Open forum, Dec 23-29



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I just sent a letter to John Hill.


As you know, you have banned me from commenting on the Facebook side. Now you are asking everyone to pay to view your paper online. I feel that IF I’m going to have to pay to read articles from your paper, I should be allowed to comment on them without restriction. This is no longer an “open” forum and as such should not be subject to strict rules you previously put in place. I am holding my payment until I hear from you.


hawkeye — December 23, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Merry Christmas, movie house! Merry Christmas, Emporium! Merry Christmas, you wonderful old Building and Loan!"

And, Merry Christmas, eclectic and diverse Forum!! Wishing each of you lots of downtime, great eats, and absolutly no stress through all the holiday season. Well, for always would be so much better, although that's probably a little much, even for wishes. Not sure how often anyone will be checking in here the next few days so wanted to acknowledge the Season a bit early.

jacjak — December 23, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm wondering if the pay wall was truly driven by economic necessity - If it was, then The Columbian just may be on its last legs. The facebook side has turned into a virtual wasteland, with a few regular commenters and a dozen or so who appear to be going the twenty per month free route. I'm finding it so boring I actually took Jim Moeller's side (in a round about way) in an argument over the Constitution. (That Wilson lady who decided to run against Stonier is scary. The Clark County Repub party keeps going further Right.)

Hawkeye - I'm trying to figure out why you'd want to go back to facebook commenting. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty you'd like to say whenever there's an M&M; article (among other things), but how long until you get the boot again? My observation is that several of the people who post there are into pushing buttons - making stupid or inflammatory comments to try to piss someone off. (I was just called an idiot the other day - by someone who can't spell.) And no offense, but your tolerance level is pretty low for that stuff - when someone gets you riled up then you cut loose with both barrels. And then they go running to John Hill to tell on you.

But I'm not into this business of permanent banning. (My facebook tells me who posted to a thread I'm involved with, and every so often Bob Larrimer's name pops up. But there's never anything there from him, and no extra comments.)

roger — December 23, 2013 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I saw that you were called an idiot the other day. Really that is a good thing. It means you said something true that got under some person skin. I thought it was kinda funny. It has got boring over on the other side. The ones that keep things moving are mostly gone. Although I do like reading Jeffery. He is pretty level headed most of the time. Terry Jefferies still keeps things going. And then we have Yancey. Always good to hear what dunder heads have to say.

timerick — December 23, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: How you got banned and some of the others are still railing away: well, just call me flabbergasted.

I get the best info and insights from the C cubed G squared FB site. You post some very insightful and funny lines there, I noticed. 'Course, they all are fairly friendly and on the same side of the argument, aren't they?

roger: I predicted the downfall of the Seattle Times when they went to paywall and hell, they are still going strong without my infusion of cash. Wish Bezos or Buffet had purchased that newspaper.

manthou — December 23, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I haven't received any mail from Hill. Probably off for he week. The notice I got said I had 1 more article so I guess I'll be out of here soon unless I pay. I wonder if it goes by months or 30 days from the time you pay to the next charge. Hmmmm

I'd really like to get a response before I pay, if I pay.

It's not about being able to post on the FB side, this is much more entertaining and educational, it's more about if I have to pay, I should have full access and so should everyone else that has to pay. This is no longer an open system but a pay for use system and as such should be available to ALL that pay.

Roger, as far as Larimer posting, he's in the same boat as I am though he might not know it. If he answers a post, it will notify but his post won't show to anyone but himself.

hawkeye — December 23, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ron Goodman posted the County HR Manual last week when I asked about noncompetitive hiring.

I've pulled some extracts that, to me, make it clear the County Comms have no authority to deviate from standard hiring practice - That this would have had to have been approved by Bill Barron. Am I making this too simle? To be honest, the only way I can see they could have legitimately done this is through an interpretation that the Comms are "The County", and if that is the case, then they can do whatever they want.

Policy No. 1.0 Purpose and Scope of Manual
"The County reserves the right to amend these policies and to grant exceptions or handle selected matters differently as warranted." (WHO IS THE COUNTY?)
1. Board of County Commissioners: This manual is authorized pursuant to the authority of
the Board of County Commissioners and is effective upon its adoption. Amendments or exceptions to the manual in the following areas may only be approved by the Board of County Commissioners: ( ALL COMPENSATION RELATED)
2. County Administrator Authority: The County Administrator is delegated authority from the Board of County Commissioners to approve new policies, revisions, and exceptions in the following areas:
a) Recruitment and selection practices: Recruitment policies, pre-employment testing
and appointment procedures, affirmative action and equal opportunity measures, transfer, promotion, and demotion policies. (BILL BARRON WOULD HAVE HAD TO MAKE THE EXCEPTION TO HIRE BENTON NONCOMPETITIVELY)

-- "County Elected Official” means the Clark County Commissioners, Assessor, Auditor, Clerk, Superior and District Court Judges, Prosecuting Attorney, Sheriff, and Treasurer.
-- M1 Major Department Head, seconds in command of elected departments and certain senior staff positions.
-- “Appointing Authority” means a person authorized by these policies to make appointments.
-- “Appointment” means the hiring, transfer, demotion, or promotion of an employee to a
vacant regular position

Policy No. 5.0 Recruitment and Selection
1. With the request or approval of the Appointing Authority, vacant and available positions
may be filled without posting or a competitive selection process by the following means:
j) By appointment, at the discretion of the County Administrator or Elected Official, to M1 positions, unique M2 positions, appointed Department Heads and chief deputies to Elected

roger — December 23, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm wondering just what's going on with the facebook side. I've got a couple of comments to the Wilson running against Stonier article that have gone to some sort of LaLaLand. And this isn't something changing the sort option will affect.

Some guy took exception to my saying Wilson represents a political dogma (and I forget my exact words), and we went back and forth a couple of times. I forget some of what I said in my last post, but I noted he was basing his argument on concepts, such as "will of the people" and "fairness", and observed that if the elected types were required to follow these, then a whole lot of them would be in prison. I can no longer see this comment, but he could - and answered it (quite evasively, though).

John Ley and a few others were jumping another Roger about his saying Monica was quite successful in her first term. I posted a link to the State Legislative website page that shows exactly what bills she sponsored, and also noted she was Vice Chair of Education. I'm not seeing that comment.

roger — December 23, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — December 23, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

In that case, should we be discussing whether to present a Forum demand that we be able to link to the facebook side for anonymous "Forum name" commenting? The Columbian knows who we are, and could continue to take "corrective actions" if someone gets stupid with this. And I'm less than impressed with their monitoring anyhow. The insults of "Liar Leavitt" and the M&M; Boys could take pages to fill. Steinke was told to quit his cut and paste attack and to stay on topic; last I saw, he was still doing this. Mike Yancey routinely attacks Repub losers with his little "HaHa - You lost" posts. And I suppose I could go look and find a few more examples.

Oh - We who paid up got a "special invite" from Editor Lou to the advance sale of his latest batch of cups. The deadbeats have to wait until tomorrow. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I sense that the "pay to play" isn't as successful as they'd like.

roger — December 23, 2013 at 6:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 23, 2013 at 6:01 p.m

Lynda Wilson is as dogmatic as you suspect, Roger. That's if the dogma you referred to is on the far right of the GOP. The fact that she's chair of the CC Republican party is not as telling as her PDC donations and who they're too. DeWils is generous to their political party, and it's their money, but it's always the max allowed by both Wilsons, plus employees, tho perhaps employees are family or on the board or something. Don't know. I'd have to verify, but she totally supported Crain, Peterson, and Olson, giving the max for both the primary and the general. For me checking out the PDC is one of those things that some folks like to do, especially during the primary or the lobbists. It's easy to see who is supporting who when there's multiple candidates all running for the same position.

It's my impression that the CC GOP has become quite rigid. Not sure if that's Wilson's influence, or if there will ever be some sort of catharsis that will slow the move to the right of right, or if it will become the new normal. Stonier was told to her face that she was the BIG target in the House for the GOP, and that they intended to take her out. Not sure why that is as she has worked well across the isle on issues, even with Paul Harris. I sure know I intend to pay real close attention to Wilson, who contributes to her, and to every word she puts on mailers.

jacjak — December 23, 2013 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak: Clark County Republicans are loving that advisory vote map that shows how red most of the county is. Of course, they thought they could unseat Leavitt, retain Stuart and gain two city council members by putting Decker and Doan in office in Vancouver. Monica Stonier, indeed, was very moderate in her votes and kept her promises. But the Repubs in control don't want moderate.

Speaking of which: Benton's grandstanding against Planned Parenthood is an attempt to keep his name and face in the far right spotlight, endearing him to his base. Notice he was careful enough to state that he does not know if wrongdoing has occurred.

This group has been suing Planned Parenthoods across the nation. It is difficult to find main stream press stories that cover it, but there is plenty of propaganda on right wing media. One state's AG and the GAO did not find sufficient evidence to actually conduct an investigation. The wrongdoing found seems to focus on sending clients a year's supply of Federally-funded birth control pills and re-stocking the pills that come back as undeliverable.

I am all for accountability in government-funded programs, don't get me wrong. But Don Benton is less concerned about being a responsible watchdog of the people or he would have declined the CC gift job in the first place. This latest move is about promoting Don Benton.

roger: If Greg Ferguson is able to get a settlement out of CC, no wrong-doing will be admitted as part of the bargain, unfortunately. If it goes to trial, we will learn a great deal more about Madore and Mielke's thinking errors and rationalizations and Largent is likely to win a great deal more from a jury.

manthou — December 24, 2013 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — December 24, 2013 at 5:45 a.m.

I still have a real problem with the other side of how that Benton hiring played out. We're focused on Madore and Mielke, but all Bill Barron did was say this action would harm the morale at County. If I'm reading the manual correctly, it was within his positional authority to tell them they CAN'T hire Benton noncompetitively because he didn't approve it. And then we had Stuart pissed off because it appeared those two had discussed this hiring off the record (which isn't allowed), and he notes that if they'd have played by the rules and discussed it in session, they have the 2-1 majority to make it happen anyhow. Then we also had a series of e-mails between Madore and Barron discussing the change to the position's job description, with Barron in full agreement. And then Barron suddenly ups and retires early.

DogCat was quite persistent in claiming the whole picture at County isn't known by all, and he was very down on Barron. I'm inclined to think he was right and there is some major dirt there - a history that goes way beyond Madore. And while an EEO complaint has to stay limited in scope, having this complaint go to a hearing would still (most likely) expose a lot more of that ice berg than just whether Don Benton was hired improperly.

roger — December 24, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And before I forget - A happy holiday season to all.

roger — December 24, 2013 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Benton doesn't come across as a religious conservative who would take up this planned parenthood thing. Possibly some payoff to the M&M; bros for opening the enviro job back door? Most things aren't usually done for nothing, especially in the political arena. In a conservative's mindset, this could be a 'noble' payback. A payback that Benton can perform in his position that M&M; couldn't. Just at thought...

nailingit — December 24, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe nail but that is a far right religious area. They want planned parenthood gone. They offer no exceptions. Wrong thinking in my mind. And a very Merry Christmas to all on the forum.

timerick — December 24, 2013 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

OK - Someone named OBrien who lists himself as Asst General Counsel for Legacy Health posted a link to the case Benton is citing - Bloedow vs. Planned Parenthood of the Greater Northwest. If he'd have searched a little harder, he would have found that the case was dismissed due to lack of jurisdiction. When the overcharging being cited in the original complaint occurred (2003-2009), Bloedow would have had to be the Attorney General or the original source of the information - he was neither. The law was amended in 2010 to allow public disclosure complaints, but this was too late per the dismissing judge.

What Benton wants is for the State Auditor to review Bloedow's complaint and determine whether there's any basis in fact to it. Bloedow (partly using info from a Calif case) says Planned Parenthood bought birth control in bulk at $6 per unit, and then charged the State Dept Health Svcs retail prices, or over $16 per unit over that span. The total overcharge for that period is around $377 million. If the Auditor can in fact determine the truth here (something I don't know), and if the Auditor validates the data in the complaint, then Benton wants him to go further and find out why no one in DHS caught this.

Putting aside who told Benton of the case and any politics that may be involved, there seems to be a real problem up in Olympia. This is the second department that appears to have shoddy contract administration - WSDOT being the other.

roger — December 24, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To all my Basement mates... Merry Christmas... You have all enlightened me, entertained me and made this a great place to exchange ideas and thoughts. May everyone be safe this holiday season.

vanwadreamer — December 24, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And a hearty Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Hanukah/Quanza/New Year//Whatever I left out/And Life to all.

nailingit — December 24, 2013 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy solstice, merry Xmas, and whatever else type of holiday you are celebrating. Here's to continued exchange of ideas in the basement.
Made the traditional German dinner, followed by Black Forest Cherry cake. feeling stuffed and satisfied. The eggnog with rum probably helped.

Wonder how many signed up for the C so far. Have the feeling it is a small number. And for 18 bucks the online edition should have every article accessible and we should be able to post on the other side. I agree with Hawk on that. And Hawk: happy birthday!

luvithere — December 24, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

.....//Man arrested after killing father's goat as 'sacrifice to God'///

By The Chronicle, Centralia
Published: December 24, 2013, 5:23 PM

A 22-year-old Toledo man was charged with felony animal cruelty Monday after he allegedly killed his father's goat with a bow and arrow to "make a sacrifice to God. "Deputies arrested Kameron D. Williams Saturday afternoon..."


.....Kameron is also rumored to be a frontrunner for the 2016 republican presidential nomination---local weather---cold-rainy-and miserable enters it's 216th @ILUVF'INGPNW#BoneAchingHell consecutive day---Santa Claus-[aka Vitiligo]-comes out as a bi-racial existentialist---on FOX news sunday-Rick Santorum answered claims he fathered a 22 year old Buckeye boy named Kameron-saying, "Not to the best of my recollection"---more news at God knows when.....Joyeux Noël

nailingit — December 24, 2013 at 11:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I hope you all got what you wanted for Christmas. If you go out driving to and from remember to be careful and please turn your headlights on. I was surprised that there were so many people out yesterday driving in the fog without turning them on. One gal in an SUV was on the phone, had her children in the car, doing well over forty in a 35 MPH zone and no headlights. When I caught her at a stop I wished her a Merry Christmas. She told me I was number 1 with her to. Oh well. She just didn't have the spirit yet.

But for the most part it was a good eve. Happy happy joy joy Hawk and many more.

JohnCasey — December 25, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, I hope everyone's Christmas went well. Looks like we all had better things to do than get on here!.

Corvin had an optimistic piece about the job picture improving the other day. The C's editorial today puts a damper on that - The increase seems to be disproportionately with part time jobs. I wonder what the correlation is between this increase and the expiration of unemployment benefits? Also, if the Fed does cut back on their bond program, interest rates should rise. We're heavily dependent on home and business construction here - The impact on this? All things considered, I'm thinking the editorial noting that any improvement is built on a very shaky foundation hits the nail on the head - we've got a long way to go, and there are some economists who say the worst isn't over - we've got another drop coming.

roger — December 26, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems like a wasteland in here.

roger — December 27, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You can thank the Columbian for that.

goldenoldie — December 27, 2013 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm still here, reading. I haven't seen anything in the paper I wish to comment on. I suppose I could offer my opinion on today's "In Our View: Marijuana and Minors," but I'd have to work a bit to come up with something. Something other than mentioning there are 20 medweed states, not, "Some 19..."

I'll check the comments over the course of the day. Maybe those'll give me something to work with; without working too hard. ☺

(feeling a bit lazy this morning)

Drift — December 27, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 27, 2013 at 6:25 a.m
goldenoldie — December 27, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.

Probably has more to do with the holidays... at least I hope so. For our house, more company arriving tomorrow plus hubby is on vacation this week, which is nice. Will peek in whenever there's a chance between now and after the new year tho, if possible. In the meantime someone gave me a book of Sudoku Varients for Christmas. Waaaaay too fun. And I was completely addicted to just regular Sudoku before...I'm a goner now for sure!

Sort of refreshing to take a bit of a break from the wah-wah-wah of media coverage of news, which is usually bleak, horrid and sad. And of course, the politics, with it's agenda driven manipulation and it's not-very-well-hidden intended worry, angst, malaise, and fear for a few days. Always like long magazine or indepth newpaper articles (like NYT or WP) for those reasons, and not only the small snapshot bits of most news coverage which someone else thinks is relevent for me to know. Probably miss all sorts of the 'must know' stuff, but there it is.

Hope none of you are being effected by the air inversion. This foggy cold is becoming tiresome. Happy New Year! 2014 fast approaching with the End of the World in 2012 and the threat of Y2K long past. So, what next?

jacjak — December 27, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I talked with Hawkeye yesterday and he is waiting for the first of the month to get his 30 hits. I have not been able to talk him in to paying. Good article yesterday on truck traffic on 39th st.. I know Greg Martin. He is a retired Vancouver fire captain. He makes a good point how the city ignores things they don't want to deal with. Especially when they are the ones that made the mistake.

timerick — December 27, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

///Pope Francis Reaches Out To Atheists In Pontiff's First Christmas Day Message, Urging Global Peace///

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis, celebrating his first Christmas as Roman Catholic leader, on Wednesday called on atheists to unite with believers of all religions and work for "a homemade peace" that can spread across the world.

Speaking to about 70,000 people from the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, the same spot where he emerged to the world as pope when he was elected on March 13, Francis also made another appeal for the environment to be saved from "human greed and rapacity".

The leader of the 1.2 billion-member Church wove his first "Urbi et Orbi" (to the city and world) message around the theme of peace.

"Peace is a daily commitment. It is a homemade peace," he said.

He said that people of other religions were also praying for peace, and - departing from his prepared text - he urged atheists to join forces with believers.

"I invite even non-believers to desire peace. (Join us) with your desire, a desire that widens the heart. Let us all unite, either with prayer or with desire, but everyone, for peace," he said, drawing sustained applause from the crowd.

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people of other religions is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.

Read more @

nailingit — December 27, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Greg has been a good friend for a long time. I live just around the corner and experience the Truck traffic everyday ..some of the worst offenders are local truck companies.. You wouldn't think of.. JJ Storedahl and Frito Lays consistantly drove too fast.. And the redesign of the street is terrible... Like you said though the city created the problems for the most part...

vanwadreamer — December 27, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Vanwadreamer I have known Greg for 30 years or more. He has expressed to me several times the problem with the trucks. I was raised on 46th and Columbia back in the 50s and 60s. 39th st. should by no means be used as a truck route. Most kids in that area bike or walk to either Lincoln or Our Lady of Lords.

timerick — December 27, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: I saw your thoughtful comments on the FB side about the 39th Street freight traffic issue. Many people do not realize how quiet that area once was. I very much want to move south of 4th Plain because I hate that truck route barrier, as well. I have never seen a city with so many truck routes that bisect residential and small business areas as Vancouver. Seems like very poor planning.

I commend the Lincoln neighbors for their tenacity to keep fighting for the freight ban, but I don't look forward to trying to cross 4th Plain on foot with the increased traffic that will bring, either.

We are fortunate to be far enough away from 39th and 4th Plain (about in the middle each way) not to have to endure the window-rattling rumbles, but both streets are dangerous for pedestrians and both streets have students crossing them to access VSAA and Discovery MS on foot. Many foresighted folks sold their homes on 39th awhile ago and there is an increase in businesses along that route as a result. 4th Plain will be widened eventually, maybe sooner than later if freight traffic is banned from 39th.

Ah, progress and transportation. Vancouver does not seem to be able to escape it in any form.

manthou — December 27, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I am way out of sync with the WW readers. Here is a list of their top ten stories of the year.

I cannot wait to see what got the most hits from The Columbian. I give up on trying to predict what they will be, given how off-base I was with what grabbed the WWeekers:

manthou — December 27, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I found this article from 2 years ago.

Port-generated trucks are between 20 and 50 percent of the general truck population. The average is 30 to 40 percent.

Port trucks favor Mill Plain as the day begins; in the 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. range, the vast majority use Mill Plain. Then, at midday, port traffic on Fourth Plain also climbs — although it still doesn’t usually approach, and only rarely exceeds, the volume on Mill Plain. Port truck traffic on Fourth Plain drops off again by midafternoon, as more trucks choose Mill Plain.

The general truck population maintains a more constant route split throughout the day. That population uses 39th Street to a greater extent than port trucks do.

I recall an article about several months ago about some sort of railroad crossing improvement on 39th leading to more Port truckers using that route. Still, is it likely that much of the increase is local traffic, going to the stores that have sprung up as the area has grown?

Light rail crossing Mill Plain/15th Street on Broadway and Washington will have priority, and will make that route much less desirable for trucking.

roger — December 27, 2013 at 6:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And I found this from 2002. They'd just finished the Mill Plain widening project to the Port, and were excited about expansion into the Columbia Gateway area. Problem was, an environmental group, led by an attorney named John Karpinski (where have I heard this name from in the recent past?) was fighting to stop it, claiming the wetlands were critical. Fast forward to today - Isn't this the area now being looked at for Tesoro? That fight is still going on, but there's a good chance the opposition to earlier Port expansion bit those opponents in the you know where. Pres Obama realizes you can't stop both coal and oil, and he wants to let Big Oil have its way. (Somehow, I don't expect our local Democratic party to jump on that bandwagon, however.)

roger — December 27, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Appreciate your posting those articles, which provide interesting background information about the Port route shuffle in Vancouver. Wish we truly had a truck route like Kelso/Longview: through an industrial area.

The Arnada Neighborhood Association is trying to make sure Bart Hansen remembers that they have a similar beef with freight traffic on 4th Plain Blvd, too.

It appears to me that the demographics of downtown historic district residents have changed over the past several years, with many informed community activists moving in and raising their voices against projects that used to be a cake walk in this area of the city. Residents here are responsible for that Port Tax unilateral increase fail a couple of years ago; the successful environmental court challenge against CC storm water practices; the re-routing of proposed light rail from Main Street to Kiggins Bowl to Broadway/Washington and E 17th; and they are raising a huge stink about Tesoro and coal trains.

It is far from boring and hard to keep up with the added civil activist energy here.

manthou — December 28, 2013 at 6 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another reason why, as "nice" as he is, I did NOT vote for Bill Turlay:

manthou — December 28, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wrong link above. Sorry.

Bill Turlay and climate science:

manthou — December 28, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That 'pilot' statement is right up there with being an environmental manager because dude didn't leave the water running. BTW, Turlay is another whom hides behind the "Federal Oath."

Hey, Lou, why don't you just put an ad for your stupid cups at the bottom of your weekly article? Your constant praising of your marketing strategy verges on narcissistic. Pathetically so.

Drift — December 28, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The $15/hour minimum wage in SeaTac has been stymied by a King County Superior Court judge, who claims our State Legislature intends the Port of Seattle (and consequently all Port authorities) to be an autonomous entity independent of the controls of local government. And the great majority of the jobs affected are at the airport.

This decision has some interesting ramifications locally with Port of Vancouver.

Can the City implement a revitalization plan that would have a negative impact on Port operations? I'm thinking light rail would make Mill Plain all but unusable for truckers - especially during the competing peak operating times in the morning and late afternoon.

When (if) this redevelopment plan progresses, will we find the City wanting to have some sort of influence over Port operations? Noise, smells, hours of plant operation, and traffic by truck, train and ship - all likely to impact on the Qi, the elan vitale, of that magnificent vision for the future? (And then there's the Big Dog in the picture that isn't getting a lot of discussion - the Port of Portland and that operation of theirs called Portland International Airport. Most cities I've lived in have more sense than to build directly under the flight path of jet airliners that are descending or taking off - they get a bit noisy at that time. And then there's the increased exposure to the aviation fuel nastiness -- for example, But that's all to be ignored, because there's money to be made!)

(Yes - another page in my ongoing claim that Vancouver City Council does not have the best interests of the current residents of westside Vancouver at heart. They're working for the Big Dollar developers and investors who stand to make billions over the long term building this "modern" city of theirs. You elected someone to City Council who has a track record of actually caring about the people and neighborhoods currently there - I would strongly encourage you to lean on Annie O and have her start asking the hard questions - What will your nice neighborhoods look like 20 years from now if development progresses as being planned?)

roger — December 28, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You are right Drift. Lou is kind of like chicken little. If you keep yelling the sky is falling pretty soon people will not take any notice. His constant ranting about the M&M; boys is going stale.We all know they will trip themselves up sooner than later. And the cups. They might be good for trap shooting. That is about the only use I see for them. There are other fish to fry in this town. He could start with our own city hall. Lots of fodder there I think. Might look at big tax breaks to big developers. To many big toes to step on for the Columbian to do that. I sure do wish Roger would have won a seat on the free holder board. He seems to have most of the bases covered around here. Good job Roger always interesting to read your take on things.

timerick — December 28, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi kids...

Apparently each devise you use has it's own 30 uses. I'm on my tablet. It's a little harder to type on but I only use one finger anyway so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for all the birthday wishes, you guys are like my surrogate family so it means a lot.

Vegas sucks. Not that I lost a bunch of money or anything, it just has no heart. Everything is stark and , for lack of a better word, distant. I think it's almost impossible to feel connected down there. Maybe because the area is so transient. Anyway, I don't think I'll be doing Christmas there again.

Hope everyone has a great New Year, talk to you later, hawk.

hawkeye — December 28, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just got back from Winco (the one out 117th Ave and 1whatever - by Praire HS). On sale - Beef rib roast (standing - bone in) at half off. Their expiration is tomorrow. I picked up two 7+ pounders for about $19 each. Had to dig a little, but I found a couple without too much fat. They'll be wrapped and in the deep freeze shortly.

And if you're into this kind of eating - Emeril has a good recipe on the internet. I leave one end of the top fat attached - fold it down and then back back over after seasoning. And rather than play around with his seasoning combo, Safeway sells something in a can in their Select brand called Mediterranean rub that does quite well. The au jus recipe he includes is fantastic - I used a cheaper Oregon brand cabernet sauvignon.

roger — December 28, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal///

-I was a Ron Paul delegate back in 2008 -- now I'm a Democrat. Here's my personal tale of disgust and self-discovery-

nailingit — December 28, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 28, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.

Always enjoy your cooking posts. Thanks for the sale tip, too. I was at Winco just this AM to pick up split peas to use up the rest of the Christmas ham, but determined to use up the stuff in the freezer before adding anything else in there. That means lots of sausages coming along in our near future dining menus, I guess. Went through a 'quest' to learn more about sauages which involved trips to different sausage kitchens and delicatessens around the area, then grilling during the summer. The learning was fun but got tired of sausages fairly rapidly. German sausages are great, Italian are much spicier but still good, but better with something like pastas.

nailingit — December 28, 2013 at 1:07 p.m.

Wow, quite a view of libertarianism Lynger gives. There was a discussion here a few months back regarding what Libertarians stood for but didn't come close to describing his inside views. Thanks for the link.

jacjak — December 28, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak - Where do you get the casings? I've been thinking about making my own pepperoni - the pre-sliced stuff doesn't cut it.

roger — December 28, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Has anybody read the story about the commission? Meilke says "WE are looking into everything". That "WE" must be a Madore mouse in his pocket. The Chambers of Commerce need the money they receive from the County and they do good things for their cities.

hawkeye — December 28, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One might note that the Pres of the Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce, Kelly Parker, continues to spend her time and energy lobbying to have the CRC project resurrected. In some corners, that's enough of a reason to cut off their funding.

What the County doles out to the local Chambers is really small potatoes. I think the earlier article said only one city (Ridgefield?) would experience any sort of significant impact. The real concern is the message being sent. This will end up ranking there with the Humane Society funding bit - a lot of arguing about how money is being spent.

However, just for the sake of looking into the issue, just what do the local Chambers of Commerce do? We've got the CREDC, which seems to accomplish a lot more toward attracting business than the Chambers have gotten press for doing.

And didn't some or all of the local Chambers speak out against eliminating the sales tax exemption for Oregonians, because it would hurt the bottom line of businesses? The GVCC was also against the sales tax initiative for the CRC and BRT for the same reason. Their leader (Parker) lobbies for these projects because they'll help improve the business environment, but she doesn't want businesses to have to pay for them? I think I'll go sit in old Tom's corner on this issue. (After they get done praying for divine guidance, that is.)

roger — December 28, 2013 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, as far as I'm concerned, no chamber should be involved in politics. They should be there as a public service to the public and to business for information. And for that service, they need to be funded by someone. I really haven't investigated all they do but it seems they should be non political.

hawkeye — December 28, 2013 at 10:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — December 28, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.

I can relate to the article. I voted for Andre Marrou in 92! Given the choices at the time...

People grow in different directions and I went haywire somewhere.

Always a soft spot in my heart for our well meaning Libertarian comrades. :)

nailingit — December 28, 2013 at 10:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 28, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.

Not to be a buttinsky or anything here, roger...but I know where you can acquire your sausage casings and it's just a mile or so down the road from you (that is, if you still live in Orchards). Take a quick trip over to Sportsman's Warehouse (not intended as an advertisement). When you go in, it's in the section near the smokers and camp stoves. You can't miss them. They have both types of casings...natural and the other kind (if they aren't sold out, lol). I believe BiMart (again, not intended as an advertisement) might have some as well on their back wall next to the smokers.

NAILS...I saw your comment back to me last week regarding the loss of a dear friend of mine. Thanks for the note. It meant a lot to me.

Here's a shout out for a slightly premature wish for a safe and Happy New Year to all in the forum and in Columbianland. My New Year's resolution for 2014...

Never to take life for granted. In the word of kindness...I intend to continue to pay it forward to all I come in contact with in my life.

Peace to all and Happy New Year, everyone.

goldenoldie — December 29, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As note to the chamber. There has been several business's that I know of that have stopped paying their dues since Kelly Parker came on board. They do not like the direction the chamber has taken. Dues for business are based on gross income and how many employee's they have. In years past it was very benifical to belong to the chamber. But a few of us saw a few years ago that the chamber was being controlled by Identity Clark County. That did not sit well with quite a few. Yes hawk it should be non political. But I doubt that will ever happen. Politics seems to stick its ugly head in to everything like the chamber.

timerick — December 29, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey goldenoldie. It took a food related item to bring you out of the forum closet! Now I know how to summon you. You mentioned resolutions. Mine is eating healthier and cleansing my soul with confession before ushering in the new year.


Most folks have their own personal demons to deal with. Something they've done. A decision they've made. Many wish if it were possible to change something they've done in the past, they would. From employment to relationships to spiritual growth, many reasons. Mine is a question of good conscience. I've admitted what I'm about to say to few and far between.

I voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980.

God forgive me.

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The Columbian should have their readers vote as opposed to C staffers. Hard to believe legalizing recreational marijuana wasn't in the top ten.

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - Thanks for the tip.

Nails - Voting for Reagan earned you an extended stay in Purgatory. There will be a lot of us there!

Hawkeye - Tim's first hand response is much better than I could give.

roger — December 29, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

///Commissioners wrangle over chamber aid///

-Vote to stop dues to chambers of commerce prompts look at their roles-

On the board of commissioners in Spokane County is Todd Mielke, the nephew of Clark County Commissioner Tom Mielke.

The younger Mielke is described as "a staunch fiscal conservative, a champion of small business, and a pragmatic leader" on the Spokane County website.

Clark County's Commissioner Mielke said his nephew has "always been a little more liberal than me," and stated that Spokane County simply has a higher cost of conducting government than Clark County is aiming for.

Maybe some Benton type nuts aren't falling too far from the tree.

///Todd Mielke Solicits a Bribe from Developer///

///Republican Todd Mielke: Tobacco Lobbyist Turned Politician///

///Todd Mielke Asked for Cash///

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail I didn't know you were so spiritual. I am also surprised to hear you leaned to the right. There is hope for you after all.

timerick — December 29, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails...I haven't had much time to post lately with the holidays and assisting in the laborious task of a friend's estate, along with the new guidelines of the C. You won't see my posts as often as you once did (much to some peoples' relief, lol), but as I'd said before...I'll still stick my nose in the forum once in awhile and maybe post a couple of times. It's hard to break away from the crazy but eclectic camaraderie of the forum misfits (meant in a nice manner). I'd miss all of ya, even if we are just a bunch of words on a computer screen...8)))

Regarding your choice for Reagan...his declining health condition in his later years could have had a lot to do with his decision-making, possibly urged on by those who were really in power??? I mean no disrespect to the Reagan family, just wondering about those who were REALLY in charge and how they manipulated his mental function for their benefit in order to obtain what they set out to achieve (ooh...conspiracy theory in the making???)...and yes, it is a general statement focusing on Reagan's presidential years. I'm his acting career - even though his sidekick was a cutie, I don't think Bonzo helped his election much since our government was already been run by a bunch of apes anyways. And Nails...I won't hold it against ya...8P

Roger...glad I could help.

goldenoldie — December 29, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — December 29, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.

I'll bring some cards!

timerick — December 29, 2013 at 10:51 a.m.

After the Carter gas lines and the botched hostage rescue attempt, I thought a hollywood B actor would be better. How wrong was I! And again, may the good Lord have mercy on my soul.

goldenoldie — December 29, 2013 at 11:32 a.m.

Reagan's failing mental health and those who controlled him was pre-curser to the Dubya presidency. Electing a complete numbskull (Bush) to the White House and having the puppet masters in charge. The same plan damn near worked again in 2008. Now we are forced to contend with a Reagan Democrat (Obama) in office.

God help us all.

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah-I was a young buck when I voted for Ronnie. Still that is no excuse. Back when some people believed one should vote for the best candidate for president regardless of party...LOLOLOL! Young, dumb, and full of...

Does anyone still believe that? I mean at the local level, barring your decision doesn't tip the balance of power, I suppose it is the best candidate regardless of party-sometimes.

To point, I can't imagine any reasonable person voting for a republican to be seated with Meilke & Madore on the BOCC. Hell, I could win that election if that was the choice......hey......there's an idea!

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails. You voted for Reagan? You voted for Reagan? You really did?
As young as I was back then (sooo young), I knew back then that he would be a bad bad bad decision. I was right. It just truly did not pass the smell test.

I have it on good authority from somebody who was close to Ronnie when his brain was officially off, that he was pretty much in bad shape during office already. Won't say who told me, but also puts old Nancy in a bad light (that needs no help really).

I just disagreed with his politics back then, still think lots is wrong that he set in motion. And he did NOT make the wall fall either.

You really voted for him. Once? Twice? Can I forgive you? I guess I should. Season and all. :) :)

luvithere — December 29, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, now there is yet another sign in for those that want to "comment on a forum". So far, it doesn't cost anything, I'm trying it out.

My computer crashed really good today, I don't know why but it did. I re-loaded the operating system, office and all the other crap. I had most everything backed up so I'm not totally devastated.

Go Hawks!! Great win.

Hawkman — December 29, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — December 29, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ya, well, it wouldn't let me use my old name, sooooo.

Hawkman — December 29, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — December 29, 2013 at 4:12 p.m.



((and I thought confession was supposed to be good for the soul-make you feel better and all that-now I'm being shamed by a fellow liberal))

The pain! Oh God how I've tried to make amends for that fateful day 33 years 54 days & 7 hours ago. I've contributed to the DNC-fervorishly denounced right wing activity-said yes to drugs-advocated for air traffic controllers-even helped a blind black woman on welfare cross a busy street. Now, in hopes of starting the new year with a clean slate and having bared my soul to do so, I feel as though I've committed the unpardonable sin.

Oh Lordah! Thou forgivest mine inequities I beseech you! Please don't turn me into salt or kill the firstborn of thousands of innocent families as you've done before. Please don't use your servants to beat me down with the jawbone of an ass. (eight years of Bush was enough) Spare me oh Lord. And I promise to do what I've been doing to make amends.


nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails, I can't say for certainty, but I think the following includes those who voted for Reagan.

Revelations 21:8 -- "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

roger — December 29, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Monty Python - Village Idiots

roger — December 29, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think it's been long enough and you've suffered more than enough to be absolved of your "sin".

Now go to the corner and say seven "hail Kennedys" and that will be that.

Hawkman — December 29, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I've been absolved by hawkman!?

Thank you hawkman!

A much better antidote than what roger offered. Whew..that was close.

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Chargers in a miracle win make the playoffs!

Pretty dead on the C face book side. When an article about O'BummerCare doesn't get hits, somethings off. I think Greg Jayne has found his niche. Stay away from politics (can't blame him) and write about flowers, nuns, good deeds and stuff. No news is good news.

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 9:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

///Midwest 'fireball' a mystery to astronomers and meterologists///

Dec 29th 2013 12:30PM'fireball'%20a%20mystery%20to%20astronomers%20and%20meterologists/20796949/

nailingit — December 29, 2013 at 10:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Coming back from the East today ahead of the predicted storm, watching the coverage of the newest terrorism attack in Russia.

Why in with world would anyone believe Putin can provide appropriate security for the Olympics? Why in the world was Russia chosen in the first place?

Godspeed, Erik Hidle and all the other souls heading to that region within the month.

manthou — December 30, 2013 at 4:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I don't think people want to pay money to continue their FB fights via The Columbian. A big source of entertainment is gone, alas. :)

For me, it is simply about supporting our local family-run newspaper, a dying breed across the US and paying for a service I use daily. I am a Crosscut member, as well, because that online source is among the best of journalism in our state. That does not leave a lot of cash left for other newspapers online, unfortunately, but local comes first.

manthou — December 30, 2013 at 4:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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