one bought and paid for politician is better than the other bought and paid for politician.

mrd — December 22, 2012 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd — December 22, 2012 at 10:09 p.m.

Make Madore figure it out. He's got ALL the answers!

hawkeye — December 22, 2012 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Funny typo in today's online headlines:

The caption for the article "Another light rail vote on horizon?"

*"Passengers board a Tri-Met Max light rail train at the Delta Park/Vanport light rail transit station."*

It should read this -

*"A Passenger boards a Tri-Met Max light rail train at the Delta Park/Vanport light rail transit station."*

Don't you just love how they try to make it sound busier than it truly is???

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI...yes, you were the other birthday "kid" I spoke of. Glad to hear you had a good time!

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 22, 2012 at 8:56 a.m.

When you speak of conversations you had with Mr. Madore...were they face to face? I had the chance to share in discussion with him at the C-Tran open house I'd attended and there were no bad vibes. I'm pretty good at singling out those who are up to no good...didn't have that cross my mind at all. He was open, honest and spoke with integrity. He was all business but was kind and polite. Honestly...you don't see that very often these days but when you do, it's easy to become suspicious and yes, in the past I have had my suspicions about the guy but now, I believe he's going to do his job and do it well, possibly exceeding the expectations of the voters. I have no concerns regarding personal agendas when it comes to this guy. His obvious concerns about the crossing project...he's not alone. He had his suspicions about wasted spending on the project...and he was correct. He could afford to pay for a review and got the answers he sought...something we need in government.

We ALL want the taxes and tolls and fees we pay to go to good use without unnecessary expenditures. I believe that is what his goal is as well.

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*"Federal health regulators say a genetically modified salmon that grows twice as fast as normal is unlikely to harm the environment, clearing the way for the first approval of a scientifically engineered animal for human consumption."*(Taken from an article posted here on the C)

Yeah...when they overpopulate the salmon runs with vigorously-growing genetically-altered salmon and their food supply diminishes, killing off the natives...

Then they'll think twice about that "unlikely to harm the environment" comment.

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Morning Goldie, I read that story myself with total disbelief. I do not eat much salmon out of the Columbia because of pollution issue, but to now think of modifying the remaining fish - boggles the mind. Can't we leave such an iconic fish alone? And yes, it will overwhelm the natives, that typically happens. Why do I think of Killer Piranhas and other moronic horror stories?

luvithere — December 23, 2012 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Mitt Romney was the first presidential candidate in a position to make use of the Presidential Transition Act of 2010, and boy did he ever make use of it, to the tune of $8.9 million.

The Presidential Transition Act gives presidential nominees resources to plan their transition to the presidency ahead of the actual election, to help ensure that they're fully prepared to hit the ground running as president. The Romney campaign's use of those resources was governed by the General Services Administration, but even within those constraints, it reminds you that this is a campaign that's facing complaints from nine media outlets over inflated costs on the campaign trail. How do you spend $8.9 million?

The design, construction and space planning for the Romney team’s office space, which took up multiple floors in the Mary E. Switzer building a couple miles from the White House, cost about $2.5 million. The furniture bill came in around $740,000, and basics like office supplies cost about $30,000. The biggest chunk by far came from communications and related hardware. Items such as IT services, computer equipment and cell phones cost $5.6 million. The GSA noted that some of the resources would be recycled; Dell Latitude Laptops bought for Romney’s 500-strong transition team, for example, will be used by other parts of the federal government. Rent charges were waived by the GSA, as they traditionally are for transition teams during the President-Elect phase.

That's $1,480 in furniture, $60 in office supplies, and $11,200 in computers, cell phones, and IT services for each member of Romney's transition team. In addition to the rent being waived, salaries are not included in what the GSA covers. By contrast, in 2008, when Barack Obama was actually elected president and began his transition after the election.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/20/1172428/-Mitt-Romney-s-team-spent-8-9-million-in-government-money-740-000-on-furniture

hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


sorry;

The design, construction and space planning for the Romney team’s office space, which took up multiple floors in the Mary E. Switzer building a couple miles from the White House, cost about $2.5 million. The furniture bill came in around $740,000, and basics like office supplies cost about $30,000. The biggest chunk by far came from communications and related hardware. Items such as IT services, computer equipment and cell phones cost $5.6 million. The GSA noted that some of the resources would be recycled; Dell Latitude Laptops bought for Romney’s 500-strong transition team, for example, will be used by other parts of the federal government. Rent charges were waived by the GSA, as they traditionally are for transition teams during the President-Elect phase.

That's $1,480 in furniture, $60 in office supplies, and $11,200 in computers, cell phones, and IT services for each member of Romney's transition team. In addition to the rent being waived, salaries are not included in what the GSA covers. By contrast, in 2008, when Barack Obama was actually elected president and began his transition after the election

hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 6:45 a.m

No goldie, my conversations with him were not in person. I'm sure he was very cordial when you were talking to him but so is a used car salesman when he's trying to sell you a piece of scrap dressed up as a new beauty. In fact, those are the best salesmen, aren't they. The ones that make the sale. I can't put my finger on one specific thing but in my talks (and arguments) with him, the red flags went up all over the place.

I believe he has a hidden agenda that we will eventually see. If not, my mistake, but I reserve my right to decide.

hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's more than shameful religious leaders are exploiting the Newton tragedy to pedal their individual brands of snake oil. I can imagine what the pulpits are preaching this Sunday to their donors.

**Right-wing author: Jon Stewart part of the culture that led to shootings**

*According to one right-wing author, the "Daily Show" host has helped "drive [God] out of our society" VIDEO*

New York Times bestselling author Joel Rosenberg tied Jon Stewart to the shootings in Newtown, Conn., because Stewart is part of “the cultural war against Jesus and Christmas” that helps “drive [God] out of our society, our of our schools and courts.”

In a blog post, Rosenberg cites the ongoing so-called War on Christmas, and how “We are, in many respects, in a moral and spiritual freefall in our country, and we are paying a terrible price.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/right_wing_author_jon_stewart_part_of_the_culture_that_led_to_shootings/

nailingit — December 23, 2012 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Madore...Vancouver's Grover Norquist.

nailingit — December 23, 2012 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Michael Tomasky: **The GOP Brings Politics to a Crisis Point**

*With their refusal to vote for Boehner’s Plan B, Republicans have definitively shown that they’d rather sabotage democracy than govern. How can they be stopped?*

Really, what is to be done about this Republican Party? What force can change it—can stop Republicans from being ideological saboteurs and convert at least a workable minority of them into people interested in governing rather than sabotage? With the failed Plan B vote, we have reached the undeniable crisis point. Actually we’ve been at a crisis point for years, but this is really the all-upper-case Undeniable Crisis Point. They are a direct threat to the economy, which could slip back into recession next year if the government doesn’t, well, govern. They are an ongoing, at this point almost mundane, threat to democracy, subverting and preventing progress the American people clearly desire across a number of fronts.

They have to be stopped, and the only people who can really stop them are corporate titans and Wall Streeters, who surely now are finally beginning to see that America’s problem is not Barack Obama and his alleged “socialism,” but a political party that has become psychologically incapable of operating within the American political system.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/23/michael-tomasky-the-gop-brings-politics-to-a-crisis-point.html

nailingit — December 23, 2012 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.

Point taken.

Now that I think about it...his agenda when he posted on the forum awhile back...was to get himself into the political arena. At first...maybe just in the capacity of a business owner/activist but then he changed his mind, I'm guessing. It seems to me that he hesitated running for office, then he ran...then he backed down then ran again when it came to commissioner and won his seat in office. Maybe that has something to do with it. I'm thinkin' "greenhorn in politics," but then again...he appears to be politically savvy.

I'll continue with my ears open and a keen eye when it comes to him or any other politician for that matter, and I'm pretty sure you will too. I've heard time and time again over the years to trust our intuition...our gut instincts. I respect the fact that yours is raising a ginormous red flag.

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — December 23, 2012 at 7:57 a.m.

I remember hearing awhile back about Frankenfish through one of those websites who fight anything being genetically altered...much like Organic Consumers Assn. A few years back, rumors of salmon in the Willamette actually changing gender...not sure if that truly happened. If it did, I'd be pointing the finger at the fisheries industry...possibly through the feed the salmon smolts are given before released.

Already, there are infertile trout through specific breeding at hatcheries...aka "Triploid Trout," genetically altered fish. This pdf file I've shared explains in general about the process:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/fes/pdf/vol_12-1.pdf

Luvithere, it is my opinion that purposefully genetically altering anything in the food chain is a hazardous process which will inevitably cause irreparable damage to our food supply and the food supply of every other living organism.

Any fish raised in fish farms or hatcheries, I'm very skeptical about eating any more. I'm also very skeptical about eating tuna, sturgeon and other larger bottom feeders.

These times...they are a changin'...and it concerns me for what I am witnessing.

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere...

I also found an Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife study which provided information regarding the possibility of triploid trout being at a higher risk for pathogens and could eventually spread these pathogens onto healthy diploid trout. I was unable to locate the results of this test program which stemmed from 2008 - 2009.

I'm wondering...will the fast-growing salmon they're producing also have that issue???

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Given the source quite unsettling, yet validates what many of us thought of Romney. This guy not only lacked the desire to lead our country, he had a disdain for it.*

*We're basically a two party system, and one party puts forward someone who doesn't want to do the work.*

**The story behind Mitt Romney’s loss in the presidential campaign to President Obama**

While candidates often try to portray themselves as reluctant, Tagg insisted his father’s stance was genuine.

“He wanted to be president less than anyone I’ve met in my life. He had no desire to . . . run,” said Tagg, who worked with his mother, Ann, to persuade his father to seek the presidency. “If he could have found someone else to take his place . . . he would have been ecstatic to step aside. He is a very private person who loves his family deeply and wants to be with them, but he has deep faith in God and he loves his country, but he doesn’t love the attention.”

Read more @ http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/president/2012/12/23/the-story-behind-mitt-romney-loss-the-presidential-campaign-president-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html

nailingit — December 23, 2012 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Goldie, thanks for the links and info. Will peruse later after the Black Forest Cherry cake is baked. All I have to say" genetically modified food scares the heck out of me. Although in some instances, it is a good thing as it can stave off starvation of millions. But when the chemical company gets into the food biz, I am very very cautious.

As for Madore: I am with Hawk. That man sets off a whole slew of red flags with me, but not sure why. But there is something very odd with him; that eternal smile for starters...First off, as a lowly county comish he has zero say in CRC anyway, and I wish people would admit to that. Second, that was his only topic - so what else is he interested in? Third, any time someone rants about regulations, my flags go up again. We can definitely benefit from streamlining regulations, but we cannot get rid of many of them. I prefer to leave a bit of unspoiled earth to my future grand kids. I will give him time to proof himself, but he has lots to do to get any type of approval from here.

Nail-if John Steward is now also to be blamed for our "evil" culture, then I can't wait to watch the next few episodes. He is going to make mincemeat out of them. Should be lots of fun to watch.

luvithere — December 23, 2012 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere...you are so right. When the chemical companies involve themselves...that's the red flag moment there.

Regarding the comment, "First off, as a lowly county comish he has zero say in CRC anyway, and I wish people would admit to that." That is where I say you are right...but you are also wrong. We have all the say in the world regarding the CRC. Not that we're always heard, but sometimes our concerns are met and they give a little. As it stands right now, for those of us who believe in a bridge similar to the design fundamentals of I-205 could eventually be looked over IF the USCG doesn't approve the 115-116' height restrictions. And there's more. The permit process is quite lengthy. I honestly do not see this bridge being built even if the two states agree on funding terms. Check out this government website on government permits yet to be dealt with. Only one has been completed:

http://permits.performance.gov/projects/interstate-5-columbia-river-crossing

goldenoldie — December 23, 2012 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gold, county commissioners do not make the decision on this one. I don't care how much he is against it, he cannot veto it in the end. Mind you, I am no supporter of this disaster myself, and I wish us locals would have a say. Considering it is us that will have to pay the tolls. If this is such an important national traffic corridor, well then, don't ask me to pay all the money in tolls for all eternity - especially if it is for light rail. Let Portland clean up their traffic mess also - I have not yet been stuck on the bridge, but I have spent an hour on two blocks over there trying to get to the bridge.

Why do I even say all these things? LOL. We all know them anyway.

PS: that cake...smells divine. Tomorrow we add the whipped cream, cherries, and schnaps to it. Then we eat!

luvithere — December 23, 2012 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I like carrot cake with whipped cream frosting. In case anybody cares.

It made me crazy during the elections that Madore kept saying that he could control the bridge and light rail. That's some kind of arrogance, if you ask me. Of course many people believed what he was shoveling and that's how he got elected. Now, it's going to be fun to see him try to back up his B.S.

hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***How can this be? A Republicant Senator and upstanding Mormon***

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) — Idaho U.S. Sen. Michael Crapo was arrested early Sunday morning and charged with driving under the influence in a Washington, D.C., suburb, authorities said.

Police in Alexandria, Va., said Sunday that the Idaho Republican was pulled over after his vehicle ran a red light. Police spokesman Jody Donaldson said Crapo failed field sobriety tests and was arrested at about 12:45 a.m. without incident. He was transported to the Alexandria jail and released on an unsecured $1,000 bond at about 5 a.m..

"There was no refusal (to take sobriety tests), no accident, no injuries," Donaldson said. "Just a traffic stop that resulted in a DUI."

Donaldson said he didn't immediately know what Crapo's blood alcohol level was, where he was coming from or the type of vehicle he was driving.

Crapo (KRAY'-poh) has a Jan. 4 court date.

Messages left for a Crapo spokesman weren't immediately returned Sunday night.

Currently in his third term, Crapo has been in the Senate since 1998, and served for six years in the U.S. House of Representatives before that. He was easily re-elected in 2010, and won't have to run again until 2016.

In Congress, Crapo has built a reputation as a staunch social and fiscal conservative. It has been expected he would take over the top Republican spot next year on the Senate Banking Committee. He also serves on the Senate's budget and finance panels. Crapo was a member of the so-called "Gang of Six" senators that worked in 2011 toward a deficit-reduction deal that was never adopted by Congress.

A Mormon from Idaho Falls, Idaho, Crapo has five children with his wife, Susan, and three grandchildren.

hawkeye — December 23, 2012 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal



**MADORE**
haven't talked to him, personally *or* otherwise. i have good feelings about him,though. anybody who'd spend so much time fighting for *the people's* will can't be so bad.

**CHRISTMAS**
best time of the year. today, i got my food today for The Day. maybe after the 1st i can afford a present for my son. no matter. CHRIST is what the season is about, and it appears to me to be that 'merry christmas' is prevailing against 'happy holidays'. GOOD ENOUGH.

**FRANKENFISH**
with the exception of truly beneficial chemical enhancements to food DNA, science should *stay out of meddling with food*. con-agra's meddling in corn dna has already shown to increase cancer in those who eat it. *just what is it going to take before we stop ruining our children's future with unbridled, senseless experimentation?

**madore, obama and romney**
the election **is over**, thank God. Give It A Rest already.

**CHRISTMAS SEASON**
this is the season of hope, forgiveness, love and peace "unto all mankind".

can't we at least focus on this for the next three days? there are hundreds of uplifting stories of courage and blessings all around us: why are we regurgitating the same claptrap we've waded through all year? there are uplifting stories all around us that are befitting The Season. let's hear *those*....at least once a year, ok?

and for all those in the basement, believers or otherwise, MERRY CHRISTMAS and my GOD BLESS US, ONE AND ALL.

DeeLittle — December 24, 2012 at 12:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Help me Obama! :)) This bountiful bagger firestarter needs to put out his own fires.

**Florida Ports Strike: Rick Scott Asks Obama For Help**

MIAMI, Dec 22 (Reuters) - Florida's Republican governor wants President Barack Obama to invoke federal law and order a cooling-off period if nearly 15,000 longshoremen walk off the job in a looming strike that would be a big blow to the state's economy, according to a letter he sent the president this week.

The International Longshoremen's Association union and the U.S. Maritime Alliance grouping of shippers and ports have been bargaining since March but reportedly remain far from a deal covering cargo handling at 15 ports on the U.S. Gulf and eastern coasts.

In October, when a previous contract expired, the sides agreed to a 90-day extension of terms that runs out on Dec. 29.

Florida ports in Miami and Fort Lauderdale would be directly hit by a strike or lockout but a stoppage would also rattle overall transport and trade, which accounts for 550,000 jobs in the state and $66 billion in economic activity, Florida Governor Rick Scott said in a letter dated Thursday.

"The threat to national safety and security that would result from mass closure of ports cannot be overstated," Scott told Obama.

Scott said Obama had the power under 1947's Taft-Hartley Act to prevent or interrupt a work stoppage at the ports. Presidents Richard Nixon and George W. Bush both used Taft-Hartley, which calls for 80-day cooling-off periods and mediation, Scott said.

"The Taft-Hartley Act provides your administration with tools that can help avoid this threat," Scott said. "On behalf of the State of Florida, I respectfully request that you invoke the act when the contract ... expires at the end of the month."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/florida-ports-strike_n_2353178.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — December 24, 2012 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**End Of The World On Christmas Eve? Mayan Calendar's 13th Baktun May Actually End December 24**

The Kukulkan Pyramid in Chichen Itza, Mexico is still here. Just like the rest of the world.
After months of bunker-stocking, NASA-calling, and party planning, Dec. 21, 2012 passed with the world still firmly in place.

If you believed, however, that the end of the Mayan calendar's 13th baktun would indeed signify the end of the world, you might not want to breath easy just yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/end-of-the-world-christmas-eve_n_2355787.html?utm_hp_ref=weird-news

nailingit — December 24, 2012 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**There really is a war on Christmas!**

*And it's being fought by some of the bravest atheists in the country, nonbelievers in rural areas and the heartland*

The Times Square billboard is not shy about its war on Christmas: “Keep the merry, dump the myth,” it reads, juxtaposing an image of jolly St. Nick with one of Christ’s agony on the cross. Sponsored by Cranford, N.J.-based American Atheists, the sign is funded in significant part by small-town nonbelievers nationwide.

“In New Jersey and the New York area, you don’t have as much of a feeling of oppression. We have a very diverse population,” says American Atheists managing director Amanda Knief, explaining the group’s backing in rural and small-town America. She points out that their 2010 national convention in Newark, which included an Easter Sunday trip to the American Museum of Natural History, attracted few local participants. By contrast, the 2011 850-person Des Moines gathering drew more than half of its attendees from inside the state. “It was the first opportunity in Iowa for people who were non-religious to come together. And it was the first time where it was safe to do so.”

Forget Hollywood and the Upper West Side. The angriest atheists are from the American heartland, where they live surrounded by the faithful. A 2007 Pew Research Center study found that 50 percent of rural atheists and agnostics see a “natural conflict between being a non-religious person and living in a society where most people are religious.” That’s 10 points higher than among their urban counterparts. Maybe Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly has been looking for the War on Christmas and its “secular progressive” leaders in all the wrong places.

“Here’s the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak” in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. “Where religion is strong, atheism is strong.” Zuckerman has found that people in Scandinavian countries like Denmark and Sweden, among the world’s most profoundly nonreligious, generally eschew the “atheist” label and even marry in Lutheran churches. He labels the dominant attitude “benign indifference.”

“In small-town USA, people are much more likely to be anti-religious because they have religion thrown in their face all the time — prayers at little league, prayers at city council meetings, Nativity scenes and Ten Commandments billboards, preachers on the radio and TV, etc. — and their lack of religion is often associated with being immoral.”

But take out the conservative Christian dominance, he says, and “the natural default position of secularity is a mere indifference to religion.”

Read more @ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/23/there_really_is_a_war_on_christmas/

nailingit — December 24, 2012 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


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