Open forum, July 1-7

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146 comments

Comments

Crosscut produced the most comprehensive reporting on Olympia during this budget struggle, IMHO.

I hope they step up and extend their coverage in SW Washington since The Oregonian is crapping out on us.

There has been a lot of congratulatory back-slaps being handed out on the demise of the CRC. Who can we truly thank or blame (depending on your stand on this issue)?

John Stang lays it all out well here:

[link text][1]

Of note is the following:

"Bipartisanship? This was a game of "chicken."

Spokane newspaper columnist Shawn Vestal recently wrote about the game of Olympia chicken "The problem with games of chicken is that the dumber driver wins. Whoever is most willing to crash the car wins. Whichever drunken teenager mistakes foolishness for principle carries the day. Who will win the game of chicken in Olympia? There’s not much question which side is more willing to crash the car."

Send Democrat Rodney Tom, who lives in the district populated by the likes of Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, a thank you card, CRC opponents. He's gonna be governor someday. :)

[1]: http://crosscut.com/2013/07/01/olympia-2013/115314/legislature-rodney-tom-inslee-chopp-analysis/

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: BTW, many folks surround the descriptor of Democrat with quotes when using it to describe Rodney Tom. :)

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A thought for the weak: **START WORKING OUT!!!**

kn_dalai — July 1, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai: LOL. I was just lecturing myself to do just that. Except, I am gonna wait until it cools off a bit. :)

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- Great article! It seems to really sum up what this whole fiasco (and so much more) was about. It doesn't look to improve anytime soon.

This community is a mind blower for sure. I'd like to say there are many well intentioned people who fought this and won.

But reality dictates, with few exceptions, a miserly bunch obstructing progress to save a buck, while the Ideologues in Olympia yank their strings.

We still have to deal with this Benton fiasco. He needs to be grilled as to Environmental Cut & Paste ALEC legislation, as he's the State Chairman of this corrupt entity.

I can see the Olympia puppeteers extolling Don's trustworthiness, while expecting their puppets to back him.

And back him they will.

On thoughts of moving to better digs. The next two elections will make up my mind with that.

This latest fad of conservatism is like a plague. The dying destructive gasps of a broken Party.

I'm getting too old to pick up the pieces.

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I was saying something similar to my husband this morning. As persons who started our public protesting in the late 60's, we are spent. Time to pass the torch on, pack up the fishing gear and good books and head to the cabin.

Yet.......mention Donnie Benton and it makes my blood boil. The fat lady has not sung for me on that one. Not so much for his politics (he lives in a free country), but that he is earning over 100 grand from Clark County in a job he is not qualified for and was gifted to him.

Will his politics with ALEC infect county government doing its "best practice, evidence-based" job on behalf of the public good in Environmental Services? A whole bunch of us are bird-dogging that with an affirmative expectation of YES.

While he is being heralded right now for his part in the CRC demise, it won't be long before he trips up again. And there are plenty of people waiting in the wings to record his fall. Fair weather fans have nothing on Clark County politics.

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Public records fight in Clackamas County: a commissioner refuses to hand over his private emails in a public disclosure request and gets the county to pay for his private attorney.

[link text][1]

Wouldn't it be great to see what some of our elected officials home-sent emails look like? Mielke resisted handing his over in the Kevin Gray personnel debacle.

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2013/06/clackamas_county_chairman_hire.html#incart_m-rpt-2

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


KN-

Went to the GYM this morning myself. It has been so hit and miss last 3 months. It's so easy to get out of shape ...What I hear from allott of people is I don't want to go to the gym or it's too expensive...We don't have to go to the gym, we have roads and sidewalks to walk and run on. We have schools with tracks. Just push yourself away from the feedbag and get out and do something.. How about mow your lawn, trim your hedges and bushes around your house... There is so much our area has to offer for low stress excercise...The old saying my mom told me was, take care of your body and it will take care of you..How True...

HC, why all the angst against these folks making a couple greenbacks...It wasn't like the job was handed to them like Mr. Benton... You have quite abit of rage going on, tell us more about it...There has to be something a bit deeper here.

I wonder if Madore's little witch hunter is going to be able to find any miss "appropriated money".. I'm sure she should at least findf they spent to much on thumb tacks or tape...

vanwadreamer — July 1, 2013 at 2:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 1, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

Interesting. Somehow, it seems the ones who preach transparency, are the least apt to show it.

Wasn't transparency a platform issue with Madore?

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder what next major issue Madore will have his followers preaching against.

-Marching against Gay Rights?

Probably not. They could only round up about 40 of them for the anti-CRC rally's. And given the average age to be about 90, they wouldn't last.

A sit in?

-Immigration?

It's too complex for most conservatives to understand. Although a conversation about conservative emigration would be welcomed on my end. adiós bastardos!

-Choice?

Could be. Conservatives are constantly rallying not to give women any. Easy to flow into.

-Contraception?

My guess is no on this one. Dip a toe in the Waters, and it signals whooping Cranes and Yellow-Tipped Van Gallders to aimlessly attack those they don't agree with. No one wants this, and makes this potential argument one sided. (although a cure for irregularity)

-Jobs?

LOLOLOLOL!

-Voting Rights?

Maybe. SCJ Uncle Thomas will speak at a Clarkistan fundraiser. If not, his wife would do it for the right $$$. And I'm sure she would be...not so hard on the eyes for our local Conservatives.

-The Environment?

:) The Don is already polluting our atmosphere.

By the Power of Deduction.....

Choice it is!

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Interesting. Somehow, it seems the ones who preach transparency, are the least apt to show it.

Wasn't transparency a platform issue with BHO???? Look where this has gotten us.. But he is who got elected by a vast, wide, huge, overwhelmingly, gigantic margin..Just sayin..:):)

vanwadreamer — July 1, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


//But he is who got elected by a vast, wide, huge, overwhelmingly, gigantic margin..Just sayin..:):)//

At least you've come to grips with it. :)

---

Sarah Palin-Libertarian's new Leader! Sarah Palin-Libertarian's new Leader!-Sarah Palin-Libertarian's new Leader! Sarah Palin-Libertarian's new Leader!!

Finally Libertarians have a new Ron Paul. Someone who not only espouses solid core Libertarian beliefs, but she's a Constitutional expert, a Fox News Analyst, Author, Governor, a Republican VP Nominee, Television Reality Star, a Mama Grizzly, Exceptional Profiteer, a master of articulation, thinking process in the upper 95% of Right Wing intellectuals, and perhaps most impressive of all...

She perfectly represents the Republican/Libertarian Party Platform. A back & forth party switch, (of course being dependent on funding & perks) to the Libertarian party, like RP used to do comes natural. Just like her tenure as Guv, adaptable. She truly poses a threat in 2016!

That good ol' folksy charm will getcha every time! Like Ricin!

///Sarah Palin floats third party if GOP 'abandons us'///

Former GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin floated the idea of creating a third party for conservatives if the mainstream Republican Party continues to "abandon" them.

Answering a question from Twitter on Fox News on whether she'd be open to creating a "Freedom Party" with conservative radio host Mark Levin, she suggested such an option was feasible.

Palin said that if the GOP "continues to back away from the planks in our platform, from the principles that built this party of Lincoln and Reagan," Republicans with a "libertarian streak" might look to form a third party.

"I think there will be a lot of us who start saying, 'GOP, if you abandon us, well, we have nowhere else to go except to become more independent and not enlisted in a one or the other of the private majority parties that rule in our nation,'" said the former Alaska governor.

"Remember, these are private parties, and no one forces us to be enlisted in either party," Palin said of the Democratic and Republican parties.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/308651-sarah-palin-floats-third-party-if-gop-abandons-us#ixzz2XprXKNos
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


NAIL'

Just pokin some fun your way... Can't have it Both ways or maybe you can.The GOP party isn't going anywhere, they'll prob win more seats at this mid term election too... GOP needs to get some new blood though....with some of that backbone....

vanwadreamer — July 1, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The GOP party isn't going anywhere,

vanwadreamer — July 1, 2013 at 4:14 p.m.

It's going to Hell in a hand basket.

You know, I've never understood what that meant. So I looked it up. Kinda interesting.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hell-in-a-handbasket.html

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Colorado has come up with their set of rules for legal marijuana. Without knowing more than what's in this one article, it seems like they're more interested in 1) keeping it out of the hands of kids (fat chance), and 2) controlling the amount out-of-staters can buy, presumably to keep them from making the state some sort of mecca (guess they don't need this for the tourism industry). They also allow personal growing of 6 plants.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/marijuana-legalization_n_3529986.html

Everything I read says our state is more concerned with trying to make money from legalization.

roger — July 1, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I doubt Sarah Palin knows much about what Libertarianism is, or intends to know. I'd say she's just riding the Ron Paul wave, and hoping to corral his supporters, the Tea Party types, and other "Republicans" who are probably getting the idea that the traditional GOP is not for them. Hence her Freedom Party.

But before we write her off as a complete idiot, Andrew Jackson did pretty much the same thing with his Democratic party and the populism they espoused. And while he had a lot of warts (trying to wipe out the Indians for starters), he also broke the elitist stranglehold on our federal gov't and started the march toward gov't representing the people. (He also reportedly through some hellish good parties at his White House.)

We are long overdue for a new party, and the demise of one or both of the current two.

roger — July 1, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Threw, not through. And I'm not using one of those "smart programs" to blame that on.

roger — July 1, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This could have been us.

A judge told Clackamas County that it HAS to honor its contract for light rail to Milwaukie, voters be damned:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/milwaukie/index.ssf/2013/07/clackamas_county_must_cooperat.html#incart_m-rpt-2

manthou — July 1, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I've been "directed" by a couple of people I served with to read a book by C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity. For me, the guy makes good arguments for believing in Christianity, but they're based on leaps of faith that can't be supported by anything I would call substantial. (He addresses this - by falling back on saying our imagination is representative of God's greater imagination.) I found this enactment of a discussion between him and J.R.R. Tolkien pretty entertaining - though I'm afraid I still see things with the skepticism Tolkien does. ("You absolutely astonish me.")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBT39...

roger — July 1, 2013 at 7:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Prediction - The current Clackamas County Board will start talking about putting up a voter initiative for withdrawal from TriMet.

Where that will go????

roger — July 1, 2013 at 7:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


[I doubt Sarah Palin knows much about what Libertarianism is, or intends to know. I'd say she's just riding the Ron Paul wave, and hoping to corral his supporters, the Tea Party types, and other "Republicans" who are probably getting the idea that the traditional GOP is not for them. Hence her Freedom Party.]

roger — July 1, 2013 at 6:48 p.m.

YOU THINK?

But before we write her off as a complete idiot, (way, way too late for that) Andrew Jackson did pretty much the same thing...

Sarah Palin... ... compared to Andrew Jackson... ... ... well I'll be... and they say five won't get you ten ... ...

As far as Jackson goes, he'd fit right in with Vantucky politics. Madore & Mielke must be big fans.

[During the campaign, Jackson had charged the Adams bureaucracy with fraud and with working against his election. As president, he initiated sweeping removals among highranking government officials–the Washington bureau chiefs, land and customs officers, and federal marshals and attorneys. Jackson claimed to be purging the corruption, laxity, and arrogance that came with long tenure, and restoring the opportunity for government service to the citizenry at large through "rotation in office." But haste and gullibility did much to confuse his purpose. Under the guise of reform, many offices were doled out as rewards for political services. Newspaper editors who had championed Jackson's cause, some of them very unsavory characters, came in for special favor. His most appalling appointee was an old army comrade and political sycophant named Samuel Swartwout. Against all advice, Jackson made him collector of the New York City customhouse, where the government collected nearly half its annual revenue. Swartwout absconded with more than $1 million–a staggering sum for that day–in 1838.]

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/andrewjackson/edu/domesticpolicy.html

Everything okay? Been hangin' with your bagger anti-CRC pro-'I want the world die with me' crowd a little much? Some of us are concerned. :)

No matter what they tell you, offer you, seduce you with, remember roger, you still have common sense if you choose to use it.

Resist the homemade cookies, the pot lucks, the pats on the back, and most of all...turn away from the iniquitous deeds of our local FleaBaggers!

nailingit — July 1, 2013 at 10:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


today's my birthday.

bought myself a present.

if i had a pic of it, i'd tell you to say hello to my new sig 1911 9mm nightmare.

i'm thinking of a laser trigger add-on for christmas.

DeeLittle — July 1, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now I'm thinking there ***should*** be some kind of testing to buy a gun.

hawkeye — July 2, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


OH! Happy birthday Dee. Good for you, another year.

hawkeye — July 2, 2013 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We are long overdue for a new party, and the demise of one or both of the current two.

roger — July 1, 2013 at 6:48 p.m

Not sure how you came up with that. The Republicans are the party that's fractured and splitting apart at the seams, much do to actions like Perry is taking in Texas.

I would like to see a multi party system of 4 or 5 to choose from. The Baggers are just amping this up.

You don't see Dems abusing our process like this. This is happening on one side of the aisle.

I know how many like to throw national politics in a melting pot and say they are all to blame.

///Texas Anti-Abortion Bill Fast-Tracked By GOP///

After Texas Republican lawmakers ran out of time last week and failed to pass their anti-abortion bill in the first special session of the legislature, they're taking no chances the second time around.

Within an hour of convening a 30-day special legislative session on Monday, called by Gov. Rick Perry (R) last week, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst (R) suspended the Texas Senate rule that requires two-thirds of senators to approve a bill before it can be considered in a floor vote. The suspension makes it easier for Republicans to avoid a potential filibuster and quickly bring the abortion bill to a vote.

The GOP-controlled House State Affairs Committee scheduled a hearing on the abortion bill for Tuesday afternoon and announced that testimony would end at midnight, no matter how many people sign up to testify. The bill, which would dramatically cut access to abortion in the state, must be heard in the House before moving to the Senate.

---

Dewhurst warned anyone who causes a disruption in the gallery while lawmakers consider the abortion bill would be removed and may face 48 hours in prison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/texas-anti-abortion-bill-gop_n_3530561.html

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Some Summer Reading

-Collision 2012-

Coming from one of the most respected reporters in politics, Balz's account is perhaps the most highly anticipated of the 2012 campaign retrospective genre. His book on 2008 -- "The Battle for America: The Story of an Extraordinary Election" -– didn't get the accolades (or HBO movie) that "Game Change" did. But campaign veterans regarded it as the definitive take on that race. (Romney also reportedly sat down for an interview with "Game Change" authors Mark Halperin and John Heilemann for their 2012 sequel, "Double Down: Game Change 2012.")

Balz's look into last year's Republican primary is both substantive in its analysis of conservative politics and entertaining with its richly reported anecdotes.

Romney's campaign team, Balz writes, held "Kill Newt" meetings after former House Speaker Newt Gingrich vaulted to a victory in the South Carolina primary. During those meetings, they plotted what Communications Director Gail Gitcho described as "an entirely negative earned media campaign against Newt."

During the vice presidential selection process, Romney assured Ohio Sen. Rob Portman that his son's homosexuality would not be an issue in the selection process. He also asked New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie if he would resign as governor if chosen as the running mate because Securities and Exchange Commission rules prohibited employees at big banks and financial institutions from making donations to candidates who also ran states where the banks did bond business.

The Republican National Convention, Balz reports, was chaotic. Christie threatened to drop an F-bomb during his primetime speech if organizers cut down his introduction video by three minutes (they were nervous about getting everything done by 11 p.m.). Organizers relented. Meanwhile, Clint Eastwood's primetime address to an empty chair caught Romney's team completely off guard -- which one Romney adviser confirmed to The Huffington Post.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/dan-balz-book-mitt-romney_n_3530737.html

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Well, I figured I'd get you spun up a bit.

As I noted, Andy had his warts. But Andy also made the gov't accessible to the common folk; something the Virginia landed gentry and the Northeast businessmen who had been sharing the gov't didn't. I'd say that it's because of Andy that the vote of a semi-literate buffoon counts exactly the same as that of a person who understands what they're voting for and why. So, if you'd like, feel free to say this is the same exact thing Sara represents - I won't argue with that one bit.

Both of our current parties belong to Corporate America. The Repubs and the Dems represent different social factions, and keep us focused on those differences as much as possible so we don't get too far into things like controlling lobbyists and campaign finance reform - cutting off that cash flow into the pockets of our elected officials.

I'd definitely like to see several parties to choose from. Compromise and working together is usually critical to the majority party's ability to rule in those governments.

roger — July 2, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"I'd say that it's because of Andy that the vote of a semi-literate buffoon counts exactly the same as that of a person who understands what they're voting for and why. So, if you'd like, feel free to say this is the same exact thing Sara represents - I won't argue with that one bit."

roger — July 2, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

In the spirit of not arguing...

I'd say that it's because of Sarah Palin that the vote of a semi-literate buffoon counts exactly the same as that of a person who understands what they're voting for and why.

Man that felt good!

And to think, Silly Sarah was votes away from sitting in the White House. Republicans sure can pick em'. I think much of the evangelical base would glom on to Sarah for another run.

After all, denounce abortion, taxes, and promise to send all the Mexicans home in body bags and you're number one with today's GOP. The individual doesn't matter so much any more, especially true with the Right. Look at Dubya.

A party encompassing Libertarians-Evangelicals-Establishment Republicans-Tea Party-Beck/Jones Conspiracists-Confederates-Mormons-Girl Scouts-Ancient Old White Men insisting on governing women's health care, is domed to fail---combine this with hate speech against the fastest growing demographic in America, as well as shutting out policy that the majority of Americans want (e.g. fair pay, gun background checks, environmental protections, financial regulations, etc. etc. etc.) and you have a present day Republican Party that may not win the Presidency again, ever, unless it cheats or changes.

That brings us full circle to "the vote of a semi-literate buffoon counts exactly the same as that of a person who understands what they're voting for and why." The same can be said of the elected in the worst rated Congress in U.S. history. Look at Right Wing hicks in the House like Louis Gohmert.

The Republican Party has entered it's final stages of dissolution. The Palins, the Becks, the Jones, the Pauls, the Hannity's..have dumbed down the party to the point there is no majority. No reasonable consensus. America is veering left while the GOP is entering Russian waters.

Just a bunch of semi-literate buffoons looking for something to hate. A direct reflection of the people they represent. Thank God most of them live on the other side of the Country. We've got more than enough here.

Spunnin' it man. Spunnin' it on home;;;;;;;;;;;;

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, Nails, I'm thinking most of America hates the idea of Right or Left - or government in general. They're trying to steer down the center line on the road of life, and would rather not hear from people with opinions on how things ought to be. (Unless it affects them, that is.)

Take It Easy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKpay8...

roger — July 2, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — July 2, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.

I don't think so roger. Most folks are bright enough to wrap their collective heads around issues. I know it's a feel good thing to espouse no labels, but the facts are we are a two party system. And one party is completely out of control. It will show at the ballot boxes as it did in 2012.

As far as folks claiming to be .. independent .. many times it's just low involvement/mentality/lack of interest/etc. Most are IINO'S. Both culturally and fiscally.

"and would rather not hear from people with opinions on how things ought to be. (Unless it affects them, that is.)"

Yep. That's the selfish mentality of our generation we need to break through. I mean, how many folks our age are affected by voting rights, abortion, equal pay etc.

To relegate one's self as disengaged unless it affect one personally, is much the reason many in our age group are locked into box like thinking, and much the reason for gridlock.

I suppose most didn't want the CRC because of tolls and taxes. I believe you've stated as such.

Maybe it's time we started to be concerned about America's future a bit, whether it affects us personally or not. Vancouver's future for that matter. (does anyone care?) Seeing how our generation's policies have put so much burden on this generation, I think it's the least we can do is to be engaged on matters that don't affect us directly.

But maybe that's what separates staunch conservatives from liberal progressives.

Not only a vision for our future, but caring about it as well.

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And as I (and others) have stated repeatedly, the vision the CRC was selling didn't make sense. The CRC was about protecting the interests of the Old Order - Those invested in the survival of the old downtown area. Putting ourselves into acquiring massive debt with little benefit would have been foolish.

You want light rail? No problem - keep it off the city streets and run it along our freeways. Send it to places like Van Mall, or even better build a large enough garage and station around the Home Depot/Padden Parkway exit off I205. Make it useful to working commuters - not the people who want to take a leisurely ride to enjoy the cultural diversity of the downtown Portland area.

The old downtown cannot survive without a massive investment from the entire County. That's the reason for the land grab annexations of the '90s and early 2000s. With the possible exception of Esther Short Park, the efforts to pick up that area to date have failed to keep pace with the growth in the east, in Battle Ground, and further up the I5 to Ridgefield.

The plan for the future needs to make sense. The current one doesn't.

roger — July 2, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And speaking of making sense (or not) the Affordable Health Care Plan implementation appears to have taken another step backwards today, with Pres Obama announcing the employer mandate will be set back to 2015. The reason given is that small businesses claim the need for more time to understand reporting requirements and to assess whether to continue offering health insurance and what levels of coverage. Forbes suggest the White House agreed to this because the requirement for us to have insurance remains 2014, and this will result in more people opting for the subsidized exchanges. (Forbes thinks this is good - they don't believe businesses should be mandated to pay for an individual's responsibility.)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/02/white-house-to-delay-obamacares-employer-mandate-until-2015-far-reaching-implications-for-the-private-health-insurance-market/

I'm thinking there will be a large refusal to comply with the law. There has been no effort to contain rates, and they're skying. And after scanning the attached chart, the gambling person who makes too much to gain a subsidy will be way ahead of the game if they elect to pay the annual penalty instead, for the three years listed. The IRS will have a hard time keeping up with these penalties - The system could easily collapse over that time.

http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/301310/Health-Insurance-Tax-Subsidy-Charts

They should have gone with universal coverage for all.

roger — July 2, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know those YouTube Hitler parodies? Well, Lew's got one on his blog about the CRC that I guess he did himself. Excellent. Check it out.

kn_dalai — July 2, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Priceless.

From today's Columbian editorial:
"There has been a decided lack of vision and a clear lack of leadership in connection to the CRC, and that, perhaps, is what ultimately led to its demise."

Tim's response:
"What I am having a hard time with is this opinion by the Columbian.You state in the opinion that there has been a clear lack of vision and lack of leadership.Why has it taken the Columbian this long to realize it.You have been content to sit back all these years and promote this project, when you knew it was faulty.Now all of a sudden you say to all of us that it was bad.Something is just wrong with this."

roger — July 2, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Senate tacks sweeping abortion legislation onto Sharia law bill///

RALEIGH, N.C. — Senators tacked a suite of new restrictions and regulations pertaining to abortion clinics onto a bill dealing with the application of foreign laws in North Carolina family courts Tuesday. 

The measure was unveiled unexpectedly during an unusual late-day committee meeting Tuesday. It combines several bills in different stages of the legislative process into one omnibus measure. 

http://www.wral.com/senate-tacks-sweeping-abortion-legislation-onto-sharia-law-bill/12621503/

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Marco Rubio To Introduce Abortion Bill In Senate: Report///

"Forty years ago, the Supreme Court affirmed a woman's constitutional right to privacy, including the right to choose," the administration said in a statement. "This bill is a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade and shows contempt for women's health and rights, the role doctors play in their patients' health care decisions, and the Constitution."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/marco-rubio-abortion_n_3537494.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/rubio-introduce-senate-bill-ban-abortions-after-20-weeks_738579.html

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And now, the rest of the story.

///Obamacare Employer Mandate Delayed For One Year///

The change does not affect people who will buy health insurance on their own or small businesses that will buy coverage through the law's health insurance exchanges.

More than half of Americans, 170 million people, are covered by employer-sponsored health insurance, according the census data. Of companies with at least 50 workers, 94 percent already offer health benefits, a survey by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation shows. The one-year delay of the penalties won't have a meaningful effect on jobs being the leading source of health care coverage, said Paul Fronstin, a senior research associate with the Employee Benefit Research Institute.

"The fact is, employers have been offering coverage voluntarily for how many years now. They didn't drop it before the law was passed. They offered it for business reasons," Fronstin said. "I don't think you'll see a mass exodus because of this."

Postponing enforcement of the "employer responsibility" mandate also isn't likely to result in significantly fewer people gaining health coverage because of Obamacare next year, said Larry Levitt, senior vice president for special initiatives at the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation.

"The practical effect on how people will get covered is really small," Levitt said. "It might mean ever-so-slightly fewer people gaining insurance, but it'll be a very small number because the vast majority of larger employers already offer coverage." The Congressional Budget Office projected only a modest increase in job-based health benefits because of the law, he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/obamacare-employer-mandate_n_3536695.html

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///How epic GOP bumbling could inadvertently save food stamps///

GOP felt $20 billion in cuts to the poor weren’t enough, so it killed the bill. The likely result? Fewer cuts. Oops

The Democratic-controlled Senate passed its own Farm Bill that would cut SNAP by some $4 billion, an amount already troubling to people concerned about hunger in America. The House then took that $4 billion cut and multiplied it by five, calling for a $20.5 billion reduction.

“That’s equivalent to getting rid of all food charity in the country for two and a half years,” Rev. David Beckmann of the Christian hunger advocacy group, Bread for the World, tells Salon. “Food bankers are saying it’s equivalent to eight billion meals for needy people.” Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) estimated it would cause “2 million people to lose their benefits, [and] throw 210,000 kids off of the free school breakfast and lunch program.”

While that’s enough to surely kill some hungry Americans, it was not enough to satisfy many House Republicans. Not only did some vote against the bill because it wasn’t draconian enough, but House leaders actually had enough support from Democrats to push through the $20.5 billion cut – until they asked for even more. Despite Nancy Pelosi’s warning that adding amendments that would further limit poor people’s access to food might cost the bill Democratic votes, Republicans went ahead and did it anyway.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/02/how_epic_gop_bumbling_could_inadvertently_save_food_stamps/

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 9:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I think Roger that the Columbian is so invested in the resurrection of downtown that they just ignored the faults.They along with some others wanted downtown to be like the Pearl.For some reason they believe east county is not there.Look at the coverage that all other areas don't get.East county is completely different than old town.I think they did this because of access to the water front.Can you imagine what they could do with Columbia Industrial Park.Picture boat ramps,sandy beaches,restaurants,trendy shops.A Pearl on the water.They might be right.But they wanted the tax payers to pay for it.Than they and a few of the other big money people would step in and invest.I might be wrong,but I don't think so.

timerick — July 2, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — July 2, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.

roger- Didn't you mention you subscribed to the Washington Post a couple of weeks ago?

///The cost curve is bending. Does Obamacare deserve the credit?///

There was a time when all anyone in Washington wanted to talk about was “bending the health-care cost curve.” Forget covering the uninsured — the ultimate test of the Affordable Care Act would be the trajectory of health-care costs.

But Washington has a short memory. That whole “curve” thing was years ago. Meanwhile, we’ve turned our attention to other things, like “Fast & Furious 6.”

Yet, quietly, the cost curve has begun to bend.

“National health spending grew by 3.9 percent each year from 2009 to 2011, the lowest rate of growth since the federal government began keeping such statistics in 1960,” reports the Kaiser Family Foundation. Early data suggest that the numbers held into 2012. So the curve hasn’t just bent; it has bent more than ever.

In a new paper, Harvard University scholars David Cutler and Nikhil Sahni calculate that if those numbers hold over the next decade, the government will save up to $770 billion, employers will save up to $430 annually on each covered worker and households will spend up to $290 less on annual health costs. “Slow health care spending growth might thus bring much-needed relief throughout the economy,” they write.

Read more @ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/31/the-cost-curve-is-bending-does-obamacare-deserve-the-credit/

nailingit — July 2, 2013 at 9:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — July 2, 2013 at 8:01 p.m.

Where can Leavitt's response to the Columbian's editorial be found? I didn't see it on the FB comments.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Is this where the huckster's start ratting on the other huckster's to save there own huckster hide?

I'm also wondering if the riverfront project is going ahead. Or is everything different now with the CRC finished. After all, if the idea was to bring in the Portland yuppie types and shuttle them to their downtown Portland jobs via made-to-order lite rail, then this might be a game changer.

kn_dalai — July 2, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai:I do believe that some of the water front has to start in order for them to receive the tax breaks.The city has already started some of the work on the access roads to the property.Also BN has done some of the railroad track work.I guess we will all see what happens now.Gramer Development is I believe the developer on the property.Take a look at who they are.Very big and very old money in Vancouver.This whole thing has been corrupt as far as I am concerned.

timerick — July 2, 2013 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: I happen to personally know, for over 20 years. one of the major developers of the waterfront project, so would love to understand where you think the corruption comes from. I am not trying to embarrass or challenge for a fight, just want to know specifics. Do you think the city gave too many favors?

About the development of downtown vs the Eastside: I may be wrong, but I do believe that the concept of "environmental justice" has something to do with what is perceived as favoritism to downtown development. Again, I believe that Rosemere Neighborhood, the non-profit, not to be confused with Rose Village, had a court challenge on this. The idea is similar to equal opportunity programs: poorer neighborhoods get the short end of the shaft when it comes to development funds and opportunities. Rosemere initiated a court challenge that prevailed, basically asserting that Vancouver's downtown neighborhoods need some mitigation TLC. I will look it up for reference, as my memory of it is foggy.

There is a flurry of new downtown development happening: Elie Kassab's Prestige Plaza (apts and retail) on 13th and C Streets and Killian Pacific will be completing the development of the library project with parking garage, retail and residential. The city wants to develop the Ft. Vancouver barracks into studio and one-bedroom apartments, too. The Furstenbergs are remodeling the old city hall and leasing office space.

The Gramor folks, while they would have welcomed a new bridge and LR, assert that the success of their waterfront project does not rely on the CRC's success or failure.

I welcome private development and love the new murals, businesses and apartments cropping up near my home. There is development on the East side, but it is car-dependent for access. and has a different flavor to it. Vancouver is hardly hard-core urban living, but some people prefer it over having to use their cars all the time for access to entertainment, shopping, doctors, etc.

There is this disdain I see for people who have money, even if they re-invest it in their community, as if they are all crooks. I blame the media for a lot of it.

I know you, like me, live in one of the five downtown neighborhoods. There are pros and cons to it, for sure. For me, after having raised our children in a sanitized suburb in Clackamas County, I prefer the diversity and imperfection and high walking score I get here. I am healthier, know my business neighbors and support them, and am much more active in my local government than I ever was in my life.

Historic neighborhoods have access to special development programs and grants, as well as property tax abatement that newer areas do not. You can hardly blame private developers for taking advantage of these programs. If they won't some other smart developer, someone out of town, will.

Forgive me, Tim, if I sound like a lecturer. There is always so much more to these issues than meets the eye. :)

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///Committee Approves New Restrictions After Limiting Testimony At Hearing (VIDEO)///

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas Republicans voted early Wednesday to move forward with new abortion restrictions, after limiting testimony at a public hearing, refusing to consider Democratic amendments and imposing strict security precautions to prevent disruptions from protesting abortion-rights supporters.
On a party-line vote, the Republican majority sent the bill to the full Texas House for a vote next week. Gov. Rick Perry is pushing his allies in the Legislature to move quickly after he called lawmakers back for a second special session to pass the bill, which would limit when, where and how women may obtain an abortion in the state.
More than 3,500 people came to the Capitol and registered a position on the bill, and more than 1,100 signed up to testify. But fewer than 100 people had a chance to express their views because the top Republican on the committee limited testimony to eight hours and refused entreaties to extend it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/texas-abortion-law_n_3538347.html

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here is the information on the Rosemere environmental justice challenge:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.rosemerena.org/home/2010/03/23/rosemere-settles-landmark-environmental-justice-case-against-epa/

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The New York Times actually covered this local issue here:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/09/18/18greenwire-appeals-court-finds-widespread-failure-by-epa-78403.html

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Washington state will be a beneficiary of the brain drain that will leave Texas for states on the East and West coasts due to this draconian action. Who will put up with this?

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good morning manthou. I've wondered what makes the influx of money downtown "corrupt" myself. It has to come from somewhere. Without leaders who possess both vision and money, most communities would be up the proverbial creek.

At least our beloved CC Commissioners are creating a great atmosphere for job creation and patronage! :))

///Clark County to revisit rules on events, food at wineries///

Clark County commissioners are heading back to the drawing board on rules for events and food service at wineries.

Last week, they unanimously approved regulations on noise at winery events, halting amplified music at 7 p.m. Also approved was language limiting what food service was allowed at events and tasting rooms.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ju...

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Recently I said that the funding issue was far from over. The sneaky little ..... are at it again. The AG issued an opinion that Mr. Moeller was head over heels in love with. You could practically see his salivating and wringing his hands in glee and anticipation over how he could get into our wallets again.

I said, back when the voters OK'd a .01% sales tax increase for C-Tran, that it was going to be gentleman's agreement to be used for M&O.; I said then that it would change as soon as it was apparent that there wouldn't be another .01% tax for O&M; for LOO-RAIL. Now the state and federal fund are not available they are getting desperate to fund something. My guess is they will raise any monies from the masses no-matter what the cost is to us.

They have proven that they just don't give a damn. There are a lot of 'ifs' and the bottom line is this. Most people saw the common sense needed at the CRC planning. They thought they knew better. They were in an all fired hurry to jump in bed with Tri-Met and get LOO-RAIL over here. They thought that by adding parking structures would make people drive their cars downtown and get on the train. Talk about poor planning. What happens at five o'clock around the freeways here?

We all know that there are plenty of examples of the crap that they wanted. But the crowning glory was to make it end at Clark College.

Now the AG has given them a ray of hope for future funding of this train to nowhere. Once again my ass (wallet) is beginning to hurt. I agree Roger, that it needs to be routed in such a fashion that it will serve the most people. See that would be the common sense approach. But seeing as how these idiots don't operate with that tool we are SOL. At the same time if it does happen then the financing should be separate from Tri-Met and the state of Oregon. They have already proven that they can't get a handle on their financial troubles.

JohnCasey — July 3, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A new FB commenter named John Veneruso contributed a fascinating alternative solution to the CRC in response to the C's July 2 editorial.

Fascinating to me, he received NO replies to this smart analysis.

Check it out. From my perspective, it is one of the most intelligent solutions I have ever heard.

Who is this guy? Sign him up.

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Corrupt was probably the wrong word to use.I would most likely do the same thing as these developers,and take advantage of any tax breaks that were offered to me also.It just seems to me that a lot of this is being done on the backs of tax payers.It causes shortages to services such as fire,police and many others.As far as the CRC is concerened,this whole group pushed for it.And it looks to me like the Columbian tried to hide a lot of the problems with the CRC.I guess that has been my point all along.They all seem to be tied together.I might be wrong as I have been before.

timerick — July 3, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: I was cheering the pull-back on the winery regulations. I thought the 7 pm limit was just too severe.

We need to find a way to support these small businesses and keep neighbors happy.

Glad to see so many new faces testifying before the BOCC and glad to see Madore can change his mind.

A musician friend received a nice reply from Madore when she wrote him about the burden too strict regulations will have on her ability to perform there, as well as the businesses themselves.

He, however, ignored my email. I am on his SOB list. :)

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


John Veneruso is only repeating what most of us have been saying for the past 8-10 years. Because he's a new FB commenter, that makes all the difference now, doesn't it.

It's bright without them blinders now, eh!

goldenoldie — July 3, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai,

Leavitt is just one of many who's been quite silent on The Columbian the past few days. I know Leavitt has his own web page; maybe he's talking on that. Usually with Vancouver City Council we hear from Burkman; I think he's their real transportation expert. As others have noted - This project may not be as dead as we think it is.

Or they may have moved their focus to the C-Tran BRT project, and are working on how to build a plan for it that doesn't require input from us. See today's Columbian article on the State AG's ruling on "the real meaning" of the state law and high capacity transportation projects.

RE: the Waterfront Development project - I don't know if this is a game changer. Manthou's sources say No. The success of the project has got to be contingent on public transportation; the addition of parking garages to support resident needs will kill the walkability planning. But my focus has always been different - I'd rather see that whole area turned over to the Port. I can see it now if they go ahead with the Waterfront project - constant complaining about noise, noxious odors, dirt, etc etc emanating from the Port.

roger — July 3, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It seems that the gov of Oregon will sign a bill authorizing an audit of Tri-Met. Most of the investigations that were done found they lied to their own employees (a cause for firing as far as I'm concerned), and were operating behind closed doors when they issued those raises to higher ups. Raiding your own rainy day funds to give raises is just plain irresponsible. Also they tried to hide from us the use of some of those funds they would have received for their own use. I think this will just be the tip of the iceberg.

And to think we almost got into bed with THOSE idiots.

JohnCasey — July 3, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sunday Streets Alive coming to Vancouver Aug 18, 2013:

Volunteer and join in the fun:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://sundaystreetsalive.org

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Barry Cain was quoted in this Oregonlive article recently that the waterfront development is going forward irregardless of what happened to the CRC:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/index.ssf/2013/04/vancouver_waterfront_developme.html

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Congress renewing the Voting Rights Act time after time with over 90% majority, one of the few things that were left the elected agreed on.

The American people as a whole rejecting this terrible Party line Court decision...

This is perhaps the most blatant example, this unquestionably extreme Right Wing Activist court has provided to highlight their Conservative bias.

Regardless of the elected we put into office to represent us, regardless of the overwhelming beliefs of the people the court supposedly represents, they pursued and destroyed what so many fought for not so long ago. For shame. No bigger sellout personified than the classless Clarence thomas.

///Many Criticize Voting Rights Ruling; Partisan Splits on Gay Marriage Continue///

Americans across racial groups are critical of the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Voting Rights Act, with disapproval of the decision exceeding approval by 15 percentage points among whites as well as by a vast 45-point margin among African-Americans.

Overall, just 33 percent of Americans approve of the ruling dismantling a key element of the voting law, while 51 percent disapprove (leaving 15 percent unsure). Among blacks, disapproval of the ruling soars to 71 percent in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/07/many-criticize-voting-rights-ruling-partisan-splits-on-gay-marriage-continue/

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A new FB commenter named John Veneruso contributed a fascinating alternative solution to the CRC in response to the C's July 2 editorial.

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.

manthou- I agree. A smart perspective and someone the community would benefit from listening to. He plays civil engineer a bit much, but seems to lend a reasonable analysis.

"Fascinating to me, he received NO replies to this smart analysis."

Maybe his perspective is too smart. Someone needs to take charge over there! :)

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: There is a lot of jealousy among the FB attention-seekers. Just like a schoolyard playground: the pecking order is obvious. Newbies are not embraced. :)

Speaking of CRC, looks like Tim Eyman does not believe it is dead. All Politics is Local published an interesting Eyman email today:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://blogs.columbian.com/all-politics-is-local/news/eyman-the-crc-isnt-dead/http://

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*I don't think so roger. Most folks are bright enough to wrap their collective heads around issues. I know it's a feel good thing to espouse no labels, but the facts are we are a two party system. And one party is completely out of control. It will show at the ballot boxes as it did in 2012.*

So let’s just list them..BTW Most folks are not bright enough to wrap their collective heads around major issues.( just look at the last two presidential elections" this guy is so not qualified to be the president and he has proven that to be so true... They lack the foresight/intelligence to actually look things objectively and without personal bias...

Benghazi
IRS
Obamas Green Energy Donors
Obama orders hacking of certain Journalists computers and cell phones. Calls it national security..
Several Holder Scandals
Hillary lies to members of congress
Hillaries bunch spending $$on Belgium Prostitutes

Obama lecturing Africa about corruption. When his administration puts its policy at the service of billionaire backers like Warren Buffett and George Soros, when it just nominated Penny Pritzker for Commerce Secretary while filling his cabinet with tax cheats.

Snowden exposing the Chicago style political chicanery of what the Obama Administration is capable of doing to our nation and our Allies...

These are just a few.. OH and we have Obamacare starting to Unravel but were already paying for some of the consequences now.. Out of our pockets$$$..

vanwadreamer — July 3, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BREAKING NEWS!!! Officially a Coup is underway in Egypt! BREAKING NEWS!!!

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

From your entry:

"Earlier, Larry Patella sent out his own plea for money, one of many many many many many pleas he has put out for donations to pay Pidgeon. “Please make your most generous Tax Deductible Donations that will help us pay for our Attorney’s (Mr. Stephen Pidgeon’s) services,” Patella wrote. “

This sounds like a win win.

Local Conservatives win by donating (anonymously if desired of course/David?) to further their ideology of demonizing taxes, progress, and 'Big Government'. (Did Orly Taitz ever pay her bill?)

The Birther Lawyer wins for the obvious $$$ $$$ $$$ and continuing.

Understanding there are well intentioned people who oppose this project, (of which the basement is blessed with) but I also understand some of the far out vitriolic off subject Face Book comments that have been made in the past with regards to this project from right wing...enthusiasts.

Stats concerning this whole process I would like to see come out are...

How many CRC opponents subscribe to the National Enquirer.

Or Glenn Beck.

After all, this project is a part of a much larger worldwide conspiracy to agendize the American people into slavery! :)

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — July 3, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.

Thank you. For at last, finally, spelling Benghazi correctly. It tells me you ordered Hannity Show subtitles for the hearing impaired. :)

Make sure your smoke detectors are functioning!

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Man Crashes Car Into 2 Cows Humping In Road (VIDEO)///

MOOOOoooove???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/man-crashes-cows-humping-road-video_n_3535555.html

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou August looks to be fun for Vancouver.On the 17 of Aug.from 10 to 3 the Slo Poks car club is having a show and shine in uptown village.The Slo Poks are I believe the oldest car club in town.If you like old cars and hot rods you should all try to be there.This is to benefit the Hough Foundation.

timerick — July 3, 2013 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — July 3, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.

I was trying to understand your charity. Sounds cool..is it kinda like The Little Lebowski Urban Achievers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmA-WS...

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: I do enjoy those classic cruises Vancouver hosts from time to time. I was there for the inaugural Cruise the Gut. I bagged a seat for a dinner on the porch of Mint Tea and watched the rods roll by. I did not know about the Aug 17th date and will be there. Thanks for the tip. :)

nailingit: Attorneys are expensive and I think this "CRC is not dead" plea from Tim Eyman may be fear-mongering to squeeze a few more dollars out of supporters to pay Mr. Pidgeon's bill. Larry and pals were stuck with a $40,000 attorney bill for their failed effort to stop the downtown Hilton. I feel for them, as you need legal representation and no one really wants to help pay for it, unless their own butt is in a sling.

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — July 3, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.

For the hey of it I searched your post and found the exact wording on fringe right wing web sites.

You should source others writes. I was hoping your were thinking for yourself.

It does explain 'your' proper spelling of Benghazi.

---

On another note, beautiful weather we're having. I've been fortunate in my life to have traveled a bit. I don't believe there's much nicer weather than we're having today, anywhere!

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi kids!

Long day, home from scrubbing the roof. What fun.

A thought occurred to me while I was looking at the beautiful river from my perch, high atop the building. It seems to me like DM is the Kanye West of Clark County. I don't know why, just does.

manthou, what article were you talking about where John Veneruso contributed? I'm really bad at finding needles in haystacks.

hawkeye — July 3, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Thanks for the post; I hadn't seen an update on that project in quite a while. They do sound optimistic, but is it perhaps due to at the time believing the CRC project would be completed as planned? They delayed the start of the project a while back; it was supposed to start late 2012 or early this year. As I recall (without verifying, mind you) this had something to do with the funding from the city.

What they're planning looks fantastic. But I'm still not connecting on how this will all fit in with a 24/7 operations Port to the west, the railroad berm with trains at all hours to the north, and planes from PDX flying overhead. (I used to also mention a large freeway to the east, with cars spewing fumes and all that good stuff, but that appears no longer, so....)

Also, a bell went off while reading on the roads being dug under the BMSF berm. RE: Grant Street - isn't this the road by The Columbian that's owned by the Campbell family? The one they were going to make a nice little sum of money selling it to the City for the project?

roger — July 3, 2013 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Yep. The Campbell's sold that to the city in 2010, I believe. I did a search on the Clark County Property Information site, and then was not able to bring up the details. Will try again later. There was some real estate and easement transactions between The Columbian Publishing Co and the City of Vancouver in 2006, as well.

hawkeye: Go to Opinion. Choose Editorials. Go to the July 2 editorial. John Veneruso left a very long comment that impressed me.

Here, I linked it for you:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ju...

manthou — July 3, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Happy early 4th! I plan on skipping any fireworks and just enjoy the day. Never believed one needs to blow up stinky Chinese stuff to honor the day.

Nails, can you explain to me how the Egypt crisis/coup/whatever is Obama's fault? Seems our friends on the right around the C and other places blame him. For the life of me, I can't figure that out.

luvithere — July 3, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 3, 2013 at 7:53 a.m., and Nails later on.

John Veneruso posted after the initial blast - most of the people who were there later on (when he said his piece) seem to have been engaged in their own discussions (disputes might be a better term - there's still a lot of hard feelings out there!!!). Actually, Goldie is correct in saying much of what he said has already been said before. And his voting on every piece of the project may be a bit too much - putting out a master plan of incremental build/pay off projects would be sufficient for most. Still - things aren't as bad as you two perceive facebook. He's got 3 thumbs up (not bad for a late post on a subject that's winding down), and I just posted a reply asking him a couple of questions. (I agree with what I took to be one of your points - It's good to encourage people who make positive comments.) He seems to be a pleasant enough guy - just the opposite of the other person who designs computer systems who posts frequently - Rory Bowman (the epitome of the supercilious "I'm smart and I know what's best for you" type).

roger — July 3, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere -

I took George's comment to mean the various people in our Pres's administration are calling each other trying to figure what the generals leading the coup stand for. I can't see that he meant anything derogatory by it - He's got a tendency of making short, cryptic comments.

The two guys Loren is engaged with are a couple of the bigger whack jobs out there. And though Penny makes sense a lot of times, she apparently hates all Muslims - real or imagined.

We supported the overthrow of Mubarak and his military dictatorship, due to their killing protestors and a few other things we consider unacceptable behavior. (I'm not sure all that many of the other Middle Eastern and North African governments agree with us on this, unless it's expedient to their own purposes).

Mohamed Morsi was elected President in a popular vote last year. He is a leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Pres Obama said we have to honor the will of the Egyptian people who pursued the democratic process we've been espousing for the Middle East, and need to learn to work with Morsi. This, needless to say, earned the outrage of the anti-Muslim/pro-Israeli crowd in our country. The two clowns Loren is engaged with are the type who will say that this position of Pres Obama's is just further proof he's a Muslim intent on destroying the USofA.

Several months ago Morsi granted himself unlimited powers to protect the nation (from what?) and to legislate without judicial oversight or review. This pissed a whole lot of Egyptians off - they thought they had gotten rid of a dictator, and their democratically elected leader decided he'd also rather be one. They've been having major protests ever since.

The Egyptian military leadership decided it was time for Morsi to go. What their motivation is remains to be seen.

More to follow, I'm sure.

roger — July 3, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Some 4th of July music.

Hendrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt3cYp...

Springsteen, and his classic anti-war song that the right wing war hawks adopted as their own (guess they never listened to the lyrics).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRxAs3...

Creedence Clearwater Revival. Guess you have to be small town blue collar from the Vietnam era to accept this as patriotic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plj82F...

roger — July 3, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


EGYPT

when morsi won, it was initially heralded as the country entering the 21st century.

then he was found out to be aligned with jihadists.

doesn't really matter. the REAL power rests with the military; has for generations, will stay that way.

while the uber-rich, insiders who ACTUALLY control egypt saw no problem with giving the people their preferred leader, they knew to keep a close eye on him due to his alliances.

morsi started making changes that were have upset the peace the country has lived in for so long.

so, bye bye morsi. of course it was the military, but what surprises me is that the people in the street turned on him so quckly.

DeeLittle — July 3, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — July 3, 2013 at 5:16 p.m

John has some good ideas. I don't think voting on every little thing is necessary though. I'd like to see 4 or 5 ideas and have a vote to see which ones should be pursued. I think that the bridge should be earthquake proofed (if you can even do that) and at the same time, create two more lanes in the middle between the bridges and made into thru lanes. They will have to move the control room but that should be easy. Then the right lane should be turned into a SR14 only exit lane.

hawkeye — July 3, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — July 3, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.

I haven't checked anything out on FB, but will later. I'm prioritizing it as something to do after eating some graham crackers spread thick with cream cheese frosting and topped with sliced fresh strawberries, watching the sun set, catching a movie, then watching some paint dry. :)

luvit-roger (thank you roger:) provided a pretty fair synopsis. (minus nuances and subtitles;)

I would add this has been a pressure cooker since the election. Many hard feelings and disputes about Election Fraud. What else is new in the Middle East. They are getting as bad as us!

I'm all for well placed foreign aid. But in this case there is zero justification. A couple Billion a year in cash, weapons, and God knows what else and for what...........

Israel needs to become independent and quit sucking the American Taxpayer teats. I think we give them something like 3-4 Billion a year, and for what? So NetenYahoo can try and sway American politics to the right during a Presidential election? By inaction, it appears he wasn't able to bully Obama into war with Iran..yet.

The less American involvement in the Middle East the better. Let the chips fall where they may, while lending well thought minimal financial support to our wealthy allies. Not just hush money to their crooked politicians.

We need some of these countries in our pocket, if not for anything else, to support our off site interrogation facilities. ;(

Besides, you know anything that goes wrong is Obama's fault! What else could we expect electing this Foreign born Black Muslim Communist Anti-Christ Gay man to lead this God fearing Christian Nation! Now he wants to take all of our guns and kill all our babies!!! We must repeal ObamaCare!!!

Sorry luv, I channeled FB comments for a sec. Now, off for a little bi-hourly mind meld of my own.

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just heard Richard Engel state Morrissey used religion to govern, then governed badly.

Pretty much sums up what's happening in Republican controlled states on our soil.

Middle East Politics...they're just like us!

nailingit — July 3, 2013 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Waterfront Project

I’m guessing that they have a bigger stake in the CRC lite rail than they’re letting on. It would have been imprudent on their own behalf, for Gramor Development et.al., to acknowledge their waterfront project as being significantly dependent on the CRC lite rail. It could easily have made them a target of the CRC opponents as an overly influencial party to the CRC lite rail outcome. Better to be low key. Here’s a Columbian story on the project from nearly three years ago. You might notice a couple or three prominent lite rail supporters of political standing in that photo.

[http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/se...][1]

The 3000 plus planned residential units in this project are very significant for this area. There is no way they could be filled in the forseeable future with locals, and that the development is very much dependent on an influx from the south side. That much I would think is obvious. Less obvious is to what degree the Portland yuppies will ride buses instead of lite rail. Probably too late to close down the waterfront project, but I’d think there will be some substantial revisions to come. Delays? Sure. And I’d think that C-tran may end up offering express service between the Vancouver waterfront and downtown Portland, at least.

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/se...

kn_dalai — July 4, 2013 at 12:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Roger, Nails, Dee. Went to the movies myself this fine evening. Watched a thrilling popcorn movie, White House Down. very entertaining.

I am aware of what's going on in Egypt, have been following it for the whole time. I just wanted to figure out how people can blame our prez for this. but Nails, you might have it right...they blame their own constipation on him also. Lol.

Roger, Loren goes around with the same dudes all the time, you are correct in your assessment of them. Not sure how she keeps that up week after week, but then, we tend to do same here.

luvithere — July 4, 2013 at 12:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, CCR is my fave band. "Fortunate son " was on target, wasn't it?

luvithere — July 4, 2013 at 12:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HEY EVERYBODY, Happy fourth of July!!!

I will be thinking of all who have gone before and those still yet to go. May you all be blessed. All of us should be grateful that we still have our freedoms after all this time. Most societies don't make it this far. We didn't get here by luck. We got here by sheer grit and determination and a belief that the system we have works.

Those who work to undermine our freedoms don't really understand that it isn't the words that are written. It's the meaning of them, the feeling you get. You know, the neck hair standing on end when you hear the National Anthem, hear the first words of the Constitution, or see those monuments to the brave.

Now I know it isn't perfect but whatcha gonna do? We do what is required and that is tweak it till we find the right way. Now we do have issues but we manage to keep it civil, for the most part, while we fix it. As our society changes over the years we have made changes that reflect those times.

We still have a long way to go and not everybody will be happy with some of the changes. That's why we have the system in place to change as we do. If we ever surrender that then we are done. But until that day arrives we have an obligation to keep it functioning for our future generations. Let's hope that day never comes.

Be safe out there today and watch out for the people who aren't paying attention. And the ones who are being just plain stupid and idiotic. Remember idiotic and patriotic are NOT synonymous.

JohnCasey — July 4, 2013 at 4:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///Just how low can the Republican party go?///

Never before in American history have we seen a political party so completely dominated and controlled by its extremist wing; and never before have we seen a political party that brings together the attributes of nihilism, heartlessness, radicalism and naked partisanship quite like the modern GOP. In a two-party system like America's, the result is unprecedented dysfunction.

Whether it was the promiscuous use of the filibuster and other blocking techniques in the Senate to stop President Obama's agenda; the manufactured fiscal crises highlighted by the disastrous debt limit showdown of 2011; or the unceasing efforts to undermine the economic recovery by blocking any and all measures to stimulate the economy, President Obama's first term was dominated by the Republican's unbridled obstructionism and disinterest in actually governing the country. That anything was accomplished is nothing short of a miracle.

But after the results of the 2012 election one might have expected the Republican fever to break and some level of sanity and good sense restored to the party of Lincoln.

Think again.

Read more @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/03/republican-party-demise-continues

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Over on FB on the immigration story, Robert; one of the better commenters, has an excellent post of a James Foxworthy quote about America and Liberalism.

BTW, on the substance scale, Loren is about half a notch above Yancey, at most. Usually just a bunch of @’s and :)’s, though the :)’s seem to have dissappeared in recent weeks. Hmmm.

kn_dalai — July 4, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 8:38 a.m

Great article, thanks.

hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Robert; one of the better commenters"

LOL!

"Usually just a bunch of @’s and :)’s, though the :)’s seem to have dissappeared in recent weeks. Hmmm."

Hmmm-Sounds like a new conspiracy is brewing! :):):)

Dial Rushbo up! Ya gotta love it.....

---

Looks like great weather again!

Happy 4th everyone. Will be glad when wannabe munitions nuts get it out of their systems.

We had one go off last nite that triggered a few car alarms!

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai

See, that's the thing about Robert Stevens. He doesn't check things out before he talks out of his butt.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/humor/idiots.asp

hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.

Seems to sum things up pretty well!

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


@@@@@Hawkeye, in that case Hawkeye, Robert has erred in attributing that quote to James Foxworthy, which should instead be attributed to anonymous or unknown source. However, the message is still the same. And spot on! :):):):):)

kn_dalai — July 4, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The latest Obama conspiracy!

///Obama’s war on July 4th: The perfect right-wing scandal///

An Independence Day-themed right-wing fever dream: The president wants to deprive our troops of fireworks

“Obama Spends $100M on African Trip But Cancels Marines’ July 4th Fireworks,” the headline on FoxNation read. “Shocking! While Obama Funds Syrian Rebels, Military Bases Must Cut Fireworks Celebrations,” another read. “Those funds would have covered every federal Fourth of July event nationwide with plenty left over for a president’s vacation [in Africa],” wrote Brent Bozell, whom allies call “a beloved and critically important player in American history.” Fox gave the controversy airtime twice this week, also contrasting it with the spending on the presidential trip to Africa.

The implication is clear: Obama doesn’t really love America, or else he wouldn’t be insulting our troops by depriving them of fireworks on the Fourth of July, of all days, and taking the money go to spend it in Africa or the Middle East. It hits all the right buttons for an Obamaphone-esque right-wing mini-scandal, and just in time for the holiday weekend.

What’s really going on here? Sequestration. Remember the package of budget cuts that the White House warned would lead to the sky falling while Republicans shrugged? The AP reports that because of cuts to the military’s budget in sequestration, a handful of military base commanders are deciding to forgo their annual Independence Day festivities, which can cost up to $100,000, in order to devote their diminished resources to other arguably more important things like keeping people employed. It’s unfortunate and unjust for American service members affected, but Brig. Gen. Thomas Gorry, the commander of the Marine’s Camp LeJune in North Carolina, told the AP that it was necessary to “ensure that we can mitigate the fiscal challenges we are currently facing.” And it was Obama who repeatedly pressed to undo the sequester.

And the notion that Obama, while on a trip to Africa, reached down into the budget of individual military bases to cut single line items is absurd. If he were to do that, you’d think he’d cut the fireworks budget across the board or in places controlled by his political enemies, not in his home state of Hawaii.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/04/obamas_war_on_july_4th_the_perfect_right_wing_scandal/

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 4, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

I guess it's all in how you look at things. In Robert's case (and some others) it doesn't matter who wrote it, if it meets his purpose, who cares. When I was on the other side, he would come after me like a pit bull with all kinds of misinformation. I finally had to tell him to leave me alone. Some people never get the hint or clue, as it were.

hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I found a pretty cool website if anyone is interested.

At CivilPolitics.org, our mission is to find and promote evidence-based methods for increasing political civility.

By civility we do NOT mean politeness, decorum, agreement, bipartisanship, or unity. We think disagreement and debate are good things. We think America is well served when political parties represent different viewpoints and then compete vigorously to recruit voters to their side. 

But we are disturbed by the increase in recent decades in demonization that characterizes American political debate, particularly among politicians and in the media. We are motivated by recent research in moral and political psychology showing what happens when disagreements activate the psychology of good-versus-evil. It becomes more difficult to reach agreements that meet each side's key interests; reasoning becomes far less responsive to facts; and combatants begin to believe that the ends justify the means. When that happens, partisans are more willing to break laws, play dirty tricks, lie, and ruin the personal lives of their opponents -- all in the service of what they think is a good cause. Good people are discouraged from entering politics. Good public servants are driven out of public service.
Civility as we pursue it is the ability to disagree with others while respecting their sincerity and decency. We believe this ability is best fostered by indirect methods (changing contexts, payoffs, and institutions), rather than by direct methods (such as pleading with people to be more civil, or asking people to sign civility pledges). 

Our approach is to draw on the best scientific research to understand how we got into this condition, and how we can make systemic legal and electoral changes that can get us out. 

http://www.civilpolitics.org/politicalscience

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Oregon Adopts Resolution Calling For Congressional Amendment To Overturn Citizens United///

Oregon joined 15 other states earlier this week in an official call for Congress to put forth a resolution overturning the Supreme Court's landmark 2010 Citizens United ruling, which opened the floodgates for vast sums of money to flow into elections.

With the state Senate's passage of House Joint Memorial 6, Oregon legislators pushed back against the Supreme Court's ruling that corporations, limited liability companies and partnerships, unions and other entities are granted the same free speech rights as individuals, which they are now allowed to express by funneling unlimited amounts of cash into super PACs.

According to the resolution, Congress must propose a constitutional amendment “clarifying the distinction between the rights of natural persons and the rights of corporations” and recognizing “that Congress and state legislatures may regulate all moneys raised and spent for political purposes.”

Oregon joins four other states – Delaware, Maine, West Virginia and Illinois – that have called for a constitutional amendment over just the past two months. All of the resolutions this year have passed with bipartisan support in at least one chamber. This is an issue that affects every American, regardless of political affiliation.
The other states that have called for an amendment to overturn Citizens United are California, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, Rhode Island, Vermont, Connecticut, Maryland, Colorado and Montana. The Washington, D.C., Council has called for an amendment as well.

The anti-Citizens United movement also has momentum at the federal level. Sens. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) and Tom Udall (D-N.M.) last month each proposed constitutional amendments aimed at reforming the campaign finance system with the expanded powers of Citizens United in mind. Earlier this year, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Rep. Ted Deutch (D-Fla.) introduced a constitutional amendment more directly aimed at overturning the court's ruling. Oregon Sens. Jeff Merkley (D) and Ron Wyden (D) have signed on as co-sponsors to similar efforts, along with a number of congressional Democrats from Oregon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/04/oregon-citizens-united_n_3546841.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's unfortunate "We The People" have to spend so much time, energy and treasure to fix what our beloved Conservative majored Supreme Court screws up.

nailingit — July 4, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like the Gov. is trying to do something right. Hope he does it.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ju...

hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anybody else feel like they are in Baghdad?

hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 4, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.

You know, the rockets I can live with. The ones that bother me most are the ones that sound like automatic rifle fire. Add in the mortars and it does seem like a whole lot of our neighbors are trying to recreate the TV news coverage of Iraq, Libya, Syria, ... (take your pick). But it wasn't as bad here in the Orchards area as in the past - My cats just curled up in the living room and mostly slept through it. And by 1 a.m. everyone was done. Not as much disposable income, I guess.

roger — July 5, 2013 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wonder how that went..my guess is it didn't matter. Some of these FB people have it in their minds they actually make a difference. Especially nuts like this.

///‘Freedom From Facebook’ Wants Conservatives to Boycott This July 4///

Does the social-networking site target conservatives’ posts and pages? That’s what a group of activists say, and they’re calling on users to join a boycott this Fourth of July. David Freedlander reports.

A group of conservative activists and bloggers is urging right-wingers to defriend Facebook this Independence Day.

The 24-hour “Freedom From Facebook” boycott is necessary, they say, because the social-media giant has been systemically targeting and discriminating against conservatives, blocking content, and “I personally have been thrown off Facebook six times,” says Diane Sori, a Florida woman who writes a blog called The Patriot Factor. “I am a conservative blogger now gaining national recognition. They didn’t like what I wrote, so they kicked me off.” Sori, who maintains a number of Facebook pages, including Patriots Against the Islamization of America, describes herself on her blog as “an American Patriot who refuses to let our beloved country be changed into something unrecognizable by a man who wants to radically alter and destroy our America and take away our children’s future.” Facebook kicked her off once, she says, because she wrote that Sharia was not compatible with American society. Another time, she was accused of pornography after posting a 1994 photograph of dead soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, Somalia, she says.

On The Patriot Factor, she writes that she was banned because she tells the truth about the “corrupt and traitorous Obama regime.” “I cannot sit idly by for 60 days and watch the lame stream media (who has been hijacked by this regime) feed everyone a bunch of lies and half truths as Facebook removes, blocks, bans, and banishes those of us trying to get the truth out,” she writes.

The social-media network’s supposed slights have been well documented in the conservative blogosphere. Joe Newby, an Idaho blogger and columnist for Examiner.com, has highlighted several instances of what he sees as overreach by the company. One Texas man found his account frozen after he wrote “Seizing the day with baby Obama” to a friend, and an anti-immigration group was unable to get the word out about an anti-Obama protest it was holding.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/03/freedom-from-facebook-wants-conservatives-to-boycott-this-july-4.html

nailingit — July 5, 2013 at 8:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 5, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.

Good stuff. The thing is, Facebook is a private company and they can ban whoever they want. If that happens to be someone who writes inflammatory crap, so be it. They have the right to refuse service to anyone as long as they don't discriminate and the last I heard, "conservative liars" are NOT a protected group.

BTW, why is it that all these whiny pinheads always use the phrase "lame stream media"? I guess that shows how creative they are.

hawkeye — July 5, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


See, this is the kind of crap I keep harping about - both misconstruction of the law (misfeasance) and bias.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jul/05/woodland-could-again-pass-on-collective-marijuana/#commentshttp://

"The issue — whether to allow medical marijuana card holders to grow pot in specially zoned areas, a practice allowed by state law — has created a schism between the council and city staff in recent weeks."

No, the state law *does not* reference zoned areas for collective gardens. The law speaks to a municipalities zoning dispensaries.

"At the heart of the matter, some council members say they are concerned that an ordinance would violate federal laws, which classify marijuana as an illicit drug. At the same time, they say, they don't want to run afoul of collective garden proponents, who have threatened other cities with lawsuits for enacting bans."

No and no. Allowing individuals to go about their private business, within the guidelines of state law, doesn't violate federal law. No, it doesn't. And the only city I'm aware of being sued is Kent. A suit was filed against Vancouver, but the plaintiff withdrew prior to a hearing.

"Legalized by the Legislature in 2011, the state's collective gardens law allows medical marijuana patients to grow a private stockpile of pot for personal consumption. As many as 10 patients can grow up to 45 plants."

"Stockpile?" You've gotta be kidding me. Under the law a single "patient" can have fifteen plants. So, ten with 45 is a stockpile? No.

"In a move that technically legalized collective gardens, Battle Ground let its moratorium to expire in July 2012. In a sign of what might be in Woodland's future, Battle Ground hasn't addressed how to zone for the gardens, and there are no plans to do that."

Darn it! Again! NO!

Battle Ground didn't legalize anything! They simply did what any municipality in this state should have done. And they are prudently not attempting to "zone" an activity that isn't a business. Duh.

It gets so darned frustating at times.

Drift — July 5, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift,

The Feds used the Interstate Commerce Clause to claim the ability to control marijuana and declare it a schedule 1 drug - correct? Now, medical marijuana can't be sold - also correct? Perhaps the route for medical marijuana is for the State to declare there is no commerce, and that it is consequently not subject to FDA rules governing sale of prescription drugs. States license providers (e.g. pharmacists), and the licensing required for a medical grower should satisy this.

And I'm sure this has already been thought of numerous times.

Anyhow, all the articles covering the various city council moratoriums keep getting back to one concern - That if they OK growing operations, the Feds could potentially arrest them for abetting a crime. Didn't Eric Holder's people send a letter out a year or two ago making this threat? Some might say it would be imprudent to go ahead until the State takes a firm position on the matter.

I think WA is ignoring the medical side - They're too busy trying to figure out how much money they can make on the recreational trade.

roger — July 5, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gonzales v. Raich was a travesty, Roger, but yes, the ruling was based on the Commerce Clause.

The perceived risk to government officials is more related to the RICO Act however. Licensing an illegal activity would make those actors complicit in violating the CSA.

But neither have anything to do with the subject matter at hand. Not as long as those government officials do not regulate the activity. No action = no involvement. In my opinion, the City of Vancouver Council is currently at risk because they approved zoning ordinances related to cultivating cannabis.

And it's all a darned joke, right? Because the citizens of this state (as a majority) decided to commit a crime by passing I-502.

Steve Stuart (County Commissioner) is on the right track with the current collective garden debate. His view is the Board should ban "commercial" collective gardens and not address true patient activities not associated with sales for profit.

Last Tuesday's meeting is available on CVTV.
[link text][1]

[1]: http://old.cityofvancouver.us/cvtv/cvtvindex.asp?catID=7&folderID;=3706http://

It's quite obvious Madore is ignorant on the subject. He speaks for several minutes explaining why he would ban an activity the Board doesn't have the authority to, and he doesn't really say anything. Words come from his lips, but they have no meaning.

I dropped the Board a note after the previous meeting (last month). Madore's rambling at this most recent prompted me to again send them a communiqué. I gave Madore Hell in both. I'll post my last email below.

Drift — July 5, 2013 at 10:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hi, Guys.
It’s me, again.

Mr. Madore, at last Tuesday’s meeting you said you hadn’t enough information on the subject so you “researched.” You say you spoke with the Clark County prosecuting attorney, law enforcement and neighborhood associations. And then you state after having those discussions you concluded the best way to respond to the issue was to uphold federal law.

Do you know what you said makes no practical sense?

You did no “research” at all, sir. By your statement it’s apparent you had no discussion what-so-ever with a single individual utilizing cannabis to relieve the symptoms of their malady. Those individuals who’d be effected by whatever decision the Commission makes.

Amazing.

And then, somehow, you jump from referencing discussions with county actors to federal law.

Your arguments are not valid, sir. They aren’t even arguments. Even as “opinion” I find your statements questionable.

Again, you play the “what of the children?!” card. That’s lame, sir - nothing more than a three legged horse in a race. Take a look at the number of 12th graders who’ve smoked pot in the last month. Yes, that means you might have to do some real research (okay, I’ll help: last year near 23%. (6.5% daily)) Do you know why nearly a full quarter of high school seniors smoked pot in the last month? You, sir, and your ilk are sending the wrong message. The same you’ve been sending for 70 years. For the sake of my grandchildren I would ask you to stop.

You lean on “federal law” as though it were a crutch, a post to lean your inhumane views. If you would take a moment to see Mr. Stuart’s opinion on the subject you would know his view in the matter side steps any federal issue; don’t allow commercial enterprises yet leave folks alone in their private activities. There’s no federal conflict there, the USAG has said as much.

And yes, I do mean “inhumane.”

I’m quite certain you aren’t aware of a recent study done by WSU relating to the synergistic relationship between cannabinoids and opioids - or did you happen to read Rossi’s statement about the funding for that particular research being used to buy Cheetos?

You haven’t done any research about the medical aspects of phytocannabionoids at all, have you? No. No you haven’t. You talked to the cops.

Amazing.

Do some real research, Mr. Madore. Your perceived competence in this matter depends on it.

Drift — July 5, 2013 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Man I bet Dave gets some good smoke. I'd like to sit with the King, fire up a bowl, and pitch one of my movie ideas to him.

Dave in the starring role, in a high energy breathtaking re-make of.. [[[Mr. Sardonicus]]]

The owner of a Communist non-descript parts company called Soviet Widgetal, gets involved in local politics and the zany antics begin! From Public Prayer to Capital Cronyism, the terrified populace never knows when to laugh or cry!

---

BTW, why is it that all these whiny pinheads always use the phrase "lame stream media"? I guess that shows how creative they are.
hawkeye — July 5, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

Honestly, my first recollection hearing the term 'lamestream media' came from Republican leader and re-hired Fox News Analyst Sarah Palin. She used it a lot in her Vice Presidential 2008 campaign speeches. Seems like forever! Yet only five short years have passed since Republican leadership deemed she was the most qualified and electable person in the party to hold the Vice President's office.

Then came Ryan. Republicans make history for nominating a woman for VP two elections in a row.

Ted Cruz/Marha Stewart in 2016!

nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 12:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Or should that be Martha Stewart/Ted Cruz 2016.

Either way, they'll lock the coveted Transgender vote.

nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 12:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CARE**

be alert. pay attention to 'this is because we Looooove Yooooou" reasons to raise taxes and implement programs that violate your Consitutional rights.

We're soooo close to losing our God-given freedoms, it should give Americans nightmares.

PLEASE.

Before you vote, RESEARCH.

If you WANT to give up your rights, your actions are clear,

If you DON'T WANT to nullify the Constitution, you must be willing to, once again, STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

DeeLittle — July 6, 2013 at 3:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — July 6, 2013 at 3:12 a.m

Loosen that aluminum hat a little Dee, and tell us just what you are talking about. Is this a general rant or is there something specific you are trying to reference?

hawkeye — July 6, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: Maybe DeeLittle is referring to this?

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/05/us-usa-security-court-idUSBRE96410B20130705?irpc=932

Many conservatives hate the ACLU, but it appears that this organization may be OK, now that it is going after the Obama Justice Administration?

Transparency in court proceedings and decisions should be something we all can agree is good.

Three something in the morning is very early to be worrying about civil rights. I hope you know, Dee, that there are many good and vigilant people, folks much more powerful than you or I, on this issue. Still, it does not hurt to let our political leaders know that it stinks from our perspectives.

As an aside, The Guardian and other British newspapers are becoming more prevalent in the US.

manthou — July 6, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For the record, a personal story I will repeat here:

I never thought The Patriot Act was a good idea. I love the way the government puts a positive lexicon spin on its laws. It should have been dubbed, "The Government Surveillance of Innocent Citizens Act."

In the Fall and Winter of 2011, right after 9/11 and during the investigation of the Portland Seven in the Beaverton area by the FBI (google it), I discovered that my cell phone conversations were being monitored.

A shocked and sympathetic manager of my cell phone carrier disclosed that to me when I was having trouble gaining access to my online account. I talked to one person, was put on hold, and then a supervisor came on and admitted, "Your cell phone conversations are being scrutinized." He could not tell me why, but he speculated: "You are making many calls to one number in NYC."

I am sure, if his superiors found out he told me, he would have been in huge trouble, but I could tell that he did not agree with the policy and was doing his bit to be subversive of it. Maybe.

Anyway, the calls I was making was to a colleague who was going to be presenting an educational program with me at a professional conference in the Spring of 2012. We were discussing it and planning it.

So, if it can happen to boring ol' me (and believe me, the only infraction I ever got was a speeding ticket in the Canadian prairies), it is happening to many of us.

The Patriot Act opened the door, as many "liberals" feared it might.

manthou — July 6, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Typo above, obviously: I meant 2001 and 2002, NOT 2011 and 2012.

Need more caffeine. Quick!

manthou — July 6, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"If you WANT to give up your rights, your actions are clear,"

I'm so tired of giving women the right to govern their own bodies. Republican state politicians are much more qualified to do this than you, I, or qualified Physicians at our local hospitals. And besides, why get Cancer Screenings when Jesus takes care of our health?

While I'm at it, I'm sick and tired of people of color being allowed to vote, let alone in an expedient manner. Let's make it harder than hell, and limit the days and times people vote in 'colored' Counties. And don't let the black folk vote after church on Sundays as they have for a decades old tradition, it's so UnAmerican.

Also I don't think the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should apply to everyone. Let anyone with a buck buy a handgun to ensure that's stifled.

And speaking of stifling, since when do Gays have rights? Let's draft a constitutional amendment to counter the Supreme Courts decision on DOMA. Why should gay people be treated the same as us?

Then there's that stupid right to health care!!! My F'ing GOD! The nerve people have to assume good health care should be provided to everyone. This country has turned into a Socialist nightmare.

"If you WANT to give up your rights, your actions are clear,"

Yes. I believe they are.

Become a Republican.

nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 2:24 p.m

Right on brother, have you signed up and taken the oath yet? I'll bet Madore or one of his Right-on Brothers will give it to you. Hey, maybe Mr. Boner (did I misspell that? I think phonetically it's correct, oh never mind, you know what I mean) will come in person. Wouldn't that be grand?

hawkeye — July 6, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Unfortunately, the health care plan only provides the right to buy health insurance. They've allowed the companies to jack the rates up so high that the only people who can afford it are the very wealthy and those with income low enough to qualify for a substantial rebate. As Ruth Marcus notes in this article, they have to get the young to sign up for plans if they're going to make this work. After looking at those rates I linked to earlier in the week, I'd have said screw that if I was young and single - The penalties will be far cheaper than the premiums. And that's assuming the IRS can catch up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ruth-marcus-the-real-hurdles-in-obamacare/2013/07/04/161088f4-e4d4-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

roger — July 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Remember a few years back when the IOC turned down the US bid for the 2016 Olympics and awarded it to Brazil? Looks like they may regret that decision. Brazilians are protesting the expense of building the stadiums and other venues for the Olympics and next year's soccer World Cup. Earlier this week Brazil beat Spain to win the Confederations Cup soccer championship, while outside the stadium the police were using tear gas and rubber bullets on the crowds. Protesters are upset because they believe the project is about three times over cost, and they feel the money should be used for medical care and housing for the poor. The government is wanting to put on a first class show, and hang the expense.

I'm waiting for the government to counter with all the low income temporary jobs these events will create. Then I can start drawing comparisons to our own CRC project.

roger — July 6, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Closer to the Heart - Rush, with Bubbles from The Trailer Park Boys and Ed Robertson from Barenaked Ladies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHw4RLhE6Xc

roger — July 6, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — July 6, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

Come on Roger, you (and I and everyone else) can make real close comparisons between this and Clark County. How about giving away permits in hopes that it will create "new" jobs, or opening up the parks so that people will come from all over and move here just because we don't charge $5 to park in a County Park, or instead of fixing the CRC, mount a campaign to totally scrap the project and waste the money already spent on it. Of course we don't know who to blame for these (and other) things but I'm sure someone can come up with someone to blame.

hawkeye — July 6, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Keep On Chooglin' - Creedence Clearwater Revival

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKuHNt...

roger — July 6, 2013 at 8:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Can't You See (1977) - Marshall Tucker Band

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ai_M...

roger — July 6, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye -

No comment on the Madore/Mielke shenanigans with parks, etc. I was out at Lewisville a couple of weeks ago - still the nicest park in the area by far.

The CRC had to die. People have been trying to get some sort of compromise out of them for a few years, and the answer has always been "No - we've got a plan and we're sticking with it." Jim Moeller is still singing that song - He says plan another bridge and it will be exactly the same as this one. Maybe he'll change his tune in another 10 years. Read today's Oregonian Opinion page - The consensus is that the 'all the bells and whistles' plan of the CRC led to it becoming too unwieldy and doomed to failure. Even Liz Hovde is opining that a dedicated lane for bus (or BRT?) might be a better idea.

roger — July 6, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — July 6, 2013 at 5:49 p.m.

"maybe Mr. Boner (did I misspell that? I think phonetically it's correct, oh never mind, you know what I mean) will come in person."

That's not only a terrible thought, but an unforgivable visual. He's a jerk for sure!

I'd pay a grand if he didn't!

---

roger — July 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m.

Lots of speculation! Yes the sky is falling. Like any major program, the Health Care Act will take a good decade to iron out the wrinkles.

As the article I pointed you to the other day, already health care is bending the cost curve in a positive way it never has before. Unfortunately the states who refuse the exchanges have too much power to suppress their people. As time goes on, and states like Texas turn Blue, more options will be given to the public.

If you have insurance, and most of us do, you won't see much change if any. I'm surprised so many self-labeled Independents are overly concerned, as well as pessimistic:)

Again, remember the article from same publication.

roger- I know many would like to see this health care act fail, if not for any other reason to watch it crash & burn for entertainment. Some want it to fail, because anything of this magnitude that's successful is bound to boost Dem ranks. Some want it to fail because this Commie black anti-American foreign born thug wants to mind@#$% us all.

But even more are worried this 1st Black President will viewed as successful, and his intentions honorable. The idea of electing another..."that one" again is unbearable to much of the Republican Party. Evident from day one.

But I believe what most want, is this Act called ObamaCare to succeed, not only for our generation, but for generations to come. Health care costs have slowed already.

Besides fantasy, what would you like to see happen?

Let's tweak this and make it work. This after all should be a bi-partisan effort.

Considering the individual mandate is not only a Republican idea, but based on the success in Mass, where a future Republican Presidential nominee enacted it.

nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I volunteer to have my head transplanted on Scarlett Johansson's body.

///Human Head Transplants Now Possible, Italian Neuroscientist Says (VIDEO)///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/06/head-transplant-italian-neuroscientist_n_3533391.html

(captcha is 'only lesabout') It's fate!

nailingit — July 6, 2013 at 9:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Dr. Frankenstein would be proud. :)

Strange not to have a John Laird column today. He retired July 1. I encouraged him to take up blogging, but that would be a busman's holiday for him, I guess.

manthou — July 7, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

I was and still am for a universal approach to coverage - eliminate insurance policies, remove the profit margin, and fund it through taxes. It would be cheaper.

This plan is based on hope. A hope that competition will result in reduced premiums. A hope that state insurance pools will make quality coverage available at lower rates. A hope that businesses will see the benefit of covering their employees. A hope that everyone will do the right thing and be on an insurance plan.

Premiums may be leveling off - But they rose tremendously for the average person after the requirement to include the previously uninsurable went into effect. And we still have a large population out there with no insurance whatsoever - the unemployed - who will keep costs up for everyone. There are no real cost controls in this plan - As long as medical care remains a for profit industry, we will continue to pay through the nose. Just as with gas for our cars, we are a captive market.

As you noted, too many states are opting out. I haven't seen the coverage in what our state will offer, so I can't say whether we're going to be getting a good deal. If the plans offered have high deductibles and co-pays, then I'm not certain the average person will benefit.

They are removing the incentive for businesses to provide medical coverage for their employees. Several of the articles covering the employer mandate being pushed back a year are noting that this coverage was just 'icing on the cake' - that the meat and potatoes of the law is having individuals buy their coverage through the state run exchanges. If this works, I expect the employer mandate to disappear.

Medicare and Medicaid will be the cheapest game in town (except for Vets who can get into the VA system). If I was a 40 year old single male making $50K per year, and saw that my premiums were twice that of a 65 year old with Medicare A & B and a supplemental plan, I'd figure something was wrong with that scenario. And on noting that the penalties for noncompliance don't begin to add up to my policy's cost, I'd probably say screw it - Pay the penalty, sink a few bucks aside for doctor visits, and take my chances.

I truly hope I'm wrong and this plan works out better for all. But so much of it is based on us accepting the need to care about society as a whole. And we killed that back in the late '70s and '80s - What's in it for me?

roger — July 7, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou- I miss John already. It was the one column I never missed.

roger- I hope you're wrong and we all benefit. I get your concerns, but the plan isn't based on just "hope", that would be more than reckless.

Massachusetts as a model, as well as countless experts from health care/insurance industries have weighed in.

Something to remember, in 2008 health care costs were projected to take up 40% of our GDP by 2018, and deemed entirely unsustainable. Something had to be done.

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I am not sure if the give-away to big Pharma was tackled under ACA, you know, the one under prior admin where no costs were negotiated for prescriptions?

All I can say is, so far ACA has saved us money already. Some doc visits are now preventative so we do not pay for it at all, not even the coPay. The real test will be in some procedures. A few years ago, spouse had preventative colonoscopy. When we got the gazillion statements through our insurance, we noticed that for this less than one hour procedure, my hubby was privileged enough to have about four docs and seven support staff. Right! A total scam by the medical profession, jacking up the prices. Our share was over 700 bucks, and that with insurance supposedly covering it. But they invented things like co-pay, share of cost, and a few other words that all meant that you still pay even with insurance that covers 100%. Never saw a bigger scam. There were not that many staff involved. So who lies? In this case, the medical group. With full buy-in of the nonProfit insurance. Still burns me.

luvithere — July 7, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Scary article speaking to the fervency of Republican leadership to take control of local governing.

"He's [Madore] not worried about partisanship in local offices, and he doesn't see himself as a partisan figure. When he gives money in local races, it's not as an extension of the GOP, although he has been involved in the party."

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ju...

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Considering that food is of greater importance in the heirarcy of needs; then I’m sure you’d all agree that it’s high time the supply chain of food producers be nationalized starting with those for profit farms.

kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.

Straw Man Fallacy Defined.

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Food production *is* "nationalized."

Drift — July 7, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, it is also genetically modified, pesticided, and majorly screwed up. Yep.

luvithere — July 7, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If anyone would actually like to try to respond to my modest little observation, then maybe we could skip over the entire food processing and packaging industries, and look at the end-of-chain distributors like the Safeways and the Krogers. One would think that those shareholders should get their grubby little fingers out of the cookie jar, and let not for profit government take the all important food distribution services away from the for profit private sector.

Next up: the home building industry.

kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

What, and kill "free enterprise"? How socialist of you.

Now, on the health insurance discussion. I absolutely love this line from the story on the front page ... "On the down side, some workers can expect to pay more for health care. The biggest hits may be felt by smokers, who must pay a $25 monthly surcharge for health care coverage starting in July 2014" It's about friggin time!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ju...

hawkeye — July 7, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


BTW kids, if you happen to get an email that looks like it's from DHL, chances are it isn't. DO NOT click on the fake links, it will open a zip file and infect your computer. Delete the email!

hawkeye — July 7, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Conservatives. Why talk in the abstract? Reality is so much more fun. And relevant.

A couple of excerpts from a well thought article concerning Republicans 'Identity Crisis".

///Is the GOP man enough for the 21st century?///

The party of "stuffy old men" needs to catch up to contemporary (and fluid) ideals of manhood

Now click over to CNN/Fox News/MSNBC lately and you will witness another sort of masculinity, not fluid, but frozen in time.  It’s the crisis of a dying political party. What was once the Grand Old Party now gazes in the mirror at the Grumpy Old Person, and that body is increasingly male, aging, white and out of touch.

We are not being insolent with these remarks: These are all ideas coming from the Republican Party itself in recent months. Republicans know about their increasingly dated identity, and they want to change. In separate self-studies conducted by the Republican National Committee and the College Republican National Committee since last November’s national election loss, the conclusions point to the need for a more open-minded, inclusive and caring GOP.

---

Voters see the GOP as “stuffy old men” because they have gendered themselves thus nationally.  With Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin’s departures from office, only Kelly Ayotte and Nikki Haley come to mind as female elected leaders moving up the party ranks. The CRNC survey showed the diverse group of “Pelosi, the Clintons, Obama, Kennedy, [and] Gore” named as leaders of the Democratic Party by the “winnable” young voters; however, the same surveyed group considered “Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, [and] Glenn Beck” as current Republican Party heads. You can make your own conclusions about that homogeneous trifecta as “stuffy old men.” But most surprising, those Republican leaders are literally “all talk” outside of political office — none elected by the people.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/is_the_gop_man_enough_for_the_21st_century/

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


the US is the only developed nation in the world with largely a for profit health care system, and spend twice as much as the second-place finisher in per capita spending on health care, hmmmmm. Worse yet, the non-profits have to absorb the patients deemed "unprofitable" by the for profit corporations, after all, gotta take care of those wonderful shareholders, corporations, and investors. As with all corporate welfare, stick the bill to the taxpayers. This is America Inc. and we love socializing corporate losses. We must protect the sacred job creators. We must re-distribute wealth upwards, and we do so with American efficiency. Just look who's wealth has skyrocketed while the "little people's" has plummeted in the last 5 years.

The Walmarts of America Inc. stick us more-than-willing taxpayers with a $6000 a year bill to support the working poor these corporations provide us (according to a study performed in Wisconsin, where medical info was available and that info was able to be cross-referenced to an employer), thereby allowing the Walton kids to make billions a year in profits. You'd think we'd at least get a free Christmas card or something, maybe a few bucks for education out of this lopsided arrangement, maybe even a seat at the table as the lobbyists work our elected critters, but no, we must defer to our corporate masters, because they are the job creators, and without them, we're useless. So we settle for a discounted, piss-poor turkey at Christmas if we spend $50. Ain't "Merica great?

I kid you not, the second word in my captcha was corporation.

mrd — July 7, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It would be nice if big business would get their grubby little fingers out of taxpayer pockets and quit demanding tax breaks.

In addition to rising consumer product costs, big business demands tax welfare from it's purchasers to raise it's profit margin.

Some support welfare and higher taxes, and fail to see or understand it! :))

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So what’s the idea here?

That health care should be a government program, like Medicare for all?

If profit is the culprit in all things evil, then the industries that provide even more basics like food, housing and clothing should also be government owned and operated right?

Then what about all of the industries that supply the materials and tools to make all of those industries produce the stuff and services they provide. Tools and materials like metals and plastics. Glass, petroleum, fertilizers. Why, I’d guess by the time you go through all of them, pretty much everything ought to be government owned and operated.

kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai,

We're already subsidizing health care - Medicaid for the needy, and hospital emergency rooms treat everyone, whether they can pay or not. Under our new health plan, we have to buy the insurance - even our conservative Supreme Court supported that rule (granted, through some neat side stepping of the issue).

The problem with our government run programs is that our Congressman keep getting their grubby pays into the till. Set up a reasonable plan - like in Germany or Canada - and make it hands off.

roger — July 7, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wasn’t talking about subsidies Roger, but….

How about federal subsidies paid to farmers NOT to grow food. A program established as an FDR New Deal program. The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 was found unconstitutional by Scotus, over taxing issues, but Congress got around that with a new agricultural act which continues to this day. The purpose was to raise the prices that farmers received, even though many folks could not aford to buy food. A situation which is analgous to the food stamp increases taking place today. Just how much sense does that make?

Sure, government subsidizes all sorts of things at all levels. I don’t see that as a valid reason for government ousting the private sector. The world has already seen enough of the results of that. I’d rather see government pay for indigents’ healthcare. Better to run the country into the ground and start over, than see that kind of government.

I might add, Roger, that you yourself have had a choice thing or two to say about government beauracracy.

kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — July 7, 2013 at 6:09 p.m.

Straw Man Fallacy Defined X 10

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Better to run the country into the ground and start over, than see that kind of government."

It's exactly what this tea party movement is about. Narrow minded Ideology forced on the majority from a minority.

Run Government into the ground unless they get their way. Expect another debt ceiling debacle, much do to this brand of mindset. The Limbaugh Lovers of Anarchy.

Truly the term, "America, Love It Or Leave It" was never more apropos.

nailingit — July 7, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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