Open forum, Mar 4-10



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Compounded interest of a different sort...

I'm the first one to advocate for gay rights and strongly believe any type of discrimination should come to an end.

Having said that, this article provides a window into Priestly living and could explain why the church is clueless about abortion & contraception. {;O

**Former Dominican Friar On Vatican Gay Sex Scandal: Homosexuality A 'Ticking Time Bomb' (VIDEO)**

A former friar believes that homosexuality is a "ticking time bomb" for the Catholic Church.
Days before Pope Benedict XVI is officially set to resign from papal office, two bombshells rocked the Catholic Church.

First, On Feb. 21, an article published in Italy's La Repubblica newspaper alleged that Benedict was influenced to resign by an unsourced report claiming the Vatican has been influenced by multiple internal lobbys, including a gay one. The report also claimed members broke the Sixth Commandment, which is "linked in Catholic doctrine to the proscribing of homosexual acts," according to The Guardian.

Then, three days later, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, known for his anti-gay rhetoric, was accused of "inappropriate" behavior with other priests and offered his resignation.

Mark Dowd, an openly gay man and a former Dominican friar, spoke on Monday with CNN's Christiane Amanpour...

"Homosexuality is the ticking time bomb in the Catholic Church," Dowd said. "On the one hand, the Catholic Church teaches that the condition of same-sex attraction is 'intrinsically disordered' -- those are Ratzinger's own words from 1986. **And yet we know that actually about half, if not more, of all the people attracted into seminaries and the priesthood are gay themselves."**

**He added, "When you have this culture of secrecy and guilty and oppression, you have conditions there which foster the potential for blackmail and for manipulation."**

Dowd researched homosexuality in the Catholic Church as part of a U.K. special called "Queer and Catholic," for which he interviewed seminary rectors and leaders of the Church. These individuals claimed that possibly more than 50 percent of men in the religious order are homosexual. Dowd told CNN that "gay men are massively, massively overrepresented in Catholic life."

Via the Guardian:

*We interviewed two men from the English College in Rome who had fallen in love while training for the priesthood. In seminary they had tried to have open and frank discussions about homosexuality but were told by staff and many fellow students alike that this was not the done thing. In the TV interview, one of them reported on the fact that it was frequently the very men who were out and about in Rome engaging in casual sexual acquaintances in the Monte Capitolino, a nearby park, who were often the most vehemently homophobic in the seminars on sexual ethics.*

Read more @

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycat- Somehow the 10:30 posts are conjoined. :)))


**Fox News Interview Shows Mitt Romney Still Doesn’t Get Why He Lost**

Nearly four months after he blamed his loss on Obama’s ‘gifts’ to minorities, Romney returned for a Fox interview to prove he’s still clueless about why he came up empty on Election Day.

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL !! .....a..yeah LOL !!

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 12:18 p.m.

I don't know if I want to laugh or feel sorry...if you know what I mean. It's almost like we're reading script from a tragic comedy...and that doesn't even include the text or video links.

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Feels like the Twilight zone here. Everybody seems to have a conversation with themselves, going all over the place.
And what exactly are you laughing about, Elisi and GO? What I miss?

luvithere — March 4, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

golden, remember the movie.."The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes"??

I'm thinking along those lines..if you get what I mean..LOL

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 1:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 1:59 p.m.

I'm thinking more in the manner of Dumb and Dumber!

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — March 4, 2013 at 1:44 p.m.


goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, back about 45 years ago, I remember that my Dad used a cough syrup called Terpin Hydrate. He had a chronic cough and that's what his Doctor gave him. I remember because I hat tonsillitis as a young boy and he gave some of it to me. It almost knocked me down. It was made from turpentine and eucalyptus with a splash of codeine. I couldn't feel my throat for hours. Eventually the FDA took it off the market because they said it really didn't work. I swear, it was the nastiest stuff I have ever tasted.

hawkeye — March 4, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well kids, I'll try to check in from time to time, I'm off to "Sin City" until Thursday, gotta do a little work. Stay healthy everyone, see ya soon.

hawkeye — March 4, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

At some point we have to insist on a political candidate litmus test for discernible brain activity.

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL !!..... **;)**

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh yeah LOL!! indeed...

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 3:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't quite know why, but this seemed appropriate. :)

Craving attention isn't always a good thing. :))

Some just don't know when to quit! :)))

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not sure why anybody would ever want to reveal their family secrets on a forum. Must be a craving for attention.

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Conservatives love to save $$$ don't they.....

**Abstinence Education Reallocation Act Seeks $550 Million To Keep Teens From Having Sex**

How much could it cost to keep teenagers from having sex? More than $100 million per year over the course of five years would be a good starting place, according to a bill introduced last month by a bipartisan duo of congressmen.

The Abstinence Education Reallocation Act, brought forth by Reps. Randy Hultgren (R-Ill.) and Daniel Lipinski (D-Ill.) on Valentine's Day, seeks to award $550 million in Affordable Care Act grants over five years to programs that provide teenagers with abstinence-only education.

Read more @

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 4, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.

Vicks Formula 44 was bad enough for me. Have a safe trip.

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes! Yes! Simply illuminating!!

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 4, 2013 at 3:53 p.m.

So tell us how the liberals acquire funding for their green energy pet projects. And also, remind us how those green energy projects aren't funding someone who is intent on making a profit.

I remember someone who suggested recently that people need to be less dependent on the government in order to be a success yet you diss on the conservatives who want to cut benefits to the people who are dependent.

A double standard or just confused???

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*These guys are ridiculous.*

**House GOP Budget Bill Would Ease Sequestration For Defense, Law Enforcement, But Little Else**

WASHINGTON -- House Republicans are proposing a short-term budget that would ease the impact of sequestration on defense, veterans, immigration and law enforcement, while allowing the sequester's blunt cuts to hit elsewhere.

The military would not be protected from all sequestration's effects, but the new legislation would update the spending plans for the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs, giving priority to programs that are more important today than they were a year ago and thereby, presumably, doing less damage to national security.

The GOP proposal would also boost the budget for areas of the military not affected by the sequester and give the defense secretary greater leeway to shuffle funds among different programs. The military's operation-and-maintenance fund would increase by $10.4 billion above last year's level, for instance, while some lower-priority programs would be cut.

The bill contains additional funding as well to allow Customs and Border Protection and the FBI to avoid layoffs, and it requires Immigration and Customs Enforcement to maintain 34,000 detention beds for those suspected of being undocumented immigrants.

The burden of the sequester would not be eased on any other federal program -- not anti-poverty efforts, education funding, Medicare and more.

Read more @

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holyc, I appreciate you explaining your stance a bit further. At first, it was a bit confusing but now I see what you're getting at. Some believe our current leadership is already a dictatorship. I'm not one who believes that but the way things are going, you just might be on to something although from my perspective, I believe the people of our nation are the ones who will all hit rock bottom except for the wealthy. I don't believe it will be a dictatorship but we will be facing austerity issues if our leadership continues down the path of spending what we don't have to spend...and even the powers that be will not receive their paychecks.

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


to add -

History does in fact repeat itself and I am a firm believer that we're nearing that point again in time. Yes, looking back in history as I have in other posts (repeating myself most likely), I honestly see a major adjustment of society and I'm not speaking of the wealthy/middle/poor classes. I speak of those who have taken it upon themselves to learn the basics in order to get by versus those who haven't a clue. Those with an honest will to survive will find a way out of this mess and will do okay. Those who haven't a clue...the same ones you refer to as "fools" whose life revolves around reality shows and might I add social networking sites and junk food to the list...they're the ones who will be hit with a brick so to speak when the *you know what* hits the fan.

Regarding the junk food junkies...where it will hit them the most is in health care costs. Ohh, if they'd only know that what they're putting in their mouths will kick them in the back sides financially when it's time to pay up on health insurance deductibles when they go for their physicals...especially for the people who have neglected their health care. Same goes for those who utilize controlled substances (like cigs, alcohol, etc). And this Health Care Reform stuff...just wait. Dare to refuse to allow doctors to take a test or examine you for this or that, they'll find ways to charge you through the yin yang, should a certain condition arise and you didn't perform the necessary precautionary care. It'll be in the fine fine that most magnifying glasses won't help. Government manipulation and control??? Oh you bet your sweet back side! But that's okay...if it's not on a reality show or not on a social networking site, then it mustn't be true, right??? (last sentence to be taken as sarcasm)

goldenoldie — March 4, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This middle class segment that's cheering sequester/austerity-they haven't a clue.

Reminds me of the ol' "*Get yer goverment hands off my medycare.*"

**Recovery in U.S. Is Lifting Profits, but Not Adding Jobs**

With millions still out of work, companies face little pressure to raise salaries, while productivity gains allow them to increase sales without adding workers.

“So far in this recovery, corporations have captured an unusually high share of the income gains,” said Ethan Harris, co-head of global economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. “The U.S. corporate sector is in a lot better health than the overall economy. And until we get a full recovery in the labor market, this will persist.”

The result has been a golden age for corporate profits, especially among multinational giants that are also benefiting from faster growth in emerging economies like China and India.

These factors, along with the Federal Reserve’s efforts to keep interest rates ultralow and encourage investors to put more money into riskier assets, prompted traders to send the Dow past 14,000 to within 75 points of a record high last week.

While buoyant earnings are rewarded by investors and make American companies more competitive globally, they have not translated into additional jobs at home.

Other recent positive economic developments, like a healthier housing sector and growth in orders for machinery and some other durable goods, have also encouraged Wall Street but similarly failed to improve the employment picture. Unemployment, after steadily declining for three years, has been stuck at just below 8 percent since last September.

With $85 billion in automatic cuts taking effect between now and Sept. 30 as part of the so-called federal budget sequestration, some experts warn that economic growth will be reduced by at least half a percentage point. But although experts estimate that sequestration could cost the country about 700,000 jobs, Wall Street does not expect the cuts to substantially reduce corporate profits — or seriously threaten the recent rally in the stock markets.

“It’s minimal,” said Savita Subramanian, head of United States equity and quantitative strategy at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Over all, the sequester could reduce earnings at the biggest companies by just over 1 percent, she said, adding, “the market wants more austerity.”;

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Not Mother Teresa! Say it ain't so!!*

**Mother Teresa 'saint of the media', controversial study says**

LONDON: A study conducted by Canadian researchers has called Mother Teresa "anything but a saint", a creation of an orchestrated and effective media campaign who was generous with her prayers but miserly with her foundation's millions when it came to humanity's suffering.

The controversial study, to be published this month in the journal of studies in religion/sciences called Religieuses, says that Teresa — known across the world as the apostle of the dying and the downtrodden — actually felt it was beautiful to see the poor According to the study, the Vatican overlooked the crucial human side of Teresa — her dubious way of caring for the sick by glorifying their suffering instead of relieving it.

Instead, the Vatican went ahead with her beatification followed by canonization "to revitalize the Church and inspire the faithful especially at a time when churches are empty and the Roman authority is in decline".

Researchers Serge Larivee and Genevieve Chenard from the University of Montreal's department of psychoeducation, and Carole Senechal of the University of Ottawa's faculty of education, analysed published writings about Mother Teresa and concluded that her hallowed image, "which does not stand up to analysis of the facts, was constructed, and that her beatification was orchestrated by an effective media campaign".

According to Larivee, facts debunk Teresa's myth. He says that the Vatican, before deciding on Teresa's beatification, did not take into account "her rather dubious way of caring for the sick, her questionable political contacts, her suspicious management of the enormous sums of money she received, and her overly dogmatic views regarding ... abortion, contraception, and divorce."

Read more @

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 8:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**GOLDIE et al**

I read the comments here mostly to see whats on people's minds.

I also read a lot of news sites, international ones. Today, for instance, a publication in the UK calls Obama a “ 'dithering, controlling, risk-averse' US president” and has unsettling things to say about our military strength and defense abilities., a global intelligence briefing site, tells it like it is about China, Russia, Syria etc. and gives a bare-faced look at the power movements in the world. Not for the easily alarmed.

Since I'm just an old, disabled 'useless eater', I have a lot of thinking time. Time to consider the state of the world. And time to remember the past. This allows the inevitible comparison; the search for patterns that repeat. “Those who cannot remember the past” and all....

Just my opinion, of course, but I see today like the 1930s...there is something in the atmosphere that is unsettling, disturbing but nobody's paying attention. The people are occupied with provincial problems and issues. Is it just business as usual? Or is it misdirection for something we could avert, if we were aware enough?

It's nobody's surprise that I take a “good vs. evil” approach when making these conclusions. And I say with some reluctance that I feel like a Berlin Jew in 1933.

I'd welcome, with great relief, any posts that can lay to rest these observations and resulting conclusions.

Oh, and Goldie, regarding your post, “Not sure why anybody would ever want to reveal their family secrets on a forum. Must be a craving for attention. “ - duly noted.

DeeLittle — March 4, 2013 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Former Bush aide: Palin ‘wasn’t competent enough’ for Fox News and diminishes CPAC**

President George W. Bush’s former chief strategist Matthew Dowd is slamming the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) for snubbing New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) while inviting former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R), who he asserts “wasn’t competent enough to keep a Fox News contract.”

Wall Street Journal editor Paul Gigot on Sunday told an ABC News panel that CPAC had made a mistake by not inviting Christie after he pushed Congress for Hurricane Sandy relief funds and backed some gun-control legislation following last year’s mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.

“If I were CPAC, I would have invited Christie and let him say what he wanted on guns or anything else,” Gigot insisted. “And if you disagree with him, boo him or what have you. But this is a time that the Republican Party needs to have a debate, and a pretty raucous debate.”

“CPAC, to me, has totally diminished its credibility as an organization,” Dowd agreed. “And you invite Sarah Palin, who wasn’t competent enough to keep a Fox News contract? But she’s invited to CPAC meeting?”

Democratic strategist James Carville, however, welcomed the CPAC move as something that could help Democrats by elevating fringe elements in the Republican Party.

“Any day that you have more Sarah Palin and less Chris Christie is a good day for James Carville,” he quipped. “I’m all for it!”

**Watch this video from ABC’s This Week, uploaded March 3, 2013.**


nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — March 4, 2013 at 8:59 p.m

Well said! I agree with you on your feelings about 1933 and I must say there are many others that do also. So never feel you are alone thinking it.

ELISI — March 4, 2013 at 9:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Allrighty then! :)

**The Sandy Hook deniers are delusional -- but their paranoid beliefs date back to the founding of America**

While it’s difficult to fathom why anyone would deny the deaths of 26 children and teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary last month, the conspiracy theories surrounding the massacre actually follow a fairly common pattern, experts who study them say, and may be more understandable than they first appear.

“This whole thing is bringing a variety of conspiracy theories from American history together,” explained Robert Goldberg, a historian at the University of Utah who has written a book and lectured extensively about American conspiracy theories.

While there are many flavors of conspiracy theories surrounding the shooting, one thread that unites many of them is the notion that this was a government hoax aimed at taking away people’s guns. **“Whether it’s the Oklahoma City bombing, or the Waco incident, or Ruby Ridge, or 9/11, or Sandy Hook, the idea is that these are modern Reichstags (the event that occurred in Germany in 1933), which is an excuse that the government is going to use to declare an emergency to take the guns away from the patriots, and then confine the patriots,” Goldberg said.**

Indeed, similar theories were floated after the shooting in Aurora, Colo., and even Gun Owners of American head Larry Pratt flirted with the notion. But the theories quickly sputtered away when Aurora didn’t lead to any meaningful action on gun control. Sandy Hook is different. The Obama administration seems likely to force some action, perhaps even by executive order, as Obama announced today.

Conspiracy theories are not unique to America — Hitler built an entire genocidal regime by convincing his people to believe anti-Jewish conspiracy theories — but the prevalence and potency of anti-government paranoia is particular to the U.S., and it’s a product of our history.

nailingit — March 4, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Didn't you say something a while back about Gillian Wallis and the Lucky Lager building? From a recent exchange I get the impression they're among those people who intended to cash in on the CRC project - and lost. Ms. Wallis says she supports LRT and the Portland model, but she's highly upset that the CRC powers have decided to take her building and put a parking lot there. (Who was it that wrote a song about that - Melanie Safka, maybe?) But you know details for the downtown goings on much better than I do.

Terick - If you're still around, I'd appreciate your view as a business owner also.

roger — March 5, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Melanie AND Joni Mitchell: paradise has many meanings and the CRC is paving it.

I'd like to start a friendly Forum contest this morning, with the CRC in mind:

Who can find another word for "boondoggle?" If I had a penny, just a penny, for every time it is used . . . . . there HAS to be some other options, just to exercise our puny brains?

manthou — March 5, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- Whenever I see the word "boondoggle", it tells me the conversation is flowing to the 65 & up crowd. In that sense I find it beneficial somewhat. :)

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 5, 2013 at 7:33 a.m.

how 'bout this one -


or this one


or this one


or this one


or this one


or my favorite which seems to hit the nail on the head the best -


goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"It’s minimal,” said Savita Subramanian, head of United States equity and quantitative strategy at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Over all, the sequester could reduce earnings at the biggest companies by just over 1 percent, she said, adding, “the market wants more austerity.”

and what the "market" wants, it'll probably get. After all, it's the 1% that runs it and DC.

How else can you explain record market high a few days after a report released stating personal income fell 4% in January.

With the "too big to fail" banks now even fewer and larger, they know the taxpayers will probably have to bail them out, so the casino known as Wall Street is really rockin' right now. And if the poo poo hits the fan in the market, the banks and corporations don't want that government money spent on things like food, schools, roads, etc for the masses because they want it. And what they want.....

mrd — March 5, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

[see what you started manthou?:)]

Let's reduce this to a acronym.

We have BRT-LRT-etc.

Now we have BTP.

Bridge To Paranoia.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 5, 2013 at 7:33 a.m

How about


Rape-rail, yeah I like it.
Why? Is the rail being pushed on us not an assault against what we voted more than once? Does it not take with some force, money from the citizens in way of unwanted fees, tolls and taxes?

ELISI — March 5, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 4, 2013 at 7:23 p.m.

I guess if you put a value on your life, monetarily speaking...

then yes, it would be the working poor versus the wealthy. From my perspective, the value of my existence...would be measured in what I would do or what I've done to reduce or eliminate any need for government help at any capacity altogether and to manage a comfortable life. If people in the working class would realize that life is quite manageable if they'd only take a long, hard look at their current budgetary needs, they'd find a lot of those "needs" are conveniences which creativity through advertising with regards to mass market trends have brainwashed the masses to believe what they have are necessities when in fact, they are not. I guess I visualize those caught up in the need to seek monetary gains as a bunch of farm critters heading to the feed trough...and it's always managed by someone else.

We hear all the time about the wealth of the very rich and what they have and we don't. Well holyc, you stated it quite well when you said "*I am a lucky man. Not rich because I would hate to be rich. I don't want to occupy my mind on keeping or multiplying that senseless money and quest to nowhere, and worry that someone is stealing from me or mismanaging my possessions. Peace of mind is my kind of wealth!"*

Seems to me holyc that on occasion, we have similar thoughts (referencing your statement). I will stand up for what I believe in and put in my two-cents worth in rather vocally when facts outweigh sales pitches, especially when it comes to proposed tax increases and failures of reckless government spending. Don't know if it even makes the slightest dent in decision making, but I won't go down without a fight (CRC for example). Maybe the outcome will not be my preference, but in life...we all manage to adapt whether it be staying put or moving on.

Regarding the real antichrist...IMO, you're partly right. I believe greed is one of the many aspects of what we refer to as the antichrist, along with selfishness.

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTP...Bridge to Poverty

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 5, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.

Not sure if I'm wise, lol...but thanks for the compliment. I hear ya about the soup versus the $50 steak. Methinks I'd prefer a nice cut of beef from the local butcher (hopefully Oregon/Washington raised beef at that) grilled on the barbecue would be a lot tastier and would be a better atmosphere with family and friends on a nice sunny day than sitting in a restaurant, although like you...I don't eat a lot of meat these days either. Gotta keep the diet balanced, you know. Looking at the price of steak dinners @$50 each plus tax and tips AND the price of fuel just to get there versus soup for the family at a cost of about $10 altogether leaves at least $90 left in the pocket book, lol. BTW, vegetable barley soup with a bit of savory beef added and home-baked French bread is in the menu at our home, today.

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Rep. Jim Moeller's interview shows the man to be quiet and friendly but also shows that he has no problem going against the vote by the majority of the people to suit his decision-making skills. It would be interesting to know if he was looking at ALL THE FACTS rather than what *they* want him to see when it comes to the crossing project. To say it's too late to change the bridge design is ludicrous.

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You guys all are impressively creative this morning with your "boondoggle" alternative labels!
I love 'em all!

manthou — March 5, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and what does it do to men...amazing wording and thought process in this 21st century. Conservatives...

**Iowa GOP Lawmakers Try To Curtail Divorce, Worry It Makes Young Women More 'Promiscuous'**

A bill making it harder for couples to divorce was approved by an Iowa state House subcommittee on Monday, with a supporter of the legislation arguing it is necessary to prevent young girls from being more "promiscuous."

The bill would make "no fault" divorces illegal in Iowa for parents of children who are minors. Now that it has been approved by the three-person subcommittee, it is ready for debate by the full state House Judiciary Committee, according to NBC 13 Des Moines.

State Rep. Tedd Gassman (R), one of the seven Republican sponsors of the bill, said that the legislation is an attempt to keep families together -- something he believes is a pillar that will keep the country from falling apart.

"I sincerely believe that the family is the foundation of this nation and this nation will go the direction of our families," said Gassman, according to Radio Iowa. "If our families break up, so will this nation."

Gassman also suggested that divorce can affect children's behavior, specifically that it can make teenage girls more likely to engage in sexual activity than children of parents who are not divorced.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 5, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.


nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't see two words or acronyms, that come to mind. How about saying 'this SNAFU' or 'this FUBAR'. I think this in line for what is going on at the CRC.

As long as the CRC has been making this a 'boondoggle' I have always said it's worse than that. From the first time I posted about them (March of '05) there has always been the feeling that they had already made up their minds what is 'good' for us.

Every time I hear our reps spout off about how glorious it will be MY ASS HURTS !!! Now they think just because Oregon tied their financing to our reps voting for the funds, they just have to do it.

I have said that I don't oppose a new bridge. I have said move the entrances to I-5 from SR-14 south to merge further North. gives them time to merge properly. I also said move the Hayden Island North entrance South a bit and let the have more time to merge. If they combined these proposals with retro fitting the bridge for better prevention of collapse in an earthquake there would be a hell of a lot of money saved. Then concentrate on a third bridge which is sorely needed.

I know it's flogging a dead horse but ya gotta keep telling them something that maybe will get to them.

I also know that us who voted for someone different in the last three elections found that we were out numbered but we still go on.

I want to bring up one more factoid the Jim M. overlooked. It will NOT create 10,000 Jobs. it will create 300 or 400 jobs at a time. Look it up on Willamette Week. Most of those will be done by out of state workers just like the I-205 bridge.

JohnCasey — March 5, 2013 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I am not positive but I think the Wallis the old Webber Machine Works bldg.If so I believe it is on the historic register.I haven't posted for awhile because I have gotten a few not nice phone calls.I emailed Jim Moeller and Don Benton last week and I have yet to hear back from either.I still think we need a bridge.I would like the third bridge option.I also would like to see no tolls or at least minimal tolls.I don't see how the people that work in Portland can afford 6.00 to 12.00 tolls.If people that support this would just stop to think about how much we buy that comes across the river they just might see what the cost of goods will be.Companys and truckers are not going absorbe the tolls.It will be passed on to all of us.

timerick — March 5, 2013 at 10:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*This middle class segment that's cheering sequester/austerity-they haven't a clue*

The same folks that voted for Obama by 51/49 or was it the folks who were just ill informed, some would say..

The Congressional Budget Office estimates the federal government is on pace to bring in a record $2.7 trillion in tax receipts this fiscal year.

The increase reflects a steady post-recession rise in revenues. They ticked up 6 percent in 2012, but according to the CBO could jump 11 percent in 2013.

The expected tax boost comes after Congress and the White House struck an eleventh-hour deal at the start of the year that allowed for an increase in tax rates for top earners, and for the expiration of a 2-point payroll tax cut. The agreement will play a big role in boosting revenues this year -- and is also the No. 1 reason cited by Republicans for not wanting to agree to more tax increases as part of a new budget deal.

"The president got $650 billion of higher taxes on the American people on January the 1st," House Speaker John Boehner told NBC's "Meet the Press" over the weekend. "How much more does he want?"

Obama, though, said at the start of the first Cabinet meeting of his second term Monday that he wants to continue to push for "the kind of balanced approach of spending cuts, revenues, entitlement reform that everybody knows is the right way to do things."

According to historical figures from the White House, the last tax revenue record was set in 2007, when the government raked in nearly $2.6 trillion. By 2009, tax revenue took a dive, before gradually building back up.

The CBO shows that, as a percentage of GDP, revenue is still below the 40-year average of 18 percent. The 2013 figure would represent 16.9 percent of GDP -- a full point higher than it was the year before.

The IRS has benefited from a bounty of sources, from increases in corporate income taxes to increases in estate and excise taxes.

Meanwhile, spending is on pace to hit $3.55 trillion in 2013, roughly what it was in 2012. According to the CBO, that represents 22.2 percent of GDP -- "a share that is still larger than in any year between 1986 and 2008."

While Republicans say spending is the problem, both sides agree that cutting discretionary spending alone -- or the annual spending that doesn't go to programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security -- will not solve America's debt and deficit crisis.

With the enactment of the sequester, Congress will cut deeper and deeper into discretionary spending. But costly entitlements will continue to grow, driving up the U.S. debt and also the annual interest taxpayers pay on that debt.

So can an intelegent person this admonistration is spending money we don't have....

vanwadreamer — March 5, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*So can an intelegent person this admonistration is spending money we don't have....*


vanwa/mrd/holycat/others interested in economy...

Check this out when you have some time. After the first ten minutes Joe settles in and contributes to the conversation.

A thoughtful dialogue regarding austerity/investment.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems the Oregon State Treasurer has been number crunching (again) and remains skeptical that the CRC is using accurate traffic data in generating their tolling scenarios.

"The project costs haven't been nailed down," Wheeler said. "There are a lot of question marks, including whether the federal funds will materialize. We're concerned about the governance model if the tolls don't pan out. The Coast Guard hasn't signed off on the height yet, so we don't know what revisions will be necessary.

"Have we given our seal of approval to the bridge? No, we have not."

As Steve Duin notes, "The Oregon Treasury deals in investment-grade analysis, the Legislature in superficial votes that curry favor with unions and the project's supporters in the business community."

roger — March 5, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The Lucky Lager Brewery is what she's been calling it. All before my time here.

The CRC is trying to float that tolls could be lower than previously projected - The company that's providing their tolling analysis was covered in Eric Florip's article in The Columbian yesterday, and they show tolling revenues to be higher than previously thought.

But, as Eric identifies - they're leaving a very critical part of the equation out - how many will divert to I205 due to no tolls there? And the plan is for the decision to be made long before this info is provided.

"The main figures used in the analysis assume peak-hour toll rates of $2.50 each way on the existing bridge starting in July 2015 — plus a $1.52 surcharge for vehicles without a tolling pass. By 2022, after the CRC is complete, the one-way toll rate would jump to $3.62 during rush hours, and stay there through 2060. For commuters with an electronic pass, that's a $7.24 round trip to get to work and back.

"The report doesn't, however, include detailed estimates of traffic diversion — that is, how many cars would skip tolls by heading to a toll-free Interstate 205, for example. That information will be refined in later work, Strickler said.

"The report was prepared by consultant CDM Smith, which the CRC hired last year to conduct a tolling analysis. The preliminary numbers were sent to Washington and Oregon lawmakers last week, despite being originally promised in January. The firm is expected to complete a more thorough investment-grade analysis by late 2013 — long after both legislatures would have to commit funding for the project to stay on track."

roger — March 5, 2013 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

After reading what you just wrote Roger,I would have to ask the CRC folks just what have you been doing all these years?
Don't you think that all of these studies should have been done and available years ago.I think there should be a complete investigation into the CRC.We had bridge crews in Vietnam that could have built 10 bridges by now.

timerick — March 5, 2013 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger/Timerick ---

This is the Citizen Forum [2/11] at City Council. Ms Wallis is the first speaker. Property is at 4th & Columbia according to her.

langenthal — March 5, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Conservative Media Struggles For Credibility, Amid Coverage Of Hookers, Hamas And Hagel**

The National Review, a leading voice in the conservative movement since 1955, isn't cutting back on opinion writing or strong editorial stands. But Costa and his team of three reporters are gaining recognition inside Republican circles and among the Washington media
establishment for actually making calls, staking out the Capitol and breaking news. Costa recently reported the inside story of the attempted House GOP "coup" against Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and scooped that former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney will speak at this year's Conservative Political Action Conference.

It's the type of shoe-leather reporting that many political observers and even some prominent conservatives claim is sorely lacking on the right. Their critiques seemed confirmed this past month as several conservative media-driven stories fell flat, from speculation that Chuck Hagel wouldn’t be confirmed as defense secretary to reports that he’d spoken to a shadowy (and fictitious) group called "Friends of Hamas." On Friday, a prominent conservative writer and commentator was found to have been heavily involved in a paid propaganda operation funded by the Malaysian government. And over the past 24 hours, both The Washington Post and ABC News have called into question an explosive Daily Caller story alleging that Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) slept with prostitutes in the Dominican Republic.

And so, while outlets like The Daily Caller, Breitbart News and the Washington Free Beacon have sprouted and, in some cases, prospered during President Barack Obama's administration, concern is mounting that they and others in the conservative media universe are shedding their credibility by focusing more on supposed scandals than reporting the basics of who, what, when, where, why and how.


RedState editor Erick Erickson argued last week that conservative outlets have been "failing to advance ideas and stories" beyond their ideological borders. "The echo in the chamber has gotten so loud it is not well understood outside the echo chamber in the mainstream press and in the public," Erickson wrote. "It translates only as anger and noise, neither of which are conducive to the art of persuasion."

It was, in many respects, a remarkable admission. Erickson, whose site is known more for conservative activism than reporting, is not seen as someone with deep journalistic roots. But he's hardly the only one who has concluded that one of the Republican Party's major failures in the past election cycle was the inability of the conservative press to shape the conversation.

Read more @

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some entertaining reading on the facebook side. There are two articles about the feds being called on to shoot down Washington and Colorado laws legalizing marijuana - one by a bunch of ex-DEA chiefs, and one by a UN anti narcotics organization. The pro-dope Libs and the pro-States Rights Cons are on the same side for once.

roger — March 5, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 5, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Nobody should call themselves a "conservative" and believe that the Federal government has the authority to outlaw marijuana. It troubled me greatly when our so called "conservative" Representative took this stand, and cost her my vote.

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Attn Gen Holder will not rule out drone strikes in the US, so the prez can conduct his own little wars with his own little armies and the CIA right here in the good ol' USA. Hoodathunk, huh? Spreading his ability to do so, without any oversight, to right here. Of course, we can trust him to do the right thing, all the time, right?

In related news, aquiring drones is projected to be big business in the coming years. Of course the uses are all OK, the article mentioned monitoring pipelines, fields, sporting events, etc., but law enforcement-which was listed lastly, hmmm-is by far and away procurring drones at a much faster rate. In the article I read, the only misgiving mentioned about the widespread proliferation of drones was "what happens when the media sends drones into the Hollywood Hills?" Gawd help us if the Hollywood crowd gets spied on-leave that to the 99%ers.

Proud to be an American?-not so much anymore.

mrd — March 5, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What if this...what if that???

What good does it do wondering what if??? You think the government has suddenly become something which makes you no longer as proud to be an American, mrd???

Rude awakening when your sense of security has been threatened, huh...but it's no reason to no longer to be proud to be an American. We as a nation voted these people in. We can sure as heck vote them out, too. Anybody who was hired during a certain presidential term can be removed from position at the drop of a pin.

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

When we live in a world where organized crime from outside our nation is infiltrating us with narcotics and God knows what else...when in our own local community, a man tries to destroy a holiday celebration with what he believes is a weapon of mass destruction...when a man on a jetliner tries to cause harm/death to everyone on a plane with an explosive device in the lining of his shoe...when a man in our community could quite possibly be involved in assisting a terror suspect who committed suicide, killing and injuring many...when a man causes injuries to the masses with letter bombs...when a small group of men decide to make a statement by blowing up an entire government building and murders innocent children and their parents...when a group of men hijacked jetliners and crashed into huge skyscrapers and the US Pentagon...

Yeah, I can understand why drones could very well be flying overhead. Our world has changed, folks. Sometimes you have to ask yourself...would you rather our government take a more passive stance against terrorism and drug cartels???

goldenoldie — March 5, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"We can sure as heck vote them out, too. Anybody who was hired during a certain presidential term can be removed from position at the drop of a pin."

Makes me think of the line from a song, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Until there is a way to wrest control from the monied folks-which doesn't now exist-vote your head off, it ain't gonna change. So if the current system makes you proud of it, I'm happy fer ya'.

BTW, do you REALLY think these drones are going to be stored until the government-and that includes the pOlice-think the use of drones is absolutely necessary? I don't. The use will become routine, same as security cameras, airport screening, etc. We put up with this BS, and soon it becomes the norm. Children today will be so adjusted to government intrusion they'll wonder why the intrusions were not done way back when, and it sounds (I could be wrong) that you're OK with this because ???. When people support government actions that are inherently wrong because it's "the right thing to do as an American", we're all screwed. Wait until the economic lid comes off and the government line to the masses is "hey guys, take one for the team".

mrd — March 5, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

This is the first Tuesday so Commissioners are meeting now if anyone is interested.

Livestreaming and live on CVTV.

langenthal — March 5, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — March 5, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.

Thanks for the video of the town meeting. It reinforces what I've suspected all along - The Wallis' made a business investment, lost out to a bigger player, and this is what has Ms. Wallis upset. The bought the brewery building in 2007 for $1.7 mil, and sunk another $700,000 into refurbishing the place into an office building. This was about the time when it became clear Oregon was insisting on light rail, and Mayor Pollard and others were going to concede this so they could have their new bridge. Back then, the rail was supposed to run out Main, across 4th Plain by the Dairy Queen and on up to Kiggins Bowl. Columbia at 4th St was going to be some prime real estate.

Ms Wallis made this last point quite clear in her comment after Gordon Ramsey's business column article on the CRC this past Sunday. She continually bounces back and forth between the historical significance of the brewery (Really? I never heard of Lucky Lager), the prime location it's in, and the benefits of LRT to include much higher housing prices.

In the video, she makes her one point I do agree with - it's bogus that C-Tran (?) changed the planned design for the garage to accommodate the Hilton and their view of Mount Hood (which I suspect the bridge and the LRT ramp will do anyhow). But then she repeatedly notes that WSDOT, while not making an actually offer yet, is only going to pay fair market value. My bet is that the Wallis' were planning on making a whole lot more than their initial investment once the bridge was done and the rest of the downtown revitalization plans were underway. Now they'll only break even.

Sorry. But they won't be standing alone - many more are going to lose due to this project.

roger — March 5, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Taxpayer money hard at work.

**ACORN, In New GOP Budget Bill, Would Be Defunded Again, Even Though It No Longer Exists**

WASHINGTON -- A new short-term budget bill introduced on Monday by House Republicans includes a bizarre provision banning federal funding to anti-poverty group ACORN, despite the fact that the group has already been stripped of federal funding -- and has been defunct for nearly three years.

ACORN leaders announced that the group was disbanding in March 2010, after Congress cut off all federal funding to the organization. The provision in the current GOP budget bill [PDF], buried on page 221 of 269, would duplicate legislation that has already passed, to target an organization that does not exist.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.

True - if you want my opinion. But we can't really agree what it means to be a conservative anymore, can we? I sort of recall Clark County's own "#1 Conservative" Lew Waters raising hell about the Ron Paul supporters and refusing to consider a Libertarian a true Conservative. (Or something like that.)

roger — March 5, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 5, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.

Lew is a Neo Conservative and doesn't have a clue what Conservative means.

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***considering we re-elected him...JUST HOW STUPID DOES OBAMA THINK WE ARE??***

> The White House announced Tuesday that
> it is canceling tours of the
> president’s home for the foreseeable
> future as the sequester spending cuts
> begin to bite and the administration
> makes good on its warnings of painful
> decisions. Announcement of the
> decision — made in an email from the
> White House Visitors Office — came
> hours after The Washington Times
> reported on another administration
> email that seemed to show at least one
> agency has been instructed to make
> sure the cuts are as painful as
> President Obama promised they would
> be.

*fwiw, most white house tours are handled by volunteers*

DeeLittle — March 5, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sounds like a fun read!

**Disgraced Ex-Congressman Attacks John Boehner in New Book**

*Bob Ney, who was imprisoned for his role in the Jack Abramoff scandal, has some scores to settle.*

The book’s 377 pages are packed with insider criticisms of some of Washington’s biggest names of the past two decades. The targets for the longtime GOP officeholder are almost all fellow Republicans, including current House Speaker John Boehner; former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales; the assistant attorney general who prosecuted him; Republican strategist Karl Rove; former President George W. Bush; former Vice President Dick Cheney; former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay; and Sen. John McCain.

Surprisingly, Ney praises the federal judge who sentenced him, and he exhibits more sadness than anger toward super-lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the man responsible for his downfall.

In the book, Sideswiped: Lessons Learned Courtesy of the Hit Men of Capitol Hill, Ney does not shield himself from criticism. He writes a lot about his out-of-control drinking but insists he is not blaming his problems on alcoholism. He proudly notes he has not had a drink since Sept. 13, 2006, 30 days before he pleaded guilty to one charge of making false statements and one charge of “honest services fraud” for accepting gifts, trips, meals, and drinks from Abramoff.

Before the book, Ney had talked extensively about his situation only once, in a 2010 interview with National Journal Daily. In that interview, he joked that before overcoming his anger, “I could have computerized my resentment list.” In some ways, this book is that list.

Ney’s most dramatic accusations are against his fellow Ohioan John Boehner,  the man he once saw as his biggest rival to someday being speaker. **He describes Boehner as “a bit lazy” and “a man who was all about winning and money. He was a chain-smoking, relentless wine drinker who was more interested in the high life--golf, women, cigarettes, fun, and alcohol.” He said Boehner “spent almost all of his time on fundraising, not policy.” He “golfed, drank constantly, and took the easy way legislatively.”** Ney recalled Boehner handing out checks on the House floor and said his ties with a tobacco company were so tight that lawmakers could get free cigarettes from Boehner’s office. His golfing, Ney said, was “nonstop” and “paid for by lobbyists.”

Ney wrote: “If the Justice Department were ever to make John produce receipts for his addiction to golf just for the years from 1995 to 2004, he would be hard-pressed to comply. John got away with more than any other Member on the Hill.”

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I heard about this on the radio today, check a few main stream news medias and never heard a word about it. Check a few web sites out and only one I found it on was Glenn Beck's The Blaze so figured I'd wait to see if any news media would report it to see if it was true. Then I found it on Mother Jones..

**Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil**

Yes, the president does have the authority to use military force against American citizens on US soil—but only in "an extraordinary circumstance," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Tuesday.

"The US Attorney General's refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes on American citizens and on American soil is more than frightening," Paul said Tuesday. "It is an affront the constitutional due process rights of all Americans."

Last month, Paul threatened to filibuster the nomination of John Brennan, Obama's pick to head the CIA, "until he answers the question of whether or not the president can kill American citizens through the drone strike program on US soil." Tuesday, Brennan told Paul that "the agency I have been nominated to lead does not conduct lethal operations inside the United States—nor does it have any authority to do so." Brennan said that the Justice Department would answer Paul's question about whether Americans could be targeted for lethal strikes on US soil.

For the rest of the article...

ELISI — March 5, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One only has to look at the most popular and powerful Conservative gathering in all the land to understand what a true conservative is.


**C**onservative **P**olitical **A**ction **C**onference

Everybody else is pretendin'.

Some factions come with secret decoder rings, Godfather's pizza, pocket sized constitutions (complete with Ron Paul contribution instructions), Glenn Beck coffee mugs...but they're all representative of today's *true* conservative.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Lew is a Neo Conservative and doesn't have a clue what Conservative means.*

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 7:12 p.m.

Lew Waters is a perfect representative of today's conservative. And yesterday's. And tomorrow's.

You are insulting him without provocation.

Maybe you two should hash this out via FaceBook. :)) Sounds like fun! Tiresome-but fun!

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.

"Maybe you two should hash this out via FaceBook"

We have and apparently you missed it.

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.

Conservatives believe in smaller less intrusive Government, Neo Conservatives believe in growing government to accomplish their goals. The Neo conservative movement was spawned by democrats leaving their party because they believed in civil rights and polluting the republicans with their big government thinking.

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't check out FB all that much.

The same ol' blah blah blah kinda like in here, but one can only blah so much.

Besides, the Basement is where it all began. Why I remember the time...

I've always looked to Lew as being a wonderful Conservative representative. In thought, intellect, ideology, temperament etc., all in all a pretty good balance.

We have a conservative basement wild-eyed nut or two, but that has more to do with health concerns than ideology.

Than we have a seemingly lower keyed conservative off brand or two with a sounder thought process and better tempered, but shoots the rabbit hole every so often.

Yeah-I think Lew falls in the middle somewhere.

But closer to the (d)aft end of this sinking ship.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- Do you consider anyone else who posts in the basement a Conservative?

If so, who?

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

.....just cleaning up a bit.....

**White House Tours Nixed By Sequester**

Planning to tour the White House any time soon? You might want to rethink the idea.

The White House is canceling tours effective Saturday, citing staffing cutbacks triggered by the sequester—the $85 billion in across-the-board spending cuts that kicked in last week. **The White House, part of the National Park Service, says it doesn't have the personnel to keep the tours going.**

The self-guided tours normally take place Tuesday through Saturday, according to the White House website. People must submit tour requests through members of Congress.

"It's very unfortunate," said Rep. Steve Israel (D., N.Y.). "It's more unfortunate because it's avoidable. All it will take is some Republicans in the House who are willing to negotiate a truly balanced budget."

A Republican National Committee spokeswoman, Kirsten Kukowski, said of the cancellations: "This is a childish ploy from a White House that doesn't have a strong negotiating hand."

**The Secret Service said reassigning officers from tour duty to other security jobs would reduce overtime costs and could ultimately reduce any necessary furloughs at the agency.**

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

No, I didn't expect you to know or care what a Conservative is.

frobert — March 5, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- Do you consider anyone else who posts in the basement a Conservative?

If so, who?

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 9:05 p.m.

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert- Maybe this will help bring some definition to you as it did me. Some words really stood out. Don't blame me, talk to Merriam Webster.

1con·ser·va·tive adjective \kən-ˈsər-və-tiv\

**Definition of CONSERVATIVE**


: preservative


a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism

b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative


a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional

b : marked by moderation or caution

c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners
: of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism

— con·ser·va·tive·ly adverb

— con·ser·va·tive·ness noun

See conservative defined for English-language learners »

See conservative defined for kids »


She is a liberal Democrat who married a conservative Republican.

She's more conservative now than she was in college.

First Known Use of CONSERVATIVE

14th century


archconservative, brassbound, button-down (or buttoned-down), die-hard, hidebound, **mossbacked**, old-fashioned, old-line, old-school, orthodox, paleoconservative, **reactionary**, standpat, traditional, traditionalistic, ultraconservative, unprogressive

broad-minded, large-minded, liberal, nonconservative, nonconventional, nonorthodox, nontraditional, open-minded, progressive, unconventional, unorthodox


nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Related Words

conventional, **square**; devoted, faithful, loyal, staunch (also stanch), steadfast, steady, true, true-blue; **blimpish**, neoconservative, Tory, **ultraright**, ultrarightist; **dowdy**, fogyish (or fogeyish), **fuddy-duddy**, **ossified,** set, **stodgy;** right, right-wing; **antiliberal**, **antimodern,** **antiprogressive**, antireform, antirevolutionary

Near Antonyms

anticonventional, antiestablishment, antitraditional, extremist, radical, revolutionary; nonconformist; advanced, contemporary, modern; lefty, radical, ultraleft, ultraleftist, ultraprogressive, ultraradical


Other Government and Politics Terms

agent provocateur, agitprop, autarky, cabal, egalitarianism, federalism, hegemony, plenipotentiary, popular sovereignty, socialism


2conservative noun

Definition of CONSERVATIVE


a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism

b capitalized : a member or supporter of a conservative political party


a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views

b : a cautious or discreet person

See conservative defined for English-language learners »


His message is being well received by conservatives.

First Known Use of CONSERVATIVE



archconservative, paleoconservative, reactionary, rightist, right-winger, Tory, traditionalist


leftist, left-winger, lefty, liberal, progressive

Related Words

right, right-wing; **conformist;** neocon, neoconservative; diehard, standpatter; bourbon, **Colonel Blimp, fuddy-duddy, square, stuffed shirt**

Near Antonyms

extremist, radical, red, revolutionary, revolutionist; reformer, reformist


Other Government and Politics Terms

agent provocateur, agitprop, autarky, cabal, egalitarianism, federalism, hegemony, plenipotentiary, popular sovereignty, socialism



con·ser·va·tive adjective \kən-ˈsər-vət-iv\ (Medical Dictionary)
Medical Definition of CONSERVATIVE

: not extreme or drastic; especially : designed to preserve parts or restore or preserve function —compare aggressive 3, radical
—con·ser·va·tive·ly adverb


Thesaurus: All synonyms and antonyms for "conservative"
Spanish-English Dictionary: Translation of "conservative"

Next Word in the Dictionary: Conservative Baptist
Previous Word in the Dictionary: conservatist
All Words Near: conservative
Seen & Heard

Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible).

*Fox News. Sean Hannity proclamation of conservatism.*

nailingit — March 5, 2013 at 11:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I’ve addressed this issue of defining Liberal and Conservative, a number of times before.

As far as I’m concerned, dictionary definitions are meaningless. Nail’s definition doesn’t really define anything other than to say “conserve”. Other definitions get so complicated with one nuance after another as to also be meaningless.

So in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, just who were the Conservatives, and just who were the Liberals? That’s right. In this country it’s the other way around when it comes to the role of government. Using certain of these definitions doesn’t really say anything. They just say conserve or change. Based on What?

Some time back I linked to a Libertarian website that had a short quiz. But the more important thing was their description of political ideas. On one end was Libertarian, and on the other was Authoritarian. Conservatives were Libertarian in matters of government non-interference in the private sector economics and Authoritarian in certain social issues, while Liberals were Authoritarian in private sector economics and Libertarian in other social issues. It is a short and concise description of the difference between political outlooks.

Almost no one is 100 % one way or the other. Perhaps if you finally look at things with these things in mind, things will make sense.

kn_dalai — March 6, 2013 at 12:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — March 5, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.

If you think I'm okay with drones flying over us all day long, you're crazy. If you think I'm okay with drones equipped with firing power to take down lives in US soil, you're insane.

My point was and still is...our elected leadership...the one the US citizens voted into office...are the ones who must answer to such "anti-terrorism" methods and must answer to the voters.

mrd, I'm so sick and tired of this partisan war we're experiencing here with one side always blaming the other. A mind game by the powers that be - fed quite easily through mass media, news outlets, the film and television industry and advertising. What goes on in the forum on a daily basis with regards to liberal/conservative or left-wing/right-wing BULLCRAP is exactly what our government wants us to do. They want us to add to the mayhem they have developed since...I'd say...back in the late 40's. We're puppets on a string with the elite power in control!!! Whether it be our president and the US Congress or Madore and Moeller, the opposition between government leaders has become so has the voters feuding - angry - frustrated - all but giving up. No matter what we say or where we go to say it, they're not listening to us. We can shout out till we're blue in the face! It doesn't help when people get online and say crap like "if you don't like it, then move elsewhere." Well mrd, some do leave. Others try to continue the fight and are viewed upon as old geezers with nothing better to do and the powers that be have the edge, claiming it's for the future - winning over the impressionable and naive younger generation. Yeah, they might take a couple of pointers from us "old geezers," but it's used to develop into something totally different from what our original intentions were. A good example...9/11. We were in shock. The media played that up...and to this day, all they have to say is 9/11 and the laws have changed forever. Our freedom has been compromised.

Do I blame the terrorists? Not completely. Who I blame is ourselves...we've allowed the elite leadership and their helpers, mass media and the rest to use psychological mind games to transform our government into what it is today. You have to ask yourself sometimes "Just why is it these 'terrorists' are attacking us?" First case in point...acquisition of fossil fuels (gas guzzlin' Uhmerikans are to blame when it's obvious the US oil companies are more interested in selling what is harvested here in order to profit rather than helping our nation). Second case in point...acquisition of pure minerals.

The problem - GREED. That *more is better* mentality.

We were okay with spy drones used in Iraq and Afghanistan but when the tables are turned and they're on our soil to be used against what they claim as terrorist groups, everyone is screaming AW HELL NO!!! Not in MY backyard. Kinda late, don't you think???

goldenoldie — March 6, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Making some excellent points there, Goldie!

luvithere — March 6, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Interview with the youngest member of Congress. 29! Maybe there's hope...

You don't have to be trapped in the GOP forever. Once blind but now they see...

**Patrick Murphy, Disgusted Ex-Republican, Pushes Bipartisan Caucus As Democrat In Congress**

"As the Iraqi war began to evolve, and more and more information became available to us, I began to disenfranchise myself from the Republican Party because I thought we were being lied to," Murphy said in an interview with The Huffington Post.

Then the taxed-enough-already movement erupted with at least part of a message that Murphy said he liked -- fiscal responsibility. The problem was the way they went about it, with the accompanying social conservatism and episodes of virulent anger aimed at Americans they didn't agree with.

"The tea party movement went off on a more extreme agenda that I did not support at all, and was very frustrated by it, to the point that not only did I change parties, I decided to do something about it and run for Congress," Murphy said.

**Q** Do you see the Republican Party continuing down the same road that led you to leave?

**A** I wouldn't be comfortable grouping the party. I think they are very divided right now, and I think there's people splintering off. I think even a lot of Republicans would agree with that. Who's going to win this debate? Some of the more moderate Republicans, or some of the more extreme Republicans? Even within the freshman class and the members I've gotten to know a little bit better, a lot of them aren't happy with the tea party. A lot of them don't like the pressure that's being put on them. They want that more moderate voice, they wany to get something done, and acknowledge that the only way we're going to get something done in the Congress is if we do it in a bipartisan manner.

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 7:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*A must see to understand the mentality and senseless emotional furor that's emanating from the right.*

*Conservatives bully from whatever pulpit they can. It's what conservatives do out of frustration for lack of argument. They displace it with hate and anger. When all else fails, just start screaming someone's a liar, over and over. It doesn't work (as well as being childish) the basement or Faux news.*

*This is the kind of crap Dems have to deal with on Capital Hill. The right has demonized this President from day 1.*

**Bill O'Reilly Calls 'Bull-Blank': Fox News Host Rages Against Alan Colmes (VIDEO)**

In a moment reminiscent of one very famous viral video, Bill O'Reilly lost his cool during his Fox News program Monday night, slamming his fist on his desk and shouting repeatedly over guest Alan Colmes, whom he insisted was full of "bull-blank."

O'Reilly's temper flared during a conversation about Barack Obama's attitude toward spending cuts. Colmes, responding to suggestions that Obama has no interest in addressing the national debt, pointed out that the president has repeatedly offered Republicans in Congress a deficit reduction scheme of $2.50 in cuts for every dollar in extra taxes levied.

The example visibly irritated O'Reilly, who demanded Colmes provide specific examples of programs Obama said he would cut. When Colmes answered "Medicare," O'Reilly went off:

O'REILLY: Hold it. Hold it. Because now I'm getting teed off at you. Give me one damn program he said he'd cut.

COLMES: He has cut entitlements. He's cut--

O'REILLY: Not entitlements! [slams fist on desk] One program!

COLMES: Why are you yelling? What are you yelling for?

O'REILLY: Because you're lying. You are lying here.

O'Reilly then repeated his claim that Colmes was lying several times, much to the guest's chagrin. When Colmes later described in detail the Medicare cuts Obama has proposed, O'Reilly appeared unmoved.

"This is bull-blank," he said, putting a cap on the bitter exchange.;=Politics

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bill becomes completely unhinged at about the 5 min mark.

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

go @6:31


mrd — March 6, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

What a terrible interview. It seems as half the time is taken with Lou setting up a question and once he does it's like..what?

No disrespect intended, but someone a bit more on their toes with smarter/articulate questioning combined with smart follow-up would be welcomed.

It's like the questions were made up on the fly, combined with head scratching follow ups.

Where's Matt when you need him? :) His Twitter thoughts were better than this!

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I used to watch the "weather" drones always going over my house when I was a child- they've been around for quite sometime.

Reading the articles and comments with Facebook made me realize which saddens me to know the education system and T.M.I. standards has failed. No I don't want to know about your bowel movements and what the procedure entails. And I don't want to know if a sex crime was actually some bdsm and the lady didn't like it because she was cheating on her husband while married. What it's called is she got caught by her husband and cried rape.

What about the 18 year old kid that was drunk and wrecked a stolen car? He left his friend for what? I feel for the family and that E36 m3. And drinking? Where do they get the Alcohol?

andrecht — March 6, 2013 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holy- And the questions bore no substance. It's the "do you feel like I feel" type stuff. Lou ain't no Peter Frampton! It's like he didn't prepare.

I have different thoughts on Rep Moeller. I might be too trusting, but I think he's pretty sincere and works hard at his job by anyone's standard, Dem or Repub,

Having said that, you can be sincere but be sincerely wrong and take a crazy direction. (as many in the House are)

It is true he's party aligned. It's the why and how he got elected. The fact that he opens himself up to public scrutiny the way he does speaks quite a bit about him. I like the guy and think he has Vancouver's best interest at heart.

No matter how much society is changing, it has to be a heavy load to be openly gay in Vantucky. Probably doesn't matter much what our laws are and the positive direction we're taking as a state when you get into a room full of noxcious conservatives that want to stick it to you! :)

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

While the chairman of the Federal Reserve is appointed by the President, it acts entirely independent of the President or the Congress. Decisions as to policy are made entirely by the Board of Governors.

kn_dalai — March 6, 2013 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Reading the articles and comments with Facebook made me realize which saddens me to know the education system and T.M.I. standards has failed.*

andrecht — March 6, 2013 at 11:21 a.m.

Can I call you andy? :) (I dig this clip)

I wouldn't place too much blame on our education system for lousy FB comments. Some people just haven't much class. You can lead a horse to water but...

Yes, sometimes waay too much info given.

*What about the 18 year old kid that was drunk and wrecked a stolen car? He left his friend for what? I feel for the family and that E36 m3. And drinking? Where do they get the Alcohol?*

I lost a close friend to a car wreck at 17, as well as a couple of friends to suicide and overdose around the same time spanning a couple of years. A couple of years later my old roommate/close friend was murdered by his own father.

I feel for the family also. I know there were many a times in my youth when events could have turned out one way or another, and I could have ended up nothing more than a parents memory.

All we can do is teach them from a parents standpoint and a structured way as in school. Kids know better, they just choose to do whatever.

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

NAIL- 7:58 yesterday comment

What was funny is you could have inserted Obama for Boehner in the article. Chain Smokin fool, Wine sippin scoundrel, and someone who hates to loose on the golf course....

Ney writes this book after getting out of "prison" and who has become "Born Again" through the teachings of the Dalai Lama... Who that sounds like some of us in the basement... Why is he so angry if he has been "born Again" or is he a baby and just crying....

House just passes new continuing resolution to fund government with bi partisanship....Now if Obama can get his act together and send them a budget to pass.

vanwadreamer — March 6, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There's a storm coming!!! Holy ----!

**Revealed: Pentagon's link to Iraqi torture centres**

**Exclusive: General David Petraeus and 'dirty wars' veteran behind commando units implicated in detainee abuse**

The Pentagon sent a US veteran of the "dirty wars" in Central America to oversee sectarian police commando units in Iraq that set up secret detention and torture centres to get information from insurgents. These units conducted some of the worst acts of torture during the US occupation and accelerated the country's descent into full-scale civil war.

See the full-length documentary film of the 15-month

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

NAIL- 7:58 [7:19] yesterday comment

vanwadreamer — March 6, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.

I was careful to say a *fun read* understanding the circumstances. Boehner's antics are legendary, but I understand where you are coming from.

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 6, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.

I'm glad this drone program is being highlighted as I think it's a negative for now/future foreign relations, at least the way we are doing it. Definitely not on board with Obama on this and haven't been. I've linked a few articles in the past about this. Check this last one out. More than disturbing.

We're moving the goalposts without assuming responsibility, and civilian deaths far out weigh combatant casualty's.

But it depends on the who and the how dead bodies are being counted.

We're ensuring deep seeded Middle East American hate for generations to come.

I agree. Props to the ACLU

Regardless of Paul's motivations I'm glad he's doing this.

Brennen is going to be confirmed and he knows it. A big part of this is grandstanding to his base.

But I do hope that Rand Paul is serious about this matter on some level. (he doesn't seem to be serious about governing on any level so far) We need members of Congress to stand up about this.

I'm sure drone parts can be smuggled into country with other like items.

Good thing we aren't cutting funds for Homeland Security/Port entry's etc. ;((

I suspect in coming years criminal civilian use will be the thing.

Honest civilians will want them for protection...

Of course cops will want more...

Pretty soon hand guns will be outdated.

I wonder what standards will exist for drone magazine ammo capacity? ;)

nailingit — March 6, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Rand Paul.

Some of you think that the ideas embedded in the Federal Constitution of over 200 years ago are obsolete. Really? Among other things, if that is the case, then the solution(s) are Constitutional amendment(s). But I guess there’s a reason why that doesn’t happen too often, and I would guess it has to do with pop culture versus certain inviolate truths.

So now, how about the sixth amendment and a trial by jury? Is that also obsolete?

An interesting thing is going on with Rand Paul right now.

It involves the idea of the ticking time bomb, I think. And also has something to do with the idea behind the Patriot Act, and citizens being targeted for suspicions, rather than a process through habeas corpus, as is what our constitution guarantees us.

Sort of like the cops breaking into your home and blasting you, without due process. Then again, that’s what happened to Mr. Bin Laden. Of course, he wasn’t a US citizen, and that could be considered as an act of war.

This other thing that Sen. Paul is bringing on, presents some more interesting questions for most of us.

kn_dalai — March 6, 2013 at 8:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The only provision for nonpayment is if they are under default of the contract," said Bronson Potter, the county's chief civil deputy prosecutor, during a Wednesday meeting of Clark County commissioners. "There is no claim that they are. So at this point, under the contract, the money is owed. If we don't pay it, we are under default of the contract."

can Madore and his minions unilaterally break a contract? Can a small guy fight/sue for their money? NO. most will take a helluva cut just to get and close the account.

Hmmm..... Do you wanna sign a contract with Madore or his ilk? I run a small, granted very small business, and after many years, I've learned the first rule is to insure I'll get paid. Do work for Madore? Clark County? NO WAY! Get someone in Mexico or India on the hook. I wouldn't do chit for these yoyos on a bet.

mrd — March 6, 2013 at 9:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Social Security and medicare were fully funded until Bush stole the money and gave it to defense contractors. That is the truth. ...holycrapola — March 6, 2013 at 11:46 a.m*

would appreciate a cite for that...i've seen 2nd hand info saying otherwise.

DeeLittle — March 6, 2013 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HolyC - Alvin Lee was very conservative in his approach to playing good music - he rocked, but refused to go the flash routine. Probably why he never got the acclaim he deserved. He was one of the true great guitarists.

roger — March 7, 2013 at 5:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 7, 2013 at 6:16 a.m.

Your posted link was a nice piece of fiction, but only slightly based in fact. The Clinton administration never ran a surplus, our national debt increased every year and has not run a surplus since the Eisenhower administration. Politically motivated publications are no more than propaganda.

frobert — March 7, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, I forgot to link my source

frobert — March 7, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 7, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.

The market is overvalued and will "correct", it always does, but as usual our learned economists don't believe it can happen.

frobert — March 7, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc and frobert,

Actually Johnson was the first pres to steal errr take money from social security.

ELISI — March 7, 2013 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow first pair of Bluejays in my yard this year. Spring is on it's way. Yard has been full of Bush-tits and Juno's for a week, next will be the Robins.

ELISI — March 7, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Music lovers. I was lost in Paco & Co for awhile last night and thought to share.

Different genre, but it does not get better than this.

roger- On Alvin Lee. He got plenty of acclaim back in the day on the West Coast. We thought he was (and is a guitar God) right up there with the best ever.

One of the first and best to incorporate jazz/classical/rock/blues/all good fusion blasts.

A Space In Time brings back memories.

Good times. :)

nailingit — March 7, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

It's refreshing to see an elected politician doing the work OF the people and FOR the people for once. Kudos pour out to Representative Jaime Herrera Beutler in raising questions and expecting answers to the Columbia River Crossing group, thanks to the effort of local high-tech business leaders who aren't afraid to step outside the box and raise eyebrows when they (as I do) recognize what could be a nefarious scheme to rip off the community by certain parties involved.

Quotes from Columbian article, "Herrera Beutler questions CRC expenses"

*Herrera Beutler questioned why CRC money is marked for the expansion of a TriMet maintenance facility in Gresham, Ore., and for upgrades to Portland’s Steel Bridge, among other items. The CRC would replace the Interstate 5 Bridge, rebuild nearby freeway interchanges and extend Portland light rail into Vancouver.*

*Herrera Beutler also asked why the Vancouver extension of light rail is expected to cost more per mile than light rail stretches in Portland and Seattle.*

It'll be interesting to see the wordplay laying the groundwork to the excuses provided by the CRC folks.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW you do yourself a disservice if not using headphones/other when listening on computer.

I have to say, as diverse as this forum is with regards to politics, ideology, etc., we come together with great music.

Maybe Congress should take this approach.

Start all Congressional proceedings with a prayer and music request with accompanying video.

Maybe they should smoke a bowl or two during lunch if things aren't going well.

When have you ever seen a bunch of people getting high and not agreeing on anything.

Some smoke, good food...come back from lunch and view video & stats of America's starving poor and homeless, as well as Wall Street celebrating record profits.

Maybe then.....


nailingit — March 7, 2013 at 8:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*The best solution if you stand against the CRC/LRT is to not use the bridge.*

holycrapola — March 6, 2013 at 8:25 a.m.

Actually holyc, that is not the best solution. I am not waiting for the tolling system to be installed and I will not sit idle as the powers that be continue to wrangle with our livelihood in order to build the current design...something with absolutely no improvement on mobility, especially since one deck will be for bicycles to nowhere (into Portland with no bicycle route planned) and the fact that there will not be an increase in through traffic lanes which would reduce the bottleneck on the bridge site and traffic tie-ups that are a result of the bottleneck.

My best solution is to continue to keep a close watch on the project as it develops; to continue contacting those I believe are most directly involved in the approval process and to continue providing on public discussion sites and open meetings on what I believe are key points in flaws of the current bridge design.

I have no doubt in my mind that the bridges will be replaced (possibly without light rail and with a HCT lane in each direction). I have no doubt in my mind that there will be a tolling system installed, not only on the bridges, but along the entire I-5 Corridor in the near future, hence the test of more electronic sign boards along the way. (I'd be more than happy to pay a daily toll if the end result matched the needs of the community. Light rail does **not** meet the needs of our community at this time...probably never will.) If (and that's a big ***IF***) it ever did become a necessity, then the funding should go to our own transit system, not to one from another state. The central meeting point for the two transit entities could be where the state lines separate Washington from Oregon...and possibly on a transit line separate from the bridges. My thoughts have always been...replace the railroad bridge and incorporate commuter/light rail into the design with heavy rail lines separate from light rail lines exclusively.

That my dear friend, is progress...a progressive move (yep, you heard it from me) to improve traffic mobility and a system to help counter the forever increasing costs to make the improvements necessary to keep the traffic flowing and to maintain the highway system.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

C-SPAN2-Lindsey Graham is trying to take Rand Paul to task during this filibuster. Some cheap shots imo.

This is one time (on subject of Military/DOD/Drone foreign intervention) when the most Liberal fringe of the Democratic Party is in agreement with the most Conservative fringe of the Republican Party. On principle nonetheless.

Fascinating and rarely happens. It's principled positions such as this is what drew me to vote Libertarian many many years ago.

And the rest of Congress stands hunched in the middle to pacify their lobbyist's and corporate.

Gee, I wonder who will get there way. ;)

McCain & Graham are performing a duet on the Senate floor. These two seemed to be joined at the hip, (sounds like a horror movie) they're even talking Jane Fonda and crap. What an embarrassment! When are Republicans going kick these two to the curb.

nailingit — March 7, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just finished watching Rep. Moeller's video on the CRC and am shaking my head. Does he not take into consideration what the voters have said THREE TIMES, now??? Nobody wants to pay for funding for maintenance and operations of light rail to Clark College. Shouldn't that be a clue???

With regards to his comment about the groups who overwhelmingly supported the current LPA...

He should consider the source of information presented TO the groups and how and why the information was worded and promoted the way it was in order to gain that *"overwhelming support."* He should also consider the fact that the studies made years back which included future traffic, population and industrial growth numbers were grossly inaccurate but were quite convincing at the time of presentation. It sounded great...but it was incorrect data based on assumptions which missed the target.

However...I DO agree with Rep. Moeller when he stated he believed the majority of the people recognize the fact that the bridge should be replaced...

but he does have to realize that same majority also realizes the promoters had to creatively augment the data to paint that pretty picture...that "vision of the future," to sell it to the powers that be. He also has to realize that same majority doesn't want to pay for something which won't improve traffic mobility, that the people want a functional bridge...NOT some iconic reminder of wasted taxpayer dollars.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Bridge construction will get in the way of sailboats on the river too, holyc.

As far as a growing number of community members are concerned, the horse is alive and kicking involved, my friend. Included in my little growing list of people I share in discussion with regards to the issues behind the CRC project - you know, the issues they don't want the public to know...strangers of all ages including several who are in their mid 20's as well as 30's and 40's are involved, holyc...not that many who are older than myself have attended when I did. The voters...we aren't all in our upper third segment of our lives as you try to portray it because of meeting attendance. Heck, the last open house at Covington Middle School had folks of all ages...and the folks have made it very clear they're not happy with what transportation officials claim is the best solution...hence the reasoning behind C-Tran's inability to get the taxpayers on board to pay for it through sales tax. Ahh...but C-Tran has been able to get support for M&O; of our OWN mass transit system. What's that tell ya??? You see, is my belief that IF C-Tran hadn't included light rail in the sales tax increase and left BRT funding by itself in the last request, they would've been getting started on Vancouver's improvements by now.

NOBODY WANTS *MAX* in Vancouver. That is...nobody in their right minds.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 1:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And no, Herrera-Beutler is NOT too late! That's what you've been led to believe but until the first bridge foundation is poured, it's still an open ball game. There's still too many hurdles for this thing to even get on the ground and as long as officials who support the current design continue with this deception, it will only stall the process even longer...possibly cause the project to be scrapped altogether, then it will take that *"Hell or High Water"* to replace the bridges. You see holyc, there's a little issue of three manufacturing corporations east of I-5 Bridge who make millions annually between them...and the ability to ship their products downriver. Are you aware of what is going on behind the scenes right now or are you only basing your "facts" on the CRC website? Just curious.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nothing is over yet. Read the attached; there's a better than 50/50 that the project dies. Rivers and King are both opposed to light rail, and they're two of the Senate powers. Andrea Damewood continues to be the best source of info on the CRC.

And the Oregon State Treasurer isn't buying the tolling revenues info CRC is putting out.

As Jim Moeller notes in his CRC interview with Editor Lou, he thinks there's a 50/50 chance they'll get the CRC passed in this state. And Jim is being optimistic because that's what he wants.

roger — March 7, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc: But make sure, once they cross to the north bank of the Columbia, they offer a little weed for the short trip to the end of the line....

Gives new meaning to Light Rail.

manthou — March 7, 2013 at 4:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 7, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.

Exactly, as I'd said, roger. It isn't over till the first bridge foundation is poured. I admire Rep. Moeller for his dedication to what he believes is the right thing to do but in the same sense, it is absolutely wrong to overlook the fine print and go ahead with the promotion of any mega project. It took Ms. Couch and her dedication to her line of work to truly begin to open the eyes of those who have seen this project through those rose-colored glasses. Either that or blinders.


holyc, you do understand that if the crossing is built at 116' minimum deck height, that it will cut out at least one of those three working businesses from shipping their products. That would mean more people out of work, less attention to the region for manufacture and production of high-end products. If the minimum height restrictions are held to 121' which the USCG had stated from the beginning, LRT will not be able to manage the incline...hence, your little happy train would have to stay in Orygon.

BTW, when speaking of BRT, we're speaking of vehicles which resemble the streetcars TriMet is utilizing. The only difference...they're on wheels and can maneuver around accidents and do not rely on overhead wires for mobility.

As far as your idea of rendering cocktails to riders??? You do realize they'd have to drive home from the parking facilities, right??? It ain't gonna float. It'll be a sinking ship before it leaves the harbor. Methinks a "happy train" from Union Station to a destination further north from Vancouver...maybe to the future casino/hotel that some on here have dreamed about would be a good plan.

Your creativity is ...well... definitely unusual.

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 7, 2013 at 5:08 p.m.

Naw...just got too much of that good weather and maybe a little something else???

BTW, that taxi service you're proposing...who's going to pay for it???

goldenoldie — March 7, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 7, 2013 at 3:31 p.m.

And later, too.

Why bother with a motel? Just add a couple of "sleeper cars" to your train.

So, from what you wrote, you'd ban both cars and buses - I gather we're to take the train to somewhere or other, and then walk/run/bike the rest of the way. And we'll be so loaded, we won't care that it's raining.

Sounds like a great plan. Almost as much fun as Hood to Coast/Portland to Coast. (Actually, even more fun after HTC banned drinking a few years back.)

But I sort of suspect my boss wants me to show up to work on time - clean, dry, and straight. And after a few days on the party train run I'd get fired. So unemployment would go up. And then crime - 'cause I'd have to jump your a**, tie you up, and toss you over the side of the flippin' bridge.

And the party train would find all this highly amusing - just another bit of entertainment - they'd all have to get their cell phones out, call everyone they know, and tell the world about these two crazy old guys carrying on - I want some of whatever they're on!

Eric Holder calling - No more dope for you, HC.

roger — March 7, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Does anyone else use TRICARE Prime? DOD is taking it away from retirees unless you live within 40 miles of a base.

roger — March 7, 2013 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 7, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 7, 2013 at 11:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just reread yesterday evening - was in a hurry then because I had to do my chores, etc.

Anyhow - The comment about jumping you - intended as humor - to respond to the crime statement. Kindly take it as such.

RE: The bike route around the County. That may well be in the works - we just haven't been told yet. Go back and check the history of this bridge project. The first plan put out had groups like Bike Portland up in arms - the bike lane was an afterthought, and they were going to end up like on Glenn Jackson. One of the little CRC "secrets" - cyclists are a powerful enough informal lobby around here that they were invited to meet with CRC planners, and we ended up designing them their own private biker/walker level under the northbound span with a "stunning" view of Mount Hood. And this would complete a big loop around Clark and Portland (something like 38 or 50 miles?). The cyclists were ecstatic - we can actually have our own races here!

(Update - At least, that's the way it was supposed to go. Once someone sat down and actually figured out what the project is going to look like (the "aircraft carrier" animation that's been circulating recently) they realized they'd been had - all they get to see is a few ramps. And that increase in height is going to make for a nice little climb.)

But to get back on track, I never did find out where this bike route went. I figured probably Marine Drive (it'd be insane to try to go much further south on I5), though that will need some safety upgrades. And then back up I205. But where on this side? Are we going to be building a path along I5/I205 up to the Salmon Creek area? That would be a roughly 30 mile loop. Hmmm... Whatever. Anything to get those crazy cyclists off of my Padden Parkway trail - Don't they know we runners and walkers own that path?

roger — March 8, 2013 at 5:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc, when it comes to the issue of drinking and all that's's not creativity. To create a party-type atmosphere, you needn't include alcohol. When it comes to's not creativity. When coming up with a concoction of the type of "party train" you speak of, I believe you have forgotten there are teens who ride the train as well as small children with their parents AFTER the parents had a long day at work, picking their children up from the daycare. Quite a reckless "creativity unleased" as you call it. Why do you think I added to your idea with a commuter train to a casino??? Something meant for folks over 21, my friend. It seems drinking, sexploitation and gambling are all connected these days. Trying to make our region into a secondary Sin City are ya???

Yeah...a bit of an overreaction but someone had to say it.

goldenoldie — March 8, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 8, 2013 at 5:36 a.m.

Not only us runners and walkers...but us taxpayin' fools, too!!! How many times have I been clipped by them thar wild *cyclers* on that trail??? Especially the little greenhorns on their four-wheelers...just kiddin'. Heck, sometimes those cyclers don't even give us folks a heads up that they're comin'...scarin' the begeebees out of us from behind on occasion, lol. Usually smiles all around with parties involved.

All in all, the Padden Parkway trail is a good one. Haven't tackled the overpass over I-205 yet...but it's a good one and folks are quite respectable when it comes to rights of way.

goldenoldie — March 8, 2013 at 6:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - The I205 overpass is good for endurance training - a perfect distance to sprint up and jog down a few times. Otherwise - no real reason to cross unless you're going to cut back by the old farm house and cross over to 72nd Ave.

The cyclists have gotten better. A few years ago they were all into their little Tour de France craze; mid-June through late July was a pain. You'd get these groups of 10-20 cyclists cruising the trail 3 and 4 across, and expecting foot traffic to get off (mind you, not to the side but actually off) the trail for them. I helped cause a crash one time - wouldn't get off the trail and kept running straight at a cyclist coming at me. A few yards out he got the clue and cut right to avoid me - nailed the wheel of one of his partners and they both went down. I'm a little nutso about things like this - I get into those situations and think I'm still a 30 y.o. Army Airborne soldier and indestructible!!!

roger — March 8, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well back from Vegas. Looks like nothing new here. I think I got my work complete down there, time will tell.

Good morning everybody, time for coffee and catch-up.

hawkeye — March 8, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

That was a quick trip, Hawkeye. Never, ever been to Vegas or Reno.

A friend of mine tells me there is a special hangover treatment there: Hangover Heaven. You get an IV infusion of vitamins and minerals in your hotel.

My hangover heaven solution: moderation, if anything at all. :)

manthou — March 8, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 8, 2013 at 10:57 a.m

Reno is kind of old and tired. Some good casinos there but not like Vegas.

Vegas has gone crazy in the new casino business. It's 24/7 and busy all the time. Best to stay off the strip unless you really want to deal with drunks and hustlers. Spring and Fall are the best times to go. Winter is really cold, Summer is really hot. I was there last Summer in July and it was 104 at Midnight.

There are a lot of newer casinos far away from the strip now. There are a bunch of them called "Station Casinos" that are run by the came company. They are spread throughout the whole valley and that's where most of the locals go.

Some of the strip casinos are really cool inside, they have huge aquariums, animal shows, all kinds of different things to see. The Bellagio has the most beautiful stained glass ceiling that was designed by Washington's own Dale Chihuly. It's really breathtaking. And of course the fountains in front are neat.

Fremont street is the old part of town, everybody has to go there at least once to see the light show. There is a roof over the street and it's lit with millions of LEDs, it's like a huge TV screen. The street itself has all the really old casinos on it and it kind of smells old. There is a ZIP line that goes from one end to the other, it's a fun but short ride.

There are lots of things to do other than casinos, there is the Hoover Dam and the new bridge there. You can tour the dam, really cool. There are lots of deserts to see and really great rock formations, there is one area called "Red Rock", it has some pretty cool rock formations, there is a strip of red right in the middle of the side of the mountain. I don't know how it got there but I think they have a park and info on the history of it all.

All in all, I think everybody should visit there at least once just to see the sights. If nothing else, go see why the Republican'ts seem to have a lot of conventions and group meetings there. LOL

hawkeye — March 8, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just received an email from "Dun & Bradstreet". It says they have a complaint about my company and to read the accompanying file and get back to them.

Well, first off, I got no company and secondly, I looked it up online and it's a big ol scan.

Best to delete it and forget it. If you open the zip file it will probably infect your computer with something nasty.

hawkeye — March 8, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

LOL Hawkeye better a email that you can delete, than phone calls I get on my cell from a Hispanic church in Burlington, Wa or a nursing home about "mom" in Bellevue.

First off I am not Hispanic and my mother passed away 2 yrs ago.

My email rule is, never open and delete anything that is not family, friends or a site I have signed up to get.

ELISI — March 8, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK, HolyC - I see you've been reading Mike Yancey comments.

I'm somewhat curious over whether he (and Michael from Portland) just play dumb to piss people off. Mike Yancey is on the C-Tran Advisory Board, as the Bistate Commuter Rep (something like that). This is a voluntary position, and they may be desperate to get people to fill them - a few are unfilled. I read a couple of their meeting minutes (rather dull proceedings) and noted their chair likes to designate him to be in working groups to study things. Are they truly that hard up?

roger — March 8, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I don't have TRICARE but I do use the VA.I'm a level 3 and I couldn't be happier with the treatment I have gotten here in Vancouver and over on the hill.I wish I had done this 30 years ago.Have you thought of going to the VA?

timerick — March 8, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

In the "from the other side of the ditch" department

hawkeye — March 8, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***considering we re-elected him...JUST HOW STUPID DOES OBAMA THINK WE ARE?? (part 2)***

> “There's one piece of this that I
> wanted to note for you,” spokesman
> Josh Earnest told reporters at their
> daily briefing. “Director Brennan was
> sworn in with his hand on an original
> draft of the Constitution that had
> George Washington's personal
> handwriting and annotations on it,
> dating from 1787.” Earnest said
> Brennan had asked for a document from
> the National Archives that would
> demonstrate the U.S. is a nation of
> laws. "Director Brennan told the
> president that he made the request to
> the archives because he wanted to
> reaffirm his commitment to the rule of
> law as he took the oath of office as
> director of the CIA,” Earnest said.
> The Constitution itself went into
> effect in 1789. But troublemaking
> blogger Marcy Wheeler points out that
> what was missing from the Constitution
> in 1787 is also quite symbolic: The
> Bill of Rights, which did not
> officially go into effect until
> December 1791 after ratification by
> states. (Caution: Marcy's post has
> some strong language.) That means: No
> freedom of speech and of the press, no
> right to bear arms, no Fourth
> Amendment ban on “unreasonable
> searches and seizures,” and no right
> to a jury trial."

DeeLittle — March 8, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick - I plan on going to the Vets meeting in Hazel Dell this Thursday and talking with them. I figure I've got to get in there and work on kicking my percentage up some too - if I can get them to add my sleep apnea, I'll go over the "magical" 50%. I should have gone before - but I hate going to the doctor and won't if I can find something better to do.

(Like yell at Nails.)

roger — March 8, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***First off I am not Hispanic and my mother passed away 2 yrs ago. ELISI — March 8, 2013 at 12:27 p.m***

i get emai from my sister - who died three years ago.

DeeLittle — March 8, 2013 at 8:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Geez - Donny looks almost human in the pic on The Oregonian - I prefer the sideways leer one; I checked closely to see if he was sliding the other guy's wristwatch off.

I am still trying to figure out how they say we do have the right to vote on the financing, but not the system itself. Both votes are set in State law - RCW 81.104.030.

I'm disappointed to see C-Tran Director Patterson starting to make noises about a reduced voting district - to those who would benefit most. This discounts the rest of us having to pay extra for a bridge with two levels to carry the system. But I don't really see it happening - I doubt they could begin to raise the money needed for O&M;, with sales tax and other sources, out of just the downtown area that approved the LRT sales tax. And he also needs to look at his own bigger picture - if they pulled this stunt, C-Tran wouldn't see another sales tax increase pass for many years to come. They'll have to decide how important BRT is to C-Tran's own future operations - help force LRT on us, and wave bye bye.

roger — March 8, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Jeez, dem red staters and ther gun stuff, it don't git no bettrn dis. lessin' ya'll think we's need some kinda edukashun gonna help. Maybe we might nought outta consider gun control. Buts ya gotta member, the deer and elk would presheat the fact we's gotta kell them with a gun with 2 or 3 rounds stead of 2 dozen shots. Latest I hear, they've agreed to hold their positions until the semi-automatic 30 shot magazines have been emptied for the stupid hunters that can't hit the broad side of a friggin' barn. NOW THAT'S BEING SPORTMENLIKE, unlik sum other folks.

A northwestern Montana man shot and killed the host of the Sportsman Channel show "A Rifleman's Journal" in an apparent jealous rage while the TV personality was visiting the shooter's wife, police said Friday.

'course the next crime weren't gun related...heck, he only beat the woman, wats the problum with that?

Wayne Bengston, 41, then beat his wife, took his 2-year-old son to a relative's house and drove to his home about 25 miles away in West Glacier, where he killed himself, Whitefish Police Chief Bill Dial said.

"It's pretty much an open-and-closed case. Homicide and suicide," Dial said.

Police identified the shooting victim as Gregory G. Rodriguez, 43, of Sugar Land, Texas. Bengston's wife told police that Rodriguez was in town on business and visiting her at her mother's house in Whitefish when her husband showed up Thursday at about 10:30 p.m.

Amerika, home of the brave, assuming you've got a gun, and the land of the free, assuming you're free, white, and 21. How friggin' special we are. At least we're no Banana Republic, yet. That'll be tomorrow.

Damn, we're so done as a empire. But as history has shown, they come and go. China was on top of the heap 1000 years ago, and is now back on top. The US is now a toothless tiger, with a formidable army, but can't afford to use it. We have been totally drained by bad choices and Osama bin Laden. Give the man credit, his $50,000 investment cost the US trillions. And we've not added up the total, mis-spent, and wasted money "re-building" Iraq. Wait 'til that bill is due-oh, my bad, it is-seen you're fed deficit lately? But not to worry, as usual, Halliburton and the boys WILL get paid. The defense contractors WILL get paid. So all is well is Merika.

mrd — March 8, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — March 8, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.

Que the music----

hawkeye — March 8, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


you may have something there....and here i blamed hackers... ***ooooWHEEEEEooooo.***...........

DeeLittle — March 8, 2013 at 11:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK HC, I happen to think that Ms. Rivers has it right and she needs to convince everyone else that this is what we want.

hawkeye — March 9, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dare away. And there area actually three rather powerful State Senators who are on record as opposed to the CRC. Sen King (Yakima) is co-Chair of the Senate Trans Committee, and Sen Benton is Vice co-Chair. Senator Rivers serves on the Ways and Means Committee. All three have repeatedly questioned the costs and benefits of this project, as well as the way it's been developed. And Sen Rivers has the ear of a couple of other quite powerful Senators - Sen Hill (east King County) and Sen Baumgartner (Spokane) - the Chair and Vice Chair of Senate Ways and Means. Both are insisting on meeting funding obligations without raising taxes, and are against the recent State Supreme Court decision overturning the 2/3 vote requirement. Additionally, Sen Baumgartner is pushing for a review of all projects dependent on federal funding, and wants to know alternate planning if that funding doesn't come. This is a particularly appropriate question for the CRC, because there is no other source except to sell more bonds or to raise fees on the public. Which gets us back to the matter of economic benefit - almost all is for Portland, and Port of Seattle businesses also make out better than anything ID'd for Clark County. What do we get? A train that makes it even easier for people to spend money playing and shopping in Portland. There's something definitely wrong with this picture; fortunately, we have these Senators who've identified this and want to stop it.

roger — March 9, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wanna see some cool cars?

hawkeye — March 9, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I like the Lamborghini. Something says it isn't street legal. And something else says it costs as much or more than my house.

I wonder if these cars lose a fifth (or whatever it is) of their value when driven off the new car lot?

roger — March 9, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, some interesting thoughts on Lou's post today. Not that they will make any difference or that we could actually say anything to ANYONE that would change anything. They are going to do whatever they want regardless of what anyone says. I did get a nice little note on FB from HO telling me to STFU. (spelled out) Nice to know he cares.

hawkeye — March 9, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye...did you receive the recent email from Rep. Herrera-Beutler regarding her letter to the director of the Columbia River Crossing??? I believe it was up on the Columbian's website when you were in Sin City. (btw, welcome back)

Amazing how they've tried to sneak in some expenditures. Expenditures for ...*Hood River channel restoration project at $6.9 million???*... or *$15 million for the Lewis River restoration project???*... or how 'bout *$51 million for a TriMet maintenance facility *IN GRESHAM???** And that's just a few of the outrageous sneaker expenditures they're putting in on this project that a few think it's what we need!!!

Can anybody say....**"EMBEZZLEMENT???"** or how 'bout **"EXTORTION???"**

This project is becoming more and more ridiculous every day, I swear!!! You know, it is my opinion that if the tables were turned and C-Tran was the transit service receiving funding to improve our transit service across the bridges...more Clark County taxpayers would be on board and Portland AND the State of Oregon would have put the brakes on the entire project, refusing it completely.

goldenoldie — March 9, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I noticed a few comments have disappeared there - it's definitely getting heated. Someone named Mike was also referred to - but no Mike. And I wonder why VK can get away with calling people a name that refers to the male genitals in Yiddish? I guess the poor shnuk (Yiddish-American slang for idiot) doesn't realize that some people from that part of the country (especially ones that had a Jew for a college roomie) know what those words mean!

roger — March 9, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JHB's letter to Nancy Boyd is a must read. She ID's those problems Goldie mentions -- and a whole lot more.

Yes, they do plan on having tolls pay for all those Oregon side interchange upgrades - WA State commuters who already pay OR income tax are also going to pay for their roads so their own citizens don't have to.

She asks why this light rail project is going to cost $293 million per mile; much more expensive than either the Seattle or Portland projects going on, and far far more than the national average of $35 million per mile. Well, that Gresham rail car maintenance facility expansion is going to cost well over $50 million for starters; a few tens of millions more than the recent expansion of that same facility to support the Green line. The three parking garages in Vancouver will be charged to the LRT project. Keep digging, and more will pop up. There sure seems to be a bit of defrauding the federal gov't going on here. Ted Stevens' Bridge to Nowhere, at $400 million, was chump change compared to this boondoggle.

roger — March 9, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I wouldn't mind taking the Aston Martin for a spin.

nailingit — March 9, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For anybody who likes those highly overpriced super cars (nice to look at for sure), here's a bit of information for you:

Ferrari LaFerrari (hybrid which will cost a tad bit over $1 million - 499 will be produced) -16.6 mpg. according to manufacturer

Lamborghini Veneno ($3.9 million-dollar price tag for this hybrid and only three produced; already sold out): No mpg provided by manufacturer...a sweet ride, most definitely!!!

McLaren P1 (hybrid - 375 produced, priced a little over $1 million):
mpg data unavailable

Just a sampling of a few of these beauties. Guess if you can afford to own one of these babies, miles per gallon isn't an issue, huh!

goldenoldie — March 10, 2013 at 6:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JHB's letter pointed out many serious questions that should have been asked years ago. This shady thing called CRC might be to the point were it has become a bureaucratic snowball, with a momentum all it's own and past the point of slowing it.

I do hope we hear a response to the letter before they're driving the piles.

mrd — March 10, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

...and so it begins.....

nailingit — March 10, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Not bad for cars- the subies got my attention ;)

But what about that wooden bike? Dang I wouldn't want to get slivers out from that!

andrecht — March 10, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 10, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

Nobody's making you buy one, goldie. I just posted it because it's probably the only chance most of us will get to see any of these unbelievable vehicles.

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

old man hawk...are you really that dumb? Even Sheldon learns to think outside the box...bazinga.

mxfun118 — March 10, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Jeez Louise, Hawkeye!!!

If I didn't know you were a man, I'd think you've got PMS today. What the...??? Must be the *monthly gravitational pull* time.
It was a joke about the miles per gallon - A JOKE, hawkeye. Yeah, maybe a bit lame but still stated in jest. What do I have to do...put an emoticon every time I write anything lightheartedly? I never said anything against your comment.

Besides, I'd rather see those beauties in person any day. Would I ever buy one? No...just like to see art in motion. Just sharin' information I'd found about them.

Guess you didn't see in my post about those absotively, posilutely gorgeous cars, and my favorite selection was the Lamborghini Veneno...hence the only one with a comment about the way it looks. By the judge of things, guess I had a bit of class in my choice at a price tag of $3.9 mil. Either that or I recognized a masterpiece when I saw it in the photo.

Oh...and one more comment and it's regarding your post on March 9, 2013 at 4:53 p.m. I still can't figure out how someone can write a comment to another, asking them to STFU since everything is typed, no vocalization whatsoever...that is, unless it means "**S**tarting **T**o **F**eel **U**nloved."

goldenoldie — March 10, 2013 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*What do I have to do...put an emoticon every time I write anything lightheartedly?*

Since nobody knows if or when you are going to go off on someone, some kind of notice would be nice.

As for the STFU comment, if you had a FB account you might know what I was talking about. Since you say you don't, it would be hard to explain.

mxfun118 — March 10, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.

Really? What seems to be your major malfunction? I don't recall saying anything to you. Why the hostility?

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.

Hawkeye, my fellow longtime forum member...maybe you could explain to me then, why you wrote the note directed to me in the tone you did @10:48 am. I'm still wonderin' why you'd come to the conclusion that I thought I was being forced to buy something, based on pictures at a car event. I thought the link you provided was great, to be honest. Sweet rides...obviously for the car enthusiasts who have that kind of extra cash laying around. The information I gave was just that...information - and it was for everyone, not just directed at you.

goldenoldie — March 10, 2013 at 5:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 10, 2013 at 5:53 p.m.

When I first read your post you sounded like you were complaining. I guess I'm just used to you doing just that.

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 6 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, Goldie,

It's really time to get political party politics out of the CRC discussion. (And I just got done nailing Lew Waters on this same point.) The anti CRC movement use to be pretty apolitical, up until this last election and Madore and Moeller turning it that way. And now a lot of the discussions are degenerating into arguments based less on the project and more on other issues. The only people that benefits are Jim Moeller and the pro CRC crowd. (You know - Nails and Mike Briggs. And sometimes I wonder if you're one and the same?)

roger — March 10, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***That was my last job.***

Two hours into my first day of work as a WalMart greeter, an ugly woman came in with her two kids.

Hearing her swear at them, I said, "Good morning, welcome to WalMart. Nice kids, are they twins?"

The mom answered, "Hell no, they ain't twins. The oldest one's 9, and the other one's 7. Why would you think they're twins? Are you blind or stupid?"

I replied, "I'm not blind or stupid. I just couldn't believe someone slept with you twice. Have a good day, and thank you for shopping at WalMart."

My supervisor said I probably wasn't cut out for this line of work.

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye -

Damn - And that was going to be my next retired guy job when I get tired of working for the feds. But if they don't allow employees to have a little fun....

roger — March 10, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Timerick,

You're my downtown POCs.

Anyhow, The C ran an article back on 28 Feb about the imminent sale of old City Hall to the Firstenberg Brothers. The article mentioned an asking price, and noted there were five bidders. What got my attention was that the reporter said the school district super being interviewed (Horenstein?) declined to say what was going to be done with the building. I asked what the bid offered by the brothers was, and whether it was the high bid. No response.

Probably nothing to it, but this seems a bit strange. The school board is a public entity, and "the people" have a right to know what's going to be done with the building - office space rentals or something else. I'm curious why The C didn't see fit to follow up and find out what they're planning, and why selling price wasn't considered important.

Might either of you know anything?

roger — March 10, 2013 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger, from what I read, the boys gave 1.85m for the building. It's going to be leased out to whoever wants to use it. Since the brothers bought it, it no longer has anything to do with the school district or the city so I don't think they are concerned.

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*It's really time to get political party politics out of the CRC discussion.*

:)))..yes yes...we need to work our way up to that. Let's start with something a bit more achievable and solving world hunger or stopping all wars.

*The only people that benefits are Jim Moeller and the pro CRC crowd. (You know - Nails and Mike Briggs. And sometimes I wonder if you're one and the same?)*

roger — March 10, 2013 at 6:03 p.m.

It's not often I think someone else is as stoned as I am, but I gotta say...

And yes, all with positive emoticons. :)

nailingit — March 10, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 10, 2013 at 6:03 p.m.

There’s a jobs issue, which is going to involve Union’s.

Then there’s the whole public transportation issue, which is about government planners pushing commuters out of their cars, and into buses and LRT. Which you and I have both commented on.

While I think your previous comment, a couple of weeks ago, about this being apolitical has some merit to it; when you factor out those with personal stakes in the game, such as certain business interests or the personal vehicle commuters themselves who stand to pay a lot in tolls, I think you’re left with the basic aforementioned factions.

Look at those who line up in favor of LRT, and those who are opposed, and it pretty much falls in line with their general thinking on things.

Everything is political, up until the point that there is an indisputable common alliance.

BTW, I’ve wondered if LRT commuters over the bridge, would be assessed some sort of extra fee, or if they would get a free pass. I haven’t followed this like some of you obviously have. Just the same, I’ve never seen this come up. Of course, I guess it goes without saying that the LRT riders wouldn’t have to pay anything extra for the use of the new bridge. Or something very nominal just to appease critics.

kn_dalai — March 10, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, I'm working on a theory that you, Jim Moeller, Mike Briggs, Sir Basil, and every other Liberal who posts on The C are all the same person. I mean, this is Vantucky!!! You're on the wrong side of the river, or 120 miles too far south.

I'll get back when I get the details straight. In the meantime, and again following your theme ---

roger — March 10, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Several on our side of the river (Leavitt and Moeller) have opined that a surcharge could/would be imposed on tickets so the rail riders pay their "fair share." And I believe C-Tran policy requires something like 40% recovery from LRT ticket cost (vs. only about 30% for bus) - (and these numbers are off the top of my head - there's a C-Tran workshop document from last June or July with the details).

The problem is, fares are going to have to be identical to TriMet's - otherwise, we'd all go buy their tickets instead of C-Tran's. No way are P'Towners going to put up with paying a surcharge for a bridge they'll never cross. And there hasn't been any talk about this for quite some time. We'll see when the tolling analysis is released in several months, but I really doubt it will happen.

roger — March 10, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 10, 2013 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Out of use Indian Light Rail cable saves the day.

nailingit — March 10, 2013 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

joe cocker was the real thing alright

DeeLittle — March 11, 2013 at 2:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*When I first read your post you sounded like you were complaining. I guess I'm just used to you doing just that.*

hawkeye — March 10, 2013 at 6 p.m.

Not nice, buddy. Out of curiosity, hawkeye...what is it you claim you're doing when you post?

Just wonderin'.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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