Open forum, Sept 16-22

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315 comments

Comments

roger: What inspired you to do your own canning? I am beyond impressed. Does it require a lot of bells and whistles equipment?

BTW, about OUR closest 1-5 bridge not being on the immediate list: Ooops.

nailingit: This is for you and all the other fans frustrated by the game delay yesterday:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/09/15/cmon-seattle

manthou — September 16, 2013 at 7:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Andrew Sullivan's The Dish is taking on journalism that survives on ads-that-look-like-news. Will its growth destroy journalism? Should we all rush out and support non-profit Press like Crosscut?

Food for thought from Mr. Sullivan:

"Business models that treat journalism as a tool primarily for advertisers will kill journalism in the end. Because I mean by journalism not a platform for entertaining corporate-sponsored listicles, but an established fourth estate that readers trust as independent, transparent, and truth-seeking. If journalism is so enmeshed in selling things that ads and editorial are one hard-to-define mush, then its core value – independent editorial judgment – is inevitably debased."

manthou — September 16, 2013 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, regarding your canning and preserving comment in last week's thread...

When you open up that apple butter in the winter...and spread it on some hot scratch biscuits with melted butter;

Or when you open up your first jar of canned peaches to enjoy with some wonderful natural ice cream;

and sink your teeth into either one, tasting the goodness the seasons and your cooking talents have to offer....................

THEN you'll know why I enjoy the fruits of my labor when it comes to canning and preserving. PLUS, you will have taught yourself yet another self reliant technique many haven't a clue about.

Now compound that with utilizing fresh fruit from your own trees or from wild huckleberries or blackberries....................

Ahhh...nectar of the heavens!!!

goldenoldie — September 16, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Even my atheist New Ager friends say that 12/21/2012 was the beginning of a coming together, melding of hearts and minds for the greater good. We shall see.

manthou — September 15, 2013 at 10:39 a.m

Anyone remember the Harmonic Convergence in the late 1980s? Meditations of Peace on a global scale... man, what an idea! If I remember right the date was chosen because of some sort of astro alignment.

jacjak — September 16, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak: I do remember that "convergence" promise of 1987. Jim Henson's Dark Crystal, produced in the 80's, was all about harmonic convergence, for relevance, I guess. Or wishful thinking. :)

Enjoy the original trailer. Seems woefully dated today:
[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzgVPB5dpgghttp://

manthou — September 16, 2013 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - No idea why, but the idea popped into my head a couple of weeks ago and wouldn't go away. The equipment I bought cost maybe $100 total, to include jars, a food press (for separating skins), a corer, a pair of jar lifting tongs, and an oversized pot with rack for boiling the filled jars in. You'll also want a large heavy bottomed pot, a couple of oversized bowls, a long handled spoon, and a few other utensils. The Ball Canning website was a pretty useful starting point, and I bounced around to a few others to get an idea of quantities and spice measurements. With apples and peaches, I deleted the sugar - They're naturally sweet enough.

Goldie - I'll have a better idea tonight on the apple butter. I wasn't about to spend two hours at the stove stirring while it thickened, so I poured the mixture in a crockpot and cooked it on low overnight. I'll put it on high later this evening and leave the lid off to get it to thicken. The peaches ended up stewed. I went with a hot pack, and ended up cooking them because I sidetracked and didn't pay attention to the time.

roger — September 16, 2013 at 2:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, regarding your comment on last weeks forum about canning..

I don't do pressure canning (I have a glass top stove) water bath canning is easy, just a matter of following directions and set time not to be bothered. Easy direction for just about anything you'd want to pressure or waterbath canning or freeze can be found here..pickyourown.org

So far in the last 2 weekends I have blanched, vac-packed 17 qts, 10 pts of green beans, 100 ears of corn.

Last month I made 10 pts each of strawberry and peach jam. (these I did in water bath).

Next weekend I plan on blanching 25 lbs of carrots and whatever zucchini I get out of my garden. Yes, you can blanch and freeze zucchini.
Then I will bake zucchini bread, and chocolate zucchini cake to freeze.
Before Halloween I will make 10 pts of apple jelly and bake up several pumpkin breads and cakes for the freezer.

Golden is right, once you eat the fruits of your labor, no store bought canned, frozen, boxed, or bottled will taste as good.

ELISI — September 16, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 16, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

So what time is dinner, ELISI??? I'll bring a loaf of my wonderful French bread. Can't give you any farm-fresh chicken eggs yet...8))

..

Roger, when it comes to canning foods, it IS a trial and error process. Know also, that if you decide to work with certain veggies like tomatoes...you have to go by the book with them for food safety reasons.

goldenoldie — September 16, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED AT THE NAVAL BASE IN DC??? THREE of them, eh??? Anybody hear of what the shooter's motive was??? I'm thinking Alexis was seeking revenge after some "issues" before he was discharged in 2011.

It aches me to think of what the families of the victims (alive and deceased) are going through right now...and what the victims had to endure.

goldenoldie — September 16, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, just had dinner...made homemade veggie beef soup with veggies from my garden and I made homemade dinner rolls to go with..

plus did a new recipe for brownies...brownie batter on the bottom, drop chocolate chip cookie dough by spoonful into brownie batter.

served it up with a scoup of vanilla ice cream.

ELISI — September 16, 2013 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


elisi and goldie,

Thanks for the advice. I have a glass top stove, but haven't had a problem with using cast iron or with the water bath pot. I had to put the lid on the pot to get the water to boil. As for tomatoes, that was next on the agenda - roma tomatoes for chili making. I've read a little, and already have the citric acid, so I'm going to give it a shot.

Question. Everything I've done so far has sat for at least 24 hours, and all pass the "press the center of the lid" test. Why do I need to take the whatever you call the rings off?

roger — September 16, 2013 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, I don't take the rings off. I leave them on.
My mom, aunts and grandmothers all left them on.

ELISI — September 16, 2013 at 7:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger you better go on Match.Com.You are going to make some woman very happy.Just kidding Roger.We just finished canning most of the tomatoes we have left and also did peaches and pears.I bought 2 salmon last week and put most into sealed bags and smoked the rest and sealed it also.With just 2 of us we should fair pretty well this winter.We have a neihbor that has 2 large turtles and they love the cherry tomatoes.We gave them a couple of baskets.

timerick — September 16, 2013 at 8:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 16, 2013 at 6:32 p.m.

Hope this helps..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKxhI4...

nailingit — September 16, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail that was funny.That man has way to much excitment.Don't listen to Nail Roger you are doing fine.

timerick — September 16, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Whole raspberries, blackberries, marion berries, and blueberries also freeze great. Just spread on a cookie sheet one layer thick until frozen solid then put in freezer bags to be eaten or made into cobblers later. For some reason strawberries seem a little mushy frozen whole, but all berries make great freezer jam.

jacjak — September 16, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit --- Of course, I had to watch him make Rice-A-Roni, spaghetti, and creamed corn & potatoes too! {He's a registered sex offender.}

langenthal — September 16, 2013 at 9:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Don't listen to Nail Roger you are doing fine."

timerick — September 16, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

Probably good advice. Although I have this idea for a realty show...

___

langenthal — September 16, 2013 at 9:22 p.m.

It was all I could do to get through Nacho's!

"{He's a registered sex offender.}"

Gross. Forum apologies for buzzkill.

nailingit — September 16, 2013 at 10:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Any thoughts on setting up a stand at Saturday market to sell these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taql0e...

roger — September 17, 2013 at 5:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


If you subscribe to an "I don't like society and its rules" mentality, then by all means read Charles Bukowski. I lived near him in San Pedro back in the late '80s - He was a very cynical old drunk who hated life. The only thing I heard interesting in our few conversations was tips for betting on the GGs, and none made enough sense to try out.

For a much better narrative on life and its struggles, try reading Studs Terkel - I recommend 'Working'.

roger — September 17, 2013 at 6:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Dagnabbit Guys. When you all talk about canning I think back to when my mom used to can. And I helped. She used paraffin for the jams and jellies. Does anybody do this anymore. I do the freezer jam method thing, myself.

Boy, the school district is sure getting a new one torn about a $4000.00 shower. The cost is high because the permits needed and the codes that need to be followed. Was it let to bid? Or was it done 'in house.' It does seem a little steep as it's only a 3x3 foot prefab stall. Just sayin'.

JohnCasey — September 17, 2013 at 6:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The LTTE by Linda Tubbs is missing something. She says the people of Clark County do not want a bridge. I say HOGWASH !!! We want a bridge high enough to let ALL river traffic through. (NO NEEDED MITIGATION WITH BUSINESSES UPSTREAM) We want a bridge that DOES have enough lanes needed to let traffic meld. (NO SHORT CHUTES) I think most of us agree that a new bridge is needed.

Most have said all along that WASN'T needed was LOO-RAIL !!! Nobody pays any attention to that little factoid. It seems to get lost in translation. The initial cost of that addition plus the O & M for the rest of it's life is a hard pill to swallow. And nobody, who wants LOO-RAIL, seems to remember that TRI-MET is running deep in the red. They seem to think it's just ducky to hop into bed with such a miss-managed system. BRT is the best for overall costs for the next 25 years.

JMO

JohnCasey — September 17, 2013 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You all are making me feel woefully inadequate in the kitchen department. However, I am enormously impressed and inspired. Now that I am "retired", could a small garden and canning, freezing be in my future?

I so love seeing all the urban gardens taking over the downtown yards.
______________
JohnCasey: About that silly shower. The district should have found private funds and a volunteer contractor to lessen the controversy. For me, it's much ado about nada. Just another story to whip folks up into a frenzy. Steve Webb is a fantastic educator/administrator. If he wants to spend 20 hours a day at work, Godspeed. I think he would live a more balanced life if he took home breaks every so often. VSD will survive even if he goes home to shower and give his wife and kids a peck on the cheek before running off to the evening salt mines.

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With all the Freeholder elections coming up, amid other critical ones, I have absolutely neglected to think about the statewide ballot measure, 522, labeling of genetically modified foods.

What are the arguments against? It seems reasonable to me. What do all you gardeners/canners think?

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lPFke...

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The O has a great article about 522 today.

Goldie, it lists Monsanto as a primary contributor to the NO on 522 campaign. Surprising? :)

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2013/09/washington_battle_over_gmo_foo.html#incart_m-rpt-2

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My Light Rail Rant (or damn, do I ever need another cup of coffee)

I don't think anything about the bridge/lightrail gets lost in translation.

This beat-to-death subject is not only (seemingly) a daily Columbian front page story, it dominates facebook conversations, letters to the editor, editorials, political slogans, CC commission meetings, City Council...

...it's the conversational gift that keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

...and giving.

Personally I'm worn down. It's verbal water torture, and I scream uncle!

We should resign ourselves to the status quo. This is our framework. We'll have no light rail until Clark County's demographic changes. We should build some kind of bridge, not only to relieve traffic congestion, but to appease those who'll be too old to drive on it in a few years. Then, a few years after that, these same folk will cease to exist due to the consequential aging process. Then and only then, will this County move forward with any kind of transpo progress.

Until then, build something, anything.

The view from the other side of the river is looking better all the time.

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...and a hearty good morning to all.

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Your light rail rant echoes the one we all heard from C-Tran Board Chair Bill Ganley last week: I am sick of this subject! We have bigger fish to fry! Wait a minute, Bill: YOU signed up for it.

In the end, it will be the side with the most tenacity and resiliency that prevails, I think.

I could not agree more that the South Bank of the mighty Columbia looks better all the time, simply because multiple public transportation options are already in place. I would never have to cross that bridge north unless I were driving to Seattle. Even then, I would take the train most times.

The downtown demographics are changing and the 49th LD is getting greener and bluer, if you get my drift. There is such a divide between rural Clark County and downtown Vancouver, they are almost like foreign countries or different solar systems.

I attended the Arts of Clark County meeting last night and am so blown away by the energy and passion of the "creative class" here. They are a group to be reckoned with, a growing and strong voice that brings some diversity and youth and vibrancy to the mix of interesting and diverse residents and businesses here. Not a bad thing at all. There is room for many philosophies. It will take another 20 years for critical mass paradigm shifts, and, by then, I will be too old to give a damn.

Either way this bridge/LR wind shifts, there will be a mass exodus out of our area by some unhappy residents. No one is going to mourn my moving, unless the ol' man decides not to join me. :)

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou, and anyone else interested..

Check this site out for food items and companies that produce foods with GMO. Plus non-GMO food list.

http://www.shiftfrequency.com/comprehensive-list-of-gmo-products/

I'm for labeling foods items, get the labeling passed, then go for the other food items like cheese, meats to be added.
Wholefoods already do..

http://www.cornucopia.org/2013/03/major-grocer-to-label-foods-with-gene-modified-content/?gclid=CI6k-5ro0rkCFZF7QgodQhEAZA

Here are some more sites..

http://action.greenamerica.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=7608&gclid;=CKPuvMPo0rkCFcdxQgod1CgA0A

http://www.farmaid.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=qlI5IhNVJsE&b;=6281749&ct;=9141885¬oc;=1&msource;=adwords&gclid;=CNephOLo0rkCFS3hQgodsRYAhA

ELISI — September 17, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi: Thank you for doing the digging for me! I will check those links out in detail today.

You are right: this will have to be done in stages, but I see no real downside to labeling GMO foods. It is consumer-friendly and transparent. How bad can that be?

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HC - Thanks for finding fault with what I say. For me, it reinforces that I'm correct.

roger — September 17, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 17, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.

If Bill is a gun owner, let's hope public safety as well as his own is paramount. I'd hate to see the expression "Going Postal", be replaced with, "Going C-TRAN".

"It will take another 20 years for critical mass paradigm shifts, and, by then, I will be too old to give a damn."

Let's see. The average American male life expectancy is 76 years of age, while females currently hang on till 81. On the average, we kick it at the 78 and a half mark.

Using this calculus, are we to assume the average age of the anti-light rail crowd is 58 and a half?

This is important. We should poll the anti-CRC crowd as to age. If the average age turns up to be say, 63 and a half, then the wait time is reduced from 20 years to 15.

What about it Columbian? How about a survey targeting how much longer we'll be held hostage at geriatric gunpoint?

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Damn it!! I'm talking about it again..:)))

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Temple Lentz, in her typically-creative way, has linked the $4000 VSD shower to Madore's advisory votes.

Priceless:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.dailycouve.blogspot.com

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The O has a great article about 522 today.
manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:46 a.m

Almost everything I know seems to start with a book...

"The World According to Monsanto" by Marie-Monique Robin is a real eye-opener and a good place to start in understanding the quest to control the world's food supply. It gets really diabolical when thinking about how bees pollinate.

Also, NPR Morning Edition has done a couple segments on gmos and farm field purity. Today they did a segment about American farmers, and if they feed the whole world, or if Americans even believe any longer than they do and should.

http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/home/ is a good site although funded by the European Union which has banned or regulated gmos so biased if looking for balance or why you may vote one way or the other on I-522. Lastly, I think the 17th LD Dems are having a representative from I-522 speak at their monthly meeting but have no information to confirm it.

jacjak — September 17, 2013 at 11:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 17, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.-Thanks.

Although they seldom occur and are far and few between, once in awhile a lucid moment takes place..

About the shower. I agree with manthou, in that it's not a big deal and should have been funded differently. Given liability concerns, maybe this was the only way to go. With all this negative PR, I wouldn't be surprised to see a $4000 donation (from Webb or supporters) made to the district's facilities division.

HC, if Mr. Webb's intentions are sincere, and I suspect they are, isn't this the kind of dedication we want from our public servants?

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 17, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.

Temple is a master of parody for sure.

Late last night, I don't know, around ten or eleven, I was channel surfing and went to CCTV. Perfect timing! It was the run up to, as well as David Madore's swearing in as County Commissioner.

Hearing those words from the horses mouth, while understanding the drag this County slug has gifted us with, it was a little sickening. He was as giddy as a schoolboy taking the oath. Then, to add shame to shame, he gifted the audience (who had been cheering him on) with his own pledge. At this point I changed stations.

It was the first time I watched his swearing in. The gallery treated him like a rock star. They so wanted this guy to bring them their own "hope and change". Instead they got a self serving pariah declaring war on ethics and good government.

I have to think this filler was at the bottom of CCTV's cutting room floor. If not, it should be.

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A couple things totally off any topic but would like to share. Has anyone been following 'Breaking Bad'? I've got a few shows I like and this is one of them.

Sunday night's second to the last series ending episode was Riveting! Disturbing! Depressing!

Incredible writing to evoke such emotion, and the acting is beyond superb. We watched it a second time last night in order to process. Whew...:)

..

And has anyone checked out our very own Columbia River Chieftains ascent to stardom? (my daughter just showed me the vid) My two daughter's alma mater made it on Olbermann! And the Skyview Storm made it as the "World's Worst..."!

@ 2:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjmq2...

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola...with all due respect...

You are following the writes of a demented person. That speaks volumes about you, especially with your first comment in this week's forum which I find highly distasteful (wishing death on someone you don't even know, in my opinion...is a disgrace). To go along with the writes of your mentor but from a different perspective-

To try to convince others that we're living in Hell,
one thrives in misery and lives his own Hell.

To wish...to dream...
To have something to look forward to,
blazes the path of one's future.

To misunderstand the joys of life
one has no joy.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:46 a.m

Looks like I'll have to check out the wording on this one. What can appear to work in our favor, could be worded in such a manner to benefit the likes of entities of Monsanto...God forbid!!!

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 16, 2013 at 8:58 p.m

A bit of an addition to "frozen fruit..."

Once washed before placing on cookie sheet for the freezer, allow fruit to "air dry" on paper towels first. This will prevent the fruit from sticking together in the freezer as one massive clump.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Our basement "Ecosystem" could use a positive boost... Don't condem the person, maybe the system for allowing it to happen. Unless you know that person, well then you can expose them for your own personal gain, WE that would be. Keep a positive attitude and you'll get more out of life. JMHO

vanwadreamer — September 17, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 17, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

Thanks for emphasizing my point. You write as though you speak for everyone, that your comment is the only one that's correct which makes you a great subject for study by anyone educated in psychology and sociology. Your statement regarding Benton @2:10 pm doesn't diminish the original message. Your wish upon the death of another person...just because you don't side with his political ways is demented in its own right.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 17, 2013 at 3 p.m.

Seems that you have experienced a similar event in your past.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 17, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.

an ASSumption on your part???

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Give yourself a treat and read this obit of a guy named William Freddie McCullough.

What a tribute!

You need the laugh, so go ahead:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?n=william-mccullough&pid;=166950349#fbLoggedOut

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou --- I believe you were the one who shared that Marni Storey is going to Wash Co. Columbian will have story tomorrow. Every time I saw her at BoCC or Bd of Health meetings I would wonder how many opportunities she could be pursuing. Given the other resignations and downsizing, this is a significant loss for many reasons. The department reorg and M&M;'s influence over future hires and values is beyond scary.

langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 5:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit --- from Jonathan Turley:

"Keller will not doubt finish his year with a play that will make him a legend at every reunion party for the rest of his life."

http://jonathanturley.org/2013/09/17/high-school-wins-game-as-opposing-team-celebrates/

langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 6:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The only reason anyone knows about Bukowski is because HarperCollins continues to pump out books 20 years after his death - all directed to the colleges and the counterculture.

Some more gems showing a life view that was so depressing and full of self loathing. He admitted the only reason he never committed suicide was because he had no life to take from himself.

“I like to change liquor stores frequently because the clerks got to know your habits if you went in night and day and bought huge quantities. I could feel them wondering why I wasn't dead yet and it made me uncomfortable. They probably weren't thinking any such thing, but then a man gets paranoid when he has 300 hangovers a year.”

“Women: I liked the colors of their clothing; the way they walked; the cruelty in some faces; now and then the almost pure beauty in another face, totally and enchantingly female. They had it over us: they planned much better and were better organized. While men were watching professional football or drinking beer or bowling, they, the women, were thinking about us, concentrating, studying, deciding - whether to accept us, discard us, exchange us, kill us or whether simply to leave us. In the end it hardly mattered; no matter what they did, we ended up lonely and insane.”

“Lydia came back to bed. We didn't kiss each other. We weren't going to have sex. I felt weary. I listened to the crickets. I don't know how much time went by. I was almost asleep, not quite, when Lydia suddenly sat straight up in bed. And she screamed. It was a loud scream. "What is it?" I asked. "Be quiet." I waited. Lydia sat there without moving, for what seemed to be about ten minutes. Then she fell back on her pillow. "I saw God," she said, "I just saw God." "Listen, you bitch, you are going to drive me crazy!”

roger — September 17, 2013 at 6:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A sellout? Try having moved beyond the need for shock appeal by the time I left my teens. Now, if you want cynicism AND talent, try Oscar Wilde. Many of the same ideas that Bukowski voiced over a hundred years later, but delivered with style.

"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world."

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

"I see when men love women. They give them but a little of their lives. But women when they love give everything."

roger — September 17, 2013 at 6:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC - Bukowski's life view has nothing to do with Americana. His message is self pity and loathing. I mentioned another book this morning - 'Working', by Studs Terkel. That is the Americana I grew up with and know. People can work hard all their lives, and may never attain that pie in the sky they're struggling to achieve, but we don't quit. Bukowski quit, and was trying to get others to do the same with his writings.

roger — September 17, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 17, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.

BRAVO!!!! You hit the bullseye, roger.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 6:06 p.m.

Turley-Wow! I've seen him on the tube quite a bit, weighing in on legal opinions and such. He's a plus to any show he's on.

This is really making the rounds! A great centerpiece for countless River pep rally's to come. Not to mention it was against #1 rival Skyview.

Countless lessons can be learned, in just these few seconds of football.

-Go River-

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A quote worth mentioning:

Write it on your heart that every day is the best day in the year.
He is rich who owns the day and no one owns the day who allows it to be invaded with fret and anxiety.

Finish every day and be done with it. You have done what you could.
Some blunders and absurdities, no doubt crept in. Forget them as soon as you can as tomorrow is a new day;
begin it well and serenely...with too high a spirit to be cumbered with your old nonsense.

This new day is too dear, with its hopes and invitations, to waste a moment on the yesterdays.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I simultaneous with goldenoldie!

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One minute off, nailingit. :) Not quite. Kinda like being slightly pregnant. You is or you isn't.

langenthal: I was wondering when the Columbian was going to write about Marni Storey's leaving. She was another CC leader, like John Wiesman, who enjoys a national respect.

The CC Commissioners are doing the happy dance: another job they don't have to fill or can fill with a political friend. I truly they do not care about excellence.

I see that they are combining two other jobs into one at the Clark Co Event Center, too.

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit --- I have listened to him over the years - Maddow, Olbermann, Randi Rhodes, Ed Schultz, etc. Turley is a Libertarian. From his blog 2007:
"I tend to have a fair dose of libertarian feelings so CATO has always held some interest for me."
"Recently, Republican candidate Ron Paul said that he would like to make me Attorney General if he is elected and I asked what I ever did to him."

http://jonathanturley.org/about/

langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden and Roger I will side with you both.I come home at night and I have my partner and my dogs waiting for me.Bouncing at the door.It makes my day whether it was a good day or bad.My childern thank me all the time for sharing what I have learned and passed on to them.In the grand scope of things I don't think it can be much better.I didn't always feel this way there was a time I had feelings like HC.Seven years ago I held my only daughter in my arms as she died.I thought it was the end of my life.But I had 3 more boys to take care of.And a life I wanted to share with a woman it took me 30 years to finnaly be with.HC I hope you never have to lose someone that comes from your loins and is most precious in your life.What we do in life is very important.

timerick — September 17, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"One minute off, nailingit. :) Not quite. Kinda like being slightly pregnant. You is or you isn't."

Oh contraire mon cheri manthou.....

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 7:11 p.m.

goldenoldie — September 17, 2013 at 7:11 p.m.

Ne vous inquiétez pas. Il y en a suffisamment pour aller autour. :)

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 9:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick @8:32 PM: We lost our youngest son eight years ago. He was only 20. As you know, surviving an experience like that can destroy you. Or it changes your world view and makes you appreciate what you have. It also tends to raise your "upset" bar to a fairly high level, putting minor daily irritants into perspective.

Anytime I become disappointed, worried, or upset, I ask myself one question: Did I lose another child?

If the answer is no (so far, so good), then I know it is going to be a very good day.

I understand what you were trying to convey to HC, in other words, with clarity.

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 9:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Read it and weep!

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/se...

langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 9:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — September 17, 2013 at 9:51 p.m.

Another one bites the dust.

Maybe the Commish will combine Enviro & Health jobs for Benton.

Contraception...a thing of the past?

Beware the religious right...

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 11:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a loser. Nail is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

holycrapola — September 17, 2013 at 8:30 p.m.

Ahh man, what'd I do??? Please don't drag me in this direction. Besides, goldenoldie & I had a moment today.

nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 11:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal: I remember, a couple of years ago, Tom Mielke wanting to cut off all undocumented residents (he used the term "illegals") from county healthcare services. No immunizations. No TB screenings. No early intervention services for infants. Show us your SS card or we're gonna shut the door.

We all know what that would to the risk to everyone's health.

I wrote John Wiesman and Mani Storey immediately and encouraged them to fight back, which they both did, with great diplomacy. They both said, basically, this will never happen on our watch. I later met Dr. Melnick and Ms. Storey when they paid a visit to my work site and was so impressed with this trio's collective passion for doing good and ethical deeds in their jobs.

Dr. Melnick is on his own now and I cannot fathom what he is thinking or doing right now. He will be next, I predict. When you lose stellar partners like that, it can be a house of cards. He is well-connected and well-respected, too.

John Wiesman is busy running the Public Health Department for our entire state. Remember when I ran into he and Ted at dinner and he reassured me: they will find a good replacement for me. Don't worry. He was not replaced.

I was struck by how cavalier the CC Commissioners were during Board Time in discussing Marni Storey's leaving. It was if they were losing a low-level file clerk. That speaks volumes. She made the right choice for her.

I think Clark County is slipping rapidly downhill and is getting the reputation of a county to avoid if you are a doer and a mover looking to lead and make a difference in the lives of vulnerable citizens. Whether it recovers depends on who is hired to replace these leaders, if anyone is. Or who is elected in the next round.

We need to focus on the local if we hope to positively impact the universe. :)

Just read these bios of Marni Storey and Alan Melnick and tell me Clark County would be better with them gone:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.clark.wa.gov/public-health/about/leadership.html

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 7:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou I am very sorry for your loss.I do know how you feel.For several years I couldn't talk about it.Now I have come to accept it.I don't like it but I can't change it either.It has made me try to do my part to make life better for those around me.I hope it works.

timerick — September 18, 2013 at 7:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone take the tour of the new Columbian web version? What do you think?

I wonder if they are getting ready to install a paywall? I ordered a digital subscription to support their watchdog work on local government and assume that will get me through any paywall.

Who on here will be left to chat if you need to pay for access? Will this be a big echo chamber?

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 7:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


When I took the "tour" manthou it crashed my machine at the "buy photos" page. Twice.

I've an email into circulation asking if a paying dead tree subscriber will be required to buy the e-version.

Drift — September 18, 2013 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

I haven't checked the new one, but I added the electronic version to my subscription for 3 months about a year ago. It seemed like a waste so I dropped it. Hopefully having a subscription for the hard copy will allow website access without paying an additional fee. If not, then I'll drop everything.

roger — September 18, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick @ 7:40 am: Thank you. So glad we can count you among the many surviving parents who try, no matter how difficult and heartbreaking it is, to build a legacy out of the love you held for your child. It is good and noble way to honor them.

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger and Drift: I don't want to be rumor-mongering, so maybe a paywall is not coming soon. I think Lou B, however, did say, "Stay tuned" when someone on FB asked him about it.

I assume anyone with a paid subscription would have access to the online version. As much as I complain about inaccurate and unfair journalism, I do believe that The Columbian is doing a good job in holding our elected officials' feet to the fire. Larger newspapers have more reporters on staff and a greater risk of one or two very bad apples poisoning the product (hear that, Seattle Times?). I think the Columbian reporters are pretty good.

Did you notice that there is a separate link to BOCC in the new web version?

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I take the paper version also. There is something about reading paper that I like.It is the same with books.I just can't get used to reading these things online.Call me old fashioned I guess.

timerick — September 18, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Reading yesterday and today's comments so far I'd say someone (luvithere's words) needs to take a trip on their vespa and clear their head.

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 17, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.

Tim, life is too precious to waste any moment of time. I grieve for the loss of your daughter but in the same sense...her memory lives on in you and your family. It has given you the strength to pick up the pieces and move on...something I've had to do after losing my brother and father within 6 years of each other, compounded by losing my mother six months after an accident...a moment which changed my life and the life of my family forever.

manthou — September 17, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.

My mother once said to me after my brother passed...

There's no worse pain than losing a child before your time.

I concur. Your son lives on in your heart...even if it isn't the same thing as him standing by your side. As you said, it either strengthens you or destroys you. I think a bit of us is destroyed when we lose a loved one. We just learn to cope.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 17, 2013 at 11:32 p.m.

A "golden" moment???

Well...at least a meeting of the minds, wouldn't you say?

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I lost both my grandmothers in less than 2 yrs, my dad's mom, passed on my 23rd birthday, 2 days after, we found out my dad had terminal cancer. He passed 11 months later.

I think what pulled me out of the pain of my dad passing was 3 months after I became pregnant with my first child. Now yrs later I see so much of my dad in both my kids. The looks they give, to the way they move at times. My son has a very laid back personality, just don't push him past the boundaries just like my dad. I just watch, smile and know that a little part of my dad lives on through my kids.

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"A "golden" moment???"

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.

Je suis heureux qu'il était bon pour vous madame goldenoldie

nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrap!!

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

holycrapola — September 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Another simultaneous! This forum has turned into a cesspool of primordial postgasmic soup!

(something seems quite unnatural with the last one)

Please don't destroy us God!

nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 9:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.

Pourquoi je vous remercie, genre un!

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


..but-but..what about the clam chowder?

You might have incurred the wrath of the Forum Gods!

Oh heavenly father, stay thy wrath upon us I pray.

nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

I know just what you're saying. My youngest grandchild...she has the spunk and sassy attitude as well as sweetness that my mother possessed!!! Amazing...especially since she was never around her. Possibly, it's enough of our loved ones we carry in our hearts and in our expressions and it has rubbed off on our life blessings.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.

Okay now, Nails...You are On a Roll!!!

Oh...and I've got the oyster crackers to go with the clam chowder!

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It almost happened again!

Oh God!

I'm gettin' outta here!!

nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 18, 2013 at 9:39 a.m

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW GAG EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 18, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

says the one who uses an ipad.

___

Canning, cooking, and small gardens...my type of forum.Now add funny pics of vespas and you got it made. And now Nailingit is agreeing with golden? Uhh ohhh! That was a moment.

mxfun118 — September 18, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Could this be HC VESPA?

http://bikerscafeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/129-580x517.jpg

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Could this be...our own forum cat???

http://tinyurl.com/o4tbazo

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 10:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


No...seriously, nailingit. I have oyster crackers for some clam chowder...not some primordial postgasmic soup concoction. It's the cook in me, thinking about how the time of year for soup making is fast approaching. I'm wondering about Pat Timm's article about the Farmer's Almanac...could we have a colder than usual year??? I've heard La Nina is developing again.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: I know you are alleycat because he always used "censure" inappropriately.

I think you/he/y'all mean "censor."

[link text][1]

[1]: http://grammar.about.com/od/alightersideofwriting/a/CensorCensureGlossary.htm

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What's up with the website?

The Columbian has morphed into an entity called "Ellington CMS."

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Looks like it's transition time, manthou.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I received the following in response to my query:

"Thank you for your email. The Columbian website is available at anytime at no charge.

www.columbian.com

The E-edition is the complete Columbian paper online without inserted ads for $12. a month. You can have a 10 day free trial. As a subscriber you can receive the E-edition with your print delivery for an additional $4.00 a month.

Let us know how we can be of further assistance."

Drift — September 18, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holyc: Rail away. Freedom of speech and all. You don't offend me. I kind of regard you as our own "Mr. Carlin."

Remember The Bob Newhart Show?

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


More like the Rush Limbaugh of the forum ;))

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 11:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou did you ever have a record on the player back in the day that had a scratch in the grooves.It would skip and keep playing the same gibberish over and over.But back then we could just turn the machine off and the problem was solved.

timerick — September 18, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal



In the Columbian, there was an article about Starbucks requesting gun owners to leave their guns at home. Makes you wonder if this will cause their profits to plunge since so many find it necessary to pack a weapon these days.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Regarding the individual who shot up the naval base in DC...it was reported he heard voices in his head.

Well, maybe he DID if he received a(n) RFID chip at any time.

Ooh...conspiracy theory time!!!

Shame on me.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 2:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, Elisi, Tim, et.al.,

I'm thinking some sort of PeeWee Herman/Jim Carrey combination - which, now that I think further, describes Rowan Atkinson's Mr. Bean character. That's my vote for who HC Alleycat is like.

roger — September 18, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What got me is that Starbucks tried to ban smoking within 25 feet of any of their properties, but isn't willing to take the extra step to ban guns.

The legality of them trying to do either is beside the point - it's the idea that they apparently see smoking as a bigger evil. (And no I don't smoke. But I have been known to possess a few firearms, and trade on the military collectible gun market.)

roger — September 18, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, throw in Charlie Brown's teacher talking and you have it!

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden and Roger,

What I find funny about Starbucks and guns is..they have no idea if a woman is carrying since the gun would be in her purse or thigh holster..man or woman if they were wearing ankle holster.

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 18, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

Good point. From my side, I'd banned their products a long time ago...especially on their Macchiato's and Frappe's. Too many empty everythings added, lol.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 2:30 p.m.

I wonder if they're referring to those who open carry.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I still cannot figure why people have to carry their larger firearms in public. What message are they trying to convey to their neighbors and friends??? You can relay a message with a sidearm just as effectively...but that's just my opinion.

goldenoldie — September 18, 2013 at 2:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No Roger I am thinking more along the lines of Archie Bunker.I also found no humor in that show with the exception of Edith and Meat Head.

timerick — September 18, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, open or concealed? If the gun is strapped in a holster and not out of and being handled I see no reason to panic and ban them.

ELISI — September 18, 2013 at 2:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 18, 2013 at 2:23 p.m

Could it be because avoiding second hand smoke is really smart and even critical to those with pulmonary conditions?

I think we are surrounded by guns all day long; they're in briefcases, purses, shoulder holsters. To ban law-abiding coffee drinkers who has a license to carry would not only be a sorry business move, but near impossible to enforce. Compliance would and should be voluntary. I am a almost daily SB patron and the only guns I have ever seen are worn by police officers, tho I'd probably sit up and take notice if someone walked in with a rifle strapped on his back with a bandolier of bullets. Maybe it's a problem for Starbucks in other parts of the country and folks are made uncomfortable.

On another note: appreciated your quotes from Oacar Wilde. So much great stuff out there and always think I'll get back to it.

Now, off to listen to a little 'Imagine Dragons' or maybe 'Mumford & Sons' really, really LOUD... :)

jacjak — September 18, 2013 at 4:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Special session on September 30th in Oregon. PERS is on the menu, with rumors of more COLA cuts and taking legislators off the PERS dole. They don't seem to be going after the inactive Tier 1 members. Not a bad idea taking legislators off PERS, since they are in a conflict of interest in wanting to protect what they have legislatively.

No mention of CRC funding talk. Is the 30th too late? Maybe there is an extension in the works and we don't know yet.

manthou — September 18, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Most of the comments to the PERS reform articles claim the recommended reductions will get thrown out in a court review. I don't know too much, other than the state says they can't afford what's coming due, and that Gov Kitz said what was proposed during the regular session just pushed the problem back a couple of years. The only real proposal on how to raise money that I saw was a ten cent tax on cigarettes.

As for the CRC, until Kitz gets the Senate Majority pres on board, nothing will happen. And last I read he's thinking the same as Ted Wheeler; maybe it could be done, but is it wise? Economic indicators just about all point to the prime rate rising more than the 1% over the next couple of years that will put their estimates in the red.

I'm thinking there's probably a major fight going on behind the scenes to keep supporters from the regular session from bailing. Nigel over at WW just put out an article debunking the idea that ODOT can plan better - seems they went way over cost and behind schedule on a couple of recent projects, and have never done something remotely close to the size of this one. The biking lobby (sounds like a joke, but not in Oregon!) has turned against the project - They don't like that it will probably take funds from projects they want, and they hate the idea that they'll be under the traffic level and have to deal with the noise. And all the neighborhood associations and some other groups are recognizing that the morning congestion will move south into the heart of town, and the afternoon congestion will mainly clear up near the bridge - nothing being done helps attain their goal to reduce the traffic sitting on the freeway and polluting in their areas.

roger — September 18, 2013 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak,

Correct, of course. Personally, I think that very few are actually susceptible to anything negative from second hand smoke in an open, well ventilated area (like parks). However, I can also accept that some people prefer not to get blasted by a crowd of smokers sitting upwind from them. I suppose Starbucks is also a little wiser with making social statements of this nature - they got slammed pretty hard on the smoking issue, and had to change their "policy" to covering the outdoor seating areas on their leased property "if the law allows it."

roger — September 18, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi,

An open carry holstered pistol scares too many people. That practice used to be legal and almost common in Phoenix - Eventually too many East Coasters got there and had the law changed banning this, due to wanting to get away from the Wild West mentality. One of our local supermarket had signs at the entrances saying to check your pistols when entering. Motorcyclists wore them for protection; a driver who tried to crowd a rider would back off once a hand rested on the hip by the pistol for a moment. And depending on where I was driving, my pistol just might be sitting on my thigh for some of the nosier bad boys to see. That was in the '70s; when I returned in '89 everything had changed. Didn't take me long to get my first concealed carry permit.

roger — September 18, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I open carried down in Yuma during the early 80's. Heck, I got a speeding ticket while a revolver hung from my hip. The trooper didn't bat an eye, just gave me the citation.

When entering the bar the doorman would have you clear the weapon and put the cartridges and/or magazine in your pocket. You'd walk in, gun in hand, and give it to the beertender at the bar. They'd put it in a drawer.

When leaving you'd have to describe the gun to the beertender because there'd be more than one or two in there.

But then, those were the days a good many of the pickup trucks in the high school parking lot had a rifle or shotgun in the window rack. Today I'd bet a darned pocket knife would cause a fuss.

Drift — September 19, 2013 at 6:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone watch the program on the Rise of the Machines last night. According to some of the brainier people at MIT we should see cars driving by themselves in about ten years. It also pointed out that this would almost eliminate vehicle accidents.

As I watched the program I wondered if these smart computers crashed what would happen. I noticed a big red button for emergency stops on the dashboard. If you are drinking your coffee and texting or talking on your phone you couldn't possible stop it in time.

To me it might work but the question did arise about a computer driven vehicle hitting a child. Or worse.

It was a computer glitch that caused a blackout in New York City about ten years ago. It will happen again and what happens then? Will people demand that they take control back from the machines?

As we go forward at an increasingly faster pace to automate our world around us how much human interface are we going to lose? I believe that the loss would be detrimental to the human race. What fun is life if you can't relate to people???

JohnCasey — September 19, 2013 at 6:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


John Casey,

Being ruled by computers (or robots) has been a fear played on in the SciFi world since the early days of the technology. I'm not sure about ruled, but we're already where our behavior is controlled by them. For example, we discuss issues here, rather than face to face. I'm inclined to agree that we lose something by doing so. As for taking control back - we won't because we won't be able to. Driving a car is a good example. If you've never learned how to drive, would you want to?

roger — September 19, 2013 at 6:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The article about Jaime wanting to defund the ACA has a comment by (Walter Johnson??) --

"The way the law is written, the federal government could shut down for weeks and it wouldn't have any impact on ObamaCare which is an entitlement as is Social Security...."

I'm wondering if this is true. Social Security is collected separately, and goes to that fund. We also have a Medicare deduction, but none for the health care plan. So, how does the plan survive without being budgeted?

I've already stated why I think people will refuse to participate, and instead opt to pay the penalty. But I think this issue of funding could in fact kill the plan, for one very important reason. The way written, those receiving a subsidy on their costs can opt to have it paid directly to the insurance company on a monthly basis, thereby reducing the amount coming from the paycheck. If there's no money to do this, then with the cost of the plans, many won't participate because they won't be able to afford to.

roger — September 19, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Phil Stanford was my favorite local journalist/columnist. He hooked me when he was writing for The Oregonian and then The Portland Tribune. If I only had time to read one thing in the mornings, it was always Stanford who got my time.

He dropped out of sight and started writing books about local crimes. The guy was the epitome of the old school muckraking journalist who knew how to dig deep, put in long hours, shot from the hip, and ended his days in smoky bars, surrounded by local characters. A little like my Chicago fave, Mike Royko. Both knew how to write to capture an audience.

Stanford wrote much about the murder of Oregon prison's director, Michael Franke, in 1989. Many people believed it was an inside hit job because Franke was getting ready to expose widespread government corruption (so he was whacked for his trouble). That story in itself is worth a review. Speaking of characters.....

Imagine my thrill this morning to recognize Phil Stanford's face on a WW story. He has written another book, this time about Watergate. The real reason for the break-in? The Repubs were looking for sex scandal dirt. Seems credible to me:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-21163-hotseat_phil_stanford.html

manthou — September 19, 2013 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift — September 19, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — September 19, 2013 at 6:43 a.m.

A part of me is surprised you buy into the silliness of dismantling the ACA. It's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. The Affordable Care Act is indeed the law of the land, to include the Supreme Court's stamp of approval.

Repeat this 43 times. (the last time to cover the next attempt to repeal)

This has ALL been a money raising scam on the right from the get go. The one commonality the right has nowadays is the defunding of ObamaCare, and undoubtedly their biggest fundraising item.

You folks ought to be raising hell with the likes of JHB, for taking up so much of our taxpayer $$$ in this ridiculous ongoing effort.

Not to mention the irony of it all. The conservative ungodliness of ObamaCare is the personal mandate, a Republican idea....

The wall is starting to cave in on these shysters.

(note to all:don't give out your credit card number to strangers;)

///Ted Cruz Infuriates House GOP By Conceding Defeat On Obamacare Repeal///

House Republicans are fuming at Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) for conceding that the party's efforts to repeal Obamacare aren't going anywhere in the Senate -- and leaving the House to keep fighting over it anyway.

Cruz, a tea party favorite, is one of the most vocal proponents of defunding the Affordable Care Act, President Barack Obama's health care reform law. He's spent months championing the cause. But on Wednesday, as House Republican leaders unveiled their latest plan for sinking Obamacare -- tying a measure to defund the law to a must-pass resolution that keeps the government running -- Cruz thanked House Republicans for their fight, and said they're on their own.

..

Aides to top Republicans in the House, where GOP leadership has already been struggling to keep the party together on the measure, were beside themselves. And once granted anonymity, they didn't mince their words.
"We haven't even taken up the bill and Ted Cruz is admitting defeat?" fumed one senior GOP aide. "Some people came here to govern and make things better for their constituents. Ted Cruz came here to throw bombs and fundraise off of attacks on fellow Republicans. He's a joke, plain and simple."
Another aide said Cruz's comment "exposes how [Senate conservatives] have deliberately misled their constituents and the grassroots for eight weeks. This isn't leadership, it's hypocrisy."

..

To be sure, Cruz is correct that the Democratic-led Senate doesn't have the votes to repeal Obamacare, and of course the president would never sign off on such an effort. But conservatives keep pushing votes on the issue because it's popular with their base. Cruz's statement on Wednesday was simply a tactical error: He admitted what his colleagues won't.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/ted-cruz-obamacare-house-republicans_n_3950901.html

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///The House's Un-American Activities///

The last time the Republicans threatened to shut down the government they insisted we were in a "fiscal emergency," which they erroneously claimed had been brought on by Federal deficits. Republicans have never really been concerned about government debt, which is why it skyrocketed under Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. But deficits can be a useful rhetorical gambit for politicians pushing tax breaks for the wealthy.

The GOP's shutdown blackmail was un-Constitutional the last time they tried it, and it's un-Constitutional now. The nation is now discovering what many people suspected all along: If you give in to the demands of blackmailers, they'll just keep asking for more and more.

Republicans certainly got what they were demanding the last time around. The deficit's plunging at a faster rate than at any time since the massive demobilization which followed World War II, and is projected to be slightly more than half of what it was in 2009. That's a Pyrrhic victory no politician should celebrate, since it has led to both higher unemployment and a lower GDP.

This year Republicans aren't even pretending to tie their shutdown threats to government spending. Instead they're holding the government hostage over health care policy. Once you get beyond the rhetoric, that's what "Obamacare" is: health care policy.

Health policy is now the issue over which Republicans are prepared to violate a sworn oath - and, depending on your personal beliefs, perhaps to endanger their immortal souls.

..

We don't know yet how this latest GOP gambit will play out. The extremists who run the Republican Party may or may not win Friday's vote. Or they may concede on the continuing resolution, only to defer the hostage-taking to the upcoming debt-ceiling fight. Whatever happens, let's hope the Democrats keep refusing to negotiate. The Constitution demands no less of them.

The Republicans lost. They lost the healthcare debate, which is why the law was passed. They lost two out of three branches of government in the 2012 election.(They lost the House too, by 1.4 million votes, but gerrymandering kept them in power.) They've lost politically, and they've lost constitutionally. They must not be allowed to trample on our system of government, to win by cheating what they lost under our system of government.

Read more @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/the-houses-un-american-ac_b_3951994.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


///The GOP Is Threatening Murder-Suicide With New Shutdown Warnings///

Ornstein and Mann, both widely respected as straight shooters, describe themselves as moderates and have had long careers working with both parties. In an interview this week, they expressed exasperation with the GOP’s behavior in the debt-limit and budget negotiations. Ornstein lamented that the title of the book today would be It’s Even Worse Than It Was.

Said Ornstein: “The bizarreness of this monomaniacal focus on Obamacare, given that it is fundamentally a Republican program from the 1990s mixed in with Romneycare,” says it all. “Obamacare relies on the private sector; there is no public option. That you are willing to bring the country to its knees to sabotage it … just shows this is a party that has gone off the rails.”

Just how damaging have the congressional Republicans been to the country? “If you look at what could have happened in a reasonable political system, with give and take … we would have been on a more robust path to growth,” said Ornstein. “We’ve gone from one credit agency downgrading us to a far greater likelihood that we will default. If sequester continues … it is a cancer eating away at national parks, food safety, basic research … it’s a terrible situation. No matter how much [Republicans] talk about how it was Obama’s idea … the whole idea was to create such awful consequences that no sane person would accept it. But these aren’t sane people.”

Read more @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/19/the-gop-is-threatening-murder-suicide-with-new-shutdown-warnings.html

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

On the subject of the ACA. If you had a choice to use one of the exchanges in our state would you be paying more or less or about the same for your healthcare? If you din't use one of the exchange options but stayed with your current provider would you be paying less, about the same or more?? Healthcare costs are not going down nor will they. The ACA needs to be funded by at least 80% of the uninsured to make it viable, otherwise everyone else will see increases in their own healthcare costs to fund the ACA.. As I've said many times here, our state will be lucky to see a 20% increase in new applicants...The plan won't pencil out without increased premiums and taxes.. That is really the whole crux of the Republican angst about the ACA.. I'm in the business. You should check out the WA state Ins Comissioners website http://www.insurance.wa.gov/health-rates/Search.aspx

Approved Insurance companies already looking for rate inscreases and by 2016 or 2017 our rates will be at least 25% more than they are today... Everyone should read more into the Republican backed House plan before making assertions..

vanwadreamer — September 19, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer: I can answer your question as I have done the research for my family. The WA Healthcare exchange options for me alone came to about $900 a month. I do not qualify for any reductions. If I stay with my PERS retirement plan (Moda Health), I have better coverage options for the same price.

So I am not moving over right now.

My son is continuing his COBRA rather than moving over to an insurance exchange option for the same reason. When COBRA runs out in 18 months, he will reconsider. COBRA is about $200 more a month, however, in his case.

The way I look at the ACA: it is better than nothing. It isn't perfect, but it is better than no options.

manthou — September 19, 2013 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HC,
I have to agree with your first statement.. Take care of yourself and you most likely will live healthier and longer.. Exercise daily is a good recommendation also. 30 minutes of brisk walking or riding a bike or whatever you like to do... Get out and enjoy our beautiful area... I also agree paying over a thousand bucks a month is ridiculous... Because in reality were paying for those that are not paying their bills. So many people have a hand out but are not wanting to work for it... But here is the rub!
You break your leg, you have appendicitis. You need an operation. These costs alone most people can't afford to cover. And the 40 Million without healthcare in the US will continue to do what they've always done. Use the system and not pay..
Manthou- Good points. But the ACA is not better than nothing.. Really other than Pre Existing allowance as the biggie, the pres could have just made that law... The cost is the biggie.. My daughter pays $165 for her health INS at age 23... 80/20 $35 co pays.. I think if the young people want health care $ 135 to $200 month if you have a job is affordable.. But she is on a group plan through work now and off the individual plan and pays $88 month for slightly better coverage. Like her the youth of today has priorities and sadly not always is healthcare is a priority.. Having fun, paying absurd money for cell phones, partying, seems to be more in line with their priorities.. I know... The ACA is simply not affordable to the people who will be paying the bills. There lies the problem... That is what needs to be fixed. And yes I would like to see all elected officials on the same plans offered to us.

vanwadreamer — September 19, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- A good concise article worth your time.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/opinion/carroll-obamacare-poll/

It's no wonder there is so much confusion and misinformation. The right has made destroying this President's landmark achievement a #1 priority for years. A quip from said article..

"Originally, Obamacare was expected to come with more than half a billion dollars to be spent on outreach and education efforts about the exchanges. This money was supposed to be used to help people understand how Obamacare was supposed to work for everyone. But the Republican-led House of Representatives cut the whole implementation budget."

Where is a better plan? (except for single payer) Healthcare costs were projected to take up 40% of our GDP by 2018 before ACA.

Where is the better plan from the right? (repeat 3X:)

I disagree with "The plan won't pencil out without increased premiums and taxes.. That is really the whole crux of the Republican angst about the ACA.."

Seriously. When has the right had a problem with corporate raising healthcare costs and government placing said burden on the middle class taxpayer.

This is about taking down Obama. It always has been. Just ask Mitch. If RW leadership truly believed this was a bad thing, they would cheer it on, knowing it would nail them the White House in 2016. But they know it pencils out to be a positive.

After all, it was their idea...

In closing, my posts had little to do with the merits of ACA, but the ridiculous promises right wing leaders have made to their constituents to repeal or defund it. Unless you folks on the right take your leaders to task for lying and scamming you, they'll just keep doing it and doing it. The framework for the ACA was decided in 2008, and was sealed, not only with another strong victory in 2012, but by our very own Supreme Court.

The right can stammer, pout & whine all day long about the dreaded "ObamaCare". But so far, most, if not all criticisms are speculative at best.

vanwa-If it's as bad as you think, take heart! You folks on the right will have no problem taking the White House in 16'. Right? ;)

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Part of the problem. Fortunately most college kids are too smart for this. I hope.

The Koch Bros ride again!

///Anti-Obamacare Ads, Beer Coozies Pitched To College Students Get Them To 'Opt Out'///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/anti-obamacare-ad-colleges_n_3954819.html

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


These Republicans, what a great group of guys...

///GOP Obamacare Defunding Bill Would Gut Children's Health Insurance Program///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/gop-defund-chip_n_3955411.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just a great group of guys...

///House Republicans pushing for major food stamp cuts///

The major cuts were designed to satisfy House conservatives who rejected more moderate reductions to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) earlier this year, but with millions of Americans still struggling to recover from the recession, Democrats are balking at the GOP bill.

"What the House Republicans are saying is this: get a good paying job or your family will just have to go hungry," Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., chairwoman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, said on the Senate floor Wednesday. "But there aren't enough good paying jobs, as you can see... The Republican approach is like saying we're tired of spending so much on wildfires, so we'll just cut the budget of the fire service. That isn't going to work."

Stabenow said the House bill -- called the Nutrition Reform and Work Opportunity Act -- "will never see the light of day in the Senate."

Even if it did pass in the Democratic-led Senate, President Obama has promised to veto the legislation. "These cuts would affect a broad array of Americans who are struggling to make ends meet, including working families with children, senior citizens, veterans, and adults who are still looking for work," the White House said in a statement on the bill.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57603571/house-republicans-pushing-for-major-food-stamp-cuts/

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail

That was a good article. I pretty much agree with the findings. What does the survey say. 30% of the people are confused. And what 30% of the people would vote for whatever the Pres puts in front of them Hoping that it will benefit them. The facts of the matter is If you looked at the demogarhics of the survey I think you would find those confused minorities, less educated , and mostly democtraic leaning.. The facts of the matter clear.. Go to the echange and get your price. See what the cost is going to be if the government can't sign up at least 80% of the uninsured. What it means is the ACA is not "Affordable" to those paying the bills. We'll continue on this out of control spiriling deficit..

As for Debbie Stabenow, what she and many more and lie you are just saying this kind of stuff to scare the low income folks... She is from Michigan, they ahve the worst economy of any state, why?? She is part of that problem, not the republicans. Maybe she should focus on her State house and get it reformed before she slams the national scene.

*"These cuts would affect a broad array of Americans who are struggling to make ends meet, including working families with children, senior citizens, veterans, and adults who are still looking for work," the White House said in a statement on the bill*

This again is political rhetoric and you mentioned most of the heart tugging folks.. Broad aray is like using an atom bomb when really a phone call would have worked. If you look at just the unemployed in our county what sticks out??? Age, children, Middle Class jobs, Seniors.. 70% of americans have no or little savings that are retiring now. Who's fault is that??? Not mine, maybe yours but I employ 3 over 55 and no one under 36 out of 7 employees. You probably think the $15 hr min wage is a good idea yet.. Come run a business and you'll probably have a different view, but again maybe not.

vanwadreamer — September 19, 2013 at 1:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"This again is political rhetoric and you mentioned most of the heart tugging folks.. "

Just the facts. They're debating it in the Senate now. If you do indeed employ folk, I wonder if your heart will tug a bit, when and if you lay them off, and they can't get food assistance for their families.

Man. Of all things.

I'm continually amazed at what Republicans put on their wish lists....

And when it's all said and done.....

""Where is a better plan? (except for single payer) Healthcare costs were projected to take up 40% of our GDP by 2018 before ACA.

Where is the better plan from the right?""

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

My point this morning was that most of the people who will qualify for a subsidy will need to take the option where the money is paid directly to the insurance company every month. Then they just pay the balance. This money is not earmarked anywhere - It isn't the same as Social Security or Medicare, which are funded entitlements (through payroll deduction). It will have to be budgeted.

This isn't going to be cheap; it could easily run into hundreds of billions per year. (A supposition based on seeing more and more companies looking at electing to cancel their own health care plan and just paying a modest stipend to help cover the cost of buying one on the exchange. Also, a single person making about $40K and a family of four making over $80K per year will get something. The average household income in Clark County is about $55K - That's a whole lot of people who'll get help.)

Meanwhile, our government can't reach any sort of agreement. The Repubs want deficit reduction without increasing taxes, and the Dems don't believe deficits matter and want to continue funding programs.

The uninsured are supposed to find coverage starting next month. Where is the money coming from to pay the subsidies? Maybe the insurance companies will take IOUs until the government can find the money?

roger — September 19, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There is only one plan that will keep health care costs from skyrocketing - nationalize the insurance industry to a "Medicare for all" plan. And that should include canning the ability to buy a cadillac plan - everyone gets the same care. It works for Canada and many European countries, and it could work here if we remove the incentive to try to get as much profit as possible.

It comes down to reaching an understanding of just what health care is. If it's a commodity, then leave it alone and quit trying to improve things. Some will have and some won't.

But if we're going to consider it a basic right, then get the bloodsuckers out of the picture.

roger — September 19, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The comment I thought worth repeating on the article about Jamie's goal of defunding ACA is by a guy name Swill Abrew (is that a REAL name???)

"If the GOP really thought Obamacare was a bad idea they would allow it to be implemented so it could fail & ensure them more wins in upcoming elections. They know that's not the case & are desperately trying to stop it before the truth comes out."

jacjak — September 19, 2013 at 2:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Something else I haven't seen.

If I don't buy health care, I get fined $400 or up to 1% of my gross income. I'm like manthou noted earlier; a decent plan would run me about $1000 per month. Next year the fine doubles to 2%, and then goes up by .5% increases each year. I'll be on Medicare long before the penalty even comes close to making buying even a low end bronze plan the better choice.

So I go to a doctor and get seen, then don't pay the bill. Or go to the hospital emergency room (and also throw the bills away). And there are free treatment clinics out there, if I'm going to worry about my credit rating.

How do they force compliance?

roger — September 19, 2013 at 3:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nice write up by Cami Joner on the historic Orchards Feed Meal and it's proprietor, Mr. Loren Carlson.

How convenient it is for the folks of Orchards and the surrounding area to have such a feed store for backyard poultry as well as the larger breeds like horses and cattle, dogs, goats, cats and wild critters and more...AND combining with Cascade Greenhouse (a great touch), brings it all together for the folks who have the ambition and the space for what they have to offer at Orchards Feed. I'll be looking forward to the preserved historic mill reopening. It'll be interesting to see what they've done to the inside.

Congrats to Mr. Carlson for preserving history AND making necessary improvements to keep up with the times!!! I wish you all the best!

goldenoldie — September 19, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"""if her hubby loses her job"""
???

"""At her age and her hubby, they are doomed."""
What makes you so sure? You don't know our situation.

"""They need Obamacare like there is no tomorrow."""
Well, no we don't. We've done our homework.

"""Employers will screw you one way or the other."""
Like they haven't already???

goldenoldie — September 19, 2013 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"If you meet the healthy threshold you get a significant reduction on health rates bordering zero. If you have irresponsible health behaviors that cause disease, you pay through the nose or you die."

Well, I could observe that it appears HC the Cat has been reading Ayn Rand, but....

This sounds a whole lot more like the current system than anything else. One of the complaints was that people with higher health care costs would find their rates raised to the point they could no longer afford insurance. The ACA eliminated that (by allowing companies to raise rates to meet some sort of average cost of care).

Goldie and Elisi have been talking for a long time about eating properly and living a healthy lifestyle. Why attack the ones who are living responsibly?

roger — September 19, 2013 at 6:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger, even if one has always lived a healthy lifestyle, ate properly doesn't mean they will always be the picture of health.

I have asthma, high blood pressure, nothing I do/did to cause either. Family history of both and diabetes.

This past January I spent a week in the hospital, 4 days was in ICU. What sent me there was pneumonia and a blood clot in my lungs.
I have had pneumonia so many times that now I have scars on my lung that require me to use oxygen to keep my oxygen level up. Now again I say, nothing I do/did caused this.

I just shake my head when I hear or read the kind of crap the cat spews. Does he not understand that not all disease are self inflicted? I guess not,..reminds me of a one cell amoeba.

ELISI — September 19, 2013 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It comes down to reaching an understanding of just what health care is. If it's a commodity, then leave it alone and quit trying to improve things. Some will have and some won't. -- roger — September 19, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. (And also your idea of canning the ability of buying a cadillac plan so everyone gets the same care, and your bloodsucker idea)

When Hillary was in charge of that health care task force, after Bill became the President, the story was that her idea was for a single payer system; but the kicker was that no one should be able to spend their own money on their their own health care. I never knew if that was true, or just an unwarranted accusation by her detractors . If true, it is truly disgusting.

I’ve asked the question before about what the purpose of government is. With little response. If the purpose of government is to take care of people, then certainly, providing food, clothing and shelter are even more basic than health care. If profit is taken out of health care, then profit should also be taken out of other even more basic “rights”. Considering all of those basic rights, and all of the supporting industry, that just about covers everything.

kn_dalai — September 19, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Red Herring.

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Red Herring. -- nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 9:08 p.m.

I disagree. Explain to everyone why my observations are phony. Here’s your big chance to actually showcase your knowledge, experience and thinking abilities, rather than making smart ass comments and walking away.

kn_dalai — September 19, 2013 at 9:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 19, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.

You've been on a pretty good behavior run as of late. I'm always cheering for you. :)

"Here’s your big chance to actually showcase your knowledge, experience and thinking abilities"

The pressure!

You are almost theatrical tonight. I've wondered where you've been. Hope all is well.

It's good to first understand what a red herring is.

Fair enough to say, as the Wiki fly's, 'Red herring is an idiom that refers to a logical fallacy that misleads or detracts from the actual issue.'

Your bringing up essentials such as food and clothing and lumping them in with this dialogue is silly, and in fact, a Red Herring.

For starters, food and clothing aren't driving our National debt. Which is the premise for this topic.

Silly stuff, and typical ta boot! :))

Then you come off with one of your familiar "I never knew if that was true, or just an unwarranted accusation" goodies. (in this case, you could combine phony & fallacy! Congrats!)

Just throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks.

"When Hillary was in charge of that health care task force, after Bill became the President, the story was that her idea was for a single payer system; but the kicker was that no one should be able to spend their own money on their their own health care. I never knew if that was true, or just an unwarranted accusation by her detractors . If true, it is truly disgusting."

Gee...

"When Nancy was in charge of that just say no to drugs task force, after Ronnie became President, the story was that her idea to get rid of drugs was to party down with a dozen or so Secret Service agents, get high and orgy all night; but the kicker was that no one should be able spend money on outside hookers, they had to be White House staff. I never knew if that was true, or just an unwarranted accusation by her detractors. If true, it is truly disgusting."

And to think. At times you school others about journalistic ethics.........

nailingit — September 19, 2013 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually, kn_dalai's question is at the root of all the controversy - Just what is the proper role of government?

We've got another battle going on in Congress right now, with the food stamp issue. It seems the numbers using them have grown tremendously, which could be expected given the numbers out of work. Now the House Repubs want restrictions in place, to include booting able bodied adults with no dependents and requiring some sort of work. As the Dems note, what we currently have kept a whole lot of people alive and off the streets. And the position the makes the most sense (to me) appears to have dropped from the conversation. As the WalMart cashier who posts to the article in The Columbian today notes, restrict what the ebt can buy to basics and we'll probably eliminate a lot of the abuses of the system.

roger — September 20, 2013 at 5:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, Phil Stanford and Mike Royko were two of my favorites back in the day. I read the book by Stanford and he made a very compelling case. If I remember right the jist of it was they have the wrong guy behind bars and Franke's brother agreed.

On another note I'm taking bets that Pope will not stay in office much longer. He's well on the way to thoroughly pissing off the rest of the Vatican. If I were him I'd be hiring food tasters.

Concerning the judge that has a gig as a comedian. With all the heat judges get these days they chose to deny him instead of going after the real idiots on the bench. How sad. The BAR can't seem to fix the problems with other judges who use their power to hurt people, but they go after someone who makes jokes. He doesn't even joke about law. How sad.

I loved the last line of the article. "Such humor by a sitting judge demeans the office, the court ruled." Are you kidding me?

JohnCasey — September 20, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


My “bad behavior”, nail, is in the mind of Leftests who think anyone who doesn’t agree with their social welfare state hive mentality, is out of line.

The premise of this discussion is NOT, the national debt, as you have posited. The problem being discussed is everyone receiving health care even at the expense of others. Government debt over the welfare state, is but one aspect. Your wordsmithing is not going to change the basic question of the propriety of government taking care of people . One thing leads to another, and it should be a foregone conclusion that when government pays: government will control. Which is another aspect and anathema to personal liberty. Those with a hive mentality, apparently see nothing wrong with this.

The question still remains as to whether government should provide all of the essentials for maintaining one’s life; health care, SOMETIMES, being only one of those essentials, which of course, you have skirted by positing that this is not a valid question.

kn_dalai — September 20, 2013 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal



Government in this country is (or should be) about striking that balance between the Capitalist "enjoying the fruits of one's labors" and the Communist "to each according to need."

Capitalism tends to be taken to the extreme - those at the top of the food chain want more, and have two options to achieve this. They can control the marketplace. This works for a while, but push back from competitors eventually stops this approach. (Microsoft as an example.) The other is to reduce operational costs. Because supplies are provided by other businesses, labor costs end up being the easiest target. Vanderbilt and Carnegie did this through hiring immigrants at rock bottom wages, until the unions arose and fought back. The Knights, Waltons, and others of today accomplish this by going to Third World countries and paying their prevailing wage plus a few pennies.

We elect people to try to control this, and end up with programs that redistribute wealth. These are (to me) usually improperly labeled as Socialist - To me they're Communist. Welfare, unemployment compensation, food stamps, etc, all take from someone and give to someone else.

There are those who identify the solution as a need to control the excesses of capitalism, and want to impose government controls on the corporations. The money the corporations throws at the legislators keeps this in check; greed rules the day.

So we get to the happy compromise. Redistribute the wealth earned by the successful workers to others.

Which is why I oppose having commuters tolled to put in a light rail bridge. And it's why I don't like the ACA. Our government has claimed transportation projects are one of their fundamental responsibilities, under the umbrella of Commerce. They tax me for this twice already, through income taxes and gas taxes. That's enough; I shouldn't have to pay tolls. As for the ACA, if the government wants to claim access to quality health care is a right that they can control, then they better quit playing with Corporate America and come up with a system that works. Once again, we pay taxes to operate our government. The ACA is one more example of the communistic robbing Peter to pay Paul.

roger — September 20, 2013 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey: So glad to know you appreciate those great journalists. I am so in awe of Stanford and Royko's writing skills. Their unique voices come through loud and clear, which is a good hook for me. I won't learn something from your opinion, if you don't make me want to stick around beyond the first sentence.

Speaking of journalists, congratulations to The Columbian's six who earned a 2013 Blethen Award. Well-done.
_______________

Clark County Board time Wednesday: Ugh. Over three hours this time. Madore digging his heels in and forcing Stewart and Mielke to beg for his cooperation. Benton raising his phlegmy voice at Stewart over Benton's assertions that Kevin Gray dropped the ball on something. Let's attack the "old guy" so I look better tactic? The amount of times all three talk at once, trying to dominate one another, is tiring.

Freeholders: Interesting questions posed by the Columbian. Even better: the answers provided. I have decided who my favorites in my District 3 are for four of the five.

manthou — September 20, 2013 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


knd-The reason for making changes in healthcare in the first place was because current growth was not sustainable. roger played politician and tried to pull your feet from the fire.

Proper role of government, which you harp about as we all do, was not the driving factor/motivation in making health care changes.

You lumping clothing, food etc. in the same basket (when discussing the driving costs of health care and solutions) was indeed, by definition, a Red Herring.

sheesh....

:)

roger- Let knd stand on his own once in awhile.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It’s often hard to know if you’re serious or just playing games. “Access to healthcare” is the mantra. The proper role of government is at the heart of it, and if providing healthcare for citizens is proper for government, then it follows that government providing food, shelter and clothing is also a legitmate question.

As far as roger goes, while I appreciate his input, he hardly comes to my rescue. Just another gibberish cheap shot by you nail.

kn_dalai — September 20, 2013 at 7:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Red October.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 7:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*On the other hand, don't blame your health condition on inherited stuff. Assume the responsibility and pay your own bills. For that, I act as a merciless republican in this comment.*

Typical response from a ignoramus..

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 7:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What has been recently noted as the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse could be also recognized as the Starvation Apocalypse.

For far too long, Food Stamp recipients have relied on our government to help them in times of need. Abuse of the system could very well be a factor in the decision to cut back on funding, but it doesn't help that jobs and the economy tanked. I believe charitable organizations are going to continue to struggle to keep the food banks, meals on wheels and food kitchens stocked and it's going to be worse than it has ever been.

It's past the time to get back to the basics. Better late than never.

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"There is only one plan that will keep health care costs from skyrocketing - nationalize the insurance industry to a "Medicare for all" plan. And that should include canning the ability to buy a cadillac plan - everyone gets the same care. It works for Canada and many European countries, and it could work here if we remove the incentive to try to get as much profit as possible."

roger — September 19, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.

I agree.

I was watching a crow fly down my street this morning, dropping a nut to crack. It took the crow 3 times to achieve success.

It reminded me of the current health care debate.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It would have been more noble and humble if you'd have read what I said..never did I say I HAD diabetes, I said it is IN my family's medical history.

AND, just who are YOU to say that I don't have proper nutrition and exercise? You sir DO NOT live in my house, nor do you pay my bills, you do not even know me. To make such ASSumption is mind boggling.
But, what does one expect from a ignoramus.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hardly, sitting here LMAO at you.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A while back, I mentioned the $5 dinner for a family of four. You CAN live on less! Some thought it was impossible, but here's a sample.

One large can, White Chicken Meat-drained ($2.48), 6 mushrooms sliced thinly(50 cents~), 2 cloves garlic (33 cents for entire bulb of garlic) 1/2 onion chopped(30 cents~), 1/2 stalk celery sliced and chopped(25 cents), 1/2 bell pepper chopped(79 cents), 3 tbsp butter or margarine (fraction of cost of entire container...say, 15 cents at most), 1 tbsp flour, 1/2 cup water. 1 cup rice (25 cents) salt, pepper to taste, 2 cups water.

Bring to boil 2 cups water with dash salt and 1 tablespoon butter or margarine. Add rice and simmer.

In frying pan, saute garlic and onions in 2 tablespoons butter. Do not burn. (If too dry, you can add a bit of cooking oil). Add celery, pepper and mushrooms and cook till done. Add chicken and mix well with veggies. Then, add Flour then 1/2 cup water and stir well. Cover and reduce heat to lowest setting for one minute. Add salt and pepper to taste.

Serve on top of rice or blend the two together.

Total up front cost of food: $5.05. You can save by using what you have grown in the garden (for example, replanting garlic every year is free. Also, buying flour and rice in bulk is a big saver. Peppers can easily be grown in the garden and frozen for winter use, too.).

I have added baby spinach to this at the same time as the chicken...even sprinkled it with a bit of Parmesan cheese, making the dinner closer to $6. Instead of bell peppers, you can use a jalapeno for a zippier taste (more affordable).

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I personally don't know of anyone who uses this program. I do understand there are many less fortunate people who rely on this program, many times through no fault of their own.

We're talking basics for survival, a little food for Christ's sake. At what, a few bucks a day per person? Of all the things to be in favor of.....

///Veterans Hurt by Proposed Food Stamp Cuts///

According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, SNAP benefits are already scheduled to go down.  Boosted until November 1, 2013, by the 2009 Recovery Act, families of three will lose $29 a month.  That may not seem like very much, but the daily per person per meal benefit will be less than $1.40 once that reduction is in place.

 
In June, Democrats derailed a $1-billion per year cut to food stamps ensconced in the $1-trillion Farm Bill, but the House GOP is doubling down, trying to cut $20-billion over five years from an upcoming bill.  The Senate passed a bill cutting $400 million a year from the SNAP program, but House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas (R-OK) said that the difference between the House and the Senate was so “huge and dramatic” that the White House may have to intervene.

 
Many disabled veterans also rely on food stamps.  Nationally, 16 percent of all food stamp recipients are disabled, but disabled veterans may have an easier time qualifying for the additional assistance because they have more lenient work search requirements.

 
Disabled veterans with total disability as determined by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) who is permanently housebound and in need of regular attendance automatically qualifies for food stamp benefits, although they do have to apply through the appropriate agency.

 
- See more at: http://www.veteranjournal.com/veterans-hurt-by-proposed-food-stamp-cuts/#sthash.vGZcBwZi.dpuf

///SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities///

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx#

///Food (Stamps) for Thought///

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358914/food-stamps-thought-henry-olsen

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"""You will need to guard your stash as well GoldenOldie."""
holycrapola — September 20, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.

WHAT stash???

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.

You ought to take the time out to volunteer at Portland Rescue Mission.

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 9 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 9 a.m.

When all else fails...

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...not to mention the Herring in this place, although plentiful, leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

The subject is Congress cutting funds for SNAP.

Goldenoldie says...

"You ought to take the time out to volunteer at Portland Rescue Mission."

'Red herring is an idiom that refers to a logical fallacy that misleads or detracts from the actual issue.'

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


About the ongoing subjects/debates of food-stamps, healthcare, farm bill, government policy, etc...

There's a excellent article in the October issue of Harper's Magazine in the Anti-Economist section titled "Problem Number One" by Jeff Madrick. http://harpers.org/archive/2013/10/problem-number-one/

Sorry, Harper's is only available to subscribers, but worth tracking this down at the library or somewhere if interested in their vast consequences to America's future.

jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The days of "compassionate conservatism" seem to be coming to an end.

///Mindlessly Gutting Food Stamps///

Among the many scars of the recession, the most intolerable should be the pangs of chronic hunger that still assail a stunning 14.5 percent of the nation’s households, according to the Department of Agriculture’s latest survey. A decade ago, the figure was 11 percent — a group defined as regularly suffering food “insecurity,” or having 26 percent less to spend on food than households not going hungry. The survey shows that food insecurity rose with the recession and has remained stubbornly high.

Instead of providing aid for the hungry, House Republicans want to reduce the food stamp program — the most basic part of the social safety net — with $40 billion in cuts across the next decade. A showdown vote over this cruel plan is expected this month. The House majority leader, Eric Cantor, is leading a propaganda drive that invokes reform as its cause while blaming the victims of hunger simply because the food stamp rolls had to double to nearly 48 million people in the crunch of recession.

The Cantor plan would force an estimated four to six million people to lose the food stamps that now sustain them. It would invite state governments to ratchet benefits back further because they could use savings wrenched from the pantries of the poor for various other programs, including tax cuts. The measure’s “work requirements” provide no job training funds yet mandate that able-bodied, childless adults who cannot find at least part-time employment will lose their food stamps after 90 days, even if the local unemployment rate is prohibitively high.

Even without the House conservatives’ turning of the screw, the hunger of the working poor was starkly described by Sheryl Gay Stolberg in The Times last week from Tennessee. Parents told of how they must regularly skip meals to feed their children and hunt game when the food stamp allotment falls short of monthly needs.

The falsehood that cutting food stamps is about saving government money is evident when the House plans rich increases in crop insurance subsidies for farmers. Representative Stephen Fincher of Tennessee, a Tea Party favorite who wants food stamps cut, collected nearly $3.5 million in government farm subsidies from 1999 to 2012. Yet he declared in a debate over food stamps, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

The Republicans play up a few abusers of the program to mask the central fact of their plan: the tens of millions of Americans who rely on food stamps are children, the disabled, the elderly and low-wage families. For their sake, Congress should reject the Cantor proposal as the national embarrassment it plainly is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/09/opinion/mindlessly-gutting-food-stamps.html?_r=0&adxnnl;=1&adxnnlx;=1379695810-AEzQfaTihowxT2czHrGkuQ

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 9:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*The days of "compassionate conservatism" seem to be coming to an end.* nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 9:58 a.m

Nail that comment isn't true, maybe for the critters we vote in, but not for the average everyday next door neighbor conservative.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"maybe for the critters we vote in, but not for the average everyday next door neighbor conservative."

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.

Generally the people we vote in reflect our own ideology. If the evangelical base no longer is representative of "compassionate conservatism", who is? Voting in favor of Romney/Ryan, and their calls for austerity certainly doesn't measure up.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/september-web-only/will-evangelicals-vote-for-mormon.html

///Food Stamp Fight: Great For GOP Base But Not For Outreach///

The Republican-controlled House's vote to cut $40 billion from the food stamp program is just the latest example of how the GOP balance of power has shifted rightward over the past decade.

President George W. Bush isn't fondly remembered by progressives for much. But anti-hunger advocates credited him during his administration for strongly supporting the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (the formal name for food stamps) and other policies to help unemployed or low-income workers and schoolchildren from such families escape the fear associated with not knowing where their next meals would come from.

Under Bush, funding for SNAP doubled. When I talked with anti-hunger advocates fairly early in the Bush administration, they were already praising Bush for doing more than President Bill Clinton to directly respond to the food insecurity crisis affecting many people.

Whether it came from Bush's sincere desire to help those most in need, political calculus or both, it was the kind of "compassionate conservatism" policy meant to appeal to voters beyond the fiscal conservatives in the Republican Party's base.

With its expansive aspects, softer edge and its potential to broaden Republican appeal to voters beyond the base, it resembled Bush's successful expansion of Medicare benefits to include prescription drug coverage and the failed effort at an immigration overhaul.

By contrast, with its locked-in focus on fiscal austerity, the House GOP's approval of House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's bill that would deeply cut food assistance more closely resembles a case of political base cultivation.

It's safe to say it will do little to expand the party's national base and could even lose it some votes. After all, 15 House Republicans voted against the legislation.

What it comes down to is a kind of political pointillism. National Republicans like Bush and his chief political strategist Karl Rove focused on the big picture created by all those little dots.

House Republicans, meanwhile, are focused instead on the individual points —dollar amounts and their congressional districts.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/09/20/224394401/food-stamp-fight-great-for-gop-base-but-not-for-outreach

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 10:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Maybe American Islamists will take the lead for compassionate conservatism. That'd be a hoot!

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail you are right.There would be no need to make any cuts if the fraud could be found and solved.And I agree take away all the subsidies to any one.Why does big Agra or big oil need these when they all show huge profits.Elisi you make a good point but when you are in the same boat as your neighbor it is next to impossible to do much to help.I do think that most of us try to help our neighbors as much as we can but you have to take care of family first.It is easy for our elected ones to sit back and declare these things when they are living on the fat side of the hog.And to me it is both parties.Both sides are responsible for giving away subsidies.

timerick — September 20, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 20, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.

"but when you are in the same boat as your neighbor it is next to impossible to do much to help."

That's a great point. One thing we can be sure of, our local churches either lack the resources or motivation to fill these types of needs.

"There would be no need to make any cuts if the fraud could be found and solved."

It appears as though it's a more than sound program overall.

(From 8:54 a.m.)

-SNAP has a strong record of program integrity.-

• SNAP error rates declined by 57% since FY2000, from 8.91% in FY2000 to a record low of 3.80% in FY2011.[vi] The accuracy rate of 96.2% (FY2011) is an all-time program high and is considerably higher than other major benefit programs, for example Medicare fee-for-service (91.5%) or Medicare Advantage Part C (88.6%). [vii]

•Two-thirds of all SNAP payment errors are a result of caseworker error. Nearly one-fifth are underpayments, which occur when eligible participants receive less in benefits than they are eligible to receive.[viii]

•The national rate of food stamp trafficking declined from about 3.8 cents per dollar of benefits redeemed in 1993 to about 1.3 cent per dollar during the years 2009 to 2011.[ix] As you may have read in local news, USDA is aggressively fighting trafficking, but while there are individual cases of program abuse, for every one instance of fraud, there are hundreds of stories of heartbreaking need.  

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx#

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Representative Stephen Fincher of Tennessee, a Tea Party favorite who wants food stamps cut, collected nearly $3.5 million in government farm subsidies from 1999 to 2012. Yet he declared in a debate over food stamps, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 9:58 a.m.

This guy is reflective of the body. The Tea Party is a parasitical subgroup invading and sickening the host body of the GOP. The group still clings to the name 'gop' but are slowly being contaminated by the parasite philosophy of absorption and then putting self first even up to the point of death for the host.

Ever since Newton's 'standing on the shoulder's of giants' remark, man has striven to improve the lot of himself and his neighbors strictly because of the improvement, but it's difficult to see how that can continue when we have people who call themselves 'leader' but measures food as reward for some sort of ethnic principle. I just can't comprehend what it'd do to one's own karma to actually CAUSE by their actions a child, or an elder, or the infirm to go hungry because of their circumstance. timerick says it best at September 20, 2013 at 10:38 a.m ... get rid of the infection, but don't lob off the whole limb to do so.

jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

Obama = Red Herring

Quote " Raising the debt ceiling doesnt' mean were adding to the deficit"

Those were his words yesterday. Does that make sense. In todays world with Obama at the helm?? The bottom line is that Government shouldn't be in my health care business..

I also like i when you hear the Dems say they only want to cut 4Bill from the food stamp program over the next 10 yrs.. Oh and that 4Bill is waste according to Nacy P. So they acknowledge 4Bill in waste, really..So just cut the waste..

*More on food stamps-Nail
Around 1.7 million of those would be the able-bodied adults who would be subject to work requirements after three months of receiving food stamps. The 1996 welfare law put that limit into law, but most every state has been allowed to waive that requirement since the Great Recession began in 2008.* So all these lawmakers have known this have been the law of the land since the Clinton days yet they have't always followed it. It's only new to us who haven't know it's been around for 2 decades.

Washington state is cutting about $29 a month to their state run program. From $524 a month to $499. For average family of 4.

vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 11:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail I see the reports you post but how accurate are they.How much goes unreported? We have a convenience store next to the shop and hardly a day goes by that we don't see EBT cards being sold to someone. It is very frustrating for the clerks. They don't say much or turn them in because most of the clerks are on the same program. They don't want to rock their boat.

timerick — September 20, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


for roger ---

Washington Sen. Don Benton—part of the Republican majority that tanked $450 million in spending for the Columbia River Crossing this year—sent an open letter to Oregon Legislators today, telling them to do what his state's lawmakers did: let the project die.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30715-washington_senator_to_oregon_legislators_let_the_columbia_river_crossing_die.html

langenthal — September 20, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 11:19 a.m.

It makes me wonder if these Reps ever get out and meet the folks they represent. At some point, you would think a sound conscience would take over.

Gerrymandering (both parties) should either stop or have strict guidelines. The dishonest self motivated ones have little reason to govern effectively. A House committee to address this issue would be a start.

I'm sure Tom Delay would volunteer to get things rolling.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Obama = Red Herring

vanwa-Do you believe President Obama is a legitimate President of the United States? That without question he was born on American soil and is the lawful Commander In Chief? Do you believe he is a Muslim? Considering your past rhetoric, what say you?

Quote " Raising the debt ceiling doesnt' mean were adding to the deficit"

"Those were his words yesterday. Does that make sense. In todays world with Obama at the helm??"

vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 11:33 a.m.

Let's take them in context, and quiet the right wing punditry for a moment.

(a moment of silence..............)

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven’t been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you’ve already racked up, Congress. It’s a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."

Kinda hard to argue with that. Something many freshman House members can't wrap their collective heads around. We're paying our bills on time!

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 20, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.

"Nail I see the reports you post but how accurate are they.How much goes unreported?"

Everything is referenced/sourced at the bottom of the page. Pretty extensive. There undoubtedly is a portion of fraud waste & abuse, as with any program. This program in particular seems to have little overall.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx#

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 10:31 a.m

Nail have you ever heard the term "vote for lesser of the two evils"?

Let me ask you this...when you vote for a person, is it cause everything they say or vote on you totally agree with? Let me know cause I have been voting for almost 44 yrs and I haven't found one politician I totally agree with 100% on either side of the isle.

Another thing, when do the politicians ever really listen to the people?

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 12:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 12:58 p.m.

"Nail have you ever heard the term "vote for lesser of the two evils"?"

Yeah. But what do evangelicals consider to be the two evils? The Mormon or the black man?

And what was it exactly that caused evangelicals to vote for Romney/Ryan?

Here are some well articulated thoughts on the matter:

///Conservative Evangelical “World View” In Sharp Relief///

Lots of progressive bloggers are having lots of fun with some of the crosstabs from PPI’s latest poll of likely Republican primary voters in Alabama and Mississippi—particularly the numbers showing a powerful reluctance to accept that the president is a Christian, and an embarrassingly large minority still favoring miscegenation laws against interracial marriage.

But: asked about the president’s religion, only 9% of evangelicals in both states agree Obama is a Christian (as opposed to 26% of non-evangelicals in Alabama and 19% in Mississippi). An actual majority (50% in AL, 54% in MS) of evangelicals think Obama is a Muslim, and the rest say they don’t know. It’s worth noting that the “don’t knows” probably include quite a few people who don’t think Obama is a Muslim, but also, like Rick Santorum, don’t much believe mainline Protestants are actually Christians.

Interestingly enough, self-ID’d evangelicals in these two states are also much more likely than others to favor legal bans on interracial marriage: nearly one-fourth in Alabama, and one-third in Mississippi.

Political observers who don’t pay much attention to religion or who lump all believers together probably can’t quite comprehend the extent to which white conservative evangelicals in this country have come to conflate their faith with conservative cultural values, creating a highly self-conscious “world view” that leads them to identify the Word of God with the mores of the (relatively recent) past. I used to have some country relatives who refused to acknowledge daylight savings time (as I wish I could have yesterday morning!) on grounds that standard time was God’s time! This as much as simple racism may well explain why a lot of these folks think it was a mistake to repeal miscegenation laws and elect as president a black man with the foreign-sounding name.

Read more @ http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_03/conservative_evangelical_world035994.php

Sounds like ignorance and bigotry, mixed with a whole lot of Voodoo.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail, I can't answer your questions because you lumped all conservatives, Christians together and I can not answer for them.

I'd say (my opinion only) the majority of Evang. voted for R/R because they are considered Christians or just maybe cause they felt as I do that Obama just doesn't know what the hell he is doing and has messed up more than he has fixed.

I myself votes for those I feel will do the job to better all of us. Now after what they do, after they get into office is different than what was said during campaign time, (Leavitt over tolls) nothing anyone can do but send emails, hand written letters, and call to voice your opinion. Then if not listened too.. vote against them the next round.

I have to say this also, the 2 parties today are NOT the 2 parties of our parents of decades ago.

As far as churches stepping up and helping out..I have said before some churches do have food banks and will/have helped out in food, but they will not that I know of pay bills for people.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.

Fair enough.

Something else we haven't discussed, but probably should. I don't know if you are aware of our.. avatarial alliteration earlier (?), but I have felt pretty good today.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 8:35 a.m.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 8:35 a.m.

On the same subject (and please don't let goldenoldie know about this, as it might upset her) a holyoldie convergence took place this morning.

The postgasmic primordial soup has gone chowder! The cat could upset the brew's hormonal balance. Beware!!

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal |

holycrapola — September 20, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 2:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — September 20, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.

I have to agree with you. They do have to find the abuse of the system and do something about it. I have seen people buying nothing but junkie type foods at the stores but I have also seen those using EBT buying good nutritional foods also.
A friend that works in a grocery store told me last night that the WIC program gives a list of foods like fresh fruits, veggie, milk, cheese, fruit juices, dry beans etc that they can buy using the checks they get. Why can't EBT do the same?

The farm I go to to get fresh fruit and veggies off airport way in Portland..I see many families there on Saturday's using EBT buying fresh products. I have been buying from them since 1972 and it's all locally grown.

Food banks all over are having trouble keeping stocked. We need to see the stores stepping up and helping as well when we can give to the food banks. These trucking companies instead of throwing away the good items with the damaged could also donate. But again the big corporations that hire the trucking industry has a say in if the whole product gets dumped in the dumpster or not. Like if one carton out of a case breaks open and leaks..they throw the whole case away. They could donate the good cartons but the company says dump the whole case, that's what they do. Total waste IMO. That's what makes me mad.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 2:15 p.m

LOL

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 2:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 20, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.

The only "DUMMY" in this forum is the one who makes far too many ASSumptions lately. I don't have a "stash" of food. I have a pantry I keep updated for the food we need to get us by through the winter.

Guess you haven't heard of the FEMA suggestions for emergency foodstocks now, have you! I gave a rational explanation of how someone can make a $5 dinner for a family of four and you naturally, chose your idiotic, blatant and ignorant attack. You know how tired legumes become???

Yeah, I have a $2.50 soup recipe enough for 6...but that'll go into my book along with the other recipes I will share. My real friends and family don't have to wait.

By the way, do you have YOUR survival kit ready in case of an emergency, holycrapola? How 'bout bottled water or batteries or a wind up radio? How many meals are you prepared for in case of an emergency to where you would have to pack up and leave quickly? Do you have your list of emergency numbers? What about your important documents you must have in case there's damage due to wind or an earthquake...or damaging rains? Do you have your insurance up to date?? Do you have alternate heating and cooking methods in case the lights or natural gas go out (this morning in Tigard...natural gas turned off to several customers due to damage by construction workers for example)??? Or what about your Vespa??? Do you keep the tank full?

Just how ready are you, holycrapola.

It's National Preparedness Month.

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


for roger ---

9/19 from the office of WA AG - Oregon-only only CRC OK

"--- please be advised that Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT)has existing authority to authorize Oregon to construct, operate, and maintain a bridge over the
Columbia River and on lands in the State of Washington. This authorization would be consistent with the long-standing cooperative agreements Washington and Oregon have executed for the bridges spanning the two states."

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/C3D2FACD-4F52-4E40-8256-89301D83C61C/94464/CRCMemoToGovInslee.pdf

langenthal — September 20, 2013 at 2:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.

Funny! No cat will drag me into their litter pile...8)

Regarding your response to mine about the Portland Rescue Mission...I was merely sharing the fact that Veterans are still seeking help from places such as PRM. Maybe the government help isn't as good as they portray it. That's all I meant. Red Herring? I didn't think so.

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail
It is in the Constitution that congress must pay all public debt.No ifs ands or buts.But our president doesn't seem to get this.. He still hasn't even come up with a budget....

Nail, when is Obama going to come up with a balanced budget???
Nail- Yes he is our president wether we like it or not. Counting down the days. I personaly don't trust him as I'm sure there are more than 50% that don't.. NSA, Benghazie, Phone Tapping... Can go on but why..

On the improvidence of Obamacare you , me and everyone else will feel it's deficit effect on the economy and on individuals and business in the coming years. Once the credit card gets maxed out Obama just keeps up the credit limit... I really don't the R can defund it so we will be stuck with it..As some one said earlier, I think Roger, it's better than nothing. No it's not... It's like putting a bandaid on over a shotgun blast wound.. 18 Trillon and counting in debt and this President wants more.

HC- You are right on this one... We are spending ourselves to DEath...

vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Just curious vanwa..where do you get your news?

///Deficit Is Shrinking Quickly///

WASHINGTON—A rapidly shrinking federal budget deficit is upending bipartisan talks to reach a federal budget deal, illustrating the conundrum Washington faces with an improving near-term fiscal outlook but continued longer-term pressures tied to aging baby boomers.

The Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday the federal deficit is expected to shrink to $642 billion in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, narrowing from the agency's estimate of $845 billion three months ago and sharply lower than last year's $1.087 trillion shortfall.

The agency attributed the drastic shift to higher-than-expected individual and corporate tax payments, due in part to growth and higher rates that kicked in at the beginning of the year, and large dividend payments that mortgage-finance companies Fannie Mae FNMA +6.40% and Freddie Mac FMCC +7.50% plan to make to the government this year.

After four straight years of $1 trillion deficits, the country's fiscal picture is changing. A slowly recovering economy, cuts in government spending driven by periodic budget clashes, and higher taxes have narrowed the gap between what the government brings in and what it spends.

Read more @ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324216004578483223631771366.html

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Some of you folks live in an information vacuum.

Change attachments.

///Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?///

"However, you don’t get to have it both ways. Credit whom you will, but if you are truly interested in a fair analysis of the Obama years to date—at least when it comes to spending—you’re going to have to acknowledge that under the Obama watch, even President Reagan would have to give our current president a thumbs up when it comes to his record for stretching a dollar."

Read more @

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Did anyone read Pat Tims article on thweather coming up the other day... He also noted that the Ice shelf had grown to such a large area that we haven't seen for some time up in the Arctic Ice Shelf..It grew by 60% in just one year..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/Global-cooling-Arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html

Now there talking about the possibility of Golbal Cooling...Yikes.. Better get my 6 months of food and water and energy ready..

vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I got a sailboat ocean ready to go at a moment's notice when all hell breaks loose."

holycrapola — September 20, 2013 at 4 p.m

Ever read 'Lucifer's Hammer'?

jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 20, 2013 at 4 p.m.

You've been watching the Revolution reruns again, eh???

Better have your ammo stash and your sidearm ready. You think you're safe on a sailboat???

Any "ocean-ready" sailboat has its limitations of storage capacity. I hope for your sake that it's at least a 30 footer. So what happens when the wind doesn't blow and you're out of fuel?

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.

Good One!

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Bon Voyage. May the wind be at your back.

timerick — September 20, 2013 at 4:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Here's a song for ya, holyc -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR7qx...

goldenoldie — September 20, 2013 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-

That's old news boy.. Reagan also uped the debt cieling 3 times more than Obama at the current time. Oh well. Our debt has risin over 10 Trillion under Obama.. And I'm giving him credit for a couple years after he got elected. You can look up anything on the web abd quote it.. Bottom line He has botched pretty much everything he has touched. If he only would have started off on the right foot instead of trying to slam everything through by saying you better do it or else. He's a Chicago Bully Dude..You don't get it.. Teamwork and partisan workmanship are what gets things done...There's no "I" in Team.. Listen to Obama speak next time, He will use the word I for every 30 seconds of speech..DB

vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


May the wind be at your back. -- timerick — September 20, 2013 at 4:16 p.m.

But only for halfway timerick. Otherwise he’ll circumnavigate the globe and end up back here! Let the Chinese deal with him:)

kn_dalai — September 20, 2013 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Golden, sailboat? LOL Maybe in a bathtub sailboat along with his rubber ducky?

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Steven Callahan, the guy who wrote 'Adrift', was toppled by a rogue wave...

Not much safety at sea when you start really thinking about it. Pirates?

jacjak — September 20, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — September 20, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.

"You can look up anything on the web abd quote it.."

Convenient.

That's why I chose revered right wing publications to quote.

Your reasoning is a prime example why our government is so dysfunctional as of late.

When it's all said and done-you just repeat angry talking points from the far right. Nothing this President could do would ever alter your opinion, right? Regardless of facts, your disdain for this President runs quite deep.....

Please respond to-vanwa-Do you believe President Obama is a legitimate President of the United States? That without question he was born on American soil and is the lawful Commander In Chief? Do you believe he is a Muslim? Considering your past rhetoric, what say you?

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

He isn't the all omnipotent, omniscient messiah that many left think he is or as the media makes him out to be.

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Jeez. Let me change the subject to see if I can add to the civility downfall.

Jaime H-B did not vote today, for or against, to defund Obamacare. She was absent. She most likely was spending time with her precious, critically ill baby girl, as I would be doing were I in her place.

Had this sweet child been the daughter of someone on Medicaid or without healthcare, what do you think her outcome and prognosis would have been? Do you think Obamacare might be a way to save more babies who do not have health insurance?

I am not heartless, but I think this question is the elephant in Abigail's NICU and I assume the Herrera-Beutlers are asking themselves this question, too, and counting their blessings. Afterall, I do not believe they are heartless.

Sometimes life teaches us hard lessons.

Just my Friday evening current event thoughts.

manthou — September 20, 2013 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not at all and no one is saying that. He's far from it. But that isn't the subject at hand.

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Off to Arawan's for a yummy curry dish of Gang Ped

ELISI — September 20, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WA Atty Gen Bob Ferguson, just in time for his fund-raiser shrimp feed, has given the legal OK for Oregon to go it alone on the CRC.

Friday night news dump, in the hopes no one will notice:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/washingtons_attorney_general_g.html#incart_m-rpt-2

manthou — September 20, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, folks, we all need to listen to Holy. He knows it all. He will tell you if your illness is politically correct or if you brought it on yourself.

Elisi, just by eating at a restaurant, he will now doom you. IRRESPONSIBLE EATING! Not cooked from scratch from all organic things you grew/raised yourself. The horror of it all!

That sailboat. It gets bigger with every telling. He either rides of into the sunset on his Vespa or he sails into the sunset.

If only....

And to quickly enter the Obamacare fray. I am all for it. Doesn't go far enough. Anybody out there who really thinks the current state of it all is decent?

The Republicans in DC stinks. Why is it that Dems and liberals get accused of not being of team think when these people are absolutely willing to throw us under the bus to get rid of the ACA? Where is the team work there?

And for something that is a Republican idea itself....

ahhh, Nails, they have lost the last of their brain cells. When's the next vote?

luvithere — September 20, 2013 at 6:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Many sailors heading out? I foresee a big collision on the seas.
I thought you were hanging with bikers? Now its sailors?

All in good fun, Holy. That's what you get for your boasting and know-it-all attitude.

Friday eve, people. Enjoy the weekend! Including the rain.

I feel like eating unhealthy food. Wonder why.

luvithere — September 20, 2013 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"And for something that is a Republican idea itself....

ahhh, Nails, they have lost the last of their brain cells. When's the next vote?"

luvithere — September 20, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.

And to think luvit. Out a million republicans to choose from who represent their ideology, thoughts, principles, and above all to enact Republican Policy on a national level, who do they choose to represent them as their President just one year ago. The author of RomneyCare, the Mittster himself. Their leader provided our President with the the template for ObamaCare. And now listen to them. Threatening to shut down our government because of it. Unmitigated gall comes to mind.

Truly...one in a million.

Ya gotta luvit!

nailingit — September 20, 2013 at 7:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As most of you know I don't lean right or left.But I will put my 2 cents.My daughter married a Canadian and when she fell ill in 2007 the care she got was second to nothing.We lost her but I was very impressed with the care she got.There is no reason we can't do that here.Everyone deserves the same care.HC if you want to bail, as I said keep the wind to your back so you won't blow back.Those of us that really care will stay here and try to make things be better.Running away has never solved a thing.But run rabbit run.

timerick — September 20, 2013 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick @ 9:05 pm: We lived in Canada for five years. I had my youngest son there and he was a dual Canadian/US citizen born abroad. Even though we returned to the US and raised him here, when it came time for college, as a Canadian citizen, he had his pick of any Canadian university for free. No tuition.

Healthcare was very good. No one was turned away. We were not on any waiting list for any critical care.

There were dental clinics in the schools.

Taxes were high, but the salaries were high.

We can return there anytime, as we were granted permanent residence status. If the prairie winters were more forgiving (40 below for weeks) or if BC were more affordable, it would be on my "places to consider moving" list.

I had a 18 year old student a few years back who was blind with other chronic medical needs. He was born in Canada of a US mother and Canadian father, but had never documented his citizenship there. I helped him gather the information needed and he obtained his citizenship documents and a social insurance card. After graduation, he hooked up with services for the blind in BC and off he went. He has a job and all the healthcare he needs. Healthcare here would have taken such a large chunk of his salary that he would probably be living below the poverty line in WA: just another one of the working poor.

The only problem with Obamacare, from my perspective, is that it is not a single-payer system, as is Canada's government healthcare.

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 4:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The third of the month is fast approaching, holy. Hope your sailboat is well stocked.

When you make a statement, you might try to get it right. If Ratzhoid is still a label you have for goldenoldie, then I will answer simply with the fact that I do not call MAX "Loot Rail." I label it the "Loo Rail." Definition of Loo is "TOILET."

So what is my nickname for posting on the Oregonian? or KPTV? or KATU? or WW? Did you truly think Lew Waters' blog is the only one I post on other than this forum?

Mighty narrow minded of you, almighty Worldly One!

I'm with Tim on what I'd do if the "S" DID hit the fan. I'd stay and work with others to make things better. I'm not like you. I'm not a lone runner.

Have a wonderful day. I'm taking up Luvithere's advice and enjoy the weekend.

goldenoldie — September 21, 2013 at 8:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Langenthal and Manthou,

I've been reading the decisions coming from both WA and OR. I'm not seeing much new in our State AG's letter; WSDOT was already making agreements with ODOT under the CRC umbrella. An agreement to allow ODOT onto Washington soil logically follows the previous decision that TriMet can do so.

I think everything is in limbo until we hear what the OR legislature decides. Until then these kinds of decisions, and the USCG one, could only hinder the project, but do little to move it forward. I think the latest from Benton was more a warning from our Senate; if Oregon does decide to go ahead, then they'll start putting up the legal challenges in the courts and in the State budget process.

After reading the recent analysis from the OR Treasurer's office to Ted Wheeler, I can't begin to imagine how their legislature will agree to Gov Kitz's go it alone plan. Most Oregonians consider the CRC mainly of benefit to WA, and of almost no benefit to them outside the Portland Metro area. 2280 was very specific in capping the State's cost share at $450 million, that WA must participate, and a few other stipulations to ensure their possible losses are minimized. The Kitz plan raises that liability into the billions, which could cripple them if anything doesn't go perfectly.

We will almost definitely enter Year #2 of the sequester. That $900 million TIFIA loan Kitz's plan requires is on extremely shaky grounds. This would come from the Highway Trust Fund, which under MAP21 is not being funded anywhere near the amounts being asked for around the country. And the amount of funding to the general fund, where the New Starts money would come from, also faces reductions under the sequester. So, would the OR Legislature elect to go ahead with the project, and hope that 1) Congress will agree on a budget this year, and 2) if a budget is passed, that Sen Murray and Rep DeFazio can overcome a Repub antipathy toward rail projects and get the full funding they would need?

The analysis also showed that if interest rates rise by 1% before the bonds they'll have to sell are sold, then the estimates show them going into the red. Where does the state find the money to meet their payments? OR has fought to raise their credit rating from AA- to AA+ over the past 5 years; having their ability to meet the payments in doubt will threaten this rating and lead to it dropping. They'll have options (raising tolls, tolling I205, and instituting a state sales tax), but all of these will involve fights.

The analysis shows that the CRC would have to come in at or under budget. Is this even remotely possible? ODOT hasn't tackled a project of this magnitude. Their recent performance doesn't help; the OR 20 project was originally estimated at $140 million. They're now at $400 million, and will probably cancel part of the project to meet this amount. Also, large projects of this type routinely go over budget.

So - Does this really make sense for Oregon?

roger — September 21, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: David Madore, on Facebook, claims that the Coast Guard CRC resisters have been replaced by rubber stampers who will approve the project before the deadline date.

Of course, David Madore makes all sorts of grandiose claims and promises on his FB page. He needs a truth-o-meter attached to it.

I have no idea of where the CRC will be going. I do know that if it survives, it is gonna get a new nickname.

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A WA legislative committee was briefed on the CRC audit recently. The audit will be ready in April of 2014.

The PPT and PDF summary presentation is available here. You have to look for it among others, but it is under CRC Audit:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.leg.wa.gov/JLARC/Pages/default.aspx

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Tiffany Couch seems to have distanced herself from David Madore and the CRC work she completed for him since she joined Greg Kimsey and Steve Stuart's Move Clark County Forward coalition.

She does not comment on the Columbian, it appears she has removed her CRC links and documents that used to be on her business website.

Madore either pissed her off finally with his micromanaging or her colleagues convinced her that her business would do a whole lot better if she adopted a more moderate, independent stance.

Being attached to Madore's hip is not such a positive thing.

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

Good find on the audit presentation! It appears they're going to look at the area Tiffany was concerned with in her initial presentation - the overruns and whether any were due to duplicitous billings. The original message put out by our State Auditor was that he considered this a waste of time. Interesting.

I've been a fan of Tiffany since I first ran across her info. I also checked out the Acuity website and some of her other work. The lady is a professional. Madore may have hired her to do a smear job, but everything of her's I read was supported with details; ones that my very basic knowledge of government contracting told me her concerns were valid. And she never flat out said something illegal was going on - rather, she noted there were inconsistencies that indicated poor oversight by WSDOT and that merited an in depth look. Anyhow, it is good that she's distancing herself somewhat from Madore.

There is a fairly new Vice Commandant of the Coast Guard, appointed in May 2012. Vice Admiral Currier was Commander of the Northwest District in the 2008 time frame, and is in charge of the decision makers for the approval process. I've no idea what his take is on the project. The Commandant, Admiral Papp, has been there since 2010. I could be wrong, but these guys have been saying all along that their primary concern is maritime traffic on the river, and whether the bridge will hinder it. Their instruction that covers this actually allows a little wiggle room with this.

roger — September 21, 2013 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Saturday observation while avoiding house cleaning.
German elections in a couple days. Almost 100% sure that old Angela will make it again. The Economist has her on front page with the LOL ripoff headline of "One woman to rule them all".

Got to tell you guys, having just been there and watching campaigns on TV etc., I could not say if the lady is religious, goes to church, is married, has kids, or what she eats. These things just are not part of a campaign. The fact that she is a woman also plays zero role and just doesn't come up. Nobody feels the needs to mention her gender. it is is all about the politics. That's it.

Honestly, how refreshing. Nobody gives a rat's behind about gender or religion, focus is on what it's supposed to be.
That doesn't mean I agree with old Angela and about 75% of her politics. 25% are ok. But to focus on the topic at hand and not zeroing in on everything but ( thereby eliminating the need by politician to appear holier than thou), is truly great.

luvithere — September 21, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


If anyone wants to know what's wrong with our current state of affairs, just watch this vid. Amazing stuff from this House Rep. (it's right after GOP Rep Peter King calls Ted Cruz a fraud!)

///GOP Rep Has Birther Brain Freeze, Can't Say Obama Was 'Legitimately' Elected President///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/21/blake-farenthold-obama_n_3967771.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 21, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I think Tiffany Couch performs an important legal function and is top-notch, too. She is supposed to go into an audit without any preconceived notions and she needs to be objective, or her credibility is on the line. No one will hire someone who they think might start that sort of legal high-stakes investigation from a biased point of view and with an agenda. My guess is that some of her public statements or videos made when she was working for Madore came back to bite her as impeachment fodder in court testimony. Or she was losing business due to her perceived alliance with that very influential and political client from US Digital. Regardless, I am thrilled to see her pull back from being one of Madore's many mouthpieces.

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere: Maybe the Germans are simply smarter than your average American when it comes to the ability to focus in on what really matters in a political leader?

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 1:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, maybe maybe. My understanding is that the rest of Western Europe does it the same though to various extents.
Our American puritans, however, still seem to miss the point.

As I said, I am no fan of Angela and her EU centric politics that seem to forget her own country. Half the E U countries should never have been allowed to join and she pushes for more.

luvithere — September 21, 2013 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, Manthou - Here's one that ought to get your interest.

Chuck Todd is catching flak for a comment on Morning Joe earlier this week. He and Ed Rendell were talking, and Rendell noted that the White House is at fault for not properly selling the Affordable Care Act, and that most who are opposed are because they haven't heard the truth. Todd responded that the misinformation people believe is stuff the Repubs have successfully sold. He then followed with "What I always love is people say, 'Well, it's you folks' fault in the media.' No! It's the President of the United States' fault for not selling it."

There is one hell of a backlash going on, with people holding forth with the position that it's the media's responsibility to search out the truth and expose the lies. Todd has responded that he never said the media shouldn't expose lies - that his only point is that the White House has failed to sell their program.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/21/chuck-todd-petition-obamacare-media_n_3967407.html?ir=Media

I expect we'll hear more. But it's really getting desperate when NBC's chief White House correspondent - someone who we'd expect to be as impartial as possible - gets called to the carpet for telling the truth.

roger — September 21, 2013 at 3:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger-Much ado about nothing. How did he get called on any carpet? Too much time in the RW blogosphere.

He was stating the White House has done a poor job of messaging. It's not the media responsibility to sell it...and......

"But it's really getting desperate..."

Kinda. The conservative soothsayers are at it again...

nailingit — September 21, 2013 at 4:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: There is so much desperate spin out there from both sides. Since I have seen Chuck Todd take politicians on both sides to task for half-truths and lies, the world should accept his reasonable explanation of his own comment. But it is much more politically expedient to interpret his words for him and ascribe evil motivation to him.

What worries me most is when journalists climb in bed with politicians and do their dirty work for them, like Judith Miller did in publishing "facts" (propaganda) spoon-fed to her by the Bush Administration so they could quote her story the next day to defend themselves to the public.

Haven't seen much of Judith Miller since then.

Chuck Todd? He'll be around tomorrow. This is so much thunder in the distance, I agree with nailingit.

manthou — September 21, 2013 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


8/10/13 from FB page Tiffany LeMay Couch:

I'm disheartened by all of the rhetoric being spewed about the Columbia River Crossing forensic accounting work being undertaken by the State Auditor's Office. First, can we please celebrate the fact that it's taking place at all? Isn't it good news that it is?! Second, it is short-sighted to automatically assume that it will be meaningless. Please, let's give the Certified Public Accountants and the Certified Fraud Examiners within the State Auditor's office an opportunity to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Figure heads will say what they will say - but the people in that office who have the credentials they worked their tails off for must be supported for their efforts. Take it from me, they are under an immense amount of scrutiny and it isn't any fun to be in their shoes.

langenthal — September 21, 2013 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails at 4:22 p.m. - "Much ado about nothing. How did he get called on any carpet? Too much time in the RW blogosphere."

I took the article from your source - Huff Post.

The complaint against Todd is coming from Credo Mobilize - a website dedicated to promoting activism. From their main page header - "MAKE PROGRESSIVE CHANGE & DEFEAT REGRESSIVE POLICIES." http://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/tell-nbc-news-correcting-republican-lies-is-part-of-your-job#

It's coming from PoliticusUSA - dedicated to "Real Liberal Politics." http://www.politicususa.com/2013/09/18/msnbcs-chuck-todd-job-challenge-republican-lies.html

It's coming from The Daily Kos, the "largest progressive community blog in the United States." http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/20/1240107/-My-letter-to-Chuck-Todd-regarding-how-he-serves-no-function

The conservative websites are covering it - But they're laughing their butts off. Chuck Todd beats their side up quite frequently, so to see this reaction to his one comment has them highly amused.

roger — September 21, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger-HuffPo..my source. You seem to post quite a bit from them, and no shame doing so I might add. Again, they reprint articles/commentary/opinion from a broad political spectrum. Go to their weird section-you'll love it. I think they even have mermaids!

So you are caught up in the anti-ObamaCare media hoopla? :)

You guys who deem ObamaCare as a demon just won't give up. What were your latest projections of doom?? Hundreds of Billions...or more! all lost...AAHHHH!

The Affordable Care Act is law. It will be law tomorrow, a year from now and possibly forevermore.

This is like light rail on steroids, mixed with gun control and inter-racial marriage.

It's driving the right insane.

I've been saying for a couple years that we're witnessing the permanent end of the Republican party. ObamaCare seems to be the driving force at present, and could be the proverbial wooden stake that impales this heartless republican mess. The irony. The splintering is reaching mid-term and the divisions are red hot.

ObamaCare, although with early birthing pains, is bringing our nation to understand just how dysfunctional the right is. Everyone gains from that benefit, and there's no deductible.

Prospects of shutting down our government wakes people up who normally sleep through much of politics.

The Grand Old Party is on centre stage for all to see!

And here I'd thought we'd have to wait for 2014 to see this kind of crazy.

As a party-this is it. In three to seven years the republican party will no longer exist as we know it. Unless "leadership" takes charge-and that ain't happening.

I kinda miss them already. We need balance in government. Now, for the next two decades, we'll have to worry about democrats with too much power for too long. (maybe I'll become an Independent:))

We know what happened when republicans controlled everything for too long, from mid nineties-2006. A disaster we are still digging ourselves out from under.

At least it'll take us a few of those years to get government back to a progressive balance.

You know, the future is looking pretty bright.

Thank you Ted Cruz!

nailingit — September 21, 2013 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm BAAAAAAAAAACK...

I know, no big deal.

Ted Cruz is an idiot.

The real reason the Republican'ts in the House are all up in arms is because they were told they have to get their own healthcare and they can't read the forms.

hawkeye — September 21, 2013 at 9:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Can you name one problem that he has solved so far?"

holycrapola — September 22, 2013 at 7:40 a.m.

Some folks had a problem believing one man could totally screw up our political process.

Problem solved!

nailingit — September 22, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal @ 4:55 PM: Bingo. That's what I mean. A published opinion from Ms. Couch that is much more moderate than I have seen before (while she was on Madore's payroll). Smart businesswoman, protecting her reputation as impartial. Her future depends on people believing that.

The audit going forward: I am sure we won't get a transportation budget for the state without the agreement to go forward with it, as it appears to be doing.

In the meantime, we are starting to see what it is like to have a career politician in the role of Director of Environmental Services. Benton is making accusations and floating theories he did not prove in his memos. His buddy Madore protected him from proving his statements, as Stuart demanded. All that matters to B M and M is that the accusations were made and publicized. Their veracity does not matter because a certain percentage of people will swallow them as truth. Deed done. Benton is the best sort of pocket puppet. His salary relies on pleasing the CC Commission, two of whom gave him the job.

Time for an intrepid young reporter to do some digging on his own and put those memos to the truth test? Hope so.

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


We were up in Alaska last week and I thought I saw Benton up there along side the ship but after a good look I realized the blow hole was too small to be him.

Interesting how he makes allegations about his department prior to his coming but can't show the problems on paper.

Another question I have, wouldn't eliminating building permit fees have an impact on funds for storm water?

hawkeye — September 22, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


from Pat Jollota's FB late last night:

"... received the terrible news that our own real bearded Santa, Rob Figley was critically ill at Peace Health. Fortunately I was able to make it in time to say goodbye to that great soul. We are a little poorer for the loss of that great good heart."

He was a District 3, Position 2 Freeholder candidate.

langenthal — September 22, 2013 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal: Oh, so sorry to hear about Rob Figley. He WAS a good person. We lost a great advocate for equity and justice.

luvuthere: Fareed Zakaria's "What in The World" segment is about the German elections and why things are so much more rosy in your homeland. Catch the re-play if you can. It was instructive to me.

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal — September 22, 2013 at 9:14 a.m

Sorry to hear that. I didn't know he was ill. I always enjoyed reading his posts, didn't always agree but always enjoyed them.

On another subject,

If I was in charge of the BOCC, I'd make a rule that if you don't have proof in your hand of any wrongdoing, you can't bring it up at the meetings.

hawkeye — September 22, 2013 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, thanks for the referral to the article about Angela. Very well written, but his second to last paragraph is completely in error. Low immigration rates? Wrong. Totally wrong.

You see, we seem to get most of Eastern Europe immigrating these days. Why not? Located smack in the middle, and total unfettered access to the social safety net. That's the worst part about her politics and what ticks most Germans off the most. That all these folks come in and get the money. Who is paying for it? Take a guess.

There is a new party over there: Alternative for Germany. While they do not have a candidate for chancellor, they are asking for the second vote (remember, this is a parliament government). Goal: leave the EU, reintroduce the DM, and put a few barriers up for immigration. They will not get a big vote, but they will most certainly get a percentage. A signal to Angela to think.

luvithere — September 22, 2013 at 11:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


*You see, we seem to get most of Eastern Europe immigrating these days. Why not? Located smack in the middle, and total unfettered access to the social safety net. That's the worst part about her politics and what ticks most Germans off the most. That all these folks come in and get the money. Who is paying for it? Take a guess.* luvithere — September 22, 2013 at 11:55 a.m

Hmm sounds like what is happening right here in the good old USA. But no one is listening.

ELISI — September 22, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Worse Elisi. Over there, social security, health, benefits, you name it. From Day 1. After all, it is the EU and there are supposedly open borders and we are all the same etc. Kumbaya.
What's happening is though that German wages will be compressed down to mirror those back east. Now that should sound familiar.

luvithere — September 22, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Speaking of global immigration, interesting article in NYT today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/americas/for-migrants-new-land-of-opportunity-is-mexico.html?hp

jacjak — September 22, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak: Very interesting article, supplemented by the comments of those Westerners who have chosen to make Mexico their home and business venture.

I do know that San Miguel de Allende and other cities are a popular retirement spot for US ex-pats, but I did not realize that Europeans and others were setting up business there so successfully.

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 22, 2013 at 3:27 p.m

Just for fun, check out the history of the Romney family in Mexico.

hawkeye — September 22, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK. Please don’t laugh. (Well go ahead if you want to, but I’ll bet many have had the same ideas themselves.)

Human immigration (and emigration) have always seemed to me, intriguingly similar to osmosis or more generally diffusion at the molecular level of physical phenomenon, which occur naturally unless acted upon by an external force. The point of which is to reach an equilibrium. Patterns at one level are often strikingly similar to patterns at another level. Interesting how Mexicans have trekked north into the U.S. but Americans are now also trekking south into Mexico.

Most seem to think that Homo sapiens originated in Africa, and then differentiated into the various races as they diffused around the planet. Given no external forces, it seems likely that in the distant future, there will once again be a single race which will be an amalgam of present day races. In some sense, things will have come full circle.

(The next question concerns space aliens…. (of course, if some of these alien abduction stories are true, then some of that process has already begun on yet a new level.))

-------------------------------------------------

I must say luvithere; your obvious slight of kumbaya does surprise me.

kn_dalai — September 22, 2013 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye: Anderson Cooper had a great 360 piece on the Mexican Romneys. They are farmers, but their spread puts Dallas to shame. George Romney was born there. The Romneys did well in Mexico, didn't they? They claim, though, that they no longer practice polygamy, which brought them there, among other reasons. I always suspect that they like to be out of the lawman's reach for other reasons, too.

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn: What slight? That one country pays for so many folks of other countries? That this is a one-way street? it is a one-way street. Check out the rest of western Europe. They tell the same story to a lesser degree.

In the end, this is not sustainable. Once wages go down to mirror lower ones, we will have a very upset population. And that has already started. Not much different than over here.

Angela won, as expected but her coalition did not survive. The good woman will have to work even harder at compromise now within parliament.

On the other hand, to change topics, I agree with you about the one race thing. That might be a very good thing, imo. Getting rid of racism there.

luvithere — September 22, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Frank Decker and Micheline Doane, candidates for Vancouver City Council, are closely aligned with Christian Berrigan and his Liberty Coalition.

Whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide, if you vote and live in da "Couve.

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — September 22, 2013 at 5:35 p.m

They both have rec'd contributions from CCBG also. Doesn't Lew Waters have something to do with that group? I know Carolyn Crain is an officer according to their PDC filing.

jacjak — September 22, 2013 at 7:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


-Sunday Opinion Unsolicited Night (SOUP)-

"Benton is…floating theories…"

"…will swallow…"

"Benton is the best sort of pocket puppet."

manthou — September 22, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.

"We were up in Alaska last week and I thought I saw Benton up there along side the ship but after a good look I realized the blow hole was too small to be him."

hawkeye — September 22, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.

I think we've solved the "Who is Don Benton" question.

Could he be Moby Dick??

___

langenthal — September 22, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.

Sorry to hear of his passing.

Rest In Peace Rob Figley.

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holycrapola — September 22, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.

Is there an honest profession left in this country?

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ELISI — September 22, 2013 at 1:32 p.m.

I know what you mean. Russians everywhere you look.

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"…more Americans have been added to the population of Mexico over the past few years than Mexicans have been added to the population of the United States, according to government data in both nations."

Does that mean white people pick their fruit and mow their lawns?

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kn_dalai — September 22, 2013 at 5:07 p.m.

Waay too much time watching the History Channel. I could almost hear Leonard Nimoy narrating.

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"Anderson Cooper…spread puts Dallas to shame…practice polygamy…the lawman's reach for other reasons, too."

Sounds like a new CNN exposé.

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luvithere — September 22, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.

We already are one race. Human.

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jacjak — September 22, 2013 at 7:21 p.m.

Carolyn Crain scares the beJesus out of me.

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I'm out.

nailingit — September 22, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou --- from Jack Burkman's FB page approx 9 PM:

Jack Burkman for Vancouver City Council
It’s a shame that a PAC named “Vancouver Vitality” sent a hit piece attacking me and Tim Leavitt to voters this week. They don’t say who is behind it, failing to put the PDC required top funders’ names on it.

They claim I am “against the citizens of Vancouver” because I kept the “binding citizen petition” off the ballot. If I had supported putting that petition on the ballot, I would have broken the law. I would have violated our city charter, state law and the state constitution – the very laws I swore to uphold as a councilmember. This isn’t my opinion - this is the finding of a judge.

Who is “Vancouver Vitality” PAC? It took some digging to find the companies behind the PAC, then to find the people who own those companies. This attacking PAC is funded by leaders in the Clark County GOP. (See today’s Columbian for more information on this group) … Jack

langenthal — September 22, 2013 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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