Open forum, March 11-17



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I agree with you. That is why I call many people, sheepeople. They blindly accept whatever the government tells them. Blindly follows and blindly votes for them.

Who does this remind you of?

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."

"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."

"It is not truth that matters, but victory."

"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

March 20th is the international Day of Happiness. Take a pledge to spread some good vibes. Do something kind for a stranger. Smile. Sing. Laugh. Our collective minds can make a difference for everyone. Joy or despair. Our choice.

manthou — March 11, 2013 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi - Joseph Goebbels. Or his boss.

HolyC - JFK onward through Clinton (with a big push by the Repub's god Ronald) killed our economy by allowing corporations to attack unions, relocate overseas rather than paying decent wages here, and lately by their war on pensions. People are under the illusion their 401(k) is making them money; they just fail to realize that money isn't worth anywhere near what it used to be.

roger — March 11, 2013 at 8:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Guys are different, they invest in things, toys for instance, tools, sound equipment. Women invest in appearance, kitchen stuff, garage sale stuff, jewels, clothing, etc. Both genders and the ones in between are suffering now.*

holycrapola — March 11, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.


One thing you have to know about women, holyc...some of us consider "kitchen stuff" as OUR tools (not exactly toys but I'll reference them as such for you) since we like to create healthy meals not only for ourselves, but for our men in our lives as well and the "kitchen stuff" we purchase is usually purchased to make our jobs less stressful. And yes, I buy "kitchen TOOLS." Not the latest "seen on television" gadgets. Oh no...more like a food processor, free-standing mixer, coffee grinders, new utensils (since the other ones were destroyed on the other half's "toy" on the patio, grilling vegetables or salmon...rather than he using his designated bbq "toys..." yeah, "Kitchen gadgets." Seems to the women of the house are forever having to make necessary purchases, even checking out that "garage sale stuff" to try to save some money by not buying brand new.

And Holyc...not everyone in the USA fits the descriptive you provided in your rather entertaining Monday Morning Narrative, but it did bring a smile to this person's face if that's any consolation. No storage unit needed in this family, lol.

BTW, everybody can increase their own Net Worth by paying off their credit card debts.

Just a woman's perspective.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 11, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.

Nice post.

I believe if we all did one random act of kindness a day, our world would be quite different from what we are witnessing today (not just one day in the year). So many are caught up in the "me first" mentality. Sad...truly sad.

My vote is for joy; true joy...not the kind that masks the ills of society. One we can all share together.

Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holoyc...also, in response to the first comment of this forum by you...humans have nobody to place the blame for the mess they're in besides themselves.

Common sense is no longer the norm. We're witnessing the beginning of the end result.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Bingo! Actually Hitler said those, many thought it was Goebbels. My point was, doesn't those statements fit our government of today?

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 11, 2013 at 8:05 a.m

I am a firm believer in "paying it forward" everyday.
Be it a simple smile to holding a door open for the next person to complimenting parent/s on job well done when I see well behaved children to paying for a military person's breakfast, lunch or dinner anonymously etc.

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 8:34 a.m

LOL got my "kitchen tools" as well as husband has his "mechanic, lawn, and wood working tools"

It only takes a few minutes to make butter with a mixer, 100 years ago one had to use a butter churn and took half a day to make, so yeah I like my "kitchen tools" ;)

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Else, Half a day to make butter? When I was a kid, it was my job to churn the butter. I, at first, shook it in a quart jar. Later we got a regular butter churn. I really like churning the butter, but it only took a half hour to 45 minutes from cream to butter and butter milk, that included getting the butter milk out of the butter. P.S. That wasn't a 100 years ago either. lol

rincon1 — March 11, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.

MMMM, must have been a significant change in milk then.... We made butter in science class in the 50's. a couple of kids taking turn for far less than "half a day".....

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Jim Moeller, Mike Briggs, Sir Basil, and every other Liberal who posts on The C are all the same person.*

roger — March 10, 2013 at 8:21 p.m

And think of all those departed - Ray, Bob, Jon, etc. - and the current conservo denizens.... Probably all one person also.

I'm assuming your post was as sarcastic as mine....

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 10:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sir Basil,

Actually, I was just hassling Nails. And in the past I once opined that you and frobert were the same person - waging a sort of schizo dual personality argument with yourself.

roger — March 11, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Gun control moms shed their fear, find their political voice**

They started out cautiously, afraid of attracting unwanted attention from their opponents, gun rights supporters like the National Rifle Association, who they knew were not only well-organized and well-funded, but armed.

But as the women who founded Connecticut's three chapters of One Million Moms for Gun Control watched their membership skyrocket, and witnessed 5,500 people turn out at last month's March for Change in Hartford, they abandoned their fear.

The One Million Moms group, founded the day after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, now claims 80,000 members in 80 chapters nationwide. Still largely made up of women, the group has even changed its name to the more muscular "Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America."

On Wednesday, 200 woment from 30 states will travel to Washington D.C. and discuss gun control with their legislators in an event dubbed "Moms Take the Hill." Additional groups will rally in Hartford the same day.

"I can't say it's unprecedented, but it's a remarkable moment," said Todd Gitlin, journalism and sociology professor at Columbia University. He should know. Gitlin was part of a culture-changing grassroots movement once himself. President of Students for a Democratic Society, or SDS, Gitlin helped organize national demonstrations against the Vietnam war.

The gun control advocates' passion and willingness to personally step up and make a difference puts them in the same camp as historic social movements, like the fight for civil rights, Gitlin said.

The difference today is that the Internet and social media enabled the gun control movement to grow at lightening speed.

Read more:

nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 10:40 a.m

Hmmm very clear you have never spent time on a farm then.

To make butter from fresh milked cow takes half + day.

You have to separate the cream from the milk, let culture to set up (about 3 to 5 hrs) then churn. So mr basil seal when you go milk a cow, separate the cream, culture it then churn it you tell me then if it takes half or more day to make butter.

They way you made it, you didn't make it with milk, you made it with heavy cream or whipping cream, most of the process in making butter was already done for you. All you had to do was shake the

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.

Then your 'mixer method' would take a half day also.

On the farm, I doubt you were/are sitting down and waiting for the milk to separate and culture....

Hence, a short bit of time in the churning. 60 years ago, a hundred, and now. Just as you stated in using a mixer

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.

Yea nail, that's the same group that's "up in arms" about the Geico commercial that has the pig and the girl in the car together, complaining that they are morally against the commercial and that it's in bad taste. After all, we all know that a young girl fooling around with a pig that talks can lead to some really bad things, especially in a convertible.

hawkeye — March 11, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 2:43 p.m

Mixer method one can use heavy cream or whipping cream....DUH!
No need to wait half the day for the cream to come to the top, or wait for culture to set. Not using RAW milk.
Do you actually read what others post or just see what you want and jump?

Talk about ill informed....geesh

Oh and by the way, why is it you stay silent until I begin to post, then out of the woodwork you come???
You stalking me or what???

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Misssster Basil, before spouting off what you think you know about churning butter, I'd suggest you take a look at the link I've provided. It clearly states the same length of time which ELISI has quoted regarding making butter from RAW milk (fresh-milked cow comment):

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

rincon1 — March 11, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.

If you go back and read ELISI's comment, she mentioned the timing of making butter, starting with the end product from a freshly-milked cow (aka raw milk). That also includes separating the cream which takes about a half day...and it includes getting the raw milk to come to a certain temperature so the cream separates properly. Then you have to harvest or skim the cream, then chill it before using the churn.

Nowadays, pasteurized heavy cream makes the best butter for those of us who don't have milk cows.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My God, some are actually arguing about how to make butter! :)))))


nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 11, 2013 at 2:56 p.m.

It looks to be a much different group. Maybe that's why they renamed themselves, "Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America."

nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A bit of a recap:

"*It only takes a few minutes to make butter with a mixer, 100 years ago one had to use a butter churn and took half a day to make, so yeah I like my "kitchen tools" ;)*"

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.

"100 years ago..." and now, one didn't sit and wait a half day for the milk to separate and culture; Plenty of other things to be doing. The 'mixer method' taking only a "few minutes" certainly doesn't include separating time. Hence, the 'mixer method' really takes about as much time as hand churning. ....

You are attempting to conflate two different things; how long the final mechanical process with the entire process.

Or as the old cookbook says; To prepare roast rabbit, first catch ....

Actually, I'd imagine that my crank churner, inherited from grandparents, is a bit quicker than a mixer given having been purposefully designed for the task.

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 9:22 a.m....So that's what you call it now...*"kitchen tools" as well as husband has his "mechanic, lawn, and wood working tools* uhh huh...wink wink

mxfun118 — March 11, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Actually, I'd imagine that my crank churner, inherited from grandparents, is a bit quicker than a mixer given having been purposefully designed for the task.*

mr_basil_seal — March 11, 2013 at 4:20 p.m

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Dream on..

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 5:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mxfun118 — March 11, 2013 at 4:39 p.m

LOL!!! wink wink back atcha!

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My God, some are actually arguing about how to make butter! :))))) sigh... nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 4:11 p.m.

Well, it's like this. You're right; this is a "bit different." However, it's also both interesting and educational. I've got an old wooden churn I found at a flohmarkt in Germany stashed in my garage somewhere - I just might have to drag it out and take up what appears to be an interesting pastime. Hmmmm.... Do llamas produce milk?

roger — March 11, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Mr Wallis is speaking at Citizen Forum now. Some of you have shown an interest in the subject of the building. Live on Channel 23 and livestreaming.

langenthal — March 11, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Hmmmm.... Do llamas produce milk?*

roger — March 11, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.

lololol....!!! How else would they feed their babies??? And yes, there are products out there which are made with llama milk...surprisingly. I thought it was a joke when I searched for information and found what I'd found...even pictures of llamas sporting cheese-head hats in Wisconsin.

Seriously, though...what I've read is that llama milk is lower in fat and it has a taste not everybody would find palatable...that is, unless you're a *cria.* Still smiling, though. I've got that picture of the llama cheesehead stuck in my mind, lolol.

goldenoldie — March 11, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

never made butter by starting at the source (so to speak). my son actually didn't believe me when i told him that cream, agitated enough, makes butter.

where DID i go wrong....>heavy sigh

DeeLittle — March 11, 2013 at 9:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 11, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - I found an article about llama's milk on the Livestrong website. Pros are higher protein, calcium, phosphorus and potassium. Con is higher lactose and limited supply. Sounds like a niche market - maybe at gyms and sporting good stores - they can build their bodies and "sweeten" the air at the same time.

Nails is just jealous of our entrepreneurial spirit. A lot of the stuff making it to the marketplace starts in brainstorming sessions like this.

And I'd say you've already come up with a name - Chia Dairy Products, Ltd.

roger — March 12, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 12, 2013 at 5:25 a.m.

Do you think we'd be able to obtain the rights to the commercial which sells those little animal figurines which grow grass on their heads??? Good Lord, another ridiculous commercial jingle stuck in my mind, now!!! Ch...Ch...Ch...Chi...well, you know what song I'm referring. (All in jest of course. I have to make sure now that I let people know ahead of time that I'm just joking since all I do is complain these days...8)..)

BTW roger, I've got a CRC comment of concern to share with you. I was reading the Columbian article about the County/CREDC split and saw the following comment which truly bothered me. It says -

*Thompson Metal Fab, Oregon Iron Works and Greenberry Industrial all stand to take a financial hit if the proposed I-5 Bridge replacement is built with 116 feet of headroom, as planned. The existing span connecting Vancouver and Portland offers as much as 178 feet of clearance when lifted.*

*To mitigate that impact, the CRC expects to pay all three manufacturers for lost earnings. Mitigation talks are under way. Bob Schaefer, an attorney for Thompson Metal Fab, said the company supports the CRC "in that we believe it's critical to the environment of this community." However, he said, the company believes the family-wage jobs it provides "are critical to the community."* concern is this. Do the CRC folks realize that the money they claim they'll pay all three manufacturers for lost earnings...would be coming from the taxpayers and that it shouldn't be their right to make such a decision? Seems to me this is a bit of bribery with the utilization of a nonexistent slush fund in the that isn't even secured for the project as of yet. There's a lot of promises...even votes by certain powers that be...but no definite money secured for the project. How easy would it be for these entities to say "oops, dinero today" and these three companies would be screwed over. The taxpayers...a triple whammy for sure.

I certainly hope the folks at Thompson Metal Fab, Oregon Iron Works and Greenberry Industrial are shrewd enough business leaders, to recognize just what it is the CRC folks are doing in order to get their pet project of light rail into our side of the river. That skunk is truly shooting it's stench FULL time on this project.

goldenoldie — March 12, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's another reason we shouldn't be in a hurry to get on board with Tri-Met.

Neil McFarlane gave raises out to the tune of a total of $910,000. This started in February of 2012. At the very same time he bemoaned the fact that they were running in the red and he supposedly froze pay raises. He hid those raises under 'contingencies'.

Tri-Met is facing a shortfall of $12,000,000 and counting. They will cut bus routes and increase fares to try and mitigate the bleeding.

Please read about this on the Oregonian's website. As my folks used to say McFarlane is a sneaky little s___ !!!

What really chaps me is that so many over here want to do business with these people. WHY !!! There is only one answer that I can see. Our leaders, who are for the LRT addition to the CRC project, are just the same on the inside.

I hope that the Washington legislation takes a good long look at the disclosure.

JohnCasey — March 12, 2013 at 7:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Another example of borrowed monies to pay for the CRC. That's borrowed money to be cleared by the State Treasurer. Whatever happened to paying in cash for anything any more???

*"In a ceremony set for this morning, Kitzhaber will sign House Bill 2800, which authorizes Oregon to borrow $450 million and pay its state share of the $3.4 billion CRC. The bill cleared both the state House and Senate earlier this year."*

*(Columbian article titled "Oregon governor to sign CRC funding bill")*

HB 2800:

goldenoldie — March 12, 2013 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — March 12, 2013 at 7:09 a.m.

Definitely a head shaker! Why anybody wants a transit entity with the migraines TriMet is experiencing, I'll never understand.

Whatever happened to working within your means to avoid financial ruin???

goldenoldie — March 12, 2013 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Dutch Catholic Girls Abused At Home, In Church**

AMSTERDAM -- A commission investigating **abuse of children** linked to Dutch Roman Catholic institutions says girls were **sexually abused by members of the clergy in their homes and in church**, while they suffered physical abuse and intimidation at the hands of nuns at homes for young women.

The report follows a previous study focused on boys, **which found boys were especially vulnerable to sexual abuse in boarding schools.**

The commission, led by former Hague mayor Wim Deetman, was funded by the Catholic church. In preliminary conclusions in December 2011 it estimated that up to **20,000 children were molested at Catholic boarding schools between 1945 and 2010, and "several tens of thousands" faced abuse of some kind.**

*Just a promise to leave our kids alone would be something.*

**Oath Sworn By Cardinals Before Papal Vote (FULL TEXT)**

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Nails is just jealous of our entrepreneurial spirit. A lot of the stuff making it to the marketplace starts in brainstorming sessions like this.*

roger — March 12, 2013 at 5:25 a.m.

Stop and rethink. Old goats milk has been around for .. ages. ;)

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Tell you what, Nails. We'll raise a herd eating nothing but pot leaves, and sell it as Old Goat Hemp Milk. NOW are you on board?

roger — March 12, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just when so many are out of work, business are shuttering their doors. Our dear elected elite seem to think they can tax us for $1 trillion more. Hang on to your pocketbooks people, we are in for a ride not seen since the great depression if these revenue seekers gets this passed.

**Patty Murray budget: $1 trillion in new revenue**

Sen. Patty Murray’s new budget plan calls for raising tax revenues by nearly $1 trillion while cutting spending by roughly the same amount over the next decade, according to people familiar with the proposal.

The Budget Committee chairwoman plans to brief fellow Democratic senators over the new proposal in a closed-door lunch Tuesday that President Barack Obama is also scheduled to attend. Committee deliberations will begin Wednesday, and the panel expects to vote on the plan Thursday before floor debate next week.

The plan is a non-binding blueprint that does not carry the force of the law, but it allows each party to lay out its vision and priorities for the coming fiscal year.

Democrats expect to remain largely united, and Murray anticipates having the support of the 11 other Democrats on her committee, giving her enough support to send the bill to the floor on a party-line basis.

But the tax figure could present a problem for a handful of red-state Democrats up for reelection who Republicans will undoubtedly say are supporting a $1 trillion tax hike if they back the plan.

Nevertheless, Democratic leaders believe the Murray plan will allow their party to show a major contrast with Rep. Paul Ryan’s budget and its calls for a significant overhaul of Medicare. And they expect to have the support of at least 50 Democrats on the floor to ensure they would be able to pass the first budget out of the Senate in four years.

The Murray plan would not balance the budget in a 10-year timeframe like the Ryan proposal would. But Murray’s 50-50 split between taxes and spending is supposed to be consistent with Obama’s call for a “balanced” approach for deficit reduction, something they argue voters largely support rather than the cuts-only approach backed by Republicans. Obama plans to unveil his budget plan after Congress begins to debate the competing proposals, something that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said would “drop a bomb” on the budget process.

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 12, 2013 at 6:29 a.m.

The CRC is complaining because they say it will cost $279 million to raise the bridge to 125 feet - that's way too much!!! Then they turn around and opine that paying $200 million in mitigation to Thompsons and two other companies is the cost of progress. Last I saw, Thompsons has countered with that they want relocated "somewhere in Clark County on the other side of the bridge" as mitigation - no idea what that would cost, but....

roger — March 12, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holy cow and the people re-elected this sicko????????????

**Revolting Assemblyman Vito Lopez dreamed of living in a place where he could legally bed underage girls:**

The beseiged 71-year-old former Brooklyn Democratic Party boss has been accused of sexually harassing interns in his Assembly office, even suggesting that one of his office hands dress sexier — like his former 14-year-old intern, according to sources.

Pervy Assemblyman Vito Lopez found a 14-year-old intern so sexy that he fantasized aloud about living in a state where it was legal to sleep with underage girls, a source told the Daily News.

After ogling the girl, the 71-year-old Brooklyn Democrat relayed his twisted lament over New York’s statutory rape laws to least one person from his district office, the source said.

The creepy comment comes to light days after the Daily News revealed that the mother of a Lopez staffer called the police after he told the staffer she should dress sexier — like the teenage intern.

“It just gets more and more horrifying with this guy,” said one insider. “God only knows what’s inside that (state ethics commission) report” on Lopez.

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- It depends on whose processing it. Some of your underlings already leave a bad taste in the mouths of many.


Douglas Green and Ed Ruttledge absolutely nail it.

Some just like to watch the world burn and bring down as many as they can.

Isn't it great jobs are the main focus of our elected? ;(

Anyone ask Madore how old he thinks the earth is yet?

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

On another note..

Anyone else notice that some of the spring bird are starting to arrive in our yards?

I've noticed the house sparrows, steller-jays, house finches, junoes, nuthatches and bush-tits. I haven't seen a robin, towhee or a thrush yet, but did see a humming bird on Saturday.

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 12, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

Whatever floats your boat.

Keep chummin' the crazy old conservs or they'll give you the boot! ;))

It's a bummer when obstructionists like Madore get elected to do one thing. Obstruct.

Again a small minority of seniors are holding up jobs and progress for our County.

Somebody wake these guys up and tell em' it's no longer 2010 and the black guy has four more years.

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The mating pair of red-tail hawks have returned to the pine trees in the park across from my home. They share the area with an owl.
On warm summers nights the owl comes out and sits on the fence around the park, on a neighbors and our fence. Unbelievable the wing span is on this owl!

Last year we didn't get any land gulls so the flocks of crows pretty much left the area. But I am sure the crows will be back in force this year. They seem to get their jollies dive bombing the squirrels and smaller birds.

Squirrels around here vary year to year, some we see tons other years not many. This year we have seen very few. I use to feed the squirrels and had as many as 50 in the yard, but they started chewing up our deck and fence and when they started chewing on the roof we had to stop feeding them. So now if I feed the squirrels I take food and put it around the pines at the park.

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: This one's directed to you:

Rumor has it that the Koch Broz are angling to buy the Los Angeles Times.


Newspapers are already turning into propaganda machines to stay afloat. Why not just have them all controlled by one cartel?

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- If rumors are true the Koch's efforts reach even further.

But I'll take the "whole dollop" at this point and hope for the best. Their efforts attempting to buy the 2012 elections didn't fair well for them.

I wonder if they're Cub fans? (I remember some time back your allegiance to the Sox, either way, may the Gods of journalistic integrity smite them!:)

[Multiple sources tell L.A. Weekly that Charles and David Koch -- the infamous right-wing billionaire brothers -- are considering an offer on either the Tribune Co. newspaper group, which includes the L.A. Times, the Chicago Tribune and the Baltimore Sun or the entire Tribune Co., which includes more than 20 stations like WGN and KTLA Channel 5.

Now, these are unverified rumors that should be taken with a grain of salt if not a whole dollop.]

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Where's Tom Hanks when you need him? Barnum & Bailey?**

*Black smoke from chapel chimney: No pope yet*

**A group of women who say they are priests launched pink smoke from a balcony overlooking the square to demand female ordination**—a play on the famous smoke signals that will tell the world whether a pope has been elected. **Two topless activists from Femen were dragged away** from the edge of St. Peter's Square by police. Femen activists have previously protested the Vatican's opposition to gay marriage.

And in a bizarre twist, **basketball star Dennis Rodman promised to be in St. Peter's Square on Wednesday in a makeshift popemobile as he campaigns for Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana to become the church's first black pope.**

Read more: Black smoke from chapel chimney: No pope yet - The Denver Post

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 11:52 a.m

There are laws against owning too many media outlets in a single market.

Of course, how smart could they be if they are going to buy a dieing business.

hawkeye — March 12, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My cats are also enjoying that the birds are back. They're lousy hunters and have never caught one, but they keep trying. The only kill I've seen was a dragonfly - a prodigious leap from the patio table, snatching the beastie out of the air, and hitting the ground rolling while administering the coup de grace. Impressive!

roger — March 12, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There are laws against owning too many media outlets in a single market.

Of course, how smart could they be if they are going to buy a dieing business.

hawkeye — March 12, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.

I'm sure they would push the laws to the limit and then some. My thought is the same with the business investment, yet these two have money to burn. Also if the Times acquired that good ol' Koch Bro corporatocracy/socialization slant it would lose lose credibility and more declining readership. (Maybe that's their idea. Buy it, pillage it and dump it Romney style)

Yet that hasn't stopped Fox/Murdoch. It's about viewer/readership. If you coalesce enough people with conservative thought and repeat everyday the rest of the world is wrong.....while the average of viewership is 65+...... one could deem the Fox News faithful a cult and be spot on.

Anyone seen the Ryan budget yet? :))) I can tell Fox is already out front on this!

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.

So politically driven billionaire liberals like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros and Michael Bloomberg can own media outlets, but the Koch brothers owning one is a problem?

frobert — March 12, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert: For goodness, sake. I hate opinion-as-news from any side. I am evangelical about it. Fair. Balance. Accurate. Where did it go? I really don't like the polarizing fights that folks seem so damned bent on perpetuating here. Peace, bro.


Clark County is losing John Wiesman to Jay Inslee's cabinet. Oh, what a loss. For years,I knew it was just a matter of time. So smart. So compassionate. He put up with Mielke's crazy questions so respectfully. Really, folks. We have lost a gem and he will never look back.

I also know that the City of Vancouver is having a brain drain, too.

Any thoughts?

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 3:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just got back into town, GO Elsie did not make the statement of from milking to end product. When it was my job to churn the butter, we got it from the neibhor in gallon jugs. The cream had already risen, I just skimmed it off the top. Didn't take that long. Half hour to 45 min. Yes, it took longer when I did the milking. Never did use a cream separator.

rincon1 — March 12, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — March 12, 2013 at 2:39 p.m

and to think frobert, I used to read Mother Jones until I found out Soros has his dirty hands on it also!

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 4:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

rincon1 — March 12, 2013 at 4:21 p.m

Go back and read my post at:

ELISI — March 11, 2013 at 2:19 p.m

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Paul Ryan Has Learned Nothing From His Loss**

Paul Ryan has released his new budget proposal, "The Path to Prosperity." It looks almost exactly like his old budget proposal. Really—go back and read the article I wrote one year ago, when the Wisconsin congressman introduced his budget proposal for the 2013 fiscal year, which he also called "The Path to Prosperity.” I said that proposal would take health insurance away from tens of millions of people, that it would starve government of resources to conduct everyday business, that it would take vital support away from low-income Americans, and that its promise of deficit reduction was illusory. Every one of those descriptions is equally valid today.

That tells us a lot about Ryan’s priorities—and how little interest he and his allies have in moderating their views, even though the public rejected them last year.1 Imagine Walter Mondale returning to Congress in 1985 and proposing a budget that undid President Reagan's agenda and reduced deficits by raising taxes on the middle class—in other words, the exact same thing he’d proposed in his losing campaign for the presidency. That will give you some idea of what Ryan is proposing, although Mondale's proposals didn't require the same rhetorical and mathematical games to show budget savings.

The headline Ryan wants you to read is that he's proposing to balance the budget by 2023—that is, a decade from now. Unless the analysts I consulted are missing something, as sometimes happens, this promise does not mean much. Ryan wants to simplify individual income taxes with just two rates: 25 percent and 10 percent. But lowering rates severely reduces the government’s revenue. To achieve the deficit reduction Ryan has in mind, and lower rates as he's proposing, Ryan proposes to "simplify" the tax code, which is a euphemism for closing loopholes. But he doesn’t specify which loopholes he would close—perhaps because he couldn’t achieve the savings he needs without closing loopholes that would affect the middle class. 

You may recall that the Romney-Ryan campaign agenda had a similar proposal, for lower rates offset by fewer loopholes, which analysts widely panned as mathematically unrealistic. Ryan's budget may be even less credible, because it would cut taxes from a higher level (the highest rate is now 39 percent, rather than 35, because of the January tax deal) and to a lower level (Romney's proposal reduced higher rates to 28 percent, not 25).2

Read more @

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

frobert — March 12, 2013 at 2:39 p.m

I think it's really funny that I make a simple statement and Frobot takes it as an attack on one of his heroes.

Now what's that say about fro.

hawkeye — March 12, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

One of the cool aspects of the forum is that one gets exposed to all kinds of weird stuff! The right *always* has a boogie man or two to keep their .. faithful in line. Only in America.

**Beck's bizarre, dangerous hit at Soros**

New York -- Creepy medieval puppets hung from the ceiling on the set of the "Glenn Beck Program" -- a conquistador, a squire, a witch, and a bearded guy who looked like a cross between Santa Claus and the Fiddler on the Roof.

"Make no mistake, we are watching a show," Beck gravely told his audience. That much was obvious enough, but Beck did not mean his own television program. "You have to see who's behind the puppets," he continued, "Who is choosing the puppets and the players? Who's the puppetmaster? George Soros."

**George Soros Is REALLY George Schwartz And 10 More Terrifying Things We Learned From Glenn Beck's Expose**

Read more:

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Elizabeth Warren Blasts Senate Republicans For Holding Up CFPB Nomination**

Elizabeth Warren may be glad she didn't end up running the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, because in her consolation job as a U.S. senator, she gets to openly speak her mind about it.

And speak her mind she did at Tuesday's Senate Banking Committee hearing on the nominations of Richard Cordray to head the CFPB and Mary Jo White to head the Securities and Exchange Commission. Sen. Warren (D-Mass.) had no questions for Cordray, noting he had already testified before the panel a dozen times. Instead, she blasted a series of questions at the Senate Republicans holding Cordray's nomination hostage while they try to weaken the new agency's power, and wrapped up with a rebuke:

"I see nothing here but a filibuster threat against Director Cordray as an attempt to weaken the consumer agency," Warren said. "I think the delay in getting him confirmed is bad for consumers, it's bad for small banks, bad for credit unions, for anyone trying to offer an honest product in an honest market."

"The American people deserve a Congress that worries less about helping big banks," she added, "and more about helping regular people who have been cheated on mortgages, on credit cards, on student loans and on credit reports."

nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 12, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

I don't recall responding to any of your posts recently.

I certainly did not take your post as an attack on the Koch brothers, just mistaken. The Koch bothers have a long history of purchasing "dying" companies and turning them around.

frobert — March 12, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.

You are the one that originally posted a polarizing comment, I merely pointed out your hypocrisy.

frobert — March 12, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm involved in a discussion with some old friends back east who are looking forward to the new Hendrix release. I'm going old school on them. My #1 Hendrix tune ---

roger — March 12, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**ELISE et al**

i'm also a nature-watcher. i didn't get a 'toys' phase, but watching the seagulls running after sandcrabs at santa monica beach was free.

i've already gotten two visits from the blue heron that uses my pond as a rest stop.

the ducks are looking for nesting places, and the trees are beginning to turn to green sticks instead of gray.

don't know the names of most bids yet, but i still love to see them...the little ones shaped like feathered raindrops, the blue ones, the red-bellied ones...and the ospry that always comes and sits in the tallest tree next to the pond.

i love spring.


DeeLittle — March 12, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

David Madore is going to micromanage this county into the ground. Is he worried that Fido and Garfield over at the Human Society are pro light rail animals?

Really, anyone who can market themselves elsewhere is packing up and leaving this burgh. It's like the writing is on the wall: if you are innovative, smart, get outta here. Who will want to partner with Clark County anymore? But maybe that is the point: run all the partnerships down and shutter the place up. That will save money.

I really think the The Columbian needs to look into the high rate of turnover at both the county .and the city right now. It's like someone knows a secret and there is a mass exodus off the sinking ship.

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 11:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 12, 2013 at 11:07 p.m.

Just what business's are packing up and leaving?

kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 12:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou- At least we have a trade off.

On one hand we have a conservative movement who opposes spending $$$ to improve Vancouver in any way shape or form. From transportation to schools to ballparks even basic upkeep for our parks and rec dept. To some a vacant lot means progress.

On the other hand, we can thank our local conservative friends for ensuring our town and state are a safe haven for those who can't pass a background check to own firearms.

I'm more than thankful I don't live in a Republican controlled state like Kansas, Nebraska, Arizona and others. What we're seeing is a tiny glimpse of limited conservative power.

If not for anything else, our local conservatives will motivate folks to vote in 2014.

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 12:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- You know I hafta weigh in. :) If I had to pick it would be Hear My Train A Comin' from his 1970 Berkeley show. (first night) I'm having it played for my funeral. Insane soulful shredding and imo nothing rivals it in both soul and sound.

Another huge favorite (2nd?) is Machine Gun from Band of Gypsys. Amazing, nuts, insane, godly whatever. If a heaven has music...when he strokes his G string @ 3:58 it's been known to make grown men cry.

Neither recording is captured live in it's entirety on video that I know of. Jimi plays Berkeley (DVD) 2012 captures most (I've read) of 'Hear My Train'. The earlier DVD version (which I have) butchers it up and makes me want to throw something.

I first met this version (Berkeley) of Hear My Train A Comin' when it was released on 'Rainbow Bridge" back when I was a young buck. I've been in love ever since.

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 1:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - All good stuff! I've still got boxes of LPs stashed in my garage - Rainbow bridge is there. Also Hendrix In The West - Wasn't that from the Berkeley show too? Or maybe from the Fillmore concert, which also had its good spots. Whatever - I suppose some day I'll have to hook all the stereo equipment back up and play these like they're meant to be heard - loud, with crackling and all.

roger — March 13, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh good Lord, the ignorance of a few of you here on the forum never ceases to amaze me.

Case in Point #1, businesses leaving Clark Co:

Number One...Businesses haven't just packed up and left in recent years...they've folded, too. Any who are planning on leaving any time soon are doing so BECAUSE they've received a better offer from the region they sought.

Number Two...Did you forget the economy tanked in recent years and hasn't recovered here in our region, but the powers that be are still creatively finding ways to bilk the taxpayers out of yet more money because of their reckless spending habits??? Did you forget how many years it's been since our state has had a Republican Governor??? What does Clark County have to show for all those property tax, fuel tax, sales tax and other tax increases AND fees we've experienced in the past 20 years?

Number Three...It takes politicians from BOTH SIDES to reach an agreement. To blame just one side of the ticket is just plain ludicrous.

Case in Point #2: George Soros

A brilliant person...brilliant to the point of self-indulgent insanity. He's only in it for ego trip like never seen before and he'll stop at nothing to take someone down if it means benefiting his own personal gains. The least bit of charitable work is strictly a front to mask his number one personal agenda. Anybody who thinks otherwise about him is nothing more than a fool of all fools.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

Probably much like their parents when they wake up and realize they've wasted their lives for so many years and are in debt up to the Yin Yang...

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, ELISI, holyc.,

Regarding the wildlife...

I've had Townsend's warblers, varied thrushes, bushtits, goldfinches who now are starting to show signs of the bright lemon yellow coming back in their feathers, Sharp-shinned hawks..even the raccoons visiting my feeders. The hummingbirds have been here all winter with their wonderful scarlet plumage around their faces. Those little buggars let me know when it's time to change the water. They literally hover in front of our patio window, looking in. It's fun watching them chase each other in order to gain that perfect drinking spot on the feeders...the dominance thing. And the Robins??? Seems every time we've had those cold snaps, we've got a dozen or so singing away in our yard...including one with extra white plumage on his tail. We too have had the jays most of the winter.

It's been rather mild for us. Methinks we're looking at a long, dry spell this year. For those of you with a vegetable garden, prepare your garden accordingly.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh yeah...and the house wrens are singing the most wonderful whistling song and are dancing around on our patio, looking for anything and everything. Also have the nuthatches, a red-headed woodpecker which BTW is a rarity, downy woodpeckers and of course, flickers. Dang, those flickers are huge!!! We also have the chestnut-backed chickadees, black-capped chickadees and had a treat with visits from some mountain chickadees.

DeeLittle, might I suggest you check out the *National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Birds, Western Region* at the local library. You'll be surprised at what you have coming to your pond!!!

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone know what they have planned for where Cascade Greenhouse stood on 112th?

Been a couple months since I was by there and noticed yesterday the entire property has been leveled. Heavy equipment sits and soil run off skirting is up.

Also noticed the complex around Safeway is all but empty.
A few businesses still hanging on.

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc, I wish you good luck with the banana shoot sales. In all my live, I never thought bananas could grow well here in the PNW...and even though they have managed to develop a banana for temperate climates, I believe this too could be a sign of our changing climates, here.

Regarding Washington State and Colorado...yeah, the two states have the market due to marijuana laws, but I'm sure you know as well as I that the only way the Feds will allow it is if Monsanto has their control on the plant industry and Big Pharma and the FDA instill rules and regulations as well as increased inspections in order to maintain "clean" marijuana. Too many irons in the pot can and most likely will lead to "dirty" pot...insecticides, herbicides and the ingestion of the byproducts. Maybe there will be a booming economic factor but I'm afraid the ones who will profit will be the aforementioned groups. Another group who will benefit....our state government.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI, I drove by there in recent days and saw a sign posted. It's going to be a retirement community, much like the one across the street. As far as Cascade Greenhouse is concerned, it's a bit north of Fourth Plain next to the historic Orchards Feed Mill. They're set to open I think in May but by the way things look right now...I'm wondering if they'll make their deadline date.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: It is not businesses that I know of, but personnel at the county and city who are leaving. It is worth asking the question, why?

Are they worried about more cuts? Are they disgusted with the elected officials? Are they facing more scrutiny and accountability and are getting out of Dodge before they get into hot water?

Those are the questions that may not be able to be answered. But I do know that the city, for instance, has a higher-than-usual exit rate right now, especially in management. They lost a city attorney, the HR director to Lacey WA, the assistant HR director and police chief for starters.

manthou — March 13, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding my descriptive of the birds...thanks for the compliment. I wanted to add that to attract more variety of birds to your living space, you don't necessarily have to hang up a bunch of feeders. That can lead to the encroachment of critters such as possums, rats, mice and skunks. One of the best ways to attract birds is by naturescaping...the planting of native shrubs, grasses, vines and trees (for those who live in a house) which the birds will visit at peak times of the year, including middle of the winter. Also, Dee has shared what she has witnessed by her pond which proves that a water feature is a good addition. Something in the way of a bird bath or fountain feature is a plus.

Some of the ideas can also be incorporated into condo living...hummingbird feeder, potted plants, bird feeder, hanging bird bath, etc.

Just my two-cents worth this morning from a seasoned wildlife habitat steward.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I hope that the U.S. Coast Guard will do the right thing and tell the CRC that the height of the bridge as currently designed is too low to facilitate the river traffic. If the current bridge can provide 175' clearance then what were they thinking?? That's a rhetorical question as we all know that answer. The weight support towers are even higher so the question of flight path clearance is not a problem. The new bridge can go higher without interference. All they have to do is drop that fool LOO-RAIL and all will be good !!!

I don't particularly like Lew Waters. In this instance I do have to agree with him on having a federal investigation on the CRC dealings.

JohnCasey — March 13, 2013 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Are they worried about more cuts? Are they disgusted with the elected officials? Are they facing more scrutiny and accountability and are getting out of Dodge before they get into hot water?*

manthou — March 13, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.

My thoughts...if I may -

Methinks they're tired of the bull hockey they're dealing with...especially when they see the uncontrolled spending habits with nothing to show by those with seniority; have made the suggestions to change and was heard over deaf ears (cliche' I know); have seen things and for some reason only they know, they could not blow the whistle on; know their jobs are on the line; are just plain FED UP!

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — March 13, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.

Lew hit it right...and he's not the only one who's been saying there needs to be an investigation. It must be an independent investigation with no political ties, though. Whether we want to believe it or not, this project has political divisions. One side wants light rail...for various reasons including the concept of cleaner air, the other side doesn't want light rail for various reasons including the needless spending. It's easy to say which side is which, although there are folks from all walks of life, all differing political views who would agree with concepts from both sides and are divided on their decision...but what it all boils down to is the reasoning for the crossing...for TRAFFIC MOBILITY and smoother FREIGHT TRANSIT which includes river freight as well.

As it stands now, the only reason why Kitzhaber signed the approval was because it benefits Oregon in the manner of future federal funding grants. If he was so adamant about light rail, then why is it Salem doesn't have light rail yet? It's part of TriMet's original transit vision of the future.

I'm wondering...

If the tables were turned and it was C-Tran who had light rail and wanted to extend it into Portland instead of TriMet, would Governor Kitzhaber have been so quick to sign that approval???

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 8:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: My suspicions exactly.

From a lifetime of personal working experience, you sometimes leave because your poor head is nothing but a pulp from bashing it against that proverbial brick wall every day. Personally, I retired early because of the Tom Foolery of a weak and dangerous administration: playing with legal and ethical fire and I wanted no part of it because I was powerless to make any impact on it. To continue perpetuating the program makes you complicit: a partner in the crime in exchange for a paycheck.

Those whethicalo can, leave. Those who can't, suffer.

manthou — March 13, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**The Republican fantasy**

*Paul Ryan's new budget plan reveals how the GOP sees the world, in four easy steps*

One of the ways to differentiate liberals and conservatives today is to consider their respective caricatured sci-fi visions of the future. In cartoon terms, the liberal caricature is a “we’re all in this together” utopia of communitarian kumbaya, while the conservative caricature is basically “Back to the Future II” — a Biff Tannen-dominated dystopia of moral and economic decay whose only unifying ethos is thinking of — and violently protecting — oneself. Thus, liberals generally support stuff like universal social insurance and the social safety net, while conservatives tend to get fired up against gun control, taxes and a social safety net, and for massive military budgets.

Here are the four big takeaways from that budget, and how they illustrate the Republicans’ larger worldview.

1. A recommitment to the Military State: One of the few good things to come out of the sequestration fight has been a long-overdue debate over Pentagon profligacy in specific and American militarism in general. Indeed, even though the sequestration cuts are so small they still leave the Pentagon budget bigger in real dollars than it was during most of the height of the Cold War, the prospect of any cuts at all seemed to hold out the possibility of a larger reevaluation of the centrality of the Pentagon in national life. That possibility seemed especially real considering the fact that the allegedly deficit-focused GOP had recently been shamed into supporting some of those cuts.

2. Austerity for Most, Corporate Welfare for a Few:: Ryan’s budget purports to save $5.7 trillion over the next decade. But because the GOP’s dystopian vision of the future is one with almost no safety net, the cuts are not broad — they are targeted at social programs.

3. Strengthening the Health Insurance Industry Cartel: Whether it’s “Back to the Future II,” “Robocop” “Total Recall” or any of the dystopian sci-fi classics, private corporations run everything. As evidenced by his Medicare proposal, that’s consistent with Ryan and the House GOP’s vision for the healthcare economy in America.

4. Tax Cuts for the Rich, Tax Increases for Most Others: In the dystopian sci-fi future, billionaires are the “makers” and everyone else are the “takers.” Thus, following the ethos articulated in Mitt Romney’s infamous 47 percent speech, Ryan and the House GOP propose to further reward the former and punish the latter. Specifically, at a time when corporate profits are skyrocketing and in a nation with one of the lowest effective corporate tax rates in the world, they propose a huge cut in the corporate tax rate. They also propose to do away with the seven-tiered progressive income tax, and replace it with a two-tiered one with brackets of 10 percent and 25 percent.

Read more @

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks for letting me know about Cascade Greenhouse's property.

My bird bath by my front door bring many different birds from spring thru the fall time. It also brings little frogs. Love hearing them sound off at night, reminds me of when I'd spent some summers on my grandparents farms.

One thing you have to remember with bird baths is to change the water daily to every other day or you'll end up with mosquitoes.

I also have butterfly bushes to bring in butterflies, bee balm plants and lavender to bring bees.

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal took a local business leader to spend his own cash to launch an independent investigation into the handling of CRC funds in preparation for a final design...the same business leader who saw the very same thing we've been discussing for how many years...

...and he took the initiative to stand up for the betterment of this project by the local business leader who decided to run for a position as commissioner of Clark County - the same business leader who WON the vote of the people because of the issues behind the crossing project and who represents it and how it's been handled thus far.

The USCG had originally given a height minimum on the crossing project which the CRC blatantly ignored while doing their studies.

Voters also brought in Ms. Herrera Beutler and have re-elected her for various, being her stance on the crossing project. She wants the crossing, but she wants to make sure it is what the people of the region can agree to and can afford. She has sent letters to Ms. Boyd, Director of the CRC, highlighting over $85 million in expenditure requests which have absolutely nothing to do with the crossing project itself as well as an overpayment on the environmental impact studies of well over $81 million. With three other political leaders, she has sent a letter to the commander of the USCG with obvious concerns reflecting what those of us have been saying for quite some time. She's doing her job which the voters expected of her.

Shouldn't that be a clear sign as to how the folks of Clark County feel about the current Columbia River Crossing Project and why the majority is up in arms about it? The tax vote (third one, BTW) was another statement by the people of the county, yet folks who support the current design are in denial that there's a problem.

Yeah....go figure.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.

Ooooh....I was out on my patio this morning and heard the little peepers!!! A definite sign of spring!!! Don't ya just love it!!!

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 12, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
nailingit — March 12, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.
goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.

Seems rather odd of Beck and sycophants to ascribe such influence to Soros; esp on looking at the list ( and noticing the social activism and/or influences in critical markets of many with similar money at their disposal....

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

These guys aren't serious about governing or America's future. Featured speakers to include Trump, Palin, Allen West & other bigoted behind the times fanatics out looking to make a buck off their aging ill informed constituency.

**Heresy Hunters Rule CPAC, and GOProud, Chris Christie Need Not Apply**

*Ideological purity! Patriots only! The heresy hunters of this week’s Conservative Political Action Conference sniffed out and rejected those who aren’t ‘suitably’ right wing, like Chris Christie and GOProud. It’ll ensure the same losing result, writes Michael Moynihan.*

The instinct that there is something rotten—or at least broken—in modern conservatism isn’t limited to those on the party’s socially liberal, libertarian-leaning wing. In The American Conservative, Rod Dreher wrote recently that “even though I’m a middle-aged, churchgoing white right-winger who has not the slightest attraction to liberalism, I increasingly don’t want to be associated with what ‘conservative’ means here and now.” A number of conservative journalists I spoke with expressed similar dissatisfaction with the state of “the movement,” all chuckling when asked if they would be attending CPAC. Too many kooks, said one. Too much Gingrich and Trump, said another.

It’s funny, then, to see a panel discussion celebrating the legacy of sainted conservative intellectual William F. Buckley, a man who not only purged bonkers conspiracists like the John Birch Society but edited a magazine that openly and robustly debated gay rights. A 1978 article excoriated Pat Buchanan’s homophobia and the “irrational” conservative fear of homosexuality; a 1986 cover story was succinctly titled “A Conservative Speaks Out for Gay Rights.”

But here we are, in 2013, and conservatism’s biggest gathering wants to ensure that the Republican Party maintains ideological purity and the ability to consistently lose elections.

Read more @

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Misssster Basil, it's not just the Forbes-400 list this elite group has in common, but I"m sure you're already aware of that. You are, aren't you?

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"ignoring user" engaged Not going to argue with a troll any longer. Have a blessed day! *click*

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:02 a.m

ELISI, when I put in my birdbath, I plumbed it in to a low pressure line and timer to a faucet. I ran a small hose up the middle of it to a drip system sprayer. After the last frost, I turn it on and it has it's own fountain and uses very little water, keeps the birdbath full and the mosquitoes away. I suppose you could also do the same thing with an electric pump but they tend to plug up a little. The birds seem to love it, they splash in it all day.

hawkeye — March 13, 2013 at 9:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Golden, love the sounds they make! Only thing they seem to like to jump and stick to the glass on the storm door and my front window. Them and slugs..leave a nasty film

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

*Seems rather odd of Beck and sycophants to ascribe such influence to Soros;*


But why not keep sending them (Beck & others) money to fight this scourge of evil named Soros? ;)

I never hear about him (since 2010) unless one of our old forum conspiracists brings him up.

I think most have moved on from this type of silliness.


nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.

Do tell.....

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 13, 2013 at 9:27 a.m

I have a bronze metal birth bath in front, a cement one in the back, might be able to do that with the cement one but wonder if it could be done with the metal one.

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Can This Taco Save America?**
by Daniel Gross Mar 12, 2013

Taco Bell sold a million Doritos Locos Tacos a day last year—and hired 15,000 new people. Daniel Gross on how the chain’s most bizarre meal yet is upending American economics.

For much of the past year, analysts have claimed that a host of political factors are inhibiting hiring—regulation, the fiscal cliff, the sequester, the debt ceiling, the reelection of a socialist.

Powerful forces, indeed.

But there’s another force at work—more powerful, more ubiquitous, and arguably more delicious: Doritos Locos Tacos. The neon-orange, meat-filled miracle taco, wrapped in a Nacho Cheese Dorito shell, was Taco Bell’s biggest hit of 2012, with 375 million sold, or roughly one million a day. It was largely responsible for the chain’s incredible growth, outpacing not just KFC and Pizza Hut, but even McDonald’s.

“It has been the biggest launch in Taco Bell history,” said Greg Creed, chief executive officer of Taco Bell, which saw same-store sales rise 8 percent in 2012. “Last year, we added 15,000 people to handle the growth.”

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I took your comment of 11:07 p.m. Manthou, to mean that Madore is causing an exodus.

However, your comment of 8:34 a.m. is interesting in that it suggests the possibility of more scrutiny.

In any event:

> By contrast, government employment, which increased by 400 jobs over the year, “finally appears to have hit bottom and turned upward, although more cuts in state government later this year are possible,” Bailey wrote in his Southwest Washington Labor Market News analysis.



kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:20 a.m

Fresh, warm, by hand, with fresh from the chickens eggs, brioche - with hand churned butter, home-hived honey, and a bit of from the garden strawberry jam......

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

No, kn-dalai: Not Mr. Madore specifically, although he certainly has some of the administration nervous. He is a mixed bag for me. He is sincere and wants to help his base get their voices heard. Not a bad thing. In his advocacy, I worry about him getting the county into big legal trouble with breaches of contracts. I guess he is on a learning curve.

In general (and this is just my anecdotal perspective as a person who worked for the state for the last years of my career), administrators are getting the heat put on them for the first time in their careers. This is good. But they don't know how to deal with the sudden expectation of accountability and true transparency. So they are leaving, or holding their breath, hoping they can continue to fly under the radar for a little bit longer.

Those of us who had no administrative power and have to perpetuate their gaffes and cover for them, feel a little dirty. So we leave, too.

manthou — March 13, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One of 12 points, and this point has a loose fit to manthou's 9:53 a.m post

**Everything You Need to Know About Global Warming in 5 Minutes**

8) A special word on the right-leaning think tanks: As libertarians, they abhor the need for government spending or even governmental leadership, which in their opinion is best left to private enterprise. In general, this may be an excellent idea. But global warming is a classic tragedy of the commons – seeking your own individual advantage, for once, does not lead to the common good, and the problem desperately needs government leadership and regulation. Sensing this, these think tanks have allowed their drive for desirable policy to trump science. Not a good idea.

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Good comments Manthou. I appreciate your perspective on what’s going on in government circles.

As far a Madore goes, he has been successful in the private sector, and whatever some may think of him; he’s not stupid. I would think it’s unlikely that he doesn’t understand breach of contract. It may be that he is displaying some Maverick in him, and is willing to take some calculated, albeit, unorthodox risks.

kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Blessings of Low Taxes Remain Unproved**
By EDUARDO PORTER March 12, 2013


Problem is, there is little evidence that tax cutting has worked as advertised.

Thomas L. Hungerford, an economist with the Congressional Research Service, got into trouble with Republicans last year when he published a study suggesting that the sharp drop in top tax rates since 1945 did little to lift economic growth but probably did contribute to soaring income inequality.

And there’s no clear evidence that lower tax burdens have helped the United States grow faster than other advanced industrial nations with higher tax rates and much heavier tax burdens. Economic growth per person in the United States was a little faster than in France or Australia over the last 40 years. But it was a little slower than in Austria, Germany and the Netherlands, according to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a research organization for the world’s richest countries.

While high taxes do have an effect on variables that affect growth, many other factors are much more significant and overshadow whatever taxes do.


mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wasn't Beck promoting......

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've got good news and bad news.....

Sounds like we're going to have to wait until we get the bill to find out what health insurance is going to cost as of Jan 1. Even so so-called experts are clueless. Doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.;=20130313&id;=16230977

mrd — March 13, 2013 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Don’t look for Madore to ever leave town in shame. He was very much against light rail, and was always up front about that. He’s dealing with some entrenched factions, and is not shy about it. He’s bringing what he can to bear on the issue. Other than that, I really don’t know what you mean by “everything he represents”. No, he’s not a Leftist, but the country is pretty evenly divided between the two major parties.

That light rail issue first came up more years ago than I care to remember. The Vancouver Chamber of Commerce eventually came out in favor, but it was very contentious. I almost quite my business membership with the chamber over that back then.

The more I’ve seen of this light rail boondoggle, the more rottener and rottener it has become.

kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Hey gang, two things before I start doing yard work today, hopefully it will not rain...*

holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 11:51 a.m.

Just did the yard, showered & relaxing. It's nice to have it done. Great weather for it.

It's special how much easier yard work becomes as we grow older. :} Awful damn special...


I sit down and Holy Pederolly! The Vatican has delivered unto us a new Pope!

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*A 76 year old third world conservative Pope. It looks like business as usual or a step backward.*

**Argentina's Bergoglio elected as new pope**

By Philip Pullella and Barry Moody
VATICAN CITY | Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:58pm EDT

(Reuters) - Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina was elected in a surprise choice to be the new leader of the troubled Roman Catholic Church on Wednesday, and said he would take the name Francis I.

Pope Francis, 76, appeared on the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica just over an hour after white smoke poured from a chimney on the roof of the Sistine Chapel to signal he had been chosen to lead the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics.

The choice of Bergoglio was announced by French cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran with the Latin words "Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum. Habemus Papam" ("I announce to you a great joy. We have a pope"

Francis becomes the 266th pontiff in the Church's 2,000-year history at a time of great crisis and difficulty. Although a conservative he is seen as a reformer and was not among the small group of frontrunners identified before the election.

He also went against one of the main assumptions before the election, that the new pope would be relatively young.

He is the oldest of most of the possible candidates and was barely mentioned in feverish speculation about the top contenders before the conclave.


He is the first Jesuit to become pope.

The decision by 115 cardinal electors sequestered in a secret conclave in the Sistine Chapel came sooner than many experts expected because there were several frontrunners before the vote to replace Pope Benedict, who resigned in February.

The cardinals faced a thorny task in finding a leader capable of overcoming crises caused by priestly child abuse and a leak of secret papal documents that uncovered corruption and rivalry inside the Church government or Curia.

The wave of problems is thought to have contributed to Benedict's decision to become the first pontiff in 600 years to abdicate.

Read more @

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The 100,000+ followers of the Roman Catholic Church stood in St. Peter's Square and well over a billion more worldwide have joined together this day to rejoice the selection of the new Pontiff, Pope Francis. May God protect him and guide him to make the right decisions and to help preserve the sanctity of faith and family across the world.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.

Naw, that would be too easy for someone as edjumay... edchoomuh..., edjama... worldly as you. You know how to do the research. Look for it yourself, my fellow forum dweller. You just might be surprised at what it is you'll find.

A hint for you, though... The connection has to do with "agrobiology." You'll have to really do your research, Basil, so don't limit yourself to just one or two links. Sometimes the information is well hidden because some people don't want you to know what they're doing behind the scenes.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

By all appearances, there's someone here on the forum who still has a bone to pick with a couple of folks within the county government. Tell me, holyc...what was it David said to you or made you so pissy with him when you visited his facility last year??? Because others wouldn't talk to you, you ASSume they're miserable??? Have you ever thought they were *"WORKING"* to make a living and most likely had a deadline to meet? I have talked to a couple of people who work for Madore and they only had nice things to say about their boss...ONE being that he listens to them and if they have any grievances, that he would take care of it personally. I've stood side by side with the man at a public open house, discussing the BRT project and he was quite polite and soft spoken. He would listen to the others and would add his 2 cents worth appropriately. He wasn't afraid to speak his mind, either. Is it because he's strong in his religious beliefs and isn't afraid to mention it that makes it a turn off for you??? I"m just trying to understand why you have such a vindictive side regarding the man.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW holyc, I disagreed with a couple of points with Madore and let him know that. He listened...even shared his perspective so others would understand his POV. It was quite refreshing to speak with someone who was not judgmental and was patient.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just for grins and giggles, I guess.

The Oregon State Senate just passed two bills.

You can now be ticketed and fined for smoking while driving a car with a child in it. Parents shouldn't endanger the health of their children like this, and the State has a responsibility to help protect that child.

You can now let your children under the age of 7 operate offroad vehicles (dirt bikes and ATVs) on public lands. It's the parent's right to determine what is safe for their child, and the state shouldn't interfere.

roger — March 13, 2013 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

David Madore-"Once elected, I will open the floodgates for jobs". (or something like that)

Waiting, still waiting......

Could he be just another politician making promises he had no intention of honoring? He's an honest guy right? So where are the jobs? Even a plan for opening those floodgates? He starts by de-funding a council whose sole purpose is basically to create jobs-seems a wierd way to start bringing on the jobs.

mrd — March 13, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd: I just wrote the good Commish and shared this opinion: You are harming Clark County more than you are helping. Keep breaking those contracts. Keep burning those bridges (no pun intended, though it is apt) . You will kill job creators who want to stay here. No one will want to come. Clark County will be wasteland of NO.

Who will want to come? Who will want to stay?

But I did thank him for his public service. What a job.

manthou — March 13, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Sometimes the information is well hidden because some people don't want you to know what they're doing behind the scenes.*

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

Sounds rather 'Becktian'........

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 3:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey all, sitting in Starbucks in DC, and what do I do? Read the cellar! Same old same old. The flags are up over the Capitol meaning both the house and senate are here and in session. Alas, they get nothing done as always. But I do enjoy being here and seeing this very alive town.

luvithere — March 13, 2013 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Madore is biding his time while looking ahead to another elected position. One that he can influence social policy like so many have done on the religious right. Issues such as abortion and education. I think he saw this light rail thing as a political opportunity to garner a faithful constituency. Plain and simple.

And when it's all said and done, when light rail construction begins, most likely he'll say, *hey guys I tried my best, you know that.*

Has he ever talked about his vision for Clark County? (Outside of lower taxes)

Any theme or major business outlook? A vision for a vibrant CC future?

Why the hell did anybody vote for thi...

Oh yeah, that bridge thing.

Anybody know if he's got a snooker table in his office?

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey luvit! I'm jealous! Kick Boehner in his A if you get the chance.

At least make him spill his drink!

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 13, 2013 at 2:58 p.m.

Yes. But the BIG question is: when will children under the age of 7 be allowed to ride their dirt bikes on publics lands AND - smoke at the same time?

kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holyc -It's no offense to you, but what you have just explained to me is a general point of view of what you think about Republicans as a whole. Rather a collective thought on your behalf. I was asking you about Madore and the walk through you had with him at one of his tours and what it was that set you off. Are we speaking of a gut feeling you have about the man?

Also, to say "keep drinking the Madore kool-aid" is rather facetious of you. Because I said something positive about the man, doesn't mean I agree with him and show support to everything he does or promotes. In fact, one of his pet projects...his personal promotion of a third bridge near 192nd Avenue which began long before he decided to run for county commish, I'm totally against. That is where I agree with Rep. Moeller when he stated in a recent video with Lou that we're not in the works for another highway and a third bridge on the east side is out of the question at this time.

It is obvious that we need to fix what needs to be fixed.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Sounds rather 'Becktian'........*

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.

How so? Funny, I've shared no "Beckisms" from any of Glen Beck's sites, old televisions shows, articles...anything like that in this discussion. In fact, I haven't mentioned anything to do with Beck for quite some time now, although it always seems to be your "out" when you haven't a clue as to how to find the information I speak. Beck had absolutely nothing to do with my statements. In fact, the information I'd found was on each and every website I'd checked involving each individual on the Fortune 400 list you'd provided. Is this your way of saying *"I'm too lazy to do my homework"* ???

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.

Still no answer to my questions?

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey luvithere, how's the breezy weather??? We're enjoying 60 degree weather this week while you're in DC. Bundle up. It'll be a chiller tonight where you're at.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Did you know that there’s a Hollywood movie about MAX . Yes, is true! It’s called – Bats-In-The-Head Begins. AKA: The CRC Light Rail Bridge to Nowhere – er- Delta Park.

Here’s just some of the action: (See what's in store for the taxpayers):

kn_dalai — March 13, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, so far pretty cent weather here. Walked a few miles last night to see a few memorials and monuments in the dark, nicely lit up. Bit breezier today though. Might need to stay in.

I told the kid today I figured out why these people can't get anything done. First thing here is the gazillions of suits. They need to implement business casual, casual Fridays.... Be a bit less uptight and fewer wedgies. Might increase flow of blood to brain and make them think a bit harder.,get stuff done. Might even remove orange skin and tears from Boehner's face. Honestly, black suits and ties and serious but vacant faces.
I need to stand in front of Capitol and just let them have it. Real people are suffering while they bicker.
:) :)

luvithere — March 13, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Sometimes the information is well hidden because some people don't want you to know what they're doing behind the scenes.*

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

*Is this your way of saying "I'm too lazy to do my homework" ???*

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.

If you see a connection, then maybe you should 'expose' it; much as Beck sees 'connections' and 'exposes' them.

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.

I understand your POV now, thanks. I worked in the building before US Digital was there. That building isn't what I'd call the most comfortable structure for atmosphere. I was in the downstairs office with the engineers, assisting them with various clerical duties. Atmosphere has a lot to do with any job. If the building has poor air circulation and dark as the downstairs always seemed to be unless you had an office with windows on the south side, it was a bit depressing. I'm not sure if Mr. Madore had any reconstruction of the building since but I'm sharing what I experienced while there...and that could have had something to do with the "attitudes" expressed.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 13, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.

Nope! Ain't gonna happen, Basil. For one thing, I am not Beck. For another thing, you are forever insisting on evidence by others to back their statement yet when they do and it brings up facts contradictory to what you've been told or what you read on your preferred links and it sends you into a tirade not worth the time of day. I can understand why on occasion, some refuse to answer you. Again...ain't gonna happen. Some things are best left unsaid on a public forum and an urging for the person to do their research is the best course of action. Whether or not they do it, that's their prerogative.

I've given you a very strong hint...something a fifth grader would be able to decipher. If you cannot figure it out for yourself, then too bad for you. Those of us who are in the know regarding the connection between each member of the group in discussion are sick and tired of folks like you who immediately throw in the insults that it's Glenn Beck this or Fox News that. We've seen the information. We've shared the information numerous times in the past but it's folks such as yourself who are in denial and will stop at nothing in order to try to diminish the facts with your typical defensive strategy of insults atypical of a mature discussion. So again I say...

Nope! Not gonna happen. Do your homework, Basil. It's been fun.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.

Confusion, disconnect of the human thought processes, frustration to those receiving the transmission. All part of the big plan. Besides, you can find it on Facebook these days, lol.

Forget Facebook. I'll watch Vernbook. It's more entertaining, lol.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

btw...that's Vern Fonk commercials...totally ridiculous spoof commercials between 4:30 and 6:00 in the evening.

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HC, I totally agree with you about Madore. He's got a hidden agenda that (I'm sure) will soon show it's ugly head. It's going to be a "GOTCHA". He's going to set everything up exactly how he wants it and then he's going to drop the bomb and nobody will be able to do anything about it. I don't know what it is but it won't be small or expected.

hawkeye — March 13, 2013 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Some straight talk.

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*Oh for Christ's sake...*

**Pope Francis Kidnapping Controversy: Jorge Mario Bergoglio Accused Of Involvement In 1976 Abductions**

The election of Pope Francis, previously Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has resurfaced a decades-old controversy surrounding the kidnappings of two Jesuit priests.

Bergoglio was a high-ranking official in the Society of Jesus of Argentina when a military junta was installed in the South American country in 1976. According to the Los Angeles Times, priests Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics were kidnapped in May of that year by the navy. "They surfaced five months later, drugged and seminude, in a field," the Times reported. A 2005 lawsuit accused Bergoglio of unspecified involvement in the abductions. Reuters explains that "the military government secretly jailed [Yorio and Jalics] for their work in poor neighborhoods."

A spokesman for Bergoglio called the claims "old slander."

Reuters has more details:

According to "The Silence," a book written by journalist Horacio Verbitsky, Bergoglio withdrew his order's protection of the two men after they refused to quit visiting the slums, which ultimately paved the way for their capture.

Verbitsky's book is based on statements by Orlando Yorio, one of the kidnapped Jesuits, before he died of natural causes in 2000. Both of the abducted clergymen survived five months of imprisonment.

"History condemns him. It shows him to be opposed to all innovation in the Church and above all, during the dictatorship, it shows he was very cozy with the military," Fortunato Mallimacci, the former dean of social sciences at the Universidad de Buenos Aires, once said.

Those who defend Bergoglio say there is no proof behind these claims and, on the contrary, they say the priest helped many dissidents escape during the military junta's rule.

Per the Associated Press, "Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery." Bergoglio discussed the incident with Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer.

More from AP:

Both men were freed after Bergoglio took extraordinary, behind-the-scenes action to save them – including persuading dictator Jorge Videla's family priest to call in sick so that he could say Mass in the junta leader's home, where he privately appealed for mercy. His intervention likely saved their lives, but Bergoglio never shared the details until Rubin interviewed him for the 2010 biography.

Bergoglio testified about the matter in 2010 after twice refusing to appear in open court, but "his answers were evasive, human rights attorney Myriam Bregman said."

nailingit — March 13, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For those who complain about the elected not "creating jobs" whom have never owned a business let me tell you, you have no idea the amount of fees and taxes they have to pay.

When cities and towns stop running business owners off by enforcing high fees, maybe more people would open new businesses and jobs would flow.

One of my friends wanted to open her second restaurant in Hazel Dell, was told she'd have to pay 1/4 million in traffic impact fees plus all the other city fees and taxes. So she ended up going to Portland to open her second restaurant.
So when towns, cities and states make it more "business friendly" for businesses, jobs will be there for those who are looking.

Another case is Chuck's in Hazel Dell, didn't they want a impact fee of around 1 million? Wonder what they ended up paying, does anyone know?

The only way government can "create jobs" is within government it's self. No government has created jobs at any grocery store, hospital, florist shop, etc. The elected can lower fees and taxes to help entrepreneurs who IS the job creator.

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The new proposed Dem budget will increase spending 62% over next decade. Senator Murray finally released a budget today. Year over year, in this proposed budget, spending jumps dramatically. Over the next decade, spending under Murray's budget would increase by 62 percent. In her budget spending jumps to $2.2 trillion more in 2023.

In an interview that aired earlier today, President Obama said, "We don’t have an immediate crisis in terms of debt. In fact, for the next ten years, it’s gonna be in a sustainable place."

Say what?? (in my best Gary Coleman voice) What you been smoking Willis??

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 2:03 p.m***


i've been wondering if there's anything about this particular pope.....

the current one retires, virtually unprecedented, the new pope is the first one from the americas and it's easter time.

i hope this is a foreshadowing of God's cleaning house in rome.

DeeLittle — March 13, 2013 at 10:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*hc: "To me the "Republican Agenda" has destroyed America as we knew it. "*

with a mind that closed, discussion is pointless.

DeeLittle — March 13, 2013 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

***... it is not "natural" to feed the brain so much information and so rapidly. Anybody has any thoughts on it? holycrapola — March 13, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.***

**VERY** interesting question. i'll ask some ppl in research i know & see what's going on.

DeeLittle — March 13, 2013 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**It's Not Your Imagination: Republicans Really Don't Like Science**

Gordon Gauchat of the University of North Carolina published these findings in the forthcoming issue of the American Sociological Review. He looked back at data from 1974 through 2010, and found that trust in science was relatively stable over that 36-year period, except among self-identified conservatives. While conservatives started in 1974 as the group that trusted science most (compared to self-identified liberals and moderates), they have now dropped to the bottom of the ranking.

Gauchat used data from the General Social Survey, which asked subjects to rate their level of confidence in the scientific community. Here's what he found: 
The reason for this, according to Mooney and others, is that the **"political neutrality of science began to unravel in the 1970s with the emergence of the new right"—a growing body of conservatives who were distrustful of science and the intellectual establishment, who were often religious and concerned about defending "traditional values" in the face of a modernizing world, and who favored limited government.** This has prompted backlash against subjects for which there is broad scientific consensus, like global warming and evolution—backlash that has been apparent in survey data over the past three decades.

Read more @

nailingit — March 14, 2013 at 12:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 13, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.

Hawk, Madore has no hidden agenda. He's been quite vocal from day one and has made his agenda perfectly clear from the beginning. He doesn't want the I-5 Bridge replaced and he wants that third bridge. I believe he assumed that by getting a position in county government, he'll have better say on the matter.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I told my wife that the church elected a new Pope. Her first comment was 'I bet he's over 70.' I asked how did she know. Her reply was the church will not elect anybody under 60 because it upsets the applecart as far as it's unwillingness to come into the 21st century.

Why can't women become priests? Why can't priests marry. Why can't some of the dogma that wraps around the pomp and circumstance be loosened up?

She understands why members are leaving and if the church continues to be stuck in the mud the bleeding will continue.

By the way she is a member and she doesn't like that the church would rather cover their butts instead of fessin' up and fix the problems facing them.

JohnCasey — March 14, 2013 at 6:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just an observation on my part -

One-sided agenda-ridden links base their information on political groups as a collective rather than as individuals and their political preferences. Speaking for myself, a registered Republican...

Science is everything. Without study of the sciences, where would we be today?

So much for accuracy.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnCasey — March 14, 2013 at 6:14 a.m.

John, it is my observation that although it's been recorded that parishioners have been leaving, they have held true to the Christian beliefs taught by the Catholic Church. Does a person truly need a church in order to be a believer??? A close friend once told me...a church is a place of worship and fellowship but to believe in Christ, one doesn't need a church in order to pray.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — March 13, 2013 at 10:41 p.m. and at 10:49 p.m.

Your first comment...made me smile. Now combine the two comments you'd made and it makes me wonder. (just kidding, holyc)

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — March 13, 2013 at 10:35 p.m.

We can only hope (and pray) for the best.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*, I am not Beck. For another thing, you are forever insisting on evidence by others to back their statement yet when they do and it brings up facts contradictory to.....*

goldenoldie — March 13, 2013 at 6:46 p.m.

You are the one making claims of connectivity; The only 'connection' I'm making is that there is a celebrity that became so by presenting his 'thinking' in the same way.

If you have valid data - accurate,quality sources - then showing it to support your - as yet unsupported beyond some 'becktian' connectivity - claim, then showing us your thinking isn't a problem.

But you won't / can't and I don't need to do your research.

And my point stands; Why center on Soros when we have long lists of people with similar piles of money available and a history of social activism?

If you are upset about your thinking being 'becktian' then substitute mccarthyist.

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — March 13, 2013 at 9:25 p.m.

So it is ok for a business to move into an established, improved area and basically mooch off those improvements? Free roads, utilities developed, schools for the employees, police, inspectors, etc?

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Sometimes they just come right out and say it...

**Kris Crawford, South Carolina Republican, Remembers It's 'Good Politics To Oppose The Black Guy'**

Democrats jumped on South Carolina state Rep. Kris Crawford (R) this week after his vote against Medicaid expansion, helping to bring attention to racially charged comments he made on the issue in January.

In a January interview with the Charleston Regional Business Journal, Crawford explained that he -- unlike many of his Republican colleagues -- supported the measure to expand Medicaid eligibility under President Barack Obama's health care law. But Crawford predicted that he would be a dissenting voice in his party, suggesting that his fellow Republicans knew they would benefit from opposing Obama, in part because of race.

“The politics are going to overwhelm the policy," Crawford said. "It is good politics to oppose the black guy in the White House right now, especially for the Republican Party."


[South Carolina Democrats quickly blasted Crawford's reversal, calling it a sign that he was willing to play into the racially charged motivations that he had earlier accused his colleagues of following.

"Obviously Rep. Crawford let politics overwhelm policy and agreed with his own comment 'it is good politics to oppose the black guy in the White House right now,'"...]

Read more @

nailingit — March 14, 2013 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:16 a.m

Very well said golden! Even Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind".

Religion attempts to explain how we came to be while science proves and still proving it today with carbon and other tests on artifacts, cities etc found.

Those that try to define someone or a group is only defining themselves. This is where the narcissistic personality comes out.

ELISI — March 14, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*The electoral process is so prostituted together with the "position seekers" that sometimes I wonder if this democracy/republic has lost its north.*

holycrapola — March 14, 2013 at 8:02 a.m

It was lost years ago holyc, more so now. We the voters have allowed it, all the years of sitting on our hands and letting the government feed us the illusion that they know better what is good for us than we ourselves.

ELISI — March 14, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

No, you don't get it. We have NOT seen his agenda as of yet. We will not find out what it is until he springs it on us and by then it will be too late.

hawkeye — March 14, 2013 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And my point stands; Why center on Soros when we have long lists of people with similar piles of money available and a history of social activism?

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.

It is apparent the level of your intent of research on Soros. His stands out the most in the discussion at hand IF you'd read the facts on him...not just what you find on certain sites such as Wiki or huffpo. If you recall, I stated reference to the connection EACH of the members of the Fortune 400 list have with each other. That included but was not exclusively Soros.

And as I've said...I have nothing to prove. I've given you just enough information that if you cared to know, you'd check it out yourself beyond the scope of your personal preference rather than the baseless claim I haven't the information because you couldn't or wouldn't locate the data yourself.

And Basil, I do not reference my line of thinking as Becktian or McCarthyist. I don't base my thought processes on someone who has made a name for themselves whether it be out of good or evil. I base my thought processes and form my conclusions on my own. I'm not out to make a quick buck on the conclusions I have made. I know that might be something difficult for someone of your educational experience to fathom, but not everything must have a label on it and not everything has a price on it.


goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 14, 2013 at 8:25 a.m.

Oh I get it alright...just disagree with you, that's all. I think it's safe to say that we can agree to disagree.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Even Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind".*
ELISI — March 14, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.

A bit more from the letter that is being quoted:

" The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. "

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And as I've said...I have nothing to prove.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

So, basically an unsupported claim, now stretched out to include yet more unsupported 'connection'.

Thanks for the becktian analysis .

Got it.

Interesting also is your 'knowledge' of my sources. Esp. since I linked to neither of the sources you claim I used....

/sarc on / That's really, really rational. And sciencey /sarc off/

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Think about it. The took the jobs away sending them overseas, stalled the economy, got us in two wars with borrowed money, got a bank bail out, they got a tax break for years to create jobs (which they never did) of near a trillion dollars and now they have the nerve to tell us to live within our means but cutting social security and medicare to balance a budget. All this without even paying for their drunken sailor spending from the Treasury.*

holycrapola — March 14, 2013 at 8:27 a.m.

Well stated. Both Dems and Republicans share in accountability, but the lion's share of our debt, foreign policy debacles and dismal forecast/plan for the future is overwhelmingly republican responsibility.

It's important we ferret out the conservative ideologue office holders and make damn sure they never hold office again.

Many who blur the lines are registered republicans by and large because of their wacky religious beliefs. In that sense the GOP has a big tent. Hate progressives and you're in regardless of personal ignorance/idiocy.

In large part religious conservatives are the reason for our divided government.

After all, how can you negotiate with people who are driven by *God's* voice? (and shysters like Beck & Limbaugh who reenforce and capitalize from it)

They'll go down kicking and screaming, but go down they will. *(no relation to the Ungrateful Bar Fly:)*

People are waking up. November of last year was more than telling!

nailingit — March 14, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Republicans are despicable. They don't own their bad deeds, they make the rest suffer for their excesses.
That is why I would never be a republican. How dare they conveniently forget. At what point, assuming responsibility is a case of being confronted by moral fortitude?
holycrapola — March 14, 2013 at 8:27 a.m.

A bit of concreteness to add:

About a year after Texas slashed its family-planning budget by two-thirds, ....
The state's health commission says Texas will see nearly 24,000 unplanned births between 2014 and 2015 thanks to these cuts, raising state and federal taxpayer's Medicaid costs by up to $273 million.

...In a state where half of all pregnancies were unplanned in 2011, and 1 in 3 women of childbearing age lacks health insurance, this is only going to get worse.

The Planned Parenthood clinics that anti-choice legislators booted from the state's Women's Health Program serviced nearly 50 percent of the program's patients. Along with contraceptive counseling, the clinics provided basic screenings for cancer, hypertension, and other key problems. There's no shortage of need: women in Texas suffer high rates of STIs and unintended pregnancies compared to national figures, and the state ranks 50th for diabetes prevalence in women. Nonetheless, Republican lawmakers went after the clinics in 2011, thanks to their long-standing beef with the organization, and forfeited tens of millions in Medicaid reimbursements to the Women's Health Program so they could defund Planned Parenthood clinics without breaking any federal rules governing how states have to spend Medicaid money.

Despite losing its highest-volume providers, the Texas Health and Human Services Commission insists the revamped, wholly state-run and state-funded Women's Health Program can reshuffle all the displaced patients and keep providing the same levels of care as before. But last October, researchers at George Washington University examined five Texas counties and found that in order to effectively replace Planned Parenthood, other clinics would need to increase their caseloads two to five times.

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.

Bend and twist my words all you'd like, Basil. Rather than admitting you didn't care to check, you went off in a rant. Talk about being irrational! Nice try, though. Okay...just to be nice, I'll give you the information I was referring...and it's a fact that each and every member on the list has either a direct or indirect connection to none other than....


So there you have it...the answer to my clue. No conspiracy, just a fact easily supported by checking who each and every member mentioned has business ties with and where the connections lie. Makes you wonder just who it is that is controlling our very existence in the world whether it be for the betterment of our world or in essence...killing us off depending on the point of view taken.

So now don't you feel silly, Basil???


Now...on another note...

I found this link on Albert Einstein which goes into more depth about his views on religion. I thought you might find the link below interesting, especially his final statement in his article prior to the letter excerpt you shared which says *"A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people."*

I think this just about sums it all up rather well. We're too materialistic a society to not include religion in our lives. Does that mean anybody who goes to church is materialistic? I don't think so, unless the message through religion is to remind us to not be materialistic. Hard call, there.

Basil...don't let our discussions get the best of you. Sometimes the simplest of information is right under your nose and easy to overlook, leading to assumptions which can lead to negativity and no resolve which would be a waste of time for both sides. So in my final note to you for now...Have a good *rest of your day*, my fellow forum dweller! Enjoy the day, enjoy life and always hold to your inner beliefs as you know them to be just and true, no matter if anybody else every disagrees...but always have that open ear to understand the other view. You just might learn something from it.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.

Thank you.

And to mind, it wasn't but a few weeks ago this same poster was introducing Glenn Beck's Agenda 21 (the title of Beck's recent book release) once again to the basement.

I've never really listened to what Soros had to say before. But MAN does he nail it!

nailingit — March 14, 2013 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

So there you have it...the answer to my clue. No conspiracy, just a fact easily supported by checking who each and every member mentioned has business ties with and where the connections lie. Makes you wonder just who it is that is controlling our very existence in the world whether it be for the betterment of our world or in essence...killing us off depending on the point of view taken.*

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 9:22 a.m

Oh, do tell.

Tell us more.....

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*And Basil, I do not reference my line of thinking as Becktian or McCarthyist. I don't base my thought processes on someone who has made a name for themselves whether it be out of good or evil. I base my thought processes and form my conclusions on my own. I'm not out to make a quick buck on the conclusions I have made. I know that might be something difficult for someone of your educational experience to fathom, but not everything must have a label on it and not everything has a price on it.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 8:42 a.m

So your "thought processes" have decided just what exactly about this 'Monsanto connection'?

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

* ...
Basil...don't let our discussions get the best of you. Sometimes the simplest of information is right under your nose and easy to overlook, leading to assumptions ...*

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.

Now, ask yourself why your choice of site citation is one that printed EXCERPTS without ellipses...

I'll make an assumption that you cited them in 'good faith' and didn't know.

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

My personal opinion as to why many middle to lower class income conservatives are against government investment and growth are due to personal circumstances. Many have never invested in personal growth, success or a visionary future for their own lives and resent government or anyone else assisting others.

It's one of the reasons for Government and Union hating. Hating good jobs that provide a stable and secure future for many middle class Americans.

Rather than facing internal failure and growing from it, they turn to *God* and embrace like minded folk, never abandoning the short sighted decisions that produced their failing conditions to begin with. (while collecting Unemployment bennies, SS disability, retirement, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.)

I understand why many have a hard time affording new taxes for a better future. But it's certainly not the government's fault.

**GOP confuses government and family budgets**

*Paul Ryan's newest plan focuses solely on the deficit and distracts from real economic goals, like jobs and wages*

“Our biggest problems over the next ten years are not deficits,” the President told House Republicans Wednesday, according to those who attended the meeting.

The President needs to deliver the same message to the public, loudly and clearly. The biggest problems we face are unemployment, stagnant wages, slow growth, and widening inequality — not deficits. The major goal must be to get jobs and wages back, not balance the budget.

Paul Ryan’s budget plan — essentially, the House Republican plan — is designed to lure the White House and Democrats, and the American public, into a debate over how to balance the federal budget in ten years, not over whether it’s worth doing.


The government’s finances are not at all like a household’s. In fact, it’s when American families can’t spend enough to keep the economy going, because too many of them are unemployed or underemployed and have run out of money, that government has to step in as spender of last resort — even if that means taking on more debt. If government doesn’t fill the spending gap, an economy can collapse into deeper recession or depression, pushing unemployment far higher. Look at what austerity economics has done to Europe.

In addition, it’s perfectly fine for government to borrow and continue to borrow in order to invest in new roads or other infrastructure, or education, or basic research — when those investments pay off in higher rates of economic growth.

The notion that government spending “crowds out” private investment, keeping interest rates higher than otherwise, is obsolete in a global economy where capital sloshes across national borders, seeking the highest returns from anywhere.

Societies that invest in the productivity of their people attract global capital and create high-paying jobs.

Read more @

nailingit — March 14, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

the GOP conservatives continue their idea of success-exclusion.

American Conservative Union chairman Al Cardenas spoke briefly with reporters ahead of the beginning of the CPAC conference -- explaining why he didn't invite New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and insisting that the GOP is "not a home for everybody."

As the conference opens, the GOP's identity crisis -- expand the tent, or try to convince more people to crowd under what's already built -- is on sharp display.

"I'm a firm believer that if the Republican Party's going to have success, it's going to do so by being a conservative party and not a home for ah, for everybody," Cardenas said. "And that's how you grow. I mean, look, you grow your tent by convincing others, and persuading others, that yours is the way, and you build your tent by reaching out to the new demographics of America not with a watered down version of who we ought to be but with a true, real, solid version of who we are."

Problem is, their philosophy probably won't "grow their tent". More than likely, it will shrink it.

mrd — March 14, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seems appropriate given some of the claims being bandied about.....

**Adrift in an Ocean of Lies**


C) The third thing is this seemingly mundane but really rather amazing fact: If you don’t know what’s true in the world around you, you cannot reason about the world around you.

Let me repeat that:


Seriously, if you don’t have any solid facts in your head, the mental process that might otherwise be labeled “reasoning” is anything but. You might proceed with the same mental gymnastics that serves everybody else as reasoning, but if you “know” that Toyota is totally trustworthy and totally on your side, or you “know” that George W. Bush is absolutely honest, absolutely brilliant, and absolutely patriotic, you’re going to get some less-than-useful results in your final estimation.
Think about the freaky reverse-reasoning built into some of our familiar religions. That death brings Life Eternal, or that the end of civilization would be a massively good thing. There are people who believe it utterly. They would fight you if you tried to tell them different.

Think about the utterly transparent lies and manipulations of FOX News, and the Tea Party founders. There’s this fantastically obvious foundational aspect of it all, that people can be convinced to vote against their own interests, and in favor of the interests of distant billionaires. Because of the lies fed to them daily, hourly, the victims are literally unable to understand their own needs, so much so that a true friend who tried to tell them they were being savagely manipulated, and to their own real detriment, would be branded a hater of all things good and right and American.

mr_basil_seal — March 14, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay folks...for anyone who cares about who is receiving our hard-earned tax dollars we pay out each day, have you read the article entitled *"New state transportation chief orders for review of megaprojects, including CRC"* ??? If so then tell me if this sends a red flag your way. It sure does mine.

Ms. Peterson has hired a consulting firm which the article reported the same firm has received money from the CRC. The company??? CH2M Hill Inc. of Colorado...the same company listed in the following link:

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie this CRC thing just keeps getting deeper and deeper.What can they do next to shoot their selves in the foot?

timerick — March 14, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As the article notes, there may be a conflict of interest in that CH2M Hill also did work for several of the projects.

What the article left out is Ms. Peterson's own background - Transportation advisor for Gov Kitzhaber, and she's also been a planner for both TriMet and Portland Metro. This lady is up to her neck in the CRC project. Want to place any bets on where she's looking to run with these reviews? Clark County will be permanently linked with Metro and TriMet; we might as well shut C-Tran down.

SR 520 is not meeting tolling estimates because the diversion to I90 hasn't corrected as predicted by WSDOT. Their tolling estimates for the Alaska Way project keep dropping - last I saw, they now only expect to pull in $200 million per year (nowhere near enough). Expect the same with I5. No idea where she plans on going with the overall process study, but anticipate that she pushes to have all alternate routes tolled. It'll take some manipulation at the federal level, but Senator Murray will be happy to oblige.

roger — March 14, 2013 at 2:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick and roger, I'm just sitting here, shaking my head in frustration and disgust...reading the information on the monitor...wondering why they're still hanging in there and going forth with this project. *Do they not see what they are doing*??? *Are they* *that stupid???*

still shaking my head in frustration...

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick and roger...if we had to pay tolls for a crossing project which didn't include TriMet, I'd be accepting...even willing to support it. The crossing isn't for better traffic mobility. It's for TriMet. I still cannot understand why the federal government would "promise" funding for the light rail portion...the local portion of the project yet they *won't commit for funding to replace a Federal Crossing on a Federal Highway!* It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever! And CRC's *"promise"* to offset millions of dollars to help ease the loss of profits to three companies...with no secured funding in the plan???

Now to find out the Washington State Sec'y of Transportation is utilizing the help of a company for a review of transportation funding...the same company with its feet well planted in the PNW's transportation as well as nuclear (Hanford) infrastructure...the same company named in the USDOJ criminal case???

Please enlighten me to the thought processes of the powers that be because right now as it stands, they've got me stumped!

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I don't think that they are stupid.I do think that they are in so far over their heads and they are looking for a way out.I believe they thought people would just look the other way.In this day and age it is way eaiser to get information.I think that they just thought they could do it like they did 20 years ago.And now they have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

timerick — March 14, 2013 at 3:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO-in your link-
The feds fining CH2M Hill $18.5M is chump change. THe feds have been dumping $2B/yr into Hanford since about 1990. Don't know what Hill's cut is, but that fine is WAY less than 1% of the money spent there, and I gotta believe Hill is getting a lion's share. That ain't no fine, it's just the cost of doing business with the feds. Large corporations that thrive on the government's tit (read taxpayer here) are essentially immune to punishment, neither jail or fines mean squat. Besides, that fine will probably get rolled into the next juicy, no-bid contract anyway.

mrd — March 14, 2013 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah timerick, I think you're right. If I could pull it up, so could anybody else!!!

Maybe I'll attend that town hall meeting on Saturday morning.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, that's not the point. It's the integrity of our State Secretary of Transportation and the integrity of the company she's chosen that is on the OUR expense. If you read the case information, you will see they were cheating the people out of wages. Will they do the same in cheating the taxpayers as well???

Integrity, mrd...integrity.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you are talking about Moellers town hall I think you would be wasting time.Those 3 are not going to change.They are going to tell everyone how great of a project this is.Even with this new information coming out they will still stand behind their beliefs.I don't think you can change their minds.They have been blind to all this since the begining.There seems to be some kind of central motivation for that. I don't want to believe it is money driven but I am swaying that way.I have been in this town for a long time and the big old money stands to make even more off this.If this thing implodes it will be interesting to see who falls out after the dust clears.

timerick — March 14, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick, it's been awhile since I've attended any public meetings and this town hall is not what I'd consider a waste of my time. In fact, the more the merrier. I think everyone should attend, both pro and anti. I would LOVE to stand up in front of front of Boyd or any other person involved who supports this project and share a few pointers with them...just to see their reaction and how they'd respond to the masses...stumbling to find the right words or try to brush it off.

A waste of my time?





goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ask the good citizen questions you know the answers's fun watching them spin (as long as you don't get *too* dizzy)

DeeLittle — March 14, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anne McEnerny-Ogle has announced for City Council, to run against Jeanne Harris. She says she picked that position because Burkman and Stewart are always out in the community, engaged with the people they represent. Weren't you talking her up when she ran against Campbell and Turlay?

I've glanced at her web page - she's got a very good plan for the CRC that I could back. (Tolls for the bridge only and removed when paid off; WA and OR each responsible for their own interchange upgrades; LRT to the C-Tran district for a vote, and she'll support the winning side. But no tolling money to build or maintain it.) Problem is - For this to mean anything, there would have to be a major setback or two, sending them back to the drawing board.

roger — March 14, 2013 at 4:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle, you can bet on it that some heads will be spinning on Saturday as well as over the course of the next few months. Their double talk may work for their sales pitches in order to get them elected, but nobody's buyin'!!!

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 5:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Definitely some interesting stuff making The C's afternoon update. There's an article about the Cascadia Subduction Zone megaquake that the CRC is using to scare people into wanting that new bridge.

There's a problem - the people they're quoting have no more knowledge of quakes that you or I. They're government officials, business leaders and other interested folks. I posted a link to a Univ Oregon study done by some people qualified to address the topic. The place they ID as the most likely danger zone is the Coos Bay area.

Given that we can retrofit the I5 bridge to withstand a large quake for about $200 mil, I'd think a better use for the rest of that money would be to fix schools, etc, and prepare the response teams.

As someone notes, the average home has only a few days meals in it, while a good estimate for recovery teams to get things moving again is at least two weeks. I'd say that, depending on the time of year, things could be even worse. I've got enough food to last perhaps 3 or 4 weeks if in the winter. But most is frozen, and would go bad if in the summer. My canned goods might last a week. And I've got several 5 gallon water jugs. But the problem is rotating foodstuffs and changing the water out every few weeks. Being consistently prepared is a lot harder than it sounds.

roger — March 14, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger, it appears to me that the folks involved with the CRC are in panic mode now. They're stooping to new low levels and it's not working. They're running out of options and they know it. Even the switch up of government officials is leaving them even more vulnerable. What they thought was written in stone...turned out to be mud. I don't think they even knew that train was a comin'...and I'm not referring to light rail either.

Regarding preparation for that possible earthquake...learning skills of preserving food thawed by power failure is a plus. That includes smoking meats with a wood-fired/coal-fired smoker. Keeping a close watch on who sell dry ice might help keep the food frozen a bit longer as well. Also...should there be such an earthquake, we have to remember accessibility of the food you have stored away IF we even survive the BIG ONE. Location, location, location is what I've always been told. As far as water...we live in the Pacific Northwest. Rain barrels are a good addition for anybody who owns their own home. You can boil and filter that water for good use as well. Also...a fire pit is good in case you don't have propane for that camp stove or barbecue. Another good item to keep in storage...a tent and sleeping bags (with tarps for rainy weather). Oh, I could go on with this. I've done a lot of research regarding this subject, but I'll leave it at that for now. There's so many good reference books and web links to choose from these days which have excellent information.

goldenoldie — March 14, 2013 at 5:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

GO-that may NOT have been your point-and it's taken. My point is corporate Amerika can pretty much fleece us-the taxpayers-as they see fit, and the government stooges (politicians that are nothing more than whores for the money) wil help corporate Amerika continue to do the same.

If real economic and political integrity are what you seek, I think you should relocate to New Zealand (my choice) some such place. In the US of $$$, it's all about the $$$.

mrd — March 14, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, I'm not one to run and hide from the issues plaguing our government. I'm willing to stand with others who also see the problem t and expect accountability for the actions of the people who run our government. Regarding your point of view, I understand what it is you're saying and tend to agree.

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I did not know that Anne McEnerny-Ogle had announced. Great! I have served with her in a community volunteer role for years and she also was my kids' math teacher when they were in middle school.

She was almost single-handedly responsible for getting the original LR route (north on Main to Kiggins Bowl), re-routed. I like her CRC ideas and you can count on her to do what she promises. She is tireless and a true community advocate. She asks tough questions of our government officials. She really "rolls her sleeves up" and works with others to make our city so much better.

She will beat Jeanne Harris, hands down.

You gave me good news!

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 6:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay now...either my computer monitor needs a good cleaning or I need a second cup of coffee this morning. I just finished reading the article, "Clark county population sees slight increase" and something just isn't jiving with my thought processes. Read the two excerpts below and tell me if this is just a typo or if it really makes sense:

*The county's population grew 1.2 percent between 2011 and 2012 to reach 438,287.*


*The Census Bureau's estimate for the county's population is slightly higher than the state Office of Financial Management estimate, which put Clark County's population at 431,250 as of April 1, 2012.*

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 6:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cleaned the monitor, got that second cup of coffee, sat back down and reread the article. I now see that the first estimated population number was from the US Census and the second from the state Office of Financial Mgmt.


NOW I'm awake, lol.

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 6:27 a.m.

Aside from the mathematical inconsistencies, I have to question why taxpayers pay for two agencies that simply guess at how many people live here.

frobert — March 15, 2013 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Frobert, can you imagine what our government would be like if we didn't question their modus operandi???

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 7 a.m. ( | suggest removal

How delusional some of our elected can they get???

**Rep. Conyers: ‘The Debt Is Not Endangering Us a Bit … We Don't Think There's a Problem’**

Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, said on Thursday that the nation’s current debt of $16.7 trillion is “not endangering” the country, adding that “some debt is not a bad idea” and that he and other congressional Democrats “don’t think there’s a problem.”

Conyers and other liberal Democrats spoke at a Capitol Hill press conference about their initiative to compel Congress to cancel the across-the-board budget cuts (sequester) of $1.2 trillion over 10 years, which actually are reductions in the rate of increase in federal spending and amount to $44 billion for this year.

Be sure to follow the link to read the rest and watch the video where Conyers speaks.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Rachel Maddow Tears Into Ted Cruz (VIDEO)**

An incensed Rachel Maddow tore into Republican senator Ted Cruz and called for further gun control on her Thursday show.

Maddow started the show by telling anyone with a connection to the massacre in Newtown that they might not want to watch the segment. She then shared new details of the shooting that were uncovered by the Hartford Courant. The one that seemed most chilling to her was that Adam Lanza took just five minutes to shoot 152 bullets and kill 26 people.

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A must read for anyone who drinks milk....

WASHINGTON, March 13, 2013- According to the Weston A. Price Foundation, American consumers are crying foul over a dairy industry petition to add unlabeled artificial sweeteners to flavored milks served to school children and to many other classes of dairy products.

Numerous scientific studies point to toxic effects of aspartame, including cancer, digestive issues and memory impairment. In spite of this evidence, the International Dairy Foods Association (IDFA) and the National Milk Producers Federation (NMPF) recently submitted a petition to the FDA to hide the chemical sweetener without declaring it on ingredients labels.

The Weston A. Price Foundation and other groups are urging consumers to file comments in protest of the petition on the FDA The Weston A. Price Foundation is a nonprofit nutrition education organization.

A petition against the move has gathered almost 100,000 signatures.

Researchers and holistic health advocates have warned about the toxicity of artificial sweeteners for many years:

Thousands of adverse reactions to aspartame have been reported to the FDA, mostly concerned with abnormal brain function, brain tumors, epilepsy and Parkinson’s.

Children’s brains are four times more are more susceptible to damage from excitotoxins like aspartame than those of adults and react with ADD ADHD type symptoms, impaired learning, depression and nausea.
People who are sensitive to aspartame can have life-threatening reactions to it.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Ops last part was cut off..

Children’s brains are four times more are more susceptible to damage from excitotoxins like aspartame than those of adults and react with ADD ADHD type symptoms, impaired learning, depression and nausea.
People who are sensitive to aspartame can have life-threatening reactions to it.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

well dang it...I'll try again..

susceptible to damage from excitotoxins like aspartame than those of adults and react with ADD ADHD type symptoms, impaired learning, depression and nausea.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Way back in the 50's we ate horse meat. It didn't seem to be a big deal. My mom even cook it for us. When my step-dad found out though he through a fit. It was stopped by the 70's because the public thought they just were too cute to be used as food.

The federal government decided to help save them by providing them with our taxpayer funded food. Now we have more wild horses than the land can sustain and the feds have proposed that we stop exporting them to countries that will process them for food.

Why??? To some people horses provide food. They are livestock and in a lot of countries they eat them. It seems that our country decided that they are too cute to eat. We eat chicken, rabbits, cows, pigs, turkeys, and anything else that can be considered livestock. I am not against people keeping horses as pets but please don't try to foist that thinking on me.

The feds should get out of the business of financing these kind of feel good projects and let the businesses get on with it. Several years ago it was found that we had too many horses on federal lands and the feds decided to start an adoption program. It didn't work as planned because there weren't enough people to facilitate it. Then they thought we'll just feed them with yours and mine tax dollars. How ass-backwards is that??

Now don't get me wrong. I lived on my uncle's farm for a while. My aunt was a product of the depression and she named all the animals. There was breakfast, lunch, and dinner as well as snacks. My uncle did all the slaughtering and she did the preserving and cooking. She's rolling over in grave at the fact that the government has gone to hell.

Just my opinion.

JohnCasey — March 15, 2013 at 8:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

In reply to the multiple postings about milk. These "studies" were produced from the Weston A. Price foundation. These types of claims this outfit are making are nothing new. Silly stuff.

Again, nothing credible and published by the Washington Times (I believe a while back a forum weekend warrior constitutionalist recommended this publication as a primary news source:)

As a side note the Washington Times was founded by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon to combat Communism and isn't taken seriously by many.

At some point you just hafta say, **What the Hell!...** :)) :(( :))

There are real issues in today's a people we can do better than this and I have to believe most of us do. But anyway...

**Weston A. Price Foundation: shills and quacks**

One of many examples..

**The Truth About The Weston Price Foundation**

Nutritional Facts and Fiction

*Fanciful folklore is no match for modern science!*

The Weston A. Price website states that "people with high cholesterol
live the longest," and that it is a myth that "for good health, serum cholesterol should be less than 180 mg/dl," adding, "There is no greater risk for heart disease, even at levels as high as 1,000 mg/dl." This doesn't jibe with every respected scientific authority in the world and is utterly ridiculous in light of thousands of respectable studies.

And countless others.

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Cholesterol facts:

*A higher HDL Cholesterol number reduces your risk of a heart attack -*

*The higher your HDL level, the less "bad" cholesterol you'll have in your blood.*

*When it comes to HDL cholesterol -- "good" cholesterol -- the higher the number, the lower your risk.*

*Your total blood cholesterol is a measure of LDL cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, and other lipid components. Doctors recommend total cholesterol levels below 200.*

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow. Good information from nailingit and goldenoldie. Healthy topics, both.

Let me add this to the journalism source stuff: John McManus at PBS penned a great column in February that gives a simple solution to figuring out how reliable your sources are. He aptly calls it the SMELL test:

S stands for Source. Who is providing the information?
M is for Motivation. Why are they telling me this?
E represents Evidence. What evidence is provided for generalizations?
L is for Logic. Do the facts logically compel the conclusions?
L is for Left out. What’s missing that might change our interpretation of the information?

Don't forget to monitor blood sugar, too. :)

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This video was taken at a "youth conference." It has to be seen to be believed. I swear you could put on a wolf's costume and as long you smile and say "Jesus", you're good to go. New heights gullibility. Incredible...the churches main concern-from the article..*The one thing we want to be sure we bring is reconciliation to him and his wife."*

**Jack Schaap, Indiana Pastor, Claimed Jesus Wanted Him To Have Sex With Teenage Girl**

**A disgraced Indiana megachurch leader who seduced his teenage parishioner evidently told her Jesus wanted them to have sex.**

As part of the government’s sentencing memorandum, federal prosecutors this week released incriminating letters between Jack Schaap, the former pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Ind., and his teen victim.

“In our ‘fantasy talk,’ you have affectionately spoken of being ‘my wife,’” Schaap wrote in one letter, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. **“That is exactly what Christ desires for us. He wants to marry us + become eternal lovers!”**

Schaap, 55, was fired by his church in July, according to the Associated Press. He eventually pleaded guilty to the **federal charge of taking a minor across state lines with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity.**

The scandal has shocked the Hammond church's **15,000 members,** who elected Schaap their pastor in 2001. The father of two was described as a "magnetic" and "charismatic" preacher, according to CBS. **He was also married to the daughter of the church's former pastor.**


**“He told me to confide in him, to trust him, and he made me feel safe and comfortable around him as a man of God,”** she wrote in a letter to the court, according to the Sun-Times. “(Schaap) preyed on that trust and my vulnerability.”

Prosecutors said Schaap "groomed" the girl before becoming intimate with her, **counseling her and texting with her frequently -- 662 times in one month, according to phone records.**

Sentencing in the case was schedule for Thursday.

Read more @

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, you must be reading my mind. I just finished reading the following information about added sugars in our diet, courtesy of the Mayo Clinic. I recommend everyone take the time to check out the other discussions listed at the bottom of this article. It is filled with excellent information worth taking the time to read:

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I came across this a few days ago. Seemed like an appropriate time for a print.

We need extra revenue. How about....*finally* taxing these institutions of lower learning.

**Evangelical church accused of ignoring sexual abuse, “pedophilia ring”**

*Sovereign Grace is not the first church to face cover-up allegations -- and it probably won't be the last*

The stories from plaintiffs who are included **describe a church culture where pastors’ sympathies routinely lay with male perpetrators of sexual abuse, particulary married fathers, who were allowed continued access to victims and other children in the church.** Victims’ families were deliberately misled to keep them out of legal proceedings, while pastors provided perpetrators with legal support. And families were **pressured not to report abuse and to “forgive” perpetrators, with even children as young as three being forced to meet their abusers for “reconciliation.”**

**Women and children who came forward were threatened and ostracized if they resisted efforts to “restore” their abusive husbands and fathers to a position of “leadership” in the family.** One plaintiff, “Robin Roe,” whose sister was sexually abused by their adoptive father, reports that their mother was advised by CLC pastors to send the victim away so the abuser could return as “head of the household.” When Roe’s mother refused to submit to this and other pastoral “attempt[s] to obstruct justice,” the family was kicked out of the church.


What is clear, though, is that t**he same scrutiny that has been focused on Catholic abuse scandals is needed to understand the factors that contribute to similar scandals in Protestant congregations.** The less-centralized nature of many Protestant organizations and the greater difficulty in obtaining data about the scope of sexual abuse in Protestant churches makes this a challenge. **But it is important to understand how the theology of such groups can engender cultures of abuse—sexual abuse compounded by religious abuse of authority**—and with this understanding, work to create specialized support for victims.

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Not meant to continue a downward spiral but...

Brian J. Parry Commits Suicide During Gun Safety Class In **Washington State**

Police in **Bellevue, Wash**., are investigating the death of a 50-year-old man who apparently committed suicide on Sunday during a gun safety class.

Brian J. Parry reportedly shot himself in the head with a pistol during the class, which was held at a local gun range. His death was witnessed by more than a dozen people, including children, the Seattle Times reported.

Onion News is starting to sound good about now.

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For those who want the facts about aspartame..

I know how dangerous it is, a niece was diagnosed with MS just last year after going to a dr for tests from symptoms of. When she stopped using artificial sweetener in everything the symptoms stopped, tests no longer came back positive for MS.
My family knows all too well about MS, my husbands brother had it, suffered from it for over 30 yrs before passing.

So make fun and try to discredit everything anyone posts on here as a heads up, doesn't matter, when you do, you are the one that looks like a fool of fools.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI- No need to try and make you look desire for that matter, your words and sources are your own.

*...try to discredit everything anyone posts on here...*

Just the ridiculous stuff that a few take seriously. If that many ;). Like many conspiratorial websites (and religious cults for that matter) who garner a small but faithful following, they mix a little truth with a lotta fiction and offer many remedies for tho$e who look.

Sorry for your families MS problems. I hope they received the best care and information available to them. If not using a sweetener produced beneficial results than more power to them.

Here is some basic info about MS. I'm sure many of us have been affected by this disease in one way or another.

It's important we source credible information from credible sources, especially when speaking of things medical.

Hope this helps.

There are several types of MS. Some patients have disease that will have an acute exacerbation followed by a prolonged quiet period, which can last years or decades. This form of disease is referred to as relapsed remitting MS, or RRMS. Others have a disease that gets progressively worse over time. There are two types of progressive disease. In primary progressive MS, or PPMS, symptoms steadily worsen over time from the very beginning. Secondary progressive MS, known as SPMS, begins as relapsed remitting disease and becomes progressive over time.


In brief, no clinical trial has shown convincing evidence of benefit in the treatment of primary progressive MS. All suggested treatments for PPMS are empiric. Several drugs that are more commonly used in the treatment of malignancy, cladribine and mitozantrone, appear to have some activity.

In contrast, there is definite modest benefit in some treatments for secondary progressive MS. These treatments include various regimens of steroid therapy and the use of some drugs that modulate the immune system. Many of these drugs are more commonly used in treatment of cancer and rheumatoid arthritis such as cyclophosphamide, methotrexate and interferon.

*MS should be treated by a neurologist with experience in managing it. The American Academy of Neurology has published treatment guidelines for MS.*

Read more @

nailingit — March 15, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit, my brother in law went through hell for years before the drs finally pinpointed exactly what he had. Due to the fact there was little known about MS at the time. From being diagnosed with MS in his early 30's he went from crutches to wheelchair to bed ridden in a matter of about 10 yr period. He passed in his mid 50's from complications associated with MS.

MS is a nasty disease destroying nerve ending, he got where he couldn't eat or talk. The drs even tried by cutting the nerves in his face to stop the pain, but it didn't work. Like I said I know all too well about how bad MS is. This July will be 16yrs since he passed, I am sure new and improved treatments are out there.

Aspartame, is well documented by the cancer and diabetes center,
it is found in many of our foods, but why add even more to foods? Look and you'll find nothing different than what was in the first link I provided. If one chooses to not look further, then so sad for them, I provided the first link to get others doing their own search of. It's what intelligent people do, check for facts.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Everyone have a great evening, son's 24th birthday so must go find out if he wants dinner at Fuji's, Olive Garden or Red Lobster and how many friends he is bringing.

ELISI — March 15, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As long as the GOP uses kooks like Trump for mouthpieces, they'll be facing an uphill battle. Snub Christie for Trump? Hmmm... Is he still pushing the birther thing?

I think the Donald needs a reminder who most people feel the Iraqi debacle beongs to.

And another great idea, just go "take" the Iraq's oil?

"One of his ideas to boost the economy included a suggestion to take Iraq's oil and "pay ourselves back" for the war.

"What the hell are we thinking? For those soldiers that were killed, I said we should pay those families money," he continued. "They lost their sons and their daughters and a million dollars to a family is nothing compared to the kind of wealth that you are talking about over there."

Trump added that the leader of Iraq-"we don't even know who the hell it is"-is likely building palaces and a kingdom of wealth now that the U.S. has left, while the American people got "nothing out of it," referring to the war."

mrd — March 15, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd, maybe it's time you, finally, started sourcing all of these quotes you so often cite.

kn_dalai — March 15, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**I LOVE IT!!!**

Just read the article *"GOP senator: conflict of interest in review of CRC, other projects,"* and am pleased that folks at the official level have taken note on what I commented about yesterday.

A couple of maybes, here...Maybe this is her way of eliminating the problematic CRC project altogether...*and*...Maybe that criminal investigation against funding for the CRC and direct parties involved will no longer be a passing thought and will come to fruition with results!!!

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We are a health-conscious bunch here for sure. You are what you eat and think.

Has anyone else been following the latest housing trend in West Coast cities like Seattle, SF, our namesake to the north? They are called microhousing or "podiments." They cater to the young crowd, kids who don't have a lot of money, but deserve to live in a clean, safe place for about $500 a month. Their little "pod pad" has a little bath and a tiny mini kitchenette. The big kitchen is shared. They are cropping up all over Seattle and the folks with the money hate them. The trend, I hear, among those 20 somethings is that they do most of their living outside their homes, anyway. Fascinating urban culture cropping up.

Can you see them cropping up here near Clark College, say, or downtown?

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Have you seen the pro CRC group that has cropped up? It is called the Bridge Club. I also see that the new director of the SW WA Humane Society is listed on another pro CRC interstate group, so I have to wonder:

Did David Madore withold funding and the contract as a pay back? I wonder. Cannot help that, especially since our old friend Pen accused the SW WA HS of being "pro CRC." Made me chuckle. I can see the doggies riding LR now: Dog is my co-pilot.

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, if the new director of SW WA Humane Society is listed on another pro CRC interstate group, well good for her. That's her choice, just as it is my choice to be pro CRC, I'm just not pro CRC with MAX. That's the wonders of a free society.

What Pen says is her business as far as I'm concerned.

Your speculation about David there something you know that you're not telling or is this just a slam against him because of your personal thoughts about the guy?

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — March 15, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.

Does Trump hold a position within the GOP?

He no more talks for the GOP than Fred Phelps does for the DNC.

frobert — March 15, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou, I just thought I'd share with you the fact that the Bridge Club is the list of supporters and endorsers for "Washington for CRC."

goldenoldie — March 15, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m

***From the "did you know" department.***

In Las Vegas, there are no Sorority Houses at UNLV. The thing is, if 3 or more girls/women live together, they consider it a house of ill repute.

manthou, I don't think those "pod houses" would work down there but I can see it working for other schools.

hawkeye — March 15, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.

Actually Manthou, when I was in college, 40 years ago, there were places available for college students, where each had there own room, but shared a community kitchen. Did I say this was 40 years ago? Sounds like what you're describing.

And while there are good times and bad times, I’ve never known anyone who didn’t think that having roommates really sucked. People want to have their privacy.

kn_dalai — March 15, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye: Really? Wow. Never knew that about sorority houses in Las Vegas.

This place is a wealth of information today.

goldie: I really harbor no inherent dislike of Mr. Madore. I just don't trust him to put aside his personal world view to be able to consider that there are other ideas worth considering. He is micromanaging to a fault right now and he is either going to burn out doing it, or get slapped down by a law he breaks or policy he ignores. That is his right to make errors and fail. I want him to be successful. I just don't see a lot of leadership, but I do see an autocrat. Not a good way to govern, in my view. I see a little of that in Jim Moeller, too, quite frankly.

manthou — March 15, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

*addendum to my 'foreshadowing' post:*

***Mark Burnett says 'weird things happened' on 'The Bible' set***

***by Grady Smith***

DeeLittle — March 15, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Goldie,

I've also discovered Washington for the CRC. It's much more interesting to go to through facebook. They're using the "feel good" campaign advertising strategy to mobilize supporters - lot's of trite comments and questions. They got mad at me; when they asked how many hours you spend commuting per week, I referred to Rose's Oregonian article that said a Brookings Inst study says Portland public transit users average 90 minutes commuting to work - that's not something they wanted people to hear.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Does Trump hold a position within the GOP?

He no more talks for the GOP than Fred Phelps does for the DNC."

maybe true, but I doubt the DNC would invite Phelps to present a speech.

BTW, my post used a part of Trump's speech to CPAC, a conservative political action comm. You can look it up.

mrd — March 16, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The pro-CRC crowd will be at Ft Vancouver HS campus at 10 a.m. - Moeller, Cleveland and others. The anti-CRC crowd will be in Battle Ground, Washougal and at Firstenburg Community Center - the last at 6 p.m. tonight.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I thought the town hall with Moeller et al was going to be at the ESD 112 on 65th.

Did that get moved?

manthou — March 16, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Did anyone else get a feeling of deja vu when Romney spoke yesterday? It reminded me of 'them idiots whirl tour' all over again. (my apologies to Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engval, and Larry The Cable Guy)

They'll be 3 parties running in the next presidential election. Democrats, Republicans, and The Fantasy Republicans.

JohnCasey — March 16, 2013 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger please keep us informed about Moellers town hall.I would like to be there but I have to work.Thanks

timerick — March 16, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

mrd — March 16, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.

CPAC is not the GOP, they are a fringe group fighting against the Libertarian movement that is overtaking the party. They have excluded officially sanctioned groups within the party. like log cabin and Goproud. Arguing that they or Trump speak for mainstream republicans is no more than a "strawman" fallacy.

frobert — March 16, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou- I know you asked Roger about the meeting, but I do know that it has not moved. It is still going on as we speak. I just wish I would have gone to it...

mxfun118 — March 16, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*CPAC is not the GOP, they are a fringe group fighting against the Libertarian movement that is overtaking the party*

frobert — March 16, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.


Mitt Romney-Paul Ryan-Michele Bachman-Rick Santorum-Newt Gingrich-RickPerry-Sarah Palin-Reince Preibus-Sen. Mitch McConnell- Marco Rubio-Rand Paul-Gov. Bobby Jindal-Eric Cantor

All featured speakers at this years CPAC. If this isn't the Republican party than what is? :)))

This is the 2013 Republican party taking center stage, warts and all. Plain and simple and truly defining the meaning of conservatism.

I've been watching some on CSPAN. You guys are great! One of Sarah's lines (GOP VP Candidate 08') "Yer guys need to be *Thinkin'* Sam Adams instead of *Drinkin'* Sam Adams!

What a hoot!


**On CPAC's Last Day, Conservatives Close With A Rising Star**

"Though he's only been a senator since January, this will be the third year Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz is addressing CPAC. This former Texas solicitor general and Tea Party favorite got top billing at the conference after aggressively questioning former GOP senator Chuck Hagel during Hagel's confirmation hearing to be secretary of defense."

Also scheduled to speak are Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Newt Gingrich, Rep. Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin. (CPAC has the full schedule on its website.)

nailingit — March 16, 2013 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Marissa Harshman is live tweeting the meeting. @col_health

It will be on CVTV later.

langenthal — March 16, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sorry, Manthou - I thought the ESD building was part of the campus - it's around the block.

In attendance - the three 49th legislators, both state CRC directors, ICC (Montague), GVCC (Parker?), a lady representing unions, a commuter, and some guy who served on the planning committees.

Most was rah rah stuff, and a rehash of what's been debated ad nauseum over on facebook. They did make the point that going from 116 feet to 125 (the height previously noted as necessary for Thompsons) is now OBE - Thompsons requires even much higher clearance, now that they're building oil rigs for the North Shore project. They're involved in mitigation discussions, which the CRC reps refused to elaborate on, calling the discussions confidential.

They also say this corridor is all about trucking - another reason they consider 116 feet about as high as they can go. The logistics of building a grade so truckers can use SR14 or Marine Drive negate going higher. LRT wasn't mentioned in this part of the discussion. A trucker got up and noted going from SR14 south and off at Marine Drive is going to be even harder under the new plan than what we have now - they kept referring to separate ramps allowing trucks to get up to speed, while I understood his point to be all the traffic still going on/off the bridge over such a short distance, and now he has to climb even higher.

There will be no tolling for pedestrians, bikes or LRT. The first two are paying in sweat equity (joke joke) and the LRT riders are already paying their share in some unspecified way. (I think they meant the New Starts grant paying for LRT.)

They kept harping on misinformation being spread - but didn't give specific examples. The labor rep gave a nice little talk on sacrificing to make a better future. OK. She also insisted they need to build the project using local labor. I collared her afterward and asked how she could demand this when federal contracting laws don't allow this. She agreed, but said they're going to insist anyhow. Also, if the contractors do like when building the Port silos with imported Mexican labor, expect the unions to picket the project.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One guy asked about the fairness of Clark County commuters paying both taxes to Oregon and tolls. Moeller tried to word this question differently, but the guy persisted, and eventually a couple of the panel members observed that this is an important discussion that has to take place when the tolling is finalized. The Oregon rep was silent for this.

And I couldn't get an answer to my question, which I had to ask at the grip and grin at the end. I wanted specifics on the Economic Benefits Analysis - they know where the 4200 long term jobs will be, down to 8 in northern and another few hundred up in Port of Seattle. Yet for this area, everything is Portland metropolitan area. I would note the larger goal here is to create jobs on this side of the river so we don't have to commute to Oregon, so why can't we have a breakout showing new jobs in Clark County? The only answer I got was again from the labor rep - a shrug and a comment that we are considered one area. But she may be pursuing this further - she said she got caught in construction traffic on a project in WA, so she got out to ask the workers where they're from and whether they're in the union. Oregon and No. These guys are project supporters right now (about 1/4 of the crowd of about 150 was union members), but I've got a feeling they'll be changing their tune when the contractors who get the project hire nonunion labor so they can stay under cost.

Last meeting I attended I noted David Madore working the crowd. Jim Moeller is also into glad handing. I met Mike Briggs, my favorite facebook liberal. He was off to Camas, where he expects to get a beating from the Repubs going to that town hall. When both lamented that this has broken down to Dems vs. Repubs - as noted here, there are a few who don't like Repubs and also don't like this project.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The usual stuff:
-One span gets built at a time; the I5 won't be closed; just down to one span at a time for a few years.
-There will be tolls, over $4 each way during peak hours. If you get a Good to Go transponder they'll be cheaper, but they didn't say how much. Look at SR520 tolling to get a rough idea. There is no plan to toll the I205 bridge - WA State law forbids it, and the federal restrictions would make that a tough hoop to jump through anyhow. (There appeared to be some tension with this; I get the impression Oregon is still planning on pushing this.
-Oregon's funding has been put on the table, but won't be committed until WA kicks in our money, the Feds send their request to Congress for the full $850 New Starts, AND they get a green light from the State Treasurer. Ted Wheeler (that person) noted last week he isn't happy with the tolling estimates to date.
-A whole lot of hand wringing over how long people spend in traffic and how horrible this is. It was noted if we don't strike now, then the money will go to the next in line - Honolulu. I laughed out loud at this, causing a few to turn and look. I noted to the few around me that perhaps they deserve the money more there - traffic on the H1 in Hono at 4 a.m. is heavier than we see here all day. A lady told me later that Hawaii has dropped their LRT project, but we didn't get into any detail.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well Roger, I attended the meeting. Not much of anything I didn't already know but I did get an explanation as to why the Federal Government is willing to pay for light rail but not the bridge and highway replacement and upgrades. I was a bit surprised to hear there was no federal money available for a bridge replacement but there's plenty for high capacity transit. Displaced responsibilities???

It was definitely an experience, especially when Ms. Boyd suggested we the audience keep the town hall civil with no heckling, making sounds or voices of cheer, although the smartly-placed union members appeared they couldn't hold back the cheering when their fearless SW Washington leader did her cheerleading at the front. It kind of sent a bad message about the union members in attendance. When it was question and answering time though...the majority of the union members had disappeared. Hmm...

Makes one wonder, eh!!!

Guess I'll stick to my letter writing. The poses for the camera for those great political promotional shots truly had a circus theme as far as I'm concerned.

Oh yes...and at the end, Rep. Moeller announced that anybody who wanted to have their picture taken in front of the banter at the back of the room should congregate together.

What did the banner say???

*"Washington for CRC"

oh gag

goldenoldie — March 16, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You know...when I've read the documents, seen the videos, attended the meetings, they'd promise this or that...mitigation to help offset lost profits brought on by the construction of the CRC; help small businesses during time of construction, things like that...I thought to myself...a lot of open-ended promises. Now, will they deliver??? Today was no different. When asked about where the funding for the mitigation funding would come from, they said the State of Oregon didn't have any room for it in their proposal for the $450 million and that they'd have to find it elsewhere.

Just where is that elsewhere??? More taxes? More fees? Clark County taxpayers? Washington State???

That $10.1 Billion dollar price tag is beginning to become a reality.

goldenoldie — March 16, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

mxfun118, you didn't miss anything.

goldenoldie — March 16, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Time to head out and hear the other side at the Firstenburg Center.


Expect that SW WA Labor leader and her troops to swing over to our side. The only reason they're supporting this project is they think they're going to have first crack at the construction jobs in exchange for their support. Once they find out that they will not be guaranteed this - because there is no way a contractor can be forced to hire them - then their support vanishes.

And we really need to lose this traditional Repub = Big Business, Dem = Workers, attitude about this project. Other than our Labor Rep and the legislators, every one of those people at the front represented Big Business. Lew Waters is correct that this project is an attack on the middle class (or more accurately, our financial bottom line), but he's focusing on the wrong enemy. The poor who are clamoring for this public transport system are tools of the business leaders of the downtown area. And as soon as (or if) these businessmen win this fight, those poor people can expect their low rent neighborhoods to be cleared "for the better good" of downtown redevelopment - and no one will give a damn about their plight.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Man...I wish I'd waited and gone to the Firstenburg Center gathering instead. There I know I would've heard facts instead of fallacies. I just cannot figure out how these people today, could lie through their teeth and still manage to face the people.

goldenoldie — March 16, 2013 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

**Hi kids, I didn't make it to the meetings but I got a letter from "THE CRC" the other day that I wanted to share with you. I sent an email to our illustrious Governor about the LRT and how we will be funding their shortfalls and his office asked the CRC to write me back with an answer. They inclosed a letter from Trimet stating that ;**

"During it's December 10 meeting, members of the CRC Washington State Legislative Oversight Subcommitte raised questions about TriMet's Other Post Employment Benefits (OPEB) and debt service. CRC funding cannot be used to fund TriMet retiree or debt service. The CRC project is funded with dollars dedicated to capital investments and these dollars cannot be used to fund transit operations. TriMet's OPEB liability has no impact on the CRC project budget."

**Now to me, this all sounds like political double-talk and they are going to figure out how to skim some off the top for a few of their projects regardless.**

hawkeye — March 16, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye, I guarantee you that if you had attended the meeting at the ESD building, you would have heard the doubletalk there as well...probably would've been just as disgusted as I was. What they stated as facts, were inaccuracies. What they stated as data was outdated information. And the discussions by the speakers...oh, they would've cracked you up. The "citizen" cyclist...Yeah, a friendly Joe (not his name), claimed he rides his bike to catch Bus 44 to Delta Park then onto Portland (moved to Vancouver from Canby but works in Portland...what's that tell ya???). He gave a schpiel that he decided to take a class at PSU...ONE class...ONE night per week. Would you believe he complained that he has to drive one night a week into Portland and has to pay $4/gallon for gas, then pays for parking to boot??? Oh boo hoo, Mr. Green Energy Specialist.

Then there was the "neighborhood citizen" on the Panel, Mr. Scot least that's what they claimed he was. Turns out, he was a member of the advisory group including Chambers of Commerce and Portland Business-Based Organizations. He represented NW Natural Gas.

There appears to be a theme of sorts with any affiliates of the CRC, Governor Inslee as well. Doubletalk with a forked tongue I tell ya!

Hey, at least YOU got a response, even though it was typical pro-CRC BS. Seems to me it was a bit of a reactionary response you received, though. One thing I remember at the meeting...they're quite nervous about the Washington State Senate they should be.

goldenoldie — March 16, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just got back from the 17th town hall at Firstenburg. There wasn't a lot on the CRC - Benton and Harris tag-teamed on a lot of issues. To hear Benton talk, the CRC is dead in it's current plan; Sen King is on record that the CRC is a NoGo until light rail is dropped, and he has the votes in the Senate to make this stick. He also noted that all these construction jobs to build the bridge will be short term, and that not that many will come from here - that most contractors that work on specialty projects like bridges have their own crews that they bring with them.

A big topic was education funding. They surprised me on this. Harris says the State's #1 priority is education, and we've got to make up a however many billions shortfall in the next few years to satisfy a Court decision. In his mind, education spending comes first. Once that is covered, then they can move on to other areas and fight over where that money will come from. Benton wants to spend on tried and true programs that data says will help lead to high school graduation. For example, he noted that if someone isn't reading at grade level when done with the 3rd grade, then their chance of H.S. graduation decreases significantly. They want State funded kindergarten throughout the state (it seems Evergreen's taxpayer funded program is not the norm), and they want ESL programs cut from 7 years to 3 in length - this will force learning English and assimilating to the mainstream much quicker. They both supported Battle Ground's levy, though why that was a topic here escaped me.

Harris spent quite a bit of time explaining how gun control failed - it seems every time the Speaker thought the votes were there, someone bailed. Most in the crowd ate that up - I think it was what many were there for.

Benton noted that the will of the voters was thwarted by the Supreme Court striking down the 2/3 rule, and that the Senate (in this session at least) is committed to maintaining it in practice. He also noted that the Court decision is probably a blessing in disguise - people will have to study candidates more closely so they know who they're getting.

This is the first time I met Benton in person - he's actually a quite pleasant person. I spoke with him for a bit afterward, and it was actually a two-way conversation - most of these guys hear what the topic is and go on their bully pulpit. There was something about Harris that rubbed me the wrong way - he seemed quite artificial, and made a couple of snide comments about holding Monica responsible for how she voted on something next election time.

roger — March 16, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Two people in attendance at the morning Democrat meeting were Anne McEnerny-Ogle and Jeanne Harris. Anne seemed to be known by and quite popular with many in attendance - a very pleasant, outgoing person. Harris is another story - she seemed to be looking for someone or something, and most of the time was off by herself looking somewhat unhappy. She showed up when I was talking with the union lady, who I personally liked (comment for Goldie) - we had been speaking for a few minutes when I gather Ms. Harris decided my time was up and I needed to move on. Really a quite pushy b....

roger — March 16, 2013 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, roger, can like the woman all you want. I haven't a problem with it. What I will say is this. My first impression of her was that she's quite confident in her stance. Second impression... opportunistic, limited in her ability to listen to both sides...hence her comment about the "other side trying to stop progress" which is a bunch of Hockey Louie (to express it within the parameters of the rules of the forum). We're trying to stop a project riddled with divisive manipulation of the taxpayers through deception and lies. We want our money's worth and we want a project which will do what it is set out to do. We're trying to stop a project which is obviously based on MAX...especially a light rail system with a history of debt and is now showing a reduction of ridership since April of last year as well as lower ridership numbers since November of 2010...and we want a project which will build on our community with a positive result. The current project does not meet our standards.

Third impression...well, let's just say at least between the two of us, she has one admirer.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

**Facts and Fallacies I observed at the Town Hall:**

**Fact** - our freeway on ramps are in desperate need of a re do. (Since most commuters don't have a clue as to how to merge, the "more lanes are better" mentality with regards to this project will be interesting.)

**Fallacy** - Ms. Boyd pointed out the GRESHAM maintenance facility funding request in the CRC project for $51 million would be used to maintain, repair and operate the current as well as new Yellow Line rail cars they'll need for increased ridership. (Answer me this if it's the truth - What are they using now for the same rail cars using the Yellow Line to Delta Park??? They're speaking of cutting service to meet budgetary needs, let alone...the same service throughout Portland will operate the same hours in Vancouver.)

**Fact** - According to Mr. Kris Strickler, Oregon's Director of the CRC, Oregon Governor Kitzhaber stated mitigation costs will not come out of the $450 million package he signed. More money into the project from somewhere else???

**Fact** - Cyclists, pedestrians AND mass transit users will not pay for tolls.

**Fallacy** - Scot Walstra stated he was a citizen member on the advisory committee.

**Fact** - Scot Walstra is an economic adviser who was on the Port of Camas/Washougal as Director of Planning and Development. At the time of the advisory panel which he was a member, he represented NW Natural Gas. He is currently Vice President of the Cowlitz Economic Development Council.

**Fact** - The number one concern stressed at the Town Hall meeting was the fear of damage from an earthquake and an urgency to replace the bridge since the ground underneath is unstable. Mr. Strickler stated a bridge retrofit would not hold up as well as a new bridge. The new bridge would also sit on the same unstable ground as the current bridge. No comment made to that fact.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**Fallacy** - LRT is the only option the Federal Government would accept in order to gain funding for the bridge. (LRT is not the only option. It was the preferred option by the panels who voted.)

**Fact** - The voters should be the ones to make the decision on HOV/BRT/LRT *NOT* the advisory groups.

**Fallacy** - we need to hook up to the 60+ miles of light rail. We'd be fools not to. Nobody will come to Clark County for business needs.

**Fact** - This is clearly coercion by the promoters of MAX to Vancouver. MAX will only service a limited region of downtown, NOT CLARK COUNTY. (We have a perfectly-good transit system here in Clark County. Why would we want to hook up with MAX in order to bring good business? Our own county must find incentives to bring good business and it should start with upgrading our own transit system to BRT, not only on Fourth Plain but on Hwy 99, Mill Plain and eventually 162nd Avenue...along with financial incentives to attract new businesses.)

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: Anne Ogle has many admirers beside little ol' moi. I am a tiny drop in a big bucket. People who have worked beside her for years know that she rolls up her sleeves and works hard to make our city a much better place. Don't make up your mind simply because I like her and you love to be oppositional with me. :)

She doesn't need your endorsement, thankfully, to be successful, but you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

I do love the first amendment!

manthou — March 17, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The person our 2008 Republican Party chose to be America's Vice President of these United States. A heartbeat away from the presidency.

Will Sarah run again? I love her message (and many others at CPAC) about not changing a thing about her party. (the republican party for those who aren't clear)

It's now crystal clear who best speaks for the GOP. She does a great job articulating the thought processes of republican constituents.

To all those who tried their best to vote her into power, this is for you. Enjoy!

Don't mean to interrupt this fascinating light rail discussion for too long. (I'm sure it's about to heat up! ;) Just throwing a gift of conservative reenforcement to our RW basement dwellers while offering a source of amusement to others.

Thanks. [shuffling out the door]

At CPAC, Calls for Fresh Ideas Are Followed By The Same Stale Shtick

Like many CPAC attendees, Palin believes that the party doesn’t need new ideas, because those ideas—immigration reform and gay marriage, for instance—would supposedly betray conservative principles. Keep losing elections, but lose with dignity.

But it’s also that Palin isn’t in the ideas business. She is, as loudly reaffirmed in her CPAC speech, a peddler of resentment, and a worldview of conservative victimology obsessively focused on the media gatekeepers and corrupt political consultants they see distorting a political message that, if not interfered with by liberal ideologues, would be embraced by most all Americans. It’s a common theme at CPAC: it’s not our ideas, it’s how the media distorts our ideas. Circling the conference center was a truck sponsored by the Media Research Center, a conservative watchdog group, displaying the message that the “liberal media” was “censoring the news.”

Read more @

nailingit — March 17, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal to explain where you think I am against Anne Ogle? A rather blatant attack by you this morning...or is it because today is the day for blarney??? I was speaking of the union lady which roger referred to that he likes...or that's who it sounded like he was referring.

Roger, maybe you could clarify that point.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

*Don't mean to interrupt this fascinating light rail discussion for too long. (I'm sure* **it's about to heat up! ;)**


nailingit — March 17, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou and Goldie - I think this is a misconception on Manthou's part as to who Goldie was referring to, and that it was caused by Goldie's negative response to my earlier comment about the labor leader falling in the comment queue directly after where I was making a positive observation about Anne too many names. An honest mistake, with no need to spend the next 3 days analyzing what may or may not be behind it.

Goldie - Just the fact that Shannon Walker is union is enough for her to be the enemy in your book. As I've observed repeatedly, the real push for this project comes from the rich businessmen that Montague and Parker are representing. People who the Repub party traditionally supports. Perhaps you recall Dino Rossi campaigning for Tim Leavitt? You and Lew Waters both need to grasp that on the local level political ideology (and consequently party) is often more a matter of convenience; who is buying that person is usually much more important. And in this case, on our side of the river we keep getting back to who will cash in if the CRC is built by the current plan. Walker and her union will turn against this project if they don't get the jobs to build it.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I've noticed a trend at these pointless CRC meetings- they all talk about if we get *the big one* (Earthquake). That's why the new bridge is needed because we might need a new one. Kinda like going and buying a helmet before looking/purchasing the bike b/c u might fall and scratch ur knee.

Do they still do sonic booms on the 5?

Nailingit- Yea that's sounds about right about lightrail- I think someone popped the estrogen balloon in here or menopause.

As for Sarah Palin...she is annoying. Tina fey would be better for the job.

andrecht — March 17, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A ton of excellent information shared this week- I just can't believe it's not butter.

andrecht — March 17, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh - I liked Shannon because she was very straight forward; not a bunch of mealy mouthing and saying a lot without saying much of anything, like most who were there. Does she have an agenda? Of course, don't we all when it comes to this project? In her case, it's to put money into the pockets of those she represents. In my case, it's to keep as much of the money I earn in my pocket. But sorry - I don't find it necessary to like or dislike people based on their beliefs about things like religion and politics. As I noted earlier, on meeting my favorite facebook nemesis Mike Briggs, I like him. And I liked Don Benton. Opposite ends of the political spectrum, but both very congenial people.

In fact, I even like Nails, even though he's hopelessly enamored with the uberLiberal agenda and that condescending young Stanford grad he thinks knows everything. His sharing my belief in what constitutes great music is enough for me. (A comeback to 10:39 a.m., by the way.)

roger — March 17, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal

RE: Butter. Also a lot of talk about birds. My cats are outside admiring them too.

Sonic booms on the I5? Do you mean the cannons to scare the starlings off? I can't swear to it, but I think they gave up. Starlings are of tougher character than to run from a little boom. Hmmm... I wonder where they'll go when the old bridge is gone? Do birds just move on, or do they find new places to sit around while being birds? The Hilton comes to mind - they can target the people on the sidewalk below.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: You mentioned the Honolulu light rail project yesterday briefly and it piqued my interest.

Seems like it was derailed in Federal court in November:

In December, however, it seems to have been given a reprieve:

I imagine that we are going to see legal wrangling the likes of which is unsurpassed in recent history, too.

Who pays for that but the taxpayers, too?


manthou — March 17, 2013 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 17, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.

if you ARE talking about the propane cannons, yes, they just put them back up a few weeks ago. They will be making boom-boom soon.

As for the tolls, I still support raising the sales tax .5% and eliminating the Oregon tax free status.

hawkeye — March 17, 2013 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger- Thanks for the kind words- I think. :) And I also like you, in spite of your enamoration with hopelessly flawed ideology and the politics that accompany it. :))

Glad to hear you met Mike Briggs and liked him. If not for any other reason, maybe CRC meetings are beneficial in finding some common ground with others who share a different viewpoint and CRC opinions.

From what I've read Briggs posts are respectful, personal and well thought. (why don't you invite him to the basement, we can always use a fresh outlook). In large part what makes CRC such a partisan issue are intolerant tea party supporter types (conservatives) who not only push anti-light rail, but enjoy flaming vitriol speak to go with it.

Which brings us to today's OP-ED. {:O)

This is a partisan issue in large part because this small faction of Fox News/Limbaugh Bagger faithful (frustrated conservative holdovers from the Ross Perot crowd) want so desperately to seek and destroy...

[headphone time]

...government entities which don't fit their ideology/views of big government spending. (though no one spent like Reagan & Bush) The latest GOP Fad Fraud is the wanting of government to be so small as to "drown it in a bathtub". That is until they get into power. Then they have a "mandate" to spend on war and corporate welfare. This thought process combined with the "I've got mine and screw anyone else" mentality make up much of this Anti-CRC crowd in my opinion.

The Cranes, the Waters, Ozzie and Harriet, these guys who are not only pushing 106, but most likely will never utilize the services they so loudly denounce do more harm than good for your cause. Even in the basement awhile back someone said our very existence is threatened if LR is approved.


So many local conservatives sound so absolutely ridiculous concerning light rail, it clouds coherent and thoughtful messaging and makes one wonder if any exists from the Anti-CRC crowd. Get rid of the nuts who enjoy watching (and hoping) the world burn and your movement will gain some credibility and possibly a little more traction.

But then your anti-LR crowd would be reduced by 85% +.

Still, better to have a few intelligent thoughtful voices than a loudmouthed mob who believe they have all the facts on their side while asking *God* to intervene and bless your movement.

nailingit — March 17, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As for Sarah Palin...she is annoying. Tina fey would be better for the job.

andrecht — March 17, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.

100% in agreement!

nailingit — March 17, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Unfortunately, the same group (GVCC) who said a sales tax for the light rail O&M; was a bad move because it would hurt their business also opposes sales tax for Oregonians for the same reason. Which would be OK EXCEPT their leader Parker is also among the most vocal supporters of the project.

We had starlings back in PA - they'd swarm in a giant cloud certain times of the year. Once City Council actually allowed us to sit in one park with our shotguns and shoot them. (This got old quickly, and when some idiot decided to shoot at the ducks instead they banned it.) About the time I moved to AZ they gave up and named the starling the town bird. If you can't beat them.... Sooner or later we'll learn the same lesson here. Those starlings don't scare easily.

Hmmm - The bridge is in the PDX glide path. I'm surprised FAA hasn't banned the use of these cannons.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


That used to be a favorite with the metalheads in the Special Ops world.

A punk band called Agent Orange covered the song on A Punk Tribute To Metallica. Someone made this video to their version.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


RE: Inviting Mike B to comment here. No. Yelling at you is strenuous enough.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 17, 2013 at 5:07 p.m.

I would guess that if put to a vote, one half of one percent instead of tolls would fly right thru. It's a whole different story. Let's rake a poll here....


I don't think the cannons really bother the planes, they seem to be a little higher than the bridge.

hawkeye — March 17, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — March 17, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.

A misconception on your part, roger. Because I was irritated with the methodology witnessed at the Town Hall and the inappropriate outburst of raucous applause and hoots and hollers by the union members in the back of the if they had to make excessive noise because nobody else would...union members who were then allowed to leave at noon (for a reason I care not to explain from what I heard at the Town Hall because you'll probably claim it's because I'm anti union for which I am not)...even though we were all expected to refrain from such ways but they acted as if they didn't have to abide by the suggestions by Ms. Boyd and company, you think I hate unions? Sir, this is where I say you've stepped over the line when you said *"Just the fact that Shannon Walker is union is enough for her to be the enemy in your book."* She is not my enemy. I absolutely agreed with her comment that it's time for the people to work. I applaud her for holding such a status with the unions. Women still have difficulty getting to the top with equal pay these days and unions are doing their darnedest to prevent that from happening. They've turned around the jobs industry and made working conditions safer for all of us. Why would I consider them an enemy???


goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 17, 2013 at 5:16 p.m.

My vote would be a NAY. No sales tax added since Oregon wouldn't have a sales tax implemented to pay their fair share.

Instead, I would agree to an AYE vote for $1 tolls **permanently** in order to pay for maintenance of the bridges and the extensions/ramps within that 5 mile distance.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 6:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 6:17 p.m.

Hey, that could single handily bring back the dollar coin!

hawkeye — March 17, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie, my apologies for any misinterpretation of your comments. And maybe I've erroneously pigeon-holed you with the conservative movement that considers unions the root of our economic woes.

I would be interested in having you elaborate on the union members being allowed to leave at noon. My guess was about 120 total were there (Washington for the CRC Project is claiming 150). Somewhere around noon time at least half the crowd left - by Q&A; time when opened to the floor, there couldn't have been 50 left. And when the unscreened questions from the floor got a bit uncomfortable (like the commuter referred to in The C's article), a good number of the Wash for CRC crowd started milling around prepping for their little photo op - much ruder in my book than a very short burst of applause a couple of times from the union folks.

roger — March 17, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Time to go catch all the sports analysts talking the NCAA Bball tourney. I've got my brackets about half filled - got to see what they say and see if I can learn anything to help me win the $500 top prize!

roger — March 17, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The A-10 aircraft is a 30 mm gun with wings. Each round weighs approximately 1.5 pounds. The machine can deliver 70 rounds per second.

Tomcats (F-14) were the coolest fighter ever built. Too bad maintenance on them was so intensive/expensive.

Just sayin'. ;^)

Drift — March 17, 2013 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, I won't elaborate about what I've heard till I can have the information verified. At this time...I'm skeptical about both sides of reasoning as to why the majority of the union members left when they did...and I'm not going to become a rumor monger.

And no...I am not part of the conservative movement. In fact, I'm not part of any movement. I am my own self, acting alone on my own intuition and reasoning based on facts presented to me. Yeah, sometimes I might make a decision or have an opinion I later regret for mentioning but I believe everyone does at least once in their lives.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

and Roger...apology accepted. Sorry if I misled you regarding that.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"For Whom the Bell Tolls" is the next tune after "Seek and Destroy."

And F-14s still rock!

Drift — March 17, 2013 at 7:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As do the F-18 Hornets.

goldenoldie — March 17, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

any military plane (jets, helicopters...) is awesome.

does anybody know a place to fish that a disabled person could get to? i can walk, but need either leveled or cleared surface.

DeeLittle — March 18, 2013 at 12:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle — March 18, 2013 at 12:38 a.m.

What type of fish do you plan to go for??? Battleground Lake has disabled parking right on the lake but it's limited. Horseshoe Lake in Woodland also has easy access. There's a multitude of lakes and streams all over Clark County with easy access. If you like winter steelhead fishing, Lewisville Park has excellent decks positioned just right over a hot spot...but you want to check the site for fishing regulations and seasons or pick up their book of regulations...usually at Freddies or any store that sells fishing supplies.

Most people do need a Discover Pass to multiple lakes and streams including those in State Parks. Here's a few links to help you:

In case you haven't received a fishing license in recent years, here's some information regarding fishing in WDFW lands and waterways.

I hope this has helped you.

goldenoldie — March 18, 2013 at 5:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

DeeLittle...also, if you plan to try your hand at fishing along the Columbia River some day, there's new regulations about the use of hooks with barbs. The barbs must be pinched or removed in most areas below the McNary Dam which includes our region.

goldenoldie — March 18, 2013 at 5:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — March 17, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.

I thought they were still making those little gold-colored presidential dollars??? They would be handy for that for sure!

goldenoldie — March 18, 2013 at 5:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oops! New week!



nailingit — March 18, 2013 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

thanks, goldie. trout are my favorite, but if i can cook it, it passes the test

DeeLittle — March 18, 2013 at 7:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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