Open forum, Sept 30-Oct 6

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342 comments

Comments

OK, my rain gauge reads 4.01 inches in the last 24 hours. Incredible!

hawkeye — September 30, 2013 at 6:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye,

Continued from last night.

Stuart doesn't come right out and say that was his reason, but the overall content of his first post sure as hell infers it. I don't read Madore, but I presume the Judas references are directed at his rants. What I narrowed in on was --

"But those people weren't who took the air out of the room. It was elected officials throwing baseless accusations around, rattling their sabers with vitriolic hyperbole, telling us that we must be stupid or corrupt if we don't agree with them, who ended debate before it ever began. I'm tremendously disappointed in those who participated in creating toxicity eerily similar to what's happening at the Federal level."

Stuart has stood by that 2008 commitment to a vote since it was put into policy. He didn't change when J. Stewart voted to separate an LRT tax initiative from the regular C-Tran funding tax initiative, against the city council majority position, He continued to reference this promise in the recent BRT funding discussions, even though he knew by that point it was too late to get this on the upcoming ballot.

He comes back in his second post and lists a few details of the Hamm plan that he saw as positive changes to earlier decisions. There's a hollowness to this, especially in that he skirts the vote issue by just saying it was important to get the positive message to Gov Kitz. I'm going with his first response - He was tired of Madore.

roger — September 30, 2013 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, off to work to read my furlough notification letter that I didn't bother to open on Friday.

roger — September 30, 2013 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Investigative reporter Seymour Hirsch in The Guardian:

"The republic's in trouble, we lie about everything, lying has become the staple." And he implores journalists to do something about it.

Old-time muckraking journalist makes a plea to hold government accountable, rather than crawling into bed with the Man, all cozy and warm:

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/media/media-blog/2013/sep/27/seymour-hersh-obama-nsa-american-media

manthou — September 30, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One of the first jobs I got after moving to Portland in 1976 was sewing stage draperies bound for Vegas in an old warehouse that is now an upscale something-or-other in the Pearl.

The demand for American-made clothing and products have increased and the manufacturers cannot find enough skilled workers to fill the positions.

Imagine that.

[link text][1]

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/business/a-wave-of-sewing-jobs-as-orders-pile-up-at-us-factories.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

manthou — September 30, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I wonder when the little comment indicator bubble will start functioning for the basement. It seems to work everywhere else on this new format. Zero comments indicated will likely bring zero new visitors to the basement.

roger- A bridge too far. Don't lose your air of diplomacy. Most of us are tired of local politico's throwing rocks at each other. (okay, maybe we're not. ((it's too entertaining:)) But come election time people will look to those with a level head, of which by & large you display eloquently.

Don't lose your mojo bro!

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


(roger don't mind us. We're discussing your value system. Since you've jumped into the political scene, a devaluation of such is inevitable, but retain what you can:)

HC- I engage folks regardless of their place in our muddied political spectrum. Yes, roger seems conservative on most issues, but that doesn't disqualify him from getting some love now and then. :)) For the most part he seems level headed and reasonable. It is difficult to engage him on his plan for forced government sterilization as well as his anti-light rail stance without some head shaking. But hey, nobody's perfect! roger has minuses as well as plusses, as we all do.

I don't know if I would vote for him or not if I was in his district. It would depend on much. His vision, or lack of it, for Clark County's future transportation needs are not aligned with mine. He could redeem himself if he advocated for legal brothels, head shop user subsidies and buying me a steak dinner. After all. I'm a Democrat and easily swayed for personal gain. :))

But seriously. Part of the problem with today's politics is a lack of respect for those who don't follow a certain ideology tooth & nail. I have gained respect for our roger avatar over the years. He's somewhat personable, great taste in music, and like many of us, has endured personal loss with head held high, which speaks to character imo, and there's just not enough of that on today's political scene.

What can I say, I kinda like the guy.

You branded yourself as a Libertarian a few months ago. In these political times, there is no one wackier then a self described Libertarian. They live on stale magic dust from the fifties, trying to take us back a couple hundred years without understanding our constitution they so vehemently place on their alter of hypocrisy. The religion of Libertarianism has only been around a few decades and for good reason. Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, the Paul boys, etc., all use this new founded faith to propagate a narrow, biased, and many times racist agenda.

Understanding you ( I think) no longer consider yourself one (Libertarian) after thinking about it, is a great example of labeling crossover. To me it doesn't matter much. You have some decent reasoning at times as well as roger.

I've never heard roger prop up Madore and his cronies, and yes, if he were to commit to that dark side it would be a sad day, and no doubt be politically disowned by many.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts in that they provided a nice segue to trash Libertarianism.

I tend to adhere to the Hard Rock philosophy, "Love All, Serve All".

Until I get screwed over.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

Who are you, and what have you done with the nail? ;^)

Drift — September 30, 2013 at 11:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift- It's not my fault. I haven't gotten high in a week! (prepping for employment)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 11:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

Wow...nails, I'm impressed!!! Well thought...well stated!!!

Nice one.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Must be the Austin Powers avatar...you got yer mojo goin'.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal


(Unemployment running out) Yikes

vanwadreamer — September 30, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwa- I've never been on unemployment, disability, or any other government program. I've never left a position other than voluntarily. (which I believe would disqualify me for such? Not sure) Your implications speak to just how shallow and biased your views are.

Character is a two way street, and you seem to be driving on the wrong side of the road.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 11:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


et. al

I did not mean to come across as one to criticize those who have needed these type of government services. They are there for a reason.

Some don't understand investing in promotional opportunities or otherwise. It's the type of jaded thinking as displayed from vanwa above, that is at the heart of not only dysfunctional politics in America, but our relating to fellow Americans on the whole. (not the dole)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at noon ( | suggest removal


They live on stale magic dust from the fifties, trying to take us back a couple hundred years without understanding our constitution they so vehemently place on their alter of hypocrisy. The religion of Libertarianism has only been around a few decades and for good reason. -- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

The founding documents of the United States are based on Libertarian ideas. It is about limited government. One who advocates government involvement in personal issues such as voluntary associations or drug use, is not advocating Libertarianism. One who advocates government control of the economy is also not advocating Libertarianism.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — September 30, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.

Holysheets...Nails and I have a pretty good understanding that we disagree on multiple issues...sometimes agree on others. Making a statement as I did at 11:10 am and the somewhat lame follow-up joke afterward wasn't with any strings attached. We share our comments and sometimes we joke. Why is it you find that suspicious??? You need to take a refresher course on social skills, 'sheets.

Paranoia will destroy ya.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 12:07 p.m.

"One who advocates government control of the economy is also not advocating Libertarianism."

I suppose it's delineating between "control" and "regulation" wherein lies the rub.

An "uncontrolled", or unregulated economy left for Corporate to run America's fiscal matters is more than scary.

However we are almost at that tipping point now.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.

A similar argument can also be made over certain social issues.

Your point about Libertarianism being something new is contrary to the idea of limited government.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The founding documents of the United States are based on Libertarian ideas."

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 12:07 p.m.

The same can be said substituting a number of other ideas or philosophy. e.g. Conservative-Liberal-Progressive etc. All are bound to interpretation as to how applicable they are to our Constitution. (which is in and of itself up for interpretation to a degree)

"A similar argument can also be made over certain social issues."

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.

Would you provide an example and your argumentation for such?

"Your point about Libertarianism being something new is contrary to the idea of limited government."

I was speaking to the Russian Ayn Rand inspired movement that we are experiencing in political circles today. The Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand style government the majority of Americans are united against election after election. I would argue Libertarians should prop up Dubya and Reagan as prime example of anti-libertarianism, as they spent and increased our deficit like a kid in a candy store as no other.

Ss we now know, the end result was the creation of fewer jobs during 20 years of two Bush presidencies and Reagan, than Clinton did in eight years. Supply side economics aka "trickle down" never faired well. (I bring this up to refute the dynamics the right cites for this obvious hypocrisy) Not to stray from point, I suppose that's another argument to be had, although it's applicable to our conversation. Not only the scope of government, but it's success as well.

Limited government is not the end all. American government, to include democratically elected leaders ensuring it's success, and the people who voted them into office is.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 2:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Government Shutdown Blame Would Fall On Republicans, GOP Seen As 'Spoiled Children': Poll

Most Americans would blame congressional Republicans rather than President Barack Obama for a shutdown, and many Americans view the GOP as acting like "spoiled children," according to a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday.

Forty-six percent of respondents would blame congressional Republicans, 36 percent would blame Obama and 13 percent would blame both. Sixty-nine percent said that the GOP is acting like "spoiled children" in the budget fight, while 58 percent think that of congressional Democrats and 49 percent think that of President Barack Obama. Six in 10 respondents reject the GOP's approach and think it is more important to avoid a shutdown than to make major changes to the Affordable Care Act.

The poll is an indication that the Republicans' hard-line approach does not resonate with many Americans, and could have consequences in future elections. Nevertheless, the GOP has touted the tactic of using the continuing resolution to fund the government to demand changes to Obamacare, crafting the populist slogan "Make DC Listen."

The government will not remain open past Monday if Congress does not approve funding to keep it running. The House passed a short-term funding bill Saturday with a repeal of a medical device tax and a one-year delay in the implementation of Obamacare. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has said that he will reject that approach when the Senate convenes later Monday.

Alternatively, the standoff could end with House Republicans passing a "clean" continuing resolution to keep the government funded, with the support of Democratic members.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/government-shutdown-poll_n_4016014.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&utm;_hp_ref=politics

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal



holycrapola — September 30, 2013 at 2:13 p.m.

I like your statement, the only problem is there is nothing to threaten them with. It's not like he can say, if you don't fix this I'll fire you. I think they should be charged with "obstruction of justice". I know, that's not what it means but it sounds good.

hawkeye — September 30, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail-
Sorry you took it that way. UE is there for those who have paid into the system and need it. No need to be defensive... I hope you know The lettuce you smoke can cause Paranoia.... I didn't know you belonged to the HR Philanthrophy...I also prescribe to the same theories.. TAKE TIME TO BE KIND ... Is one I really care about ... Our society has become one more of takers than givers....

Just listened to the President speak to Americans about why the government will be shutting down. He is amazing..He still thinks the avg 27 yr old will pay what the average cell phone bill is a month.. Just blatant lies... And 37% of the american people believe that... The 6 in 10 ill informed people think we shouldn't shutdown the gov't in favor of putting Obamacare back a year.. and possibly making it better or more cost effective as well. That's where were at..I like it when some people say it's better than nothing. That right there tells me how ill informed some people are...So some folks would rather have a larger piece of POOP in their hand than a smaller one.

October 17th is an even bigger fight looming. Obama wants to inscrease the debt ceiling to 17 trillion... open that Credit card up more.. If Obamacare does start Jan 1st he will probably ask for even more money several more times in his presidency...

vanwadreamer — September 30, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

There's one little teeny, tiny detail Steve Stuart cleverly or blindly overlooked in his statement.

He quoted on his Facebook statement "No Increase in C-Tran taxes. Operations and maintenance paid for with rider fares and money that only exists if this project happens (sales tax from project, park-n-ride commercial leases, savings from routes dropping off at Clark College instead of Expo Center, with future revenue potential from park-n-ride stalls and premium fare)."

The quote sounds all fine and dandy, and the verbiage makes it sound as if all who ride 4, 44 and 47 continue through to Delta Park. Do they take into consideration the struggling students who utilize the same buses (90% of the riders) have their destination point at Clark College and do not continue through to Delta Park??? A rather clever way for TriMet to generate funds to pay for MAX...whether it be willingly or unwittingly to the riders, wouldn't you say???

Yet another fine example of the Financial Rape of Clark County Citizens by anything Oregon.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Should there be a government shutdown...the blame shouldn't be against just the Republicans. It should be against the system and the people who voted in all these jokers in the first place.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 3:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Most people will be blaming Republicans for the shutdown because it's the Republicans that are willing to shut the Country down. Sounds fair to me.

JohnK — September 30, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


All bullacrapola! Charlatans at their best filling your brain with the drug of hope and change.
Thats exactly what our President has been doing for 5 years...He is now using the word Blame for every 31 words spoken.. How bout using the word accept instead of words like fail misunderstand, reject, forfeit, deny, disagree, dispute, refuse.. This guy wants it his way or the highway... He doesn't know the meaning of the word Bi Partisan... Obama and the Dems want this to go through so bad in it's current form because they haven't done anything else in the 5 years he has been in office...

vanwadreamer — September 30, 2013 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hmm government shut down..people act like this is the end..
When since 1976 our government shut down a grand total of 17 times. Yes, I said 17 times.

Take a look at this report, looks like Dems controled houses in 8 of those shut downs Repubs in 2 and the rest shared control.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/

ELISI — September 30, 2013 at 4:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


vanwadreamer — September 30, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.

Running backwards with scissors.

___

"...the blame shouldn't be against just the Republicans..."

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.

Would you say that if the situation was reversed, and it was the Dems doing this?

I suppose if the shoe was on the other foot, and Dems were demanding a corporate tax increase of 25% (pick a number) or they would shut the government down..........

......your response would be the same.

One of the many problems on the right, is a failure to hold their own party accountable, one which you have brought to the forefront with clarity.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 4:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh absolutely, Nails. I'd say exactly the same thing. No question about it! It isn't a failure of the Republicans. It's a failure of the system. I don't judge the politician by party preference. I judge them by their actions. You can point out all the faults of one political party you are against and on the other side of the coin, someone else will do the exact same about your party preference. The politicians are all playing the blame game as well. Hence...nothing is ever solved. Instead, they settle on something less than adequate...loans from nations such as China increase...our financial status across the globe drops another notch...the US Dollar continues to drop in value...

and we're back at square one with higher debt and more people out of work.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 4:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I can see it now...

Repubs will give in to some of the demands...slapping each other on their backs for a job well done...all that chest bumping and hugs and handshakes. Dems will stand back...taking that huffy breath they all do and say "Yeah...well...it's about time you did something." And it will be the Dems who will try to take all the credit. Not a smart move though, because.................................................................

In the meantime, the taxpayers...the lowly individuals and families of the middle class will be the ones screwed over as usual.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails...

Do you honestly believe the politicians will be worried about what the government shutdown will do to the people?

Be honest, now.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

Your not much different than the far left in progressive Libs in Congress.. Their growing at the same pace of the tea party Rep...We should probably just not feed them and see who comes out of the doors in the end... One of the many problems for the far left the Dems are having is their very own presidents approval rating.. They don't and arn't willing to give the Bully Pulpit anymore power.He is a "LAMO DUCK" and they have elections coming up and thats there paycheck.. There not as stupid as everyone wants to portray them...Obama is at the end of his reign of Chicago style politicking... The R will chip away at the Senates democratic lead next mid term and probably pick up a few more seats in the House.. The Dems have had to 2/3 control but have had nothing accomplished due to the style and substance of their party...The president can end the shutdown, but he is UNWILLING obstructionist.

vanwadreamer — September 30, 2013 at 4:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There must have been a sale on forum red herrings today. Looks like the religious right bought em' out.

///Taxpayers pick up bill if government shuts down///

The old adage—turn off the lights to save some money—just doesn’t work when it comes to the government.

In fact, shuttering government offices has actually cost taxpayers money—an estimated $2 billion in today’s dollars the last time it happened in 1995 and 1996, when the government closed for 27 days.

And this time would be no different, budget experts say. Even if workers aren’t given backpay, as they were in the nineties, the government will still lose out on important sources of revenue, like inspection fines and visa and licensing fees. Plus, there are back costs to re-opening.

So while Republicans continue to dig in the ongoing budget showdown, they could end up doing the very thing they say they’re in Washington to stop: new government bills.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/30/government-shutdown-bilks-taxpayers/

___

///Government shutdown Q&A;: How long? What's the impact?///

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-government-shutdown-q-and-a-20130930,0,5564531.story

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And holyschmoley...before you react to my comment at 4:46 pm by bringing in Benton or Madore as you have incessantly in the past few weeks...I will be honest in telling you I'm not quite happy with their performances in recent months. Madore (who I did not vote for) is still too green around the gills and his actions in recent days about the C-Tran vote is something he should have stated when he had the chance BEFORE the vote. He is obviously very biased...too biased to do his job with integrity...but then again, what politician does??? Do I agree with him taking legal action...well, actually I do. I believe the vote was ill advised and was yet another theatrical part in the mind game against the taxpayers. I know the loo will eventually be here in Vancouver. I know there's no stopping the Corridor of the Future and plans to expand the loo. Yeah, you read it right...but that doesn't mean I won't put up a good fight till I see something I can actually believe that it is best for our community.

And Benton...yeah, I'm thankful he's put up a huge fight for the people when it comes to the CRC. That's what he was paid to do. As far as his job with the county goes...I'm not sure if Clark County purchasing land "next to the Ridgefield Wildlife Refuge in an effort to expand protection efforts for native species in the area" right now is in the best interest of the county. I believe the investment should have been in working with the landowner(s), helping them to preserve the properties in question rather than spending hard-to-come-by funds for land acquisitions.

So there you have it, holeyschmoley. Yes, I am a registered Republican...but I'm not totally happy with what the Republican Politicians are doing either at their job as Senator/County Commissioner or as County Environmental Services Director Don Benton/Member of Board of Directors at C-Tran. I'm not changing my political preference because I haven't seen any political party I care to associate...Republican Party included. Do I celebrate the fact that I'm a Repub???

Here's the clincher...

I don't.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Taxpayers pick up bill if government shuts down///

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.

WE ALREADY DO EVEN IF IT DOESN'T SHUT DOWN!!! What's the Difference???

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm glad you don't balance my checkbook. A few billion a day more.....eh...no big deal. :)

(and the right talks up fiscal responsibility)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK — September 30, 2013 at 4:04 p.m
"Most people will be blaming Republicans for the shutdown because it's the Republicans that are willing to shut the Country down. Sounds fair to me."

The Government can only be "shut down" if BOTH sides refuse to give, how can any reasonable thinking person blame just one side?

frobert — September 30, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, I have to laugh. On one of the questions on the link you provided at the end of your comment at 5:06 pm with the LA Times reflected my comment @4:46 pm when it comes to the politicians.

Q: How long will a shutdown last?

A: Both Republicans and Democrats will be watching to see which side gets blamed for the impasse. Whichever side is losing the battle for public opinion will eventually decide the price has gotten too high and will offer concessions.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — September 30, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

" I think they should be charged with "obstruction of justice". I know, that's not what it means but it sounds good."
So the President should be able to levy charges against Congressmen who don't vote the way he wants them to? Didn't the Roman Empire try that?

If you read the "Speech and Debate" clause of the Constitution, it says in part
"...shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

frobert — September 30, 2013 at 5:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It is a matter of precedent goldenoldie. Nothing new there, or with your comment.

///Stocks Drop As Government Shutdown Nears///

NEW YORK — Stocks fell Monday as Wall Street worried that a budget fight in Washington could lead to an event far worse for the economy_ a failure to raise the nation's borrowing limit.

Investors pulled back from stocks as a budget standoff between Republicans and Democrats in Congress threatened to push the government into a partial shutdown for the first time in 17 years. Lawmakers have until midnight Tuesday to reach a budget deal that would keep government in full operation.

There is a simple reason why the budget battle – and, more importantly, an upcoming fight over the debt ceiling – are so crucial: the credit of the United States is the bedrock that nearly every other investment is built upon, largely due to the assumption that the nation will always pay its debts.

"The concern is government has become so polarized that if it cannot pass (a budget), there's a greater chance that the debt ceiling battle will go to the brink or possibly lead to a default," said Alec Young, global equity strategist with S&P; Capital IQ.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell 128.57 points, or 0.8 percent, to close at 15,129.67. The Standard & Poor's 500 slid 10.20 points, or 0.6 percent, to 1,681.55 and the Nasdaq composite dropped 10.12 points, or 0.3 percent, to 3,771.48.

Monday's decline adds to what has been eventful September for investors. Stocks hit an all-time high on Sept. 18 after the Federal Reserve voted to keep up its economic stimulus program. But that enthusiasm vanished as Wall Street began to worry that the political bickering between Democrats and Republicans would lead to a government shutdown and crisis over the debt ceiling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/stocks-government-shutdown_n_4016417.html

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


LOVING how the blame game goes...

1. make wish list of wants
2. keep adding to said list
3. demand an end to a passed and signed law
4. demand an end to same law the Supreme Court said was a legitimate and defensible law.
5. add more stuff to the list of wants
6. change wants to demands
7. use aggressive, insulting, and partition language
8. up the dial on the hot putton talking points
9. under no circumstances explain exactly why the law should not go into effect when letting it do so would confirm the stance of not wanting it.
10. continue the threats, bullying, intimidation, and doomsday drama
11. be sure to act martyred
12. if martyred puzzlement fails, use victim stance.
13. add last minute additions to wish list
14. make sure budget is NEVER discussed without stamping feet and demanding more stuff
15. BLAME OBAMA for not compromising

jacjak — September 30, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.

So you think they aren't spending that every day? Have you looked at the debt clock lately, nails? It's going to cost that much whether or not the government does have a partial shutdown. I don't want to see it happen but I don't want to see a spending bill which will continue to climb.

I'm also glad I don't balance your checkbook. I plan for necessary expenditures and don't waste hard-earned cash on frivolous spending habits, so it's easy to keep the balance where it's supposed to be. How 'bout yours???

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — September 30, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.

PRICELESS theatrics played over and over again.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:23 p.m.

As I'd said before and I'll say it again...It's a system failure.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The same can be said substituting a number of other ideas or philosophy. -- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.

No, you’re wrong. The same cannot be said of other ideas. The Constitution was based on individual liberty amd limited government to protect those liberties, not on government supporting individuals from the public treasury, nor using government to mollify one faction at the expense of another, While those on the left have used the general welfare clause in more recent times to do just that, that has nothing at all to do with the founding political philosophy.

Would you provide an example and your argumentation for such? -- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.

There are those that believe that same sex marriage, drug use and a host of moral decadence problems are leading to the collapse of this country.

And as for all the rest of it nail, you might want to actually look at the roles of the executive and the legislative and figure just who it is that deserves the credit or the blame for whatever. (You’re far too hung up on Rand whom you clearly do not understand any more than you understand the idea of Libertarian).

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


A sample of Q & A's on the Washington state Employment Security Department website -

Will Employment Security and WorkSource remain open?

The Employment Security Department and local WorkSource centers are supported primarily with federal funds. We plan to keep all offices and functions operating through this week (Oct. 4). If Congress doesn’t approve a bill this week, we will have to start shutting down some of our functions next week. We will post additional details on this site later this week.

Will unemployment benefits continue to be paid?

We plan to continue paying unemployment benefits through this week (Oct. 4). We don’t know yet if we’ll be able to maintain operations if a federal shutdown lasts into next week. Continue to monitor this website for updates.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou,

Not sure if you're following this, but here's what's being put out there for the Oregon special session. 1 and 2 are PERS, 3 is income and other taxes, 4 is education and human resources, 5 is the seed regulation one, and 8 and 9 are adjournment. 6 and 7????

roger — September 30, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.

Nails...just heard on NBC that it will cost the taxpayers between $40 and $80 million per day.

goldenoldie — September 30, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"There are those that believe that same sex marriage, drug use and a host of moral decadence problems are leading to the collapse of this country."

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.

Will there you have it.

You equate legislating morality with our nation's fiscal matters. (a paper & pen issue)

Apples & Oranges.

As far as your uppity take on our constitution and Ayn Rand.

Добро пожаловать в Америку товарищ! Приветствую Айн Рэнд!

"And as for all the rest of it nail, you might want to actually look at the roles of the executive and the legislative and figure just who it is that deserves the credit or the blame for whatever."

Translation: I'm unable to counter your arguments about Americans voting en masse against Ayn Randian principles and logic, republican fiscal irresponsibility, lack of supply side job creation, and scope of government.

To repeat: Limited government is not the end all. American government, to include democratically elected leaders ensuring it's success, and the people who voted them into office is.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Part of the problem with today's politics is a lack of respect for those who don't follow a certain ideology tooth & nail. I have gained respect for our roger avatar over the years."
-- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.

"Who are you, and what have you done with the nail? ;^)"
-- Drift — September 30, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.

Well, shuckums, Nails - After a tribute like that, I'd buy you that steak dinner without your having to vote for me.

Drift, I do believe Brother Nails was sincere. I kept waiting for him to lower the boom, but it never happened.

And now please excuse me - I think I've something in my eye....

roger — September 30, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Something for Nails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2WJd...

roger — September 30, 2013 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Thank you for that. I'd never heard it before, and it literally gave me goosebumps. (then again so does Kate Upton)

It's fascinating how much has changed over the last century, yet in many respects, things remain the same.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 7:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Is this where Crapper goes at night?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rleqD...

roger — September 30, 2013 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 6:11 p.m.

You asked for an example of the argument on the other side and I gave it. Conservatives want government to butt in to certain personal issues and butt out of the economy. Liberals want government to butt out of those personal issues and butt into the economy. Which is why you’re every bit the hypocrite you accuse others of being. I guess I’ve said this about a thousand times now. Libertarian and Totalitarian are the two opposites. NOT Conservative and Liberal which are both a mixture of Libertarian and Totalitarian.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 7:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


frobert — September 30, 2013 at 5:21 p.m

See, that's what I like about you, frobro. Even though I penned a disclaimer, you took it literally. You ALWAYS do.

Lighten up a little, will ya?

hawkeye — September 30, 2013 at 7:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well roger and nail, I suppose I’m going to go and spoil the moment, but that “greatest speech” sounds remarkably like every keynote speech I’ve ever heard at the Republican and Democrat National conventions every four years.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Liberals want government to butt out of those personal issues and butt into the economy."

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 7:10 p.m.

With few exceptions, I can't recall throwing around the hypocrite thing very often, whatever.

You've always been one to tag others with distinct labels, (admittedly I'm guilty of that somewhat, but not anywhere near the level you take it to) so you might want to understand the difference between progressivism and liberalism (21st century) before touting economic philosophy regarding such. Hope I didn't sound too uppity. :)

"You asked for an example of the argument on the other side and I gave it."

Not to be confused with your personal thoughts, which in the past have mirrored your "example".

I certainly can't speak for all Libs or Progs, but I will say if your idea of "butting in" on the economy is to have sensible regulatory reform so as to not repeat the mistakes of our very recent past which brought America to it's financial knees then yes, I'm all for a big fat ass getting in the way of corporate greed that would turn our country into a plutocracy/corporatocracy. I believe most Americans are.

"I guess I’ve said this about a thousand times now."

Maybe it's the way you're saying it. Dysarthria?

http://livingwithdysarthria.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/ways-to-improve-speech-intelligibility/

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 7:51 p.m.

I was sure you'd think that was pure socialism. ;)

I just don't know you anymore!

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, Nails, you have done it now. Brought tears to Roger's eyes, told kn where, hm, yea, the sun don't shine, set Fro straight, you are on a roll! Keep it up.
Thanks ja jack, for the great blame list. Couldn't agree more. I put blame solidly on the Republicans this time around. Shutting down the gov, costing billions, so they dig in even more and act even dumber than they currently are. Nice bunch of losers.
ACA is the law. Get over it. Join modern civilization for once. Just once.
We got 20 minutes left. What a banana republic.

luvithere — September 30, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You've always been one to tag others with distinct labels, -- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:19 p.m

Examples of labels I’ve used?

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"The Government can only be "shut down" if BOTH sides refuse to give, how can any reasonable thinking person blame just one side?"

frobert — September 30, 2013 at 5:15 p.m.

Let's take your frological argument to another level, using your paradigm.

A democratic house refuses to fund government during a republican presidency, unless this republican president concedes to work with congress to raise corporate taxes by 90%, institute a planned parenthood office in every high school in the country, and place a statue of a naked Ron Paul holding hands with a naked Ronald Reagan, both depicted with extremely small penises, outside every state capital in the nation.

"The Government can only be "shut down" if BOTH sides refuse to give, how can any reasonable thinking person blame just one side?"

frologic

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

(I'm gonna hate myself in the morning)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, please, the visuals. ,!!!! LOL

luvithere — September 30, 2013 at 8:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


With few exceptions, I can't recall throwing around the hypocrite thing very often, whatever. --nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:19 p.m

In the 3+ years that I’ve been around here, I don’t believe I ever called anyone a hypocrite. I’ve used this word in your case just now, to point out the issue of two sides of the same coin. Not Apples and Oranges as you seem to think.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"...set Fro straight..."

Done I think. And you didn't even have to ask. :)

luvithere — September 30, 2013 at 8:45 p.m.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.

Yeah...looks like another shutdown. Political devastation for the right. At least there's a silver lining! :)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 8:54 p.m.

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:54 p.m.

Multiples!!! AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

(you're not capable of conceiving I hope)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal



Nails, please, the visuals. ,!!!! LOL -- luvithere — September 30, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.

luvithere, I've tried to be nice to you but I must insist - QUIT INSULTING NAIL!

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Multiples!!! AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

(you're not capable of conceiving I hope)

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 8:57 p.m

OM!! Tell me it isn't so! Eyes are bleeding, fingers stuck in ears singing lalalalalalalalalalal ;)

ELISI — September 30, 2013 at 9:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


So nail. Just what labels do I use? Hmmm? Or is this just a thing where it's OK for you to use words like Conservative, Progressive et al, but it I use those same words, then It's demeaningly referred to as a label? Yes I think so.

I've asked for examples from you of my labeling. No need to go back over past posts. It wouldn't do you any good anyway. Just tell me what you're talking about.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — September 30, 2013 at 9:09 p.m.

Care to elaborate? My fingers are in front of me so, I'm all ears.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I've asked for examples from you of my labeling. No need to go back over past posts."

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:13 p.m.

1. I'm still reeling from our previous encounters to focus on that, but I'll try soon. At this point, I'm no longer drinking, not smoking pot, and already have had dinner. Back in the day I would've downed a shot, more recently fired up a bowl, and went to the nearest donut shop to try and forget & forgive myself.

I feel like a puppy with no place to pee.

2. No need to add to my angst by reading your prior posts. Losing time I'll never get back is one thing, self-flagellation is another. :)

"Just tell me what you're talking about."

Okay. I think I can do this. I'm still a little shaky but here goes.

In context: "You've always been one to tag others with distinct labels, (admittedly I'm guilty of that somewhat, but not anywhere near the level you take it to) so you might want to understand the difference between progressivism and liberalism (21st century) before touting economic philosophy regarding such."

I was speaking of political labeling, and I admitted I did the same to a lesser degree. But almost every time you dialogue, about anything, you determine the nature of the argument by either branding the discussion or the person with a targeted label. That's about it. Whew!

ELISI — September 30, 2013 at 9:09 p.m.

Care to elaborate? My fingers are in front of me so, I'm all ears.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:28 p.m.

I couldn't even come up with something that sick. Bravo!

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 9:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 9:28 p.m

Something my kids used to say..

eyes bleeding = looking at something nasty, like a way over weight female in spandex and stomach shirt or a guy in too tight pants that shows his junk.

fingers in ears singing lalalalalalal = not wanting to hear what is said

ELISI — September 30, 2013 at 10:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


///Devin Nunes Calls GOP Colleagues 'Lemmings With Suicide Vests' As Shutdown Looms///

Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) sharply criticized his fellow House Republicans on Monday, saying it's "moronic" for them to let the government shut down over their opposition to Obamacare and calling them "lemmings with suicide vests."

“They have to be more than just a lemming," he said. "Because jumping to your death is not enough."

Nunes slammed his colleagues for their divisive approach, accusing House Republicans of creating an "us versus them" mentality.

“You have this group saying somehow if you’re not with them, you’re with Obamacare. If you’re not with their plan — exactly what they want to do -- you’re with Obamacare. It’s getting a little old,” he said.

Nunes supports House Republicans' latest offer, which aims to avert a government shutdown while delaying the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate for a year.

When asked earlier on Monday whether the House would pass a "clean" funding bill before the midnight deadline, averting a government shutdown without incorporating any Obamacare provisions, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said, "That's not going to happen."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/devin-nunes-government-shutdown_n_4019531.html

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm still reeling from our previous encounters to focus on that, but I'll try soon. At this point, I'm no longer drinking, not smoking pot, and already have had dinner. Back in the day I would've downed a shot, more recently fired up a bowl, and went to the nearest donut shop to try and forget & forgive myself. -- nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 9:39 p.m.

My questions are simple. Your post says nothing whatever to address my simple questions. I’ve asked what labels I have used and how that might differ from your own labels. “Labels”, if you will. Label’s which I think of in both cases; as descriptions. Definitions. And now I will use for the second time ever in this forum the word hypocrite, nail.

You know nail, It’s been pretty obvious to me that there has been something going on with you for a long time. We all have our own political ideas, and politics is nasty. It’s been around two and a half years ago since you first came on here, and back then you would quite literally post sometimes 25 times a day, on a daily basis. They were nearly all about how much you hated GWB. And Republicans. And then Christians and then came Mormans with the Romney candidacy. And so frequently supporting your comments by linking to opinions by other Leftists on Leftist’s blogs. Aside from that, I have sometimes called your own comments as seemingly “gibberish”. I’ve always thought that there’s a reason for that. I have also noted a couple of times in the last couple of months how you seem a little different now. And of course there's a reason for that. If you think that I'm being oh soooo superior in this; I am not. Nope.

In no way do I begrudge you for your drug use. I have never walked a mile in anyone else’s shoes. That’s my personal mantra which informs my political ideas. Which also includes keeping my hands out of others pockets.

kn_dalai — September 30, 2013 at 11:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Your post says nothing whatever to address my simple questions. I’ve asked what labels I have used and how that might differ from your own labels. “Labels”, if you will. Label’s which I think of in both cases; as descriptions. Definitions."

Take a breath. Relax. Put those fingers to rest, and use those ears of yours in a respectable manner.

I did address your question of "labels". I laid claim to doing the same, but with less intensity, and even provided context as example.

"I was speaking of political labeling, and I admitted I did the same to a lesser degree. But almost every time you dialogue, about anything, you determine the nature of the argument by either branding the discussion or the person with a targeted label."

nailingit — September 30, 2013 at 9:39 p.m.

You seem too smart not to understand a few written words that address this. I can only takeaway you're using this moment as a springboard to go off topic, in order to demean and mischaracterize me and previous postings of mine. Slow day/nite?

"They were nearly all about how much you hated GWB. And Republicans. And then Christians and then came Mormans with the Romney candidacy."

I have never stated, nor have I ever felt, a hate towards Bush, Republicans, Christians or Mormons. As a side note; I have close friends and family members who represent all of the above. I have expressed repeatedly my disdain for the infusion of religion into our political sphere, as well as extreme distaste for the policies/idiocies of Dubya. (man I hate that guy..oops!)

But you know this. In case you don't know, (or selectively forget) [[[[[please feel free to copy and paste my so-called quotes regarding hate. The forum archives provide you with all you need knd. Please, have at it. Where's the beef? Seriously, you know your way around a keyboard, please back up your harsh accusations with evidence.]]]]]

"I’ve always thought that there’s a reason for that. I have also noted a couple of times in the last couple of months how you seem a little different now. And of course there's a reason for that. If you think that I'm being oh soooo superior in this; I am not. Nope.

In no way do I begrudge you for your drug use."

That's mighty sporting of you. And I certainly don't begrudge you for meeting any medicinal needs you might have. Glad we're on the same page with that......

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


That's quite a world you live in knd, I'll say that! :) I kid around about not ingesting a legal medication for a few days, and you would think my whole life has changed because of a lack of "drug use". Not the first time you've used this tactic. At the end of the day, when you're not able to support your arguments, is when this type of knd wrangling occurs. This is quite interesting, and does provide a window into your opaque like thinking, but a window I find disheartening to look through. I expect more from folks than this. An idealist? Maybe.

"That’s my personal mantra which informs my political ideas. Which also includes keeping my hands out of others pockets."

Sounds like you're too busy shooting pool anyway.

But alas, once again, proudly behind the eight ball.

"And now I will use for the second time ever in this forum the word hypocrite, nail."

I'm devastated.

___

As a side note, it's understandable why many don't share their personal goings on in this format. (I tend not to and this is why) There is always someone who will use it in a feeble attempt to dehumanize & break someone's spirit.

Casting pearls before swine comes to mind.

Hope I didn't sound to piggish.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:24 a.m.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:24 a.m.

I takin' a shower.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


anyone else notice how the posts in the basement are as predictable as the hours of daylight?

there really isn't anything new under the sun. there's just repetition of patterns.

DeeLittle — October 1, 2013 at 3:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: What will today look like for you, as a Federal employee?

manthou — October 1, 2013 at 5:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Furloughs for federal employees start today. I get to go to work (paid) and sit on my butt for 4 hours listening to a VTC of someone talking a bunch of stuff we've heard a hundred times before, sign some paperwork, and just generally stand around doing nothing useful. I think I'll swing by Safeway on the way in and get some doughnuts. Might as well make the morning complete. Damn - If I had some weed - No... We'd probably raise a few eyebrows over laughing at the ridiculousness of it all.

Military retirees get kicked out of TRICARE Prime (the "gold" version of TRICARE) today. Those of us who live over 40 miles from a military base, that is. It went through the court system and was approved, but I've yet to see the logic behind a decision based on how close one lives to an Active Duty medical facility. Those retirees living up in Lacey are STILL going to go to their doctor in town, yet Sam will pay more of the cost than for us down here in Vancouver. Whatever.

Interesting. On a facebook page for people from a town in PA I'm a member of, one of my old friends made a comment about the shutdown, and the conversation eventually swung to the ACA. (My only input was an earlier short discussion with someone about the impact of stopping the $75-85 bil per month spent by the Fed buying T-bills, and the value of money based on nothing tangible.) Anyhow, several of the younger crowd were all quite adamant that they thought the ACA sucks, and they have no intention of buying the insurance. This is in a town that was killed economically when the factories all shut down; selling heroin may be the most lucrative job there these days. You'd think they'd want subsidized health care. Whatever.

In spite of this - It's nice to be alive.

p.s. - Kn_dalai. The video was something I ran across that I thought Nails would enjoy. It's nice to share our discoveries - same principle as buying gifts we hope the recipient likes.

roger — October 1, 2013 at 5:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Gee. I was typing when you asked. Did I answer the mail?

I was liking the "new" ReCAPTCHA with the numbers; I've always been able to see and retain fairly long strings. Now they're back to goofy letters and I'm back to having my guesses kicked back. Oh well.

roger — October 1, 2013 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Cool, so get to live in a banana republic today. Exciting!
Why do I Think of Italy where the gov breaks down on a regular basis? And the rest of Europe chuckles as always?
Do congress folks get their pay?
Do they get their nice health insurance?
How does Jamie feel this morning?
Could I stop our mortgage payments? I mean, why do we pay when the gov doesn't?
Should I stop work today?

Have they lost their little minds?

luvithere — October 1, 2013 at 6:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It gets pretty hot here the ol' kitchen.

The old adage comes to mind. What I find very interesting is that the labeling and name calling hasn't changed. Some of us come loaded for bear when all we do is shoot flys. I have seen some interesting comments about our state of the congress and their reluctance to compromise. A lot of blame is being assigned all across our country. Both sides pointing crooked fingers at each with righteous indignation.

Our only weapon is the vote. Right now I bet that some of us are seriously considering why the hell did we voted the way we did. The information given us leading up to the elections was sometimes disingenuous at best. Lies comes to mind. Promise them the moon etc. If roosters come home to roost then some of them should be out of a job.

Some politicians claim they're tell us the truth. If that were true the country would be better off rather than be in the mess we are in right now. Some try to sell us a made up pig but as I have always said that the pig has hair by clorox and makeup by crayola.

We as a community should require that all candidates should have no skeletons in their closet and squeak when they walk and talk. Try as we might we seem to fail at this task. I know we all try to make the best choice as we see it. What has failed is the candidates reluctance to act on behalf of the voters that put them there. They let us, you and me, down They are seriously seduced by the pageantry of it all. The scratch my back and I'll scratch yours and backroom shenanigans just goes on and on. However long it takes when both sides agree they will tell us it was for the best. Heard it before and we will hear it again. We will wipe our collective foreheads and say wow they saved us from ourselves again.

JohnCasey — October 1, 2013 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Good post, JohnCasey. It is my opinion that our government has gotten far too big for its financial britches. All the political correctness and needs for rules, articles of law, services for this or that because the people want the convenience of the government doing everything for us and the fact that the credit industry we'd developed has inadvertently disabled the US dollar and the US economy...

It's no wonder our government has yet again administered a partial shutdown...their only answer to a roadblock in Congress. They can't ever get things right. No matter who we vote for, it's always the same result. Impasse, debt and frustration.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Why do I Think of Italy where the gov breaks down on a regular basis?"

luvithere — October 1, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.

Because their sanitation workers are constantly striking? :)

___

On another note, if anyone feels like throwing spitballs at me today, give me a break.

If I ever had reservations about my commenting being too tongue-in-cheek, light-hearted or silly, they were erased with the winds of ugliness.

Always good to keep it light & upbeat to a point, and never forget our place in the world. Keeping in mind, the fellow human beings we converse with.

amen

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 1, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.

Holymolehill, you just can't go a day without a little dig at me, can you. You constantly make an accusation that I change with the wind...

So what if I change my mind once in a blue moon??? Have you ever thought for one second that when I make a statement on here, it's to generate discussion so that I can see both sides of the tracks in politics? Others can see that, why can't you???

Life is ever evolving and that the one-track mind is a failure waiting to happen. Have you ever seen what happens when two trains are going in opposite directions on one track?

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.

Eee gads...my post came in the same time as yours!!! Okay...okay...goldie, compose yourself. Say it three times - You are not Nails. You are not Nails. You are not Nails (clicking heels three times). Phew...close one!!! 8))

Nails...sometimes your comments just happen to "nail it" just at the point in a heated discussion (your avatar fits you...and I mean that nicely) and it's a lot different than talking face to face with each other. Some of the message definitely gets lost...especially with the limited space in trying to prove the point on these comment boxes. Speaking for myself...when I truly believe in what I'm stating and someone comes along and "bursts the bubble" with a bit of sarcasm or genuine opposition...those little accusatory comments fly, not only from one direction but from both. I guess it's human nature or something.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Take the graft out of politics, and at the end of the day you’re still left with people who have to make decisions for everyone. Whatever decisions they make are going to be disgusting to some group or another, and they’re going to hear about it. Seems to me that the divide in politics at all levels is a pretty good reflection of the divide in the thoughts of the population. Which is all about what the role of government is. There's no magic bulltet. The more government takes on, the worse politics gets.

kn_dalai — October 1, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.

How do you think I feel? I postgasmed myself at 12:24 before retiring last night, and my first post this morning was conjoined with yours.

I feel like a JC Penny card after a white sale.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 1, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.

Go back and read my post to JohnCasey again, holycorpuscles. In no way was I stating all the problems but the number one problem which has our government in the situation it is in today is because of uncontrolled spending habits...and we're the ones who have voted these opportunists into government. Some, I believe hadn't a clue when they began but it has developed into something totally unrecognizable from the day the US Constitution was signed into law. Unfortunately for the people, those in government have learned the ropes of the secret society they live within political office and they've learned it well, utilizing their political power for personal gain rather than the overall picture. Now I'm not starting up a conspiracy theory, here. I just label it the "secret society" because it's the way things are done once a politician is in office...hence Madore's obvious revelation of dirty politics at C-Tran and your obvious disdain for the hiring of Benton at the county level. I agree with you regarding special interests. That's a key issue which has metastasized for far too long.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 8:32 a.m.

Hilarious!!!

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 1, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.

Holymolar, fear not. I do not support KJ Hinton's POV. I believe Steve Stuart made a decision based on...at the time I believe, he thought was the right decision. I just don't agree with his decision. Sometimes, people have to realize...we're only human. County Commissioners/C-Tran Board of Director members are not superhuman and they make mistakes as we all do. We learn by our mistakes and move on.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You know HC, this Hinton guy sounds a lot like you.

kn_dalai — October 1, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holysmokes, Hinton didn't make any visible threats. He's quite vocal, that's true...but still I don't see any threats in his comments. The police can't do much about it unless he starts making threats against Commissioner Stuart's life. It's what goes on behind the scenes that a person has to be more watchful. I'm sure Stuart is fully aware of that.

goldenoldie — October 1, 2013 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And here I thought that other RW blogger, Lou Walters, was a little out control when, just after the Coast Guard approved the CRC submission, he began calling those involved "Communist scum."

JohnK — October 1, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


(Tea Party-a category KJ & Waters own)

A disapproval rating of 87%. Stunning...

///Congress, tea party hit all-time low in CNN polling///

According to the survey, just 10% of Americans say they approve of the job Congress is doing, an all-time low in a CNN poll. And 87% say they disapprove of the job federal lawmakers are doing, higher than it's ever been in CNN polling.

The 10% approval rating in the new CNN survey, which was conducted Friday through Sunday, is down 10 percentage points from CNN's previous survey at the beginning of the month. The 87% disapproval rating is a jump of nine points from the first week in September.

While Americans' perception of the job Congress is doing has taken a hit, President Barack Obama's approval rating -- well under 50% -- has remained steady since earlier in the month.

Forty-four percent of those questioned say they approve of the job Obama's doing as president, with 53% giving him a thumbs down. Those numbers are basically unchanged from the 45%-52% approval/disapproval rating in CNN's previous survey.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/cnn-poll-congress-approval/

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


^^^And just to add...this poll was taken before the shutdown!

Is it possible Congress can enter the minus column?

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 9:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Each week the government is shut down, quarterly economic growth will be reduced by just 0.1 percentage points, But not raisning the debt ceiling would result in an immeadiate cut of 4% of the GDP..Or similar to the Fiscal Cliff. Also in 95 after january stocks rose by 10.5%..
In addition in 95 Clinton found true Love or at least he thought he did, with extra time on his hands he met Monica Lewinsky... Our president at the moment likes Golf more than than other side. maybe he has something stashed away at the golf course to take his mind off our countries more pressing matters.. The major difference bewteen today and 95 is that our current leader has never reached out to the other party to get any meaningful legislation passed. Clinton at least knew he coulnd't win the war without help from Gingrich. Now O bama has cemmented his place in history, oh wait we still have the debt ceiling, no other president has hurt this country more than he did in 2011 ... By the lowering of our credit rating. 17 trillion in debt now and growing and growing... It is a card he can nor can any of of kids ever payback...

By the way after reading about the washington health exchange in todays rag.. The columbian reports you have till March 31 fo coverage through the exchange, what they don't tell you is you have till Dec 23 to be insured Jan 1,2014.. Next deadline is March 31st.. If you miss a payment or end up not paying you have a 90 day you'll have to wait till Oct 2014 period to try again...

Has anyone tried accessing our Washington Insurance Exchange, It's in capatability mode for the week as they are expieriencing technical difficulties as has been the case around the country.. I I was going to roll something our like a this new Maserati, wouldn't you think you would have it nutted...So I was also talking with my son in law last night and asked him if he was going to sign up, I think typical of todays youth he had no clue as to the cost or alternative.. So we went to the Exchange website poped in his age and income and to his surprise, I can't afford that..He then asked if what if we had a kid, it was $100 bucks less a month but still out of his price range.. He works in Oregon and his employer at this time does not offer health care but the employer does have 300 employees so I'm thinking they will be on Obamacare come next year.. I wonder how many employees his employer will let go.. I'm thinking a few...

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Choices not Chance, Determines your destiny..

Aristotle

The President has made his bed now he will have to live with his deisions..

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One would think government would be running smoother with less government.. Both Oregon and Washington Exchanges are down... I guess they have been overcome with so many people wanting to sign up..

Straight off the Press LA TIMES LIBERAL RAG
California keeping things wierd, so SAD

Quote of the day by Senator Dianne Feinstein

Whoa! Even the LA Times can get it right -- sometimes!!

Quote of the day by Senator Dianne Feinstein:

Dianne Feinstein: "All vets are mentally ill in some way and the government should
prevent them from owning firearms."

Yep, - she really said it on Thursday in a meeting in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and the quote
below from the LA Times is priceless. Sometimes even the L.A. Times gets it right.

Kurt Nimmo from the Los Angeles Times:
"Senator Feinstein insults all US. Veterans as she flays about in a vain attempt to save her anti-firearms bill."
"Frankly, I don't know what it is about California, but we seem to have a strange urge to elect really
obnoxious women to high office. I'm not bragging, you understand, but no other state, including Maine,
even comes close. When it comes to sending left-wing dingbats to Washington, we're Number One.
There's no getting around the fact that the last time anyone saw the likes of Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein,
Maxine Waters, and Nancy Pelosi, they were stirring a cauldron when the curtain went up on 'Macbeth."
"The four of them are like jackasses who happen to possess the gift of blab. You don't know if you
should condemn them for their stupidity or simply marvel at their ability to form words."
- Columnist Burt Prelutsky

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Some of us have recognized and stated this for quite awhile. Many on the elected right have no intent on governing, just torching the concept and the institution. Voters will remember this in 2014.

///Rachel Maddow On Shutdown: 'Elect Republicans And They Will Burn The Place Down' (VIDEO)///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/rachel-maddow-shutdown-republicans_n_4021809.html?utm_hp_ref=media

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Straight off the Press LA TIMES LIBERAL RAG

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.

Would you please provide a direct link to the LA Times article which you are referring to?

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Never mind vanwa, I found what I was looking for.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/feinstein.asp

At some point, you might want to fact check before believing everything the right wing bubble produces. (quite literally the definition of a lemming) You seem to buy into anything that is hate Obama/Democrats. In this case, it's a falsehood 6 months old.

Many on the right refuse to understand, that repeating falsehoods, sooner than later, catches up to them. Hurting their cause rather than helping it.

Fortunately, it's a cause worthy of a waste basket.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MKAY, left leaning Lemmings fall off the cliff

Rep will pick up 4-6 seats in the house and 1-2 in the senate come 14" Watch out, especially if Obama stumps for those dems///

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:08 p.m.

You can't convince vanwa of anything, your name isn't Rush or Beck.

HC, about the captcha, I've been hitting the "redo" button and it's been giving me numbers that are pretty easy to repeat.

Except for this time, of course.

hawkeye — October 1, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 1, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.

Even when lies are exposed, he doesn't retract. He just keeps on going. One doesn't have to look very far to gain understanding of the many problems we face in politics today. Seemingly a character deficit has taken over.

Which brings me to this...

(basement dwellers-this post is for kn_dalai-I certainly don't mean to buy into a negative flow as in last night-but right is right-wrong is wrong-I've never been one to get out of the ring-especially when sucker punched) It's a slow day anyway...

knd- A good part of the day has come & gone. The echo chamber remains silent...

{{{ "It’s been around two and a half years ago since you first came on here, and back then you would quite literally post sometimes 25 times a day, on a daily basis. They were nearly all about how much you hated GWB. And Republicans. And then Christians and then came Mormans with the Romney candidacy."

[[[[[please feel free to copy and paste my so-called quotes regarding hate. The forum archives provide you with all you need knd. Please, have at it. Where's the beef? Seriously, you know your way around a keyboard, please back up your harsh accusations with evidence.]]]]] }}}

...evidently for good reason.

Not sure if I post more or less than others. Considering this is the only forum I post in. It makes no dif anyway, except to address an implication you're seemingly unable to articulate. (as you've criticized my "multitudinous" posts in the past)

Let's take a look at your accusations, a little bit closer. (I've always had a head for numbers) and not just the smokin' kind. ;)

I won't use your average of 25 posts a day over two and a half years, and your "nearly all" scenario to prove my point. Of course, as with many of your posts (when you run off at the mouth), it's too absurd.

But given context, citing your 2 and a half years scenario is reasonable. Because as with much, your number of how long I've been posting to this forum is wrong. Much more accurate to say 3 and half years. So two and a half years of alleged hate filled posts seems reasonable. (time to push some pencil & paper:)

But let's fudge the numbers in your favor. Extremely. {:O

Because at 25 a day for two and a half years...posts amount to (according to my numbers, please correct me if I'm wrong-and to round it) 22,800 posts. Of course your "nearly all" places my hate posts at what, around 20,000?

So let's cut your finger pointing down 90%. 10% of my alleged hate posts would bring it in at 2000 hate posts over a 2 and a half year span.

Should be more than easy to verify your accusations...

Let me go even further to help you out on this.

Let's go 1%. 1% of my posts are hate filled posts against Mormons, Bush & whoever else you were talking about.

1% of 20000 is 200.

((See if you can stay with this knd, while I make another wordy post to finish this up. Focus.))

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


200 hate filled posts should be easy to find. After all, they are readily available at those busy fingertips of yours. I've given you a 99% break on your numbers. A [[[99%]]] break.....

How about if I dropped it to 0.5%...................................

knd- It's one thing to pull falsehoods out of thin air in order to demean someone, it's another to be absolutely and knowingly dishonest. At least try and be in the ballpark, or universe for that matter when you make these types of claims. It speaks volumes to character and integrity in this forum when you come undone in this fashion.

Five or six weeks ago a well thought poster called you out for your mean spirited bullying tactics, and compared your style of posting to that of HC. I believe the word intimidation was used. I would take exception to that. At least HC, brash as the cat is, seems to be well meaning and appreciates fair play. You're more like a literate vanwa, except wordier. You reach the height of your frustration when you come across someone you can't bully.

I'll wait a few days (as well as remind you daily) and see what you come up with, then I'll drop it. In dropping it, I'm setting an example, as well as a precedent for you. Run with it. The next time you harangue a forum poster to answer one of your questions, as you have a tendency to do, remember this failure of yours. (I'll be sure and remind you of this as well, when and if you continue to choose this path of .. haranguing.

Surely you'll try and prove your point. Because if I know nothing else, I know how extremely important it is for you to be taken, oh-so-seriously.

Even in this format.

Just devastated.....still trying to pull my self together......;}

___

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk,

It's nort about convincing it's about whats right... I couldn't convince you either ecept I Love my beloved Quakers..Go Ducks....On the Political scene neither party working together, I get that. There all a bunch of WE.. But the president brought this on.. If you don't think OC is not good for the country as a whole , You are just a bit Nieve... Bottom line.. I'm in business and this policy will hurt all businesses.. And what about the personal mandate.. Good luck.. Keep all your heads burried. Respectfully Sir.

vanwadreamer — October 1, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nailingit I wouldn't say your posts are hateful. I think you are just very dedicated to how you feel. Nothing wrong with that. I have been reading your posts for a couple of years now,your's along with everyone else's. I feel like I learned a lot from seeing both sides of some questions. That is a good thing. Don't get me wrong I still would not vote for Obama,Moeller,Cleveland or Wyile. But I have added Benton to that list. Although I didn't care for him to much before. Before you pat yourself on the back to much for creating a left leaning convert, I still remain more to the middle. And I still get a kick out listening to Lars on most days. I suppose because I have a hard time believing that people will let him rip them like he does. I listen more for the comedy entertainment value. I say keep up the good works.

timerick — October 1, 2013 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks timerick. Some folks are so ideologically bent, they'll say anything and everything. Some have personal issues that go much deeper than the political spectrum. Much darker as well.

Glad you're hanging in the middle, and glad you added Benton. It's his very own actions that are changing minds. (with an assist from M&M; of course:)

I have been meaning to ask you something. Will ObamaCare affect you much? As far as employee work coverage and such? Have you heard anything about your fellow business owners in your area being hurt from the exchanges going online today?

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I might add I'm certainly no angel at times when it comes to posting. I can be as snarky as hell, but not one to instigate.

Snark for snark, I'll go toe to toe with anyone. :))) Just not my favorite thing to do.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't think the ACA will effect me to much. About 10 years ago I gave my guys a 3.00$ an hour raise to cover their health insurance. I used to handle it myself but it got to be to much paper work and if they went on individual accounts on their own it was cheaper for them. I did line up a broker for them. A couple of them did sign up for insurance but dropped it after a few years. I have been keeping them informed on the new changes but I don't think they have paid to much attention. It most likely will be a big change for them. Most of my friends that own a business have at least 6 employee's some 25 or more. I really don't know what they are going to do. A couple use Kaiser and I don't think that will change much. A couple of others have recieved letters from their carriers that they will no longer insure in Washington. I don't know what they are going to do. My wife got a letter from our carrier that they are dropping her the 30th of December. But she goes on Medicare on the 8th of December. I guess we all will have to see how this will all work out. I wish they would have set it up more like Medicare. The program was already in place and might have been less costly and more efficent. I am not to keen on letting the IRS be involved in this. I don't trust them to much. Also we did do a job for BPA today and they weren't shut down. They must be what they call a critical department?

timerick — October 1, 2013 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — October 1, 2013 at 6:01 p.m.

Thanks for laying that out. You sound like a great guy to work for. It might just be a matter of time before it is set up like Medicare.

Not being denied for pre-existing conditions in and of itself is a huge deal for countless people. Some of the larger carriers aren't liking this much, as it cuts a smidgon into their already massive profit margin.

Yes time will tell on this. It's unfortunate many politicians on the right are rooting for it's failure. It just seems so...un american.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 6:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


HC- Just switched and am enjoying the public commentary. It's reminding me how infused comedy & tragedy are in everyday life. Pollard up to bat!

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 6:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


AAAHH! My wife just busted me watching it! She wants better entertainment. Can't blame her!

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 6:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick, my wife used to say 'why do you listen to that idiot Lars Larson anyway.' I told her the same thing. It is funny to listen to him. He sometimes gets it right but for the most part he is highly entertaining when I'm driving around all the road freaks. She started to listen and soon was laughing right along side of me. It calms me down and I'm not so libel to stop someone and huff their keys like I did in the old days. She was with me one time when I did that.

Last winter I had commented on moving out of the area. My kids are grown and my grand children seem to be on the right track. They can come and visit me whenever they want. Since my wife passed away in March I've been thinking that the beach is the best place for me to be. I am going down there to look for a place that will remind me of the fun we had down there. Mostly around the Tillamook to Manzanita area. I won't be joining the yuppies though. I have an in though. My wayward sister in law lives down there and I can stay as long as I like. Plus she's had one of my dogs for 5 years. I rarely get to see him. Kinda miss the old fool.

I will miss this area though. Vancouver has been my home for 37 years. We moved here when I found a job. Ironic isn't it? This will be the first weekend going to the beach by myself in over 45 years. Gonna be a little different I would say.

JohnCasey — October 1, 2013 at 6:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


knd- Still waiting on those 200 posts fella. Get those those fingers busy on something constructive and back up your accusations.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 7:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I just realized that guy with the blue shirt and anger management issues, who stopped just short of threatening Comm Stuart with physical harm ('you wanna do this the hard way or the easy way." was one of the honchos in the Clark Co Republicans.

Not good....

JohnK — October 1, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — October 1, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

Sorry for your loss John. I hope you find the perfect fit.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


rapper,

Actually, Johnny Lydon "sold out" two year before that video, when the group went on their Filthy Lucre tour. As he says in the interview, they're all grown up, have mortgages to pay and families to raise, and they needed the money. Fortunately, the tour was a smashing success (much to the chagrin, I'm sure, of all the "experts" who expected them to bomb) - This allowed Johnny Lydon to once again adopt the Johnny Rotten personae that his fans love and the rest of the world detests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRwdLaDkMOQ

roger — October 1, 2013 at 7:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK: That was Christian Berrigan, Tea Party darling. Google him.

I got the same feeling you did: he claimed that citizens will turn to "other" means when they do not feel heard. Then I stopped breathing a minute, half expecting him to pull out a handgun. He is a powder keg of pent-up anger.

manthou — October 1, 2013 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh, Jeez. Debbie Peterson is crying so hard she cannot talk.

manthou — October 1, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Gov Kitz's world is crumbling - His one day special session is now heading toward Day 3, Per The Oregonian, seasoned observers saw the day of delays as a sign of trouble. "The longer it goes, the less likely it is that we have a deal," said Alan Tresidder, a Salem lobbyist.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/more_delays_plague_oregon_legi.html#incart_river

Meanwhile, the CRC is now off the table for the special session. Gov Kitz would have to call them back again; something that will be increasingly unpopular with the legislators the longer this session drags on. Per the article, it seems some of those who voted for 2280 (which is now expired) aren't so sure they'll support the go it alone plan.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/crc_off_the_table_for_now_face.html#incart_river

And Willamette Week was nice enough to run an article pointing out just how unlikely it is that Oregon will get the entire funding amounts they need from the Federal government. The Tappan Zee project had their request cut from one half the total cost to one third.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30750-new_york_bridge_project_shows_potential_crc_risks.html

roger — October 1, 2013 at 7:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasy so sorry for your loss. I hope your dog gets to know you again. I spent a lot of time in Tillamoook. My father was raised there. There is a bed and breakfast on Whiskey Creek. that was my grandfathers house and where my father was raised. My mother was raised in Nescowin. Lots of memories for me. I wish you the best.

timerick — October 1, 2013 at 8:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Read the second half of your Snopes reference on Feinstein's comments on the assault weapons ban. She is catching hell from some corners, as she bases her justification for removing the retired military exemption on the premise that they might have PTSD, and that this is something new from the Iraqi war. I guess she never heard of battle fatigue. Those old boys who were in Korea can tell some stories.... Anyhow, I guess she's also completely unaware of the fact that one of the larger groups of military memorabilia (to include weapons) traders in the country is in southern Virginia and North Carolina. And they've been at it for years. There's an old Marine there who's a licensed dealer; I've sold stuff I've acquired to him since the '80s.

roger — October 1, 2013 at 8:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey Nails!!! Your favorite, Huff Post, says Sarah Palin is right!

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/archive/segment/unflippingbelievable-sarah-palin-slams-goverment/521775f678c90a0e8e0006b6

roger — October 1, 2013 at 8:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey — October 1, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

There are no words, really. I've tried a few times to express how your post hit me. Can't. Would like to say thanks for sharing your loss with us. And for giving this 'basement' a moment of real clarity about what is true and good and sad and also absolutely solid in life. Please accept my symphathy, and hopfully the ocean gives some solace as you decide where to live.

jacjak — October 1, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


John Casey - Hope things turn out well for you. Make sure you "drop in" once in a while and let us know how you're doing.

roger — October 1, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 1, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.

It's hard for me to tell if Feinstein's comments about PTSD being new (in context) isn't referring to the new cases (and phrasing) from our current conflicts since the ban expired. She's pretty savvy and has been around the block a few times. I'm in no way trying to let her off the hook. Her comment has done some good in that it's brought attention to the subject.

Personally, with few exceptions, I'm more than comfortable with my fellow Americans who were propped up as "cannon fodder" (great line from the Chaplin vid) to protect our country owning firearms. I say few exceptions, because at a point in time I was privy to more than a few soldiers criminal activities. Having said that, the military is just a microcosm of society. I don't want violent, proven unstable civilians with bad history having legal weapons priviliges either. (if they live next door, who does?) Unless they've paid their debt to society and demostrate from from a an objective psych eval/something comparable, they're not going to shoot up a school or something. It's touchy ground for sure. Very touchy. There's some room for flexible thinking..

I don't know how others feel about ex-felons with a violent past and guns, (to include soldiers who have served their time) but I feel once you've paid your debt to society you're done. (again with few exceptions) Ex-felons should have their voting rights restored also imo. Most of us are outside looking in on these issues.

I'm sure Feinstein's a bit gun shy due to her late seventies closeness with the Milk/Moscone assassinations. And to bring this full circle, her quote was within a few months of the Sandy Hook massacre. (and she's 80 years old)

vanwa's post addressed nothing truthful, and went out of it's way to demean left leaning women in high office. A nasty ill tempered post I might add. That's why I called BS.

Once in awhile one can capture some insight into what others buy into, what they spend their time reading and absorbing. In this case...ugly stuff.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 9:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 1, 2013 at 8:28 p.m.

Props for Sarah.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You gotta love it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scv...

nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 11:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Vote summary: 264-164. Failed (required 2/3 majority).

This bill would have restored funding for American veterans' benefits. The 164 Democrats listed on this page don't think veterans' benefits are important enough to pay for.

Andrews
Bass
Beatty
Becerra
Bishop (GA)
Blumenauer
Bonamici
Brady (PA)
Brown (FL)
Brownley (CA)
Butterfield
Capps
Capuano
Cárdenas
Carney
Cartwright
Castor (FL)
Castro (TX)
Chu
Cicilline
Clarke
Clay
Cleaver
Clyburn
Cohen
Connolly
Conyers
Costa
Courtney
Crowley
Cuellar
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis, Danny
DeFazio
DeGette
Delaney
DeLauro
Deutch
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duckworth
Edwards
Ellison
Engel
Enyart
Eshoo
Esty
Farr
Fattah
Frankel (FL)
Fudge
Gabbard
Garamendi
Grayson
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Gutiérrez
Hahn
Hanabusa
Hastings (FL)
Higgins
Himes
Holt
Honda
Horsford
Hoyer
Huffman
Israel
Jackson Lee
Jeffries
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Kaptur
Kelly (IL)
Kennedy
Kildee
Kind
Kirkpatrick
Kuster
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee (CA)
Levin
Lewis
Lofgren
Lowenthal
Lowey
Lujan Grisham (NM)
Luján, Ben Ray (NM)
Maloney, Carolyn
Matsui
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McNerney
Meeks
Meng
Michaud
Miller, George
Moore
Moran
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Negrete McLeod
Nolan
O'Rourke
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor (AZ)
Payne
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Pingree (ME)
Pocan
Price (NC)
Quigley
Rahall
Rangel
Richmond
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Ryan (OH)
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sarbanes
Schakowsky
Schiff
Schwartz
Scott (VA)
Scott, David
Serrano
Sewell (AL)
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Sires
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Speier
Swalwell (CA)
Takano
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Titus
Tonko
Tsongas
Van Hollen
Vargas
Veasey
Vela
Velázquez
Visclosky
Walz
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watt
Waxman
Welch
Wilson (FL)
Yarmuth
Source: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll506.xml#N

ELISI — October 1, 2013 at 11:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone else want to handle the above post. (it gets tiring after awhile) I'm allergic to red herring when it's topped with partisan BS.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 12:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's more than sad, when either the left or the right uses our soldiers as props to push a political agenda.

Tammy Duckworth. One of the many Democrats ELISI claims "don't think veterans' benefits are important enough to pay for."

-In 2004, Duckworth was deployed to Iraq as a Blackhawk helicopter pilot for the Illinois Army National Guard. She was one of the first Army women to fly combat missions during Operation Iraqi Freedom until her helicopter was hit by an RPG on November 12, 2004. Duckworth lost her legs and partial use of her right arm in the explosion and was awarded a Purple Heart for her combat injuries.

Duckworth spent the next year recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. As one of the highest-ranking patients, she quickly became an advocate for her fellow Soldiers and testified before Congress about caring for our Veterans and wounded warriors.

Following her recovery, Duckworth ran for Congress in 2006. After a narrow loss, she became Director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs. In Illinois, she worked to create a tax credit for employers who hired Veterans, established a first-in-the-nation 24/7 crisis hotline for Veterans, and developed innovative programs to improve Veterans’ access to housing and health care.

In 2009, President Obama appointed Duckworth to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs. At VA, Duckworth led an initiative to end homelessness among Veterans. She created the Office of Online Communications to improve the VA’s accessibility, especially among young Veterans, and also worked to address the unique challenges that Native American and female Veterans face.

Duckworth ran for Congress in 2012 to advocate for the practical solutions and cooperation needed to rebuild our economy and ensure that every American has a chance to achieve the American Dream.-

http://duckworth.house.gov/about/full-biography

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 12:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, they wanted the shutdown. There you go, they got it. To now clamor for partial funding for some programs is IMO a pretty crappy ploy.
There, I said it.

luvithere — October 2, 2013 at 4:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal


David Madore's reluctance to work with the Humane Society of SW Washington: is it simply because its director, Stacey Graham, is a vocal and enthusiastic supporter of the CRC/LR?

Here is a great Q and A on its website, for those who care about how stray and abandoned animals are treated in Clark County. Vancouver is covered, thankfully, because they renewed their contract:

http://www.southwesthumane.org/letter-bccp-faq

manthou — October 2, 2013 at 5:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks for that tidbit on the Humane Society director, Manthou. That would explain a lot. He does like to punish those who disagree with his royal commands.

luvithere — October 2, 2013 at 6:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Ed Barnes is the "old guy" and it is Pollard, not Pollack, holyc.

manthou — October 2, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey, your wife never left your side. She is always with you in your heart. She is at peace and as far as I'm concerned, it's time you focus on yourself. For you and your move to Tillamook County, I can think of no better place for a destination point along the coast...and you'll be with family and your 4-legged friend. I wish you all the best in your transition. You'll be missed here on the forum. I hope you can peek in once in awhile and see what our misfits are saying...and maybe you'll respond as well.

Take care.

goldenoldie — October 2, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 12:40 a.m.

Please explain yourself. As far as I'm concerned, ELISI made a valid point. Should we deny veteran's benefits? They did by voting no. At least that's what it looks like.

goldenoldie — October 2, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyravioli...I see Oregon is second on the top of the list for the most registered sex offenders in their state. According to

http://www.statisticbrain.com/sex-offender-statistics/

Multnomah County leads the crowd:

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/09/sex_offenders_in_oregon_county.html

Doesn't it make you wonder just how many haven't registered or haven't been caught yet???

goldenoldie — October 2, 2013 at 8 a.m. ( | suggest removal


It's all pretty simple. Republicans are feeling the political heat that resulted from their attempt to shut the Government down and are now trying to save their butts and their bargaining position by releasing their hostages one at a time.

If they're serious about ending the shutdown, all they have to do is bring a clean resolution to a vote and stop allowing a minority of the majority (Hassert rule) to prevent a clean vote.

JohnK — October 2, 2013 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


HC Ed Barnes has been around a long time. He goes to city and county meetings and has for years. I believe he tries to keep them all honest. He most likely is a real pain to those that sit on the boards.

timerick — October 2, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holyc: The lady who is a frequent flyer at meetings is Sharon Nasset, a North Portland resident and oftime candidate for Portland City Council. She has not won so far, but she is tenacious. She has been advocating for a Westside bridge option to US 30 for years. I am amused that she spends so much time bending the ears of people here when the bridges seem to be controlled by Oregon, but have at it. Free speech and all.

Kind of like Carolyn Crain testifying at city council meetings when she lives outside the UGB.

I really don't care who testifies or how often they testify or what they say. The fact is: they are getting off their duff and giving feedback and exercising their first amendment rights. Problem is, when they show up and lecture the same tune over and over, people tend to stop listening.

I actually wanted to give Debbie Peterson a sympathetic hug last night. I felt the same way when Madore and Mielke installed Don Benton into that six figure salaried job.

This issue is so damn polarizing and painful. We are in crisis and the citizens are behaving like trauma victims. No one trusts anyone.

manthou — October 2, 2013 at 9:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


You guys realize this is the internet, right? That is, JohnCasey can access this forum from just about anywhere.

Enjoy your trip, J.C.!

Drift — October 2, 2013 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The best part of last night’s BOCC meeting was Mr. Madore’s closing statement. Think of a young Douglas MacArthur rallying 14th center Christians to fight the infidels to ensure the rights of the citizens of Clark County to vote on bus route timing.


JohnK — October 2, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Drift: Yeah. I wrote Madore this morning and pointed out the hypocrisy in his rallying-the-troops speech.

Many of us felt disenfranchised and unheard when he and Mielke gave their political buddy, Don Benton, a six figure job, ignoring Clark County HR policies and procedures.

When he does not get his way, he unleashes the demons of Hell. When life goes his way, he is all Christian love and warmth.

I fear he controls people by withholding positive regard and shaming and humiliating them when they don't do as he expects. I can smell that abusive technique on him a mile away.

manthou — October 2, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Wow people stop putting the blame game on one side or the other. It's the entire Governments problem not one party or another. They ALL need to come to a resolution. Don't spew the democratic or republican junk to me of what one or the other is doing right and wrong and why your point is more important. The people in the Government are so consumed with greed that they don't care what happens to anyone else. But what is sad is the people in the United States knew this was coming and knew this was bound to happen. I can't feel sorry for the one's who weren't prepared.

mxfun118 — October 2, 2013 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timrick,
You are right that your employees who got the raise but have not procured health insurance will now be in for a shocker. They have been spending that $3.00 an hour on other things and now they are faced with a bill they may not be able to afford. Plan administrators out there are there to help with the paperwork. Was it more cost effective to give your employees a $3 an hour increase or was the program you were on more cost efective for you? Have you checked out the Washington exchange to see what your costs might be?

vanwadreamer — October 2, 2013 at 10:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


mxfun: I know that many people echo your sentiments. However, I think you are succumbing to the "false equivalency" thinking error the press so loves to promote.

This is really about a to-the-death struggle between two factions in the Republican party.

They are doing their best to destroy each other, taking the government with them. If this battle winds up killing the debt ceiling lift, then they will hurt the world economy, too.

Infighting. Not outfighting.

If the moderate Republicans were in charge, we would have an accord by now.

Chris Matthews last night described it so well: The Dems and the Repubs traditionally move each other toward the middle in a tug-of-war analogy. That is the way it used to be.

Now, the Dems are left out of that internal Republican tug-of-war.

Just my thoughts on the mess.

manthou — October 2, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — October 2, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.

Already been nailed @

luvithere — October 2, 2013 at 4:57 a.m.

JohnK — October 2, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.

I would add those who are causing this shutdown in order to re-litigate the ACA, crafted this strategy (piecemeal popular public legislation) in order to stand back, point their collective fingers at Democrats, and cry crapola as ELISI did. Evidently these skewed optics are working on some.

After all, this whole thing is everyone's fault............right? ;)

Why not ask ELISI why she demonized war heroes like Tammy Duckworth, for not bending over for ..
[[[[[RRRIIINNNGGG]]]]]

.......... wait a minute, my timer went off. It's that time of day and I have something I need to post...

____

Day 2

kn_dalai — Hey Bub-What, no cheap shots? Still playing Snooker? Come on out. Or are you too busy sullying other forums with your sanctimonious snobbery to address the repeated lies and misinformation you spread in this one?

I'll make it real easy for you. Lets take it down to that one half of one per cent of your phony claims. Review my post at nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 12:24 a.m. for clarity and direction, then get with the program. In case that opaque lens of yours needs some windex and a scraper, I'll spell it out for you. [[[O-n-e H-u-n-d-r-e-d p-o-s-t-s]]] 100 posts detailing my hate filled screeds to back your accusations. One half of one percent of your claims hotshot. I expected more from you by now.

[[[I'm confident you understand every word I'm saying. Because now I'm speaking your language.]]]

___

okay..where was I....oh yeah; ......to Republican rule? Again...Let her speak to Tammy's relatives to explain this. As well as the many war heroes on this list @ October 1, 2013 at 11:54 p.m. she has insulted.

"The 164 Democrats listed on this page don't think veterans' benefits are important enough to pay for."

Again, more than sad to prop our soldiers up for a disingenuous politically motivated statement like this.

Pretty busy today. Ask ELISI what she would say to Rep. Duckworth who has given so much for Country.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 1, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.

Your math analysis is wrong. I did not say 25 times a day everyday for the past two and a half years. At 11:10 pm on 9/30/13 I said “…back then you would quite literally post sometimes 25 times a day, on a daily basis”. Here is how you mischaracterized that: “I won’t use your average of 25 posts a day over two and a half years…”.

You distinguished yourself when you first came on here with the number of times you would post, and the fanatacism, as I see it, about GWB. I do think hate is the proper word. Regarding others you belittle on a nearly daily basis; I’ve seen it as hate but maybe scorn is a better word. I do think you’ve lightened up just a bit since back then. I will not spend time going back over all of these things. To me, your attitude and ridicule of your opposites are obvious. That you disagree with me is a given.

I recall the multitudinous word. That may have been in response to some snarky remark about your idea of my self obsession. It’s true that I’ve frequently used the word “I” since I usually voice my own observations, opinions and reasoning, rather than constantly linking to what someone else thinks. When I do provide links, it has generally been for substantiation of facts from government sites and MSM sources like USA Today. I found your reasoning that I’m the one that was self absorbed to be laughable considering how often you would fill the threads, with your multitudinous posts.

Rather than self describe oneself, as we tend to do, I’ve come to think that it’s better to see who you agree and disagree with. Looking over FB comments is a good way to do that. And others such as Laird or Waters. It seems clear to me that most here in the basement are decidedly on the Left side of the fence, as are you, while I’m on the Right side. Those differences seem to be largely over socialism rather than the personal social issues. You have made many personal and snarky remarks nail, which seem to be given a pass by most others here. Bias taints perception. In my case you have informed me that I’m in a small bubble world, that I’m unable to carry a debate, many other things even as you have done @4:54 pm. yesterday, which I mostly fluff off.

I have reviewed our recent exchange and find nothing that should be taken badly by you or be upsetting at what you consider to be my lack of response, other than my comments about your drug use at 11:10 p.m. on Monday. You will note that it is you, yourself, that brought that up as you have also done on previous occassions and even to include suggesting that I, or perhaps others, should also light up. I would not have said anything specific about this; had you not lead off in the first place. I should not cast stones. Nor should you. I do hope that I haven’t hurt your feelings, but fear that I have.

kn_dalai — October 2, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — October 1, 2013 at 11:54 p.m.

El, I don't think you understand what this vote was all about. It wasn't about the veterans, it was about the fight going on in Congress right now. It was a vote to "Making continuing appropriations for veterans benefits for fiscal year 2014, and for other purposes". There are two or more underlying things here, first is the "and for other purposes" line and the other is R vs D . The Dems want the budget as a whole and the Repubs want to pick it to pieces so they can eliminate the ACA.

hawkeye — October 2, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, this could also be a reason they didn't pass that bill;

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714?gt1=43001

hawkeye — October 2, 2013 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Insightful interview, both for the "wonks", as well as the casually interested.

1/3

///Why Boehner doesn’t just ditch the hard right///

By Ezra Klein, Published: October 1 at 4:14 pm

Robert Costa is the National Review's Washington editor and one of the best-sourced reporters among House Republicans. Like many others, I've relied on his reporting in recent days about how House Republicans are strategizing around the government shutdown. But it left me with some questions, particularly around Speaker John Boehner's strategy. We spoke by phone this afternoon, and a lightly edited transcript follows.

Ezra Klein: Walk me through the math of the House GOP a bit. Most people seem to think Boehner has around 100 members who largely back him and don't want a shutdown, and it’s a much smaller group, a few dozen or so, who want to take this to the brink. So why doesn’t Boehner, after trying to do it the conservative’s way as he has been in recent weeks, just say, we're voting on a clean CR now, as that’s what the majority of the House Republican majority wants?

Robert Costa: Ever since Plan B failed on the fiscal cliff in January and you saw Boehner in near tears in front of his conference, he’s been crippled. He’s been facing the consequences of that throughout the year. Everything from [the Violence Against Women Act] to the farm bill to the shutdown. The Boehner coup was unsuccessful but there were two dozen members talking about getting rid of him. That’s enough to cause problems. Boehner’s got the veterans and the committee chairs behind him, but the class of 2010 and 2012 doesn’t have much allegiance to him.
The thing that makes Boehner interesting is he’s very aware of his limited hand. Boehner doesn’t live in an imaginary world where he thinks he’s Tip O’Neill and he can bring people into his office and corral them into a certain vote. So he treads carefully, maybe too carefully. But he knows a clean CR has never been an option for him.

EK: But why isn’t it an option? A few dozen unhappy members is an annoyance, but how is it a threat? Wouldn't Boehner be better off just facing them down and then moving on with his speakership?

RC: So there are 30 to 40 true hardliners. But there’s another group of maybe 50 to 60 members who are very much pressured by the hardliners. So he may have the votes on paper. But he'd create chaos. It'd be like fiscal cliff level chaos. You could make the argument that if he brought a clean CR to the floor he might have 100-plus with him on the idea. But could they stand firm when pressured by the 30 or 40 hardliners and the outside groups?

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal


2/3

EK: How much of this is a Boehner problem and how much of this is a House Republicans problem? Which is to say, if Boehner decided to retire tomorrow, is there another House Republican who has enough trust and allegiance in the conference that he or she could manage the institution more effectively? 

RC: What we're seeing is the collapse of institutional Republican power. It’s not so much about Boehner. It’s things like the end of earmarks. They move away from Tom DeLay and they think they're improving the House, but now they have nothing to offer their members. The outside groups don't always move votes directly but they create an atmosphere of fear among the members. And so many of these members now live in the conservative world of talk radio and tea party conventions and Fox News invitations. And so the conservative strategy of the moment, no matter how unrealistic it might be, catches fire. The members begin to believe they can achieve things in divided government that most objective observers would believe is impossible. Leaders are dealing with these expectations that wouldn't exist in a normal environment.

EK: Why does that happen, though? It would absolutely be possible for liberal members to cocoon themselves in a network of liberal Web sites and liberal cable news shows and liberals activists. But in the end, liberal members of Congress end up agreeing to broadly conventional definitions of what is and isn’t politically realistic. So how do House Republicans end up convincing themselves of unrealistic plans, particularly when they’ve seen them fail before, and when respected voices in the Republican and even conservative establishment are warning against them?

RC: When you get the members off the talking points you come to a simple conclusion: They don't face consequences for taking these hardline positions. When you hear members talk candidly about their biggest victory, it wasn’t winning the House in 2010. It was winning the state legislatures in 2010 because they were able to redraw their districts so they had many more conservative voters. The members get heat from the press but they don't get heat from back home.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


3/3

EK: Is there a plausible replacement candidate for Boehner who could actually threaten his speakership in the near term? You used to hear a lot about Cantor, for instance, but he seems a little more closely allied with Boehner these days, and perhaps even a bit tainted in conservative circles because of it.

RC: Some of Cantor’s allies in the House actually worry he’s becoming too tied to Boehner. He used to almost cast himself as the conservative alternative. But I don't think Boehner is seriously threatened. He won't be threatened so long as he goes along with conservatives in the House. He listens to them. He follows their advice. He’s often led by them. And as long as that’s true, how will there ever be a coup attempt? Boehner got so burned by the fiscal cliff that he’s been defanged. There’s no talk now about mounting a coup against him because he never goes against the right. The other candidates you hear about, like Tom Cole or Paul Ryan or Eric Cantor or Kevin McCarthy, you don't hear them clamoring for the job, because they'd have to handle the same situation.

EK: This may be a bit of an odd question, but why does Boehner want to do his job like this under these circumstances? From the outside, it seems like a miserable existence. 

RC: I think John Boehner is frustrated by leading the Republicans in the House but I think he very much loves being speaker. To understand him you have to understand that. He gets to the Capitol early. He relishes the job and the position but he doesn’t relish being at odds so often with his members. He loves being a major American political figure, but he’s not a Newt Gingrich-like figure trying to lead the party in a certain direction. He’s just trying to survive and enjoy it while it lasts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/01/why-boehner-doesnt-just-ditch-the-right/

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 4:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Bottom line: House Republicans will do anything to hold on to their government job:)

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Reading your post Nail got me to think back a little. Boehner is old school from back in the days when both side would argue a position and one side would win. At the end of the day they all would meet for a beer. The end result would be a compromise that both could live with. These younger Repubs. are like young bulls. They want to snort and paw the ground. They grew up never having to give ground. I believe it will come back to bite them in the end. Give me the old school Repubs. At least things got done for the betterment of all of us.

timerick — October 2, 2013 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Margaret Tweet is a blithering blathering idiot. Back during the election she tried to claim Madore was more qualified to hold office than Boldt because Marc is "only" a truck driver. Now she's over on the Humane Society article page taking up Madore's call for competition for the Humane Society. She figures we can pay the other animal shelters less to hold the strays County rounds up for the required 3-5 days.

There are only two other shelters left here in Clark, and about a half dozen across the river. Most are dedicated to cats, and all are full to the max. And the people who run them would spit in her face if she was stupid enough to mention her little plan to their faces. The people who operate and volunteer at those shelters are dedicated to keeping the animals alive - they consider the Humane Society and its practice of euthanasia a necessary evil (putting it politely). And that's really what she (and Madore) are focusing on with their model - hold for the minimum length of time required, and then to the execution room.

roger — October 2, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — October 2, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.

I miss the old school politics. Ideology was front and center, but at the end of the day the people's work got done. Your thoughts are right on and mirror mine to the letter. (I suppose that's why I think your thoughts are right on:)

Unchecked gerrymandering of districts needs to stop. On both sides. A main takeaway from this current debacle is how desperate these guys are to retain their government jobs.
Maybe we should have some type of job performance/criteria standards introduced. At least make these guys put in a 40 hour work week.

Just sad what's happening. And the thing is, the tea party faction believes doing as little as possible and obstructing everything they can is great governing. Throw a wrench in the works, stand back, and watch the breakdown. Some of these politicians are giddy about this. Combine these dynamics with people like the Koch Bros throwing unlimited, unchecked "campaign" $$$ in their coffers and we've got problems that aren't going to be fixed anytime soon.

Throwing out the Citizens United decision would be a great start.

"Give me the old school Repubs. At least things got done for the betterment of all of us."

Amen

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Not going to argue your point HC. What I was referring to was the way they used to be. My wife's uncle is Al Bauer a Democrat. He prided himself in bringing compromise for both sides. These young Repubs are completely different from those days. So are some of the Democrats. Nobody wants to bend for the good of all of us. I don't see anything changing. Re-read Nails article. I think Boehner is afraid of these young Repubs. He needs to stand up for what is right.

timerick — October 2, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OMG!

roger — October 2, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.

I'm starting to feel like a tramp.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI, this could also be a reason they didn't pass that bill;

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714?gt1=43001

hawkeye — October 2, 2013 at 3:29 p.m

Hawkeye thanks for the link it was helpful.

But I wasn't complaining about it not being passed. The yea's was 264 to 164 nay's.
So it did pass. I was simply showing the list I got from the government's own clerk house site.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll506.xml#N

AND I might add I wasn't "demonizing" anyone as someone took it upon themselves to ASSume.
I posted what I did to show everyone that Dem's are just as much as obstructionist as the Repubs are. What I'm finding is there are those that are so caught up in their own party's BS they can't or won't understand just a tiny bit of the other side. Fine for them to tear into the other party, but if something is said about their party they don't like all hell breaks lose.
Daily I hear or read about what is going on and when I hear one side brings in proposals, the other side (and they both do it) screams they are not willing to negotiate.
Now as far as the pres goes, he is just as bad. Refusing to listen, conference, or compromise to anything.
Promising veto at every turn. That isn't what a leader of a country does, why doesn't he sit down with those yokels and demand they get their chit together and help this country move forward. Other pres has had to do just that in the pass, why hasn't Obama?
If it were me, those idiots would be told to get with it, lock them in chambers, feed them fast food until they came to agreement. I guarantee after about a week of little or no sleep, no showers and fast food they'd compromise and get chit done.

ELISI — October 2, 2013 at 8:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 2, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.

I don't think you can hurt these guys by freezing their paychecks, if that was legal. I think on top of that, they should have to be sequestered until they settle everything. No days off, no vacations, no nothing.

Also, I think that their pension system should be changed too. No more 100% for 4 years of service. They should get 10% per year AFTER their first term.

hawkeye — October 2, 2013 at 8:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What ground is there to give timerick?

holycrapola — October 2, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.

HC- The Dems are spent. Sequestration bring spending levels Paul Ryan's proud of.

There's not much to barter with anymore. Obama's given away most of the farm already.

Maybe if we allowed them to kill a few poor kids on the House floor each day. Might appease their bloodlust.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 8:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


As far as the board meeting on CRC... does anyone know about this? If so and true please post links if there is any.

“C-Tran Attorney Tom Wolfendale and C-Tran CEO Jeff Hamm already executed (signed) with Portland TriMet. They did this without even showing the proposed contract to the Board. They made it effective immediately with no reasonable time period for the Board to even review. They made no provision for the Board to make any reasonable amendments.

They built into that contract the requirement that C-Tran must pay to Tri-Met, $5 million in liquidated damages if for any reason, C-Tran fails to fully support everything specified in the agreement including the requirement that C-Tran shall use eminent domain to condemn and transfer all properties demanded by Tri-Met to that agency.”

ELISI — October 2, 2013 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's interesting that many of the people who are against the CRC are for the Tesoro operation at the Port, and vice versa. In both instances, an elected group of people made a decision that will have a large impact on livability here. And there's not a lot of consistency in the perception of the "rightness" of this - the pros are happy with the decision making process, and the antis are demanding that the people need to be heard from.

roger — October 2, 2013 at 8:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There should be no ground to give. It's called work together for the good of all. Set your personal differences aside. When we are divided like this it does no one any good. How they are doing things sets us up for if one fails we all are going to fail. I don't know why they can't see this.

timerick — October 2, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi - Where did you read that? They were instructed to enter into negotiations with TriMet during that meeting last week, though I don't recall them being given the authority to sign any agreement. And any agreement is premature - OR 2800 has lapsed without having the requirements fulfilled, so at this point in time there is no bridge project.

roger — October 2, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


OK, I found it - on David Madore's web page, posted 28 September. Some more:

"They built into that contract the right for TriMet to pursue C-Tran with unlimited breach of contract penalties.

"The date next to their signatures is September 27, the day after the special C-Tran meeting that ended late the previous evening. It is not reasonable to believe that the signed contract was created in less than a day.

"It appears that they either back-dated the contract to pre-date the call to stop, or they failed to disclose to the governing board that they had already crafted the contract with such unconscionable and unacceptable terms. The CEO and attorney had the obligation to reveal the secret contract (or at least the terms they were considering) to the governing board for their consideration at that special meeting."

The rest of the post is an argument that the vote of that board meeting should be negated as both Ganley and Freeman (representing four cities) voted against the motion. He's citing a rule on taxation, but there's no tax involved in the plan Hamm presented. I'm thinking he's also looking at a lawsuit for the following -- "It appears that C-Tran’s attorney and Jeff Hamm are violating these bylaws and operating as a rogue agency...." He goes on to accuse the Board of the same.

It would be nice to see a copy of this 40 page contract he's talking about. And if it truly exists, I'd like to know why no one else has mentioned it - none of the newspapers, not Lew Waters - none of the commenters on any of the web pages - nothing.

roger — October 2, 2013 at 9:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Fellow basementeers. I apologize in advance for this rude post. It goes against my grain but it is what it is. Please ignore if you can. Solely for the one who mockingly chose his handle as kn_dalai. Sorry for the ugliness. As the saying goes, 'when you wrestle a pig, you're gonna get dirty.'

___

kn_dalai — What a complete mockery you make of having any meaningful conversation.

Again, throwing accusations and not enough honor or integrity to back them up.

The wordiest post I've ever seen without a damn thing said. On top of your other character flaws, lazy seems to be another.

Where's the beef hotshot? Again, not a damn thing. At least others who throw stones in here present some kind of valid reasoning. You just throw crapola against the wall and hope it sticks. At least in gimp like fashion you respond to this type of abrasive speak. I'm reminded of a bizarre scene from Pulp Fiction.

Just sitting there, presumably sucking off the taxpayer tit while criticizing and demeaning anyone rooting for good governance.

You'll never own up to your actions. My guess is you never have. My guess also is that you're paying a dear price for it. People don't become as disillusioned and bitter as you are overnite. Your disdain for your fellow man bleeds through your every post.

Tell you what. I'll cut my last offer in half to fifty. Fifty posts.

Aw never mind. You and I both know you can't do it.

I'll wrap this up saying once again, when you bully and harangue other posters in here (I've noticed they're usually women) I'll be sure and remind you of this complete failure of yours to supply any type of validation for your whining, baseless accusations.

Using abrasive and unfriendly language like I am goes against my grain to the umpteenth power. Given your ridiculous yet wordy post, this seems to be the only language that resonates with you. I can't do it anymore or I'm gonna need a shower or puke.

Don't know how you do it day after day. One can only imagine what you're like on other forums with looser standards.

And you have the audacity to call me or anyone else a hypocrite.

Now go behave yourself. Grab yourself a drink, kick your dog or whatever it is you do. Just don't do it with me.

___

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 2, 2013 at 9:25 p.m.

There was a discussion of this last week and it's the reason why Madore et. al. are incensed.

From last week:

Some of David Madore’s latest FB entry:

"I just received a copy of the 40-page contract that C-Tran Attorney Tom Wolfendale and C-Tran CEO Jeff Hamm already executed (signed) with Portland TriMet. They did this without even showing the proposed contract to the Board. They made it effective immediately with no reasonable time period for the Board to even review. They made no provision for the Board to make any reasonable amendments.

They built into that contract the requirement that C-Tran must pay to Tri-Met, $5 million in liquidated damages if for any reason, C-Tran fails to fully support everything specified in the agreement including the requirement that C-Tran shall use eminent domain to condemn and transfer all properties demanded by Tri-Met to that agency."

And much more. Unconscionable.

kn_dalai — September 29, 2013 at 8:52 a.m.

Yes, it is interesting that no one else has said anything about this. If Madore is blowing it out his ear then the Madore haters are right. At least on this one. But others have also not refuted Madore. Maybe the contract hasn’t been made public yet.

kn_dalai — October 2, 2013 at 9:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Again, apologies for bringing a negative vibe in here.

Something to balance out things a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-pFAF...

Peace.

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 2, 2013 at 8:58 p.m

A friend sent it to me. I was wondering where he got it. Thanks for letting me know, now I guess we wait to see if it is the truth.

ELISI — October 2, 2013 at 9:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Solid interview today with President Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM5iAkCdoCs&feature;=youtube_gdata

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


No wonder House Republicans are miffed. Looks like many had to change their weekend plans.

(:})

///KKK Rally At Gettysburg Canceled Because Of Government Shutdown///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/kkk-rally-canceled_n_4024192.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

nailingit — October 2, 2013 at 10:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal



I'm assigning myself a forum furlough.

Ugliness has a way of attaching itself to a person when it's confronted repeatedly. So true in the real world, and I'm finding it, at least to a degree, to be true in this setting.

Peace

nailingit — October 3, 2013 at 12:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, I hope your self-imposed furlough is short, say a day. Most of us here get ticked off at each other at some point, but often we try to find some common ground.

Elisi, while I disagree with you on who is to blame for this fiasco and while I think the prez compromised enough in the past, I also feel your scorn toward the whole bunch of losers occupying the halls of congress. Plenty of grounds to agree here. We are at a point where keeping their jobs and their lifelong benefits and wealth that comes with it, seem to be the most important reasons for their actions. Where did we end up with keeping them supplied with free money for the rest of their lives?

A bit of living in sequestration, as you put it, would do the trick in three days with these spoiled brats.

luvithere — October 3, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, I was wrong but I was also right;

A member who leaves office before serving five years because of an election defeat or resignation is not eligible for a pension. And any member who is convicted of a crime such as bribery, fraud, racketeering or perjury for acts committed after September 2007 is ineligible.

But, on grounds that working in Congress means uncertain job security, elected members and their staffs receive a larger retirement benefit from FERS for each year of service than other federal employees. They also become eligible for a retirement annuity at a younger age and with fewer years of service.

In return, they contribute a higher percentage of their pay to participate in FERS — 1.3 percent instead of 0.8 percent for most workers. As in the private sector, the bulk of the retirement benefit's cost is picked up by the employer, in this case, the U.S. government.

Members of Congress can begin drawing their full pension at age 62 if they have completed five years of service, at age 50 with 20 years' service, or at any age with 25 years' service. They can collect a reduced pension with 10 years of service at ages 55 to 57, depending on their birth year.

http://www.aarp.org/work/employee-benefits/info-12-2010/benefits_what_does_congress_really_get.html

hawkeye — October 3, 2013 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal


First, I want to thank you all for your heartfelt sympathies and condolences. Your words of kindness touched me deeply. I will continue to read and post on this fine website.

Where else can one enjoy the witty repartee that goes on here. I read newspapers all over the US and not one comes up to the level of intelligence and the twist of words as this one does. I've grown accustom to the people who post here. I can pretty much tell who is posting by reading the first sentence of any comment. As probably most of you do.

My stepfather was a dyed in the wool democrat. My mother on the other hand was an independent. Made for a lively discussion at the dinner table and led to some of the best verbal donnybrooks. My mom made my stepfather turn beet red with some of her takes on the politicians of the day. He absolutely hated any republican who didn't want some form of welfare for the people. Funny because he worked for the state of Oregon and drew a nice PERS. Mom on the other hand saw the realities of too much dependance of the government and not being motivated enough to better ones self. I think I get my take from her side.

Today the situation remains the same. There are young bulls today as was in the past. We the public have let this fester to the point that we get mad when some of these bulls flail around like a bull in a china shop. This would not happen if we were to change some of the parameters and the scope of their job. The politicians get upset if someone even mentions reform for them. Go figure.

JohnCasey — October 3, 2013 at 7:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnCasey: My mom was a rabid Chicago Democrat and my dad a Republican, so our family dinner conversations were as interesting as yours. :) It sure helped me learn to love people from all political stripes. It just could not matter much to me.

kn_dalai and roger: Lew Waters has posted a copy of the 40 page Tri-Met/C-Tran contract at the very top of this blog post:

http://lewwaters.com/2013/09/29/haste-makes-rage/

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Am I the only one impressed with the Oregon legislature's ability to "get 'er done?" Truly, all 5 bills passed both houses with compromises. If only our Federal government would get together for the greater good, too.

The OR legislature is still going to address the CRC funding sometime down the road. It was smart of the governor to remove it from this 5 bill package.

I have no good predictions on that one, however.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Managerial shake up at the Seattle Times has produced this promising gem:

"Leon Espinoza will become the assistant managing editor for standards and interactivity. He will safeguard the credibility of The Seattle Times on all platforms and make sure we are listening to our readers, not just talking at them."

Public editor/ombudsman? Before I celebrate, I will wait and see.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Censorship?? Or violating a guideline?

So I posted this comment on the "Clark County Athlete of the Week" article and it was removed. Was it removed because I'm taking a jab at the Columbian (and they dont like that?)? (Advice on how to reword it, or just fuggetaboutit??)

------------snip---
Let's face it: the REAL purpose of this weekly athlete contest is to get each school to send a bunch of emails around asking everyone they know to vote for one of the kids C'mon, admit it to yourselves that you voted because someone asked you to, and NOT because you happen to know what each of the kids did this passed week and which one was most deserving.

Good job, Columbian, for figuring out how to get people to visit your website.

c_johnson — October 3, 2013 at 9:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - Thanks for the info. I just downloaded the contract and read it.

Frankly, I can see why TriMet is so far in debt. The terms appear very favorable for us - especially with that capped annual charge.

What I didn't see (on an initial scan) is contract termination. There's discussion on a 5 year service plan and changes to that, but what if we change our minds and want to tell them to go away? It appears that we've been locked into an in perpetuity contract, with a healthy penalty to break it.

What I also didn't see was anything making this contract contingent on the CRC project itself. That could lead in a number of directions.

Ted Wheeler's list of 'must meet' prerequisites for project approval is still far from being met, and expecting the full $1.75 billion from the Federal government seems highly uncertain without a change in control of the House next month (still unlikely, even with the shutdown blame game being played out in the media).

Washington State is quiet - too quiet. Our Senate has their grand tour of Transportation town meetings going on - What little I've read says people want improvements, but don't want the gas tax increased. The State Senate only has 3 seats up for election next month, and the only possible change of power goes to the Repubs. So, unless someone has been convinced in some other way to change, that "Majority Coalition" appears intact. Otherwise, we've heard nothing from Gov Inslee or Jim Moeller. (Hmmm... Is it possible they've gone back to that State Court justice who shot down the 2/3 tax initiative and are trying to get a judgment that the Senate cannot refuse to fund an agreement already entered into? As Lew Waters and friends are fond of saying, ol' Jim has no qualms with going to the Court to get decisions reversed.)

roger — October 3, 2013 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal


oops, left off this line from what I had posted before: "The real honor is to be nominated. After that, winning is a popularity contest."

Reading it all now in total, I think I was too nasty. :-)

c_johnson — October 3, 2013 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


c_johnson,

I'm not seeing anything overly out of place with your comment (assuming you've told us everything you said). It comes across as 'sour grapes', so I presume your choice didn't win.

I checked, and it is a popularity contest vote, with a couple of rules to prevent repetitive winners. It also looks as though The Columbian Sports crew selects people to get voted on, so at least we're ensured the winner actually accomplished something.

I don't follow prep football, but did notice the 'other sports' vote had a glitch and they were revoting week 3. I voted for the girl from Camas who won the Nike cross country meet - she smoked all the top runners in the area. Sadly, the rest of the voters don't agree - she isn't even in the running. Oh well - Life isn't always fair.

roger — October 3, 2013 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I had the same thoughts you did after studying that contract: it really leaned in favor of Washington in terms of the financials. It was an offer that we could hardly refuse, which is why Steve Stuart changed his vote.

All of this is moot if Oregon does not agree to fund the scaled-down version of the bridge. We cannot honor a contract on a ghost light rail project.

c_johnson: Welcome to the Forum. There is a lot of truth in your censored assertion: website hits are big data for newspapers now. But what really counts is how long the readers linger. The only post I have ever had censored was one when I linked to a competing newspaper's article about the acid-attack woman's suspected self-inflicted wounds. It scooped the Columbian. When I asked Lou B why my comment and link were removed, he said, "We are not in the business of providing free advertising to other media outlets." The irony in his statement? He sure did not censor links to national media outlets when they were interviewing him over this story. :) It is his realm, he is King, and they can censor what they want, I guess.

My bar is very high in terms of free speech, so I cannot offer any suggestions to "clean" yours up. You might just write the web police here and ask. You will get an honest answer.

I really think the comments here are complaint driven: if someone complains enough or multiple people complain, it increases the chance that a post will be removed.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 10:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks, Roger. Yeah, sour grapes but also I wanted to say to readers--especially the kids in the contest--that this is a sort of bogus popularity contest, not any sort of "achievement" (other than the ability to muster the troops). I really like that the editors pick the Top 5 and I think they should leave it at that.

And I've been around the block enough times not to think this is also mainly a marketing ploy for them to get more readers

c_johnson — October 3, 2013 at 10:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


c_johnson - OK - I see you reached a similar conclusion as to how the poll works while I was looking at what goes on.

I've got an old friend back East who STILL gets upset every so often because she wasn't allowed to be prom queen back in 1969. She won the student vote, but the election was overturned by the school administration because she was part of our "sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll" crowd, and didn't meet their standards. Oh well. I was also part of a group at college who helped drum up support so a blind student's seeing eye great dane won the homecoming queen popular vote. She really was a pretty dog, especially with the cute bow she wore. Needless to say, the Greek Council didn't approve and raised hell. My roomie was editor of the school paper, and printed my little diatribe accusing them of racism (she was a black dane), and also questioning the whether a group that practices Greek shouldn't be disbarred for immorality. (That latter comment resulted in a couple of fights - something still OK in those days.)

Anyhow, I've digressed.

roger — October 3, 2013 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


One more thing: creative sports coverage is helping keep newspapers alive. The Columbian is trying to mix it up and generate interest, maybe at the expense of the fragile teen egos in our region.

I don't like popularity contests, especially when our youth are the target subjects. Their brains are not fully developed until age 25 or so and they do not perceive or process this stuff as an adult would.

I know there are people here who would say, "So what? Kids need to toughen up." Current research tells us otherwise and I will always want to protect our vulnerable teens.

What is "oh, hum" to adults, can be interpreted life-and-death situations by youth.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, yeah website hits are important, as is the lingering. What Columbian gains most by this contest, however, is EXPOSURE. Think of how many NEW eyeballs they get when Parent A sends out a blast email to everyone in their email contact lists. Some of those new people will like what they see and come back for more every week.

Incredibly shrewd marketing, at the small price of some bruised teenage egos (but they need to learn to bounce back anyways). As a marketing person myself, I can't help but marvel at the beauty of this. (Columbian, you need to do a better job of getting those newbies to do "the next step" )

c_johnson — October 3, 2013 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


maybe becoming an oil exporting nation isn't worth it.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/fracking-wastewater-contaminated-likely-radioactive-8C11323012

mrd — October 3, 2013 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


c_johnson: Yep. Beautiful manipulation of the masses to sell a product.

Have you read "Brandwashed" and "Buyology" by Martin Lindstrom? Elementary stuff for you, I expect, but mandatory reading for any consumer who wants to understand the psychology and manipulation behind the Sell.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 11:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Here’s one of my very typical wordy posts in which I say nothing at all. It’s because of something nail said @9:43 pm yesterday when he was body slamming me and finishing me off with a pile driver.

It’s a little factoid about the Dalai Lama and the movie Pulp Fiction. (So that I might make this as wordy as possible and once again demonstrate how self centered I am, since I know you are all keenly interested in my thoughts about everything, let me say that I saw that movie one time. Not my knd of movie.)

The Dalai Lama and Pulp Fiction. What’s the connection you ask? Ahhh. It’s about the strawberries, they…. no wait; that’s a different one. Oh yes, now I remember. But first….

kn_dalai — October 3, 2013 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


There was once a guy on the old forum, who claimed he was going to be a candidate for Congress from the third CD. Some of you were here back then and I’m sure you remember him. He was pro union and stongly about immigration reform, some would say anti-immigration and also had his ideas about SS funding. He went by Kendallin2010. He was pretty much stuck on those three things. But he wouldn’t actually get into discussions and would not answer any questions. His spelling was bad bad. I watched this for a while and then came on here myself as KNDali2012 in or around April of 2010. I had written a parody of Kendallin2010 about my own soon to be candidacy for the presidency of the Federation of Planets. I thought it was going to be a one time deal but then found myself making more parodies and then getting into political discussions. And here I am still after three and a half years. Now just how did that happen anyway I keep thinking. (Remember; I’m trying to make this as long as possible.) OK. When the old forum went to FB, I changed my name from KNDali2012 to kn_dalai. So now you all know about that!

Now about the movie Pulp Fiction. One of the stars was Uma Thurman. And here’s where the connection to the Dalai Lama begins. (Yes, yes, I know. “Where in the world are you going with this long, long, wordy thingy here kn_dalai?” you’re asking.) If you’ve ever heard the name Uma, maybe you’ve said to yourself: “I’ve never heard a name like that before. I do wonder where in the world that comes from?” Well here’s where that comes from. Uma’s father is Robert Thurman. A professor of Buddist studies at Columbia University. Interesting guy. He once wanted to join Castro’s rebels. But was refused. After that he turned to Buddism. Became friends with the Dalai Lama and is the first westerner to have become an ordained Tibetan Buddist monk. Various websites say that he was once named as one of Time Magazine’s 25 most influencial Americans. Now according to wikipedia: “While her father gave his children a Buddhist upbringing, she has the same name as one of the Hindu goddess Parvati's alternate names, "Uma", which means "Light" in Sanskrit.[2][3] Regarding religion, she now calls herself agnostic.[4] She has three brothers, Ganden (b. 1968), Dechen (b. 1973), and Mipam (b. 1978), and a half-sister named Taya (b. 1960), from her father's previous marriage.” He’s a co-founder with actor Richard Gere, of Tibet House in NY city, which is dedicated to preserving Tibetan culture.

I once sent an email to Professor Thurman with a brief question about a book he had referenced in one of his Tibet House lectures, which I viewed on DVD, and he responded with a brief answer. Wish I’d printed that email response and mailed it to him for his autograph. Better yet, I wished I’d mailed that to Uma for her autograph. I never though about that. Oh well, bad karma I guess. There! 647 words.

kn_dalai — October 3, 2013 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — October 3, 2013 at 12:56 p.m

Seems I remember something about that. Good stuff. I think I used to get into huge fights with that wacko. Anyway, thanks for the story, I liked that movie and Uma was great.

I's also like to say welcome to c_johnson. Always room for another voice. I don't follow local football any longer, my Grandkids graduated Battle Ground HS two years ago so there is really no reason.

Hey nail, about the C-tran contract, I haven't had time to read it yet but I think they signed it when they did for two reasons, one, like you said, it benefited us a lot and two, they were afraid that Oregon's legislature was going to bring it up during their special session and make their own rules before we could sign. I think Steve Stuart did the right thing.

hawkeye — October 3, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai,

Good thing you put the disclaimer about Pulp Fiction in the beginning - I don't like Tarantino's movies - if I've got to work at keeping track of what's going on, then at least make them interesting. As for the Dalai Lama - Too reminiscent of Arthur Dent, searching the galaxy for a destroyed Earth that (at times) never was.

But I'd never heard of Robert Thurman, so I did a little looking. The guy marries a rich girl, has a kid, somehow pokes his out out with a tire jack, gets divorced, and takes off for parts East to find himself. All in a year. Spends a few years at this, meets the Dalai Lama and becomes a disciple (or something) and eventually becomes the first American ordained a Buddhist whatever their preachers are called. Eventually finds his way back to the States, where he promptly renounces his vows of celibacy and marries Timothy Leary's ex. Settles down and becomes a college professor. THIS IS GOOD SHIT!!!! Kn-dalai - This is the kind of stuff that makes for a movie series that'll make hundreds of millions. For the first movie, make Thurman a cross between Indiana Jones and Kwai Chang Caine, and add a little action to the story of his trip to Tibet. (Beatings by and escape from Turkish police, an encounter with some Thuggee cultists in India, etc.) The second movie can have him tiring of the academic life, and he can team up with the Dalai Lama and go in search of Shangri La, where they're going to find the secret of convincing the Chinese to hand the country back to them. The third and final can have the Chinese resisting being kicked out - we can plagiarize heavily from Exodus here, and eventually make everything right in the world.

Now, to make this work, we're going to have to get Nails on the team. We need the crazy intelligence he can bring to the table. There will be plenty of opportunity for you two to yell at each other while we're making the movies - All part of the creative process.

So, you two are going to have to kiss and make up. I'll be damned if we're going to give up getting rich just 'cause you two want to squabble.

roger — October 3, 2013 at 2:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou, I respect your opinion. Even though I don't fully agree.

For me it isn't media, I barely watch or read about it. It's more of what I see when I am out. The media likes to twist things around. But I know what you mean.

This tug of war has been going on for so long but it isn't just one side or another, it's all of them. As an example, look at a case going to court. The Prosecutor is going to tell you why their opinion is good or bad and the defense is going to do the same thing. The jury comes into play and it is up to the jury to decide which side is right and which is wrong. But then you have the Judge to agree on the final decision. Somewhere someone is not going to like what others do and some aren't going to have compassion or sympathy for what is done or what isn't being done. If you understand that...good! If not...I'll try to explain it again!

mxfun118 — October 3, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


mxfun118: My respect for politicians, most of them, has plunged. One must ask oneself: what sort of personality is attracted to this ugly job?

I have always joked about making all politicians undergo a personality assessment. Let's identify the pathology right off the bat, so we all know what/who we are dealing with: Narcissistic PD; Histrionic PD, Schizoid PD, etc.

Now, THAT is transparency. :)

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou: Below is one of a series of articles pertaining to common personality disorders which might help answer your question. Reading this and another he's written pertaining to manipulative techniques by playing the innocent victim, I couldn't help but think of a certain County commissioner who likes to play both innocent victim and noble cause to feed his needs.

George Simon ,PHD
“One of the more subtle ways that a person hell-bent upon power and control can veil their will to dominate is to cloak it under the cover of subservience to a higher cause or the purported desire to be of service.”

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2009/03/25/manipulation-via-servant-role/

JohnK — October 3, 2013 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger,

Despite what some others here may think about whatever, I for one enjoy laughing, and your scenerio of 2:31 pm has given me a real good belly laugh.

I don’t much care for Tarantino. But for different reasons than you, it sounds like. Back in the day, when you killed a guy in the movies, it wasn’t about gruesome. It was about the story. James Bond whacked the bad guy. Over with. In the age of greater reality in the movies, it’s all about gruesome. Gritty. There’s a question of: does art imitate life, or the other way around.

I just looked up Tarantino on Wikipedia. I’d have thought there would have been something there about how much Tarantino admires Scorsese. Something like that, but there’s zilch.

I also don’t care for much of Scorsese’s stuff. But one thing he did, interestingly, is the movie Kundun. A great movie if you’re looking for a good story instead of the usual sex, violence and chase scenes action. 1997. Same year as Seven Years in Tibet came out. He deserves a lot of credit for that movie. It is about the Dalai Lama. The actors are all Tibetans, or Tibetan sounding names. Maybe a few Nepalese in there. Don’t know. But there’s no big name Hollywood actors in the film. It did bad at the box office. The Chinese government always comes down on these things about the Dalai Lama and the studio may not have done much to promote the film. Sounds like. Seven Years in Tibet, however did much better.

kn_dalai — October 3, 2013 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye - RE: Reason #2. I'm going to disagree there. By the week of the vote anyone following Oregon politics knew that Gov Kitz's 5 bills were going to have a hard time getting through the special session, and that the support from the legislature for the Oregon alone CRC project was disappearing. It would have been way too risky to put it up at this time. Gov Kitz himself told The Oregonian "... that in order for the bridge to proceed, the Legislature would need to hold public hearings to build support for the project."

Oregon has been asking Gov Inslee to weigh in with support for the new project ever since Kitz proposed it. Senate President Courtney has been begging him to say something. Complete silence. Meanwhile, the WA Senate is out holding community meetings and gathering info to help develop a new State Transportation plan.

It's impossible that the formal agreement was drafted to the final copy and signed in less than 24 hours. Hamm's proposal brief on 26 Sep was straight from it. That whole meeting was 'smoke and mirrors' - a decision was already made to enter into this agreement with TriMet, and Stuart was in on it. He had to be; that was the only way to carry the vote.

And now the ball is back in Inslee's court. Vancouver City Council has carried the day with C-Tran. Oregon has the position of power, and they're playing the "wait and sweeten the deal" game. Inslee, Moeller, House Leader Pat Sullivan and WSDOT chief Lynn Peterson have got to make a move - one that will negate the Senate and that the State Court will support.

roger — October 3, 2013 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And something else I just ran across. Paula Hammond just started working for Parsons Brinkerhoff as their Senior Vice President and National Transportation Market Leader. She's probably already got meetings lined up with the WA and the OR delegations, ready to pitch her presentation that they should ditch Evans and Associates and let the real pros run the show.

Which leads to another thought. All those plans for buying local steel and expectations for hiring local union labor - Do they still exist with the Oregon Alone plan? Probably not - If Oregon does this, they'll have to guarantee to their legislature and to the people that they come in on or under budget. That will most likely mean buying the cheapest steel available, and hiring the contractors offering the lowest bids. That's nonunion labor.

roger — October 3, 2013 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK @ 4:47 pm: Very interesting, for sure. I see the parallels and you can better believe the politician does not. :)

Anyone interested in talking with the Tesoro/Savage folks (have a lease with the Port to store and transfer Bakken oil) in a small group setting? They will be at the Shumway Neighborhood Association meeting tonight at 7pm at the VSAA media room. Come, if you like, and bring your questions or comments.

manthou — October 3, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey ELISI, I found something you might be interested in. Actually all of you might like this---

Top 16 myths about the health care law

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/sep/24/top-16-myths-about-health-care-law/

hawkeye — October 3, 2013 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — October 3, 2013 at 7:43 a.m.

Manthou, don't be too surprised at Oregon's Legislature and the ability to get things done as you said. Their State Senate is Democrat Majority as is their House of Representatives. With a governor who is also Democrat, would you expect a different result???

goldenoldie — October 3, 2013 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 3, 2013 at 5:43 p.m

Thanks for the link, didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
Others may learn from it.

ELISI — October 3, 2013 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Roger I went to a meeting this morning and was informed from someone that was at Portlands Metro meeting yesterday. Wheeler was there and after the meeting he told my friend that Inzlee has been told by Kitz to back off. Also the Washington transportation commitee has told Inslee to back off if he wants to see a transportation bill anywhere near what he wants. The next few weeks should be very interesting. Maybe that is why Moeller has been so quite the last few days? Strange things are happening.

timerick — October 3, 2013 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye --- Here's another link that reinforces what you posted. There might be information that Elisi and others can share with their less well informed friends.

Everything you need to know about life under Obamacare By Ezra Klein and Sarah Kliff - Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/%3Fp%3D63297/

langenthal — October 3, 2013 at 8:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


catharticism

ca-thar-ti-cism [noun]

1: the faith, practice, or system relating to punitive mind control; much aligned with sanduskycism

2: a group, or groups, promoting the improper use of catheters

3: the practice, or practices of ex-lax usage

4: the process of authoring wordy screeds to the benefit of self

luvithere — October 3, 2013 at 6:20 a.m. roger — October 3, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.-et anyone who gives a flying flip-

There was a time I used to post nothing but links and articles (although no where near the amount that was mentioned earlier by kn_dalai) relating to current events without commentary. Back in the day this forum was like the wild west, with little or no censorship from the C. (I'm sure many remember!)

It became too much trouble to offer personal opinion, because anytime a poster would offer up anything but a hard right slant they'd get relentlessly nailed from the likes of larimer, Waters, (before he fancied himself as a blogger) "artimus," "right wing extremist" and one or two who still drop in. It was quite a band of brothers, who would attempt to verbally slay anyone who dare advocate for same sex marriage, drug legalization, etc. Citing moral decadence, country going in the toilet, cats and dogs living together etc. etc. Quite the moral majority ;) Bobbo the Clown used to conduct his late night bible study group (literally) in this forum with some of his church members. It was quite the show.

Many have used this "cloak of invisibility" of anonymity to say what they will without conscience. It's tough for anyone (especially with males, as ego's runs high) to take it. (still is at times) Nothing was off the table of sleaze with these guys. (except maybe for family members?) Quite an eye opener for someone who had recently located to Vancouver. I remember the first post I made, I casually introduced myself as a middle left type guy and "artimus" let me have it with both barrels of sleaze.

To combat this, one either got dirty in the ring or just left the forum altogether.

I think everyone who posts here today, who have been around long enough to remember, have changed their demeanor quite a bit to the positive. In this way, forum censorship, in the long run, has turned out to be a good thing.

nailingit — October 3, 2013 at 11:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal


To turn the page to today...

I'm de-furloughing myself in hopes of working through those who attempt to impose avatarial sequestration.

Folks who attempt to get personal and throw stones while punching a keyboard are a dime a dozen. It's when I found myself picking up those stones, and hurling them back, is what I found to be unacceptable. Little to do with an anonymous avatar, everything to do with my personal standards of conduct. My bad.

Anyway, before I get assailed for a lengthy post, :)) or improper use of an emoticon :))) (((: -:))) I'll wrap it up and say that I'm thankful for the forum, by and large it has become a friendly place to visit and I enjoy you folks contributions. You've enlightened me on many issues and have provided lotsa laughs, as well as caused me to put my nose to the grindstone on issues of the day, and for that I give a hearty thanks to all.

And over time, I've found Vancouver to be quite a friendly place.

To quote Grace Slick, "It's a new dawn!"

(I almost went 24 hours!)

nailingit — October 3, 2013 at 11:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Glad you are back, Nails. We need your humor.

luvithere — October 4, 2013 at 5:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 3, 2013 at 11:52 p.m

Huh??? You were gone??? How long did I sleep?

Never mind, welcome back, I missed you----- I think.

hawkeye — October 4, 2013 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nails: Sociologists will be studying phenomena like our Forum. It is its own little micro-world, with unwritten, but evident group norms. I like this little cast of characters.

timerick @ 7:43 PM: Bingo, brother! At our neighborhood meeting last night, people were scratching their heads over Kitzhaber's leaving out the CRC in the special session. It did not puzzle me and I suspected something political was behind it. He never would have gotten those five bills passed otherwise.

The Clark County Commissioners are trying to identify local transportation projects to promote to the Transportation Committee so we are not left out when they finally start to dole out the goods. Madore even advised Stuart: don't leave out the "Crossing." He wants a bridge, but not the current proposed project.

Good for you for attending whatever meeting you did, timerick! We all need to get out of our comfy homes now to listen, learn and participate when public meetings happen. Otherwise, someone else's voice will be heard.

Speaking of meetings, the Tesoro/Savage presentation last night was excellent. Not a big crowd, so we had lots of good questions answered. I recommend going to any future ones they have. They are trying to go to all Westside neighborhoods in the Fall and early Winter.

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Last night, another factoid I learned about was that Vancouver Vitality, the "tea party" PAC in Clark County, just got a healthy infusion of $60,000 from some anonymous donor.

I tried to look it up on PDC, but could not find it posted yet.

Some well-heeled business person is worried about the Vancouver elections. Wonder who that could be? I wish he would concentrate on his own city or give that money to people in need.

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 7:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oriental "foot" massage places cropping up in neighborhoods in da 'Couve. Have you noticed their proliferation lately?

Apparently, Oregon recently passed a law that requires a massage business to license the entire business, not just the practitioners, so they are moving over here to skirt this OR law. It is suspected that the persons working in these places are not much better than indentured sex slaves, working against their will. They get one licensed massage therapist on board to make it "legal" and, when the state zaps that practitioner, they just move someone else's credential in.

They are a cash only business and might be skirting B and O taxes.

There is an investigative story here somewhere. Anyone? Anyone? Beuhler?

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 4, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.

I'll start the list with summertime concert series and the Vancouver Wine and Jazz Festival at Esther Short Park. Then there's multiple local/national musicians playing at several nightclubs and Winery locations. Might I also add the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra at the Skyview Concert Hall??? There are also several concerts at other locations I haven't even mentioned such as at Clark College.

Anybody else have any ideas???

goldenoldie — October 4, 2013 at 7:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Holycrapola: I don't know of any stats, but I suspect there are large numbers of people attracted to Vancouver for its wide variety of churches with diverse religious and ethnic identities.

JohnK — October 4, 2013 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick & Manthou,

Definitely some behind the scenes politicking going on with the CRC!

The OR Senate leader wants Gov Inslee to make a statement saying that even though we aren't kicking in the funding, we'll still support the project through the agencies Inslee does control (presumably WSDOT). This is being countered by some (Benton, for example) who say that WSDOT does not have the authority to enter into agreements with other states without legislative approval.

Gov Kitz said that before he would call a special session on the new CRC, he wants the OR legislature to "hold public hearings to build support for the project." (Strange; I thought public hearings were to gather public input. But this is the same model applied by the CRC with their "public hearings", so....)

The WA Senate has their 10 city Transportation forum tour about half completed. The intent is to gather enough info to offer an alternative to the $10 billion plus plan the House put forth back during the last legislative session. News coverage is pretty sketchy. Bellevue was apparently heavily attended by locals who want more emphasis on public transportation options, to include rail and the ferries. The other location reports I found say numbers of attendees and little more. Sen King claims they're getting lots of input on options, and a lot of people who say we can't afford a 10 cents plus gas tax. Sen Eide says nothing on her page.

I ran across a Mercer Island source that says Gov Inslee is planning a special session for a Transportation bill in November. If true, that should prove interesting. The November elections have little chance of changing the political party control of the Legislature - the only races are three special elections for the Senate. (Two pit Repubs against each other, and the other has a Dem as the incumbent.) The Senate's Majority Coalition would have to have a defector or two, or they'd have to have a change from their previous position that light rail on the CRC is a NO GO.

Yep - This is definitely not a dead issue. My own take is that the full Federal funding will not be there, and that WA will have to sign back on as a paying sponsor for this project to happen. Also, like I said before, I believe the State Court is being pushed to render a decision that the CRC was previously decided on by the State government, and that the Senate cannot block funding needed to make it happen.

roger — October 4, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"There is an investigative story here somewhere. Anyone? Anyone? Beuhler?"

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 7:23 a.m.

I'm on it!

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 8:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone check out Boehner and House Reps live press conference a few minutes ago? I've never seen Boehner look worse. Bloodshot and teary-eyed to the max. Although he wasn't slurring his words as much as many times before.

This Cathy-McMorris -Rogers-GOP-Lapdog gets little mention in the basement. What a shame she represents our state. I've not once heard this government worker say anything but recite Tea Party talking points.

Republicans have a female deficit in their party the way it is. It's unfortunate the ones they do have, seemingly lack any original thought whatsoever.

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 4, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.

holycrapola — October 4, 2013 at 8:31 a.m.

Coffee houses that bring in local talent are needed also. Open up more places for folks to recite poetry, jam a bit, whatever it is and express themselves in creative ways. Something Portland features in many venues.

Music is the one common denominator that brings all faiths, all political parties, all colors, all whatever together and provides a common bond.

Pretty hard to argue politics & Jesus when the sweet sound of rock n roll is filling the air.

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Priceless!

///John Boehner Blamed For Shutdown In New 'Temper Tantrum' Ad To Air During Sunday Football///

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/john-boehner-shutdown-ad_n_4044042.html

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A belated welcome back from your furlough, Nails. I'm on my third full day - I suppose I'll have to find a couple of projects to fill my time, as I don't see either side ready to blink yet.

I read yesterday that only 40% of federal employees are out. Interesting - I didn't realize so many of us were "critical." Or perhaps this is part of the strategy to try to force an early resolution? Someone sitting at home has options, such as collecting unemployment or getting a part time job. But working without getting paid (on time)?

roger — October 4, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nail @ 8:28: Ha Ha Ha. :) An investigation with a happy ending....

I am not a prude about women who choose to make a living selling their services. Problem is: most of the women who work in these Asian foot massage parlors are bonded slaves, working against their will.

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 9:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Well there you go HC and nailingit, why don't the 2 of you join together and open a venue?
There are plenty of large empty buildings you could get (if zoned for such) open a coffee house that allows locals to read poetry, play music, serve teas and coffees.
Have a schedule for each day of the week.
Set aside a day for storybook time with Mommy's only with small kids, music for for teens, and seniors, heck even set aside a day call Teetotalers for those who like to have a cup of Tea or coffee while relaxing and reading a book or listening to poetry.
Then for the weekend have jam sessions. Where local artists could join together.
Lots of possibilities.

ELISI — October 4, 2013 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I don't know, Nails. I visited a few of the Georgetown (DC) coffee houses in my youth, and once in a blue moon trekked up to The Village. (My fave performer for that venue was an old timer named Dave Van Ronk). But sadly, I think The Couve is more supportive of places that hold wet T-shirt contests or have about 20 TVs with sports on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVTiDh...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — October 4, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.

I hear you manthou. Just to say, I'm a faithful husband who wouldn't use these services anyway. My comments are tongue in cheek..........THAT didn't sound quite right! :)

roger- I hope yours and others furloughs end soon. If republicans want to change the new health care law, then they need to do it over time and procedurally. Proper governing is one of the few things that keeps us from becoming a banana republic.

These guys are Chiquita bound!

ELISI- Great idea! You left out wet T-shirt nights. I think we could juggle the time and accommodate this great pairing of ideas. This deserves a better look. [8>O

"Love All, Serve All".

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 9:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

I think they've been here for a while.

My wife and a couple of her girl friends liked to get pedicures and get their nails done. Her friends moved and she got her cancer and couldn't drive (due to vision damage from a tumor), so I drove her to get this done. I got the impression these places were all staffed by Asian women (Vietnamese and a couple of Koreans), few of who had all that great a command of English. (Early on, I listened to the two carry on a nonstop conversation. On the way home, I asked my wife if she understood her. No - it seems both just talked. But that's a different topic - one that few men have ever understood.)

Anyhow, given that all these ladies were working in shops with one person running the show and collecting all the money, I got the impression they were indentured workers.

The massage controversy seems to be more of a clash between our laws and Asian culture. In Korea, massage was part of getting a haircut - and they all seemed to end it with jerking your head to one side to crack the bones (I wasn't having that, though people I knew claimed it helped in some way). Here one has to be licensed to do more than rub the hands, feet and ears. I'm sure that gets violated on a regular basis. But I doubt there's much (if any) of the back room "additional service" going on - we'd have had that investigative report if that was suspected.

roger — October 4, 2013 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I am an old folkie who spent my youth on Wells Street in Chicago's Old Town and actually heard Dave Van Ronk in 1967 there.

Gravelly voice like none other. Is he still alive?

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So - about three years ago I started getting mushrooms growing in my front yard and garden. I've googled, and it sounds like dandelions - no matter what you do, they'll show up. Moisture, drainage, spores blowing around from elsewhere, etc. One site said to thatch, because they're living on the decaying grass. (Until recently I always used a mulching mower, but I figured that was a good thing.) Thatching is way too much work.

Any suggestions?

roger — October 4, 2013 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — October 4, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.
"Last night, another factoid I learned about was that Vancouver Vitality, the "tea party" PAC in Clark County, just got a healthy infusion of $60,000 from some anonymous donor."

Under the 'less than surprising' category is the hypocrisy on the part of the 'anonymous' donor and his followers who spend a portion of those funds accusing others of a lack of transparency and openness.

JohnK — October 4, 2013 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - No, he died about 10 years ago. My old college roomie Murray is a member of the group that sponsors the Philly Folk Festival - He told me (quite a while back) that he saw one of Dave's last performances there.

There's another guy from that scene who's still performing - Tom Rush. Something from back in May.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl6uUm...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A glimmer of hope..

///House Democrats Will Unveil Discharge Petition To Force Vote On Government Funding Bill///

WASHINGTON -- House Democrats plan to announce Friday that they will try to force a vote to fully fund the government -- and end the shutdown -- with a procedural motion known as a discharge petition.

Democrats were expected to announce the news at a Friday afternoon press conference. The resolution would fund the government through Nov. 15, at the same levels as the Senate-passed continuing resolution. And, like the Senate bill, there would be no strings attached related to delaying or defunding Obamacare.

The effort, led by Reps. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) and George Miller (D-Calif.), has little chance of succeeding. The process can be time-consuming and it requires members of the majority party -- in this case, Republicans -- to buck their party leaders and sign a petition with the minority to force a bill to the floor. But it's one of the few things Democrats can do as the minority to try to force action.

If all 200 Democrats sign the petition, 18 Republicans would have to join them in order to hit 218, the magic number needed to move forward. It works to Democrats' favor that at least 21 Republicans support a "clean" funding bill. But declaring support for such a bill and signing onto a petition to force it to the House floor are two entirely different things.

Under the Democrats' plan, the soonest they could force a vote on a "clean" government funding bill is Oct. 14.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/discharge-petition-government-shutdown_n_4044967.html

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: Oh, jeez. Tom Rush. We are dating ourselves big time! Tom recorded my favorite Joni Mitchell composition of all time: Urge for Goin.'

Ironic that I never heard HER sing it. But he does it justice.

I lived in her hometown of Saskatoon for five years and understood her lyrics to the tune so well after spending my first 40 below winter there:

"Now the warriors of winter give a cold, triumphant shout.
All that stays is dyin'.
All that lives is gettin' out."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKfYw2...

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 3:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou/roger- You guys are talking about some world class talent for sure. Joni's always been up there on my list of favorites. Canucks rule the world of folk!

Don't know if you guys have heard about this book from Graham Nash. All about these terrible sinners from the 60's. :) (on my Christmas wish list)

Book review: Strippers, Neil Young And Joni Mitchell

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/10/04/strippers-neil-young-and-joni-mitchell/

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 6:02 p.m.

Seriously?

Three things that will make you (hopefully) deaf, dumb and blind.

hawkeye — October 4, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou - I used to go to The Bitter End in The Village - might have even been in the crowd when Tom was recorded doing his version of Who Do You Love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK7a_z...

But The Doors did it the best. I'm a rocker first.

roger — October 4, 2013 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 4, 2013 at 7:12 p.m. ??

Explain?

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 7:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, Young can't sing, (who told him he could?, I mean if he tried out he'd NEVER make it on American Idol). Neither would Joni although she's a little better than Neil. Yellow Taxi? Really? And strippers, well that could go both ways.

hawkeye — October 4, 2013 at 7:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails,

Not sure if these are the reviewer's words or were actually said by Nash, but I think they sum up the rest of CSNY quite well. "...holding together the epically addled Crosby, the egomaniacal Stephen Stills and the downright weird Neil Young through some wild years indeed."

Stills had a relationship for a while with one of my favorites - Judy Collins. (He wrote Suite Judy Blue Eyes about her.) She did a pretty good cover of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03xme7...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 7:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And, before I get out of my once a year folkie kick, here's Joni with Mary Travers and Cass Elliot, covering The Band's The Weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYAUE6is7I

roger — October 4, 2013 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit: Graham Nash's book is on my wish list. I cannot wait to read it.

hawkeye: Did you know that, when Neil Young was with Buffalo Springfield, they would not let him sing at first? That factoid came from a book written by his father. Young's voice grows on you, though. Or, at least it did me. I never got to see him live until about 10 years ago at the Schitz in PDX. He ambled out onstage, picked up an acoustic, and started to sing, "Tell me Why." My reaction to hearing his voice live: I surprised myself by crying. His dad said that his voice touches your heart. When I saw him play with CSN at the Rose Garden a couple of years later, he brought down the house with his rocker style. Unreal. It did not matter how he sounded. It just works. Nothing like it.

roger: I always revered The Bitter End as a mecca of sorts, but never had the pleasure. You East coast kids had access to all the greatest music. Philadelphia to NYC.

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 8 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Stills and Eric Clapton off of Stills' first solo album. I claim this as some of the best guitar playing ever recorded - would have loved to see this done live.

Go Back Home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd9VNl...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: I hate to admit it, but I spent some time this afternoon watching Joni Mitchell on YouTube. I saw that video you posted! Amazing. I had forgotten how beautiful Mary Travers was. I saw my first PP and M concert when I was 13 and caught them every time they were in town, up until her death. That's longevity. Peter's son has a store in Portland (The Monkey and the Rat) and he shows up here often for visits and mini-concerts and fundraisers.

Everyone is getting old......but the music lives on.

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Steve Stills daughter, Jen, lives in Portland, too. Afterall, it is the place where young (rich) people go to retire.......

manthou — October 4, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I mean if he tried out he'd NEVER make it on American Idol)."

hawk- I consider that a plus!

Neil, Joe Cocker, Dylan- Many have voices that are scraggly and worn, but life's experiences-soul-magic/ a combination? All make for an unique listening experience. I guess it's all about taste and perspective. From a personal standpoint, music has held me together at various crossroads, and Neil's music for listening & inspiration above most. What can I say. I love the guy's music and persona.

Successful crappy voices, inspire all us folks with crappy voices. :)

___

roger- Great ear. In guitar circles Stills has always been one of the best ever. "Captain Many Hands" rules!

A great experience for anyone with some time. One of the best documentary/concert films ever in my opinion. Moving. I found myself emoting at times.

Heart Of Gold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdBP0r...

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 8:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I also discovered a couple other clubs on my trips to NYC - CBGBs and Max's Kansas City. Saw these guys at Max's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AkDt...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And I always considered these guys the best of the punk bands. Unfortunately, CBGB's wasn't known for quality recordings. The lead singer - Stiv Bators - was a junkie who had the decency to get run over by a taxi in Paris. Johnny "Rotten" Lydon was an also ran compared to Stiv when it came to craziness.

Sonic Reducer - by The Dead Boys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHGQnY...

roger — October 4, 2013 at 9:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger- Lou Reed's "Rock and Roll Animal" is one of my most played recordings, just listened to it a couple of weeks ago matter of fact! Incredible music that can never be recaptured.

This forum is pretty cool. Nice to share this stuff, even though you guys are invisible.

We're getting old. But I for one am grateful for being able to appreciate this music as it was being birthed-right age at the right time.

nailingit — October 4, 2013 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


The greatest sang like crap - and nobody cared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu3GT6FXpOs

roger — October 4, 2013 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Sorry Nail. Still can't listen to him. Most of what I hear is out of tune. Southern Man? Seriously bad.

Now if you want to listen to a guy that can at least carry a tune in a bucket and put some meaning behind it, try my old friend Harry Chapin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yjxWf...

hawkeye — October 4, 2013 at 9:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Blue Oregon has an interesting article regarding the non-partisan cooperation of Oregon legislators that allowed it to pass several highly controversial pieces of legislation during last weeks special session. It's amazing what can get done when the bomb throwers, nay sayers, and sparkle ponies are not allowed center stage.

http://www.blueoregon.com

JohnK — October 5, 2013 at 7:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Watched some real TV journalism last night on Aljazeera America. Two former Congressmen were being interviewed, both having served longer than 12 years. Don't ask me their names, it was too late and I was concentrating on their words.

They made three good points about today's Congress:

1. More than 45% of Congress (I need to check that number, but it was in this range) have served LESS than 2 years. In other words, they are green around the gills.

2. These new whippersnappers are ignoring the formal bill making process, where you hash things out in committee and find common ground.

3. Repubs and Dems in Congress brought their wives to town in the good ol' days and they all used to socialize on their off time together: dinners, social events, etc. They got to know each other and got to like each other as human beings. It was harder to de-humanize your opponent then. You could differ, but you did so respectfully and with an endgame of compromise.

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK: As a former long-time Oregonian, I remember BlueOregon well. Thanks for the link.

I truly am impressed with the way the Oregon legislature pulled it together. Gives me some hope that they will do something good about the CRC, too.

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal


JohnK: love "sparkle ponies!" I'm gonna steal that......

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 8:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou --- You mentioned watching Joni Mitchell videos. "Good Friends" was filmed in NW Portland by Jim Blashfield in 1985. My son was a gofer for Blashfield for this video and it was a secret who the singer was. I knew Blashfield but never asked. One day just before filming my son casually asked if I'd ever heard of Joni Mitchell "or some name like that" because that was the singer. I let him know she was a big deal. He was 19 at the time and into Pink Floyd [not that there's anything wrong with that]. Several years ago, he and his wife treated me to CSNY at the Amphitheater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWPrNA...

langenthal — October 5, 2013 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal


langenthal: Oh, my! May our children enjoy the music greats we did in our youth. I don't think it bodes well for them, however, :) I had a student ask me who Neil Young was once and why he should care. :)

Our sons, remarkably, enthusiastically shared live concert experiences with us only twice in their years living at home: the first was Tom Petty. The second: Eric Clapton. One of my sons later took himself to a Neil Young Bridge School fundraiser in the Bay Area during college and became a convert.

I get a kick out of seeing 20 somethings mingling with 50-60 somethings at some of these venues. For a musician to appeal to a multi-generational crowd: extraordinary!

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


On to matters-of-gravity (although I could spend days discussing music of the 60's and 70's):

Pro-522 proponents have been Anti-Slapped, in a perversion of this free speech-for-the-little-guy law. The anti-522 folks are well-heeled and getting ugly.

Make sure you take the time to read the comments. This is outrageous and will muzzle the free speech of us all:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/10/04/judge-slaps-house-moms-with-10000-fine-after-grocery-industry-brings-anti-slapp-suit

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 9:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou: -- I first saw it used to perfectly describe Michelle Bachmann, but then Sarah Palin came along and co-opted the description.

JohnK — October 5, 2013 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I am all for promoting Clark County, but David Madore's cutesy little flyer smells like a cheap used car sales gimmick. An educated developer/business is going to read this and say, "Clark County is in trouble if they are shilling this much. Best I avoid it."

Check it out at the VBJ:

http://www.vbjusa.com/news/top-stories/9543-comm-madore-launches-county-marketing-campaign

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Too much Manthou, so I will leave my Forum friends in peace with this last Madore tidbit:

VBJ references his new 501c3 effort: Prosper and Thrive dot org:

Now he will be doing County business on a personal, nonprofit website. There must be a conflict in there somewhere. Lets him circumvent established County procedures and policies, as he loves to do.

http://prosperandthrive.org

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Our system of democracy is not only undermined by shysters like Cruz, but Americans who refuse to give this situation an take honest look.

///Sense Of Unease Growing Around The World As U.S. Government Looks Befuddled///

But in interviews with academics, government leaders and diplomats, faith that the U.S. will always be there is fraying more than a little.

"The paralysis of the American government, where a rump in Congress is holding the whole place to ransom, doesn't really jibe with the notion of the United States as a global leader," said Michael McKinley, an expert on global relations at the Australian National University.

The political turbulence in Washington and potential economic bombshells still to come over the U.S. government shutdown and a possible debt default this month have sent shivers through Europe. The head of the European Central Bank, Mario Draghi, worried about the continent's rebound from the 2008 economic downturn.

"We view this recovery as weak, as fragile, as uneven," Draghi said at a news conference.
Germany's influential newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung bemoaned the U.S. political chaos.

"At the moment, Washington is fighting over the budget and nobody knows if the country will still be solvent in three weeks. What is clear, though, is that America is already politically bankrupt," it said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/world-us-government_n_4047613.html

nailingit — October 5, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou-Anyone:

Is there still a recall effort to dump David Madore back to the confines of U.S. Digital where he belongs? In terms of principle and practicality, I'm opposed to this type of blowback (recall) 99% of the time.

But David is making me a 1 Percenter.

What a detriment to our community he's become.

nailingit — October 5, 2013 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nail: The recall effort is fairly dead. Too difficult a hill to climb. Hope is being poured into the Freeholders (yay, rog!) and the Home Rule Charter.

MUST SEE video. How the "millenial" children we raised see us Boomers:

Millenials: We Suck and We're Sorry

Sending it to my millenials now.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTU...

manthou — October 5, 2013 at 2:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal


All righty then...who is behind the writes on the Press Talk column this week??? Lou? LOU...??? Are you okay??? Is everything alright???

Just kidding.

Seriously Mister Lou, I enjoyed reading your Press Talk today. A good summation of "stupid stuff."

goldenoldie — October 5, 2013 at 7:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal




This was posted on Lou's article today, (don't so stupid stuff).. in one of the comments..everyone should read it.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2013/10/deadlock.html

ELISI — October 5, 2013 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — October 5, 2013 at 10:14 p.m.

This was NOT one of the stupid ones.

hawkeye — October 5, 2013 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — October 5, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.

Just wanted to say I enjoyed your vid. Boomers are the first to point a finger at our younger generation without understanding or acknowledging our roles in history.

I like what I see. Smarter, better educated, and more accepting of those around them.

Now if they can only fix some of our mistakes...

nailingit — October 5, 2013 at 11:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi, Hawk, if I read the link correctly, it was a pretty strong condemnation of the house Republicans and their tactics to defund an existing law.
Did not see it on Lou's article as comment/link so appreciate the link. Good reads! Well reasoned write on minority and majority ruling.

luvithere — October 6, 2013 at 5:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The Columbian endorsed Mayor Leavitt. Not a surprise. Smart. Mr. Turlay is an honorable public servant. Just not ready to be mayor. Great video of the Editorial Board questioning of both candidates. Old time journalism at its best. Probing questions. Such a great way to see how each candidate handles such pressure.

Madore's new 501c3 is his attempt to develop an alternative to CREDC and Identity Clark County. He just needs to add a disclaimer to it, so that folks don't confuse it with a county-sanctioned and operated website. When he posts County materials on it, it is obfuscation.

Transparency, Mr. Madore. Honesty. Add that to Prosper and Thrive. :)

By the way, is he raising money for Clark County's general fund? Where does the money go?

manthou — October 6, 2013 at 7:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye and Louvithere,

Great writes for sure!

I don't see it as a condemnation on all of the Repubs, I see it as condemnation on the Tea Party sect of the Repubs for what they are doing and (more so on) us, the voters for allowing it!
The writer clearly warns of the extreme powers in both parties.

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 7:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Anyone-

'Education Nation' (town hall) now broadcasting live on MSNBC.

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Elisi, you are right. 'twas early when I read it. Not all Republicans. This is truly what happens when a section controls the rest. In this case, tea trumps sanity. Sure seems the party is made up of only them, wish the rest would find their ... To stand up to them again and allow cooler heads back into the game. Are there any left?

luvithere — October 6, 2013 at 9:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal


With this shutdown, I'm not sure what's worse. To have a minority of extremists (who actually parrot main stream republican talking points) control this situation, or a majority, who are so worried about keeping their government jobs they're willing to go to these extremes. We'll find out in a year for sure.

Maybe Aaron can grab his boss (when Lou isn't cavorting with our communities elite) for a moment, and explain to him there are folks less fortunate than him feeling pain from this shutdown.

///Strictly Business: GOP tack dumb and dumber///
By Aaron Corvin, Columbian port & economy reporter

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/oct/06/gop-tack-dumb-and-dumber/#.UlLkKBwU66Y

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1374975_10151608085487271_1464673999_n.jpg

Can't post graphics here but click on this link.

hawkeye — October 6, 2013 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal


What are you trying to say hawkeye? Of course the people take it hard when there's dysfunction. It's understanding complex issues and solving them is what counts. And when those problems don't get solved, of course there is blame to be assigned.

"Did the American people win or lose today?"

I suppose that depends on who you ask.

Right now there's a group who is generally excited/happy about this dysfunction.

Just ask Republican leader Michele Bachman, as well as many others:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/66021/government-shutdown-8-people-who-are-actually-happy-about-it

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I hope we see some more polling other than one with a decidedly left slant. This does provide some interesting data concerning vulnerable districts.

///GOP In Grave Danger Of Losing House In 2014, PPP Polls Show///

http://front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/PPP_House_Survey.pdf

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


luvithere — October 6, 2013 at 9:35 a.m

There are some of us left Luvithere and want compromise and this whole mess done and over with. Isn't that the key to this to begin with is both sides compromising so in the end it is what is good for all, not just what a few think is good?

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 10:36 a.m

There is a minority of extremists in both parties Nail and these 2 factions are to blame for the mess we/this country is in. Both think they are right and the other guy is wrong.

I think it was Timrick that said in days past, the 2 parties worked together, hashed out problems, wined and dined each other, got to know the other side of the aisle and came up with what was right and just for all of America. Now the question is,.. What the hell has happened and why have we the voters allow the elected critters to become the way they are?

hawkeye — October 6, 2013 at 11:16 a.m

Perfect!

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal


ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.

"There is a minority of extremists in both parties Nail and these 2 factions are to blame for the mess we/this country is in. Both think they are right and the other guy is wrong."

Feel free to say who are the extremists on the left side of the aisle who are responsible, not only this govt shutdown, but threatening not raising the debt ceiling. (paying bills we've already incurred)

"I think it was Timrick that said in days past, the 2 parties worked together, hashed out problems, wined and dined each other, got to know the other side of the aisle and came up with what was right and just for all of America. Now the question is,.. What the hell has happened and why have we the voters allow the elected critters to become the way they are?"

Since you are citing timerick's well thought post, cite the rest of it...

"These younger Repubs. are like young bulls. They want to snort and paw the ground. They grew up never having to give ground. I believe it will come back to bite them in the end. Give me the old school Repubs. At least things got done for the betterment of all of us."
timerick — October 2, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.

We won't agree on this I'm sure. So in essence (and to keep it light) not much more to say. There is a like minded nexus in this forum who seem to agree on about everything, to include a "They're all to blame!!!" train of thought regardless of circumstances, to include this latest stunt from House Republicans.

I honestly could not interpret the value/meaning of hawkeye — October 6, 2013 at 11:16 a.m post. To me it just stated the obvious consequences of poor governing.

There must be some value I'm not seeing.

"Perfect!" ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.

You must see it. What is it?

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 3:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal


What a beautiful day! Yard work sure gets easier as you get older. ;)

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail,

The link is a saying which says..

Every time there is a major decision to be made on an issue, the news reports go something like,

"The Democrats scored a major political victory today" or "The Republicans soundly defeated the Democrats today."

Well screw the Democrats and Republicans - the real question that needs to be asked when the dust settles each and every time is..

" Did the American people win or lose today?"

The important point is, that the PEOPLE win. It's not about what party has won, it's important that what they vote on benefits all of the people.

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 4:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 3:33 p.m

We harvested the last of the green beans, cucumbers, tomatoes and the zucchini in the garden, mowed the lawn and put away the deck furniture yesterday.
Today we cleaned the garden beds out, and I started drying herbs from the garden.
Next will be cutting down my 10 rose bushes and putting mulch on them and around the ferns.

Now we wait for the leaves..oh the leaves..we have one maple in the back yard been told it's very close if not over 100 yrs old the other is a crimson maple. We will have leaves to fill the yard debris bin for several weeks once they start to fall.

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


We started with cleanup also. Hours yesterday, hours today, and the dent is small. Sure looks like stuff grew more than ever this year. I need three dry weekends minimum for this. But the colors on maples are coming out nicely.

luvithere — October 6, 2013 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal



"...it's important that what they vote on benefits all of the people."

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.

Of course that's next to impossible. A law or program, while benefitting one group, many times can't and won't benefit the other. It's the nature of Democracy. It's the nature of politics. However it does bring us back to full circle.

And back to square one. :) And the role of government. And the opinions. And the Parties. And the ideologies. And the...

It's why we have elections.

It so happens house republicans cannot admit defeat. Both in elections, and with national opinion. Last election republicans lost seats in the house and senate, and a Dem president was decisively re-elected, largely on the issues of the day. Let this Dem majored Congress & President govern. And if the majority of 'we the people', feel it's not being done correctly, then vote them out.

George Will today took this posture today regarding the ACA. That is quit obstructing and let the Dems own it. Let's see where it takes us.

Times are changing. Demographics are changing. Our country, as well as the world are evolving.

From gay marriage, to choice, to climate change, to science, to waning religious participation, to transportation needs, to the economy, to immigration, to ever changing demographics...

No doubt these are tough times for our conservative friends, who by nature, resist change. If the tables were turned, progressives/liberals would have a hard time acclimating also.

I'm reminded of the Borg's admonition; "Resistance Is Futile."

I'll say that it's nice to have a civil/good conversation with you ELISI, even if we do disagree on most.

So. Did the American people win or lose today?

Yes & No. :)

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 5:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'll say that it's nice to have a civil/good conversation with you ELISI, even if we do disagree on most.

So. Did the American people win or lose today?

Yes & No. :)

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 5:58 p.m

All it takes Nail is being civil and showing a bit of respect for others in their opinion. Yep we do disagree on many issues, but there are those time you and I see eye to eye.

Did the American people win or lose today? IMO They lost.

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 6:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ya gotta love it. Does Shep still work for this network? If so, he's been on a long vacation.

///Fox News' Anna Kooiman Falls For Parody About Obama Funding Muslim Museum///

Fox News host Anna Kooiman fell for a fake story that said President Obama is using his own money to keep a museum dedicated to Muslim culture open during the government shutdown.

The government has been shut down since Tuesday. The co-hosts of "Fox and Friends Saturday" lamented the closure of the World War II Memorial, which Kooiman claimed "doesn't seem fair especially" because "President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket for the museum of Muslim culture."

The fake report came from National Report, a parody news site. The story said that Obama told reporters earlier this week that the shutdown was "a great time to learn about the faith of Islam."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/06/fox-news-anna-kooiman-obama-parody_n_4053994.html

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 6:44 p.m.

I hope they fired her, nobody that stupid should be on TV news. I don't care what network.

hawkeye — October 6, 2013 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal


holycrapola — October 6, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.

They've been mining on Livingston Mountain for years, holy. The company involved is asking to expand their operations. BTW, it's referred to as Livingston Mountain Quarry, just to let ya know.

goldenoldie — October 6, 2013 at 7:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


hawkeye — October 6, 2013 at 7:16 p.m.

Amen. But Murdoch probably gave her a raise. The damage has been done. Besides, if stupid was the standard, they'd have to fire most of their staff!

___

///Dennis Ross, GOP Rep: 'Pride' Is Why Republicans Won't Budge On Government Shutdown///

WASHINGTON -- With the government shutdown in its fifth day, many Republicans have conceded the fight is no longer about Obamacare. Rep. Dennis Ross (R-Fla.) added his name to the list on Saturday, saying the matter now boils down to "pride."

“Republicans have to realize how many significant gains we’ve made over the last three years, and we have, not only in cutting spending but in really turning the tide on other things," Ross told The New York Times. "We can’t lose all that when there’s no connection now between the shutdown and the funding of Obamacare."

"I think now it’s a lot about pride," he added.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/dennis-ross-government-shutdown_n_4050231.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

{{{{{Deja Vu}}}}}

Remember this?

///Newt Gingrich, crybaby: The famous Daily News cover explained///

This is petty," Gingrich confessed. "I'm going to say up front it's petty, but I think it's human. When you land at Andrews and you've been on the plane for 25 hours and nobody has talked to you and they ask you to get off by the back ramp . . . you just wonder, where is their sense of manners, where is their sense of courtesy?"

To Gingrich, the professor of history, this was one of the snubs of the century, ranking, he said, with the time Charles Evans Hughes stiffed Hiram Johnson of the California Progressive Party back in 1916, a slight that cost Hughes the California vote and the presidency. And it was this disrespect, Gingrich continued, that caused him to send the President two temporary financing and spending bills he knew that Clinton would have to veto thus shutting down the federal government.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/pageviews/2012/01/newt-gingrich-crybaby-the-famous-daily-news-cover-explained

nailingit — October 6, 2013 at 7:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal


MEANWHILE, most of the DOD people who were furloughed go back to work tomorrow. All I got done was mowing and putting the moss control fertilizer on the lawn. I was figuring at least another week off. So much for going on the roof and demossing (is that a word?) tomorrow.

So, all that crying that government employees were being victimized by the shutdown has resulted in talk that we'll probably get paid for the time we missed (at least in DOD). Hmmm... conflict time. Part of me feels guilty - getting paid for not working goes against that Puritan work ethic I was raised with. But part of me is digging the (you know) out of this - this 61 year old white male is FINALLY able to claim victimhood and reap the benefits.

But most of me is just disgusted - people are not real people to that crowd in DC - we're just one more pawn in that power game being played.

(Wonder what Editor Lou would say about federal employees getting paid while furloughed? He has a good time slamming state and county employees - Think he'd like to carry on about this for a while? )

roger — October 6, 2013 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I succumbed to an impulse buy and got a juicer. I happen to like V8 juice, and after finding out the veggies that go in tried to make my own batch. It was horrible. I promise to eat all my veggies - even the nasty old broccoli - Just PLEASE don't let me do that again. Think I'll stick with fruit juices.

roger — October 6, 2013 at 8:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — October 6, 2013 at 8:11 p.m

Oh my LOL LOL LOL !!!!!

One of my older brothers got me to drink carrot juice once....GAG!! Never ever again! I will EAT my carrots thank you very much!

ELISI — October 6, 2013 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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