Open forum, June 3-9

Published:

 

The forums are moderated by Columbian staff and our community guidelines and terms of service still apply. To participate, login with your Columbian.com ID or register for an account at Columbian.com.

Columbian staff members create new forum threads. Don't see a forum topic here that fits your comments? Email Web Editor John Hill -- john.hill@columbian.com.


118 comments

Comments

**Report: How GOP lost young voters**

In the report, the young Republican activists acknowledge their party has suffered significant damage in recent years. A sampling of the critique on:

**Gay marriage:** “On the ‘open-minded’ issue … [w]e will face serious difficulty so long as the issue of gay marriage remains on the table.”

**Hispanics:** “Latino voters … tend to think the GOP couldn’t care less about them.”
Perception of the party’s economic stance: “We’ve become the party that will pat you on your back when you make it, but won’t offer you a hand to help you get there.”

**Big reason for the image problem:** The “outrageous statements made by errant Republican voices.”

**Words that up-for-grabs voters associate with the GOP:** “The responses were brutal: *closed-minded, racist, rigid, old-fashioned.”*

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/gop-youth-vote-report-92119.html#ixzz2VA6Qn8EX

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Big Bro just got a whole lot bigger.

**Supreme Court upholds DNA swabbing of people under arrest**

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/03/18722878-supreme-court-upholds-dna-swabbing-of-people-under-arrest?lite

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We all know that our public schools can not promote religion in the classroom in any form.. they can't hand out religious material, read the Bible or form prayer groups, or pray. So.. why is it in Michigan they are allowing a policy which fully accommodates student-led prayer in all schools well as unexcused absences for students who leave early on Fridays for Jumu’ah prayers.

So Muslims can conduct religious activities within a public school, but Christians can’t or go off-site to receive voluntary Bible lessons? What’s wrong with this picture?

Is political correctness accommodating such hypocrisy?

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.

Frankly, I thought you must be mistaken, so I did a little looking. Well, I'll be damned...

Now, I'll play a little Devilish game (how I do so enjoy that).

Are the religious prohibitions speaking to "schools" or "classrooms?" And if we really like dancing on the head of a pen, at a school, does the classroom end at the door?

Oh, and: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/us/mississippi-requires-public-schools-to-develop-policies-on-prayer.html?_r=0

Yes, I'm sure I've a special place allocated in the Kingdom. ;^)

Drift — June 3, 2013 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift, if memory serves me correct, NO religion, NO prayers none, nada, nothing is to be taught or spoken in public schools or classroom unless it has to do with the curriculum (history, science).

I do know when my kids were in school they touched on different religions in history classes. To give each child a bit of info on the different beliefs. Which I have no problem with, but since it has been six yrs since I had one in the public school system who knows what they do now.

What I do have a problem with is allowing what is taking place in Michigan. Allowing one set of beliefs to leave school for prayer, and student lead prayer over others.

If they allow this for one religion, then they best allow ALL religions.

Classrooms/schools ends at the main door as far as public schools goes. Once a child is off school property they are no longer accountable for that student.

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Man, the fine print isn't all that fine. The Supreme Court's decision states **mandatory** prayer is prohibited.

Prayer happens all the time in schools and on school grounds across the Country.

And that ol' *liberal* ACLU will fight tooth and nail to keep it this way.

(Beware of false prophets:)

http://www.realclearreligion.org/articles/2011/12/08/quit_thinking_school_prayer_is_banned.html

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit, no one can stop someone from silently saying prayers, but when my kids were in high school they and others with them WERE stopped from having a prayer around the flag pole BEFORE school day started.
They were told it disrupted the school day and no longer could do it.

They could not hand out any form of religious flyers, they could not have a prayer club, no promoting religion in anyway. Was told the law and that the school and the school district followed the law.
My daughter at the time had stickers on her backpack some were religious some not, we were called and told she had to remove the religious ones or she'd face detention.

As I said if one belief is not allowed no others should be either.

Did you know one religion doesn't allow the kids to stand and say the pledge of intelligence? They view the flag as an idol?

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh oopd..allegiance NOT intelligence

THats what I get for talking on the phone and typing at the same time.

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Did you know one religion doesn't allow the kids to stand and say the pledge of intelligence? They view the flag as an idol?*

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

Jehova Witnesses I believe. We had one of them critters when I was in Sixth Grade. Took some moxy for the kid to stand up for his beliefs. I respected that.

I can't speak to your personal experience, only the law.

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 2:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Congress should take a pledge of intelligence! :))

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yep correct the JW's.

nailingit, at one point when my daughter and when my son graduated high school one of the students sneezed so the speaker (student) said "My God bless you" So there are ways around it.

Law is law, no teaching, reading of the Bible or lead prayer in public schools and that should hold for ALL religious beliefs.

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Congress should take a pledge of intelligence! :))

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As should the whole lot of politicians!!!

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

That's the BEST substitution of a word that I have seen here in a long time. I am sure you meant allegiance, not intelligence. Made me smile. Thanks.

Not allowed to recite pledge? Is that the Jehovah's Witnesses?

luvithere — June 3, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Too late for the politicians Elisi - LOL. No sign of intelligence offered so even a pledge would be useless.

Agreed- ALL religious beliefs need to be treated equally.

luvithere — June 3, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI- My youngest is graduating this year. I'll keep an eye/ear out for wrongdoings. :)

Personally, I think the way the law reads is prudent and responsible. We'll always have those who test the limits of our constitution, and I think thats a good thing. It helps define the founders intent, and at the same time, refines and adds clarity so the law can be applicable in our 21st century world.

Most of the time. Others.....ehhh

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal


religion is stupid. In the words of Buffalo Springfield, "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong".

AND, in the words of my favorite SNL character and philosopher, Rosanne Rosannadana, "It's Always Somethin'"

What else is there to say?

hawkeye — June 3, 2013 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not trying to get after you, ELISI, but when you insinuate you know the law, when obviously you don't (me neither) it rankles me a tad.

I quote you thusly from your first post: "So Muslims can conduct religious activities within a public school, but Christians can’t or go off-site to receive voluntary Bible lessons? What’s wrong with this picture?"

And I follow with your comment at 2:43 with: "Law is law, no teaching, reading of the Bible or lead prayer in public schools and that should hold for ALL religious beliefs."

And, finally, to paraphrase an idiom, 'You're a bit of a fart in a skillet.'

Because one of those statements is not like the other.

Telling us your opinion is fine and dandy. Have at it. But please don't try to pursuade us you have done any research in the matter. Should you decide to do so, however, you may consider starting here: http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Public-education/The-law-and-its-influence-on-public-school-districts-An-overview/Religion-and-Public-Schools.html

Myself, I feel if a person's religion is so devout it affects a public school's corriculum, then that child is at the wrong school. That being written, I'm in full 50% agreement with you. ;^)

Drift — June 3, 2013 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — June 3, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.

The SNL thing/subject matter reminded me of something I read earlier today.

**Hotseat: Julia Sweeney**

The actress best known as SNL’s Pat on why atheists should still pray with their parents.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-19746-hotseat_julia_sweeney.html

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Another long time employee of the county leaving.Makes one wonder if they are leaving because things won't go their way.Is this an exodus of the good old boys or are the 2 boys chasing them all off?

timerick — June 3, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No Drift I do not KNOW the law, not a lawyer and you aren't either. I know what was told to us not only by the school system my husband and I grew up in and the one our kids went to. Both in different states.

Bible verse reading was stopped and morning prayers were stopped by law by the time both of us reached high school.

Neither of my kids, one 35 and one 24 ever had the Bible read in the school district they attended, neither was allowed to form a prayer club, neither was allowed to speak aloud prayer or verses from the Bible.

Don't get me wrong, religion no matter which one has no place in public schools.

My complaint earlier was if they are going to allow special treatment in public schools for one religious belief they should do so for ALL of them.

I swear some of you would argue about a brand new rope used to hang you with.

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


On another note for those who use honey you might want to check and see where is comes from..

http://www.realfarmacy.com/asian-honey-banned-in-europe-is-flooding-u-s-grocery-shelves/

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The foot bath thing I (think I) take exception with. An empty room to pray in, naw. Just as long as me and my fellow pastafarians can be accommodated as well. We'll try not to get anything on the carpets.

I'm not arguing, really. I simply prefer to look at things (somewhat) objectively. I'll admit, it's tough to stay removed from the subjective. Impossible, actually. Still, one can try eh?

Nope, I'm not a lawyer, though I did play one once. Heh.

Drift — June 3, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, we must be more tolerant here on the east side of The Couve - Christian Students United is an approved organization and is listed on three of the campuses. They get to use a classroom for whatever they do to reinforce their faith. There are also several clubs devoted to anime, sci fi, Magic, and who knows what else that might be considered related. The Gay Straight Alliance is on just about every campus. Sadly, though approved, there appears to be no active Classic Rock clubs. There are several politically oriented groups, and a Young Democrats club. However, there is no Young Republicans. Maybe that's where the discrimination exists here?

roger — June 3, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*However, there is no Young Republicans.* (No they is not.:)

I've noticed a few GOP leaders have been putting on some weight. They could be eating them.

Christie may have eaten them also. If not by now, he'll have em' for breakfast this election cycle. ;)

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A follow on to Elisi's article on honey.

(I googled Asian honey; the first site had nothing to do with bee honey.) Anyhow, the level of antibiotics is almost miniscule. The level of lead is another thing entirely - very dangerous level. It seems most of the Chinese store their honey in lead containers before sending it off. And once the world began refusing to take their honey, they started "purifying" it and selling it to India, where it's mixed with Indian honey and exported.

A test that's used is to look at the pollen count in the honey - that filtering process China uses removes the pollen (and the flavor). Many of the national supermarkets have honey brands with very low pollen counts - to include Safeway, QFC and Kroger. Trader Joes and PCC Natural sell good honey.

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/11/09/most-honey-sold-in-u-s-grocery-stores-not-worthy-of-its-name/

A list of some of the brands.

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/honey-without-pollen-food-safety-news1.pdf

roger — June 3, 2013 at 6:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails - There is no Young Republicans (as in club; I suspect there might be a half dozen or so of the youngsters who might claim to be a Repub, in which case 'are' would be appropriate).

As for putting on weight, don't most of we old timers have to admit to the same? And as Shakespeare's Caesar noted --
"Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look,
He thinks too much; such men are dangerous."

roger — June 3, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Well Elisi, probably unintentionally, but today you really jump started some funny comments. All over the place, too.
Very enjoyable.
Guys, I buy local honey at the Camas Produce store. Very very tasty and just honey. At least I know where it comes from.
Kinda typical that we get the Chinese rejects, isn't it.

luvithere — June 3, 2013 at 8:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*...in which case 'are' would be appropriate).*

roger — June 3, 2013 at 6:17 p.m.

Totally meant in good jest roger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNdmyS...

*Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look, He thinks too much; such men are dangerous."*

Amen to that! (I know, I know)

*As for putting on weight, don't most of we old timers have to admit to the same?*

I still think conservative leadership could be eating them.

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*Is this an exodus of the good old boys or are the 2 boys chasing them all off?*

timerick — June 3, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.

Considering it's their top legal advisor leaving for a job making less money, (perks or not) and...

*When asked whether the current makeup of the Board of Clark County Commissioners was an influence in his decision to leave, he would only say, “At this time, the city is just a better fit for me.”*

I guessing it's the latter.

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 9:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If you've got a couple minutes, a write providing insight into the Republican side of the House. It's a good one.

**House Republicans broken into fighting factions**

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-have-broken-into-fighting-factions/2013/06/03/7533e606-b8ff-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_allComments.html?ctab=all_

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Apologies. Above link went to the comment section. Correct link below. It's really worth the read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-have-broken-into-fighting-factions/2013/06/03/7533e606-b8ff-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_story.html

nailingit — June 3, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


tax subsidy of major proportions-keep in mind Walmart made a $17B profit last year. The article also said these hourly workers made about $18K a year on average hourly wages averaging $8.80. They must have assumed they worked 2000 hrs per year, making them full-time. I don't think Walmart has many folks getting 40 hrs per week.

That means a single Wal-Mart Supercenter store in Wisconsin may require taxpayers to shell out as much as $1.7 million per year -- or nearly $6,000 per employee -- in aid, according to one estimate in the report. A second estimate pegged the cost to taxpayers at a lower $904,542 per Supercenter. The study examined Wal-Mart stores in Wisconsin because of the availability of Medicaid enrollment data for the fourth quarter of 2012.

"When low wages leave Wal-Mart workers unable to afford the necessities of life, taxpayers pick up the tab," the report notes. "Taxpayer-funded public benefit programs make up the difference between Wal-Mart's low wages and the costs of subsistence."

mrd — June 4, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**'Moral Monday' Protest In North Carolina: 151 Arrested As Activists Decry 'Extreme' GOP Agenda**

Upwards of 1,600 demonstrators amassed outside the North Carolina General Assembly in Raleigh on Monday, railing against the "extreme agenda" of the GOP-controlled legislature, WNCN reported. As attendees of the "Mega Moral Monday" protest spilled from the square outside the building and into the state Senate chambers, WRAL reported that 151 were arrested and released by 5 a.m. on Tuesday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/moral-monday-protest_n_3383149.html

http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/video/12512143/#/vid12512143

nailingit — June 4, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Okay...I'm all over the place when it comes to religion even though I am still in school studying theology! I am a firm believer in God but not the labels of religion. Add Seventh Day Adventist to not saying the pledge of allegiance. Never seen it in their schools.

ELISI — June 3, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. sounds like an Evergreen school district school! Last I heard they still do prayer at the flag pole at Heritage. If anyone remembers the Westboro whimps protesting there- Heritage showed their muscles! I'm alumni lol

Hawkeye, I have to laugh when you say religion is stupid. I like your 'how it is' point of view! Crazy how people put a label on anything in society and then taint it? (Not saying that's what I thought you did at all...it's just the first thing that popped in my head.)

mxfun118 — June 4, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"RIP Frank Lautenberg. Governor Chris Christie praised his service, and asked if the funeral will involve a buffet." - Bill Mahar

hawkeye — June 4, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mxfun118 — June 4, 2013 at 6:16 p.m

Thanks for your input, do me a favor though, will you? Come back and tell me your thoughts when you're say, 35.

hawkeye — June 4, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — June 4, 2013 at 11:19 a.m

" Why is it always the Republican party that comes up with statements like that?"

Because you spend your time on liberal propaganda sites like Huffington post, if you spent your time on conservative propaganda sites you would see all of the stupid things said by democrats. Either way, using the statements of a few to try to discredit the entire party is a strawman fallacy.

frobert — June 5, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — June 5, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

"the square mind short sightedness come most of the time from the right side of the political spectrum."

I have to disagree, "social conservatives" are not exclusive to the right, in fact their view on more government control and intervention is more indicative of the left.

frobert — June 5, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, after the two USCG meetings, and their online comments page, once again the CRC is taking a beating from the public. Quite odd, given that the claim from some has always been that the anti-CRC faction is just a small group of vocal "we hate all progress" types. And from reading the comments of many of the newcomers (on The Columbian) to this fight it appears that the public is FINALLY starting to do their own cost benefit analysis - and the CRC project is coming up woefully short.

roger — June 6, 2013 at 5:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"If you drop light rail, you get no money."

holycrapola — June 6, 2013 at 6:26 a.m

Wrong again, buckwheat. If "we" drop lightrail, we will not have money FOR lightrail. The money promised is for "rapid transit". Not specifically lightrail, BRT is also included in that category.

hawkeye — June 6, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If we drive on and build the CRC, we'll be draining several billions from the local economy that will not be there to fix more pressing issues. For example, Oregon already has the basics of a plan to clear up the congestion in the I5/I84 Rose Quarter area; one that cost projections show will cost about $400 million. This has been identified as one of the worst interchanges in the entire interstate highway network (unlike the I5 bridge, where this is merely claimed to be a major problem). The source of funds to pay for their CRC cost share is uncertain; why not use whatever that may end up being on this area instead? The potential benefit far outweighs the CRC project - It will move traffic through the area faster and alleviate vehicular pollution - The CRC will increase the traffic jam in the Portland I5 corridor and consequently raise the pollution level there. (This is a major point made by Joe Norquist.)

roger — June 6, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


one person has been the most vocal in favor for the crc on here and that is you hc. why is that? sounds as if you have something to gain here..
you have your hands in it someway, like contractor or maybe software programmer..how much are you to gain monetarily?

others may not smell it, but I do..something smells in here..

jasonb — June 6, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So how does everyone feel about the NSA subpoenaing Verizon for millions of phone records? Verizon has to turn over millions of in and out going call records for all of their customers on a daily basis.

Is this yet another government invasion of our privacy, another control tactic by government? Just what is it they hope to find out?
How many will be falsely accused of wrong doing?

ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I was stunned to hear the government, under the Obama administration, was getting all those phone records. Maybe they're trying to made the IRS look better. Bad enough Obama can fight his own little secret wars, now this. And who in the hell set up a foreign intelligence SECRET court? And we have to find out from a foreign newspaper? They'd better watch out, they may end up in a secret court.

mrd — June 6, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 9 a.m./mrd — June 6, 2013 at 9:34 a.m./holycrapola — June 6, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.

According to Senator Feinstein, this has been debated amongst the Senate for years, and litigated as well. This was a highly classified sealed document (which btw has been available for our hard working industrious politicians on Capital Hill to review--for years) obtained by a foreign news org. My opinion is this leak should be investigated to the max.

Interesting this is coming out the same time as the Manning trial.

And not limited to Verizon customers. Under the Patriot Act all servers are/will be forced to comply.

It's one of those times we/public shouldn't let the language of our conversation get ahead of the topic. This will be explained in detail in the following days.

Lindsey Graham is all for it. That alone gives me pause.

nailingit — June 6, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

Good morning. Where did you get that if the bridge is built it will drain the economy of 2 BILLION dollars.. That’s allot of cashola, Moola, denero, greenbacks....Just wondering....Thanks
And how much is it going to cost each of us here in Clark County.. No one has ever thrown a figure out that I know of... Obviously if it's built there will be tolls to cross, I get that, but how much in Taxes are we all going to be paying.. That’s really the biggest gripe I hear is that we’re going to be paying for it, but no one has said how much...
One more thing, has anyone ever seen what the bridge's impact will be on Clark County businesses during the building stage and after. Will more people purchase locally ??? I think so...

vanwadreamer — June 6, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Vanwadreamer,

No idea where that $2 billion came from; as near as I can recall, I've only applied a $50 million per year dollar figure to tolls, which will come out of what most spend locally. That's based on a $4 per direction toll during rush hour (lower than the CRC estimate) under variable tolling and applied to 25,000 commuters (less than half the total commuting work force now); this 25,000 may be a bit high with an untolled I205 diversion, but will be low in the future. This all adds up to roughly $50 million per year. Over a typical 35 year tolling revenue bond period we get about $1.75 billion. I'm sure a little work will find the other $250 million and much more. (Mitigating just three companies is going to cost us over $100 million.)

The 10 cents per gallon gas tax (if passed) will be spread across the entire state and be for many projects - I'm not sure we could come up with a dollar figure just for our County and the CRC project. And so far, we're refusing to pay the C-Tran sales tax for LRT O&M; costs (actually about $5 million per year to start; half is coming from cutting bus routes, which we already pay for in taxes). This cost goes up incrementally every year; C-Tran has a document on their website that shows the O&M; climbing to around $10 million per year (if my memory is correct) by 2035.

Something to consider is what we're being told about "cost shares" and how tolls will cover $1.2 billion. That is a poor guess, in that the $400 million federal loan is probably not coming (the money isn't in the program they were intending to use) and Oregon will be using tolling revenues to repay the over $700 million due on the bonds theyll sell to raise their cost share. WA will also revert to selling tolling revenue bonds if the gas sales tax is killed and they (somehow) decide to continue with the project. And then we can address cost overruns - something very typical for government projects - this would also be paid for from tolling revenues. It's very easy to see how the bulk of the bridge cost will be paid for by those who drive it every day - the commuters from our side of the river.

roger — June 6, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And not limited to Verizon customers. Under the Patriot Act all servers are/will be forced to comply.

nailingit — June 6, 2013 at 10:31 a.m

That is true to a point. Because of the Patriot Act they have the right to check email, phone records etc ONLY (correct me if wrong) if they suspect wrong doing such as terrorists activity etc.
Now with what I have read they are obtaining everyone's phone records.
Now with that said, what are they looking for exactly that requires them to all of a sudden grab everyone's phone records?
From what I understand there are "key words" and "key phrases" that red flagged an account in question.
and...if they are looking solely for terrorist groups, well those cheapo talk n go phones you can buy anywhere from wally's world to 7-11 are untraceable. What makes one think that a group bent on harming is going to be stupid enough to use anything else?

ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi - Under Pres Bush, they were monitoring calls going to/coming from overseas without a warrant (as supposedly required). This latest effort appears to be one of obtaining calling logs, and screening to see who is calling numbers in places bad guys live. We can argue all day over which is worse; when we accepted the Bush Admin's efforts to protect us from terrorist attacks after 9/11 the precedent for our government running roughshod over what we previously considered rights to privacy were given up.

If they're screening calls going to somewhere overseas, I'd say numerous one-time calls from the same general area would be a lot more suspicious - it waves a flag that implies someone is attempting to cover their tracks.

roger — June 6, 2013 at 5:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If they're screening calls going to somewhere overseas, I'd say numerous one-time calls from the same general area would be a lot more suspicious - it waves a flag that implies someone is attempting to cover their tracks.

roger — June 6, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.

I agree roger, but I am questioning is why now gather everyone's phone records?
I saw on the news about a week ago that Obama did take the country down from the level we had been in. If the threat level has been dropped, why all the phone records, email gathering?
The records from everyone in the US.

Here is a few links worth reading...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/prism-tech-giants-shock-nsa-data-mining

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324299104578529112289298922.html

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/06/why-the-govt-sources-leaked-prism-165623.html#.UbEN7A7jf9Q.twitter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html

ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.

Of course the alternative is to just ignore all those calls and give the bad guys free reign. I myself don't really care if they look at my calls or not. I know I'm not a bad guy.

hawkeye — June 6, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, breaks this down really well, and answers your questions concerning calls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwgxe0...

*If they are looking solely for terrorist groups, well those cheapo talk n go phones you can buy anywhere from wally's world to 7-11 are untraceable.*

Check this out.

**Lose The Burners: Court Okays Prepaid Phone Tracking**

http://www.informationweek.com/security/mobile/lose-the-burners-court-okays-prepaid-pho/240005614

Who's to blame them (terrorists) for not thinking we're stupid?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/10/us/august-01-brief-is-said-to-warn-of-attack-plans.html?pagewanted=all&src;=pm

nailingit — June 6, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye I don't really care either.The thing that bothers me is that we are giving up one more right that we have had.How many more are we going to lose.I know that we have to be on our toes as far as world events go.But at what price?

timerick — June 6, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger I saw a email from Ann Rivers and she said the the funding for the CRC is effectively dead.I hope she is right.also if the funding is dead can the 81 mil.that the govenor vetoed be brought back?

timerick — June 6, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 6, 2013 at 6:37 p.m

Even the pre-paid can be traced? Ha! How so if one purchases a gift card and pays with it? No name to purchase gift card, no name to purchase phone, no name to use gift card to pay to talk.

ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye and timerick,

I agree I have nothing to hide so it doesn't bother me if they should have a look-see on mine.
It's what timerick said about "what price" that bothers me as well as the fact one can do what I told nailingit in above post..
no name to purchase gifts cards or phone, so tell me how can they trace that?

ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi, I also do not know how they could trace those, but maybe they can check the other end?

I know my phone was tapped way before this when we lived in California. Could hear the click when I called Germany and when I called a specific friend with whom I always (ok, I will admit it here) ranted about Bush. No other times. Odd, ain't it? So I am not surprised about the latest. Half of me almost understands it, times have changed, etc. etc., the other half is struggling with either being disgusted with the loss of rights or depressed about the loss. Can't make up my mind.

luvithere — June 6, 2013 at 8:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — June 6, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.

If I told you, I'd hafta .....

nailingit — June 6, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal



i understand The Patriot Act and the necessity for it.

i also know it conflicts with the 4th amendment.

***BEFORE*** it becomes 1984, we must reconcile these two necessities.

the MUST be a compromise *from the government perspective* as to what they deem absolutely essential sources to monitor.

i'm pretty sure that's not 100% of the u.s. population, on a daily basis.

DeeLittle — June 6, 2013 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Of course the alternative is to just ignore all those calls and give the bad guys free reign. I myself don't really care if they look at my calls or not. I know I'm not a bad guy."

I'm sure we've all heard the line about when they came for the other guy, OK, but when they came for me, everyone else was gone.

mrd — June 6, 2013 at 11:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick - I suppose it could be added to the Transportation bill. But if the Gov has line item veto (how he removed it the first time)....

The "Senate Coalition" majority has been reinstated, so hopefully Sen Rivers is correct. I received the same newsletter. I'm not a fan of the Repub party as a whole, but I do like her; she hasn't forgotten her working class roots like so many do.

roger — June 7, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm not a fan of either party Roger,but when people use common sense I will support them.Holyc every person has a right to support with their own personal money any cause that they choose.Take a look at who supports the pro CRC group.Several unions and that comes from personal money from their members.Also take a look at who the Identity Clark County group are.These are people with big money and lots of connections that stand to make money off this disaster of project.

timerick — June 7, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyc I don't want to get in a pronlonged argument about this.But nothing you say is going to change the way that things are done.Money is the driving factor and always has been and always will be.It is impossible to take money out of system.Even the environmental groups need money to do what they do.Do you think for one minute that all their attorneys work for free.Someone is paying them.

timerick — June 7, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger From 1:37 Yesterday..

Thanks for the explanation.. I appreciate the breakdown.. Interesting to say the least.. Hope everyone has a super weekend.. get out and enjoy our sights.

vanwadreamer — June 7, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyc I don't like things any better than you do.But this whole world revolves around money.It has since time began.It was either I had more goats than you or you had more chickens.It was still currency.And it corrupted people then and it does it now.You tell us how to change it.

timerick — June 7, 2013 at 11:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Interesting list Nail.From the looks of it is both sides of the isle.Also several names of people and companys that will greatly benefit from the construction of the project.Also a few that have received tax subsidies from the tax payers.The one company that I noticed missing was The Al Angelo Co.They might be staying neutral as they have several holdings in down town Vancouver.

timerick — June 7, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, that Columbia River Crossing Coalition represents the viewpoint of those who stand to profit from the project. Most of what they say is unsupported statements. Try reading the website put together by those who oppose the project.
http://www.crcfacts.info/

roger — June 7, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


B. Hart sounds like sheep in heat. (and I thought Stevie Nicks could herd em' in!)

timerick — June 7, 2013 at 4:04 p.m./roger — June 7, 2013 at 8:07 p.m.

I hadn't talked with you guys for a time, so I posted the CRC site figuring you two to respond, just to say hey.

Hey.

Anyway, I looked at the crc "facts" site, and found it to be a bit amateurish and misleading. Moving crime from one place to another as a lead in? Is this the best the anti-crc folks have done?

Do you guys have a list of businesses that *do not* support the CRC? The list for support is pretty impressive.

Alternatives to the CRC--and a third bridge is listed? You guys do understand this looks comedic. Unless I'm missing something, what negotiations have there been for a third bridge? Any details?

I was surprised to read this as one of the facts. *Overall track record: Light rail is a financial disaster in both Portland and Seattle,*

I didn't see any info to support this claim. It could be there as I didn't click on all the links offered. (I stopped after the 3rd bridge) I didn't realize that light rail has been a financial disaster, as I don't follow Seattle's economic well being.

How has light rail been a financial disaster in these communities? Will they recover?

It sure seems as though a lot of Vancouver based civil engineers & auditors have popped up the last few years offering their expertise. Who on the CRC facts site represents qualified opposition in this area? (not to Couch this issue)

I think there's some money being fleeced alright.

Do you guys still have that Birther Bagger Lawyer representing you?

Not to sound snide, (not too much anyway:) but really, is this all there is?

The anti-CRC crowd seems to be driven by emotion and rhetoric. This site does nothing to dispel that notion.

And most of the Face Book folk that are opposed do you no favor.

You guys need a make over. A consultant. Someone with insight and the knowhow to fix your situation.

You guys need me.

$1000 per day + expenses.

(weekends/holidays/personal days off, but will work from home for triple time pay)

nailingit — June 7, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — June 8, 2013 at 6:47 a.m.

Agreed on Bonamassa. I've been a fan forever, and Dude's got skills like no other. He was playing Stevie Ray at covers at nine!

nailingit — June 8, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Muddling through Lou Talk this morning gave one solid takeaway.

**• Columbian Web users will soon begin to see a pay model for the website.**

:(

nailingit — June 8, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail:Roger can explain a lot of what you want to know a lot better than I can.He has most of the information down pat.As far as light rail costing,most if not all projects have tremendous cost over runs as per the Tri-Mets own figures.Also we would be picking up some of Tri-Mets debt that as of right now they are unable to service.As far as it effecting me,the rail line will go 40 feet from my office door with trains stopping traffic 10 to 12 times during both morning and afternoon rush hours.15th st. is the major entry into Vancouver for heavy trucks going to the port and the industrial areas.It will back up traffic back to the I-5 off ramps for a good share of the day.I already deal with some pretty unsavory people because of the C-Tran bus stops that are on every block from 6th st. to 4th plain.In the past 4 years I have been broke into 3 times and had windows broke 5 times.Not to mention the graffety I have to paint over every few months.New bridge yes,but no light rail.The rail is only going to Clark College and I don't see how that can help commuters coming from north Clark County or east Clark County.

timerick — June 8, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder how the advertisers feel about a pay wall. Newspapers make their money from advertising. Subscribers are just the cream.

By erecting a wall, the ads will get less traffic.

We've been getting the dead tree version of The Columbian for well over 20 years (delivered this morning at 0417). I would suppose subscribers would be able to enter their name and account number and skip the online fee.

But it would suck being here all by myself ;^)

Drift — June 8, 2013 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well Drift I will stay with you as I also get the C delivered.Something about reading paper I still like.Old fashioned I guess.

timerick — June 8, 2013 at 10:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I read the funnies while having my daily constitutional, time. It just wouldn't feel right holding some sort of hand fondled device. ;^)

I do like paper, too. I've read one book on Mrs. D's Nook. It was okay I guess, but...

I've a library up here in the loft; everything from Zane Grey to Isaac Asimov, and there's scholastic stuff, too; engineering, biology, physics...

My oldest book is from 1898. I've four Reader's Digest Condensed hardbacks, the oldest a volume from '68. Over there is a TIME magazine from '69. Ed Kennedy's face is on the cover. He doesn't look happy. There's a shelf stuffed with The American Peoples Encyclopedia - from 1959 ;^)

There's 'prolly five hundred books shelved behind me. I've read more than most of them (excluding text books. I use those for reference), even the Deathlands novels, heh.

Yeah, I likes me some paper, too.

Drift — June 8, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — June 4, 2013 at 7:09 p.m

LOL okay old timer...make sure you have an ear trumpet ready...k?

You must be one of those guys that chases after the noisy bikes and cars with your cane? BRAAAAAAAAP hahahahaha :P

mxfun118 — June 8, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift and Timerick - I also get the hard copy Columbian. It does sort of suck that most of the news has already been posted on the web version (and read) though. But it's part of my morning ritual - Up at 4 a.m., feed the cats, get my coffee, read what I haven't already seen, and work the sudoku puzzle.

Books rule - One of my favorite pastimes is browsing the Barnes and Noble discount racks, and an occasional visit to a couple of used book stores. I've got some Asimov (the Foundation Trilogy is a classic) and other SciFi, but tend toward books like Gore Vidal's historical novels (Burr and Empire, to name a couple). That and history books in general - I'm muddling my way through Heroditus' Histories now, and am determined to finally finish it (I've been trying for about 40 years).

There's something satisfying about reading a book (or other print medium) that TV and the internet can't come close to duplicating. I thought a Kindle would be an interesting substitute for traveling, and loaded a bunch of books onto one. After a couple of months of trying to like it, I gave up and tossed the thing onto a bookshelf.

roger — June 8, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick - I've spelled out the basics of what I consider wrong with the CRC many times. And actually, I'm not part of what I suspect is the majority of the anti-CRC crowd, who say build a new bridge but leave light rail off. To me, there's no reason to replace the bridge at this time; the priority should be to get the I5 through Portland under control first. Until that's done, a new bridge does very little to get traffic moving.

I'm not against rail; I can see a benefit to a commuter rail system. I am against the LRT portion of the CRC, however - for the reasons you mention about what it will do to the downtown, and for the reason that it's going to be used to build a city downtown. I'm against a real city anywhere over here; cities drain from the surrounding suburbs and result in everything becoming more expensive. Cities bring a lot more people, most of who do not live in the city - What will happen is the rest of the County will become overcrowded. Right now, the east side is still fairly comfortably; do we really want to become like Northeast Portland? Battle Ground can be our Gresham.

roger — June 8, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Everyone needs a hero I guess.

We can do *so* much better than this.

We have. We can. And we will.

Sayonara

nailingit — June 9, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Sayonara?

Don't bail, nail. Don't leave me alone with...

Drift — June 9, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift - Read the last para of HC's 10:22 comment - I suspect that's what Sayonara refers to.

roger — June 9, 2013 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, roger. I no longer read the crap so I missed the reference.

Drift — June 9, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"When I exit out of this world, I will leave with a thought, a sad one. All my life I saw how people were taken advantage of and they did not care even if accepting reality was against their own interest. Next time, please hold my number in a separate bucket, I choose not to come back to this one..."

holycrapola — June 9, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

You can be proud of yourself HC, just pat yourself on the back and reassure yourself that in their time of need, you stood there and watched without lifting a finger. Congrats, YOU ARE A REAL MAN!

hawkeye — June 9, 2013 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift @ 2:04- You had it right. At least bail for a good while. I didn't read the post roger referred to. (now that I've read it I can understand what roger meant-applicable as well.) Anyway, I assessed my views on torture, but they were compromised with too many episodes of 24. (Jacks Back in 14') That said, I felt overcome with compassion for my fellow man, (and a few hits of OG Kush) and it caused me to rethink. I think.

We need to talk about dope often so you will post more. (that, and it's a great subject)

I miss manthou. I miss lang & Basil & ..... even miss goldies poems, appreciating

*the glistening Bush Tits, their perfectly shaped nests, moistened with early morning dew. Whilst Scrub Jays lurk, sucklings a snort, wantonous pigs penetrate their nests and make them coo.*

This is the only place I post. And if I didn't post here, I probably wouldn't post anywhere.

That's most likely a good thing for many, but it's nice to have this outlet/inlet info thing this forum lends itself to.

Just seems like it's gone to hell as of late. Polarized, like so much of the real world.

It's like, slow motion all of a sudden. Like the earth is devolving.

Good dope.

nailingit — June 9, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Forum Login