Open forum, May 27-June 2

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249 comments

Comments

Cross-cut's excellent 4 part series by Douglas MacDonald, "Trans-poor-tation" should be mandatory reading for all Washington voters. It informed me more than anything of the "big picture" problems facing our state with regards to adequate infrastructure funding.

Because this series was published BEFORE the Skagit bridge collapse, it almost seems prescient in its relevance now.

I learned a lot from taking the time to read this and I hope you all do, too. Cross-cut is my go-to source for balanced reporting on all things Washington:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://crosscut.com/transportation/Trans-poor-tation/

manthou — May 27, 2013 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Speaking of Washington's Transportation revenue package, I read somewhere this weekend (I am trying to locate the source to cite) that our esteemed legislators MIGHT be thinking of taking a revenue proposal to the voters, rather than deciding for themselves.

The current package is woefully inadequate to fund infrastructure repair and REPLACEMENT. It barely covers maintenance.

Will the legislature come up with a new revenue package during this special session? Anyone willing to place bets? :)

Looks like punting to the voters may be their choice eventually? Then we can get blamed for the next bridge collapse or dam failure or ?????

Lots to study so that informed decisions can be made.

manthou — May 27, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

If you like the citrus beers, try this local one - Hopworks IPA. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/16353/39201

roger — May 27, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


O come on, Holy. There really is not much harm in having a beer. Yea, if you indulge daily and down the six pack,...we had company here for a long weekend. Along with the great BBQ, we also indulged in beer tasting, 15 varieties. Nobody was drunk. A good time was had by all. Even I had a full beer!

Hawk and Roger, tried a local brew called Gigantic yet? Truly a marvelous brew.Brewed right in Portland.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 8:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Something is wrong in Stupidville, hummmm isn't that kind of an oxymoron?

holycrapola — May 27, 2013 at 8:11 a.m

Apparently you never learned this phrase, ***"everything in moderation".***

You must be one of those, push to the limit, guys. Fast life, burnout. Have at it, it's your funeral.

Oh, and you are the one living in "Stupidville", not us.

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And while I'm here,

Since this is Memorial Day, I'd like to thank ALL of those that have served and kept this Country safe. That includes my Father that passed several years ago but finally got recognized as a "real" serviceman for his duty in the Merchant Marines.

***Thank you all!***

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Sending the Transportation revenue package to the voters was the plan until the State Court threw out the requirement to vote on tax increases. Many of the legislators have said it still needs to go this direction - I'm thinking I've read where Toms and King are both in this camp.

I don't see the revenue package passing, with or without the CRC, if it goes to a vote. The now $8.4 billion package is largely for new construction and not repairing the current infrastructure. And while it has as its cornerstone a fairly affordable 10 cents per gallon gas tax implemented over a few years (I'm figuring this would cost me about $50 per year), they also threw into the mix a couple of annual vehicle registration fees, to include a tab fee that could end up costing us much more. And there's also a little discussed provision to allow local municipalities to implement their own taxes and fees for transit projects - something I suspect Vancouver City Council is much in favor of.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


'Scuse me while I kiss the sky

roger — May 27, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holy, I drink alcohol once in a blue moon. No wine at dinner, or holidays or any other typical occasions. But dangit, if I want a good beer, I want a good beer. I see nothing wrong with that. I doubt my measly alcohol consumption kills off even one cell. Good things in a good beer, too. Ergo the old saying: give us our daily beer.
Let's not overreact to everything. Moderation is the key.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Not to be pedantic, but -

Memorial Day is about recognizing those who've paid the ultimate price in their service to this country. The dead cannot acknowledge your recognition for their sacrifice.

Memorial Day is for the living. A single day out of 365 when the living give thanks knowing there are those among us who would die to preserve our way of life. And the dead are innumerable.

If you would care to thank me for the time I spent partying aboard an aircraft carrier, I'd be happy to respond with a "Da nada," come veterans' day. This day is not mine, a living breathing veteran.

And with that written, today I will pour a dram of alcohol onto the earth. It's an Irish custom associated with honoring the memory of the departed. For those I "set sail" with, but were not aboard when I returned to port.

Cheers, guys.

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cheers Drift, make sure you have a dram left for yourself!

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 27, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

:)))

nailingit — May 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 27, 2013 at 9:24 a.m

You seem to be under the impression that everybody that has a drink is "addicted" to alcohol. Everybody that has a drink is abusing their bodies. (If you believe that, then everybody that runs or jogs is abusing their bodies as well, destroying their feet and knees, etc.) I will have a drink on occasion because I like the taste of it. No different to having a cut of prime rib, on occasion. Like I said, everything in moderation. As for it being a "habit", I guess I have the habit of a beer every two weeks or so. I think you'd be hard pressed to classify that as a "habit". Now, running every week or day or every other day, sounds like a body destroying habit to me.

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On this day I stand humbly and pour a jigger of whiskey onto the ground in memory of my Dad, 5 uncles and fatherinlaw all passed now for their service during WW11 and Korea.

I pour in memory of cousins, friends, and classmates that are no longer with us for their service during Vietnam.

I pour in memory to family, friends, friend's sons and daughters, and neighbors who are not with us that serviced in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Salute to those passed on that served this great country that helped keep our freedoms, rights and our land safe. RIP

ELISI — May 27, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 27, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.

Hopefully you didn't take that to mean my own choice - Kesey is taking us for a ride on Further.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 10:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails - See what I mean?

roger — May 27, 2013 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 27, 2013 at 12:16 p.m

You are soooooo full of it. LOL!

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> I have met a few of these evangelical
> zealots who bagged jobs as teachers in
> our public schools. They make no bones
> about this mission to "convert" the
> seven pillars and thereby gain
> control. . . . There is a narcissistic
> and ethno-centric world view in this
> that is dysfunctional and frankly, a
> little scary. manthou — May 26, 2013
> at 10:20 a.m

i, too, find goings-on in schools scary. the professors whose resumes include bombings is a good start. rabid socialists and leftists busily tearing up any pro-USA inclinations they may find in students. using some very alarming techniques from some very radical how-to manuals.

i propose we agree to this: demand our colleges teach REAL KNOWLEDGE. philosophy that comes from B.C. sources; socrates, etc. the beauty of symmetry and rationality found in science and mathematics.
and how all these things teach us HOW, not WHAT, to think.

to paraphrase professor kingsfield (The Paper Chase), " You come in here with a skull full of mush and you leave thinking!"

how about it?

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**ELISE**

thank you. i'm there in spirit.

everyone, remember those returning with life-altering injuries, physical *and* psychological.

for those so inclined, **Wounded Warriors** is a wonderful charity

God, may we never have to take up arms in defense of life, liberty and freedom anywhere in the word, ever again..

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"For those of you that have never been in the middle of an armed conflict and seeing the killing, the maiming first hand, the destruction and the forever changed lives of the ones that had to endure it, I ask a minute of silence."

HC - Have you been there? If not, then I suggest you keep your more than useless opinions to yourself - All you've been doing so far today is to show your ignorance.

There - Is that clear enough, pogue?

roger — May 27, 2013 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, teaching about BC sources, how to think, etc. are all taught in liberal arts classes. those courses a certain set likes to get rid off, turning colleges into trade schools.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 12:56 p.m

Right on the mark Dee! ;)

ELISI — May 27, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And Dee, I have not yet ever encountered a professor with a resume including bombings, not one who wants to get rid of any proUSA inclinations in students, etc., but I have encountered a few who decided their class room should be turned into bible school.
Rw talking points.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Last year I did a book signing at an event over in Forest Grove. One of my old shipmates is the proprietor of a motorcycle shop there (Fried Fred, now known as Wild Bill).

Sales were skimpy, but I did manage about 60 bones in royalties. Those, along with monies from the event, went to the Returning Veterans Project: http://www.returningveterans.org/

The event is a bike/car show party type thing. There's chow and live music, raffles, etc. Tent space is abundant. I'll be managing/judging a horseshoe pitching tournament (Mrs. Drift won last year!).

I'm also taking out my ol' Pan chop. I've yet to see a *real* chopper at the show. There will be one this year.

It's being held July 20. roger, you might be interested.

I'll post a reminder as we get closer.

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*roger — May 27, 2013 at 1:14 p.m
There - Is that clear enough, pogue?*

Oh roger you do make me smile ;)

ELISI — May 27, 2013 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As for earning your respect - Sorry - I'm completely indifferent. (As you apparently have already noticed.)

Your complete disrespect for what others here find important came through loud and clear today.

Hey - I've an idea - Why not bounce over to Lew Waters' website and see if they're talking about you again?

I think I'm liking that kid Jasonb more and more every day.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye @ 12:21 - That's the understatement of the day.

Drift - Sounds like a good time - I'm good with admiring bikes; I just don't like riding them.

Elisi - Glad to put a little humor into your day.

Dee - I'm sure every Vet, and family member of a Vet, on this page shares in saying that prayer with you. Maybe someday it'll actually come true.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I repeat..why does an Assessor or a County Auditor has to be a politically elected position instead of a technocrat...

holycrapola — May 27, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.

Seriously, who gives a rats patooty? All I care is that they "has" to be qualified. Seems that would be enough.

BTW, if you don't like it, change it yourself. Maybe your buddy Madore can help you out.

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I'm obviously mistaken. I thought it was you who'd posted a pic of "your" bike for a short time, but then reverted to something having to do with autism (frickin' potheads, I tell ya ;^)

I'm not sure why you guys choose to engage HC. I'm thinking the cat should start his (his?) own blog. I'm thinking the basement is more about discussing views and opinion rather than near incoherent ramblings. That's what blogs are for, right? Incoherent ramblings? Please, don't tell me I've been doing it wrong! ;^)

Though I *did* bite on that Beth Hart concert. I think I want to have her babies, man. I suppose I should offer thanks for that. Thanks, HC.

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Really, HC? Stooping to disrespecting a lady who doesn't even play here? You are a classy guy, my man.

You seem to have a problem - A shallowness that defines everything in terms of black and white. You actually remind me more of the Limbaughs and the Becks of the world - It's your way or it's the wrong way.

I know what war is - Why men and nations fight them, what it's like to see someone die, and what it's like to turn around a few years later and discover that someone who was my enemy is now my friend. I, like most in uniform, have a very strong cynicism for the "rightness" of the reasons our politicians decide we need to go to war. But once there, war takes on a very different meaning - it acquires a very human perspective, because people are involved. You have to be able to shoot someone one moment, and then possibly patch that same person up to save their life a short time later.

You, on the other hand, know nothing other than what someone has told you. There's a bottom line here - I know what you're talking about, but you're clueless as to what I'm talking about. Which is probably a good thing, by the way. People who talk crap like you do are usually the first to cut and run.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger, I think HC is watching the new "Blaze" channel. Either that or he got a new espresso machine. Either way, it really doesn't matter in the big picture.

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift,

I'm thinking that was frobert with the pic of the primo looking bike that he actually owned. Me - I'm the one who kept laying down his 650 BSA, and who finally decided to get rid of it because hauling down the highway in a '71 Roadrunner with a 426 street Hemi seemed a whole lot safer.

I do my best to ignore him - But every so often that stupid shit he spouts rubs me the wrong way.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn hc take a chill pill dude!

disrespecting the dead and the ladies, dude just where did you come from?

roger man is correct dude, you spout off bs rants.. no one's listening dude. you sound like a hippie of the 60's that has never come into your own. still trying to peddle the mellow yellow to bring back the communes.

you are seriously messed up dude. chill..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA78e2...

jasonb — May 27, 2013 at 4:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee @12:49 pm. The Paper Chase is an excellent movie. It’s hard to imagine anyone in the role of Professor Kingsfield other than John Houseman. He really stole the show. If memory serves, in the scene where Hart is roaming around Kingsfield’s house in his shorts and goes into the Den, I saw a version once, where Hart picked up a framed photo of Albert Einstien which had an inscription thanking Kingsfield for helping him through some troubling times. I only saw that once. The later version deleted that. Maybe they thought that was a little over the top.

kn_dalai — May 27, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yeah, it was fro. I'm not sure how I got tangled there. You are still welcome to come out and carry on with the rest of us, though...maybe help to help out someone in the process (shrug).

It's a family event. There's normally games for the kiddies, too (for them with the younguns).

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 4:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> And Dee, I have not yet ever
> encountered a professor with a resume
> including bombings, not one who wants
> to get rid of any proUSA inclinations
> in students, etc., but I have
> encountered a few who decided their
> class room should be turned into bible
> school. Rw talking points.
>
> luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.

if you believe this is not a provocative statement showing totally ingrained bias, then all i have to say is, 'have a great life'.

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nothing matters unless you get off your butt and do something, otherwise one that does get off his butt, takes advantage of the opportunity you discarded...

holycrapola — May 27, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.

pot/kettle?

hawkeye — May 27, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, you think I showed bias? Nope, I was talking about what I have seen over quite a number of years as a student and working in higher Ed. Now if you had said that a majority of the profs are of the liberal bend, i would have agreed. Quite a different statement. Then we could have discussed the reasons why.

You think your statement had no bias? Where do you get those points that higher Ed is trying to get rid of pro USA inclinations, whatever that is supposed to be?

I do agree with you that higher Ed should instill thinking skills. For the most part the topics you mention are taught actually. One reason why students are required to take a multitude of different courses in different subjects besides their major. A little exposure to different cultures and different thinking, as well as learning about a variety of topics, has never hurt anybody.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 4:29 p.m***

as i said, have a great life.

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 5 p.m. ( | suggest removal


To all those who have served in the past...Thank You. Rest in Peace. Here's a shot for you Grandpa! Thx MX for sending me this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvynP...

Some people on this forum r ignorant & can't understand what this day means. I feel very sorry for u.

andrecht — May 27, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,I agree with you 100%.It is very easy to say what you would do if you were in battle.It is the most terrifying thing that one can imagine.When you are 18 years old it makes you grow up real fast.Then when it is over and you have to load the wounded and the dead in the medi-vacs it becomes all to real.Those that say what they would do have no clue.I thought I was tough when I was 18.I was not ready to do and see what I did.It is a life changing experence.I know, I have been there and done that.Viet Nam 69 and 70.Tell me and the rest here what have you done?Talk the talk then walk the walk.Drift let me when this show is I may be able to get a few classic cars to come.

timerick — May 27, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick, I think you were asking someone else, but my own answer is what I call Reagan's wars - events that never happened, but somehow soldiers died anyhow.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, not you.

timerick — May 27, 2013 at 5:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


as i said, have a great life.

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 5 p.m.

Thank you Dee, I will. We are still all entitled to our opinion; I guess mine disagrees with yours. If you rather not speak to me again because I disagree, so be it.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick - I got it.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 6:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


facts as I see 'em-

We ARE the military-industrial complex-and our elected critters cowtow to that. Think Rockwell, General Dynamics, Boeing; gawd, the list is endless. Might wanna check out the "RIOT software" developed by Rockwell-checks out your FB to predict your future locations and behavior. Keep in mind the federal government intercepts & records 1.7B emails, faxes, FB bs and cellphone calls DAILY. It's not out of the realm to expect DOJ pigs out here to check me out tomorrow.
But we trust 'em, right?

Who do you think has empirical desires? China? Yea, right. Who spends $B on "foreign aid"? Who has a military base in damn near every country on the planet? You know. Who has almost 90% of the arms trade? You know. Who is, claiming the lie of "promoting democracy" arms the world? Who consumes so much we rape the only planet we have? Who has such a screwed up system we have a legislative body with an approval rating approaching single digits and yet, miraculously, we re-elect 91% of these clowns? As a country, we can't place in the top 20 for health, education, and welfare? Yet most folks will wrap themselves in the flag, pledge allegiance, and support the one of the most corrupt, biased, controlled, and bought/paid for system of elected crap the world has ever seen. As an added irony, we promote it, expect others to embrace it. To add further insult, many believe their ballot/vote will change things. Wake up! At the federal level, your vote is totally meaningless. Irag is better represented, as their legislator/population ratio is much higher than ours. But then again, maybe they haven't prostituted their elections (yet) to the point this country has.

As we circle in the toilet, we're reaping our rewards. Hit the lever-get it over with.

mrd — May 27, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> If you rather not speak to me again
> because I disagree, so be it.
>
> luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 5:59 p.m

of course not. it's a simple matter of whether i'm responding to being baited.

you *honestly* know of NO PROFESSORS currently teaching in universities who have weatherman terrorist organization backgrounds...? who have proclaimed in their classroom lectures the gullibility and stupidity of christians..? none who say, essentially, "we got what we deserved" on 9/11?

if you know of nobody who fits any of that, there's no point in any further discussion.

on a different topic, what are your opinions about the current irs issue? do you believe the irs should also control all of our health care information?

.

DeeLittle — May 27, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee, there was no baiting planned. I do not ever bait people on this forum. I answered your post with my opinion.

If you refer to the idiot in Colorado, he got fired. And lost every lawsuit he tried. Good thing, too.
If you are referring to the stomping incident in Florida, then I have to say the student was dumb. If he would have kept his mouth shut for three minutes, he would have learned the aim of the exercise. He was not forced to stomp on anything.

Please do not think all professors are out to get us or change anything. Most are just trying to teach what they are supposed to teach. You get a few idiots everywhere. Every place, every industry. But do not think for a minute that universities are hotbeds of sedition or whatever. They are not. I was reacting to a statement that implies that our universities are trying their best to somehow tweak the students into anti-American thinking (whatever that is supposed to be). Religion should NOT be a classroom topic, except in the religion courses, which most colleges actually offer (in the form of comparative or historical perspectives). Just as I do not like to think that a prof wastes his time with proclaiming Christians stupid, I hope he also steers clear of the rest of the world's religions. Let us not single any of them out.

I think what I am trying to say is,and not doing too well I guess, is: let's not paint with too broad a brush. Certain media do try to make it sound bad, but my guess is none of them ever spent too much time in a place of higher ed.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 6:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry Dee, saw your comment re IRS too late. The IRS needs to clean house, period. Things there need to be cleaned out, period. I am not yet too sure that the folks there will control our healthcare info. What's control? Controlling or knowing?
But then, if you think your healthcare info is private right now... We have lost a lot of our privacy a long time ago, sad to say.

luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If ever I was asked what has been the singular most important event in human history, I’ve always thought my answer would be the invasion of Normandy: D-Day. There’s the invention of the printing press, and the Apollo program, many other things, but the immense planning, execution and even sheer luck involved, is hard to compare to anythng else when considering the events of the time and what was at stake.

I once sat next to a gentleman on a flight overseas, a long time ago now. Somehow, it came up that he was a WWII vet and had been part of the Normany Invasion Force. Omaha Beach as I recall. When I asked him which wave, he said the first. I still remember my thoughts as he said that. The most he really said about the whole thing was how he didn’t know why he was one of the lucky ones, unlike so many others that day. There was a slight crack in the voice and I noticed a little welling in the eyes, so while I would liked to have heard more, I knew enough to leave it alone.

Just thought I’d mention that.

You may recall, that several years ago, the Columbian stopped printing free obits. It’s a business decision, and understandable considering the loss of revenue over the advent of the Internet. What did bother me though, was that this happened at a time when WWII vets were dying at an ever increasing rate. Not everyone has faired so well. And sometimes even the price of an obit may be a little too much for some. And also, maybe some of those men, ended up not having much in life, other than what might have been an acknowedgement of their service, in a Columbian obituary. I’m not criticizing the Columbian, as they have to do what they have to do, but am lamenting the outcome and wondering if another way could have been found in regards to vets.

Thank you.

kn_dalai — May 27, 2013 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift let me when this show is I may be able to get a few classic cars to come.

timerick — May 27, 2013 at 5:21 p.m.

Received.

As we get closer I'll post more definitive details.

It appears the website is in the midst of renovation, but this part is up: http://ironhorse-garage.com/?page_id=20

Erm, I see it looks like I go to work at 11 hundred.

Should you call, call the guy what answers the phone Fred. It'll freak him out. Snork.

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Drift.I suppose if I call this guy Fred I can plan on a black eye or broken nose?Thanks Roger I should of worded it different,sorry.I think you know who I was talking about.

timerick — May 27, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Then we could have discussed the reasons why. -- luvithere — May 27, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.

And just what are the reasons why?

kn_dalai — May 27, 2013 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Naw, timerick. He was known as Fried Fred back when we were on the boat. He'll be taken aback, and then most likely ask if you know Drift (or Jim). Consider it a referral ;^)

Drift — May 27, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***kn_dalai — May 27, 2013 at 7:19 p.m.***

i'm amazed there were any first wave soldiers who lived after *that day*, forget after all THIS time.

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 3:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn, what do you think the reasons are?

I got to get ready to go to work so can't do much discussing here now. But without any partisan political bias from anybody, seriously, why are profs more liberal?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 5:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thinking with paper and pencil, luv.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Kn_Dalai and Dee,

When stationed in Germany I took a trip to the Colleville region of Normandy to see the landing beaches and the American Cemetery. The French do an outstanding job of keeping the area up and of maintaining the dignity of all the cemeteries there.

roger — May 28, 2013 at 6:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: You are the most talented "wingman" I have ever had on any Forum ever. :) Sorry I missed the fun last night. I was elsewhere.....

DeeLittle: Here is a New York Times short article about liberal bias in academia. I like it because it cites some actual studies (published in peer-reviewed journals) that might help explain why there are more Democrats who become professors than there are Republicans:

[link text][1]

If you remember, I qualified my statement about what I have observed over the years in public school as ANECDOTAL. That means that my opinion was based on personal observation only, my personal story. Not evidence-based science. Over a 30 year career span in four school districts, administrators I know have had to step in several times when teachers have broken Federal and state law with respect to church/state separation. These incidents have been more frequent in the past three years, in my experience. My observation. It concerns me.

It does not have to concern you.

You might be someone who thinks that it is OK for a public school elementary teacher to scrawl on the blackboard: "We pray to Jesus" when she knows she has two children whose families follow the Islamic faith. Or for a teacher to tell a mentally ill student hiding under the desk in a psychotic panic: "The devil is speaking to you" before she erupts in prayer, escalating the situation. Those are two of the more extreme examples and they don't necessarily reflect a trend: that is why I qualified my statement with the word ANECDOTAL.

Trend or not, they just are unacceptable to me personally.

Maybe you attended a graduate school with one radical professor who advocated for violence as a means of social change. That is your anecdotal evidence, and I won't dream of trying to take that observation away from you.

Diversity is important in our society and our lives are exposed to it more and more. We all just have to live within the laws of our country until they are changed. That goes for radical professors, as well as evangelical Christian public school teachers.

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/education/edl-24notebook-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

manthou — May 28, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: The lifeguard decision was emotional and political, and it won all three CC Commissioners some brownie points at a time when they all desperately need them.

Francine Reis, according to an audio recording of a meeting, does not have time to conduct a national search for Bill Barron's replacement. Mielke is talking about giving someone from within (I think he mentioned the Public Works Director) the job on an interim basis because the citizens may be voting for Home Rule Charter in November, making the job one that is elected.

That was probably the smartest thing I have heard Mielke suggest ever.

Craig Pridemore would love that elected county administrator job. :)

manthou — May 28, 2013 at 7:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Manthou :). and good anecdotes. I got a couple myself but must work instead, so more tonight.

KN, I am not quite sure what you mean working with paper and pencil. Can you clarify?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That’s a good link manthou. I did a quick search yesterday, but did not link to anything due to the sources, which could be assailed as biased themselves, such as the Heritage Foundation, but the crux of the matter was the same: that those on the Right felt belittled and ignored by the academic establishment. A private college is one thing, but taxpayer funded universities pushing a one-sided agenda is a travesty.

A Liberal is a Conservative who hasn’t been mugged, luv. Hands on experience makes all the difference which is a good reason for as limited a government as possible. Which I do understand is simplistic, but states an idea to reach for.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 8:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the response Kn, and thanks for stating it nicely and cooly. And yes, in a public institution not one side should be pushed. NEITHER side, of course. Some things need to be stay outside of the classroom, period.

Now I disagree with you as to what a liberal is, but that's quite ok. We are allowed to differ in our opinion.
More later, work beckons.

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Kelly Sills, a county staffer who has taken the lead on researching home rule charters for the commissioners, said it was unlikely that the creating an elected county executive would end the need for an administrator."

so home rule means another six figure salary bureaucrat? To manage the same amount of employees? Wonder why, after all, the elected pos will balk at $20K to hire one, but no comment on another $100K to pay one?

mrd — May 28, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 27, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.

Not at all. I get it.

roger — May 27, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.

Oh yeah.

I tried to breech this evangelical nonsense last week, calling it cultish and ridiculous.

There is much info and many links outing this new cult as nonsense.

Also I'm sure there is a lot of $$$ and time to be fleeced from it's followers. ;)

One of the many items I detest about organized religion, weather it be Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, etc, and now this "Zeitgeist" thing, is the true believers not only share the belief their way is the only way, but all others are to be condemned. It appears this Zeitgeist church includes a disdain for American Democracy as well.

nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I remember awhile back, an older forum conservative asserted the Republican party moved far left in the last few decades. I remember the comment was so ridiculous no one bothered to comment on it.

Bob Dole was the GOP Presidential candidate just a few elections ago. Dole is a highly respected Republican, who brings both integrity and a wealth of knowledge to the table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q18eu5...

This Republican Party, as we know it, is through. Finito'! Done & over, and a part of me is genuinely sad about it. Not because of Bob, or countless others who are either condemning the party or leaving it, it's because of policy, and how those policies affect American lives.

RW Ideology has run rampant in our government, making the word compromise a sin. I already miss the open exchange of ideas, not only at the government level, but from our fellow everyday American Republicans. The RW rhetoric and political positioning has ramped up considerably in the last 30 years, and for some unknown reason, has intensified since this Kenyon born, gay (yes Gay, according to WND "news" which has become a mainstream voice for the right) communist, socialist anti-American Muslim black man took office.

We miss you Bob! Speaking to your words of wisdom, I'm reminded of your pfizer commercials, keep it up!

nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 28, 2013 at 1:34 p.m

Yadda, yadda, yadda

Put hundreds of people, businesses, providers out of work.

"It is not a religion as I said, it is a smart way of life.. Utopian at first but you must "crack the code".... ;)"

Naw, get off the crack. There is no code.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 28, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

all I can say is.... your name says it all.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

There's an article in the Wash Post which says there are only two possible Presidential candidates with the ability to lead the Repubs back from the craziness that runs their party now - Jeb Bush and Mark Rubio. They note Bush won't run, and Rubio is still a bit green. But they also note the Dems had a similar lack of real leadership during the Reagan/Bush I years, and that it was Clinton who finally led them back from the pit they were in. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/05/28/bob-dole-is-right-but-republicans-cant-follow-his-advice/

Even so, I'm thinking the problem may be worse now. Both parties are dominated by extremists and lightweights, and neither side appears willing to work back toward a middle ground.

roger — May 28, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.

Good post and glad you are back to posting more.

roger — May 28, 2013 at 5:23 p.m.
Also true stuff there. I do not want to see another Bush in office, I am still recovering as we all are but he seems to have the brains out of all of them. Rubio: a bit dangerous in my opinion, he needs to calm down with some stuff and learn a few more things first. Not quite willing to compromise either.

I think most folks are middle of the road and most want more than one party with power. That's democracy.
And we need the DC people to finally compromise. I do not see the Republicans engaging in that, and the Dems would retaliate with a GOP prez. Right back to the mess we are in now.

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou and Dee, as I said earlier, here is a story of what I ran into in higher ed.
A number of years ago, in a galaxy far away (in CA actually), I taught an intro course in psychology. Part of that involved teaching a bit of evolution and physio. I had one student, nice kid of about18, come up to me to tell me he thought the earth was 6000 years old and carbon dating was a scam. He even brought me some "scientific " papers to read. Took him aside after class and explained why I was teaching what I was teaching. I did not belittle him, no name calling, nada. He took it just as well on his side, completed my class with a nice grade, no hard feelings, no agenda in class room.

At the same time 5 of my students approached me with concerns about another psychology course. Seems the instructor was injecting heavy bible stuff into not just lecture but also tests. Disagree, points taken away.Zero reason why his particular religion had to surface in that specific course. Told the department chair who in return told me that they had talked to the instructor a few times already as complaints were mounting. Guess he was in for another talk. He was a long-term faculty member but it was getting worse each year. My feeling is that he either shut up or had to look for another job eventually.

You just do not do this kind of stuff. If you are so inclined, go teach Sunday school. You do not preach in front of a college class in a public college, and punish those who do not believe like you do.

Again, just anecdotes. Still doesn't mean that this happens daily.

As for a liberal bend among faculty, yes. I read a few publications on that also. But still do not know why they are liberals. Is it the education itself? The critical thinking skills they learned? Did that make them more liberal? Or are liberals more drawn to teaching in higher ed?

Chicken? egg?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

You taught college? And your definition of Liberal is someone who is – Nice?

Once again; look at the Nolan Chart. I’ve brought this up at least twice before. The point being that the two extremes are not Liberal and Conservative, but that the two extremes are Libertarian and Totalitarian; Liberal and Conservative being a differing mix of the two.

You are who you run with, as a particularly obnoxious Leftie once said to me on this forum before some of you ever came on board. I think he had a good point about that. Just who do you run with. And who on this board has previously been most enamored with HC? And all of his many predecessor names?

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 28, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.

Yea, sarcasm doesn't translate well in text. I found that out on the FB side. Just the facts, Ma'am.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

Maybe the conservatives are turned off by the term "liberal arts".

Just a thought.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 28, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.

One more note, if the republicans really hate Obama, they are really going to be pissed when Hillary kicks their butts in 2016.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now why did you turn nasty, kn?

Yea, I taught college, so what? Got a beef with that? Why?

My definition of liberal doesn't fit your definition of liberal, and why do I need to even spell it out? What does it matter who I run with? Who do you run with?

Do you mean I was enamored with HC? Hm, not so. He makes his points, some of them valid, some not so, eh, lucid, like we all do. I am not sure who was enamored though. Do you? Were you?

Yeesh.

Hawk-do conservatives know liberal arts?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 7:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I wish for everyone to take a good look at this. Where in my comment @6:21 pm was I nasty? And just what about my further statements is derogatory or one-sided so as to evoke a response of apparent scorn? Perhaps the word Leftie? Have you people ever looked at the descriptions so often applied to those who are not Lefties?

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk-do conservatives know liberal arts?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.

Only when looked up on Wikipedia.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn,

Re-read this:

***You taught college? And your definition of Liberal is someone who is – Nice?

Once again; look at the Nolan Chart. I’ve brought this up at least twice before.***

seems a little "snarky" to me.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There is absolutely nothing snarky about it.

Bias affects perception.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Bias affects perception.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 8 p.m

EXACTLY!

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 8:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just a quick two cents.

My business and technical courses were taught largely by people who'd actually worked in their fields - There was a tendency to focus on the preparation for our working lives, and I really didn't see much of anything in the way of politics from most. They were more into doing.

My Liberal Arts/Poli Sci days were spent largely in classes taught by students turned instructors turned professors - Their professional development was based more on thinking, and they were mostly very biased to a political philosophy. And though I was there at the end of Vietnam, we still had a fair mixture across the spectrum.

I'm thinking the government pushed the balance to the Liberal side. We had Affirmative Action, minority studies programs, womens studies program, gay rights, and a whole lot of other efforts to correct social injustices of the past. This brought a very Liberal bias to that world - And at times a very restrictive environment as well - Speak out against the "Rightness" of something and you were wrong. Period. I got a C in a course because the prof declared we are a 'salad bowl' and should celebrate the diversity - I replied that diversity is very nice, but to function as a society we need to stick with the melting pot. Whatever. This side of the higher education crowd had gone from encouraging us to think to telling us what we should think. (That was in the mid 90's - I haven't seen fit to return since.)

roger — May 28, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So if not meant snarky, what was it? Why did you ask me if I taught college and who I run with? What's up with that "liberals - nice?"
What WAS the point of your post then?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, sorry for the undeserved C. I got a B once (gasp) after i disputed something also (non-political even). Mutual loathing ever since, C on paper, B grade. What a jerk. Still rankles - lol.

I do have to say, however, I have not encountered much bias either way as a student. I don't know, maybe it was the type of courses I took? No idea. There should be NONE, either side, liberal or political. Stick to teaching what you are supposed to teach, imo.

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 8:04 p.m.

YES!

And that being the case, how can anyone have a conversation with others that are so profoundly liable to take offense at such perceived insults. The idea of using Kid Gloves comes close to describing this, but puts one at a disadvantage when trying to point out ideas lest they'll be accused of - something or another.

BTW, I've tried to discuss exactly what the ideas Liberal and Conservative really are all about. Care to give it a go? Important since those words are so frequently thrown out there, but everyone seems to have their own ideas. Not real conducive to a fruitful dialog without a common understanding of of what the issue really is.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOL

nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn,

The way I look at it is this. I'm a tad liberal, just nudging the left as it were. Lew Waters is a conservative. I would be "oil" and oil and Waters don't mix.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***Here, this is more important!***

GENEVA (AP) — International efforts to combat a new pneumonia-like virus that has now killed 22 people are being slowed by unclear rules and competition for the potentially profitable rights to disease samples, the head of the World Health Organization warned Thursday.

Dr. Margaret Chan, in a blunt warning to the U.N. agency's annual global assembly, portrayed a previously little-known flap over who owns a sample of the virus as a global game-changer that could put people's lives at risk. The virus, which first emerged in Saudi Arabia where most cases have arisen, is called MERS for Middle East respiratory syndrome.

"Please, I'm very strong on this point, and I want you to excuse me," she said. "Tell your scientists in your country, because you're the boss. You're the national authority. Why would your scientists send specimens out to other laboratories on a bilateral manner and allow other people to take intellectual property rights on a new disease?"

The controversy stems from a sample taken by Saudi microbiologist Ali Mohamed Zaki that he mailed last year to virologist Ron Fouchier at the Erasmus Medical Center in the Netherlands.

Fouchier tested, sequenced and identified it last September as a new virus. Then his private medical center patented how it synthesized the germ and required other researchers who wanted samples to first sign an agreement that could trigger a payment.

Saudi Arabia, which had the first case, said the patenting delayed its development of diagnostic kits and blood tests. "There was a lag of three months where we were not aware of the discovery of the virus," Deputy Health Minister Ziad Memish told the Geneva assembly. He said the sample was sent to the Dutch lab without official permission.

So far there is no blood test for detecting infection in communities. Memish said that patients need to be isolated because in some cases, diarrhea or vomiting may help spread the germ.

hawkeye — May 28, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn, you were not pointing out ideas when you asked me if I taught college after I just said I did. No ideas put forth when you asked me who I run with. No ideas put forth when you pointed to same chart you told us before (and yes, I did look at it, took quiz, etc. Quite interesting to me). Just your opinions. Which is fine, too.

But it's all good. Too tired after getting up too early to be snarky for too long myself. Have a Snicker's bar. I go put the kid gloves you think I have away for the night.

Hawk, those viruses will just get worse. With travel the way it is, we can't isolate. Bit worrisome I have to say, more than a bit.

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal


This is good.

As it raises a segue, well that may be a matter of opinion, into the issue of the Benton hiring.

It seems, that all here are in accord as to the Leftist nature of academia. John Laird himself once had a column on this. [http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/au...][1]

What about an analogous situation in regards to Clark Couty government. Social services, environment, and planning for example. The Benton appointment is subject to scrutiny as it applies to law. I’ve got no problem with that. But here’s the thing: If the institutions of higher learning are staffed by people of a certain bent, who perpetuate their bent by their new hires, then the same idea can easily be extrapolated to other government positions as well. I’m not sure what happened here, but I suspect that the Benton hire has nothing to do with payback or some such notion, but is more about shaking things up.

[1]: http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/au...

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 28, 2013 at 5:23 p.m.

A Jeb Presidency might be in the cards. After his brother winning in 04', I've come to understand absolutely anything is possible in politics.

America getting dealt the Tarot Reaper! The completion of the Unholy Bush Trinity. The end of the world is nigh and Jeb will lead his fellow evangelicals to heaven on the hooves of WW3! God's voice is beckoning. Will he answer the call?

Rubio's a pud.

Whenever I hear his name mentioned as a viable Presidential candidate, I think man, it doesn't matter who the Dems put up in 2016. It's already sounding like victory is at hand.

Of course Ron Paul will stagger out about a year before election and announce his candidacy. He'll make sure his ardent faithful are reminded to contribute $$$ to his Super-Pac. Then he'll bow out once again when it gets close, as usual, laughing all the way to the Bank.

Trump is talking about another run.....

nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn, are you saying they hired Benton to shake things up? I thought it was because he is anti-CRC like the 2 commissioners (plus he has been looking for opening at county for years and now found the two who would give it to him). What will he shake up? getting rid of environmental protection? That they hire a like-minded soul - yea, that I clearly understand.

I still do not understand why we are the only county in the state who seem unable to comply with water runoff regs. I mean, I really don't. What do I miss here?

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 9 p.m.

1. My rhetorical question of your past teaching position is only a segue to the question that followed and your apparent criticism really has nothing to do with anything.( Although it is sort of interesting that you taught college.)
2. Actually, there is an idea, and the idea is that it may be hard for us to see ourselves, but that it may be a little easier too see ourselves by looking at who we agree with and those who we don’t.
3. Yes, an idea is put forth by that chart, even though I have posted this before. Others refusal to engage this issue, does not negate the idea invlolved.

Really luv, your feelings will come to no good end, and do not facilitate any sort of discussion.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 9:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 9:22 p.m.

And just what do you mean by environmental protection.

Twenty years ago, or so, I sat through a couple of the hearings on the wetlands issue that the county was going to adopt. While I don’t recall the specifics, it was along the line of property owners putting up barriers, a fence, or fallen logs, something; so as to keep human activity from the drainages on their property such as creeks. The original proposals by Clark County Staff were for distances which were pretty unreasonable, I think 300 feet, but I really don’t recall. Whatever it was it was a lot. After a dozen or more revisions: that was ratched down significantly. One might wonder just who it was that came up with those initial ideas, and at what point does all of this significanly impede the building of stuff and the production of stuff to the extent that the quality of life is not enhanced but is instead diminished by lack of citizens being able to make a living. This is what I mean by paper and pencil thinking.

I know nothing at all about being the only county in the state out of compliance with water runoff regs. Providing that info would be helpful.

kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at 10:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn, I was referring to the legal battle the county seems to have with the state over water run-off. I do not know the specifics but I am puzzled as I kept reading that other counties were/are able to follow the regs.

Although I really never understood why and how we could go back to "pre-European" water runoffs etc. That just escapes me.

However, bedtime for me.

luvithere — May 28, 2013 at 10:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***manthou — May 28, 2013 at 7:16 a.m***

i'm old enough to remember when *"professor"* bill ayers killed his girlfriend when an anti-personnel bomb he was making exploded.

he got better and, with *"professor"* bernadine dohrn killed a bunch of cops (or just "pigs", as he saw it). they're suspected in the explosion at the san francisco police station too, but not enough court-ready evidence could be put together back then.

another lauded "professor" is killer kathy boudin. guess columbia university doesn't care about homicide if they agree with the politics.

***manthou — May 28, 2013 at 7:16 a.m***

> You just do not do this kind of stuff.
> If you are so inclined, go teach
> Sunday school. You do not preach in
> front of a college class in a public
> college, and punish those who do not
> believe like you do.
>
> You might be someone who thinks that
> it is OK for a public school
> elementary teacher to scrawl on the
> blackboard: "We pray to Jesus" when
> she knows she has two children whose
> families follow the Islamic faith. Or
> for a teacher to tell a mentally ill
> student hiding under the desk in a
> psychotic panic: "The devil is
> speaking to you" before she erupts in
> prayer, escalating the situation.
> Those are two of the more extreme
> examples and they don't necessarily
> reflect a trend: that is why I
> qualified my statement with the word
> ANECDOTAL.

***manthou — May 28, 2013 at 7:16 a.m***

i absolutely agree. **keep your personal life OUT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS**.

where we may part ways is what's included in the ban. for instance, i no more want to know what goes on in your bedroom than in your bathroom. i also don't want *your* opinion about *my* religion, or lack thereof.

nobody should be allowed to stop me from praying, or demand i do so.

if i want to wear a crucifix, it's not the public school's business.

reading, writing, arithmetic...this is the foundation of an educated person *and the only thing the public school should be concerned with*.

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 10:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> Even so, I'm thinking the problem may
> be worse now. Both parties are
> dominated by extremists and
> lightweights, and neither side appears
> willing to work back toward a middle
> ground

**roger — May 28, 2013 at 5:23 p.**m

i think the last time anyone ran for the office i actually *wanted to win* was JFK. since then, it's just been a choice between Bad and Worse...and the bar's been lowered so much now that the choice may be between continuing or killing our political, social, public and personal way of life.

there are a lot of votes out there who would joyously kill it all in seconds.

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 10:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


*roger...just little addendum to 10:45 pm*

what i do now is listen carefully, do my due-diligence on backgrounds and past history.

then i pray. hard and repeatedly.

finally i make a pick and pray, "may God's will be done".

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 10:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***(That was in the mid 90's - I haven't seen fit to return since.)
roger — May 28, 2013 at 8:07 p.m***

i'm sooooOOoooo glad my major was computer engineering. that's because it was so new, the uni's didn't have time to plant their flags.

i learned it from men who actually *did* the work. and...my textbooks were IBM tech manuals.

loved it then.

miss it now.

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


> BTW, I've tried to discuss exactly
> what the ideas Liberal and
> Conservative really are all about.
> Care to give it a go? Important since
> those words are so frequently thrown
> out there, but everyone seems to have
> their own ideas. Not real conducive to
> a fruitful dialog without a common
> understanding of of what the issue
> really is. kn_dalai — May 28, 2013 at
> 8:20 p.m.

as i thought about it, i realized we have to set parameters (or we could get endless monologues in debate-style)

for instance, time-frame. should be now. also point-of-view. by that i mean what population demo are we talking about (academic vs. layperson, etc).

so, in this environment, the posting one, the real-life one and the commonly-held one, what's the def of liberal and conservative....

is that ok?

DeeLittle — May 28, 2013 at 11:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 28, 2013 at 9:11 p.m.

Perhaps - I'm not enamored with any of their possibilities. But then the Dems don't really get my attention either - For whatever the reason, they seem to be playing down a Hillary candidacy - And I see Biden and the others as not much better than the Repubs (it all depends on the issue being discussed).

There's a topic that seems to be coming up again - The Charismatic Leader. It's more in the business world, though The Economist had a pretty good article last summer applying it to the European political leadership. We could apply this to our own situation - What ever happened to the people on the national level who had a vision for where we should go, and the charisma to sell it to us? An argument might be the political television types have killed this - the masses are quickly reminded of anyone and everyones flaws.

roger — May 29, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Unpaid internships in journalism: Is this long-accepted rite closing the door on talented, lower-income students, making a journalism career a reality for only the privileged? Is the public losing an important minority voice as a result?

This is a thoughtful opinion piece from a Northwestern-trained journalist David Dennis in the Guardian that is worth a discussion. If not here, then in the newsroom water coolers nationwide:

"And therein lies the issue with unpaid internships. The practice of asking recent graduates to spend their days working for free while paying rent and living in a city like New York is a barrier for entry to students from mid- to lower-class backgrounds."

Read the full article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/28/unpaid-internships-privilege-ruin-journalism#ixzz2Ugq1BUT3

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 7:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The big 9.0 earthquake is overdue for Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver BC, according to scientists who study these things.....

Sandi Doughton, science writer for the Seattle Times, has published a book that describes the evidence and what-when's (as opposed to what-if's).

I think I will pick one up:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.indiebound.org/book/9781570617898

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Another one switches party affiliations. This time a former GOP Senator.

**Sources: Lincoln Chafee to switch parties**

Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee has notified senior Democratic Party officials that he intends to switch his party registration and join the Democratic Party, multiple sources familiar with Chafee’s decision told POLITICO.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/lincoln-chafee-to-switch-parties-sources-say-91994.html#ixzz2UhbJOuMe

nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*Both parties are dominated by extremists and lightweights, and neither side appears willing to work back toward a middle ground.*

roger — May 28, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. (

Not so true roger. As your article and many others have pointed out, (as well as the Congressional record) the level of obstructionism is unprecedented, and the ones obstructing by and large are Republicans. Without question. I don't know of any left wing extremists who are influencing/obstructing Congressional politics like those on the right.

I think sometimes those who wear the label of Independent, tend to blur the lines to justify their middle stance. Could this be one of those times?

It's easy to take a chainsaw to Congressional politics when a scalpel, (at least a hatchet) is needed.

There have been times when the Left has been dominated by folks unwilling to budge on issues. But in these times, in the here and now, it's important to understand and highlight those who are creating the problems.

If not willing to pillage/privatize Medicare and Social Security is uncompromising then so be it. The voters spoke last November regarding this.

In spite of being elected...and re-elected, has there ever been a Congress who refuses to allow a President to move forward with his agenda the people voted for?

Never to this degree.

nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

" the level of obstructionism is unprecedented" Do you have any reliable source?

"In spite of being elected...and re-elected, has there ever been a Congress who refuses to allow a President to move forward with his agenda the people voted for?" Congress can't obstruct the President, they are different branches of Government, with different responsibilities.

frobert — May 29, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 29, 2013 at 12:07 p.m

The President is the head of the executive branch, not the legislative branch. The branches have distinct functions and responsibilities. The President has no ability to introduce legislation, only members of Congress do.

Executive orders do not carry the weight of law, only Congress has that authority.

frobert — May 29, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — May 29, 2013 at 12:22 p.m

Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Here is a more reliable source.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Executive+Order

If you read it you will see that executive orders only carry the power of law if they are issued under Congressional authority.

frobert — May 29, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert- Get booted off your other sites again? I don't have any source you would consider viable, as none of it emanates from your extremist libertarian sources. You could look at # of filibusters, what Dole alludes to, a gazillion other sources/issues which point to precedent, but it won't matter to you. You've never accepted reasonable sources before, and you condemn any source that doesn't line up with your Ayn Rand conservative kool-aid. Why would you reasonably dialoguing now?start now? Anyway...

...how's Gen?

How's Gen?

nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I didn't mean to stutter or be repetitive.

:)

nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You know who might be a viable candidate? Chris Christie. Even though he's signed up as a Repub, he's a lot more middle of the road and he likes to piss off his party. It really cracked me up when he stood up FOR Obama after the big storm. The Repubs didn't like that. Time will tell but I think he might make the jump to the other side if they keep fighting him.

hawkeye — May 29, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Holycrap- I'm analyzing your comment on May 29 @ 1:09 pm. Don't mind me :) Laws are written for a reason to obey and have structure. The laws are only interpreted when going before a Judge. It's actually quite simple. Nope money isn't what keeps the attorneys going- well it's part of it. HA! If you think about it Each state has laws set up about the attorneys taking 1/3 or if it goes to trial taking half of the money/settlement. So it's not them.

___
So for religion in school? Yes don't have it in school as long as darwin is eliminated. Easy-peasy. If you can't have one, why have the other? Then there will be no issues. It's that easy.

mxfun118 — May 29, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One is science, mx, the other theology. I take no issue with teaching theology in school, unless it's presented as science.

Yes, yes, I know Darwin's work is merely theory. I'd like to point out, however, so is that guy Pythagoras' work.

It would be pretty tough teaching paleontolgy and many other disciplines without broaching evolution. Would you have them tossed out of the curriculum?

Drift — May 29, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Clark County's Deputy Administrator to retire in July.

They are jumping ship en masse:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://blogs.columbian.com/all-politics-is-local/2013/05/29/no-2-at-county-announces-retirement/

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Public Hearing on Home Rule Charter: Tuesday, June 4 at 10:00 am.

Be there or be square!

I am for anything that makes Madore uncomfortable. :)

Mielke is too slow and foggy to realize who may be elected to the Administrator position, but Madore, being the smart half of this duo, does, and it has him worried.

Can you say "Craig Pridemore", Tom?

Freeholders will be partisan.

Might as well really shake up the shack because we are losing all the veterans and smart guys.

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Great information about Home Rule Charter counties in Washington state and what their charters look like. Scroll down and you will find the six counties:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.mrsc.org/subjects/governance/locgov12.aspx

I should clarify: Mielke wants the Freeholders to be partisan. I second that. :)

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

Has there been this level of obstructionism? Not in modern history, but a few times in the past.

There are those in the Red states who consider legislators such as Nancy Pelosi and Charles Rangel every bit as extreme in their views as people in Blue states find Eric Cantor and Michele Bachmann. They're all sticking by their principles and saying they shouldn't be compromised. So who is right?

roger — May 29, 2013 at 6:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Allow me to remind you of Craig Pridemore cautioning us on the possible outcome of the home rule freeholder process. He supposed we'd have to select those 15 freeholders by the current Commissioner districts - 5 from each - correct? And I believe he also mentioned a little money applied in the right place could influence everything. I'd say he was looking at District 1 (Mielke) being largely Repub, District 3 (Stuart) Dem, and District 2 (Madore) the swing vote district. If Madore can get enough of his candidates elected - There's a real good chance the people in the fire hall that day won't like the outcome.

Having said this - What do the freeholders determine beside structure of the government? To be honest, I wasn't entirely sure about what his concern was (other than having the initial freeholder deck stacked).

roger — May 29, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - I mentioned Christie as a possible future Repub candidate once, and someone (I forget who) pointed out that his popularity is largely regional. That was probably accurate. And he also has the same problem as Biden - a tendency to tell someone who pisses him of to blow it out their XXX. (Mind you, I like this about him - but Presidents are supposed to be above that.) As for him jumping parties - I'd say just as many on the Dem side would fight him due to his wanting to cut gov't departments, revamp education and teachers - things that would earn him a cold shoulder out here on the West Coast.

roger — May 29, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Good questions. It's all a risk. I just think it will buy some time and slow Madore down a little while this issue gets debated and voted on.

I look forward to learning a little more about the process and the table in that link I posted shows how different each of the six counties with Home Rule are.

All we need is another controversial topic in this region. I am exhausted.

About Chris Christie: He got my attention and I live 2500 miles away from Jersey. He also had gastric lap band surgery and is dropping weight fast. Why did he do that? To address the elephant in the room and shrink it down to size. Makes me wonder if he is thinking about 2016.

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, Christie has more than a regional following, He refused to be a 2012 contender; 2016 may be another matter but his coziness with BHO over Sandy has not been received well by many.

I agree with you about his outspokeness and think his no nonsense style is his attraction.

[Christie kills Tunnel Project][1]

[1]: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/gov_christie_cancels_arc_tunne.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpX5hw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITbQXZcle5c

I've got computer troubles, not sure if these embeds will come through.

kn_dalai — May 29, 2013 at 8:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So who is right?

roger — May 29, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.

I'm not getting the specifics of your question. You're just throwing it all in a melting pot. Part of that chainsaw-hatchet conversation. Charlie Rangel is a dominating factor in today's politics?

I took issue with your assertion the Democratic party is dominated by extremists and lightweights. Simply not true.

Boneheads and out of touch elites maybe. But extremists and lightweights? Naw.

Again @ May 29, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.

nailingit — May 29, 2013 at 10:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Republicans Gone Wild!

**Kansas Religion Bill Urges Military To Defend 'Judeo-Christian Tradition' Against Alleged Discrimination**

Republican lawmakers in Kansas want the state Legislature to call on the U.S. military to aggressively defend the "Judeo-Christian tradition" in the face of alleged discrimination by the Defense Department.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/kansas-religion-bill_n_3355166.html

nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 5:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Rangel was Chair of the House Ways and Means when Pelosi was Speaker; he has had power, and will hold it again when/if the Dems ever retake the House. And personally, I find that though Liberal, his record is also a very solid example of the compromise many of us wish was taking place. So, Yes - I'd say Rangel may be more influential than many think - He just doesn't seek the center stage attention many do.

I'm talking about perceptions; ones that are held regionally. WA is a Blue state; the people as a bloc see Sen Patty Murray as an important and very powerful voice in our Nation's governing - someone who cares about people and wants to see that everyone shares in the American Dream. There are other sections of the country where she's viewed as an ideologically driven person, completely lacking in understanding of fiscal matters, and a major contributor to our inability to reach a budget.

There's a book worth reading - "The Two Americas", by Stanley Greenberg - which gets into an analysis of the regional differences which have led to the split we're seeing in our gov't. He covers a lot of why these differences matter, and gets into why we see Presidential elections coming down to contested areas (the eastside suburbs of Seattle where the techies live being one). The book ends with an update after the 2004 election, and reads like a roadmap for the Obama campaign strategy that led to his victory. He notes the Repubs are (were) solidly invested in maintaining the regional "Two Americas" split, and that the Dems will have to get over their timidity and sell the vision of a One America.

The Obama campaign sold the vision, but the Obama administration has been less than successful in implementing it - I see the split as wider than ever. Our local politics here in Clark County are a good example.

roger — May 30, 2013 at 5:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Rangel will never hold that position again. And as you pointed out, he certainly is not an extremist or lightweight.

Perceiving is much different than being. Maybe a misunderstanding? Maybe sometimes folks are just wrong about something? :)

Perceptions of good bad and in between will always exist, many times the fruit of bias . It's nice we have records to review at will.

nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 6:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


**CBO: Tax Breaks Cost $12 Trillion Over Decade, Benefit Most Wealthy**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/cbo-tax-breaks-wealthy_n_3355836.html

nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 5:35 a.m.

An interesting sidelight is the number of "ordained ministers" (quotes due to various titles being used) that are in the rank and file these days. The issue of proselytizing by evangelical chaplains came up in the '90s, and the rules about allowing prayers to a nonspecific deity were issued. I notice the current interpretation is a bit more lenient, in favor of the Christian religion. But I also see the presence of all these "born again" types, with their one on one approach of those with issues in their lives they're having trouble dealing with, a grass roots push back from within the ranks - one that is tacitly encouraged by manner in the senior leadership.

roger — May 30, 2013 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 30, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.

But I also see the presence of all these "born again" types, with their one on one approach of those with issues in their lives they're having trouble dealing with, a grass roots push back from within the ranks - one that is tacitly encouraged by manner in the senior leadership.
roger — May 30, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.

Add American "Christian" hate for the Muslim religion and those that follow it, who we're at war with, and we've got quite the toxic cocktail.

Maybe we should disallow base religious services all together. Maybe it has no place in the Military. I understand the need for faith in God, especially in a time of war. But if that God only has one persona while other faiths are discourage or purged, it sounds too much like a theocracy.

Not that theocracy and the military are a volatile mix! :))

On kind of a side note, I think we can gauge what republican's want our country to look like from looking at Republican controlled states. Look at Kansas as a template.

There's an expression, "This ain't Kansas!"

We could become it. It's what Republicans, Libertarian type critters in particular, want. Everything to the States to be micro-managed. Then the Madore types can really do some 'engineering'.

nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Republicans VanNortwick, Kimsey, and Lasher join presumed Dem Fairgrieve in challenging the BOCC on the proposed development fee waivers: excellent!

All posed good questions and their inquiry shows that there is absolutely no plan that guided this experiment.

Every penny we spend of our tax dollars should be based on best-practices evidence programs that have proven to work. I know that the Federal government has a website called "What Works" to show educators promising programs with data that back up their successes.

It is significant that Madore is tossing this idea up the flag pole to see who salutes, without any idea of its merits or dangers to county solvency or a clear plan to measure its success.

Politicians like that go down in flames, but they take our money with them when they do.

manthou — May 30, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Chris Christie: I did a little internet search last night, watched some of his speeches and I like his style. I am from Chicago, so I am used to in-your-face politicians and grew up with Mayor Daley barking from the TV screen on a regular basis. Christie does not come with the corruption that was simply assumed and accepted in the years I spent growing up in the Windy City, though. There is something comforting about a leader who speaks his or her mind and challenges idiocy with confidence and force.

I remember watching Christie go ballistic over the tea party protests when he appointed a Muslim to the bench in NJ. The gentleman's faith had nothing to do with his professional bonafides and Christie made no bones about his anger over the implications otherwise.

I also learned a little about Mary Pat Christie: she is the breadwinner, technically, and has been in that role for years so her husband could pursue his political career. She is a bond trader and hard-working mother of four, not some arm decoration for show.

I think he will be a candidate for 2016. Whether he makes it to the nomination is another story, but I will be watching and listening to see how he measures up.

manthou — May 30, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 30, 2013 at 5:49 a.m.

Unfortunately, we have one side of the aisle polluting issues well above and beyond perception.

Republican extremism at work.

**Paul Ryan admits GOP can’t govern without a hostage crisis**

Rep. Paul Ryan, the House GOP’s budgetary chieftain, gave a brief but remarkable interview to the Washington Examiner’s David Drucker in which he essentially conceded that Republicans will only negotiate with Democrats over the budget if they can hold the U.S. economy hostage to increase their leverage.

..

The simple fact of the matter here is that Republicans are not willing to enter into negotiations over the budget unless they can use the threat of crashing the economy to get more of what they want. To this apparent end, conservative Senators such as Ted Cruz and Mike Lee have insisted that Dems agree in advance of any budget talks not to make the debt limit any part of them — a position supported by Mitch McConnell. But as Jonathan Chait noted recently, Democrats can’t do this; it would mean “they couldn’t strike any deal because Republicans would come back in the fall demanding more concessions in return for not blowing up the world economy.”

*The move by Senate conservatives to impose preconditions on any budget talks has been denounced by John McCain and other Republicans, because it would effectively make normal governing impossible.* The disagreement has resulted in a divide among Republicans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/05/29/paul-ryan-admits-gop-cant-govern-without-a-hostage-crisis/?hpid=z2

nailingit — May 30, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Seems a writer doing a book on NYC's Park Ave elite discovered an oddity. When these folks "do Disney" they hire a disabled person from an agency to pose as a family member for $1000/day to avoid the lines.

Disney for the '1%'

The Post anonymously quoted one mother as saying, "My daughter waited one minute to get on 'It's a Small World' -- the other kids had to wait 2 1/2 hours. You can't go to Disney without a tour concierge. This is how the 1% does Disney."

The woman said she hired a company called Dream Tours, the Post reported.

The new normal sucks.

mrd — May 30, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Might as well really shake up the shack because we are losing all the veterans and smart guys.

manthou — May 29, 2013 at 5:22 p.
Who are the Veterans and Smart guys we are losing?? I would like to know who you consider these people to be..

vanwadreamer — May 30, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou

Have you watched all the 2013 SWBH meetings?

langenthal — May 30, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer: By "veterans" I not only include military vets like Kevin Gray, the ousted Head of Environmental Services, but i also mean veterans in the "experience" kind: Bill Barron and his assistant have over 30 years experience at Clark County combined. All three are smart in the brain sense and smart in the life experience sense in that they know when a good time to get out is.

I don't have a lot of confidence in David Madore's practical intelligence, and I don't believe Tom Mielke has any deep gray matter. Both hired Don Benton without a clear plan on how they were going to measure his job performance. And this proposed fee waiver was floated without any similar means to measure its success. They are making decisions and floating policies based on emotion and ideology. We need to spend tax dollars on evidence-based programs with a proven track record.

I would have risked losing my government job for doing anything less, so I don't know why Madore and Mielke, as electeds, get a pass.

langenthal: No, I have not, but it sounds like I should listen to those SW Behavioral Health Department meetings and weep? I have resisted, because my psyche is on overload with these clowns and I can only take so much more of their stupidity and arrogance.

manthou — May 30, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mrd,

Carlos Mencia did a skit a few years ago about using a guy in a wheelchair to go to the front of all the Magic Mountain Amusement Park rides. I'm surprised this isn't common practice at all the major parks. Buy a cheap wheelchair at Goodwill, and away you go!

roger — May 30, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys read the article about Japan stopping wheat import from PNW after genetically modified wheat was found in Oregon? Seems a test field courtesy of Monsanto, years later, is still growing nicely and the stuff spread.

Yep, the genie is out of the bottle now. That's the worst realized, and now it will affect farmers. Nice job, Monsanto.

If that isn't enough to wake up some of our more complacent folks around here, I am not sure what will.

This made me sick to my stomach.

luvithere — May 30, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Luvithere,Is Monsanto going to be responsible for all the loss's that the farmers in 11 states are going have.Did Japan find something in this wheat that will harm people?And why did our government even allow this to happen.Lets find out who our senators and reps.are that agreed to even testing this.All our foods should be labeled to reflect what it is and what is in it.I agree it makes me sick also.It just may make us all sick for generations to come.

timerick — May 30, 2013 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timeric: Luvithere,Is Monsanto going to be responsible for all the loss's that the farmers in 11 states are going have.

I'm not 'luv,' but if I may?

No. Monsanto will sue the farmers for patent infringement.

Drift — May 30, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Development of GMO food crops was being trumpeted as a good thing back in the early '90s - We were going to be able to create disease resistant plants, ones that could grow in drought conditions, etc - and subsequently wipe out the starvation plaguing many parts of the world.

Most of the corn and soybean crops grown in this country are GMO, and about half of each end up in food for livestock. Most of the sugar is derived from beets, of which over half the crop is also GMO.

Science has yet to determine any difference in crops or livestock raised for food. It seems there is a difference in milk from GMO fed cows, however - a higher fat content causes it to go sour quicker. Much of the opposition comes from groups like World Wildlife Fund and Greenpeace, who would like a long term study to determine if any risks exist.

Whatever - It sounds to me to be somewhat similar to the farm-raised vs. wild salmon argument - Over time, Man is going to change what Mother Nature developed.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 5:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Morning Drift, I think you got that right. I actually read that somewhere before, that if you have GMO crop growing, they can sue you. Despite the fact that it might have drifted. Those bastards are well protected. They are the poster child for what's wrong these days.
We best all watch this closely, it will be a major test case. So far, I have not seen much coverage besides here in the paper. I have shared with some Oregon friends already. OPB had it on at least. We might as well spread this, media ain't.

luvithere — May 31, 2013 at 5:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Monsanto will prevail every time. Ineed, they are so well-protected by our own government and their own expensive corporate lawyers.

Monsanto received even more protection with a bill signed by President Obama in March of 2013. It is called the “Monsanto Protection Act,” and will shield Monsanto seeds and other genetically modified crops approved by the Agriculture Department to be grown – even if there is action in the courts against them.

manthou — May 31, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Just got back from shaving and thinking about Drift's comment (a dangerous combination, shaving and thinking - It results in a lot of nicks). I was wondering if a counter suit was possible for that Oregon wheat farmer - claiming that his crop was contaminated by Monsanto's. Then I shifted to how this works - Isn't most or all cross pollination done by insects? Which led me to the mystery of why the honey bee population is disappearing. A lot of flowering plants - roses for example - are being sold as rust resistant. Is this from some sort of genetic modification? Perhaps something we're doing to make our plants more disease or pest resistant is killing off the bees (and who knows what other insects)?

Anyhow, this ties in with where I was going earlier - We've been doing this for about 20 years or so. The only complaints I can recall from back in the beginning were from the religious types, who didn't want us playing god and cloning animals - because we'll move to people next. (Which we will.) And if what we're creating is stronger, then over time this dominates the natural species and brings about change.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 31, 2013 at 6:28 a.m

We can only hope the "people" we create are smarter than we are. Of course it could be we have already made one or two, I'm thinking....... ***Madonis***!

hawkeye — May 31, 2013 at 6:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I still would like to know what Japan found in the wheat that made them refuse to buy it.There must be something?

timerick — May 31, 2013 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Check it out, time:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ma...

Drift — May 31, 2013 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Most of our prepared food has fructose or sugar added. Most of the animals we eat were fed corn and soy. I'd say the odds are pretty high that no one has managed to avoid eating something that's been modified.

I haven't been following the whole Monsanto thing, but isn't the uproar at least partially based on fears that GMO foods are causing autism, obesity, cancers, et.al.? If so, without any sort of scientific tie in, isn't this a bit unfair? I mean, we KNOW benzene causes numerous cancers and other problems, and it's everywhere (to include in soda pop). Might we be seeing higher numbers of autism in children due to spending many more hours watching TV than ever before? They have no clue what causes this!

Monsanto's bullying of farmers needs to be stopped. But I haven't run across anything that definitively says we should be killing the GMO food industry.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I read that yesterday Drift.But like Roger said there is no scientific proof.But on the other hand it was science that made it.Who can you trust?

timerick — May 31, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


For those interested in GMO products. Make sure you click around on the tabs for more info.. There are tons of links out there you can find with a little research.

http://foodbabe.com/2013/05/30/illegal-gmo-wheat-in-kraft-mac-cheese/

ELISI — May 31, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


and another thing..if GMO foods is so great and nothing to be worried about..then why is it that the majority of Europe and Japan will not allow it?

ELISI — May 31, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I misunderstood your question, time. From what little research I'v done (all of 3 minutes) it simply appears many foreign countries find GMO stuff an aberration. A cultural thing?

http://grist.org/news/japan-and-other-nations-say-no-to-u-s-wheat-worried-about-gmos/

Drift — May 31, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for the link, Elisi. Japan and EU have decided that this type of food from US is not good enough. Obviously they feel that more research needs to go into it.

Consider this fact though: Monsanto modified crops so it can withstand even higher doses of that RoundUp pesticide that Monsanto manufactures and sells. A bit self-serving alright! Roundup has been proven to cause abnormalities in amphibians. Good enough for me. I stay clear of that crap on our property and usually lecture everyone against using it. Ever seen the poison isle at Home Depot?

For me it also boils down to that I want to make the decision as to what I eat. If there is sugar in a food, I can decide against eating it. For GMO food, without a label, I would not know.

Saw some absolutely wonderful, big, juicy apricots in store the other day. One as nice and as round and as colorful as the other. Total unblemished clones. Nice case of heavy spraying. Walked right by them. Yuk.

luvithere — May 31, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't know Drift if it is a aberration or not.But it seems they know something that we don't.We grow a lot of our veggies in the green house and we only use home made type sprays.My better half makes it in the kitchen and hasn't killed me yet and she eats to so I guess it is alright.By the way I am trying to get her to grow some of what you grow but she balks at the idea.Mayby she thinks I'm mellow enough.My Doc at the VA would most likely catch it in my blood draw anyway and then tell me how bad it is for me.

timerick — May 31, 2013 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Luv, my VA doc has actually offered dosing suggestions for the (homemade) capsules I take. She is also aware of the pathology and the frequency I reorder the opiate pain reliever. I should be maxing out on morphine, yet I take a very minimal amount of vicodin.

I read a copy of the chart notes from my last annual. She seems to have gone out on a limb with, "Doing very well with marijuana capsules and vicodin; stays active, pain controlled, can continue." Yeah, that's a quote.

You might be aware a while back the VA issued a memo to the providers stating cannabis use (in medweed states) was not to be considered as grounds for severing a narcotics contract.

But, as my doc prior to the present pointed out, ultimately it's up to the provider. That particular practitioner didn't care to discuss my cannabis administration with me. He also overlooked the hot pee test (shrug).

My current doc is leaving. I've no idea the opinions of the next. I suppose it's a bit of a grab bag.

Oh, and growing a weed is a heck of a lot easier than the black-market horticulturists would have you believe. You do realize, however, that cultivation isn't legal under 502 - 69.51a only. ;^)

Drift — May 31, 2013 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Crap.

My last post was to time not luv.

Stoners...I tell ya ;^)

Drift — May 31, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Quite alright Drift. Glad you found a decent doc, hope next one keeps open mind and does the right thing.

Weekend, sun, warmth, no work. Life is good!
Good microbrew anybody?

luvithere — May 31, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — May 31, 2013 at 4:19 p.m

I picked up a six-pack of that Tangerine at that new Wine store by the mall. Just in time for our "Summer" this week. Time to break out the grill.

Have a great weekend, everybody. See ya in the funny papers.

hawkeye — May 31, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, we still got beer left from the tasting last week. 12 varieties....

luvithere — May 31, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hope for the future! Meanwhile, let's quit putting these nuts in office.

**Kathleen Taylor, Neuroscientist, Says Religious Fundamentalism Could Be Treated As A Mental Illness**

An Oxford University researcher and author specializing in neuroscience has suggested that one day religious fundamentalism may be treated as a curable mental illness.

Kathleen Taylor, who describes herself as a "science writer affiliated to the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics," made the suggestion during a presentation on brain research at the Hay Literary Festival in Wales on Wednesday.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that "One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated," The Times of London notes.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html

nailingit — May 31, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

You think just maybe this treatment of religious fundamentalism is a revisit of the deprogrammers of a few years back? And if we go this route, do we perhaps also open the door to once again trying to treat other things, like homosexuality? Or how about liberalism/conservatism (take your choice)?

Maybe a few sessions with Doctor Drift would be more acceptable.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 6:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, after working my way through a PBS Nova/Frontline special on the use of genetically modified food crops, the only conclusion I can can to is that neither side is really sure. I think perhaps the most compelling argument against them is that FDA requires (or used to require) rigorous testing of medications before they allow them on the market, yet there has been almost no oversight from that agency on this field. And probably the most compelling in favor is that genetic modification is really the natural order of things - we call it evolution.

I ran across a statement somewhere that most soda, beer and cheese contains GMOs. Time to go slice up some Manchego for a snack.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Nails - Do you think Liberalism might be caused by too much GMO food in the diet? (snicker, snicker)

roger — May 31, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — May 31, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.

We could start with the Flat Earth Society and work our way down to evangelicals and Wal-Mart Shoppers.

As far as lessons go-it's a little late for that.

roger — May 31, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

Maybe. I'd lean more to those who have difficulty deciphering today's political scene. Some seem confused about basic issues, such as identifying Congressional obstruction.

Most of these critters call themselves Independents. ;)

What about turning these "Demon Hunters" loose in Congress. No doubt it would induce projectile vomiting en 'masse'. Ready the buckets!

**Gabriele Amorth, Catholic Priest And Exorcist, Says He's Done More Than 160,000 Exorcisms**

A Catholic priest claims to have performed more than 160,000 exorcisms.
Now Father Gabriele Amorth wants help from his boss to banish the demons, so he's asking Pope Francis to bestow exorcism privileges to every priest with proper training, The Sunday Times of London reports.

..

Last week the Catholic archdiocese of Madrid reinforced the claim of exorcist leader Amorth that more demon fighters were needed. It said that the one exorcist it had was not enough and planned to train more.

The AP noted that only a bishop-authorized priest can do an exorcism, which involves blessings and "an interrogation of the devil."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/gabriele-amorth-catholic-priest-exorcisms_n_3368017.html

nailingit — May 31, 2013 at 9:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**Michele Bachmann Is Out, So Who’s Our New Craziest Member of Congress?**

Michele Bachmann had a good run as the looniest toon in Congress. But there are plenty more where she came from. From Steve King to Ted Cruz, see our list of top contenders for her Crazytown crown.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/30/michele-bachmann-is-out-so-who-s-our-new-craziest-member-of-congress.html

nailingit — May 31, 2013 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Starbucks has banned smoking within 25 feet of their stores. Probably completely unenforceable unless they own the property or if there's a municipality code banning smoking in public places (which makes Starbucks' rule redundant). But should corporations be allowed to make rules like this?

I'd like to see a law requiring Starbucks to sell their coffee black. Let people add their own cream and sugar if they want to hide the taste. Send all the others to Dairy Queen to buy milkshakes.

roger — June 1, 2013 at 8:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

The whole issue of casting out demons deserves closer scrutiny - Who is trying to accomplish what? Matthew, Mark and Luke all tell the same story about Jesus casting the demon(s) into a herd of pigs, and then the pigs running into the lake and drowning. (Anyone who's ever been around pigs knows they're smarter than that.) But then the Gentiles of the town (Gadara or Gerasa) come out and insist Jesus leaves their area immediately. Now, we already know the Jews, along with many others in that area of the world, have a long history of discriminating against that most tasty of animals. Those Gadarenes, on the other hand, were obviously a much more sensible people and raised pigs (presumably for selling for consumption - they aren't good for much else). Those demons were probably guards trying to protect the herd from what they perceived to be an agent of the Israelites, come to destroy their economy so they could move in and take over their city. But then later on Jesus goes to the Temple in Jerusalem and starts in on the money lenders - trying to destroy Israel's banking system. He's also out there doing stuff like handing out free food and providing free health care.

We really need to get to the bottom of all this, because these exorcisms are done invoking the power of that same Jesus. And it sure seems to me he was some sort of dangerous radical fighting against the corporate world of his day.

roger — June 1, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 1, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.

Yea, I hate it when McDonalds insists on putting the cream and sweetener in my coffee. I really prefer on screwing it up MYSELF! I just know they are going to get it wrong, I mean really, what do they care, they aren't the ones that are drinking it. That's why I never get it there, or anywhere else for that matter, if I can help it. I have a Keurig at home and spoil myself on a regular basis.

hawkeye — June 1, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 1, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.

Alrighty then! :)

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal



One more example of "small government" republicans wish to impose at the local level.

**Wisconsin Unemployment Bill Would Let State Into Unemployed People's Bank Accounts**

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/wisconsin-unemployment-bank-accounts_n_3367073.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There's a glaring difference between gay marriage and cannabis legalization. For the life of me, I can't think of any corporations impacted by same sex unions.

When it comes to cannabis (inclusive of hemp) I'd have to take my shoes off to count them all.

Drift — June 1, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — June 1, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.

Of course. Kinda goes without saying?

The crux of Maher's rant spoke to changing the conversation about legalization, while speaking within a comedic framework.

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal



**Addressing And Discrediting 7 Major Myths About Immigration**

Myth 1: There are more immigrants than ever and these immigrants break the mold of previous waves.

Myth 2: Immigrants migrate because they are very poor.

Myth 3: These immigrants are culturally different and threaten the American way of life. 

Myth 4: Present-day immigrants do not assimilate, unlike previous waves.

Myth 5: Low-skilled workers take away jobs, lower salaries and hurt the economy.

Myth 6: A flexible system would mean an invasion of foreigners.

Myth 7: Immigrants don´t pay taxes and cost more than they contribute. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/05/29/addressing-and-discrediting-7-major-myths-about-immigration/?utm_source=huffingtonpost.com&utm;_medium=partner&utm;_campaign=7+immigration+myths&partner;=huffpo

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***DRIFT***

*forgive me if this question is offensive to you, and obviously overlook*

what are you using the homemade caps to treat?
i'd be interested in knowing what diagnoses it's got a rep for helping.

DeeLittle — June 1, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


***We really need to get to the bottom of all this, because these exorcisms are done invoking the power of that same Jesus. And it sure seems to me he was some sort of dangerous radical fighting against the corporate world of his day.
roger — June 1, 2013 at 9:05 a.m***

taking into consideration i'm catholic....

can't we just see it for what it's saying...? there exists instances of demonic possession of human beings, and Jesus had power over them. this power, along with all of His other divinities, was given to his disciples.

actually, there are very few exorcists in the catholic church. very rare need.

DeeLittle — June 1, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Dee - I've got a problem with something - Demonic possession is virtually nonexistent in the Old Testament, where we can read all about fallen angels, the serpent in the Garden, various discussions with God wanting people to show their obedience, etc, etc. In the New Testament, it seems like Jesus and his followers are routinely casting out demons - suddenly they've become as common as --- the common cold?

Jesus was a dangerous radical, in the eyes of the Sanhedrin. Some of the greatest of the prophets had brief discussions with God, ones where he gave them some sort of instructions. And the God of the Jews was a rather bad tempered old fellow; cross him and something unpleasant usually followed. Jesus of Nazareth appears to have placed himself on a whole other level - somewhere up there with God himself. Suddenly this young upstart is walking around telling everyone their sins can be forgiven - just follow him - he's got an in with the old boy. Nope - This guy was more than just another traveling Pharisee rabbi - He was out to destroy the entire social order.

Or so the story went, once Saul became Paul, and convinced James and the others it was best to go along with his version.

roger — June 1, 2013 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone who cares- 10:00-11:30

OPB is playing the 1981 Concert from Chicago's Checkerboard Lounge tonight with The Rolling Stones & Muddy Waters. Buddy Guy in the house with some others. Channel 10 or 710HD.

A lot of yakking (OPB) but for a good cause.

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oops. Channels 10/710 on *Comcast*.

nailingit — June 1, 2013 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


**roger — June 1, 2013 at 7:47 p.m**

*disclaimer: coming from the catholic perspective*

Jesus was the Son of God. born to a virgin, Mary. He was conceived by agreement of mary to carry God's child, and was conceived by the Holy Sprit. *all three are different parts of God (think clover leaf).*

the old testament was designed to bring the human race to a certain...higher plane...than they were currently operating in. God chose the human who was the most likely to create a people who followed Him (the one most approved of by God). so, God chose the jews as "His people" and He would be their God.

takes a long time to bring virtual animals to a civilized state. God gave them certain laws...moral, agricultural, food-related etc to get them used to living as 'civilized', and ready them for the eventual arrival of the savior. before they could be saved spiritually, they had to live better than animals.

at God's time, Jesus was given to us to provide a way out of the trap of sin=hell after death. there is a price to pay for ungodly behavior. until Jesus, it was death (i.e. Hell). we couldn't pay this price no matter what we did, and God could not bring into heaven anything that was less than perfect. so...Jesus. he was perfect (being God's son), so when he died, it broke satan's power over humanity. think breach of contract. Jesus paid for *everything*, having given everything (his life) and owing nothing.

the jewish leaders of this time were VERY concerned about this jesus person who was taking away influence of the temple. it had nothing to do with religion. but it had *everything* to do with ... you guessed it, politics.

rome allowed the jews to worship however they wanted, as long as they paid taxes and didn't make trouble. since jesus was not controlled by them, the temple worried that he would rile the people, during the MOST HOLY DAYS OF PASSOVER, and bring down the romans. ta-da...call him a subversive and let the romans have him.

does that answer your quetions....?

DeeLittle — June 1, 2013 at 11:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"NEWCASTLE, Wyo. – A Wyoming high school senior who built a nuclear reactor was disqualified from the International Science and Engineering Fair this month on a technicality.
(http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/01/wyoming-teen-who-built-fusion-reactor-disqualified-from-science-fair-on/?cmpid=googextension#ixzz2V2Rn2l1c)

**GOOD GRIEF, PEOPLE !!!!!**

why don't you just SEND HIM IMMEDIATELY TO ADVANCED PHYSICS RESEARCH ??!?!?!??!

DeeLittle — June 1, 2013 at 11:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


what are you using the homemade caps to treat? i'd be interested in knowing what diagnoses it's got a rep for helping. DeeLittle — June 1, 2013 at 6:16 p.m

Dee, if you go here http://capndrift.wordpress.com/category/medicinal-cannabis/ you'll find quite a bit of research on the medicinal efficacy of cannabis for various maladies.

However, to answer your query a bit more directly:

I have a congenital spinal disease. My spine is hosed from the cervical to the sacrum. I've undergone three surgeries in 14 years. The nerve roots are not happy. I experience radiculopathy and perpiphral nerve issues.

Those issues include pain, tingling, numbness, "phantom feelings" and muscle spasms/cramping.

I was awakened this morning from a spasm associated with the pudendal nerve bundle.

I can only take (very) small doses of opioid pain relievers or I lose my lunch. Muscle relaxers like Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) don't work. Pharmaceuticals such as Neurontin tend to make me suicidal. Though, no doubt death would end my misery, I'd rather hang out a tad bit longer.

The caps lessen the frequency of onset (pain, spasm, etc.). They also ease the intensity.

(Western) Doctors clear back in the 1850s noted cannabis appeared to have a synergistic relationship with opioids. One study (right here at WSU) gives us some insight how that works at the cellular level. http://capndrift.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/neurons-and-cannabinoidopioid-synergy/

There's research out there, also, indicating phytocannabinoids act as a neuroprotectant.

If you find yourself with some idle time consider looking into the endocannabinoid system. It is the most prevalent neurological system in your body. It was recently uncovered. You'll note the word "cannabinoid." That is because cannabionoids were isolated from the plant prior to knowledge of the system. The plant is what led to the discovery of.

BTW, I make a topical, too. It consists of iso alcohol, cannabis terpenes, capsaicin (from dried peppers) and glycerin. It relieves the burning at my neck and shoulder spasm.

Drift — June 2, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


thanks, **drift**.

i've recently been experiencing some...'unpleasant' effects from my medical coctail i take 3xday.

add to that the VERY unpleasant side effect of being abruptly thrown off one of my drugs (thanks, glorious leader), i'm looking for something **I** control, not someone else.

frankly, i was considering hospitalization to help me through it all.

DeeLittle — June 2, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm neither a doctor or a pharmacist, Dee, so I won't be making any direct recommendations. A suggestion though, perhaps? Take a look at PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed enter your malady and "cannabis" in the search section. There you can look at abstracts from different studies.

And remember, one needn't feel the psychoactive effects of THC while using it. There are ways to get around that.

Drift — June 2, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — June 2, 2013 at 8:30 a.m

Cold is good but it doesn't last. I've gone through tons of frozen peas. The best thing I have found so far (without ingesting anything) is a massage in spray foam called Salon Pas. I have only found it at Walgreens and it around $10 a can. It goes on cold and then slowly turns warm. I put it on my knees after my shower at night and my knees don't bother me in my sleep.

hawkeye — June 2, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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