Open forum, Oct 7-13



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Starting the week with another insightful FB quote from Ron Goodman (who is one of the best Madore watchdogs in Clark County):

"What did David Madore promise Vanessa Amundson to get her to "put aside her family?" Are those the values you want for the Camas council? Amundson's race isn't about Camas, it is about David Madore's blind ambition to control the C-Tran board and the Regional Transportation Council and about his insane, reckless accusations of "corruption" against everybody who fails to vote his way. Check out Amundson's campaign Web site and you find nothing about Camas but you do find Madore's words written on every page. Reject this flagrant attempt to pervert Camas's sensible politics and replace them with wild conspiracy theories. A vote for Amundson is a vote AGAINST Camas."


Madore's new 501c3 is his attempt to offer an alternative to Identity Clark County, I believe. All well and good. Problem is, its content (that he can produce without Clark County oversight) uses Clark County-developed materials that give the impression that this non-profit is a CC-sanctioned product. What is he raising money for? The general fund? To replace lost revenue from lost park fees and development fees? To replenish the coffers after the 10.5 million dollar settlement in the Federal lawsuit loss? Or to use it for political gain?

Transparency. Accuracy. Fairness, David. But only when it suits you?

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit; This is for you.

My husband was part of a fund-raising video yesterday for a non-profit in Seattle. Besides meeting the gentle man who raised Bill Gates (what a kind-hearted philanthropist Gates the father is), the journalist who interviewed the video participants told us he had just returned from an event for The Clinton Global Initiative.

When I mentioned my hope that Hillary would be running for President in 2016, the journalist commented that he was only about three feet from her and that she does not look very healthy. She has gained weight and looks very tired.

One person's opinion, I suppose, but it made me realize our political hopefuls are human, too. She has been dragged through the ringer with her powerful job over the past four years and I do hope she gets some R and R, if she needs it.

No one in the Democratic party can come near her in terms of experience and gravitas.

Besides, I would like to see Bubba in the White House again, taking a back seat to his talented wife. Take that, you hound dog. :)

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Besides, I would like to see Bubba in the White House again, taking a back seat to his talented wife. Take that, you hound dog. :)

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

Thanks manthou. I'd like it too. I hope Hillary gets much mental rest and physical exercise as optics mean much in these times. It's hard enough to break this White House glass ceiling. If elected, she'd better have her birth certificate at the ready!

Conservatives worst nightmare, Bubba back in the House! :))

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Excerpt from an interesting interview focusing on the personal. (I have to think thoughts on Citizens United was off the table)

A justice who chooses his information & entertainment from far right newspapers and far right talk show hosts.

I found these to be some of the most startling of comments.


///In Conversation: Antonin Scalia ///

You believe in heaven and hell?

AS- Oh, of course I do. Don’t you believe in heaven and hell?


AS- Oh, my.

Does that mean I’m not going?

AS- [Laughing.] Unfortunately not!

Wait, to heaven or hell?

AS- It doesn’t mean you’re not going to hell, just because you don’t believe in it. That’s Catholic doctrine! Everyone is going one place or the other.

But you don’t have to be a Catholic to get into heaven? Or believe in it?

AS- Of course not!

Oh. So you don’t know where I’m going. Thank God.

AS- I don’t know where you’re going. I don’t even know whether Judas Iscariot is in hell. I mean, that’s what the pope meant when he said, “Who am I to judge?” He may have recanted and had severe penance just before he died. Who knows?

Can we talk about your drafting process—

AS- [Leans in, stage-whispers.] I even believe in the Devil.

You do?

AS- Of course! Yeah, he’s a real person. Hey, c’mon, that’s standard Catholic doctrine! Every Catholic believes that.

Every Catholic believes this? There’s a wide variety of Catholics out there …

AS- If you are faithful to Catholic dogma, that is certainly a large part of it.

Have you seen evidence of the Devil lately?

AS- You know, it is curious. In the Gospels, the Devil is doing all sorts of things. He’s making pigs run off cliffs, he’s possessing people and whatnot. And that doesn’t happen very much anymore.


AS- It’s because he’s smart.

So what’s he doing now?

AS- What he’s doing now is getting people not to believe in him or in God. He’s much more successful that way.

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That has really painful implications for atheists. Are you sure that’s the ­Devil’s work?

AS- I didn’t say atheists are the Devil’s work.

Well, you’re saying the Devil is ­persuading people to not believe in God. Couldn’t there be other reasons to not believe?

AS- Well, there certainly can be other reasons. But it certainly favors the Devil’s desires. I mean, c’mon, that’s the explanation for why there’s not demonic possession all over the place. That always puzzled me. What happened to the Devil, you know? He used to be all over the place. He used to be all over the New Testament.


AS- What happened to him?

He just got wilier.

AS- He got wilier.

Isn’t it terribly frightening to believe in the Devil?

AS- You’re looking at me as though I’m weird. My God! Are you so out of touch with most of America, most of which believes in the Devil? I mean, Jesus Christ believed in the Devil! It’s in the Gospels! You travel in circles that are so, so removed from mainstream America that you are appalled that anybody would believe in the Devil! Most of mankind has believed in the Devil, for all of history. Many more intelligent people than you or me have believed in the Devil.

I hope you weren’t sensing contempt from me. It wasn’t your belief that surprised me so much as how boldly you expressed it.

AS- I was offended by that. I really was.

I’m sorry to have offended you!

AS- Have you read The Screwtape Letters?

Yes, I have.

AS- So, there you are. That’s a great book. It really is, just as a study of human nature.

Proof positive intellect and common sense are many times divorced.

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 7, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

I checked out this poorly written Waters blog, (tough as it is) to see what you are talking about. Kinda pathetic to remove this feature because a few disagree with his opinion. Another reason could be that this feature brings to light the number (or lack of) who bother to read his diatribe.

Minus a few loyalists, Lew is an island unto himself. Martin Hash said it well concerning Lew's rancor. I think it's just angry conservative nonsense grabbing onto the past for dear life trying to stay afloat. A psychiatrist's field day.

America is changing, and old white conservative men are having the hardest time of all accepting it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he started commenting here again. At least he'd get more hits.


On a separate note, I meant no ill will with Scalia's interview and his religious belief's, understanding one or two who post here embrace Catholicism. I was surprised this self acclaimed intellect, in essence, stuck his chin out to speak of his belief in a Devil.

Homemakers, business people, even politicians place their beliefs on a back burner to take care of business. In this coveted position, (arguably the most powerful position in America) Scalia's decisions are rooted in his beliefs as they take front and center.

Having said this, I wonder who gave Scalia the pitchfork he used to skewer America with his Citizens United decision.

I guess Satan can truly appear as an angel of light. ;)

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 12:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Grandiosity squared:

On FB, David Madore posted this gem about his battle against light rail and the I5 bridge:

"Someday, perhaps a movie will be made about this. When our characters are played out on the big screen, hopefully the audience will not only see that our community won this battle, but they will be inspired by the way that we won it with honor."

So now he is envisioning himself in a movie? Maybe. But it won't be a flattering portrayal. Who do you think will play Madore? Who do you think HE would cast?

I's cast Paul Rubens in a heartbeat.

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I have a questions for all...
Why if the government is supposed to shut-down, is over 83% still working? AND...

If cause of the shut-down, the parks, national monuments , museums, even private businesses on federal property is forced to close ..
Why are veterans being denied access to various war memorials, but people here illegally can get access to the National Mall.. ONLY for that group to rally for immigration reform?

ELISI — October 7, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Elisi: Let me take a gander at your links and get back to you. I stopped in here quickly between errands. :)

In the meantime, the Madore melodrama unfolds.....

Madore seems to be having an old fashioned nervous breakdown now. It is playing out in real time on his FB page in a nonsensical word salad argument with Tami Brewster (who is trying to hold his hypocrisy accountable).

Just in time, Anna Miller to the usual rescue. She speaks for him now, especially when he fails to speak coherently for himself.

Before he deletes Tami Brewster's excellent posts, take a look.

Seriously, this guy is melting down. Shouldn't he be at work right now?

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 7, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

Livingston Mountain does have a nice view but to this lady who loves the mountains...there's no better view than hiking up to the top of Lookout Mountain in the Gifford Pinchot. You can see the entire line of volcanoes north and south on a clear day. It's pretty neat to see Mt. Hood and Mt. Adams in one direction...turn around and see Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Rainier in the other. The roadway leading up to Lookout Mountain is a mess, though. In recent times, we took a trip from Carson, headed back towards Lookout Mountain and encountered a new surface with lots of heavy, jagged rocks embedded in the dirt - the type meant for logging operations and heavy machinery...road washouts and mounded berms to help control continued erosion and reduce traffic on Forest Service 42. Honestly, if you don't have a good 4-wheeler with stout tires, the road makes for terrible driving for the faint of heart...especially when at one point, you feel like your vehicle will tip over. We actually advised a couple to refrain from even attempting to drive to the top with their sedan. There's no way in this green Earth that they could have even made it a mile past where we'd met with them.

I thank the good Lord above for giving me the chance to see a bit of heavenly wilderness. I have some pretty nice photographs to remind me of my bit of heaven.

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well folks, you'll hear it from me. I'm quite concerned that the wishy/washy bi-partisan politicos in DC aren't going to meet the October 17th debt limit deadline. I'm not here to say who's to blame. My concern is the fact that the DOD has brought back a hefty chunk of the furloughed if they know something is about to happen.

There's speculation that if we don't get our government in order could be worse than the Great Recession. Defaulting on a loan by an individual is never a good thing...but a government default is something else. Could this be a deliberate action??? What are we about to face???

Are you prepared?

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Who's attending the Senate Transportation Forum tonight??? I'm sure as heck going to try to attend!

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 7, 2013 at 1:13 p.m.

A person of "MY" age? Holysmokes, holy...just how old do you think I am??? I'm no teenager, but I'm also not "over the hill" as you try to make me out as someone who is. I'm not sure what your grudge against Lew is...but that's your thing. Have you ever met him??? Are you really that upset because he took out the thumbs up/down feature??? Nobody ever really cared about it in the first place. Seems to me he's pegged you pretty well...not even taking the time out to read the articles OR the comments.

Funny...I see the negative comments about Lew here on the forum...but I also have noticed some who have made the comments also take advantage of the informational links he provides. A bit two faced wouldn't you say???

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW holycrabapple, I've never met Lew how can he be my "buddy"??? I might agree with some of his comments...might even enjoy some of his writes...but I agree with writes by the other Lou...Mister Lou, that is. Does that make Lou Brancaccio my buddy as well???

There's a select few I'd like to tell to take a hike as well...but I'm too much of a lady to do such a thing...8))

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie-et al.

A show I try to catch a couple times a week is 'The Cycle.' (MSNBC @ 12:00) It's commentators are about half the age of most who post here. I like to keep in touch with our younger generation. :) It features a four person panel designed to bring balance to political discussion.

I miss S. E. Cupp's GOP/libertarian take on matters. She's extremely bright. (I think she's does the remake of 'Crossfire' on CNN now) Ideologically bound, but not unmovable.

Her replacement is Abby Huntsman, daughter of GOP presidential hopeful Jon Huntsman. Definitely easy on the eyes, but lacking much in substance.

Anyway, I thought of you listening to Touré Neblett's 3 minute rant today. Check it out. (and it's pretty funny)

-Toure on the media's shutdown coverage-

In today’s Daily Rant, Toure speaks on how the media has been covering the government shutdown. “Sometimes presenting both sides with equal weight is journalistic malpractice that increases the amount of confusion in the world,” he said.

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I's cast Paul Rubens in a heartbeat.

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.


nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 7, 2013 at 1:47 p.m.

Flipping depending on the weather??? No flipping, holymustard. I've held true to my what I believe to be the right choices I've made in my life. Some political choices I'd made in the past, I'll be honest in saying I'm not 100% happy with the result. Your assumptions make little sense these days, holymustard. Lew Waters has a blog with which I have decided to read and respond as I do many others. You just don't know it because Lew's blog is the only one which I have the pen name of Goldenoldie. He is one of several who I read along...and not all are Conservative blogs. Bet that shocks ya, huh!!!

When I began posting on the Columbian years back, Lew was already posting and he would occasionally answer my questions I'd asked of him...and he answered with the emphasis that it was his opinion - not mine ...even if I disagreed. It doesn't mean I always agreed with him and I've always brought up that point, holymustard. Lew's posts (as well as many others) helped me open my eyes to Clark County politics...something I was quite a greenhorn at the time. I'd done some local hearings and meetings, but nothing like his involvement. What reading his blog (as well as the Columbian, Oregonlive, WW and other sites) does for me is...raise questions which I search for the answers. Sometimes, the answers aren't there. Other times...the tools are there for me to look for the answer I seek. Sometimes he has valuable information on his site which helps speed up any research in a subject matter with which he and I are both quite vocal about. If I accept your reasoning behind your blatant statement that Lew Waters is my "buddy," then because I respond to your comments...does that make me your buddy as well? I know the answer to that...but do you???

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.

I'll be checking it out in a bit. Supper's ready and the "chooks" need to be put back in the coop.

goldenoldie — October 7, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you care about what happens to our lost and stray pets, please come to our public hearing tomorrow (Tuesday) at 10am to speak up, or email the Board at Boardcom@Clark.Wa.Gov.

Madork is at it again with the Humane Society. This guy needs to have his head examined.

Hey HC, I've been hitting the redo button on the captcha and it's been giving me numbers. Much easier to figure out.

hawkeye — October 7, 2013 at 4:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I knew who Waters was because of reading his posts on the Columbian site before FB came along, but then met him at a social gathering a couple years ago. He intentionally said provcative and gulling remarks causing tension and hostile reactions. Then he just sat back and watched. Reminded me so much of Henry F. Potter that ever since then I've had a hard time having that image not pop into my head whenever his name comes up.

jacjak — October 7, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye @ 4:43 pm: Spooky. I just emailed the CC Commissioners about the Humane Society contract and then opened this Forum and read your post.

I swear, birddogging Madork (shame on you) has become a full time job for many of us.

manthou — October 7, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Obama administration pushes banks to make home loans to people with weaker credit

Executives From Biggest Subprime Lenders Are Peddling Risky Mortgages Again

So this time around who will be blamed?

ELISI — October 7, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I just read the Washington Post article Elisi. What are they thinking? It used to be you had to have at least 20 percent down and your payment could not exceed 25 percent of your gross income. At least that is the way it was when I bought my first house in 1973. Our wages were like 6.00 a hour. House payments were 125.00 or less. And we still could go for dinner a couple of times a month. I saved through the banks christmas club at lest 10.00 a week.

timerick — October 7, 2013 at 7:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone know if Bachman will be a top GOP presidential contender again 16'?

Maybe she's vying for the next SCOTUS Justice nomination. I bet Scalia would back her.

///Michele Bachmann: Obama supports al-Qaida and “end times” are near///

"We are to understand where we are in God’s end times history"

According to a new report from Right Wing Watch, Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann claimed in a radio interview with Jan Markell on Saturday that President Obama is supporting al-Qaida and that this was proof “end times” were near.

Referring to the president’s earlier decision to provide small arms and anti-chemical weapons gear to a number of vetted Syrian rebels, Bachmann said:

This happened and as of today the United States is willingly, knowingly, intentionally sending arms to terrorists, now what this says to me, I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, as I look at the End Times scripture, this says to me that the leaf is on the fig tree and we are to understand the signs of the times, which is your ministry, we are to understand where we are in God’s end times history.

Scary as that sounds, however, Bachmann urged listeners not to panic. “Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha Come Lord Jesus, His day is at hand,” Bachmann said. “When we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this; these days would be as the days of Noah.”

Bachmann and Markell then discussed new mosque construction in the US, which troubled Bachmann: “We’re seeing this all across America, it’s like groups want to top each other and be the new, latest, largest mosque in North America.” She said that many mosques are financed by those “advancing the goals and beliefs of the violent Muslim Brotherhood and that should give us pause.”

She then said that the boom in mosques was evidence that the country should completely cut off immigration.

“In my opinion, I think we should be hitting the pause button on immigration and on refugee resettlement,” Bachmann said. “We have an issue now when you have Americans that are being recruited in America and going over and being involved in terrorism, I think we need to hit the pause button.”

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 9:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A way out?

-GOP will be dared to filibuster debt ceiling: Harry Reid makes his move-

Majority leader will force GOP to give up their debt limit extortion dream -- or filibuster America into default

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OH MAN!!!!

The leaf IS ON the fig tree??

Whatever will we do?

hawkeye — October 7, 2013 at 9:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 7, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.

Sharing out of experience??? (wink, wink)

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 7, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.

Ahhh....the good ol' days!!!

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 7, 2013 at 4:44 p.m.

Sometimes, the message was loud and clear. He definitely has a way of getting people to talk.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 7, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.

Nails...thanks for sharing the link. It was truly...entertaining. Sometimes, we have to look at the picture for the whole story rather than just what we see. I get your point...and thanks for the 3-minute lesson...8)))

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone attend the transportation listening session last night? Impressions?

Looks like Benton's summer Clean Water Program Director appointee, Chris Clifford, wet his newly-planted Vancouver feet into the realm of citizen activism last night and brought applause.

Can't have too many citizen watchdogs. Just hope he keeps an unbiased eye on his crony boss.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou: It was no secret that Clifford was brought in and put on the public payroll to play cheerleader and work as a no-disclosure required lobbyist on behalf of the Madore-Benson political agenda for Clark Co. I understand this was small potatoes compared to the Benson fiasco, but seems like the Columbian,or someone, should have been all over this.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh how I wished to attend but couldn't. Family came first. From what I've heard, we're going to see that 10.5% gas tax increase which is a big gouge, especially to those who haul big loads. If they hadn't screwed up on some of the jobs up north, the state wouldn't be in the situation it was put into in the first place.

If and when that gas tax increase begins, expect the cost of living to jump by the same amount or more.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.

Do you have actual evidence to that assumption? If so, then it's your duty as a citizen to bring that to the attention of the officials. Would you have said the same about me or any other Washington State taxpayer if we'd said what he had said? Seems to me, he said the obvious, given that he'd received quite a bit of applause.

I find it ironic that people in general have a tendency to throw blame and accusations in the direction of anybody they disagree. Human nature???

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Stupid titles to newsworthy articles:

"Tree falls onto Hillsboro home, threatens power lines"
Well what about the homeowner? Wouldn't a tree into your house be a threat?

"Blazers to offer McMuffins after scoring 100"
And these are athletes promoting this crap???

"Infant's death in San Francisco deemed suspicious"
Deemed? Wouldn't an infant's death already be suspicious?

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: I complained directly to Francine Reis about the hiring of Chris Clifford because it had the appearance of a another crony appointment. Mr. Clifford's most recent job was as a high school civics teacher in the Renton WA area. How that makes him a clean water expert for the Department of Environmental Services is a reasonable question for any tax paying citizen to pose. Was he vetted through the typical Clark County hiring process (unlike his boss)? According to Francine Reis, Mr. Clifford was hired using Clark County HR procedures. She admitted his boss was not.

All well and good. Now, let's see what he does with this new job opportunity, away from his home in Renton.

Mr. Clifford used to be Senator Pam Roach's aide and "investigator", whatever that is (look up the multiple sanctions placed on her by her own party). He took a trip to China with Roach and Don Benton in 2007. Was it tax-payer funded? The political connection is a little too cozy for an appearance of pure and clean and transparent.

Mr. Clifford has an impressive history in King County as a tenacious, pit-bull citizen activist. His ties and jobs given to him by Roach and Benton tell you where his political leanings are.

I would say, JohnK, that your theories that his primary value rests in his ability to promote a Madore/Benton agenda in Clark County is spot-on. He is just getting started. He will be a player in this C-Tran/Tri-Met battle looming.

We're watching the watchdogs, too. No harm in that.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: The Columbian knows about the Clifford/Benton/Roach connection and his hire.

I imagine they are watching, too.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 9:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: I have lots of evidence for my assumption, but I think you're asking me if I have any actual facts or testimony and I don't. It's quite likely, just like the Benton hire,that a smoking gun does not exist. It may even be legal, but that's a weak excuse and a very low bar.
Often, all one can do is make assumptions based on a history of similar occurrences, reputations, and a sensitive nose. It's also a sure-fire clue that something's amiss when defenders of such actions begin using false equivalents to justify their position.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well JohnK, if it's any indication...our elected officials are starting to throw out threats of possible future civil lawsuits on anyone who makes assumptions and false accusations. Heck, if our own mayor can do it...??? Make sure you have facts and evidence to back you up before you put anything in writing.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie and JohnK: Forgive my butting in here.

We live in an Anti-Slapp law state. Look it up. Moms against GMO just learned that the hard way. It is so difficult to win a defamation suit here, even with egregious lies. Why? Because lies are protected opinion. Being a public official, like Benton, Madore, Stuart, Leavitt, etc, raises the defamation bar even higher. Look it up. Don't take my non-legal word for it.

Nothing I wrote about Mr. Clifford is a lie or even close to defamatory. I asked reasonable questions about the fairness and transparency of the hiring process in Clark County. I stated facts about his past. I said he had an "impressive" history as a citizen activist. Way to go, Chris Clifford.

Did he come here for the job alone? I don't swallow that and that is my protected opinion, no offense to Mr. Clifford.

I am all for citizen activism. I support citizen's rights to question their government. What I DON'T like is political crony appointments that are paid for by tax payers when there might have been a more qualified candidate.

I support paying tolls and gas taxes. You might not.

Just personal choices and differences. Not defamation.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.

After the multiple times Benton threatened civil lawsuits on what he insisted were 'false assumptions', can't say 'our own mayor' is setting any precedence.

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

SRO (Standing Room Only) at the Clark County Commissioners meeting this morning.

Hooray for public participation! Let's hope this translates to a good turnout for the election.

Humane Society contract, seven months in the wrangle, is on the table.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: Threatening to sue someone may be an effective fund raising tool or an intimidation tactic used by deep pocketed politicians to threaten less wealthy opponents, but the reality of a successful suit is extremely remote, even without the problems posed to politicians by sworn depositions.

But if you're genuinely concerned with assumptive accusations, I'd suggest you contact a couple of Clark County's most vitriolic and accusatory bloggers and share your concerns.

One in particular regularly accuses those he disagrees with of being Communists. (I'm betting he's a little light in the proof department.)

What's particularly hypocritical are those politicians threatening to sue citizens for accusatory tactics while accepting and benefitting from similar and far more egregious actions from their supporters.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: good points.

Watching the BOCC and Madore's obsessive nit-picking. He is such a liability to himself and the County and his arrogance/pathology will not allow him to give an inch. Ever.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK I think what Goldie is referring to is a commenter on the face book side that got a letter from the mayor threatening to sue him. I know he got the letter because he brought it by to show me yesterday. He has made the letter quite public. I have not seen a response from the mayor yet. Nor has the Columbian printed the letter although they do have it.

timerick — October 8, 2013 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick: Even if Leavitt has about $100,000 to hire a defamation attorney to the tune of $750 an hour, he hasn't a hope to recover damages or succeed in a suit. In fact, with Anti-Slapp, he is likely to lose and be responsible for the other guy's attorney fees and expenses and penalties.

Leavitt should not have responded to this guy with a lawsuit threat. He should have stopped with a correction on the misinformation. But he did not ask me for my advice. :)

This election is very critical and is getting ugly, isn't it?

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was watching the BOCCCccc...zzzz operate before President Obama's press conference. A couple takeaways.

It's like watching paint dry while waiting to apply another coat, understanding the idea of a much needed primer has been tabled.

Ridiculous stuff. Meilke has been around much too long to be this absent of facts and statistics. Madore is agenda driven whose sole purpose seems to be disrupt and delay regardless of consequences. Stuart spends the bulk of his time explaining procedure and the harmful effects of not following it.

It reminds me (although on a much smaller scale) of Obama tutoring House republicans of default consequences.

All this, and it was about stray cats!!!!!

I hope these guys don't try to take on our homeless situation anytime soon.

No doubt it would be..a bridge too far.

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — October 8, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.

Thanks, Tim...and yes, I was referring to the letter you mentioned. I guess to some people, they must see it as okay if it's done by the member of their chosen party...but God forbid if it's on the opposite side of the ticket. (That generalization can be used for just about anything in politics these days.)

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

You say certain politicians are too old for their positions...

What about the US Supreme Court? The youngest one was born in 1960. They're making decisions which affect our everyday living as well.

Just wonderin'.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.

I'd suggest you take a look at the entire list of politicians and recognize the fact that there's too many involved in just what you are accusing them of doing. Ethical behavior is going by the wayside. In the case of someone at the presidential level or any level for that matter, the "My Way or No Way" is hardly balanced governmental leadership...but then again, that's my opinion. It's no wonder our government at all levels is so screwed up.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 10 a.m.

Manthou, you're not butting in. Regarding paying tolls and gasoline taxes...I believe that is the type of funding that should pay for highway projects. The problem isn't how it is to be funded but WHO is handling the funds and why they go for the engineers who have clearly been found in error of judgment for construction design as well as the outfits doing the jobs. Why were they chosen and who made the choices??? Special Interests???

Case in point - SR 520 bridge. Historic Failure - Tacoma Narrows Bridge...aka Gallopin' Gertie. (just two of several). I'm hoping whatever type of crossing is built, that we're not looking at another epic failure. And just for the record...check out the Oregonian article below about a problem with the Morrison Bridge.

Note the comment "In 2011, missteps by the county and Ridgefield-based contractor Conway Construction (and bad advice from the Oregon Department of Transportation) stalled the project for two months."

Doesn't that give you a warm, fuzzy feeling about the pending project??? recently said you had some property slated for purchase for the CRC project. I hope you don't live at that property. The LRT going by every 7 1/2 to 15 minutes would drive me nuts.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And Manthou...further explanation, here. I have no problem about paying a FAIR toll. I remember the years of paying for the Astoria Megler Bridge...never bothered me. Same with the Bridge of the Gods and Hood River Bridge and when the Dalles Bridge used to have tolls. My parents and grandparents used to pay for the I-5 Bridge toll any time we wanted to visit family in Vancouver. Paying $3-8 one way is highway robbery. The amount must be something that won't take food out of the mouths of the babies and children of the people who have no choice but to drive to and from Portland for work.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here's an old story about Clifford;;=1714074

As far as raising the gas tax for better roads and new construction goes, I'd be more willing to have them bump the sales tax one tenth of one percent. That way everybody pays for something everybody benefits from.

hawkeye — October 8, 2013 at 1:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: No, the property we own has a cute little rental house on it now. The light rail project, if it goes through, will take a small portion of the corner of the lot and we will be compensated for it. 5 homes directly across the street to the East and north are full acquisitions. All of the owners have known for years (since E 17th was identified as the preferred light rail route) about the acquisition. One of the homes is basically condemned already because it is uninhabitable.

No one has to worry about advocating on our behalf against the dreaded eminent domain. I get a chuckle when I hear some folks raging about this. All of a sudden East and North Clark County is worried about those of us with properties on the acquisition list on the West side downtown?

We bought this place with the thought of developing it for office space, not living. It is zoned for both. An attorney to our north just built a beautiful foursquare-type office building on McLoughlin that looks like a historic house.

This property has increased in value more than any parcel we currently own. Even if LR does not go through, it is a great space from which to do a personal services business and we are not worried one way or the other.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"You say certain politicians are too old for their positions...

What about the US Supreme Court?"

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.

I don't recall saying any such thing. Can you quote me on that? I certainly can't. Maybe if they're displaying symptoms of such but....a quote pls?

You more or less equated Supreme Court Justices with politicians. Not the case. But unfortunately with some of the sidebar antics of Scalia and Thomas (& spouse) promoting and attending far right closed door political gatherings, the optics are there.

Regardless of age, politicians of either persuasion possess the ability to think in a forward manner. Just by the nature of things, the aged are less adapt to change and progress. Certainly no hard line in the sand over this. I'd cite Bernie Sanders as a prime example of a 72 year old with a forward vision. Ideology is a much larger factor than age.

Hillary Clinton reaches 65 in a few weeks. 68 when she delivers her first Inaugural Address.

(what, she hasn't been crowned yet? ;)

As far as SCOTUS goes, youth plays no factor. John Robert's age certainly doesn't account for his ultra conservative views.

Meilke no doubt mumbled & bumbled his way through life long before this stint.

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

All this, and it was about stray cats!!!!! -- nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

And I thought it was about gerbils, hamsters, and maybe gremlins. Too lazy to look up the talk on what constitutes rodents in commissioner-speak. So, what will happen if CC separates from SWW Humane Society and goes their own way? Meilke talks of 'private housing' but profit driven public services seem a bit vague in vocalizating commitment...or even accountability. (I base that opinion on the public/charter school debate and how many charters are turning to states for bailouts.) I heard a talk on PBS a couple weeks ago about how Navada was shipping their homeless to San Francisco with a one way ticket on the bus. So will county strays magically end up being dumped somewhere, like say, closer to a large city?

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hillary wont be running Nail.. Gov Christie or Jindahl look to be R frontrunners equal or better than this 40 miles of bad road Hillary.. She has to many Skeletons in her closet...Rep win back the whitehose in 16, Sorry :(((

vanwadreamer — October 8, 2013 at 2:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

"And I thought it was about gerbils, hamsters, and maybe gremlins."

So did the M&M; boys. :) And when pressed for contractual commitments to back up their rhetoric for privatized services, (or in Madore's case, only capable of naming one of "three" viable options for feline sheltering) Meilke lets Madore of the hook with an extended bout of mumbling, hoping someone else will start re-directing the conversation.

"So will county strays magically end up being dumped somewhere, like say, closer to a large city?"

Look out Portland.

Now if we had light rail stops at each of these "kennels", then maybe we could expedite some closure to this self inflicted crisis.

I've heard of some homeless cats taking up light rail seats in other places, leave it to these guys to take it literally....

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 8, 2013 at 2:40 p.m.

Keep livin' the dream vanwa, keep livin' the dream. :))

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 2:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie: If you're suggesting hypocrisy is a character fault shared by politicians at all levels and by all parties, I'd completely agree, but that doesn't make it less palatable or more acceptable, especially when it's so close to home. And not to get preachy, but it's never a good idea to allow the behavior of others to define your own.

Threatening to sue is a bullying tactic. If Mayor Leavitt is guilty, then shame on him. But hypocrisy (no less offensive than bullying) is accusing opponents of the behavior you practice yourself or condone on the part of friends or supporters.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Paying $3-8 one way is highway robbery. -- goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.

I started crossing the I-5 bridge in 1962 and paid 20 cents each way. That's about $4.60 or so in today's money. Inflation alone makes that same 20 cents at $1.53 today, not factoring in all the other aspects that would also be adjusted to today's money, such as cost of building material, labor, bridge maintance, security, etc. And while $8 seems like a reach for each way, even that amount is not so shocking, especially for those of us who have paid 3 to 5 seperate tolls in order to get to work each day while on the east coast, and then paid them again just to get home.

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 2:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 8, 2013 at 2:40 p.m.

Piyush Jindal? Seriously? If you think the country is having trouble with a black man, throw an Indian in the mix and see what shakes out. All of the rumors would make for interesting reading.

As far as Christie goes, he's too far to the left to get the "right" vote.

hawkeye — October 8, 2013 at 3:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What about the US Supreme Court? The youngest one was born in 1960. They're making decisions which affect our everyday living as well.

Just wonderin'.

goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.

At this point I'm more concerned with their political leaning, influences, and contacts more than their ages.

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nails @ 11:54,

No - Not stray cats. It was about rabbits. Can you blame him?

roger — October 8, 2013 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

It's about qualifications.. These two have what it takes to get the US back up and running ..Obama was all OJT ... Look at his first term cabinet.. How many finished.. Now look at his second term cabinet .. He just never surrounded himself with articulate informed knowledgeable people.. Geitner was the worst and in probably the most important post..Now all Obama is trying to do is get his lone pet bill through so he can say folks look what I did.. Well most know it will be picked apart and trashed in a few years.. Cost is to high.. Most people already dont want to pay for other peoples health care when there own is so expensive do you?. We need a president that isnt from congress then well see a real leader ... Our folks in congress arnt leaders..Lemmings on both sides..

vanwadreamer — October 8, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 8, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.

Yosemite Meilke? Elmer Madore? Bugs Stuart?

Looney Tunes for sure!

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Anyone watching C-Tran now? Freedom Foundation is here from Olympia. There will be FOIA requests.

Now is your chance to see a Madore crowd.

langenthal — October 8, 2013 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Meanwhile, back at Pakistani ranch..

News I'm sure you won't find on any right wing website.

///Human chain formed to protect Christians during Lahore mass///

Hand in hand as many as 200-300 people formed a human chain outside the St Anthony’s Church adjacent to the District Police Lines at the Empress Road, in a show of solidarity with the victims of the Peshawar church attack two weeks back, which resulted in over a 100 deaths. The twin suicide attack on All Saints church occurred after Sunday mass ended and is believed to be the country’s deadliest attack on Christians.

Standing in the small courtyard of St Anthony’s Church, as Mufti Mohammad Farooq delivered a sermon quoting a few verses of the Holy Quran that preached tolerance and respect for other beliefs, Father Nasir Gulfam stepped right next to him after having conducted a two hour long Sunday service inside the church. The two men stood should to shoulder, hand in hand as part of the human chain that was formed outside the church not just as a show of solidarity but also to send out a message, ‘One Nation, One Blood’.

As part of an attempt to sensitize the public at large, the human chain was the second such event after a similar had been organized in Karachi last week outside the St Patrick’s Cathedral by an organization called Pakistan For All – a collective of citizens concerned about the growing attacks on minorities.

{Can anyone ever imagine American evangelical Christians protecting Muslims in this manner? Pretty cool stuff from our fellow humans across the way.}

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I'm on my second bowl of popcorn. Easily the best show on TV this evening. Very reminiscent of the old TeaParty rallies complete with David Hedrick (who, surprisingly, was not one of the more hate filled name callers.)

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'd say Pres Obama's biggest problem is that he's never been in charge of anything. It's kind of hard to get people to work together, especially when they don't want to, if you don't know what to do. Personally, I don't think he was supposed to be much more than a figurehead - then Pelosi blew it with her heavy handed handling of the health care act in 2009, and the Repubs made political hay and took the House.

Geithner didn't help either. His solution to economic recovery was to throw all tat money at the banks and other large corporations. And when it didn't work, well just give them more money. I believe it was Oregon's DeFazio who criticized him for being more concerned about Wall Street than Main Street. I'd say more than enough time had passed since Reagan to make it clear trickle down economics doesn't work with the multinational corporations.

roger — October 8, 2013 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: We are watching. Crazy. Disrespectful beyond the max. Anger. Dick Sohn is scary. Who is applauding this guy? I understand expressing disappointment, but this is beyond the pale.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 6:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal-JohnK-manthou-roger-the whole damn forum! :))

Just turned and caught the middle of Sohn's rant. He represents this crowd well. the vitriol is flying!

And he caught a round of applause! This has to help their opponents for sure. Madore and others have created a Frankenstein. Berrigan packin'?

Vantucky conservative outrage on display for sure.

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Peterson said we're no longer a nation of laws because of Vancouver electric trains!

Urges folks not to attend Veteran's funerals!

I need a hanky!

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 8, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.

It's about qualifications.. These two have what it takes to get the US back up and running ..Obama was all OJT

What makes you think these guys are qualified to be more than dog catchers? Regardless, that isn't what the country will be looking at. Seems like everybody said Romney was qualified too.

Jindal is Indian or Pakistani or whatever, people won't trust him, and then to have a Southern accent, it will screw up minds.

Chris Christie is probably the best the Repubs have to offer but he hasn't decided whether he wants to run. I kinda like the guy myself, he speaks his mind but that doesn't sell in Congress. It didn't get Obama anywhere, did it.

hawkeye — October 8, 2013 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails - Get it right. Deb told Smith (COL, US Army, Ret) to stay away from Veteran's gatherings because he sold out what they fought for - the rule of law. A very dramatic and foolish sounding speech, but the argument several have made that the Board ignored their own rule requiring a vote is a valid one.

roger — October 8, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A nation of boondoggles!

17 Trillion in debt!

It's all Obama's fault!

Buses climb hills!

Hooray for Temple!

Several foolish speeches=Several foolish speeches!

I need some hot cocoa!

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wake up Madore! His resolutions were tabled and he didn't know!

Stuart figuring out reverse procedure!


hawkeye — October 8, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.

"Jindal is Indian or Pakistani or whatever, people won't trust him, and then to have a Southern accent, it will screw up minds."

That is seriously funny. But oh so true!

I can't remember ever using this many exclamation points!

There I go again!!

Somebody stop m...SMACK!!!

Thank you.


aww crap.....

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Comm. Madore, as usual, is playing games and appears more interested in promoting his faux victim act and embarrassing his fellow board members rather than getting anything done.
That other members are fed up with his attitude and grandstanding is obvious by their lack of respect for his input and contempt for his behavior.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK: Madore loses support he needs to get his myriad of resolutions passed because he alienates his colleagues time and again. Only 2 others supported him tonight: Connie Jo and Ganley. Big surprise. Madore has not had one resolution pass in the last few meetings. Big Stu was pushing back big time tonight. We almost need a sports announcer at these meetings.

I just hope those North Clark county cowboys who love to pack concealed heat keep cool heads. I really worry about this escalation and would not be surprised to see armed guards soon.

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 8:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I haven't watched but bits and pieces of C-TRAN meetings before this. I'm sure they're by and large not this contentious?

Stuart took the grandstanding comment out of my mouth. I starting to change my mind (a little) about Madore seeking higher office. Seemingly he's not investing much time into this job. Protocol, procedure, issues; he doesn't seem to have his head in the game, and at this point one has to think he doesn't care to.

A one trick pony for sure.

This gelding needs to be put out to pasture.


As a side note, I was phone polled during the meeting by 'Move On' targeting Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler's stance concerning government shutdown and debt ceiling debacle.

High marks of course. :)


///Obama To Nominate Janet Yellen For Fed Chair///

President Barack Obama plans to announce his nomination of Federal Reserve Vice Chairwoman Janet Yellen for the central bank's leading role, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.

Obama will be joined by Yellen and current Fed Chair Ben Bernanke for the announcement at 3 p.m. on Wednesday, a White House official told The Huffington Post.

If confirmed by the Senate, Yellen would be the first woman to serve as chair of the Federal Reserve, and would take over when Bernanke's term ends in January.

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), who endorsed Yellen for the position last month, said he's confident about a Senate confirmation.

"She’s an excellent choice and I believe she’ll be confirmed by a wide margin," Schumer said in a statement.

Working up to the nomination, Yellen received widespread support from the liberal community. 20 Democratic senators sent a letter to Obama encouraging him to consider her for the position in July, citing Yellen's "independence, intellectual rigor and willingness to challenge conventional wisdom regarding deregulation -- traits essential for a successful Fed Chairman."

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou: The last thing Madore wants is to have one of his resolutions pass. Martyrdom is a tough schtick if nobody is paying attention and drama requires a victim, real or imaginary.

I don't know but assume they use metal detectors at the entrance to those meetings. If not, they need to start. A couple of those speakers had some serious anger/mental health issues that went beyond the levels displayed by most of the name callers and the usual haters.

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm not sure what it will take to open the minds of those who blame both sides for this. Republican after republican have been trying to message this. And we could vey well default due to republican foolishness if Obama doesn't seriously consider the 14th option.

Solid interview-some excerpts:

"I think the people that elect these idiots bear a heavy burden of responsibility." -Mike Lofgren-

///Ex-GOP insider unloads: Blame “neo-Confederate insurrectionists” for shutdown!///

"I would take Boehner drunk over Cruz sober," former 28-year GOP staffer-turned-author Mike Lofgren tells Salon

And I’ll say this: I am not an Obama partisan. I have many bones to pick with him, including the healthcare bill. If your intent was to insure as many people as possible, you’d have single payer. You also wouldn’t pay off big Pharma and the insurance companies. That said, the difference between what Obama and the Republicans are doing is like the difference between stomach upset and galloping Ebola.

These people are basically neo-Confederate insurrectionists. They are in substantive rebellion against the orderly government of the country. And one of the things I noticed — and it’s something that’s very common in human beings — we all try to mollify or appease the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner. You know, “Don’t make a scene.” Well, I noticed in the last few years of my service on the Hill that a number of Democrats seemed to be afraid of Republicans. And Obama pretty much wasted his first term trying to mollify them. I think he’s finally stumbled upon a strategy that’s better: simply not give them what they demand. Because this is a deliberate strategy to hold the government hostage.

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I think Gingrich’s speakership was an important way station on the road to our current circumstances. Because he very much polarized things. And his successor in function if not in title, [former House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay, took it a step closer with the K Street Project and that sort of thing to really polarize matters.

But maybe in a broader social sense, I think it was the twin shocks of 9/11 and the 2008 meltdown that released a Frankenstein monster that was sort of sleeping in the American id — a certain totalitarian streak came out, an absolutist streak, good versus evil, where either you’re with us or against us, all of this kind of nonsense.

Plus, in 2008 you had the biggest crash since the Great Depression. And you know, we think we got through the Depression OK – well, we had Franklin Roosevelt. But you know other countries lurched to the right, violently. And there is a strain in the American society that seeks a kind of reactionary order to the chaos they see, that supports charlatans like Ted Cruz.

And although our American political system doesn’t offer much choice, with only two parties and gerrymandering, I think the people that elect these idiots bear a heavy burden of responsibility. They can’t say they’re against the government and then moan that they don’t get their check from the V.A.


Just based on intuition, I tend to think it’ll go on until sometime close to the default date, 17th of October. Because the government shutdown is a bad thing, but a default puts us into uncharted territory. When you screw around with the full faith and credit of the United States government, that’s serious. And I think [Obama] did a horrible job in 2011 taking the invocation of the 14th Amendment off the table. The 14th Amendment states that the United States will pay its debt. This is an exigent circumstance, and he can do it. Just tell the Treasury to keep rolling over the T-bills. And he’s in his second term; what can they do to him?

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Tuesdays press conference for those who missed it. President Obama spells it out quite simply (shutdown/default) while answering numerous questions.

15 minutes well worth your time.

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

After reading last night's conversation, I believe some of us have allowed our disdain for David Madore to lead to ignoring a bigger concern - the lack of a required public vote.

RCW 81.104 (High capacity transportation systems) and 81.112 (Regional transit authorities) spell out the roles of the levels of government and various processes involved in building the systems. 81.112.030 governs the actions of the Southwest Washington Regional Transportation Council, which has developed a plan for the region. This has not been put to a vote of the people as required. and

81.104.030 clearly states the system plan and financing plan for the CRC light rail project should go to the voters. Further, if you care to read the detailed planning instructions in RCW 81.104.100(2)(d), the requirement to place the plan developed before the people for a vote is not negated in WSDOT managed plans.

The C-Tran Board recognized all of this back in 2008, when they passed their Board policy requiring a vote on any financing plan. It was also recognized again by the Board when planning the last C-Tran Prop 1 initiative; the Vancouver bloc attempted to bypass a vote by saying other options than a sales tax were possible, and the Board confirmed that a vote would take place no matter what.

The laws and Board policy all remain in place to this day.

I'm opposed to the project because I don't believe the "let the user pay" funding approach is correct (if valid, why should I pay for schools?). The State sales tax increase (which Hawkeye has been pushing) would be a better approach to pay for something that (allegedly) benefits everyone in the area. But my main opposition is because I don't believe governments and quasi-governmental operations should be allowed to get away with circumventing a clearly defined right of the people to make decisions, especially when they suspect the final outcome of that vote would be in opposition to their plans.

Whether light rail or a new bridge are good or bad is pretty much immaterial at this point. Our governing bodies need to be reminded who's in charge.

roger — October 9, 2013 at 5:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 8, 2013 at 2 p.m.

Thanks for the clarification. I hope for your sake that C-Tran and TriMet don't decide they need the entire lot, structure and all. Doesn't Eminent Domain end up nailing the homeowners with a condemned lot??? Just wondering.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 2:10 p.m

(a bit red faced, here). Nails, I mistook your comment about Mielke being on the job too long as an age-related issue. I believe an apology is in order here...and I do apologize for taking your comment the wrong way. No hard feelings???

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 8, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.

And what is the cost of living on the East Coast, jacjak? How about the average middle income wage on the East Coast as opposed to Little Ol' Vancouver??? Maybe the $5.25 toll works for Seattle Residents, but it's not going to work down here. How does the Bridge of the Gods manage to survive on $1.00 each way? Cascade Locks is a bustling little town as is Stevenson with many, many visitors daily. Traffic is heavy on the weekends, but they manage just fine.

I have no problems with long as they are effective in paying for a bridge improvement or replacement, but the tolls will not be effective if the cost takes away from the family dinner plate and people choose to drive over I-205. If it were $1 each way...flat rate for commuters and $2 each way...flat rate for semi's...there would be no issues.

As laws are passed, so could one have been made to change the reasoning behind the original tolling of the I-5 be used for maintenance/operations/upgrades. The CRC project isn't about the bridge. It's about light rail. If it were about the bridge to improve traffic which the experts have already said it won't improve commute times...more would be in support of the replacement. Therefore, nobody in opposition supports tolling in order to pay for TriMet's light rail folly.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: The vote promise. This is an issue that does not ring my chimes or get me too riled up, although I realize it is important to many voters in Clark County. The vote is advisory, no matter how much it is wrapped up pretty with a bow and delivered with a smile.

We aren't that powerful.

Politicians break promises all the time. It just gives smart voters good information that they can choose to use or throw away.

I think the Oregon legislature is going to kill this project, so I am not expending too much energy one way or the other on the merits of the project itself. I do bird dog Madore, because he is showing signs of pathology that, to me, are concerning. He is losing it right before our eyes. Train wreck breakdown. There is something dark lurking behind that grit-your-teeth-smile.

If the CRC goes forward, however, the collective anger and negative energy being spent in this region fighting a futile battle is as great a poison as nuclear waste and will make living here risky and toxic to one's health and well-being.

How to stay here and protect ourselves? When I get the answer, I will share it. :)

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 8, 2013 at 9:05 p.m.

I agree with you and want to add there should be someone monitoring it as well. Things are getting weird these days.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 7:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 8, 2013 at 11:02 p.m.

There's so much political hashing and bashing, insults and the point that I hate to say I'm affiliated with ANY political party. I'm thinking there's a lot more people than me who think the same. Honestly, I'm a bit ashamed with the political games in DC and in the state and local governments these days.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Regarding the October 17th deadline for the US Government Credit/possible default and the government shutdown...

Just an assumption on my part that this is possibly a political game where no resolution will be made till our military has been pulled from countries such as Egypt and Syria...possibly a move to give the appearance that we cannot afford to fight their battles any more???

Makes you wonder, eh???

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Obama wants you! Feds hiring for thousands of open jobs amid shutdown

The federal government is shut down, but that hasn’t stopped agencies from running lots of “help wanted” ads.
More than 4,000 job postings remained active on the federal government’s hiring site as of Tuesday. Although many ads first ran before the shutdown began, nearly 500 posts were placed in the past three days.
The vacancies include some high-priced positions: a media relations officer job paying up to $155,000 at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the agency in charge of implementing Obamacare, and a senior communications and marketing specialist for the Patent and Trademark Office, making up to $136,000.

ELISI — October 9, 2013 at 7:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore is now going after Sean Guard and Scott Higgins on FB. Add those names to his political hit list.

One of Madore's commenters, Alan Hoff, wrote this:

"We the people have the right, by using any means necessary, to remove a govt that is not working. Perhaps those elected people better wake up to that fact."

That's what I am worried about. Will Madore post something in response to condemn this kind of threat? A responsible public servant would.

There are folks out here who are not mentally stable, just looking for an excuse or validation. What I saw last night was not a healthy show of displeasure.

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 8, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. (waking up still working on coffee-please forgive if I'm making less sense than usual-is that even possible?)

I'm not sure what's worse. Someone riding the coattails of a family members service insisting a war veteran not attend veteran funerals, or a blanket statement as I implied. One thing for sure, Deb is caught up in this to unhealthy levels. It's an electric train for Christ's sake.

No doubt myself and others are too glib about this, not respecting those who have invested so much time and energy. I'll file it in the 'it is what it is' department, but something to keep in mind..

Being somewhat new to the area, is public voting on infrastructure projects common? Has there been precedent set?

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 7:11 a.m

Here's your answer...

Obama Expected to Reduce Military Aid to Egypt

U.S. plans to curb military aid to Egypt

U.S. To Scale Back Aid To Egypt: Reports (UPDATED)

ELISI — October 9, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 6:43 a.m.

Of course no hard feelings. When have we ever harbored such? :)

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.

All the more reason to press in for knowledge and truth. Please consider O's press conference yesterday. He lays out the facts quite well. Compare it with Boehner's comments about this and there you have it. As voters we need to understand and cut through the BS.


ELISI — October 9, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.

Good for them. Time doesn't stop. There will be an end to this shutdown in short time, and job openings are always good to post.

Many government jobs are taken by our veterans due to experience and performance in the system. To shut out government jobs, many times equate into less jobs for veterans, let alone the average Joe.

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Do politicians care if they are caught lying?

A great study that was published in The Atlantic.

nailingit: It stars your favorite Michele. :)

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

I've dealt with a share of wacko birds in my time (and gotten paid for it! :) And have come to know the old adage 'those who talk the most do the least' to be true for the most part. But there is always that one who tries. It's the ones who keep their mouth's shut who usually present a problem.

I think your idea of having an armed public servant at these meetings is a good one.

But most likely Madore would privatize it and farm the job out to Barrigan-Hoff & Associates. :))

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Seattle City Council muzzles disrespectful public commenters who refuse to follow commenting guidelines.

They are revising those guidelines in the face of name-calling like "Nazi" and "d*ck."

Maybe our public agencies should consider doing the same?

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: Yeah. It is a fine line and offensive speech is protected opinion. I get it. Sometimes just the presence of visible firepower and brute strength is inflammatory. Chances are, no one is going to act out physically.

Here's what I am going to have to do: refuse to watch this stuff. :)

I wish there were a "I don't give a damn" pill or vaccine. Something stronger than THC or Xanax. :)

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

President Obama speaks = True Transparency, why should the American public believe what he says anymore. Obama has led by Bully tactics that he was trained for in Chicago.. It doesn't work as shown on the worlds biggest stage. Never has.
Those who talk the most do the least.. Or in most cases are just weak sisters themselves who like to cry wolf...That sounds familiar in the basement Left wing slandering

Who is going to the rally today

vanwadreamer — October 9, 2013 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 9, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.: Suggesting that negotiations could begin when the extortion ends is not bullying and a Chicago trained politician would not be so diplomatic as the President has been in offering House Republicans a face-saving solution to the hole they've dug for themselves.

Hinky Dink and Bathhouse John are crying in their graves over that comparison.

JohnK — October 9, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The amount must be something that won't take food out of the mouths of the babies and children of the people who have no choice but to drive to and from Portland for work.
goldenoldie — October 8, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.

And what is the cost of living on the East Coast, jacjak? How about the average middle income wage on the East Coast as opposed to Little Ol' Vancouver??? Maybe the $5.25 toll works for Seattle Residents, but it's not going to work down here.
goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.

Are you suggesting improvements, modifications, or maintenances to America's aging infrastructures should, or even could, be based on employment earnings? Tolling is not all that new, but completely rampant now w/ privitizing or leasings of roadways, like some are back east. Some states are giving over control of their state roads to private investors, some foreign, because they can't afford to maintain them, even tho they were originally payed for with tax collected funds. Taxing everyone is how it was all paid for in the first place, so why not continue what originally gave us dams, bridges, roads, highways, flood control, dredged shipping lanes and waterways, etc. Even industries, factory, and building boons (think skyscrapers) were built with the help of tax incentives or write-offs. The obstinance of 'no new tax' causes stagnation, antrophy, and quiescence, or worse...decline through self-engendered harm and neglect, imo.

My wage while living back east was lower than it was in when we were posted in Nashville for two years. My highest wages were generated right here in 'Little Ol' Vancouver' even when factoring gdp, inflation, etc, tho is still irrelevant to commuters paying tolls, imo.

To consider babies going hungry and dinner plates with less food is a very good thing, especially when paying attention to how our represenatives vote impact those exact subjects, such as WIC or food stamps or minimum wage increaes. However, specifically factoring wages into the costs of infrastructure is not only difficult but problematic on a number of levels, to say nothing of how JHB votes when those same babies are being directly effected by her vote, again my opinion. I think even beancounters would have to haul out their Cray CX1000's.

jacjak — October 9, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Obama's signature bill is a train wreck as most politicians in congress know. Most americans also know that there health insurance will increase and not decrease as the president stumped in 08 and 09... It will not bring the cost of health insurance overall down. For those like you and others who may believe that so beit.. You are ill informed. As far as "Extortion" call it what you may but there they Rep know what is in the bill and it's costs.. They are just making a stand for the american people. As are a few dems... This bill was purported to be cost saving and was to be supported by the healthy young to sign up.. Well we will see how many of the 40 million uninsured actually do.. Als o the mandate to have health insurance is very controversial if not unconstitutional. Do you or anyone else in the Basement believe the Government can run a program better than the public side, if so there is a sucker born every minute. Right now my private health care bill is less than half what it would be on the Wa exchange... That being said looking at the Washington state insurance commissoners website you can see those private companies that have filed for rate increases and how much. You can also see how much they were approved for. This is just an open license for the private sector to increase there rates until they get to the level of Obamacare rates... It will take maybe 3 to 4 years but they will get there. So where is the cost savings the President Promissed, none of you here have evn touched that subjetc, you just come back with partisan rhetoric like using the words Extortion. Well If any of the dems in the house or senate had any balls they would vote against it as well. They don't have to.. Wait until the mid term elections...We will have a year under obamacare and the gen public will see ther actual costs.. Wait till you see how much you have to pay come tax time and you arn't even on the program... Take your heads out of the sand folks...

vanwadreamer — October 9, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

The republicans in Congress have passed legislation with the help of a few democrats to fund the government but the "Senate Dems" are the ones holding up signing the last three bills. The president has also said he wouldn't sign the bills. So who is to blame>>> well they both are , but at this point the Republicans have sent Harry Reid and th president bills that would fund the government... Why won't the Dems and the president pass them. Because the President wants all or nothing, he is the one where the BUCK STOPS AT... he is the leader, why isn''t he leading instead of being the cause of the impass. As we know he wants to raise the debt ceiling so he can spend some more money and put it on thae backs fo the tax payers and future tax payers. Obamacare is going to tax our country down the drain , straining the financial pocket book of the middle class. Thats why the R are doing what they have done. 17 trillion and growing.. Bythe end of his 2nd term it will be over19 trillion

vanwadreamer — October 9, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

House votes 425-0 to restore death benefits for fallen soldiers

They should have never been denied in the first place.

ELISI — October 9, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We paid $634 million for the Obamacare sites and all we got was this lousy 404

The reason for this nationwide headache apparently stems from poorly written code, which buckled under the heavy influx of traffic that its engineers and administrators should have seen coming. But the fact that can’t do the one job it was built to do isn’t the most infuriating part of this debacle – it’s that we, the taxpayers, seem to have forked up more than $634 million of the federal purse to build the digital equivalent of a rock.
The exact cost to build, according to U.S. government records, appears to have been $634,320,919, which we paid to a company you probably never heard of: CGI Federal. The company originally won the contract back in 2011, but at that time, the cost was expected to run “up to” $93.7 million – still a chunk of change, but nothing near where it ended up.

ELISI — October 9, 2013 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Hinky Dink and Bathhouse John are crying in their graves over that comparison."

JohnK — October 9, 2013 at 10:40 a.m.

Thanks for the history lesson. I appreciate learning new things, and your take on this as well.

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A defining moment!

///Jon Stewart Calls Out Republicans For Not Owning The Shutdown: 'Don't Fart And Point At The Dog'///

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — October 9, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.

You're misinterpreting my message. What I am saying is that the price of tolling should be in balance with the cost of living for the community and the tolling should be within reason. $8 one way is not reasonable for Clark County. Clark County still hasn't recovered fully from 2008's Great Recession. Just checking the employment numbers and the number of foreclosures and bankruptcies since 2007 is a good indication. With the ball in TriMet's court, they'll easily set up tolling with Clark County paying a lion's share of the debt of the bridge. They won't accept Clark County's commuters' wages as a database. They'll set their own and we can't say a DAMN thing about it, thanks to our joke of a Board of Directors at C-Tran.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 9, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

What do you mean "Something ugly will happen???" Holydonis, it already did when C-Tran stripped our voting rights with their reckless decision.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nail, This is even a better Jon Stewart Interview.. Very Telling

Now check out part II

These are just a few of the folks Obama has in positioins of higher decision making...

vanwadreamer — October 9, 2013 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

TriMet...such a wonderful transit group, they secret pay raises to some...cutting others out. Gotta keep the union members happy. They're more important. Yeah...right.

(courtesy of Oregonlive)

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak, regarding my post @12:53 pm...

This article supports my comment and it just about sums up how Oregon's Tolling Authority will gouge the commuters:

I'm not making this stuff up, jacjak.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What do you mean "Something ugly will happen???" Holydonis, it already did when C-Tran stripped our voting rights with their reckless decision.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.

OK, wait a minute here. Who says we have the right to vote on anything C-tran other than a request for a tax hike? Did they approve a tax hike or a rate hike that I'm not aware of? Are they charging us more money to ride the bus? Where were "our rights" stripped?

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 1:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 9, 2013 at 1:25 p.m. mean to tell me you're blaming Madore's actions and not the actions of the rest of the clowns on the job??? Come on,'s a danged carnival ride and we're the ones paying for it. The people are fed up, Holydonis. Madore came in late to the game. We've been fighting the bureaucratic BS...the methodical elimination of our rights as voters...the strongarm/backdoor politics...

and this was long before Madore was even recognized as a member of the community in our county. You've got to take off your blinders and see the entire picture, holydonis.

You say this county has never been "like this before..." Well my friend...our nation changed right around September 11, 2001 and hasn't been the same since. I agree with you that it is only going to get worse before it gets better. No doubt in my mind. We can put the blame on one person here and one person there or even an entire political group...but the problem is still there even if they aren't. Remember the blame on GWB??? And now today...people are blaming BHO. And on the local scene...remember when people condemned Royce Pollard for his decisions??? Today it's Leavitt. I could go on and on with several examples, but I think you get my drift. Now the question is...has playing the blame game ever resolved the issues???

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The Great Bridge, (Brooklyn Bridge) by David McCullough, is a fun read for anyone wishing to place the building of our new bridge into context. It's not a big stretch to replace the names of those opposing and favoring its construction with many of their present day counterparts. Many of the arguments and predictions of gloom and failure will sound familiar, even to those opposed to the light rail and tolling which the bridge was built with and successfully accommodated for decades.

JohnK — October 9, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 1:36 p.m.

Been sleepin' in late these days, hawk??? Did you forget the people of Clark County have three times voted NO to light rail or paying any tax increase for anything light rail??? C-Tran's 5-man mob went ahead and hastily opened their arms in a 5-4 approval vote to allow TriMet's light rail into Clark County. We should have had the final vote stating whether or not we wanted MAX here...and they gave our rights away without even blinking. You'd best read the PDF included in the article, Hawk.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.

Yup, read the contract. Seems to me they (the board) got one over on Tri-Met. A much better contract than I would have expected. No wonder they signed it so fast.

I am aware that Vancouver has voted against some things light rail related, the County hasn't. Regardless, I didn't see anything in the contract with them that will cost us (the residents of this County) anything, did you? If you did, please cite.

Like I've been saying for a long time, we really have no voice in this. This is a Federal and 2 state operation, us little people don't count.

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Why just today.....

///The Intelligencer / Wheeling News-Register///

WHEELING -- Several sources confirmed to The Intelligencer this evening that Thomas Picard, a former Wheeling police officer, fired more than 20 shots into the U.S. Federal Building in Wheeling before being killed.

A motive is not yet known, Wheeling Police Chief Shawn Schwertfeger said at a 5:30 p.m. press conference.

A news release sent out by the City of Wheeling also contained the header "Picard Release." Schwertfeger would not confirm the shooter's identity, only noting that he worked for the department until his July 2000 resignation.

The shooting took place about 2:45 p.m. today. Witnesses said Picard positioned himself in a parking lot across the street from the Federal Building and opened fire.

A Wheeling police officer, responding to the scene, shot and killed Picard. That officer has been placed on administrative leave pending a review of the shooting, Schwertfeger said.

Two security guards at the Federal Building also received minor injuries consistent with breaking glass, U.S. Marshal Gary Gaskins said. Both have been treated and released at a local hospital.

The Federal Building may not have been Picard's only target, as an eyewitness to the shooting said he also may have been targeting the nearby Wheeling YWCA.

Wheeling resident Carla Webb Daniels said she witnessed Picard fire from the Chase Bank parking lot across Chapline Street from the Federal Building. Daniels said she was in her attorney's office when she heard loud gun shots. When she looked out she saw a white male standing between a silver or gold SUV and a white vehicle in the parking lot pull out a gun and start shooting at the federal building. She then saw the shooter put down the assault rifle and reload before shooting at the YWCA building.

"I was so nervous, I couldn't believe it," Daniels said. "People were scared and were banging on the doors asking to be let in."

A local store manger, who asked to not be named, said she was working in the back of her shop on 12th Street when she heard loud shots. She said she went to the front of the store and heard a series of fast pops. She said it sounded like the shooter had two different guns based on the different sounds of the shots fired.

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 2:24 p.m. AND holycrapola — October 9, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.,

Maybe you missed the first sentence in section 1.7 Engagement of Trimet, Paragraph 1.7.1 which states in its entirety "Subject to the terms and conditions in this Agreement and the applicable laws of Washington and Oregon, TriMet shall have the irrevocable right to develop, operate and maintain the CRC LRT in the CTRAN district. TriMet and CTRAN shall have the irrevocable right to seek reimbursement from CTRAN and TriMet respectively, for those expenses and those revenues it is entitled to receive under this agreement.

Doesn't that bother you that C-Tran has given up OUR rights to decide the development of LRT in Clark County? This has been written so generally, to the point, that TriMet can now do as they please...under this agreement.

Now read Section 1.7.2 which states "Pursuant to Ch.39.34 RCW, TriMet is hereby granted the full authority to construct, acquire, maintain, operate, extend, alter, repair, control and manage the CRC LRT within the CTRAN district, and to enter into agreements with third parties to perform such functions as TriMet may determine are necessary or advantageous to perform its responsibilities or fulfill its obligations under this agreement with the FFGA."

Maybe it doesn't bother you that TriMet has been given the green light to extend light rail as they see fit with this little clause...and with eminent domain as their backbone with C-Tran...they'll do as they please in order to gain a larger service area resulting in less C-Tran service areas. If you don't see that it is a slow whittling away of our own transit service in order to provide a bigger nest egg for TriMet to bilk the taxpayers of Clark County and bilking the taxpayers out of federal grants and tax dollars as well, then you two are the blind ones, not this lady.

Open your eyes, guys! C-Tran could have done a lot better than this. The crossing project is not a bridge product as Carolyn Crain stated. She was spot on and that truly gets under your scalp. It's not a matter of political preference. It's a matter of using your noggins to see the story for what it is...not what TriMet wants you to think it is.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal

If you don't see that it is a slow whittling away of our own transit service in order to provide a bigger nest egg for TriMet to bilk the taxpayers of Clark County and bilking the taxpayers out of federal grants and tax dollars as well, then you two are the blind ones, not this lady.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 3:38 p.m.

Nope, didn't see that in the contract. And neither did you.

OK, again. Where does it say it's going to cost the people of this County, how much?

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @ 6:54 a.m. --
"roger: The vote promise. This is an issue that does not ring my chimes or get me too riled up, although I realize it is important to many voters in Clark County. The vote is advisory, no matter how much it is wrapped up pretty with a bow and delivered with a smile." "Politicians break promises all the time. It just gives smart voters good information that they can choose to use or throw away."

Please - I KNOW you're smarter than to think I was talking about an "advisory vote" on Nov 5.

As for politicians lying all the time - well, they also are very notorious for using the power of their positions to grant favors and assign political appointments to their friends and supporters. If it's so easy to accept that Leavitt, Stuart, or whoever lied, then why is it so hard to accept that Madore is handing plum jobs to his crowd? Does the (D) or (R) make that much difference.

And I'm also wondering if you're as distant from the pro-CRC crowd planners as you let on here. This redirect of the vote issue discussion to the nonbinding advisory vote is something that just recently started getting made by them. And my memory is trying to kick in and remind me of another one or two arguments they've made that you've mentioned quite early on.

roger — October 9, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk, given the track record of certain people on the Board of Directors and their inability to tell the truth to the people of our city and county, I find Article II, 2.1 a bit unnerving when they begin talking about annual/bi-annual budget approvals, especially because from the get go, the entire crossing project has projected financial data from revenues to pay for the crossing which have thus far been well under their estimates provided by I believe it was David Evans & Associates. So now I ask you this...what if C-Tran's revenues fall short when it's time to pay TriMet??? You think it's not going to hit the taxpayers of Clark County? I guarantee you, the bus fares and LRT fares will jump so that even the poorest of poor won't be able to afford to ride. TriMet has a track record of raising fares and cutting services. Seems contradictory since their main goal is to maintain revenues.

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nails @ 7:53 a.m. -- "Being somewhat new to the area, is public voting on infrastructure projects common? Has there been precedent set?"

An interesting question that I didn't know the answer to. If you checked the links to the state transportation law i referenced, it seems the transit ones were passed in the '94/'95 time frame. I was kind of tied up with the Haiti operation then, and don't recall seeing the issued discussed in either the Tacoma or the Oly paper. However, a quick check shows Seattle's light rail was first approved by a vote of the people on a 1996 ballot measure, so I suspect the law was tied to that project. And it also is at least one precedent to voting on those kinds of infrastructure projects. 1995 was a pretty volatile year in state politics; Foley lost his seat and position as House Speaker that year.

However - The why the law is written that way is secondary to the fact that it is. It's being ignored based on an opinion by the State Attorney General. Now, a State Supreme Court Justice may get to overturn law (as was done with the tax vote initiative; a vote that almost definitely was going to kill the CRC project), but I sincerely doubt that a State AG's opinion on the meaning of a law and when it might apply is grounds to do so. His reasoning that the project was a WSDOT one and the RCW didn't apply was a total crock - a reading of the law shows that WSDOT is expected to be involved in major transportation projects. RCW 81.104.100 lists various roles, to include that of the State, and clearly includes putting the plan to a vote by the people.

roger — October 9, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

My prediction.

The Budget argument has gotten too personal for either side to back down. The Repubs can't, because it will make the party as insignificant as it became after Goldwater's '64 defeat.

The Dems can't because their basic tenet that they have a mandate from the people won't allow any compromise to the ACA.

The question is, which party has the most to lose if we don't raise the debt limit and if this does have the drastic consequences we're being warned about? I think the answer is the Dems. Note that even though popular opinion is turning heavily against the Repubs, those same polls also show an increasing negative opinion of Pres Obama's economic policies. He and the Dem party will not escape sharing in the blame.

So, again, my prediction. How does the debt ceiling get raised? I think that about next Wednesday (the 16th) we'll wake up to the same impasse - but by the time we go to bed a settlement will have been negotiated. The Repub's price, which Pres Obama will pressure Harry Reid into accepting, will be Keystone XL.

roger — October 9, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Eugene's Register-Guard had an editorial yesterday begging Gov Kitz to back off from the go-it-alone plan and wait until the time comes that a majority of our lawmakers are willing to support a joint project.

roger — October 9, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 9, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.

You keep swinging for the fence but keep hitting foul balls.

Again, where in the contract did you see that it was going to cost the County residents how much money?

Feel free to ask your buddy Lew, I'm sure he has researched it thoroughly and will have a ready answer for you. Don't bother with Madore unless you know how to get a straight answer from a forked tongue.

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A number of Oregon newspapers are expressing alarm over the CTRAN-TRIMET contract claiming most of the financial risk will be born Oregon taxpayers. To the extent that's true, we should congratulate CTRAN for minimizing the financial exposure of Washington taxpayers as well as their negotiating skills.

JohnK — October 9, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

All Politics is Local: Erik Hidle posts a 2011 Madore Tea Partyish treatise after the interesting recent exchange between he and Christian "packin' heat-so-fear-me-dudes" Berrigan.

FB: the gift that never dies.;_medium=rss&utm;_campaign=weve-found-the-next-level

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 9, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

That's what I'm saying.

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 9:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore once said: “Once a policy is set, the time to campaign against it is over. As official voice from the county, the time to support that is something I think we all need to get on board, and at least not continue to campaign against it.”

Seems like it's time to move on, David.

Go ahead, try to erase this comment from the "C". I dare ya!

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:55 p.m.

"They publish hit pieces designed to discredit and assign a selfish motive to my sacrifice to defend this community..."

"Shall we swallow their hate speech designed to remove from people like me..."

”If we get to the point where we can no longer afford to fight tyranny with our wealth, we will eventually be left with only one option, violence. With God's help, we can win this battle with ballots and with light."

This after spending time citing 2nd amendment rights; kudos to the Columbian for running this.

Sooo..if God doesn't help him, he will play God himself. There's a Charlie Manson like quality here. Does that make Deb his "Sexy Sadie" & Berrigan "Tex"? I guess that makes Vancouver Spahn Ranch.

I don't know what to say. My daughter attended a couple meetings her senior year of high school for a paper she was working on. These are open meetings for all citizens of all ages, and we have a commissioner advocating violence if he doesn't get his way? Citing 2nd Amendment privilege? For a public servant this is unconscionable to the umpteenth degree. I had no idea he has been encouraging violent behavior all along. He's like an over the hill metro male Sharon Angle.

And he has the unmitigated gall to cite Jesus Christ as his motivation. It's bothered me he hasn't strongly denounced this kind of behavior with his "flock", but I had no idea he was the primary force behind it. How this seemingly shell of a man calls himself Christian is beyond me. I'm a bit outraged.

I wonder how his church feels about this, his pastor, his employees, his contributors, his family, his God for Christ's sake.

I haven't written to our local leaders about much. State leaders yes on a few things. This is energizing me.

I would hope he is hounded relentlessly over this. One can only imagine what he says behind the scenes if he's this brazen publicly. If any violence happens over this electric train deal, this guy has a piece of the blame.

Has anyone researched his background beyond 'the wealthy Cali guy who decided to move here and open business'? Did he have problems rallying others to violence before this?

Kinda reminds me of an old Soundgarden tune, with his Jesus Christ pose n' all.

The nerve of this guy.

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 10:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"The question is, which party has the most to lose if we don't raise the debt limit and if this does have the drastic consequences we're being warned about? I think the answer is the Dems."

roger — October 9, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.

roger- As to how the debt ceiling will be raised, hard to say. If Keystone is in the mix, (personally I don't think so) or any other concession, it'll have to be matched this time with a concession from the right. But all we have to do is follow the money, or lack of it. With the Koch Bros & others pulling back, Republicans will look for any way possible to raise it. Boehner most likely will lose his speakership and the GOP will be in it's death throes. As far as the Govt mess, I don't expect this administration (I think O has finally learned) to reward republicans for the shutdown. This is bad for the right every which way but Sunday.

If Obama uses the 14th amendment to end this debt debacle, so be it. Both current times and history will see him as the good guy in this. But yeah, if we default this President will take a huge hit, as it will happen on his watch. There is enough hate from the right, that this in and of itself is most likely a motivating factor for many.

Are you paying attention to what the wacko's in Congress are saying? I'm seeing about ten highly successful Dem campaign ads a day. Some of these guys are simply amazing, and it's putting the dysfunctional republican brand on centre stage. This is ugly, and for the first time I believe the house is within reach in 14'.

This is restarting republican ugly from last election. Concessions like raising Medicare eligibility age to 67 and chained CPI for Social Security while we give the top 1% tax cuts. A refusal to bring comprehensive immigration reform to a vote and so-much-more.

Politically speaking, this a Democrats dream come true.

///Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low///

Falls 10 percentage points from September's 38%

I think the GOP's end game game is to diminish the power of the presidency. They understand with changing demographics & public opinion they have little chance of regaining it anytime soon or in the future. They want to govern this way via micro management/obstruction way of the house from now on.. They'd better enjoy this while they can, cause it's going to be short lived.

That's my opinion anyway. That and a buck two eighty nine will buy you an empty Starbucks cup, sans holster without roscoe.

nailingit — October 9, 2013 at 10:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The current crop of Repubs has an end game of reducing the power of the entire federal government, and strengthening that of the states. They want to allow the God fearing folks of Oklahoma to be able to live as they see fit, unencumbered by all the rules imposed by the morally bankrupt leftists states like Washington elect to the highest offices.

I'm going to stick with thinking that just agreeing to an increase in the debt limit of a trillion or so is going to be considered enough concession for the Repubs. That allows a continuing resolution and more time to negotiate. Whether this will accomplish anything useful remains to be seen.

This is ultimately all a popularity contest. Relatively few people take the time to learn enough to even have an opinion - most people just listen to those who say things they agree with and follow their lead. And like it or not, people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity influence the vote of very large segments of our population.

Read Jay Ambrose's opinion piece in today's paper - It says exactly what I've been saying. If things do come crashing down, the big losers will be Pres Obama and the Dem party agenda. They have to be the ones to make the concessionary offer. Whether Keystone XL or something else (deferring the ACA one year would probably be too much) remains to be seen. I lean to the pipeline project because it's been sitting there in the corner (like that big old spider) quietly waiting. We've already seen a couple of concessions made in the past year (continuing work on the segment from Oklahoma to Texas, and allowing eminent domain to be exercised in Texas), and I see this as big enough of a plum to get the Repub party's money backers to push Boehner back to the table.

roger — October 10, 2013 at 5:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

hawkeye — October 9, 2013 at 7:13 p.m.

The up-front cost will be in fare revenues according to the agreement and the fares will be set (as well as increased rather often, given their history) by an agreement by both transit groups...usually coupled with service reductions to needed zones. As revenues fail to meet stated needs, fares will rise and bus services will drop. Does it matter if it comes out of fares or sales tax, hawkeye??? As more people seek government assistance or reduced fare still hits all of us in the pocketbook in one way or another. TriMet has continued to zap Oregonians out of hard-earned wages...even failing to pay its own non-union workers any wage increase due to their failures. If you cannot understand my point, then just keep those rose colored glasses on.

Furthermore, the cost of the pet project and construction of the light rail will be in taxes. Taxes we all pay, hawkeye...not just Clark County citizens. Oregon will implement costly tolls because of the debt they're setting themselves up for and if they can't get enough revenue there, by golly you KNOW ol' Kitslobber will put it in the payroll taxes (Washington residents working in Oregon yet again) and property taxes if he can...which by the way, folks who live in Multnomah county are seeing a 9.2% increase today for other issues. They don't know what's coming or going when they vote in these tax increases.

My point is...the bridge project isn't a bridge project at all. It's TriMet's pet project and C-Tran has given into the pressure. The bridge won't alleviate gridlock in Portland. Changing the transit center to end at Clark College is an epic failure. You know that and I know that. Now, we're looking at the problem of it all...light rail. Something which the voters have thrice said no to anything MAX and C-Tran's weak backbone just failed them. The voters have been ignored...hence the reasoning behind Madore's outrage (as well as the outrage of many others, given the size of the crowds at these meetings lately).

Does that answer your question, hawkeye???

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And Hawkeye, before you or holydonis has anything to counter, I just want to say one more thing. C-Tran had found room in their finances to pay for the bus rapid transit line along Fourth Plain Road to Vancouver Mall from downtown Vancouver. Tell me just how they're going to find any more room for operations and maintenance of MAX when they've already taken the chunk out for the BRT, thanks to the September 1st fare increase. They couldn't get the sales tax for it. Where do you think they're getting the funding, guys???

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Does that answer your question, hawkeye???

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:19 a.m.

Nope, all conjecture.

hawkeye — October 10, 2013 at 6:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Conjecture??? Maybe partly, but I guess you didn't read the PDF, did you Hawkeye. I stated the cost will hit the taxpayers (tax-paying riders) through fares and the costs of the fares continue to increase...especially to those who choose to commute via mass transit. If you haven't figured it out yet...the transit system is supported not only by fares, hawkeye. It's also supported by taxes and grants. Grants paid by federal taxes. We're being triple taxed in order to pay for this disaster in the making, but it sounds like you wholly support the dead end to Clark College.

I spoke of the project in its entirety and the costly impact of this collossal mess...but I believe now that you're just being an ignorant one.

And this is how you portray yourself. Well sir, continue being one of the blind leading the blind. I won't have any part of it.

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal

that should be "colossal," not "collossal."

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye...when it comes to the point that you can't drive your own rig any more and you must take MAX to your destination, complaining all in all that your retirement checks won't cover your cost of living and you'll continue to HAVE to work till your 80's...

I promise I won't tell you I told you so.

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, here's some more conjecture.

Things are way too quiet in WA State with the CRC.

What little noise there is says we NEED a new I5 bridge; it's the LRT and tolls that need to be negotiated. The Senate is holding their grand tour, and the state has a new VOWS transportation survey ready to hit the streets.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "grand compromise" package being worked back in DC includes full funding (New Starts and TIFIA loan) as a concession to Murray and DeFazio. And if that happens, I also suspect at least one of the State Senate's Coalition majority is ready to change sides and support CRC funding. That's all it will take - Gov Inslee will call a special session and the project will be back.

What we think or want doesn't matter.

roger — October 10, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger, you've got that right. They don't care what we think or want. Currently, our state gas tax puts us at 9th highest in the country. If they increase our gas tax as they're proposing, that will move us into 3rd position. I guess they want to make a name for themselves rather than look at the whole picture of why the projects are so expensive and why we've had monetary disasters like the SR 520 project. Couple that with the disaster in the making on the CRC project...

Sigh....BIG Sigh......

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 6:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 10, 2013 at 5:42 a.m

I agree somewhat. Although I expect the debt deal to happen a few days from now.

One thing, Obama won't let us default, partially because of reasons you cited.

We're going to start reliving the 2012 election and that's fine by me. GOP is handing Dems winning arguments that were resolved last election. Republicans as a party are done.

"Relatively few people take the time to learn enough to even have an opinion - most people just listen to those who say things they agree with and follow their lead."


When government dysfunction screws with people's lives they pay attention. The right is trying to put the best spin possible on this but, who was that VP nominee in 08'? You can put lipstick on a pig but...

Years of GOP crap is rollin' down the Hill!

nailingit — October 10, 2013 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holybrainless, your math doesn't add up. You think because light rail would be on the bridge, that the accidents will decrease? You think because the bridge would be wider, that there would be fewer cars and fewer issues? One minute saved is worth the multi-billion dollar investment??? Have you checked the records of the two states and their "improvement projects?"

You cannot capitalize on a failing light rail system with a failing transit company by adding to their debt and that is exactly what TriMet and the State of Oregon is trying to do by building the light rail crossing...compounded by the fact that C-Tran's spineless decision will inevitably put them in the same shoes as TriMet.

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Holybrainless, you speak directly to me, claiming Some of Us spend our entire lives with mortgage and vehicle loan debt. Sorry bud, you don't know my situation. Cease with your assumptions. They get you nowhere.

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal

As many continue with there one way theory of blaming everything on Rep, come the 12 mid term elections you will be surprised. The majority of Americans don't want Obamacare, why because they have actually done there due dilligence. While another segment don't think it's a good idea the government plays any role in our personal healthcare. Get this recent poll asked over 450 repsondents if they favored obamacare over the ACA, it was basically a wash. What does that say in itself. Well I would think that is why Obama was elected and relected.. Stupid is as stupid does.. The cost of the program is astronomical, and will only continue to go up as the people the presdient needed the most to sign up wil not, that would be the healthy young. Of the 40 million uninsured only about 25-30% at most will sign up.. The president needs 80% just to keep the current costs what they are. OBTW if you go to the exchange calculator and get an "about price" wait till Dec 15th and see what your price is going to be... If enough people haven't signed up your price will increase. This whole "SLIMDOWN" as it is now known as is a fight between two factions of our government. DEMS VS REP ..The rep want to stop the spending and decrease it, the dems and the president want to increase spending. Most people that are educated know you can't keep racking up this type of debt without ways of paying for it.. Here is the caviat, the President will just continue to tax the middle class and above to pay for his program, not decrease the debt or pay down any of it just enough to sustain it.. There will be many Dems come 12 that are up for relection that will distance themselves from the Pres and obamacare..Certainly my two yougest kids that are 23 and 27 don't like the idea of having to pay for health insurance at the rates proposed under Obamacare.. They did vote for Obama last election but have acknowledged that they were really not up to speed on the candidates and there platforms and would not have voted the way they did in 08 or 12..Now that they are adults earning incomes and learning about how taxation actually works wonder how the law became law anyway. I would think if the 34 Dems that voted against it in Mar of 2010 would be safe if they are still in office. No R voted yes in the senate or the house.. Wonder why 38 dems voted with the R.. I guess thats why the Rep now control the house and that will only grow in 12...

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal

holycrapola — October 10, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.

Hey you see the economy improving any time soon??? It's been how many years since the Great Recession hit??? You don't build upon infrastructure if there's no definite funding in place. You cannot afford to borrow, borrow, borrow! That's what got the US Economy in the place it is today!

Good Lord, I feel like I'm speaking to zombies today!~!~!~!~!

goldenoldie — October 10, 2013 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 9:47: My 28 year old nephew felt the same way as your kids about having pay for insurance. Then he fell off his bike and became acquainted with ambulance and emergency room visits.

JohnK — October 10, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

John K, You are so right.. Here is one problem I have. the 27yr old works for a company that employs 350.. They don't offer Health Ins.. That IS BS.. Shame on them... My daughter does get benefits but does pay a modest amount each month. The ER room can run into the thousands... But to require someone to purchase Health Ins is Just wrong. Most young people don't require Health ins because there not getting injured. Thats why the president is BETTING his entire program on the youth to sign up. Which is not happening. They say they have had like 650 thousand hits to all the exchanges( all 25 states that have them, 25 state do not...Which is another problem the President did not anticipate, 25 states not buying into.... Well i'm sure many here in the basement go online daily to shop their auto insurance, doesn't mean there switching and buying. I'm sure a few here in the basement don't have health care for Various reasons.. The bottom line is the Government doesn't and shouldn't be in the health care business and more into our personal business.

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer: It's probably moot. Not a done deal yet, but it's begging to look like Tea Party Republicans are beginning to pay attention to the GOP leaders and the more rationale members of their caucus and backing away from their attempt to hold our Government hostage because of their dislike for the President and the ACA. (Actually the letters telling them to put away their scarves and return to base from those financing their movement may have played a larger role.)
The silence w/respect to the ACA coming from that end of the political spectrum in the last couple of days has been a welcome change.

JohnK — October 10, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Holycrap..In the millions..GEEZ put down the BONG plz.. Your so out of it... Maybe it's the coolaid.. 2nd Dumbest thing I've heard today.. I can't even repeat the first one but oh well. Keep thinking this.. No one is going to die, just like our Shutdown, oh I mean our slimdown oh I mean we found money to do this and that.. This whole gov't thing is so blown out.. R Blam D D Blaming R.. The buck stops and starts at the top.. The prez choose to shut certain entities down as well as not paying the vets or fallen families ther bennies.. Well Holy all these folks you speak about do they have ins and if not why, too expensive and or they choose to over indulge to say it nicely... They have a cell phone . cable bill, eat regularly fast food, choose not to excerise and so on. I have back problems too, two surguries later doing just fine.. Until the weather changes sometimes get a little stiff. Love you folks that use terms Like GENOCIDE shows one's real intellegence if you believe that..
On another ACA note most of us who have health insurance have yet to see what our new premiums are going to be. Mine with Assurant are going up 37% and why.. Because they can and they have too because they anticipate paying for many more people using the health care sytem. And for those who are not going to sign up ...

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Get this recent poll asked over 450 repsondents if they favored obamacare over the ACA, it was basically a wash. What does that say in itself."

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

Well then those people were morons because "Obamacare" is the ACA (AKA, the Affordable Care Act).

hawkeye — October 10, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

DUH that was my point, they didn't know th dif.. GEEZ.. Just like some here in Vantucky.I'm surprised you got that. really waht does that say about people today...

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 3:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk and vanwa you are right. I have been telling my three employee's for the last 2 years to read and learn what the ACA act is about. These guys range in age from 32 to 45 and not one of them knew last week what it was all about. And these guy are not stupid. They just pay 0 attention to what is going on in our government here or in DC. It is sad if you think about it. Hell it took me years of harping to just get them to register to vote. And then they don't vote all the time. They tell me they don't know the people or the issues. How many of our younger people are like this?

timerick — October 10, 2013 at 3:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nothing like a trip down nostalgia lane with trusted, old college friends, to fade the Federal and Washington state problems........

Sitting in a coffee shop at Indiana U Bloomington (Go Hoosiers). What's playing over the sound system? Jim Morrison and the Doors, The Beatles' White Album, Credence Clearwater, and Jimi Hendrix. I kid you not. The students filling the tables look different, but my old friends and I, if we close our eyes, the last 40 years haven't happened yet.

Strange to hear the same music in this joint that we did so long ago.

The best music stays alive and keeps you feeling young. At least tonight.

Keep the home fires burning. I will be back to Reality, Clark County style, soon enough.

manthou — October 10, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It will be an eye opener for sure. I do think we will see a much more improved dare I say electorate in the years to come as the young people are now seeing more of their money being taken from them by our government where before they just played the dumb card as I say it.. having had 5 kids I know when they are playing the dumb card.. But what is worse is our middle class will see even more money taken from tier paychecks every month for healthcare and tax time when they have to Pony even more up for the health care plan.. Why am I paying twice, to pay for veryone else who is getting the DISCO..Dummy. Socialism at it's worst or best, Its how you look at it...

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 4:16 p.m.

If it was up to me, everyone would be on permanent Medicare.

hawkeye — October 10, 2013 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Ouch! No way to spin this. The Wall Street Journal/NBC poll released late this afternoon shows nothing but bad news for Republicans and it's getting worse.

JohnK — October 10, 2013 at 6:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — October 10, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.

Hope you have a great time. If you run into "The General", throw a chair at him for me. Being a UNLV fan, I still have sour grapes from 87'. :)

I thought you might enjoy this. They just don't make em' like they used to.

nailingit — October 10, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"2nd Dumbest thing I've heard today.. I can't even repeat the first one but oh well."

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.

Allow me.

vanwadreamer — October 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.

Something tells me your predictions about ObamaCare, will be as spot on as they were about the 2012 election. :)

nailingit — October 10, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails @9.59pm

Spot on. Still trying to decipher that comment.

luvithere — October 11, 2013 at 5:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Word of the day: Snollygoster.

a clever, unscrupulous person

Taking nominations now........

manthou — October 11, 2013 at 6 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: We were living out of the country in 1987 and can claim innocence on influencing that win. I do have a UNLV sweatshirt, however, for nostalgia, that I wear occasionally to this day.

We were on-campus students, however, in 1976, finishing up our graduate degrees. We were a bit removed from the undergrad hysteria, but not so mature that we refused to join the crowds downtown after that win for free beer and hysteria. An experience that every college student deserves. :)

manthou — October 11, 2013 at 6:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I just read the article about the planned six-story apartment complex in Uptown...

Too bad they couldn't provide 166 parking spaces in the underground parking. Although I'm not 100% for cluster hi-density development, I believe this might be a good improvement for the area, but I'll reserve my thoughts about it till I know a bit more about the project. I'd like to see more about this project...especially the courtyard, the prices of each unit and if there's any takers for the retail businesses. And what about Dulin's?

Also...does the design match other development projects in downtown? The brownstone entries might match some of the older buildings in the area...but is it enough? Sometimes a theme provides rhythm to a once-dying region. Placing a building with a totally different design element can be more an eyesore than an improvement.

Manthou...I'd sure like to hear your take on this since its closer to you.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 6:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 10, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. and luvithere — October 11, 2013 at 5:58 a.m.

It's no offense to the both of you, but I'm curious. Why is it you consider another person's opinion as something considered "a dumb opinion" just because you disagree with their point of view??? Luvit, you chimed in that you couldn't even decipher the comment yet you claim Nails' comment as spot on.

In my opinion, I believe vanwadreamer has a valid point. The cost of Obamacare (ACA) is nightmarishly more expensive than most can pay now. You've heard the stories. Are you denying that many Americans will be paying more than they've ever paid for insurance in the first place? And what about the costs the medical industry is charging the people. Why is it insurance companies get a discount? Why is it they are unwilling to give that discount to the people who are willing to pay monthly affordable payments...then throw it immediately to the creditors if the people cannot keep up with the costs??? You think with Obamacare, the medical industry won't do the same to people with higher deductibles??? This isn't fixing anything. It's a bunch of bull hockey.

Do they have no regulation on what they charge? Who is guaranteed to keep from paying more every year as the medical industry continues to charge outrageous costs? Come on now, luvit and nails...why do we pay an arm and a leg for an MRI or CT scan? Every day, each those machines pump out dozens upon dozens of results...and it's all stored in their database. Same with x-rays. They've already paid for themselves over and over again yet the medical industry still charges through the yin yang for the services. And why do we have to pay extra because the doctors decide to send a copy to places like Van they can review if needed? Then we're charged yet again...for what??? $2-4,000 for someone at VanRad to say two words in a report??? And physical therapy...let me tell you what a joke THAT price to pay is. Half an hour to watch someone do exercises on their equipment and they charge $500, then do a massage and place ice packs or heated pads on the afflicted area??? These places are jam packed. It's a scam. It's an embarrassment.

There MUST be price regulations in place before the ACA is 100% effective. Obamacare is a failure waiting to happen IF they don't regulate medical care costs.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 6:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Nails and ought to check out the cost of kidney dialysis or cancer treatment therapies and what they charge the patients who have no insurance. I'm curious as to how much the "new" policies will cover in extreme health condition issues.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 6:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Snollygoster appears to be a part of the Democrat playbook from way back. Per Fritinancy,

Georgia Democrat, H. J. W. Ham, traveled around the country during the 1890s with a stump speech titled “The Snollygoster in Politics.” Ham claimed to have first heard the word during an 1848 political debate. He defined a snollygoster as a “place-hunting demagogue” or a “political hypocrite.” The Columbus Dispatch for October 28, 1895, captures the spirit of the word with this more elaborate definition: “A snollygoster is a fellow who wants office, regardless of party, platform or principles, and who, whenever he wins, gets there by the sheer force of monumental talknophical assumnancy.”

During President Harry S. Truman’s 1952 reelection campaign - The president asked Hechler for a Bible, then quickly found a passage about the “hypocrites” who “love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.” Then he added that some Republican campaign orators like John Foster Dulles were posing as self-righteous defenders of the captive peoples of Eastern Europe. He read the Bible passage to his Parkersburg audience, adding that his grandfather used to tell him that when you heard someone praying loudly in public, “you had better go home and lock your smokehouse.” Then Truman sent reporters scurrying to their dictionaries when he denounced Republican “snollygosters.” He turned to the puzzled press corps, chewing their pencils at trainside, and quipped, “Better look that word up, it’s a good one.”

roger — October 11, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Goldie - What gets paid for, and how much, is determined by the policy you choose. I sincerely doubt that any insurance company that refuses to cover things like kidney dialysis or chemotherapy made the exchanges. Whether an employer sponsored plan could have these exclusions - no idea.

My problem with the anti-ObamaCare crowd is that they focus on things like death panels and similar nonsense. The argument is whether our government has the right to mandate a health care program. If they do, then the only logical methodology is a single program with government oversight - I would look more to TRICARE than Medicare as an example of what should be. This crap they put out called the ACA is little more than an agreement with insurance companies to cover the previously "uninsurable", implemented over time to allow the companies to raise rates to cover this, and then a mandate to participate. It's being sold as an interim step in the transition to a true universal system, but the corporations involved will never allow that to follow. Money still rules.

roger — October 11, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldie: The Uptown apartment complex is welcomed by me. We do know a little about rentals in this area, and all our tenants in Uptown/Arnada are young professionals or business owners in their late 20's and early 30s. They work downtown and walk to work. They don't want to spend their precious time in cars commuting. We have not had to advertise for new tenants when there is a rare vacancy: word of mouth and friends of friends step in line.

I think this development will fill a huge need, bringing 24 hour residents to this area, not people who simply work here and drive home to the suburbs. It is a good economic sign that investors want to sink their money into this. Light rail, afterall, is proposed for Washington Street, which borders this Uptown apartment complex. We'll see if it materializes. Even if it doesn't, bus service is here already.

Young people bring vitality and good business ideas to an area. Have you visited Canine Utopia or Foresse or Arnada Naturals or Sabor or Bleu Door or Mighty Bowl or Compass Coffee or Sweet Spot skirts? Worth a wandering on a lazy Saturday.

My prediction? These apartments will eventually "go condo." I know Prestige Plaza's original plan was for condos. They test the market first with apartments.

All ages like this area, too. Very convenient for retirees. The live/work units on Main and E 25th have not had any turnover since they first were marketed and sold 10 years ago. Some of the other units (no storefront) have, but it is not frequent.

manthou — October 11, 2013 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this subject. I was actually through the UpTown Village last week. I see a few areas that still need improvement although I love the quaint look it has to offer...still very pleasant-almost a Bavarian theme, similar to a small village I visited while in Australia. Oh...just thinking about the wonderful Bavarian Butcher Shop I visited and the wonderful smells it had to offer...and the treats!!!! It made Edelweiss in SE Portland look benign. Couple that with a rustic bakery...oh, boy oh boy...I wish we had something like that in UpTown...I'd be a regular paying customer!!! Maybe a hint to the developer is in order...8)))

Anyhow, I was concerned about the project design and how it would blend in with the area. I believe the region needs a good uplift and would love to see more pics of the planned project, especially the courtyard. I've always believed in a centralized theme such as this in any development project.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 11, 2013 at 6:46 a.m.

Some of us don't get the opportunity to choose our insurance contracts. Our employers do that for us and most will be looking for the cheapest policy out there, just to reduce their overhead costs. I wasn't speaking about whether or not the policies would cover dialysis or cancer therapies. I was speaking about the costs of all medical care and how there must be regulations to keep the costs in check. Another example...designer prescription drugs versus generics. Why charge the people $200, $300, even $400 for a designer drug for one month when the generics which are just as effective at $10-100???

The death panel issue...I believe they're speaking about people who couldn't afford the coverage needed for their care...the same people who couldn't even afford the monthly premiums. Their care would be minimal at best, putting them at risk for premature death. As far as government death's been hyped out of fear mongering.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou, one more comment...

I'm all for improvement of Vancouver's (Clark County's in fact) entire infrastructure, including mass transit (hence the reasoning behind my support of bus rapid transit and eventually commuter rail IF the need exceeds the cost effectiveness). What I am saddened to see is expansive zones of tilth from longstanding farms (Erickson's for one -see link below - and part of Firestone years back for another) which could be used as part of the CSA (community-supported agriculture/agribusiness) for sustainable living, turned into mega cluster neighborhoods cluttered with McMansions on postage stamp lots. I'm seeing that throughout Clark County and that disturbs me. We need to continue with a sustainable future and that includes preserving what farmlands we can in order to obtain that goal. With developments such as this planned development, a bakery and butcher shop would be a great addition as would a small CSA venue. And's not just the young adults who see this vision. I just focus on the affordability aspect of our city and county so that everybody has a chance to live in such a sustainable lifestyle. When I heard of the folks near Grand Blvd in the C's article several months back and how they are working together to be self motivated me to think of other ways our community can grow into such a livable structure. It's possible and this new planned structure could easily be doctored into sustainable living.

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 7:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 6:26 a.m.
It has something to do with elections of 2012...if one makes a point, one should try and get the year straight.

Also, you yourself have used a few strong words lately to talk about others' opinion if it did not agree with yours.

Either way - I am working so all have a good day!

luvithere — October 11, 2013 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 11, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.

"Per Fritinancy.."



goldenoldie — October 11, 2013 at 6:29 a.m.

No less than a dozen questions!?! HRRRRRRMPH! Foist, we cut out the red herring and soive it on a platter!

Rrrowf! Rrrowf!

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

One thing fer sure, health care spending is rising at a slower rate than before the ACA.

Griping about ObamaCare is no different than griping about the weather!

Both are a slice of American pie, and whining ain't going to change a thing.

I encouRage all to consult with their ObamaCare physician sooner than later!

Doctor doctor! I'm a victim of soicumstantial socialism!!

"Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!"

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal

21 Political Figures You Thought Were Dead -- But Aren't

Some of these political figures have served their countries longer than you’ve been alive. Some are nearly 100 years old. Some have even been pronounced clinically dead. They aren't!

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Also needs to be remembered that pre and post ACA health care insurance fees are not easily comparable due to increased level of benefits and minimum standards required by the ACA. A requirement restricting the ability of an insurance provider to cancel the policy or arbitrarily refuse coverage is pretty important.

JohnK — October 11, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Have you spoken with your health Ins Company? Or since your Unemployed you are currently without healthcare.. It doesn't make a diff to me wether you are ins or not it's your choice up and till Jan 1st, then you have to or get fined... I would think you would be speaking a different tone if you have spoken with your health Ins company.I doubt many have here. You won't even Know the exact cost of your plan for 14 for sure till Dec 14th. They can estimate it for now but that can still change...Only two plans in WA on the health exchange to choose from. You better hope your cuurent carrier is admitted in the state or OOpps,you may have to sign up for the health exchange, You probaly wont be able to afford to..

Holy, You are correct on several fronts but do you really think people are going to change their ways.. NOPE...

A friend of mine in the business sent this too me and I thought I would share

Let me get this straight.... We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, who have recently demonstrated their objective and professional integrity; written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, and the Post Office all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! Speaking of another cabinet Appointee, Hagel is a DA.. He should probably be packing his office up today. Just can't believe all the great appointees that the Pres has made..

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

This from my same ol friend,,

Just got the renewal notice about my health insurance. For my wife and I, both 59, the monthly rate is $3,918.02 or $47,016 for the year. Fortunately I am able to join my wife's plan. Better coverage, lower out of pocket for $1650.00 per month.
who can afford it, that's why the whole purpose of the Affordable Care Act was to eventually lead to single payor socialized medicine. Remember in 2009, BHO promised you would be able to keep your plan and your overall rates would drop by $2500.00 per year. Gotta love that Hope and Change... Yep How is that hope and Change thingy working out now

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer --- Here's some information you might find helpful:

Washington health exchange OKs 35 plans
Uninsured in Clark County get 18 choices offered by 3 insurers

Hawkeye shared this last week:

I added this last week:

Everything you need to know about life under Obamacare By Ezra Klein and Sarah Kliff - Washington Post

langenthal — October 11, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer: Probably time to tell your friend to stop forwarding questionably sourced emails that having making their way through the cesspools of Obama hating rightwing blogs for the past several years and use your energy to make improvements to the ACA because Obamacare isn't going anywhere It's survived two Presidential elections, three sessions of Congress w/50+ votes, a Supreme Court Decision, and the latest effort to kill the program has Conservatives hoping Obama will throw them a rope and pundits questioning whether Speaker Boehner can survive the embarrassment.
It's long past the time to cut the losses and get on the 'let's make it better' bandwagon.

JohnK — October 11, 2013 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Or since {your} Unemployed you are currently without healthcare..

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.

:) That's not true..on both fronts..what a guy..

"For my wife and I, both 59.."

A couple years ago, weren't you in your forties?! Whatever you're doing must be aging you quickly!

Also, about the same time you claimed to know a small business owner spending more than fifty-five thousand dollars a month, just in advertising alone, speaking of burdensome ..regulations. When asked about it, you kinda disappeared for awhile. Stick around this time, you represent your ideology quite well.

We can gripe and speculate all day long, but at the end of the day it makes no dif.

Think it'll rain today? :)

(try grabbing an umbrella or go inside if it does, if driving, make sure those winderwipers are on)

"A friend of mine in the business sent this too me and I thought I would share.."

Cool, tell Michele Malkin I said hello. :))

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Dear John

Only way to make it better is to start over .. Sometimes ya just got throw out the whole $$hitteroo...Barely Passed the house where how manyDems voted against it.. Passed the senate by only Dems voting for it and the SC by the Liberal justices .. No need to rehas the whole thing.. Stick a pen in my eye the President won the election , were all worse for it.. Here were are again fighting to raise the debt ceiling as the President continues to outspend taxation. But soon we'll be taxed more to pay for a plan that nobody read or understood, has been changed 17 times by the president since it was signed..So you are of the ILK Must be good all the dems voted for it.. But if it were voted on by the people it would lose by what 66% of americans currently. Wait a year and that number will grow and yeah your mind and some others won't change because that's who you is but no problem, I respect yours and evryone else's Opine...

Langethal BTW Your source might just be a little inacurate

In the exchange you have two choices of Companies
Lifewise & Kaiser which have serveral Medal Level Plans..
In the open market outside the exchange you have these companies offering Health Insurance in Clark County
Adain with several Medal for each company..

Your most likely going to sign up through the echange if you qualify for a Premium Tax Subsidy... But you better watch out if you take the full PTS, because you would have to pay some of it back if your actual income come tax time is more than what the PTS called for...If you won't qualify for PTS you will be better off shopping in the outside exchange.. I'm sure everyone will be happy when there first bill comes around in January... And If your one that says yours is going to be the same or going down.. Liar Liar pants on Fire.. Unless your Unemployed and have no health Insurance or make under the national poverty levels through the exchange..But if you couldn't afford it before and now it's a bit more affordable you will have to decide between having your cell phone or Having health Insurance.,.Tough call for many of these folks, How are you going to get your delivery without a cell phone..

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


BH. I am late forties , but my friend is 59 and his wife.. Yes it may rain today but my single opine cannot change anything from my office... These are just some of my Opines.. others are facts...Asa far as the small Business spending 50K a month. Pretty easy when you take in 5Mil a month in revenue... I used to be the buyer in the early 90's for bothe TV, Radio and print.. Pretty eay to spend that kinda money but if you've never done it I guess you wouldn't know.. Kinda like Obamacare if your not involved with it you probably have a view generated from the left , the HUFF POST and other sites of same. You should come visit and sit in on a meeting or two, you just might come away with a different perspective... But then again some folk just don't want to open there eyes.. You never said or posted anything about the presidents fine cabinet appointees. How many has he gone through.. I still think he has vacancies.. You also didn't comment about Jon Stewarts interview with our Health and Human Service chick.. Wow she is on top of this Obamacare...Stuff.

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You also didn't say anything about Obama lying when he said everone will see their healthcare drop by $2500 a year, or you'll be able to keep your doctor.. Oh what about the 1.4Bil he appropriated to a Canadian company to build the National health Website... 53K so far have actually signed up for Obamacare nationally, At this point they are 6.4 Million short of goal, wonder why....Wait till Dec13th when They need 28Million signed up.. Your price may change a bit hen also...I still love ya Nail.. You make many good points with a scarcastic twist. Anytime someone can make someone else laugh that's a good thing. Have to go now... See ya all on Monday.. I very seldom get on the PC on the weekends.. Starbucks is just another jumping on the bandwagon .. Glad I don't go there anymore.

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.

Thanks for the love vanwa, thanks for the love. Back at ya. Glad I can make you chuckle once in awhile. I've always thought my lot in life may be a court jester, just born in the wrong era. Maybe even worked my way up to be a 'Lord of Misrule,' a pipe dream for sure. Now I'm just a flunky for King Obama. Oh woe is me. The pain. By the way, could you pass me the...

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Okay I'm not gone yet.. So I broke a couple ribs last Sunday, Stupid yes fell into an end table trying to dodge my pup sitting out in front of me, Me holding a plate and glass lost balance and Ouchy...... That made me chuckle again... Hey we are all here for a reason. Mine is to support my kids as they grow through life.. And to ba pain in the tush to my other half.. Can't tell what I'm better at... According to her I'm better at being that BIG pain in her tush... I sure hope the DUCKIES kick Some Husky ARS... The Huskies to me are like Democrats. OOpps did I say that... And yes those Duckies are Repubs... Oh well, should be a good game. My wife wants to see it close, not sure if she wants the Ducks to win though... She knows if they win I'll be in a better mood though so I'm thing she will root for the Ducks.

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

She told me she was rooting for the Huskies.

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

For those of you following the BOCC follies/ongoing soap opera/theatre of the absurd, David Madore and Betty Sue Morris are having an eye roll (IMO) of a conversation on Mr. Madore's public FB page. Mr. Madore has just responded to Ms. Morris by saying that she is "[prattling] about trivia..." I'm not sure if using "prattle" is the most prudent and consensus-building choice of verb.

pfaffmachine — October 11, 2013 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Today kicks of the 'Voters Values Summit'! VVS

Exciting stuff that provides a window and directional insight to the Grand Old Party. They're the same! Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow! A favorite time of year.

Bachman, Cruz, Ryan, Paul, West, Gohmert, Glenn Beck...a bounty of the greatest conservative minds in America!

"Breakout" sessions to include:






Where's Sarah?

I suppose a conciliatory prize is in order.

A prize winning opportunity for all!

nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


She said she wouldn't be coming over anymore if there is not any Beer in the frig..Heff is her favorite, matches her hair color...Just picture the woman running through the field in a commercial many years ago... Have a great weekend..

vanwadreamer — October 11, 2013 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 11, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine @ 2:25 pm: Betty Sue Morris has a lot of credibility and her calling Madore out on his fear-mongering and half-truths is a public service to us all.

When do you suppose he will block her from commenting? Matter of time....He needs HIS version of reality to prevail. :)

manthou — October 11, 2013 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou @5:56: That would be an error on Madore's part if he did. You're absolutely right about Betty Sue's credibility. She's providing textbook examples of a critical thinking responses. And you're right about Madore and his version of reality. As fun as it is for me to armchair-analyze him (gosh, what an affirmation and attention junkie he is!), much of what he's doing to our county angers and frightens me.

I love that Robert Dean complimented Madore on treating her "courteously". Since when has "prattle" been a compliment?

pfaffmachine — October 11, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Don't ya love it???

HEY!!!! They got more than us!

I still say for what these guys are getting (bribe money) they could build in a lift span and eliminate the problem altogether.

hawkeye — October 11, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A lift span would bring light rail to a halt, throwing that schedule off. Depending on timing, we could have as many as three runs heading north, and one or to heading south, sitting there in a hold pattern. And has been made quite clear, light rail is the priority consideration with the CRC's planning.

Those three companies should get nothing. All three have gone on record supporting the CRC, citing the economic benefits they believe it will bring to the area. How can they then be allowed to turn around and stand there with hands out, claiming they may lose money from as yet nonexistent contracts if the bridge is built with the 116 foot height restriction a fixed span will impose? Why shouldn't they be expected to adapt and accept the loss in the interest of a greater good, just as many of us are expected to?

The reality is that the CRC was standing there ready to write whatever check was necessary to buy away the last impediment to USCG approval. All three companies could have negotiated for as much as Thompson's did - The CRC was estimating $200 million plus in mitigation costs.

There will be quite a few more lawsuits before this project gets underway. Oregon would be foolish to proceed on their own, without full participation from Washington.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine: The Columbian finally published something about Clark County's newest Clean Water Coordinator, Chris Clifford, in a blog post by Stevie Mathieu:

Madore danced around the issue on FB yesterday, failing to address the implied question: Is this another crony appointment?

manthou — October 12, 2013 at 8:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 12, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.

If they build the bridge at 116 feet, that would allow for 95% (est.) of the river traffic to go through and they could schedule the other 5% for late night travel. Anyway, if that was a problem, they wouldn't have run it across the Steel Bridge in P-town.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Wonder if he can even negotiate for 12 more months of spray tan for $39.95?

Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans Saturday morning that his efforts to strike a deal with President Barack Obama are at a standstill.

ELISI — October 12, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I was traveling to Jantzen Beach yesterday and happen to notice a HUGE billboard at the South end of the bridge. On one side of it there was a sign advertising the "event center" at the fairgrounds. On the other side was Tim Leavett. Vote for him because he supports the CRC. Just struck me as odd, that's all.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal

An interesting article from CNBC about Janet Yellen, Pres Obama's choice to lead the Fed. She has a history of focusing on employment rather than interest rates, leading some to believe her leadership would follow a similar pattern. This article is a summary of a paper she co-authored on the correlation between salary and worker effort; those who perceive they're being paid fairly will work much harder than those who don't.

Thia makes sense, and I'm sure will be used to fuel the minimum wage argument if she's appointed. But does it actually follow when all other factors are brought into the picture? Common sense says that if I'm an employer, and can get more for my money by paying my current employees more than by hiring a new one, I'm going to do so. But how does this factor in with paying several part time minimum wage employees and not having to provide benefits like health care, vs. fewer full time employees with those benefits? Another argument used is that if minimum wage goes up, all other wages will need to be adjusted upward as well. In this situation, I doubt that paying someone more would lead to increased productivity. We all have a tendency to look outward.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger - for your files on toll revenue projections

Matthew L. Garrett is Director of the Oregon Department of Transportation.

langenthal — October 12, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye - I suspect the Steel Bridge was built so low to discourage port/industrial expansion further south. And right now, MAX quits running across the bridge around 1:30 a.m. and doesn't start back until around 4:30 a.m.; this leaves a window for the few that would need a lift. I'm not sure, but I've never heard of a daytime bridge lift except for Fleet Week. They may have to deal with this in the future - I can see a 'down the road' need for 24/7 operations.

But I've said before - I like your draw bridge for the big river. It could be built lower and at a greatly reduced cost compared to the CRC bridge. Most commercial river traffic already schedules their movement for after/before rush hours. And there have been a few studies showing that moving the swing span on the BNSF bridge would eliminate many of the current lifts. A bigger fight would be to ban all lifts for pleasure craft; I suspect Portland Yacht Club has enough big money players to keep this from happening. These guys account for much of the daytime lifts, especially on weekends. That's where the back up of light rail would happen, and why any lift span was determined unacceptable.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Garrett provides an outstanding argument for why additional bridges are the real solution needed. During the course of defending the tolling analysis, he notes that estimating diversion to I205 was not part of the job given to CDM Smith. He goes on to provide his own analysis - that after tolling starts on I5 there will be some level of diversion, but that over time many will return. This is the same argument applied to the SR520 project, yet commuters there are not returning from the I90 bridge route as predicted.

He goes on to say that in the natural course of events, by 2030 the I205 bridge will reach its maximum capacity. This is the crux of the whole argument. The I5 bridge would also be at maximum capacity by 2030, if not sooner. Both bridges will be experiencing even worse back ups than are currently being seen on I5. Widening the I5 down through Portland may resolve some of this - if they can find any more money considering the debt the CRC bridge would place on them - but this in itself will only be a short term fix. The only real solution is loops around the city - the so-called west side I605 probably being the best first choice. But that would take Oregon dumping the approach that Metro has applied the past several years - that personal vehicle traffic has to be reduced despite population growth.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal: I did not know that Joe Cortright is a paid lobbyist for Plaid Pantry, one of the original and most vocal, well-heeled CRC opponents.

That sort of transparency is important information for him to disclose when he writes his opinions.

Are there any objective evaluators of this project, pro or con? Someone whose research and opinion is not paid for by someone with a pony in this race?

manthou — October 12, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou: According to the Followers of David, that would be Tiffany Crouch. :-)

JohnK — October 12, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou --- The Plaid Pantry connection has been included with his name in articles. Here is an entry in the PDC list of donors to Vancouver Vitality:

PLAID PANTRY, INC 9/30/2013 $2,500.00 N BEAVERTON OR 970054124

langenthal — October 12, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I love this little story. See if you agree. BTW, Vanwa, you probably won't like it.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Funny that is coming from someone worth 1.5 million, does he use loop holes in his taxes?
What about many other Hollywood elite, do they not use loop holes also when filing taxes?
Name me one that doesn't. Got to love the messages the elite puts out there...

Mind you that I am not complaining about how much they are worth, just the fact they send out messages such as you posted yet they are just as guilty of using loop holes on taxes as the next guy.

Just some of Hollywood elite's networth..

ELISI — October 12, 2013 at 2:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And this is how you push my buttons, ELISI.

The cat (Ed Asner) is worth 1.5 mil. You then provide a link to personalities worth over 40 mil. You THEN go off about the hollywood elite and tax loop holes. You then insinuate Ed is a hypocrit because he is of the same ilk.

What chaps me, ELISI, is you will undoubtedly argue your point is valid, when in fact you aren't making any sense a'tall.

Pushes my buttons, it does.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go have a beer with Ed.

Drift — October 12, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wow I pushed your buttons...wah

My point was that the Hollywood elite, same as the elected elite critters are the first to cry about how the rich gets richer, while the poor gets big business gets rich off the middle class and poor..they cry about loop holes, well bud, they ALL use loops I asked..does old Ed boy use loop holes? me one that doesn't.

ELISI — October 12, 2013 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, lets strip the film of its narrator, use an ordinary person to narrate, would it still be the same?
Personally, I thought it captured a number of facts quite well.

I have been wondering all week. Did it get that nasty, did we shut down, back when social security was introduced? Wasn't that also predicted to utterly destroy the nation?

luvithere — October 12, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Yes, we ALL know they use loop holes, hell we ALL do..they are called Tax Deductions. I just found it rather funny someone that is considered in the 1% (elite) would put a message out there like that and many do. As I said they cry about practices of businesses when they themselves do it too!

Like Michael Moore, when he came to speak to the Occupy group in Portland and someone from the crowd yelled out that he was just as guilty as the big businesses and Wall Street.. he had nothing to say and left.

ELISI — October 12, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yesterday, while making a rare trip to the Orygun side of the river, something in the back of my mind said to head to Gartner's on Killingsworth and add a bit of beef to my freezer. Not much...just a couple roasts. We don't eat a lot of beef, but it's nice to have a good ol' pot roast once in a while.

I just read the C's article about the late fall blizzard in South Dakota and how it wiped out 80,000 head of cattle. I thought (shaking my head in disbelief)...Good grief, it woman's intuition at work or what??? Those poor's already tough times and now this???

And peoples.....I don't think the strange weather happenings are going to be an unusual situation any more as long as the extremes continue to gain momentum. I hope you are all ready for whatever this winter brings us. Could be heavy mountain snows...heavy rains and a big snow melt again. Could be drier and colder than you know what...

Don't wait for winter to hit.

And on a side note...yeah, you'll get a kick out of this one coming from my writes, but...

Maybe we need to get that bridge in sooner than later. Let Orygun pay for their Loo Rail ONLY to Clark College if we get a bridge out of it that won't have issues during flood stage or during extreme cold and heat. If C-Tran wants to pay for it with ridership revenue, then let 'em have it. They're the ones who will be shaking their heads when debts hit the ceiling at C-Tran. Just don't ask the taxpayers for help. You aren't going to get a lot of cooperation from Clark County residents. I don't have to ride it and I'll choose not to. I'd rather invest in hybrid any day. And that 3rd bridge on the east side...are they cuckoo for Coco Puffs??? Have they seen how wide the river is near 192nd Avenue??? Talk about a taxpayer's nightmare!!!

goldenoldie — October 12, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And the matter about tolls...I won't have to pay for them if I don't use the I-5 Bridge. Rarely do I go to Delta Park and a nice ride along Marine Drive from I-205 never hurts anyone.

goldenoldie — October 12, 2013 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie at 5:10 pm. Three cheers for Gartners, and pot roast! Thanks for the reminder that winter is indeed on its way, although I happily eat pot roast in almost any weather.

Speaking of climate (a lousy attempt at a segue), our District 2 commissioner has requested that we all "pass an encouraging word" to our beleaguered Director of Environmental Services. Madore's latest fb post regarding the hiring of Don Benton is nearly an epic:;=a.236917203032229.59676.231371136920169&type;=1&theater;

Oh my. Lou Brancacchio's going to love it. Pass the popcorn, and a red pencil for editing. Grist, as my mother loves to say. Gristle, too (just to continue with the meat theme).

pfaffmachine — October 12, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

ELISI — October 12, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

What I find funny (or odd) is that you think that a person worth 1.5 mil is in the 1%. You really don't live in the real world, do you EL.

Drift, don't let her get to you, it ain't no big deal.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — October 12, 2013 at 5:42 p.m.

Just read Madore's piece on Benton. Glad I had my feet up. It's really deep over there.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 6:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

pfaffmachine — October 12, 2013 at 5:42 p.m: Reading Madore's version of events (who knew it was all Stuart's fault) reminded me of the courtroom scene in the 'Caine Mutiny' when
Queeg pulls out the little steel balls and exposes his psychosis to the Court.

JohnK — October 12, 2013 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

How about that Penn State football team. Those kids who stayed after the team was hit with massive penalties have saved one of the most storied teams in college football history.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK — October 12, 2013 at 6:56 p.m.

JohnK, one of my favorite movies. It was all the strawberries.

Isn't it amazing how one can be blind to the truth? Oh, I forgot, not the "truth". HIS version of the "truth".

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So why are we trying to work a deal to leave 10,000 troops to continue the search for al Qaeda in a country that doesn't want us there? According to Karzai, the United States and NATO were repeatedly violating Afghanistan's sovereignty and inflicting suffering on its people. The Afghan police force, our supposed ally, is thoroughly infiltrated by the Taliban and others who want nothing more than the opportunity to kill US service members. We will be blocked from every attempt to find the remaining al Qaeda members, and our troops will continue to die for no reason.

roger — October 12, 2013 at 8:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 12, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.

Roger, sounds really stupid to me. We really need to pull ALL of our people out and let them self destruct.

hawkeye — October 12, 2013 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Before republicans start buying their plane tickets, you oughta let this pan out first.

///Rather than savage cuts, Switzerland considers “Star Trek” economics///

Switzerland will vote on giving every adult in the country a $2,800 check every month. How would that work?

You can imagine that if this proposal in Switzerland passes and everyone gets $2,800, that the right can say, “Well, why should we provide healthcare — why don’t we let people use the money that we’re giving them? Why should we provide public schools — we should let people use the money that we’re giving them to buy education for their kids in the marketplace.”

I mean, it would in principle be possible to provide both a guaranteed basic income and maintain the level of the social welfare system that exists in this  country. But politically, that’s an extremely heavy lift. Protecting an existing welfare system which is under attack, while implementing an astonishingly new comprehensive, generous addition to that, without any negative effects on the existing system – I just find that very hard.

So what are the merits of universal basic income?

We have a system that has high unemployment, high underemployment. This would allow people to survive and to live, with dignity, assuming that other systems stay in place. It puts a floor under wages — people could say, “I don’t have to do that job if you’re not going to pay well.” People could pursue a lot of activities that are not particularly well paid but that have a lot of social use or personal satisfaction: art, creative work, volunteer work, working with people who have disabilities.

So if we were a very rich world, which I think we are to a certain degree, it would be a remarkable way to make sure that people could maximize their ability to express themselves but also maximize their ability to participate in the communities that they live in in a full way. Stay home and take care of kids if that’s what you want to do. Take care of your parents when they’re old and sick.

People sometimes refer to this as a kind of “Star Trek” economy — you just said, “Replicator, make me a ham sandwich.” There wasn’t any social conflict around production and consumption. And that, I think, is that kind of ideal in which this kind of a thing could play out. We are probably there in terms of the economics. We are very, very wealthy — we could afford to do this. But we are not there in terms of the politics.

Read more @

nailingit — October 12, 2013 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — October 12, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.

These wacko's are not only predicting destruction, they're facilitating it by any means possible. Look for this to be discussed on tomorrow's 'other than Fox' political shows.

///The House GOP's Little Rule Change That Guaranteed A Shutdown///

Late on the night of Sept. 30, with the federal government just hours away from shutting down, House Republicans quietly made a small change to the House rules that blocked a potential avenue for ending the shutdown.

It went largely unnoticed at the time. But with the shutdown more than a week old and House Democrats searching for any legislative wiggle room to end it, the move looms large in retrospect in the minds of the minority party.

"What people don't know is that they rigged the rules of the House to keep the government shut down," Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), ranking member of the House Budget Committee, told TPM in an interview. "This is a blatant effort to make sure that the Senate bill did not come up for a vote."

Read more @

nailingit — October 12, 2013 at 10:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK and pfaffmachine: Madore's grandiosity. It gets worse when he is alone with his thoughts. He does not seem to understand what his writings reveal. Amazing.

manthou — October 12, 2013 at 10:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Madore's latest rant trying to justify his crony appointment of Benton, almost FIVE MONTHS ago, speaks volumes. His back is against the wall and public scrutiny is getting to him. This latest attempt wreaks of desperation.

I'm surprised more hasn't been made of his (recently brought to light) public call for violence against those who oppose him.;_medium=rss&utm;_campaign=weve-found-the-next-level manthou — October 9, 2013 at 7:55 p.m.

nailingit — October 12, 2013 at 10:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

(((worth a read))) Understanding how we got to where we are. Quite the irony to watch the republican party hang itself. A lynching many years in the making.

///Modern GOP is still the party of Dixie///

-How the South poisons American conservatism and sabotages our politics-

In two earlier articles (here and here), I argued that the Republican Party’s extremism can be traced to its increased dependence on an electorate that is largely rural, Southern and white. These voters, who figure prominently in the Tea Party, often decline to interpret political conflict as a struggle among interest groups or a good-faith clash of opinion. Instead, they tend to identify the country as a whole with an idealized version of themselves, and to equate any dissent from their values with disloyalty by alien, “un-American” forces. This paranoid vision of politics, I argued, makes them seek out opportunities for dramatic conflict and to shun negotiation and compromise.


A partial answer arises directly from the sociology of rural culture. Persons who live in cities learn quickly that the world is full of different kinds of people; diversity — of race, religion, outlook, speech, etc. — is a fact of life. Because of this, they tend not to connect these personal attributes with one’s ability to be a trustworthy member of the community. If they think about the conditions of citizenship, they are more likely to associate them with general qualities of character — honesty, integrity, loyalty — equally available to everyone, regardless of background.

Many rural areas, by contrast, lack this aboriginal experience of diversity; they may be characterized by high levels of uniformity in ideology, race and religion. Given this, it may be natural to assume that “everyone” believes what you believe, or worships as you worship, or looks and speaks as you look and speak. And because these attributes characterize the community as a whole, it may be equally natural to define the latter in terms of the former — to think of these qualities as necessary for responsible citizenship, for being “one of us.” Only a small step is needed to extend this logic from one’s own community to the country as a whole.


There is a sense in which the current shutdown is the culmination of the last 50 years of Republican history. Today’s GOP is the heir of Reagan’s remark that “[G]overnment is not the solution… government is the problem,” even as Reagan embodied the strident, anti-statist dogmas of Barry Goldwater. The Party’s development since 1964 has, in effect, been one long preparation for the time when it would have to argue that no government would be better than liberal government.

Read more @

nailingit — October 12, 2013 at 11:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Drift, don't let her get to you, it ain't no big deal."

Yeah, I know, hawk. It just trips me out when a person poses a wholly nonsensical statement as a valid arguement - with a straight face.

As a side note: Frankly, I'm surprised Ed is only worth 1.5 mil (I -did- verify). I'm thinking the guy hasn't handled his money very well. But hell, as far as I know he could have given bundles of it away (shrug).

Drift — October 13, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

langenthal — October 12, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.,
manthou — October 12, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.,

Part 2 of the CDM Smith report. Just maybe it would be nice to see that report in its entirety. I had to think a bit, but eventually remembered Willamette Week had already addressed Cortright's statements on what they said. Per that article, CDM Smith themselves reported that traffic on the I5 bridge will be substantially less than what the CRC was reporting, and will impact tolling. The article infers that the CRC was keeping this part of the report away from the public record in order to attempt to influence support for the project.

roger — October 13, 2013 at 7:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — October 13, 2013 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Love it. Turley's running on a Chapter 7 platform, complete with "crime rail" and "where weather is made". You can't make this stuff up. If people actually get out and vote, 2 Term Timmy will no doubt be at the helm once again.

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — October 12, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.,

A very interesting article. (And I notice you like to read Messick; you've linked to him in the past.) I think his focus on region is too narrow, and that this causes him to dig too deeply in order to see slavery as the root to the mindset being displayed by the Southern neoCons. He was probably more correct early on when he was addressing the greater diversity in urban areas, and the uniformity of rural ones. The root (in my mind) lies in that our form of Liberalism grew out of the religious and ethnic diversity of the Northeast, and that the current version of Conservatism is a rejection of that culture. The Northwest is probably as good an example as any - We have the highly populated Liberal enclaves of the Puget Sound and Portland, and the Conservatism of the rest of the states. Our political wars reflect the differences in what we want.

One could make an argument that where things have gone wrong is trying to bring about sameness. Messick has a typical Liberal viewpoint - That rejection of diversity is an obvious paranoid manifestation rooted in a desire to force conformity, whether religious, lifestyle choice, or other, based on one's own world view. Possibly true. However, we're learning a very painful lesson that we can't force our beliefs on the Muslim world - A lesson that we've failed to learn from previous attempts to get other parts of the world to accept our Western beliefs. Here in the US, we have Red states and Blue states for a reason; people don't believe the same things. We fought a very bloody war in the 1860s because of this, and the one we're seeing played out now is a different version of the same conflict.

roger — October 13, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Thought to re-print this after hearing the tired "we have out of control spending" from a Kansas knuckle dragger on Schieffer's show this morning. These are the facts. Nice, simple chart, easy to understand.

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"He was probably more correct early on when he was addressing the greater diversity in urban areas, and the uniformity of rural ones."

I agree. Given our locale, it really hits home.

"One could make an argument that where things have gone wrong is trying to bring about sameness."

Maybe. Given the racial epitaph's hurled at this President from day one, to include elected representatives, something's been amiss for too long. It's unfortunate this is such a steep hill to climb for so many.

Kinda agree with you today roger. Combined with 9:06 dynamics, I'm headed to the fridge. :)

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

I know they do things BIG in Texas but it looks like Las Vegas is trying to catch up.

LAS VEGAS (KSNV -- Two small children and an adult were seriously injured Saturday evening when an SUV apparently lost control in a Wal-Mart parking lot in the southwest part of the valley.

Metro police reported the accident occurred shortly after 9 p.m. in the parking lot at 7200 Arroyo Crossings.

The driver, 29-year-old Getnet Tefera of Las Vegas and two children, age 4 and 2, suffered serious injuries and were transported to UMC Trauma.

The accident report said witnesses and evidence indicated that the 2012 Nissan Pathfinder was headed northbound in the parking lot when it hit a planter box and stop sign. The SUV then continued in the northeasterly direction and struck a tree, shopping cart corral and then a column supporting the roof at the front of the Wal-Mart.

hawkeye — October 13, 2013 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Getnet? Really?

I'm guessing the individual had some sort of medical conniption. A WAG for sure, but how else to explain plowing down a bunch of stuff in a parking lot? And did you see the vehicle damage?

I wish the best outcome for all.

Drift — October 13, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Captain Lou of the USS Columbian...come out, come out wherever you are!!!

Why is it I had to find local news in an Oregon news site??? Did anybody here in the forum know the Vancouver Food Cooperative is about to close up permanently??? I didn't till I went to another news site and found out. did I miss it here on our own beloved bird cage liner???

To me, this is BIG local news...a call out to the community for help...and where was our newspaper when this broke news???

goldenoldie — October 13, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

golden oldie: I knew I'd read it in the Columbian before the Oregonian carried it. It's not often the 'O' scoops the local paper.

JohnK — October 13, 2013 at 5:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Wonder if we'll ever see anything like this in The Columbian? The Seattle PI now has a Pot Blog. The latest is

Reading the article turns up that there's a Seattle based operation that rates the various types of weed. And on checking that out, I discovered something. Back in the early '70s, there was a magazine called High Times that shared space with the Cheech Wizard and Deadbone comics on my coffee table. There was an article I remember discussing some of the more potent types from around the world, and included was one from Alaska called Matanuska T*F*. As I recall, they weren't sure it really existed - the story was that it grew in a hidden ice cave, or some such story. Well, it looks like it truly does exist, and comes in one variety (Alaska T*F*) that's listed as a pure Sativa strain.

Interesting. Mixed in among such names as Pineapple Trainwreck and Super Cat Piss, I'm seeing old ones like Acapulco Gold (listed as a hybrid), Maui Waui and Panama Red. I thought all the old stuff was gone.

roger — October 13, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — October 13, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.

Beautiful buds.

Post Of The month award.

Runner Up-goldenoldie — October 13, 2013 at 4:39 p.m. ;)))

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 5:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

JohnK, I thank you for finding that for me. I wish I'd seen it. Still trying to figure out the new configuration of the C's website...and in that note...

My mistake to Captain Lou of the USS Columbian for thinking the C was letting the people down. I so wish the news about the co-op was a headliner rather than tucked away in the maze of article sections. No hard feelings...8)))


Nails...I'm actually runner up to something about Pineapple Train Wreck and Super Cat whatever???



goldenoldie — October 13, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — October 13, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. :)

No insult to be runner-up to these strains! (Acapulco Golden?)

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I know voting is personal for many, just wondered if anyone would give opinion on this initiative.

Given this Eyeman guy's losing track record, (almost everything is voted down or declared unconstitutional) I doubt this will pass anyway.

This seems like a format progressives could take advantage of also. WA Initiative history seems to bend conservative, and this Eyeman guy seems over the top fringe.

///Washington voters to decide 'initiative on initiatives'///

My gut says vote it down. I remember in 2010 the Albertson's in Salmon Creek was home to one of these "activists".

(lazy tonight & using Wiki)

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

And what's up with "advisory notes" to the tune of $107,000. Does anyone think this is money well spent?

Okay, enough of my foray into local politics. Musings while watching Red Sox/Tigers game.

nailingit — October 13, 2013 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

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