Open forum, June 10-16



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A quick song to start the week.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There's an interesting opinion piece about trade and the WA ports, with the focus on Vancouver.

The article is from a fairly apolitical viewpoint - something to like/hate for all. He notes what we're doing with rail, but says more is needed. Also references bringing Tesoro in, noting much of our export shipping is geared to the Asian market (an indirect reference to the effort to stop the coal shipments?).

He notes restrictive policies on businesses, but doesn't specify. This is something I've been trying to figure out also - we keep hearing they exist, but other than a couple of sensible environmental ones, what are they?

He also references the plan to tax business in the pending state budget, calling it a bad idea. (I thought they were going to maintain taxes that were set to expire; not increase them?)

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger. It is my understanding that this state is considered very business friendly, ranking highly on one scale or another. I learned a long time ago that it seems easier to cry about all these bad regulations when you are a business. But they seem unable to point them out. Nothing wrong with environmental protection laws, without them, we would slash and burn our way through the state.

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Drift. We might not be first but we can't be viewed as business hostile with that rank.

Back to work for me....

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 7:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Courtney Sherwood's light rail article: good information based on data, not fear and misinformation.

Columbian: keep her close, even though she is freelance now. And thank you for keeping your photographers like Zachary Kaufman employed. :))))

Basement dwellers: I have a digital subscription to support responsible local journalism and hop you do, too, to keep the conversation interesting and ongoing in the anonymous Forum.

manthou — June 10, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:24 a.m

Yup! And I didn't even get a mention.

hawkeye — June 10, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye:You can join me on another planet if you wish.It does get lonely up here by myself.

timerick — June 10, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, anytime, my friend. Hey, I didn't see your truck the other morning, everything OK? They have started demo work on my building, I can't go in anymore without a hazmat suit. I'm working offsite but come by in the morning to check things out. So much fun.

hawkeye — June 10, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails @ 8:01 - I'm thinking getting the cat fixed is the solution.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Hawk we are fine.Have been using the truck to do some bidding.Which company is doing the haze mat work?I know a company that we do work for that do it all over the west coast.Big money they make.How come you weren't included in Holyc blast.Poor old Roger he is lame and Drift is up in the clouds.Hey Roger I got a email from a old friend I used to box with back in the 60s.You might know him.He was the Command Sgt.Major of the Army.Retired a few years ago.And he grew up here in Vancouver.Jack Tilly is his name.Very good guy.Went from almost nothing to the highest enlisted rank in the Army.

timerick — June 10, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Also Roger I told you about the paper my son wrote for his English class about military recruiters.His prof.wants him to publish the paper.I wish I knew how to send it to you.As a old Army guy you might find it interesting.

timerick — June 10, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, Nails... Cat fixings etc.

Bad boys! Bad!

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

New bridge? Yes. Light rail? Maybe. But not the planned combination that seems to be sprung on us. Sorry, HC, but a lil train to nowhere, heavy tolls, stupid design that does not do a thing for congestion, I think not.

Plus I take personal offense when the southern state tries to dictate to us.

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - I never met SMA Jack Tilley. His rep was good with the few Sergeants Major types I respected. I heard he started the American Freedom Foundation after retiring - an organization geared toward helping Vets find jobs, and helping disabled Vets and their families. Cool. A lot of the top leaders talk about caring for soldiers, but he seemed to be one of the few who actually meant it.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - I guess the flooding is pretty bad in eastern Germany along the Elbe, and also over in Poland. Hopefully none of your people are affected.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

on and on, seems like **your** m.o. HC. I really don't care if you leave me out, you mean nothing to me.

Timerick, its Keystone. They seem to be doing a good job.

hawkeye — June 10, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, HolyC is now a music critic - OK. Someone with a decent ear for the good stuff described his new fave's singing as the sound of sheep bleating, if I'm remembering correctly. I listened to bits of that long set - a very mediocre screamer in my book. Here - try someone who was actually good.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Or if you want a band that really had attitude -

roger — June 10, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, family is in southwestern part of Germany. Think Heidelberg, Black Forest, real good wine, beer, and food. They have flooding along the river and streets closed but nothing compared to the east.

Which reminds me, I made a regional specialty for dinner last night. Onion cake. Darn good if I may say so myself.

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not a big Beatles fan, but to say this guy has no talent --

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Luvithere - We used to drive over from Mannheim Kafertal to (I think) Schloss Heidelberg to fill our water jugs from the pipe out of the cliff side.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, you should have filled it from the big barrel instead....

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And, Mr. HC, please let me know of anyone from today that can hope to touch these two. (Starting with one of those insignificant Beatles songs, by the way.)

roger — June 10, 2013 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, HC - That's a ripoff of someone who did it a lot better about 45 years ago.

roger — June 10, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 10, 2013 at 7:27 p.m

IMO, you win!

As for the Beatles, probably the most inventive group of their time.

Beth sounds like a cross between Ertha Kitt and Natalie Merchant, with a big tramp-stamp, and not in a good way.

hawkeye — June 10, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The cat used to just love Lady Gaga. What happened?

I was always a big fan of John Fogerty's music :)

luvithere — June 10, 2013 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Poor old Roger he is lame and Drift is up in the clouds."

You got my curiosity going, time, so I went back and read some crap. What he actually wrote was:

"Drift? He is gone upstairs."

And the fact is, I *am* upstairs. That's where the keyboard is. I'm thinking I'll make it an early evening, this - go downstairs, climb in the rack and read on my current book.

Did you know chocolate is like dope, nail? Yeah, I've read studies, man. I'm going to read and go on a chocolate (Hershey's bricks) binge. Hopefully I'll not awake with a hangover. Chocolate can be tricky. You want to go right to the edge, but not O.D. Professional, closed course, and all'a that.

-Off to push the down button on the lift-

Drift — June 10, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If I ever listen to that band again, **I'M** gonna to have a death wish. (At least they picked a name that makes sense).

If they're still around, drop 'em into Afghanistan and let 'em loose on the Taliban, like they did with Noriega. That oughta get that war wrapped up real quick.

kn_dalai — June 10, 2013 at 10:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC deserves a point or two for Beth Hart. First time I've ever given him credit for anything. She's got a good voice, knows how to use it, and is a fine performer. BUTT she really needs to wear some pants that don't keep falling down. What. She's tryin' to be Hoss Cartwright?

kn_dalai — June 10, 2013 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — June 10, 2013 at 8:28 p.m.

I had to reread your post. At first I thought their was some, like, chocolate based dope out I didn't know about, like Choco-Bud or something. It sounds like friendly Mexican Dope essay!

Then I understood. Those little bricks. Each one filled with goodness. Each one brimming with life.

When I have em' I like to keep them in the freezer.

A great add to hot cocoa.

I like em' my chocolate hot, cut n' shaved.

nailingit — June 10, 2013 at 10:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 10, 2013 at 8:46 a.m.

Agreed. Solid article with good info.

Great to see you post!

nailingit — June 10, 2013 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Of Stray Cats, Great Dope, and Incredible Music.

I can only think the ridiculous post about the Beatles being a girly band or something was meant as a total troll.

Imagine wasn't even a Beatles song per say. Magical Mystery Tour is one of my favorite Beatle albums. It has a tune called 'The Fool On The Hill'. Appropriate.

In just a few short years The Beatles impacted music like nobody before. Compositionally, musically, working in the abstract like few had ever attempted. Pushing the limits with everything they did.

Another venue I respect Paul McCartney for, single handedly imported several thousands of hits of Owsley Acid to the Monterey Pop happening, The Holy Grail of LSD (John was promised a lifetime supply from Owsley himself so I've read) turning Hendrix and others on, opening the gates to history. They were all about freedom and expression. Paul George and John had more talent in their fingernails than millions will see in a lifetime.

A lot of their early stuff is too Pop for me, (although fun) but the content is solid and enduring.

I've been around a few musicians in my life, as well as living with myself. The one constant with all is a healthy respect for what these great musician/songwriter/genius folks have done, regardless of genre preference. (asterisk for Ringo, but it was meant to be.)

Had to say something. I can't remember the Beatles ever being denigrated before.

nailingit — June 10, 2013 at 11:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There's only one Janis. One Grace. One Aguilera for that matter. Although not my favorite kind of music, she's got pipes from hell that are unmatched in my opinion.

Here's a gal I dig. A lotta fun. Plays every instrument in the world, great voice, model looks, energy that doesn't quit...

...I fall in love too easily.

But fall in love I do.

nailingit — June 10, 2013 at 11:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just because.

nailingit — June 11, 2013 at 12:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not to be a forum vid hog, but had to get my babe in here.

She's also a DoDDS kid. And yeah, that makes her special!

nailingit — June 11, 2013 at 12:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


L7 is long gone, so no worries. They were an old LA punk band that shifted to the early metal scene - I saw them in their heyday in the late '80s backing someone else up (may Red Hot Chili Peppers?). The girls had attitude - were something of cult figures with the early metal crowd as the only girl band that could hang with the boys. (Heart was considered too mainstream.) They - like many - were casualties of the grunge scene.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 5:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And then there was TLC and Lisa left eye. It would have been great to see what she might have become.

Nail, as for the fab four, every time they came out with an album, they blew me away (and everybody else) on what they had done. They pushed the envelope further and further every time. They made more strides in music than any other group in that era. To deny that is beyond belief.

hawkeye — June 11, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A last on L7 (maybe) - They played with Joan Jett at an abortion rights benefit back in the early '90s - Did a very hard remake of the old Runaways tune "Cherry Bomb" - unfortunately, the only video I can find of the show sucks.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - I thought of posting (again) that clip of Aguilera doing "Live With Me" with Jagger - The girl definitely smoked that tune!

roger — June 11, 2013 at 6:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - My "low stress retired guy" job is working for Army Recruiting. So your son's paper would be an interesting read. But what's the topic covered? If something along how they target possible recruits or market the brand, I'm not involved with any of that (I work the logistics arena these days). But if you're looking for a professional critique, I know they local guy who can give you this. Me - I still tell the recruiters that mine lied to me way back when, and that many of the current crowd probably do the same.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Can this happen in WA State? ALEC claims its communication with WI legislators is private, not public record.

Yikes: [link text][1]


manthou — June 11, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger the paper is about the way the recruiters use different ways to get our young people to enlist.The truth is not what is sold to these kids.

timerick — June 11, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The only lie told me was I had to have a GED. I drove over to San Diego to take it, spending the night in the car.

There were a slug of drop-outs in boot camp.

They said they'd feed me and give me a rack to sleep in. They did.

Drift — June 11, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — June 11, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

Well, you've hit the bottom alright.

hawkeye — June 11, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is the recall campaign going anywhere? I've yet to see anyone gathering petitions, and the clamoring for this has dropped off tremendously.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 11, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

If the concealment of behind the scenes bargaining between interest groups and our elected legislators was an uncommon occurrence, I'd say this issue of trying to keep e-mails between ALEC and the WI politicians they're working with private would be a matter of great concern.

Unfortunately, the only reason this even gets a mention is because ALEC is involved, and they're the newest "love to hate" group.

Kindly check the link to Kate Martin's application for funding and political support from Planned Parenthood in her upcoming Seattle Mayor race. They supported some of our local Dems in the 2012 elections; should they be required to free the applications for support from these people up to our friends at Clark County Conservative? I suspect they would have a field day with this.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Timerick - How about guaranteed health care for life, for retirees and their spouses? How many heard this from a recruiter? That hasn't been true since they changed the enlistment contract in 1954. But it wasn't until TRICARE was implemented in 1994 that we started hearing of this.

I'd recommend he verify his information (if he hasn't done so already). I don't think there's a lot of out and out lying going on - there are too many checks and balances in the enlistment process these days, and the internet makes it easy enough to track down something that sounds fishy. I'd say that the so-called error of omission is where many of the problems probably lie - young Bubba doesn't know enough to ask the right questions, and Sarge isn't going to volunteer info unnecessarily. One of my favorite examples from recent years was enlisting kids off the streets to the Special Forces enlistment option. If you wash out you revert to an 11B infantryman - it's required to tell them this. Now, the SF Qualification Course had a pretty high washout rate for experienced sergeants - How are these kids supposed to succeed? Well, there's a train up course, and then the SF Assessment Course - and that's after your basic infantryman training and airborne school - plenty of time to learn. In actuality, these kids that do make it to the Qual course do about as well as that sergeant with a few years of service. HOWEVER, what recruiters fail to note (ignorance?) is that many will be weeded out in the first "catch up" course, and about half of an average SF Assessment group washes out - Statistically, the bigger challenge lies in just getting into the Qual course - not graduating from it.

But to lay these kinds of details out is considered negative thinking - something that recruiters can't have. Accentuate the positive.

And in closing - You have a greater chance of being screwed by your war hawk Congressmen and the political generals than by a recruiter. But that's a whole different topic.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The collection program, officials said, began in 2006. Several lawmakers have warned cryptically that its details, if revealed, would alarm Americans. But the program's classified nature, they said, prevented public debate."

Quote concerns that Federal SECRET Court. Makes my blood boil. We're so far past way beyond BIG BROTHER we couldn't get a flight back to just BIG BROTHER. This country-per some analysis, study, whatever-placed near the bottom, actually at the bottom, at how "free" we citizens really were. Home of the free-joke one. Home of the brave-joke two. Gag.

Corporate logos now on the NBA hardwood? No connection? Monitors in stores encouraging folks to buy Chinese imported crap? No connection? A totally, non-productive economy formed around the providing of imported goods and services of the many to the few-damn near feudal. As the race to the bottom speeds up, it looks like we're losing-or winning. Just depends on which side you're betting (and winning) on.

mrd — June 11, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, here go our taxes...... UP

hawkeye — June 11, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A very different version - By Fat Freddy's Cat.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, From the quotes in the article, none of them sound optimistic that this will accomplish anything. Kind of scary - you'd expect the proponents of a plan to try to sell it with a positive spin. At least Jim Moeller promises us the moon if we'll build the CRC.

roger — June 11, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I didn't see in the article how much time they are going to give this give away before they assess what kind of results they may get.I just don't see it working very well.Unless they have some company already lined up.But I haven't heard of any recently other than what the port is doing or trying to do.

timerick — June 11, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, so here it is.... They (M&M;) are going to give away permits that are going to cost us millions, and then there is going to be two more Commissioners that's going to cost us a couple hundred thousand and then there is the "free parks" that's going to cost us about three to four hundred thousand and all this is going to help bring in more jobs?

I suspect we'll go broke first.

hawkeye — June 11, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The sky is FALLING the sky is FALLING.. Geezzzz you people... I hope you are not the same people who drive while talking and texting or eating or putting make up on the way to work. I worry more about that $$h$$t than what these guys are doing.... Have any of you been to a county park lately. It's nice to see them full last week as I was at one on several occoassions. Wasn't that way last year... Sometimes what you folks Pen on here makes me wonder how much intinsic happenings are going on in Clark County...

vanwadreamer — June 12, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Meant to say nicely INTRINSIC people on here..

vanwadreamer — June 12, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Say what??

nailingit — June 12, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sad, sad day today, Evergreen metals and wood shop teacher Doug Rogers
passed yesterday.
You will be missed. Thank you for being such a excellent caring teacher. Thank you for being my son's teacher for 3 yrs and guiding him towards engineering.

ELISI — June 12, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone hear of "solutions-focused" journalism?

We are all tired of articles that stimulate unproductive b*tching or articles that promote divisiveness and black-and-white thinking, but here are examples that stimulate discussion of solutions:

[link text][1]



roger: I agree that ALEC is in the cross hairs now, but that ALL communication between legislators and PACs should be open and transparent, no matter what the political bent. This is a very strange time right now with government secrecy. It does not feel good to me and many others.

manthou — June 12, 2013 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Elisi Doug was a fine man.He worked for me 30 years ago before he went back to school to become a teacher.We became good friends over the years.He will be missed.

timerick — June 12, 2013 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Having said that, let's remember that 99% of the people live paycheck to paycheck if they have a job, finish the month with their credit card or some sort of government assistance so not to starve and/or have to choose between health insurance, medications or top ramen to feed their obese kids..*

Now there you go.. 99% live paycheck to paycheck is so far from the truth...Basil would probably have to say prove that one to me.

*Despite that, you saw the parks full of people today, but tomorrow, they will start deterioration from use and abuse. You will see more garbage, more wear an tear, more dog crap all over, more flies, more dirty diapers all over the place. For upkeep instead of being a mixed finance solution the money will have to come from somewhere.*

My question to you is why? I do agree with some of that statement. But the people that cause this filth are growing more and more and because why? Not because they are poor or rich either.. It's because they just plain lack respect for others property, they were raised in a fashion that help to produce this kind of living.

*These stooges are amateurs "faking" leadership and vision. They are clueless. If you have any sort of education and common sense you will see that the three stooges are the bottom of the barrel pick concerning excellence and know how.
I expect way more from people in positions of leadership. I don't like thieves or careless demagogues.*

I would agree with the disdain for leaders who lack leadership or outright lie or hide behind a false front. You only have to look at our current leadership in washington to see how true that is. Our current leadership is corrupt at best and at worst a total discrace. he just brought more dirty leadership from Chicago to the whitehouse.

It didn't take long after Obama was elected to see that his vision was one of divisiveness. Lets give these guys a little time and see what direction the county starts moving towards. They do come up for re-election and unlike our last presidential election we shouldn't make the same mistake twice by keeping what we have... Fool me once shame on you-fool me twice shame on me...

vanwadreamer — June 12, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — June 12, 2013 at 2:03 p.m.

The direction they are heading in is bankruptcy. How is the County going to pay for all these give away programs Madore wants to put into place? I know, just kick up our property taxes a few more points, that should do it, don't you think? Oh and leave Obama out of it, (that's another discussion) we are talking about the County, not the Country.

hawkeye — June 12, 2013 at 2:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A couple of posters on the face book side had I think better ideas.Instead of waiving fees,make getting permits eaiser.The red tape that builders or anyone wanting to make improvements or build a building have to go through can discourage people from moving forward on projects.I wonder where M&M; are going to get the money to cover the costs of all the county engineers and inspectors.

timerick — June 12, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If we're going to be upset about the $5-6 million gamble County is planning, then what about the deal the State and Vancouver were offering Nike? Over $32 million in various tax incentives and other funding, to include up to $14 million from Vancouver. And they were willing to go even further, considering buying the old HP/SEH campus (around $50 million), at taxpayer expense, to lease (at favorable rates) to Nike.

And then we've got Vancouver City Council and every business related lobby in the County pushing for the CRC - a project that it's estimated will take $50 million or more per year just in tolling from our economy. And the benefits they say this will bring are in a very grandiose Economic Benefits Analysis that claims billions in economic growth, but gives no substantiating data other than for the Ports of Portland and Seattle. And this report blithely passes over the impact on businesses currently on the LRT corridor.

Or maybe we should mention previous attempts. The County built the fairgrounds amphitheater, and we were going to make all kinds of money holding big time outdoor concerts. Loser. The City bought a parking garage. Loser. At least we got out of those deals - I guess it's a bit harder to dump a hotel/convention center that's also a loser - to the tune of $2 million last year.

I'm not saying we shouldn't demand more details - especially like just who these businesses are that are going to set up shop and make up the $5-6 million this will cause in lost revenues. But to go berserk over this deal, considering all the other losing ones that have been made -- I think if it wasn't the M&Ms; behind it, we just might not be so averse to the plan.

roger — June 12, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 12, 2013 at 5:23 p.m

There's a BIG difference between the Nike deal and whatever "this" is.

The Nike deal was a for a solid plan, it would have been an actual money making proposition. The fee deal is just another Madore crap shoot. Who knows if it will bring in anything but we know it's going to cost.

hawkeye — June 12, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nike would have set up shop here; the jobs were already filled. And with all the long term tax breaks, the main benefactors would have been (once again) the residential developers. However, their presence on the far east side of town would have thrown a lot of weight behind my ongoing argument here - quit throwing all that money into rehabbing the old downtown - accept that the City has moved east. But I'm also thinking a lot of them would want to have homes up the 5-acre lot corridor around Hockinson and on into the eastern area behind Battle Ground. And then that expressway down that corridor that SW WA RTC has in their 2030 plan gets built. End result would be a lot more of our rural living would disappear.

roger — June 13, 2013 at 5:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

But my real point (too easy to sidetrack in the early a.m. - coffee needs to kick in) is that we've taken numerous gambles in an attempt to attract businesses. Some have worked for the short term, but when it's time to downsize, our area is usually on the chopping block. (HP, for example.) If you go read the CREDC website, they talk about trying to ease environmental restrictions dealing with waste water - A thought process which has the County in major trouble right now with the Feds. How about Henry's wanting to build a new supermarket up the Hwy 99 corridor, until they found they would get stuck with a million dollar bill for road upgrades?

I don't know what the answer is - maybe this latest scheme of the M&M; boys will work and maybe it won't. But the end result can't be any worse than what all those others I mentioned in my earlier post have gotten us into. And at least their plan has a "fail safe" measure built in - they can cancel at any time with a Board vote if it isn't working as intended.

roger — June 13, 2013 at 5:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"they can cancel at any time with a Board vote if it isn't working as intended"

Problem! That would mean that Madore would have to admit he was (wait for it) WRONG!!! I'm not sure his ego would allow that. In the mean time, we could be losing hundreds of thousands of dollars with no guarantee of any return. It scares me a little that these guys are playing Monopoly with our County.

hawkeye — June 13, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And now you've got me going full circle to my argument of two days ago - That from the comments cited in the news article, they aren't overly optimistic this will work. It seems to be more a matter of having to do something (what the boys ran on), so they're going with the old argument that business taxes are too high and discourage start ups. The way this was presented, Madore has already admitted he might be wrong in advance.

And again - I'd rather we risk being wrong to the tune of a few millions, than the few billions a few others are betting on with the CRC.

roger — June 13, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

There’s a former 16 years long Clark County Commisssioner , who moved out of the area years ago. Before becoming a county commissioner, he had been a captain in the fire department. So I’m guessing that he had been in the government sector all his life, up until he retired as a commisioner. From what little I knew of him, he struck me as thoughtful and serious. Anyway. The Columbian did one, maybe two, interviews with him after he left office 15 years ago. He did some consulting work in the private sector for real estate development; obstensibly over his knowledge of the permitting hurdles involved in the process, and then had plans to go out on his own. In one case, he said that he hadn’t realized how fast the private sector could move, and in another he stated -- when he was a commissioner -- he didn’t know anything. He received some critisim for that, but I think he just meant that having spent a lifetime in government, he was seeing things from a new perspective. Refreshingly honest as far as I’m concerned.

Now there’s Madore coming into government from the private sector. I think that Madore is well aware of the beauracracy he’s gotten himself involved in, and for better or worse, is trying to streamline the thing in ways that others don’t like at all, no doubt with good reason, but this is what change looks like. The old guard is gettin’ the heave ho. As I’ve seen posted on FB by others; interesting how those of a certain political stripe have so oftened liked to characterize themselves as wanting change, while ridiculing others for being adverse to change. Here’s the thing in reverse folks. BTW, once again, some of these definitions that are sometimes used to describe Libs and Conservs, just don’t hold water. Like saying that Libs want change and Conservs want the same ole same ole. Sometimes yes, but too many holes to make that a good way of looking at things.

kn_dalai — June 13, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How would you all feel if your doctor were to make treatment decisions based on a "hunch" or "experiment?"

Good policy decisions and the best laws are passed after an unbiased review of data and research. If you don't have the data yet, then proceed with extreme caution, because you do not have a reliable map from which to navigate. If you are gambling with the public funds, you will likely receive zealous blow-back.

I am all for leaner government. I cringe often when I see some of the ridiculous new laws mucking up our free lives that come out of Olympia and Clark County and Vancouver.

BOCC might as well get a couple of dice and a box of goat guts to inform them.

manthou — June 13, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*no doubt with good reason, but this is what change looks like.*

No doubt with good reason--yeah-right. So this is freedom? :) No. This isn't what change looks like, at least not the kind of change your revered forefathers had in mind. Subverting established process to further an ideological change pushing conservative ideology. Man, it's always the ends justify the means with so many.

And slapping on your 'they do it" label for justification and to blur the lines. .... ... .. .

Some folks idea of "change" is to take back us to the 1950's. The argument for justifying change, just for the sake of change, is lunacy.

A few examples. Please review some of this "good reason" change the GOP is bringing to the table. Look at Choice, Immigration, Voting Rights, Gender Equal rights, just to name a few.

People please don't buy in to this 'apathy' on the right when it comes to honest and open government (when it pleases the right) both local and national.

**Faith And Freedom Coalition 2013: GOP Leaders Court Religious Conservatives At Conference**

**Trent Franks’s abortion claim and the manly Republican Party**

**Support lawmakers' effort to end secret meetings**;=article&id;=151:april-support-lawmakers-effort-to-end-secret-meetings&catid;=34:monthly-columns&Itemid;=74

nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 13, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.

Hopefully we'll remain a sunshine state. I appreciate your posts regarding transparency in government.

*Leaner*, many times translates into *meaner* unfortunately.

I heard a pundit earlier (a Republican) speaking to the outrageous laws being passed in different conservative states concerning Choice. He felt this is an acting out of the seventy and eighties religious conservative movement not getting their way with prayer and abortion. Pretty spot on.

The two main items he pointed to were School prayer laws enacted in the 60's, and Roe v Wade.

This is like the candles last flicker. Religious conservatives have supported the last three presidents based on these items.

And now these issues are going completely off the table and it's driving conservatives nuts.

They will subvert process in a dying effort to save these ideological driven items. But die they will.

nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And Rubio is touted as the Republican future. Heh. They-just-don't-get it.

**Rubio: If same-sex marriage provision is in Senate immigration bill, 'I'm gone'**

Read more:
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Fortunately, we get it. On the heels of a dominate Presidential victory (to include Obama being the first president to crack 51 percent ceiling pop vote two elections in a row since Dwight Eisenhower) for Dems, 2016 is already shaping up for historic numbers. Let's ramp it up in 14'.

**Congress sinks to new low**

By Justin Sink - **06/13/13** 11:07 AM ET

Confidence in Congress is down to just **10** percent, the worst showing for any societal institution in the history of the Gallup poll.

The confidence that people have in Congress has dropped three percentage points from last year, and the legislative body has ranked as the least trusted societal institution for the fourth consecutive year in the Gallup poll. 

Read more:
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nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — June 13, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

I have no problem with them tweaking the system a little. How about lowering the price a little and streamlining the process. From what I have heard and experienced, the permitting process it extremely complicated and expensive. To me, it would be smarter to read the list of main complaints and go after it that way.

hawkeye — June 13, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The permit process in Clark Co is, from my experience, a farce. When building my house, I got a call from the builder informing me they had pulled it from the approval process. No legal description the county had told him. I went down to the building dept and asked what I needed to do. Get a legal description, I was told. "where", I asked. "Auditor's office", I was told. "Where's that", I asked. I was told it was upstairs on the 2nd flr.
The gal printed out the legal description. I looked at it and told her it was wrong-the description she gave me was for a property that had 6 corners-mine is a perfect rectangle. I got a deer in the headlights look. She just printed them, she said, but couldn't read them.
On the way out, I stopped in the copy room to get a copy of the plot plan for the septic guy. As I was relaying my tale of woe to the older woman that worked there, she said if I didn't tell anyone, she'd print out my legal description and did. When I asked her why she wasn't out there doing things the others couldn't, she smiled and said "I've worked here for many years and I like it here just fine".
Most of the comments from general contractors and developers I read expressed concern for the process of obtaining permits and stated the cost of permits was not a roadblock to construction, just time. So now, with less money to work with, M&M; think the main issues of contractors and developers will be addressed? And having done so against the concerns of those folks in the trenches with this stuff? Total BS, the circus must go. Where's the recall petitions?

mrd — June 13, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - As I recall, the main complaint was that the process took too long because there were so many steps, and because of the fees. There was an article in The C about a year ago that mentioned Portland had implemented an accelerated process - New businesses there could be breaking ground inside of 6 months, while we were taking 18 months or more. The environmental regs are described as a royal pain (by the developers), and CREDC had as part of their 2013 legislative agenda to lobby to allow modifying these based on some sort of cost benefit analysis. But I seem to recall we're already in deep kimchi over trying something like this already, so....

Hmmm - As a side note, M&M; stopped the CREDC's funding a couple of months back due to their supporting the CRC. We kept getting denials about this - they weren't actively supporting the CRC; they were just sitting on groups that did so. Their first bullet under Transportation? "Support funding for the Columbia River Crossing (I-5 Bridge) project." However, at least they recognize that State law certainly appears to require a public vote on these transportation projects.

roger — June 13, 2013 at 6:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Required reading for leaders when Colin Powell was CSA.

Lesson 15 and his P = 40 to 70 is critical; P is the probability of success. Once you acquire enough info and can reasonably predict success in that range, go with your gut. To many projects (military and business) fail because of wanting success guaranteed.

roger — June 13, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 10:54 a.m.

"Obama being the first president to crack 51 percent ceiling pop vote two elections in a row since Dwight Eisenhower) "

Nixon, Reagan and Clinton had strong third party candidates, Obama dd not, so your point is, as most of your points, rather pointless.

frobert — June 13, 2013 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — June 13, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

Your pointless post about pointed posts are not only pointless, but pointed in the pointless effort of the Libertarian Party.

Obama do *dd* not, so your troll, as most of your trolls, well, rather mindless.

How's Gen?

nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 13, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.


Must be liberal "logic".

frobert — June 13, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There's an AP article at the bottom of pg 3 in today's hard copy of The Columbian that ought to be pg 1 news. It presents an analysis of the impact of the cost of the Affordable Health Care Act on the pocketbook of our working poor - those earning in the low $20,000s per year.

For example, an employer can meet the requirement of the law by offering a plan to an employee making $21,000 which will cost that person premiums of $1995 per year (9.5% of their income) - in itself unaffordable to many. Then, most of these "low cost" plans have high deductibles - easily $3000 per year. Further, that person will not be eligible for expanded Medicaid coverage, which has a cutoff at $15,900. Solution? Refuse to take the coverage and pay the penalty at tax time instead. (Or more accurately, "accept" the penalty and don't pay it - it will probably be years before the IRS tried to figure out how to actually collect.) And that hospital emergency room will still be there - I suspect they won't all start turning uninsured people away.

Remember a Speaker saying we'll have to pass the bill to find out what's in it? Well, we're still finding out, but so far it's not looking very "affordable." But what else could we expect when Speaker Pelosi's Congress allowed the Health Care lobbyists to write their bill?

The only acceptable alternative to our current system would have been a universal coverage - "Medicare For All." When the then majority party veered from that path, they sold out the very people who need (and deserve?) their help the most - our working poor.

roger — June 14, 2013 at 5:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A recent article in Forbes, where the writer did an analysis of recent claims out of Calif that costs for premiums were "surprisingly low" today. His look shows that premiums are actually much higher than in the past - especially with the younger workers who have little need for the insurance and who can least afford the increases.

roger — June 14, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:21 PM: Excellent presentation you posted! Problem is: the Clark County commissioners did not even consider statistical probabilities. None can hold a candle to leaders like Colin Powell. :)

Nate Silver has popularized Bayesian analysis for predicting outcomes. It has been around since the 1700's and has informed government and military decisions, as you point out.

Sorry, I just don't give these goobers at Clark County much credit for knowing what Bayesian analysis is or for using it appropriately, as Colin Powell and his leader colleagues did. If you ever have listened to their Wednesday meetings (audio only for about 2 grueling hours), you will see how much they fly by the seat of their collective britches. No wonder Bronson Potter wants to be rid of the legal risks this behavior creates.

I guess you could argue that the CRC is a big experiment, too. Does it have a 51% chance of success? Many folks don't want to gamble their tax dollars on those odds, either.

I think Madore's "jobs" plan via TIF fee removal has poor odds, too. :)

manthou — June 14, 2013 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

..and now you know..

..the rest of the story.

**Arizona Medicaid Expansion Advances After Jan Brewer Forces Lawmakers' Hands**

Arizona will expand Medicaid to cover nearly 300,000 poor residents next year after a bipartisan coalition passed a measure backed by Gov. Jan Brewer (R) through the state legislature on Thursday.

Brewer, a conservative and avowed foe of President Barack Obama's health care reform law, announced her support for the Medicaid expansion in January, but faced stiff resistance from fellow Republicans in Arizona's House and Senate. During a marathon session that began Wednesday afternoon and stretched into the wee hours of Thursday morning before culminating in a final vote late Thursday afternoon, a handful of Republicans joined Democrats in the House and Senate to pass the Medicaid expansion.


The Arizona governor aggressively promoted the Medicaid expansion since taking her surprising public stand earlier this year. Brewer assembled a coalition of health care interests and business groups and worked alongside Democratic legislators in addition to campaigning across the state in service of extending health coverage to hundreds of thousands of poor Arizonans using Obamacare funding.

Read more @

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, the Washington State legislature solved the looming Estate Tax refund debacle at the 11th hour last night. Had they not done this, millions of our tax dollars would have gone out today to a very few wealthy estates in the form of a fat refund check.

They CAN get something done when they put their minds to it.

[link text][1]

Read a quick summary from The Stranger at the link above.


manthou — June 14, 2013 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: You are my information on national news. Who needs to peruse the headlines when we have our own headline feed right here? :)

Glad to see someone like Jan Brewer working collaboratively. Maybe she will inspire a trend?

manthou — June 14, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Maybe she will inspire a trend?

manthou — June 14, 2013 at 8:44 a.m.

I hope so manthou, but seriously doubt it. Too many Red States are willing to let the poor suffer and their costs rise, rather than implement the *dreaded* ObamaCare.

Jan Brewer-Scorpion to Dragonfly. Who woulda thought?

300,000 thousand who will no longer burden Arizona's emergency rooms. The cost savings with that alone will be huge.

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 10:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift/others-Great social commentary on Pot.

1 of 2

**Economic incentive to legalize weed and the failure of the War on Drugs have produced a sea change in America that's here to stay**

June 10, 2013 6:00 AM ET

It's a brave new pothead world. Until fairly recently, even a year ago, I would not have guessed that we would be at the place we are now – with 18 states legalizing medical marijuana and, according to one recent poll, a whopping 85 percent of the nation supporting medical use. For all our political rancor, it turns out, what ultimately unites us is pot. Weed is one of the few things that both hillbillies and hippies like. Rappers smoke pot, and country artists smoke pot. There's just as much pot on Willie Nelson's tour bus as there is on Snoop Dogg's tour bus. Marijuana is bridging the red and blue divide and becoming a purple issue.

For those who worry that we will become a nation that sits on the couch eating Cheetos all day, relax. Smoking pot does not equal laziness. Weed was something I could always justify because it excited my brain. Some people it puts to sleep, others it turns paranoid. Some it makes creative, and we're the lucky ones, because if it has done any damage to us, at least we have a receipt. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from pot. Including smoke more pot.

Legalization is another one of those issues, like gay marriage, that drives the Tea Bag people crazy. That Leave It to Beaver black-and-white 1950s image that Mitt Romney fit into so well is going away, and one big reason is marijuana. Bill Clinton once said, "If you look back on the Sixties and think there was more good than harm, you're probably a Democrat. If you think there was more harm than good, you're probably a Republican." Well, for those people who loved the Fifties, pot played a huge role in the cultural revolution that they detest.

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Republicans have always been an uneasy alliance of Jesus freaks, gun nuts, generic obese suburbanites and the super-rich, but what binds them is this idea that life was perfect in Appleton, Wisconsin, in 1958. As soon as President Obama was elected, this visual of a black guy who liked smoking pot walking into the White House was too much. Whenever you hear them say, "I want my country back" – from what? Did Blackmanistan invade us? They may want it back, but that America is gone forever.

Of course, there's a big economic incentive to legalizing marijuana. More than a decade ago, there was a county in Georgia where the people fired the sheriff because he was busting pot farmers. The crop was their lifeblood, so they got rid of the hardass and elected a sheriff who pledged to look the other way. That's the kind of sea change that's happening in America right now. If 40 years of abject failure of the War on Drugs has taught us anything, it's that the customer base is large, strong and loyal. So as in everything, money talks. And money is there to be made. There's no going back. We've reached the tipping point, legal marijuana is here to stay – it's just a matter of how fast it will happen across the country.

Read more:
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.

As usual Maher spouts off without the slightest clue. The Tea Party as a whole has not taken a stand against marijuana or gay marriage, this is just democrat propaganda.

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Q: What do you get when you offer a Liberal a penny for his thoughts?
A: Change.

Q: Did you hear about the new liberal agenda.
A: They got two hands in your front pocket and two in you back pockets.

And my favorite:

Q: What do you call a basement full of Liberals?
A: A whine cellar.

kn_dalai — June 14, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*As usual Maher spouts off without the slightest clue.*

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

Bill Maher is a self professed Libertarian.

*As usual **Maher** spouts off without the slightest clue.*

Substitute **frobert** for Maher and we're good.

*The Tea Party as a whole has not taken a stand* ...

Interesting. And just how did you gauge this? What is the *Tea Party as a whole*?

How did you measure this? Where is your data?

At least you have your own Henny Youngman in the wings bringing cheer as usual. :)


nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.

I am claiming that something didn't happen, the burden of proof is not mine. If you are disagreeing with me then the burden of proof falls to you, please provide your proof that the Tea Party is against marijuana and gay marriage.

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A guy is visiting San Francisco, and walks into a small store in Chinatown.

He notices a small bronze statue of a rat.

He asks the owner "how much", and the owner replies "$50 for the bronze rat, and $1000 for the story behind it."

The guy says, "forget the story", and buys the rat.

As he's walking down the street he notices two live rats following him. As he continues to walk, more rats start following him.

He starts to get a little concerned, and heads for the waterfront. By the time he gets there there are thousands and thousands of rats following him.

He walks up to the end of the pier and throws the bronze rat into the bay, and the rats all follow and leap off of the pier and drown.

The guy rushes back to the store and walks in. The owner says, "Ah!, so your back for the story".

The guys says, "No, I was wondering if you have any bronze liberals?"

kn_dalai — June 14, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- Just had to say, I think with your help we have nailed your comprehension issues.

Maher: Legalization is another one of those issues, like gay marriage, that drives the Tea Bag people crazy.

In your world this equals>>>

*The Tea Party as a whole has not taken a stand against marijuana or gay marriage, this is just democrat propaganda.*

Maybe we should start here. This might involve getting into your first childhood memories via transgressional therapy.

Did you ever sit on Ike's lap? (you don't have to answer if the question makes you uncomfortable)

Has your home ever been invaded/violated by Blackmanistan?

In good conscience, will you really use your letters containing snapshots of yourself to Randy Paul as a tax write off?

If so, how do you justify this?

If not, why not?

Do you believe the rumors which say Ron Paul passed away seven years ago, and is nothing but a mummified puppet whose strings are being pulled by Charlie Koch?

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

How long has it been since you had a CT scan or psychological evaluation? I believe you are overdue.

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.

Write Bill Maher as part of your therapy. It's his assertion you're disputing. Yet you have no facts to back your criticism. SSDD.

Not one of your fallacies here. (back to your comprehension issues)

Just backing out and pointing a finger.

I just cut & paste Maher's column. You took issue. Again...please tell us why? What did you base, *The Tea Party as a whole has not taken a stand against marijuana or gay marriage* on?




You're the only one who enjoys dealing with frotroll!

Keep him occupied and I promise to source Democracy Now and paste environmental stuff!


nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 5:33 p.m.

You really need to read up on logical fallacies, questioning one's facts is not a logical fallacy. When you re-post someone else's material, the burden of proof falls to you.

The Tea Party in general avoids social issues, although a few of the groups do not adhere to that policy.

frobert — June 14, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*questioning one's facts is not a logical fallacy*

For Christ's sake who said it was?

Relax. Try to get deep into thought...on second thought, let's try something obtainable.

Close your eyes.

(I think I touched a nerve mentioning a possible invasion by Blackmanistan.)

What happened in jail? (brevity is welcomed)

Do you feel comfortable around black people?

Have you ever been around black people? (outside of possible confinement)

Do avatars of a screaming black man trouble you? If so, why? More so than a screaming white man? If not why? And why not if so.

Many accuse the Paulbots of being racist. I disagree.

Then again sometimes not.

I think of the early Paul letters with racist references. Unfortunately, they encourage weak minds. Then top it of with some communist Ayn Rand stuff--it's no wonder more folks aren't screwed up.

So, anything on the tube tonight?

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***Uh Drrrrrrrrrr***

Jeb Bush, a former governor of Florida, had a lot to say at Friday's Faith and Freedom Coalition conference. But the thing that has everyone talking: his description of immigrants as "more fertile" than native-born Americans.

Bush, a recurring potential candidate for president, is fluent in Spanish, married a Mexican-born woman and has a strong contingent of Hispanic support in Florida. When he said at the annual meeting in Washington, D.C., that immigrants are "more fertile," and so can replenish the country's population with young people, he likely misspoke, although it's true that immigrant women have a higher fertility rate than women born in the U.S.

hawkeye — June 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — June 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

I've had a little experience in this area. But I've never noticed different ... regions being more fertile than others.

Although..there was this girl from Columbia...but that's another story.

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Old Chinese funny.

Q: What do you get when rite rail tries to cross river?

A: Riberals speeding by in private car, admiring shiny new train.

kn_dalai — June 14, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I find the following quite humorous, but given a recent exchange I thought I'd toss it out here. Heh, heh...

Drift — June 14, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — June 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

Decreased birth rates, including lower fertility rates, in industrailized nations is nothing new. I'm not sure what your point is about J. Bush. The only reason the population is increasing in the U.S. is because of immigration. Also true of other industrialized countries.



kn_dalai — June 14, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — June 14, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.

nailingit — June 14, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Press Talk: It could have been us.

I have been spending a lot of time perusing Orenco Station lately, kicking the tires of potential homes, and noticed how close it is to the new Hillsboro Hops stadium, among other things. It is 20 some miles closer to our little beach retreat and hey, light rail is already there. If we want to take in Portland or a Blazer game, we can do so with easy access. And there is no contentious bridge to battle on a daily basis. If I want to head North to the Emerald City, I take the train.

Does it look like Orenco Station is worse-for-the-wear due to the "crime" train? Hardly. If I had one thing to say about it as a first impression, it would be this: it is a little too sanitized, pristine and standardized. It looks like a movie set to me. Pleasantville on steroids.

A Bend developer is breaking ground on 24 single-level homes across from Orenco New Seasons and 20 of them are reserved already. Perfect for couples easing into their golden years.

I worry that Clark County, not Vancouver, is the home of "NO." No tolls. No light rail. No new bridge. No taxes. No growth. No excitement. No fun. Vancouver is seeing some exciting new businesses and a healthy infusion of the youth and creative culture. Like a breath of fresh air.

We spend time in Orenco Station to see if it grows on us. We intend to go to the Hops games with the knowledge that we could have been walking there had Marc Boldt not been trying, in vain, to save his political career.

We still may be able to walk there if we get used to the pristine facades of homes, row houses, condos, shops and apartments that make up this overly-planned Hillsboro community, built around light rail access. And we will take our small business and tax payin' checkbook with us.

Not that I expect we will be missed, mind you. :)

manthou — June 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To clarify: while Vancouver is seeing an infusion of new businesses and youthful energy and creativity, it won't last if we don't get that new bridge and light rail.

manthou — June 15, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

I suppose you could be happy there if you don't mind paying the income taxes and living 2 inches from your neighbor. I guess if you are an apartment dweller up here, that wouldn't be much of a change. Myself, I don't enjoy baseball, or cattle cars or cramped little apartments so, good luck to you.

hawkeye — June 15, 2013 at 7:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawk at 7:18 am: Orenco Station is nicknamed "Rack 'em and Stack 'em" for good reason.

I know that many Clark County residents chose to live here because they can own acres of land and breathe fresh air.

I was raised in Chicago and am used to the regular rattle rumble of elevated trains and small urban lot sizes.

Its the air of perfection that rattles me most about Orenco Station. I like a little local color and grit in my neighborhood and enjoy that quality in abundance in downtown Vancouver. :)

There is a clash of cultures going on in Clark County, not unlike the war that was fought when the sourthern California folks discovered the Pacific Northwest in the early '80's.

manthou — June 15, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Per friends of mine who live in Hillsboro:

-- The Hillsboro PD leaves a lot to be desired.

-- Their property taxes aren't much different than ours are.

-- Traffic is getting worse all the time. Hwy 26 is a nightmare, and all the feeder routes are overcrowded. Fender benders are commonplace and delay the commute on a regular basis. (The I5 is a breeze compared to 26.) This has many people driving in on the surface streets to get to Portland. And Cornell Road - through the heart of Orenco Station - is one of those routes!

-- Their prediction is that The Hops will be a bust. None of them care any more about a single A baseball team than people here did.

-- None will use MAX. They don't see the benefit in fighting their way to one of the Park & Rides, then riding on a crowded train (the Blue line is the only one with a high ridership), and then having to walk a half mile to work (often through the rain). I guess sitting in your own car in traffic is preferable.

-- They all call us Vantucky - there's not much to do here.

-- They all think we should pay for the entire CRC project. It seems many (if not most) Oregonians don't see the "criticality" of the I5 bridge to interstate commerce; rather, they see the project as one driven by our being overcrowded - and they'd rather spend the money on their own highways.

roger — June 15, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye,thanks for the good laugh this morning.I never looked at fertility that way.My grand parents came here from Denmark in the early 1900's.Does that make me more or less fertile?

timerick — June 15, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — June 15, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.

I too have relatives from Denmark and Germany (Austria actually) and I don't know for sure about the fertility situation. My sister had 3 kids, my brother had two and my other brother had 5. I stuck with one, it was all I needed. In my mind, it's not a matter of fertility, I think it's more a matter of responsibility. If you are educated, you have as many as you decide you want and can afford, if you aren't so educated (or have a religious angle) you hump like dogs and let the chips fall where they may (surely God will provide). In my community, we have several religious groups that **have to** buy full sized vans for their families. I'm more of a realist.

hawkeye — June 15, 2013 at 11:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - If you mean the Nexus, that complex is more than a bit overpriced - It's pretty obvious their target is the Intel crowd - temporary digs for high salaried folks who aren't going to be there long, and not home much anyhow. But if you decide that's the place for you, I suggest you shell out the extra rent for a garage. Hillsboro has its fair share of property crime.

roger — June 15, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — June 15, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

I was just checking out Orenco Station on line, and can see the attraction it brings. We've been thinking about buying a smaller single story home in a few years, now that the kids are pretty much on their own.

We really missed an opportunity with the Bears. It seems as though this community is overtaken with a bunch of stingy ol' farts who could give a damn about the future of this community.

I agree with your comment about light rail. People, businesses will go elsewhere, and I can't blame them. I'm sure many have an opinion about people unwilling to invest in the community they live and thrive in. I know I do. :)

All of a sudden, progress is a negative with many. Has it always been like this?

This place is filled with Eeyores.

nailingit — June 15, 2013 at 11:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Maybe we'll be next door neighbors, happily trotting off to the Hillsboro Hops games, sipping a cool adult beverage beforehand at McMenamin's Imbrie House. :)

Eeyore is one way to describe it.

We have to invest in our communities or else they become unattractive to new business and residents with fresh ideas and energy.

I was reading the FB comments, never a wise idea on a Sunday morning, and noticed that the ONLY comments so far about our law enforcement ratio here are comments complaining about taxes being raised to support police.

Healthy, safe, thriving communities do not run on hot air.

BTW, Pahlisch Homes are breaking ground on the one-level bungalows. :)

manthou — June 16, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I appreciate your thoughts on Hillsboro. You sound a lot like my husband, which is a compliment, by the way. :)

manthou — June 16, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Happy Father's Day to all cellar Dads.
Manthou, we would miss you here. sure you want to move to Cookiecutter city?

luvithere — June 16, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I want my money back!

holycrapola — June 16, 2013 at 6:27 a.m.

And that would mean so much more to me if you actually lived in Vancouver.

hawkeye — June 16, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — June 16, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.

Thanks luvit!

manthou — June 16, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

I bet the ones who complain the most about taxes, are the first ones to criticize 1st responder response time.

The collective anti-progress mindset that posts on Face Book is unreal. I've lived here but a short time, yet seem to take much more pride in our community than many lifers.

Something I've instilled in my kids over the years; Don't piss in the pot you drink from.

Some of these farts need to look beyond themselves and accept change to better our community.

nailingit — June 16, 2013 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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