Open forum, Jan 13-19



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Happy new week to everyone.

Nails, roger, tim and of course, kn_dalai as well as anybody else reading along the discussion AND writes regarding C-Tran, TriMet and the failed CRC crossing ideals of our corrupted leadership...

(yes, I'm being harsh on purpose when it comes to who's in charge)

After reviewing an interesting video presented by Mister Jim Karlock on Lew Waters' wordpress blog, it is obvious the contract signed by the majority on the C-Tran Board should be nullified. The corruption is deeper than the Earth's core yet people still blindly support everything these people are doing. Just how can anybody sit back and watch this BULL HOCKEY continue???

As long as this transit agency of ours continues to destroy the identity of Clark County's transit infrastructure with their corrupted backroom dealings and lame decisions, I will not only invest my bus fare towards either taxi service or new walking shoes rather than putting another penny towards mass transit, I will also vote NO on any funding requests by C-Tran.

It is unfathomable, the idiocy of it all. It's no wonder our county/city infrastructure is failing. People, wake up and smell the coffee. What you're smelling now is certainly NOT arabica beans!!!

goldenoldie — January 13, 2014 at 6:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal

And a happy new week to you also goldenoldie. When will you (or other concerned citizens) bring charges against C-TRAN and other nefarious entities?


Swamp drain. By the time they're done, they'll be digging up Paulie's body from the Sopranos.

-Feds investigating Christie’s use of money intended for Sandy relief-

Did Christie use Sandy relief funds to make tourism ads featuring him and his family?’s_use_of_money_intended_for_sandy_relief/and his family?

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Today's "In Our View" is interesting.
Though I do wonder if the Columbo isn't using the issue to take yet another poke at Madore.

Bennett must not get the e-version of the paper. Everytime she has a LttE published the commenters hammer the heck out of her.

Drift — January 13, 2014 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal


1) No, I was not referring to you, about lite rail. This may come as a surprise to you, but I do not spend time thinking about you. It’s not about you nailingit:):):):):)
2) In order to clear this Libertarian matter up, please link to some reputable source about the Libertarians past promotion of lite rail, rather than allude to previous posts. Frankly nailingit, I seldom spend any time looking at your very baised links:):):):):) It would seem to me to go against the political outlook of Libertarians to do so, and am interested in what you are alleging.
3) It is not me who spends my days following pop culture politics. Channel surfing, web surfing or listening to radio:):):):):) Nor do I have a need to post links from one biased rag after another, as you do. You have very obviously brainwashed yourself over the years:):):):):) You exhibit a pattern of making far too many assumptions. As in #1 above:):):):):)
4) Insults? You mean like “knuckledraggers” and “luddites”? :):):):):) To mention just a very few.

kn_dalai — January 13, 2014 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 9:44 a.m.

Good mornin', nails!!! Glad you asked the question you did. All you need to do is keep abreast of the REAL news, not the news on a reel with the little spin to it!!! Things are a cookin'...and it ain't in my kitchen, lol.

Stay tuned, my friend.

goldenoldie — January 13, 2014 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Is that the same Jim Karlock who ran for Oregon state rep a few years ago.? He has the website 'debunking portland' and is the chair of the Libertarian Party of Multnomah County.

jacjak — January 13, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

goldenoldie — January 13, 2014 at 11:38 a.m.

Go for the gold! Bring these evildoers to justice! We are behind you!

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — January 13, 2014 at 11 a.m.

Please review the end of last weeks post. Google can be your friend if you give it the opportunity. Until then you'll most likely stew as you insist on a response, get frustrated and angry for a time, then I'll supply you a proper response, you'll say nonsense, then you'll slide out the door for a few weeks. An all to familiar scenario. (I like your dropping in more often and would like to see you stick around longer-leave your ego at the alter and do the work) Without sounding too condenscending-not-study your libertarian history a bit more concerning urbanization/trains-coal & electric. Get back to me with a fresh perspective. I'd rather see you act on your own volition rather than piggy backing others research. g-o-o-g-l-e.

I'd say I didn't mean to rustle your feathers, but that would be a bit disingenuous. You are fun when you get exited and let your :):):) out. Who Let The Dogs Out?-WHO-WHO!?! (And I thought country music was a guilty pleasure...)....:)

As for your #)3 thing. You've stated in the past you enjoy Rush Limbaugh and admonished me for not understanding the depth & meaning of Rand's writings. Like they're sacred, deep or something. :))

Quit back tracking. Own who you are and what you believe. (OMG! I could produce self-help DVD's!)

About timerick asking me to care about his position-and the very next post you state, "They don’t care timerick. They don’t give a damn." In context, (admittedly this has always been a weak spot on your part when conversing with you) it was a cheap shot. I've stated to timerick in the past I wish him and his business the very best. He's perhaps the most thoughtful/kind poster who visits this forum and has my respect. In addition, he and manthou have provided this forum much insight to the CRC, both pluses and minus's, from a business owners perspective.

You are so high maintenance!

Since when is being called a luddite an insult? Someone on the face book side used the term "laggards". I thought that was pretty amusing & appropriate also.

Quit your excuses! Own your conservatism!!

Holy Laggarding Luddites!!!

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

I'm a Luddite, nailingit, and proud of it. :) I have absolutely reached my brick wall in that department. My brain's ability to learn more new technology has come to a screeching halt. I am reaching for the nostalgia tools: 1940's Singer sewing machine, a 1950's rotary dial phone, and a Royal typewriter for comforting starters. I still don't own a smart phone and wouldn't use 90 percent of the apps or tools if I did.

I did cave to a Nook and wish I had chosen a Kindle, but I'm stuck and don't want to learn a new system. I miss the heft and smell of a book, but like carrying a virtual library with me when I travel.

Luddites United.

manthou — January 13, 2014 at 4:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Thanks Nail I don't know about how thoughtful I am. I have been working with the public for over 48 years. We don't make everyone happy but we try. I have found over the years that if some disagree with you it is much better to explain your side. It also means that you have to be able hear the other side also. Because we may disagree does not have to be a verbal sling match. To me there are no winners in that kind of argument. I have been and will continue to be open to all sides. Learn the information and go with what I feel is a right decision. I am 64 years old and believe me I have made more than my share of wrong decisions. Most likely I will continue to make some more. Such is life.

timerick — January 13, 2014 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 13, 2014 at 4:14 p.m.

I'm a closet Luddite myself! More Luddite than Laggard I'd say. So many things have changed, and most certainly not always for the better. Lately I'm thinking, "I'm all that" :) because I'm learning a new (for me) home system for phone, internet, and TV. I completely cut Comcast out of my life and am surviving! I depended on them for all things communication.

This wireless stuff via phone/laptop to internet to TV and back is pretty cool, and HD with antenna pick up is more of a vivid pic. Still a lot to learn.

Who said an old dog can't learn new tricks?

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick — January 13, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.

Couldn't agree more about listening to others. A lesson I need to pay attention to.

You've got a few years on me, but not many!

Feel the force Obi Tim Kenobi.....

Join us.

nailingit — January 13, 2014 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I'm wondering the same as nailingit. Where are the lawsuits? Why hasn't your mouthpiece Waters filed or is he all talk and no walk? Here's an idea, why don't YOU ask him, since you guys are so close.

Hawkman — January 13, 2014 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal

We are, Hawkman????? Funny, in all the meetings I've attended...I've never even met him. No need to kill the messenger. At least he has the bawls to stand up and shout bring the real facts to the table. That's more than I can say for SOME people here in Clark County.

goldenoldie — January 13, 2014 at 8:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yah, bawls to stand up (from his computer) and put "REAL FACTS" (as he sees them) on the table. I've read Waters for years and the only facts he knows are the ones he makes up.

Ever seen him file any complaints? Seen him in the courtroom? Nope. All Waters ever does is complain on his blog (since he got the boot from the "C") .

He's no better than anyone else.

Hawkman — January 13, 2014 at 9:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey drift, this wasn't you, was it?

Hawkman — January 14, 2014 at 3:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey JJ,

Does that mean it's fair game to take out Texas cars here?

Hawkman — January 14, 2014 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

HB 2322, just introduced, would prohibit local governments (hear that, Clark County?) from prohibiting pot businesses.

There is a link to comment on this bill, so let your voices be heard:;=2013

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Zombie CRC

The Oregon legislature heard from INVITED witnesses today on the Oregon-only CRC:

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 5:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 5:35 p.m.

I couldn't help but notice nine out of ten sponsors of the bill are Democrat.

And some say Dems have little respect for states rights.....

nailingit — January 14, 2014 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — January 14, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.

Really. Californians aren't too popular - They're known for moving to cheaper places, and then wanting to change them to be more like California. (I think that applies more to those from SoCal). When I lived in Phoenix in the late 70s people used to wish for the Big One to come along and turn Yuma into a seaside resort - And I think they were only half joking. And who was that Oregon Gov who said they can visit but then have to go back home? If they've spread to Texas and Louisiana - it's like that proverbial plague of locusts.

roger — January 14, 2014 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — January 14, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.

"said Bill Whittle, a Fox News guest, Pajamas Media commentator and former National Review Online contributor."

I wonder if Fox will let him off his leash for their red meat audience. It's amazing just how stupid adults can be.

nailingit — January 14, 2014 at 6:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 5:46 p.m.,

This is the part that really caught my attention.

"Some members of the committee expressed concerns about whether all the agreements can be completed and if Oregon would be responsible for any cost overruns.
"Strickland said the Oregon Department of Transportation would take steps to mitigate such risks, includng contracting with third parties that would assume such liabilities."

Are they going to allow that third party to run the tolling and set rates?

Or are they going to find a new project manager (to replace Evans and Associates)? And then allow them to blow off buying local and hire non-union labor? Here's someone whose name I'd expect to pop up again if they do decide to move forward. Parsons Brinckerhoff is the big leagues with this kind of planning and construction.

roger — January 14, 2014 at 6:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 14, 2014 at 6:22 p.m.

Nine out of ten are also from the Olympia-Tacoma-Seattle area. I figure they're just desperate to find any source of tax dollars possible. And the picture of that lady who represents the west side of the Sound around the Bremerton area makes her looked loaded. Hmmm....

roger — January 14, 2014 at 7:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 6:32 pm: I remember the California migration to my little burgh in Clackamas County, circa 1988. All of a sudden, developers were leveling little bungalows and erecting looming pink stucco McMansions, just like the immigrants loved in SoCal. Stucco that melted and disintegrated in our NW weather after the purchasers signed on the dotted line. I also remember a SoCal neighbor who leveled every tree on her property. I told her: "You can mow down them all and it still won't look like Orange County."

Your comment at 6:54 PM: Good reading between the lines. Who knows? I thought their invitation only hearing was an attempt to separate the "signal" from the "noise" a la Nate Silver. But they probably have something up their sleeves, as you suggest, to grease the skids (and palms). Cannot wait to see who/what it is.

nailingit: So, all of Clark County will be flocking to da 'Couve for their green ambrosia, since it appears that the city is not going to fight the law. Wonder if CC will cave?

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 7:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Hey drift, this wasn't you, was it?" asked Hawk.

No, man. I have better sense than introducing a flammable gas in a confined space.
And I'm not a big "concentrates" fan anyway. Though I did recently use 190 proof grain alcohol as a solvent and then boiled off the alcohol. The resulting goo will go into caps to treat my nocturnal leg cramps. I did the "BOOM!" part outdoors. No, BOOM! Yeah, pretty boring, eh?

"Cooke said he feared this sort of situation after the passage of Initiative 502."

And this is where the Foghorn Leghorn joke comes in, "Forunately, I keep my feathers numbered for just such an occasion."

"Some people say these marijuana-related explosions are an unintended consequence of legalizing marijuana. I'd argue that it was entirely predictable,” he said. "I expect we'll see more of these explosions and more people being injured. I hope no innocent children become victims."

Ol' Cooke never passes up an opportunity to extol the 'evils', do he?
What of the children!!!!

Stupid is as stupid does, man.

Drift — January 14, 2014 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit and roger,

Republican’s tend to be totalitarian on the social issues, while Democrat’s tend to be totalitarian on the economic issues. Libertarian and Totalitarian is the political spectrum. Not Liberal and Conservative, which are a mixture of both. Republicans supporting drug prohibition laws, is to be expected.

kn_dalai — January 14, 2014 at 8:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"nailingit: So, all of Clark County will be flocking to da 'Couve for their green ambrosia, since it appears that the city is not going to fight the law. Wonder if CC will cave?"

I'm not the nail. I just thought I'd mention that before offering the following:

manthou, I predict the VanWa zoning and planning commission will make the rules so onerous as to accomplish the same goal as a ban. They've been there, and done that, all-the-ready.

Drift — January 14, 2014 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift: Oops. Thanks for the correction. And your prediction will probably come to fruition. :(

What do you think about HB 2322? The new one that tells local government: hands off the state pot law?

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

As far as a legal action over the fast one that Lamm, Wolfendale and the gang of five pulled over that Tri-met contract: the only one I heard talk about a lawsuit is C. Crain. I know some think that’ s funny, and maybe it is considering the costs involved, but I’ve wondered if the court will even listen to a case like this since lite rail into Clark County is a moot subject, for now. It also seems to me that Clark County would have legal standing to bring such a suit if Oregon goes ahead with the CRC and expects to enforce the C-tran Tri-met contract.

kn_dalai — January 14, 2014 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — January 14, 2014 at 8:58 p.m.

Well, apparently Patty Murray has the do-re-mi for the rail. Now to see if Orygun wants to run it in. I have to admit, those to the South of us seem to have their heads on straight in Salem. They don't seem to get into the radical discussions that those in Olympia get into. Maybe if they locked Benton out of the chambers they could accomplish something.

Hawkman — January 14, 2014 at 10:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bully politics: Chris Christie shut down a public TV station that was hard on him?

WWBD? What would Benton do, if he could. :)

manthou — January 15, 2014 at 4:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou asks, "What do you think about HB 2322? The new one that tells local government: hands off the state pot law?"

I'm a tad ambivalent.
It'll take a 2/3 vote to modify 502's funds dispursal. If that fails then it could send the opposite message then what the bill is intended to accomplish. Ferguson should just issue an opinion warning municipalities a ban would likely be defeated in court. Or something like that.

The hearing I'll be watching this morning at 8:00 is HB 2149 (Health Care and Wellness Committee). That one would institute a 'patient' registry, and more (or less, depending on how you look at it).

The state has put itself between a rock and a hard place. By all appearances it is considering throwing medicinal cannabis under the bus in an effort to maximize the return on recreational. In order to not look like a bunch of heartless sadists the claim is patients will have 'medicine' available at the licensed retail outfits.

Municipalities banning stores throws a big wrench in its diabolical plan.

Drift — January 15, 2014 at 6:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 15, 2014 at 4:20 a.m.

Only yesterday I came across the word 'schadenfreuda'. Heard it while watching a program on the Deadly Sins, and looked it up. Now, there it is in the C Christie story you posted. I must have missed it all along, or its use is becoming more popular, as there does seem to be a lot of 'joy in the pain of others' lately. I like the word, but need Luvithere to help w/ pronunciation.

jacjak — January 15, 2014 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Schadenfreude? Ja, that's a really good word and means so much. (Easy to pronounce for me, btw.).
That gleeful, warm, fuzzy feeling when bad things happen to those you don't like. Might not be the best feeling, but I bet we all experience it. I had a ton of it when Romney forgot to write a concession speech and lost. I will have lots of it when Benton gets the boot.

luvithere — January 15, 2014 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hey, what the heck is going on over here? Anything interesting?

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 15, 2014 at 2:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hiya, Lou. How goes it? Are you close to hiring Erik Hidle's replacement on the Clark County beat? What used to be a routine assignment has taken on all sorts of drama in the past year, eh? The Oregonian fired a whole load of veteran reporters, I hear, as of Jan. You must have a good group of candidates from which to choose.

luvithere and jacjak: The Germans have another phrase that I have loved for years: Sturm and Drang. Lots of it going around these days, too, with a big helping of schadenfruede. I'll dance with you, luvithere, when Boss Hogg sails off into the sunset. He is on intermittent leave right now and had to re-classify someone else's job description in Clark County in order to "take over" when he is in Olympia. Absolutely nutty way to run government responsibly. Benton was relieved of his duties on the Transportation Committee this session and Annette Cleveland is on it. That's good news.

manthou — January 15, 2014 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal

You could read the comments, Lou, and decide for yourself. Myself, I don't feel qualified to answer your question.

Drift — January 15, 2014 at 3:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal

There are a number of qualified candidates out there. How it all will fall out and who would be on what beat remains to be seen.

Lou Brancaccio (Columbian Staff) — January 15, 2014 at 4:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 15, 2014 at 3:32 p.m.

Good update there. I am already feeling schadenfreudig again.

luvithere — January 15, 2014 at 4:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Please hire someone that will do a really big expose (that’s “expose” but with that little doo hickey thing over the top of the second e, I think it’s French or somethin’) on Mayor Leavitt. We need to know ALL about the lawsuit he threatened Terrence Jeffries with. And I’m not talking about just A story. Noooooo! I’m talking about a story every day! For the next ten years or so. Maybe two.

Even better would be an even bigger expose (remember that e thing) over how fast government can move, when certain government employees want to sign a deal with Tri met, REALLY FAST. Faster than the sped of light. Or even the Speed of light! That’s pretty fast – I think.

There was a little confusion here, a while back, over the names Lew and Lou. So I figured that confusion could be cleared up with a double emphasis, so to speak. Of course it’s a term of endearment; like the M & M boys.

kn_dalai — January 15, 2014 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal

What are the requirements for a "guest column," Lou? Would you having the empty space meet one? A one-off deal, mind you. I could whip up something about the integration of medicinal and recreational cannabis in three or four days. Say, around 2,500 words or so?
Free to you, but with the byline, "CD."

You'll excuse my momentary stutter? Your response to manthou has caught me off guard. I
really didn't think you'd pop back in for a look. After all, "we" are the "basement." Nobody comes down here. Nobody but us...

Drift — January 15, 2014 at 5:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal

BTW, I think that farewell song and tribute for Dave Kern was great, and for a very good guy.

kn_dalai — January 15, 2014 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift @ 5:11 pm

That's an excellent suggestion as there are about 20 states that have medical cards for marijuana even tho there are only 2 that has any recreational laws allowing it. The distinction and significance between the two types of use should not be compromised by political or moralistic agendas. Hope Lou returns reads your proposal.

jacjak — January 15, 2014 at 6:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Oh Louuuuuu.....

I'd like to know all about the Benton job description. Just how is it that he can just walk away from his "day job" and scurry off to Olympia to play "I make the rules" for months and not be penalized. Could anybody else get away with that? Does anybody else get away with that? It just ain't right, I tell ya.

Hawkman — January 15, 2014 at 7:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou nice to see you drop in. I think we get more comments than the upper side. Except for Yancey. Come back when you can stay longer. You might find us interesting?

timerick — January 15, 2014 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The hell with Erik Hidle -

When is the Florip kid going to get cut loose and be allowed to dig into stuff - do some real investigative type reporting? He came up with some good stuff back when he and Andrea were exposing the CRC and their lies about the bridge height, but has slid into mediocrity since then. Who is the big money being the Waterfront project, and who has the Port Commissioners unanimous in supporting Tesoro despite so much opposition against this facility.

When is Stevie Matthieu (sp?) going to give us some good dirt on State politics? She shows she can dig through BS and get to the meat of a topic, but her topics have been so blah. I'd like her to get into things like explaining a State Court judge's thought process in saying we cannot keep the Legislature from raising taxes - how and when is the government above the will of the people?

Aaron Corvin writes excellent articles, and shows an understanding of economics. We keep hearing about a need to make the area more business friendly, but never get much detail on why businesses prefer to set up shop in Portland instead of here.

The C has some good young reporters - I'm thinking the problem lies in their being too restricted in where they can go. I suspect it gets old after a while when your primary mission is to dig up dirt on Benton or Madore.

roger — January 15, 2014 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Roger I think you hit the nail on the head. Not our nail the C's nail.

timerick — January 15, 2014 at 8:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Notice to Nails,

I just discovered that I may be more aligned with the area "Lefties" than you are - check the linked WW article. I scrolled the fact sheet from 1000 Friends of Oregon and discovered their arguments are mostly the same ones I've been making against the CRC project. (Except for the salmon part - I'd just as soon let the sea lions eat them all. And is everyone aware that any bridge project will be restricted from building during the salmon runs? Crazy stuff.)

roger — January 16, 2014 at 5:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lou, I agree with the post by kn_dalai on January 15th @ 5:06 pm. You've all but drained your welcome mat to over half of the county's readers on political hit stories on Senator Benton and Commissioners Madore and Mielke as well as this "pay as you read" how 'bout something fresh; something which actually has evidence to back up the writers' statements rather than hearsay??? When are we going to see the REAL news about our mayor rather than the failing sell job we've been reading??? And what about the THIRD county commissioner??? You know, the one who sits with the little gavel at the meetings, controlling the crowd and silences the other two when it deems appropriate for his political preference??? Whatshizname, now??? Oh yeah...Stuart Little. Wait, that's a little rat in the movies. Oh well...when the shoe fits??? Time to bring your flock back before recognition of Clark County's news source is no longer there.

"All Waters ever does is complain on his blog (since he got the boot from the "C") ."
Hawkman — January 13, 2014 at 9:05 p.m.

Sits on a blog, complainin', eh...

So hawk, what have YOU been doing here on the C??? Seems to me, you've been booted a few times as well, bubba. And what have you done actively to make Clark County a better place??? I believe Mr. Waters has volunteered his time, multiple help other veterans. Is that what you consider doing nothing???

goldenoldie — January 16, 2014 at 6:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Lew Waters' website says Lynda Wilson is going to resign as Clark County Repub Party Chair so she can concentrate on running against Monica Stonier.

This lady is a perfect example of someone who is so committed to her political philosophy that there is no room for compromise. (Just as bad as the people who run Metro, and worse than Jim Moeller.)

Guess I'm going to have to dig and save a few references that show Monica is willing to vote against the party line when it means sticking to her word given to the voters when running for election. She had two main planks - formulating bills that would improve education (several submitted and passed), and vote against tax increases that she felt would harm the bottom line of the working people of her district (voted against the House Trans bill, among other things). Wilson also criticized Jaime HB for voting on the legislation that ended the sequestration's government shutdown.

roger — January 16, 2014 at 6:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

GO, try to keep up, will you?

They, the Commissioners, voted in your buddy, and dynamic speaker, Meilke as gavel holder for the year. Seems like you would have known that since you know it ALL.

As far as your other buddy Waters and his "volunteering" for the vets, so what? He's a vet as well so I would imagine he is just helping out his buddies. That has nothing to do with politics, now does it?

As for what I do, it's really none of your business. Other than me commenting on here and voting, that's more info than you need about me.

Hawkman — January 16, 2014 at 6:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkeye: With all the job duty shuffling going on at the DES in Clark County to accommodate Benton's legislative duties, do we even NEED Benton's "services" here?

Madore and Mielke are always looking to save the county a buck or two when it comes to employee costs. They did not replace Public Health Director John Wiesman, for example and they simply shuffled staff to replace Bill Barron. No new hires in those instances.

goldie: Why don't you pony up the money for a digital subscription to the Columbian like many of us have? I see it as a user fee: pay for the pleasure of reading and commenting and staying informed. Not trying to be negative and provoking, but it is curious to me why huge Columbian critics think this newspaper is good for publishing your Forum opinions/discussions, but nothing else. You check this site often enough and chime in, so why not pay for the "entertainment" value, at the very least. I don't get it. It just seems strange to complain so much about the Columbian's coverage and still show up here. I'd love to understand how you (or others, if they want to chime in) rationalize it.

I think citizen financial support of local independent newspapers is as important as voting.
It is part of a critical responsibility that nurtures Free Speech and government accountability.

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 7:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger @ 5:19 am: I noticed that interesting alliance, too, especially when Madore offered to "loan" these groups Clark County's attorneys.

I mentioned back then that this may be a new paradigm shift for the far right: loving up "tree hugger" environmentalists. :) I noticed how conservative commenters poked fun of the environmental demonstration under the bridge not long ago. Now they are BFFs.

I enjoy it when unexpected political alliances happen because it can be an eye-opener. Who you always thought was the "enemy" has more in common with you than you thought. The help I received from a tea party Republican this summer was another example of this in action: both of us came out of that experience with a shared purpose and mutual respect and both of us agreed: whodathunkedit?

As this Forum demonstrates to me: we are all more alike than we are different.

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 7:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk...I should've bet on what you were going to say. You are far too predictable. It's obvious you haven't done anything to improve livability in our county. You're more of the sit and complain bunch. Soooo typical.

Mielke is my buddy??? That's news to me. Did you forget...I have stated time and time again...I trust NO politician, bubba....NO politician.

Manthou, I do not speak for others. I speak for myself. I refuse to pay more than what I do for internet services and the cost of maintenance and upkeep of my computer system. I am highly critical of the Columbian because I expect more than what they produce. As of yet, they have not met my expectations. Till the time comes that they take the leap and tell the whole story rather than just what they want the people to see, they won't get a penny out of me and I certainly won't pay to ruffle a few feathers on the forum with tidbits of news and information which as of late...usually ends up as an article within a few hours or days on the C. And if you've noticed...prior to the new pay plan the C has provided, my writes were already fewer than they were in the past. Think about why that is, manthou...THEN get back to me.

And Manthou(in reference to your 7:42 am comment regarding environmentalists and sharing a bit of news involving the CRC)...according to Willamette Week, 1000 Friends of Oregon and the Oregon League of Conservation Voters have come out of the dark and are now speaking up against Governor Kitzhaber's pet project, the Columbia River Crossing.

Have a wonderful rest of the week/month/year...etcetera, etcetera.

goldenoldie — January 16, 2014 at 7:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 14, 2014 at 7:46 p.m.

I agree we'll see continued obstruction from Madore & Meilke, but what I stated earlier about back room deals, I meant it. Political Evangelicals defer to, 'the ends justify the means' when faced with a chance to evangelize v job integrity.

While we know M&M; have integrity issues, we also know personal resolve and ego drive them. Appeal to this and give them something, via private entity or hide it in the books. (loosen revenue allocation?) Give the M&M; bros a bible college or something, in exchange for just getting out of the way. Appeal to what they believe is their strongest point; sacrificing all to further the gospel. Not sure of both, but at least Madore is smart enough to understand this type of obstruction will only last so long, and would make a deal.

Give em' a bite out the apple.

There's a lot of money to be made selling pot, butt tons, both privately and from tax revenue. Buy these religious obstructionists off for a song. Something shiny, so they can, 'do the right thing'.

This is politics. These two have an agenda. We can harness that spirited corruption if we approach it in the right way.

All for the 'higher' good.

nailingit — January 16, 2014 at 8:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit: I cannot wait to hear the spin from the State of the County address. Is Madore giving it?

A propos to my opinion earlier this morning, Rachel Maddow wrote a great opinion piece for the WaPo: we need dogged journalism in a democracy. :)

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal

nail: I just noticed your new avatar.

Is that Ming the Merciless? Holy Flash Gordon!

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 16, 2014 at 5:19 a.m.

I'd be curious to know the percentage of pro CRC Washingtonians who are now against the project if Oregon has total control.


manthou — January 16, 2014 at 9:33 a.m.

Yes. Mingo from Mongo! Although I think he prefers Emperor Ming as he tramples on his subjects.

Emperor David?

nailingit — January 16, 2014 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hi everyone, Just making a drive by appearance to see whatca all are saying and doing. Can't believe the month's half over.... It's been an interesting week for National news. Have been watching several national news outlets and there take on the top stories. Very interesting to say the least.
I hope everyone has a better year this year than l13...

vanwadreamer — January 16, 2014 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"You've all but drained your welcome mat to over half of the county's readers on political hit stories on Senator Benton and Commissioners Madore and Mielke as well as this "pay as you read" baloney..." goldenoldie — January 16, 2014 at 6:11 a.m.

I am curious as to how the 'over half of the county's readers' has been calculated. And, by who. It's impressive to have the skill that can determine the number of readers who reads political 'hit stories on Benton and Commissioners' without including readers who reads, say news about traffic and sports, too.

And, while there is still a few kinks in the paywall (I am still getting the 'you have only xx amount of free articles...' flag even tho I've paid for a year in order to take advantage of the 50% savings) it's not a bad deal overall, even if I don't happen to like all the opinion pieces because they may or may not endorse my viewpoints. I find it far more convenient keeping informed with what is happening around Vancouver than surfing around the web looking for freebie news about my home town.

jacjak — January 16, 2014 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Just was looking through some recent Columbian articles and I don't find any word of Jeff Hamm of C-Tran just receiving a 20 thousand a year pay hike. Did I miss it or it just was not there?

timerick — January 16, 2014 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Here is a good story, a little too long to post here but I enjoyed it. Drift, I think it will interest you as well, although I'm sure you already know this stuff;

Goldie, same ol, same ol, from you. You ask a question and don't get the answer you want so you skim right over it. Nothing new there.

As for what I've done for the County, I continue to live here and support the County by paying my taxes and not shopping in Oregon. I have also supported my local newspaper by paying my online subscription, have you? That should be good enough.

BTW, what have YOU done?

Hawkman — January 16, 2014 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Yeah, I saw that (or a similar story) a while back, Hawk.

Drift — January 16, 2014 at 3:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Bad news, people. Very bad news. The professor died. He was 89. I’m happy for him, that he finally got rescued from that island, but in the mean time, he and all of the others showed the world what it took to be a survivor. Every week a new death defying challenge to over come. This was REAL reality TV. They didn’t even know there were TV cameras planted all over the place! (I think it was an unholy public/private alliance between NSA and CBS.) They provided the template for all the copy cat’s that came later.

This is bad, but at least we still have the movie star and Mary Ann with us.

Willy? I’ve got to admit, I’d never even given this a second thought. And other factoids of great interest to humans around the world:

R.I.P. Russell Johnson. In memoriam:

kn_dalai — January 16, 2014 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It wasn't in the Columbian article on the C-Tran Board meeting. So I posted a comment asking where that was. But I suppose I'm a day late, and they're more interested in arguing about why Liar Leavitt is apparently going to be considered verboten, but The M&M; Boys is OK. (The guy arguing with Hill answered his own question - The rules don't apply to Columbian staff - especially Editor Lou.

I did find where David Madore mentions it (on his facebook page) " The Board majority also voted to raise CEO Jeff Hamm’s salary from $126,308 to $131,000 plus $14800. " I wonder of the $14,800 is a signing bonus? (Yes, that's intended as sarcasm.)

roger — January 16, 2014 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Just when I thought it couldn't get any stranger, Tom Mielke proves that Temple Lentz's the Daily 'Couve is fact-based through and through.

Stephanie Rice reports, in APIL Blog, that Mielke has banned The Columbian from the Commissioners office waiting room.

Not far off, is Temple's take on this situation:

Greg Owens, over at the C3G2 FB page makes this fun suggestion: Let's all make sure we drop off a Columbian copy every time we visit the CC Service Center.

Book burning next, Tom?

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 5:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger and timerick: I get it that you and many others think the C is biased and unfair in its reporting.

Do you think actually banning a local newspaper is a good policy for county government to endorse and uphold?

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - Not at all - Mielke's decision is loony tunes.

I accept that The Columbian's reporting is biased; that's why I read other sources, especially when I hear or think I'm not getting the full story. But a deliberate omission (or perhaps deletion?) of Jeff Hamm's pay raise, while at the same time writing an editorial suggesting teachers shouldn't get a pay raise, is the height of hypocrisy. We're seeing more and more like this, and it ought to be addressed.

In fact - now that I think of this, I have to revisit an editorial and add a comment there.

roger — January 16, 2014 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Greg Owens was booted from facebook at the same time someone with a squirrel avatar was, and for the same reason. He returned recently, and while much more subdued his comments remain little more than those of an internet troll. Is it possible he actually says something useful over on that website? (At least our squirrel has the dignity to refuse to grovel.)

roger — January 16, 2014 at 6:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: I only noticed him tonight and that was because of his "take-a-Columbian-to-CC-worksite" suggestion, which I thought deliciously oppositional. Sounds like, from your observations, he comes by that naturally. :)

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 16, 2014 at 5:47 p.m.

Hey, maybe they are just trying to save money and cancelled their subscriptions. You know, because it costs way too much and the County can't afford it any longer.

And then again it could be that Meilke's scrapbook is full and he doesn't want to be forced into having to purchase another book.

Maybe goldenoldie can get Waters to ask him.

Hawkman — January 16, 2014 at 7:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou - I can't argue with "deliciously oppositional" - in fact, I'm kind of jealous I don't get called stuff like that. Peace.

roger — January 16, 2014 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou I think that the article by Temple Lentz is a fabricated one. They the M&M;'s are not going to ban the C from the court house. But I stand with Roger that it is very strange for back of a better word that the C did not report the raise for Jeff Hamm. It looks like they choose who to rake over the coals. It is very apparent to quite a few of us. This does by no means condone what the M&M; boys have done. The C and their cohorts have been almost as bad. Lets report all the news good or bad.

timerick — January 16, 2014 at 8:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai — January 16, 2014 at 4:04 p.m.

Bad day for you and others mourning crappy comedy deaths. These things often happen in three's. Who's next, Larry Storch?

-Dave Madden Dead: 'The Partridge Family' Actor Dies At 82-

nailingit — January 16, 2014 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A rather interesting opinion piece from the Oregonian. I'm not certain Monaghan is truly a right winger, even though he does cite organizations such as Cascade Policy Institute. (I'm thinking he does this more to twit the crowd that marches lockstep to the Metro beat.) To me, his argument that communities in the area which are poorly served by TriMet ought to consider breaking away and establish their own public transportation infrastructure is pretty sound. I'd say if we let TriMet over here, within 10 years we'll be doing everything possible to get them back to their own side of the river.

roger — January 16, 2014 at 8:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal


In light of glorious leader's speech about having a 'pen and a phone', i am repeating a question to you that i asked about 7 years ago:

if the president openly defied the constitution, would the military support him as commander-in-chief, or would they uphold their oath to defend the constitution? if the latter, what would be possible actions? moving to congress for orders....? supreme court involvement telling them what to do....?
military takeover....?

DeeLittle — January 17, 2014 at 1:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There is no real answer to that question.

We who were enlisted have a legitimate cop out (or whatever you want to call it) - in addition to "defending" The Constitution, our oath also requires obedience to the orders of those appointed over us. While one could argue for days over what "defending" The Constitution means, ethical and moral prioritization, and a few other things, there's been a long standing judicial support for that requirement to (at some point) shut our mouths and do what we're told. (You can't fight a battle if everyone is going to be allowed to discuss the merits of each decision made.)

Officers take an oath similar to that one our legislators take, so their inherent responsibility to The Constitution is on a higher order. But then you get back to having to ask just what "defending" The Constitution means. There are some conflicts and some extremely open-ended statements in that document - Who determines priorities and correct interpretations? Does the military even have a right to exist under The Constitution, which only specifically requires a Navy, and makes a couple of statements that indicate a State militia is OK? And officers are still required to obey the orders of The President - Our Commander In Chief.

Again, in both oaths, the requirement to obey the orders of the officers appointed over, The President, and the Governor (for the Guards), delegates that decision process upward. So in effect, there's a Catch-22 - either way one will violate their oath.

There is an honorable out - Robert E. Lee's example.


roger — January 17, 2014 at 5:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

You have two flawed premises to your question - in my mind.

One - I believe the amendment process clearly shows The Constitution was intended to be changed over time as needed. For a Jewish comparison, even Moses threw down and broke the first set of Commandments and went back for a second try. There's a strange sort of message there - One that is reinforced by the over sized lettering of We The People in the Preamble - The Constitution may be the highest order of written law of the land, but is not a fixed, iron clad set of rules; it remains subordinate to We The People.

Two - Sorry, but instituting a health care system - one that I will agree is extremely flawed on many levels - is not a treasonous action on the part of The President. (Or whatever he just did that you're referring to.) (Nor are the attempts of the Congressional opposition to kill it.) One could make a very strong argument that Pres Bush II, acting through Cheney, Ashcraft and Rumsfeld, violated the law of the land much more than Pres Obama has. There is more than enough to justify both sides of that argument, which is why, at the end of the day, "the military" as a body (vs. individually) tends to stay away from the discussion of the question you're posing. (Other than as a never truly resolved question posed in classes on ethical decision making.)

Abraham Lincoln is probably the only President who (in the minds of many) egregiously violated The Constitution, and history shows how the military reacted to that. Do we really want to go that route again?

roger — January 17, 2014 at 5:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: You are on a roll here. Insightful and experienced answers to Dee's question. I need to chew on them this morning while I wake up.

I read Monaghan's OpEd piece you posted. I suggested something similar a long while ago here and to our illustrious local authorities: either Vancouver breaks off from C-Tran and forms their own transportation benefit district or the rural areas of Clark County do.

Neither Tri-Met or C-Tran can adequately service such diverse areas. Transportation needs in Yacolt, for instance, are not what they are in Vancouver. Vancouver is in a stronger position to break off and support their own transportation company.

Some on the C-Tran Board are in favor of researching the benefits of forming a separate transportation benefit district, too. We'll see if it gets to square one or even enters the discussion this year.

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal

A silver lining?
The WSLCB's recommendations to the Legislature and Cody's HB 2149 use the recreational market as the corner stone holding up those onerous proposals. The premise of both is with recreational outets readily available the need for med-weeders to have the ability to be self-sufficient is moot.

Ferguson has rattled that foundation.

There is a bill (HB 2322) compelling municipalities to allow the cultivation, processing and retail sales of cannabis as outlined by the WSLCB, but I doubt it'll get much traction.

Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing to be a Washingtonian these days. I can't help but imagine the giggling and finger pointing from the rest of the world.

Drift — January 17, 2014 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift @ 8:24 am: "Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing to be a Washingtonian these days. I can't help but imagine the giggling and finger pointing from the rest of the world."

On so many levels, I could not agree with you more (education funding; transportation priorities; archaic civil commitment law; and its wobbly, weak legal support for 502). Where does it get my praise? Its support of marriage equality and mental health treatment parity, at least in principle.

It is also the ONLY state with a functioning News Council, a non-profit ombudsman-type watchdog that keeps journalists honest. Its existence is threatened now with the pending retirement of its Executive Director. (For those folks who believe the Columbian is biased, this should be your favorite charity). If Don Benton believes he has been targeted unfairly, he can always file a complaint with the Washington News Council, but he'd better hurry.

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift it is almost embarrassing to be a American let alone a Washingtonian. When we look at all the corrupt and back door deals going on in both the nation and the state it makes one wonder. I don't know if I just wasn't paying attention years ago or this stuff is just worse now. It might be that when the economy was doing great and things were smooth sailing I just didn't care. Now things are tight and I am watching how our tax dollars are being spent. Youth may have had something to do with it also. I used to think that the Columbian was here to bring to print all the good and bad that is going on around us. But now it looks like they pick and choose what we are to read about our local elected officials. Will we ever see in print here what is happening with all of them or we just going to hear more about the M&M; boys. We know they are going to keep screwing things up but I don't believe they are the only ones.

timerick — January 17, 2014 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal

timerick @ 2:13 -- "I don't know if I just wasn't paying attention years ago or this stuff is just worse now. It might be that when the economy was doing great and things were smooth sailing I just didn't care."

My take is there are multiple reasons and causes. Here are a couple guesses... First... the internet, and the incredibly VAST availability of information to Americans. We can click a computer, phone, tablet, tab, kindle, etc. then read forever. We know where everything is; we have google earth, sky, street view, and ocean bottom, even in 3D. Even our cameras has GPS. They ring, beep, display, flash, and vibrate, making sure we are always 'connected'. Absolutly anyone can write and publish. No agent, editor, publisher, or marketing. The 'printed word' is available in such a glut of opinion, armchair expert analysis, and 'truth' ad nauseam, it's downright mind-boggling.

Second - there's nothing like economic threat to cause a hightened awareness of the world we live in. Approx. 9 M manufacturing jobs have been 'outsourced' in the last 30 yrs, w/ another 3 M in other industries like customer service, That's a lot of jobs that just dissolved w/ not much added to replace employment. There have always been those paying attention, but let food, gas, land, education, inflate, coupled with the job market, and the self-involved wake up to one degree or another.

Third - Economic and political duress cause an additional sort of phenomena. Principles, both moral and social, and always in a state of flux, are hightened and being parsed and debated into the most miniscule judgements and opinions as never before, and convenient channels of dissemination carry the message. Churches and other groups are popping up everywhere as more and more people find a dissatisfaction of the traditional churches and traditional answers.

There are probably as many factors as there are questions, but pick any time or age. Pick any continent or people. There is not much new under the sun when it comes to the human capacity for duplicity, fraud, scullduggery, deceit. Only a number of the contemporary elements of knowing about them have been amplified.

jacjak — January 17, 2014 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

David Madore, on his newest FB post, vows to bring a new media choice to Clark County in 2014. This, after he spends many paragraphs railing against The Columbian.

"2014 should mark the year when a new Clark County Media rises to fill the void. The vacuum will be filed with a credible relevant objective reliable professional news and information source that truly serves the citizens of our community. Stay tuned."

I just don't share many of your negative opinions about the journalism produced by The Columbian reporters. I think it is fair and accurate and responsible. If it focuses a lot on Madore, Mielke, and Benton, it is because they often say or do things that are newsworthy and deserve scrutiny. If it doesn't give the same focus to other politicians, it might be because the other politicians are conducting themselves better. Don't think for a moment if Leavitt started sounding off the way M and M do, or unilaterally hired Jim Moeller to run a city department, that you would not hear about it from the C.

Like I said in an earlier post, our state has an ombudsman organization, the only one in the nation, and other public figures have availed themselves of this forum: Secretary of State Sam Reed and King Co Sheriff Sue Rahr, for starters. Both prevailed in their complaints against the Seattle PI. Madore and Benton and Mielke can do the same, if they believe have been wronged by one or more newspaper articles. The reason they haven't is that they don't have a case and know it.

What does Madore's "news" reporting produce? His own version of reality. Something akin to fairy dust and glitter when he likes you or an exaggerated version of the seventh circle of Hell when he doesn't.

I cannot wait to see what "newspaper" he has up his sleeve.

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 4:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.

Question, isn't removing the local papers from a public place kind of like censoring? I like how all of a sudden it's Meilke's idea. I can just picture a little Madore sitting on his shoulder, telling him what to do next.

My guess is that he will either start his own paper or he will get Robert Pamplin Jr. to start one of his papers to start reporting on things Clark County. RB owns the Portland Tribune, KPAM radio and a bunch of other stuff. He is everything Madore wants to be. The guy also owns Ross Island Sand and gravel and is a Minister in his own church in Lake Oswego. I can see Madore drooling right now.

Of course, this is just my guess.,_Jr.

(captcha is "Sickening")

Hawkman — January 17, 2014 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk: Oh, I never considered the Pamplin angle. I do know a little about the guy from a Lewis and Clark connection in the past.

What you pose makes sense. However, I think Madore would have trouble sharing control over editorial content. :) Two big egos.

What is scary about all this: when Madore does not get his way, he will destroy what he can to make sure he prevails. If this means manufacturing "good" news or "bad", he'll spin it to suit his needs and his followers will lap it up and suck up. He thrives on it: "How am I doing, bosses?" And they all chime in with the praise.

We will have our own FOX News soon. What fun!

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Drift — January 17, 2014 at 8:24 a.m.-manthou — January 17, 2014 at 10:08 a.m.-timerick — January 17, 2014 at 2:13 p.m.-jacjak — January 17, 2014 at 4:07 p.m.

Sometimes it's embarrassing to be a Chargers fan. I've found that if I look through the downs, while embracing the ups, it helps.

That, and solid draft pics.

A multi-purpose formula.


Christie was a #1 GOP draft pick for Prez in '16. The one republican who outweighed Hillary in the polls. The Great Right Hope. Now he's pretty much done. God knows how many more bodies will wash up on the Jersey shore.

I'm sure republicans can look through the downs of this as I have. As a matter of fact, I thank God for it.

Embrace the positives! Maybe Cruz will get the nomination. No doubt Santorum, Gingrich and Perry will throw their hat in also.

Bright days ahead...

Thank You God


-Flurry of subpoenas in New Jersey bridge flap-

nailingit — January 17, 2014 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.

'The Daily Madore'. Will it be in comic book form? This guy wears so many hats it's amazing. He must have quite a posse to help him out.

'Get Back Jo Jo'!

Though he wouldn't recognize it, maybe it's a response to make up for his failed leadership, underhandedness, and lack of transparency.

nailingit — January 17, 2014 at 5:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal


was referring to o's statement to bypass congress and rule through exec order. technically, he's already violated the powers clause by unilaterally changing the HCbill as passed by congress.

we've never had this situation in our history. the civil war was was about a legally passed law, at least.

this is uncharted country in a very dark, dangerous place. the house holds the purse strings, so there is *some* physical control of the gvt that congress holds. but the reality of a President taking the legal powers of congress AND the individual states is....alarming.

DeeLittle — January 17, 2014 at 5:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Nailingit: You know, multiple newspapers in a city is a good thing: they keep each other honest. I think the Seattle Times started making bonehead decisions when it moved the PI out of its way. They are self-correcting in a good way, but it took some heavy hits to get them back on track. New editors and a "quality control" public editor has helped.

That said, any newspaper Madore publishes will not likely follow SPJ Ethical guidelines and will be a free-for-all propaganda rag. It will not threaten the health of the Columbian and might even buoy it up.

Who will Madore hire as Editor? What journalists will sign on? They are not that hungry.

This is gonna be fun.

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 17, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.

The Columbian used to have an editorial writer named Michael Zuzel. Pretty young back then. He was unquestionably on the Left. When Rush Limbaugh came on the local radio market, Zuzel wrote that Limbaugh would be a “flash in the pan”. That was over 20 years ago and Zuzel was wrong.

You may recall the days of talk radio, when there was a lot of local programming. It could be political, but not like it is now. But there were also nationally syndicated programs like Larry King. I used to like King’s program as he had a lot of good interviews. He is also decidedly on the Left. He started getting calls mentioning Rush Limbaugh, who had only recently gone national. King lamented the advent of Limbaugh, and how he didn’t like the changes he saw taking place in talk radio. He was gone from radio shortly after that, but became a fixture on CNN with his TV interview show.

When FOX news came on cable, CNN was the 900 pound gorilla. It took FOX about two years, as I recall, to oust CNN from that number one spot.

Getting back to radio; Right wing radio programs proliferated, and the Left could not compete in the radio market place. Al Franken, the stand up comic and now senator, started his own program on the Air America network, but he never got much of a following. Leftist talk shows never have. There was a time when some Democrats in Congress were calling for government to force radio stations to give equal time to Leftist programming. A really bad idea on all sorts of levels.

Here’s what I think, manthou. Michael Zuzel was wrong, and extremely so, because he couldn’t see past his own thinking. Right wing talk radio flourished because there was a high level of discontent by those on the Right, with news being filtered through the news providers who were seen to be Democrat partisans. And the same with FOX’s meteoric rise to the top.

kn_dalai — January 17, 2014 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal

The problem that I’ve got with the Columbian, IS NOT that they take positions, or endorse candidates, that I sometimes don’t agree with. It is that they have made a cottage industry out of knocking Madore, Mielke and Benton, and it smacks of political activism. I’d like to think that it’s not because of the Columbian’s support of the CRC/with lite rail, but it really raises questions. Just what was the point of the big write-up on Benton? If they want to do that then fine. But there was nothing illegal. No smoking gun. They cast him in a bad light, but to what end? When I see Madore questioning Lamm and Wolfendale; I don’t see someone who is arrogant. I see a public official who’s asking the questions that need to be asked, and not taking evasiveness as an answer. So where’s the Columbian in all of this? When Hidle and Rice do their “blogs” I don’t care if it’s about opinion. Their bias comes through loud and clear, and afaic, it destroys any semblance of fairness they may portend, in whatever articles they write. To move onto a non-local issue for a moment; I mentioned a couple of months ago, that it was questionable whether it was Greg Jayne or Aaron Corvin that had really replaced Laird. Corvin’s (“the port and economy ” reporter) two articles that found their way to the Columbian’s front page carousel, had little to do with anything except his own criticisms of Republicans, which were clearly based on his personal opinion.

I’ve no idea what this big plan is for a new local newspaper, but if that’s what it is; don’t be surprised if it quickly gains ground over the Columbian. Doesn’t seem likely that there’s enough readers here for two local daily newspapers.

kn_dalai — January 17, 2014 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal

A discussion on "ruling by executive order" that was in US Today. It's not like this is the first time a President has ever done this. And the three he just announced aren't earthshaking (student loans, mortgage assistance and veteran jobs) and will still probably require Congressional action to fund them.

No, this isn't all that alarming. Ronald Reagan's attack on regulation of business was alarming, and was a major reason we're in the shape we're in today. A Vice President and Secretary of Defense (with the tacit approval of The President) cooking up a bogus reason to invade another country was alarming. (Though not exactly the first time done. And JFK didn't even dummy up a reason, he just tried to do it.) A Supreme Court decision that mandatory medical insurance is justifiable as a tax is alarming. Lots of things our Presidents have done, just in our lifetime, have been alarming.

However - there's so much precedence for "executive decision" that this latest "threat" to use this privilege barely gets past the yawner stage.

roger — January 17, 2014 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal

kn_dalai: Good points in your posts at 7:19 PM and 7:16 PM. Right-wing talk radio and FOX News are popular, they have flourished, and they have influenced the course of our politics big time.

Rush Limbaugh's popularity, however, is not correlated to his being a responsible journalist. He is an entertainer. The left has their share, too, which is why we are watching Al Jazeera more in our house. And The Christian Science Monitor is still my favorite go-to newspaper when I want fair and balanced and the facts so I can make up my own mind. It tends to cover stories that are not highlighted in the main stream media giants.

I have no issue with David Madore posing challenging questions to Jeff Hamm or Tom Wolfendale. That should be done by all Board members because they must represent the public interest.

It is free enterprise in action for Madore to create his own newspaper. If he does, it will be wildly popular among a certain segment of Clark County citizen no matter what its content. The man has a magic flute and a loyal following and the money to make his dreams come true.

Advocacy journalism is controversial but gaining in popularity. It makes me uneasy, as it does you. We disagree as to whether or not The Columbian is engaging in it with its dogged stories about M and M and Benton.

I praise Madore for his vocal and public support of free speech and his promotion of government transparency. But he does not uphold those concepts consistently across situations and that makes him a hypocrite and a greasy politician in my eyes. The left has their share, too.

Will he produce a newspaper that reports the news the way he reports it on his FB page or will he publish information that is fair and accurate? We will have to see.

hope he surprises the hell out of my underwhelmed expectations, as you suggest. :)

manthou — January 18, 2014 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Kudos to Marissa Harshman and Paris Achen for helping to raise public awareness of the human sex trafficking issue here in Clark County. It is modern-day slavery and a critical human rights issue that deserves front-and-center legislative attention. Let's see what Clark County and Vancouver can do, for starters.

manthou — January 18, 2014 at 8:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal

To continue the discussion on the use of Executive Orders, those covering assassinations are ones I consider worth knowing about. (While I don't oppose the use of drones by our conventional military forces to target known enemies, the unregulated use of these weapons by the "dark side" (CIA, JSOC) is a major contributor to the expansion of militant Moslem fundamentalism and the various terrorist groups they sponsor.)

Gerald Ford issued Executive Order 11905, which said in part - "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination." This was in response to the Church committee's look into CIA operations and reported assassinations conducted or coordinated by them.

Jimmy Carter issued Executive Order 12036, which expanded on 11905 and said "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." It also included restrictions on the conduct of intelligence operations against US citizens, which have been a major point of argument in the al Awlaki killing.

Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12333, which reinforced the earlier Orders by saying "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

Bill Clinton didn't issue an Executive Order in this area, but he did direct cruise missile strikes against suspected al Qaeda supporters in Afghanistan and the Sudan in 1998, in response to the earlier embassy bombings, There are also indicators that some targeting for assassination may have occurred in Kosovo, most specifically with Arkan, leader of a Serbian group. (Some sources say that mistaken airstrike on the Chinese embassy wasn't really a mistake, as Arkan was using their radio room to communicate with his forces. And French intelligence sources pointed the finger our way when Arkan's assassination was being looked into.)


roger — January 18, 2014 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal

GW Bush signed two Executive Orders directing a sweeping reform of the intelligence community, Executive Order 13355 and Executive Order 13470. These were largely in response to the poor communication between different agencies; there was plenty of information that if properly processed could have provided advance warning of the USS Cole bombing and the 9/11 attack. However, the earlier prohibitions against targeting for assassination were removed, and replaced by language stating the need to take whatever steps necessary to protect the Nation against terrorist attacks. This justification was used by Cheney and Rumsfeld to consolidate much of the classified warfighting capability under Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) and Gen Stanley McChrystal. There are countless complaints of "excesses" from the unrestrained use of these forces, many coming from our own mainstream military forces - The interrogation camps at Camp Nama and abu Ghraib, and various activities in Somalia, are a couple that have had their classified status breached and operations exposed. Much of what has happened under the purview of the "Patriot Act" also fed into that largely unregulated intelligence world (unless you consider that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcraft were acting within the law, that is).

Barack Obama has accelerated the use of JSOC capabilities, but has made an effort to pull the authority for assassination back to The President. And while he hasn't issued his own Executive Order for this area, Eric Holder has issued a legal opinion that The President can direct the assassination of American citizens in certain circumstances (al Awlaki).

Again - whether targeting individual terrorist leaders for killing fits the definition of assassination and prohibitions against its use are the subject of conversations that have been going on for several years now. But how we've pursued this has drawn increasing criticism around the world. And our current and former President have both made it clear they will continue to pursue this policy. All under the umbrella of a vaguely defined power of the Executive Branch of our government.

roger — January 18, 2014 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: Thanks for the historical summary of the use of Executive Order. You do the research well so we don't have to. :)

I promise I will log off soon as a Forum hog this morning (going to a lovely wedding), but I'd like opinions of a topic that has not received a lot of attention in the news: Don Benton is no longer on the Transportation Committee. Who from Clark County has replaced him? Annette Cleveland.

Any thoughts on what motivated this change? Any theories? Share them, please.

manthou — January 18, 2014 at 8:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, apparently Ron Tonkin passed yesterday. I guess nobody told the Columbian.

RIP Ron, you were one of the good guys.

Hawkman — January 18, 2014 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal

-Press Talk: Our biggest problem is …-

"Here’s the deal. Liberals want to spend too much and conservatives want to spend too little."

Here's the deal. The Columbian pushes a false narrative that says conservatives want to spend less, and liberals more. It's factually and historically wrong, and pushes a conservative talking point that is disingenuous to say the least. Conservatives just allocate our money differently, all the while spending more of it.

My choice as a voter is, in part, deciding who best represents what I want government to do with my tax dollar. That's a fair and honest thing to say. But to base your editorial opinion on a falsehood to push a political agenda is something else.

Take a look at these charts. (from a well respected conservative publication)

Local papers mean a lot at election time. I'm glad more didn't listen to this 'liberal rags' endorsement for Mitt Romney last election.

Maybe I should cancel my subscription over it. Trash the Columbian on other websites. Whine to high hell they don't cover the news the way I want them to.

Or just deal with it and bring reasonable light to the error, knowing that my local publication is indeed biased on many issues. They seem to sway right on fiscal matters while leaning left on social issues. But not always. Nothing is perfect.

In the words of Jagger, "You Can't Always Get What You Want".

nailingit — January 18, 2014 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Yes Nail you can't always get what you want. But I did think it was one Lou's better writes. Not so much for his view on liberal vs conservatives but the focus he put on paying for things as we go. I don't try to believe that the Columbian is going to report all the local news. They have their own agenda and they stick by it. But it is easy to find the information you want with just a little looking and listening. That's why I thank you and Roger. You guys always put out well researched and thoughtful opinions. And Manthou keeps us posted on the things going on with this city and county. It does help if one keeps a open mind. Things change when facts come out.

timerick — January 18, 2014 at 10:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Where do they get these stupid statistics?

Part of the "let's appease Boeing" discussion coming from Gov Inslee's office has to do with water standards. Presumably, because they're talking about eating fish, this has to do with types and levels of various chemicals they can allow to use and allow to work their way into the water supply. Anyhow, the claim was made that the average person consumes one 8 oz fish fillet per month.

I finally got motivated to check, and an 8 oz fillet is considered one medium sized fillet.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't much care for fish. It pretty much has to be breaded and deep fried (i.e., fish 'n' chips) or a tuna sandwich, for me to eat it. And I am completely, 100% positive that I manage to choke down more than 8 oz of the stuff per month. In fact, I'll claim 8 oz per week is much closer to my intake. And there's also that Omega 3 fish oil capsule I take.

The AMA recommends eating fish at least twice per week. I sort of suspect most people are fairly close to this.

So why are we getting that bogus stat handed to us? Is Olympia so eager to suck up to Boeing that they'll sacrifice the fresh fish the state is (sort of) famous for?

roger — January 18, 2014 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal

So, checking a little on the pay raise of Jeff Hamm and why there is some question regarding it. Got distracted almost instantly w/ all the google links to Madore, and ended up reading about Madore's day with John Ley, and the meeting between the Ft. Vancouver Cable Channel, Madore, and county lawyer Chris Horne. Here's a quote that sort of leaped out. "Brainstormed with them to make dramatic changes to create a new 2.0 version of their organization." While I know little about the broadcasting in Vancouver or WSUV, I am a little surprised by the scrutiny, and also a couple of the comments. And while I know Briggs is intent of running for a city or county position, is Ley too? Also, who is Steve Bates? Looks like someone from Clackamas that's running for commissioner there. But looks like he's doing some of the writing for Madore's page, that's if 'with Stephen Bates' means it the way I'm taking it.

jacjak — January 18, 2014 at 12:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"My choice as a voter is, in part, deciding who best represents what I want government to do with my tax dollar." --- Nails

That's the argument in this County - Do we elect people and expect them to make good decisions for us, or do we elect them to vote how the majority wants them to?

Editor Lou actually started to address a relevant topic, but walked away before he really got to a real conclusion. As he noted, the majority of us will probably not use the bus service. Why? And who does use it regularly? Yancey (of all people) actually tried to push the conversation that way, and got slapped down by Lou. (I suppose I'll choke down the bile and go support Yancey when done here.) Anyhow, the primary users are those who cannot afford their own car - the people at the lower end of the economic scale.

I would think that for that population, that whole conversation has to be a determination of meeting the need in the most reasonable manner (as Lou finally got to). And there are two factors to balance - providing a level of service that benefits the most who are dependent on it, and minimizing the cost for those who pay. (System attributes such as speed and comfort are enhancements.) The logical answer is the bus system. Our C-Tran Board is charging into the same problem TriMet faces - That agency has committed so much to light rail, they're having to curtail (and on some routes cancel) the bus service the poor are dependent on. They've allowed social engineering to replace the real reason we have public transportation.

roger — January 18, 2014 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak — January 18, 2014 at 12:17 p.m. --

"And while I know Briggs is intent of running for a city or county position...." Mike lives in Camas or Washougal (I forget which), is in the Second District (County), and is in the 18th Legislative District. Based on the historic voting patterns, he'll need to move to get elected. Someone on here noted a while back (when Mike started getting noticed on the facebook side) that he had worked his way onto a committee of some sort where he lives, and then quit when things didn't go his way. He's a nice enough guy - we've chatted briefly at a couple of community gatherings - so I refrain from getting too harsh with noting he has never supported a single opinion of his with anything substantive. If I had to say, though, I'd pigeonhole him as someone who likes to promote ideas, but leave the hard work for someone else. Not useful at our level.

" Ley too?" I sure hope not. I'm pretty sure he also lives out in the Camas/Washougal area. He's got that hardcore conservative thing going that mirrors the Wilsons, Vicks,, who currently control the Clark County Repub party. (Seems we have 3 or 4 airline pilot types in the area with that set of beliefs - strange.) I'd say his electability could be a bit higher.

roger — January 18, 2014 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Well, Editor Lou's Press Talk today has one interesting outcome - Jim Moeller and Lew Waters are in agreement that he's full of crap. Maybe Lou is correct when he says he's in the middle and gets slammed by both ends of the spectrum?

I'll leave it to Goldie to point this out to Lew, seeing as how he claims to no longer read the "Lazy C" due to the pay wall. (I guess how he knows the details of Lou's article will have to be one of those unexplained mysteries.)

roger — January 18, 2014 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal

jacjak - Did you ever find anything out about that Hamm raise? I'm not going to lose sleep over a $4700 raise, but what was the $14,800 for? (And as before, I'm much more interested in why The Columbian continues to ignore this raise and apparent bonus, when they raise hell every time any other public employee gets an extra nickel or two?)

roger — January 18, 2014 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal

C-Tran Executive Director Jeff Hamm will make nearly $4,300 more in the coming year, after the agency's board approved a pay raise Tuesday night.

Following an executive session, the board unanimously voted to give Hamm a 2 percent cost of living increase and a 1.5 percent merit increase, according to C-Tran public affairs director Scott Patterson. That puts Hamm's 2013 base salary at $126,308.16, up from $122,036.87 in 2012. Hamm's car allowance will also increase from $300 per month to $400 per month, Patterson said.

Though he has received positive evaluations from the board, Hamm's pay had not increased since 2008.

Hamm was hired as C-Tran's executive director in 2006.

Doesn't seem out of line to me, especially since he hasn't had a raise in 15 years.

Hawkman — January 18, 2014 at 10:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawk if you get a chance, talk with a few of the in the trench people that work for C-Tran. I know a few and they have all said that moral is very low among the worker bee's. Several are taking early retirement just to get out. They all have said the displeasure centers around Mr. Hamm. Disgruntled emploee's? Maybe. In a organisation that large you will always have some who are not happy.

timerick — January 19, 2014 at 8:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 18, 2014 at 10:28 p.m. -- I'm not sure of the intent of your post, but that was Hamm's raise in December 2012, when his base salary was raised to $126,308. Madore's post is talking about a raise from that amount to $131,000, which was apparently approved at the most recent C-Tran Board meeting. I'm not losing sleep over the raise itself (though if strictly up to me, Hamm would be gone) - What I'm zeroing in in is that The Columbian editorial board routinely rails against public employees getting raises, COLAs, etc, during these times when the private sector employee gets nothing. Your reminder of that raise a year ago accentuates that they're more than willing to ignore this "concern" when it's someone on the team who's benefiting.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 9:03 a.m.

That's all I could find on the raise except what was on Madore's page and ALL of that seems a little biased to me. I don't watch the C-tran meetings so I can't comment on that and I haven't seen the transcripts. Seems like the "C" would have had someone there unless they are running low on reporters these days.

As for the raise itself, since he got a good one last year, seems to me he should be good to go for a few more years before his next one. Madore seems to think that since he got a 14k raise, we won't have money to repair all the Vancouver roads. Maybe he should have thought of that before he decided to give the parks and permits away.

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 9:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 18, 2014 at 1:51 p.m.

Roger, re Camas/Washougal. pilots etc.
Lizzie Pike's significant other is an ex-pilot. Tried to run for Port commish and got soundly rejected by the voters; just like Lizzie bit the dust when she ran for mayor. We are talking low %, like less than ten.

They are all tea Party folks, not sure why, but they are. There are a couple more pilots floating around here; locally, we booted/rejected them. Why Liz got where she is right now, is still a mystery to me. Well, lots of money to put up signs galore and no real candidate to oppose her, comes to mind.

luvithere — January 19, 2014 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 9:44 a.m. -- Florip was there and reported on the meeting. Not a word about the raise.

Of course Madore's facebook page is biased. Everything we get from the politicos is - Whether from the locals like Madore, Waters, Lentz, etc, or from the state and national figures like Moeller, Murray, Jaime HB, Ann Rivers, etc. And I expect that a newspaper will have a bias too - they always have (all the claims to things like "fair and balanced" notwithstanding.)

My objection is that The Columbian has taken this obsession with Benton, and to a lesser degree Mielke and Madore, a bit too far. Most of this is through their APIL blog, which has gone from being somewhat amusing when Andrea Damewood was writing, to being snippy and sharp tongued (a couple of terms our "old folks" used to use). But this carries over to the newspaper itself, with Lou himself leading the charge into trying to sound more like a high school newspaper decrying the unfairness of the school dress code than anything relevant to the real world.

Manthou occasionally addresses the need for local papers, and the value they bring to a community. I agree. But this paper is meeting that expectation to an ever lessening degree - I'm routinely finding things in The Oregonian, Portland Tribune, Willamette Week, The Olympian, and the other two papers up north that affect us - yet no mention, or buried in the back pages here.

There really needs to be a change.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 10:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal

luvithere — January 19, 2014 at 10:08 a.m. -- I'm as clueless as you are as to why the Clark County Repubs are so enamored with people like that. (Though in fairness, Lizzie does show an ability to participate in the process - Brandon Vick is completely useless.) But the local Dem party has gone to the opposite end of the spectrum, and is dominated by a VERY liberal world view. It's a reason I support Stonier, Rivers, and anyone else who tries to move back to the middle. I don't have to agree with them on particular issues - this has degenerated to having to fix the basics of how to govern.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Right on Roger we have some like Moeller that take to the left extreme. They block what ever does not suit them as much as the far right do. I do agree with you on Rivers, Stonier I don't know much about but she does seem to want to at least work with others. What I don't understand about our current mayor is that I thought he leaned to the left. Now it looks like he moved way off center to be more like Moeller. His big money supporters are mostly old time republicans not of the tea party. It should be a very interesting year.

timerick — January 19, 2014 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 10:43 a.m.

I agree there needs to be a change, maybe Andrea should be the editor. I also agree with you about Lou, I think his "game" is wearing thin and I'm getting a little tired of it. The paper took a pretty big hit with this paywall and they need to do something to freshen up.

As for Benton, if it was me, I keep the pressure on until after the trial, if there is one. His hiring was WRONG on so many levels. I can't tell you how much I dislike that guy.

On another note, were you aware that Ms. Lentz , Jim Mains and Noland Hoshino have started a new company together called High Five Media? Kind of interesting.

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal

Manthou asked the other day about Benton no longer being on the Transportation committee. I just checked his assignments and see he's Vice Chair of the Governmental Operations committee. The website describes this committee's function as "The Senate Governmental Operations Committee considers issues relating to elections; campaign finance; public disclosure; public records; open public meetings; land use and growth management; the operation of counties, cities, and special purpose districts; ethics in government; and the administrative functions of state government." I also see they've got an item pending - Modifying water-sewer district provisions. A quick scan says the intent is to put controls on a city reaching out to absorb local water and sewer districts (something that I think is supposed to happen somewhere on the northwest side in the future). At any rate, I can see all kinds of possibilities with this assignment. For starters, this committee is relevant to his County job and could possibly be used to support his qualification to hold it. I'm wondering about that operation of special purpose districts (C-Tran? SW WA RTC?) and the bit about administrative functions of state government (WSDOT?).

Ann Rivers is also on this committee. They also both serve on the Rules committee, which determines what comes to the floor for a vote. Ann remains on Ways and Means, which deals with the budget.

I'm thinking the relevance of the change (for Benton) is that we're past the point where the Transportation committee will decide CRC participation, but they will be making some expensive (for us) decisions on the tax bill. He's out of that picture (and can avoid the blame when many of his constituents start raising hell), and as Vice Chair of Government Operations just perhaps can get something on the table that affects the ability of state or local to support the "Oregon alone" CRC project. We'll see.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 12:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 11:18 a.m.

Manthou told us about that recently. I see that their resume is mainly recent elections - I guess they decided they were spending so much time on their various websites dealing with these things that they may as well get paid!

They represent what I dislike about political campaigning. Ron Goodman puts out a much better, more informed and informative product than any of these three do. (Actually, I think they depend on his work.) This ties to what Jayne's column today got me thinking of - how an advertising campaign affects an election. People (as a group, not individuals) are mostly uninformed about issues, and vote largely based on catchy sound bites. The Topper-Stewart contest came down to Stewart being old and tired, while Topper is young, vibrant, and wants to get to Yes!!! If anyone took the time to listen to her interviews, Topper is relatively clueless on how to build the economy, but she said that's what she stands for. Whatever - That she is just going to go along with whatever Leavitt wants is the problem of City residents.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 12:07 p.m.

"The Senate Governmental Operations Committee considers issues relating to elections; campaign finance; public disclosure; public records; open public meetings; land use and growth management; the operation of counties, cities, and special purpose districts; ethics in government; and the administrative functions of state government."

The fox watching the hen house, huh?

Sounds like there could be a conflict of interest in there someplace with his "job at home". I'll bet he can come up with a new rule that will allow him to do his County job from Olympia and collect both checks at the same time.

I don't like the guy, I don't trust the guy. He's what we used to call "sideways".

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Another thought,

Hey Columbian!!!! Since we are now paying for this, can you get rid of the "captcha"?

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Is Jayne is auditioning for a dumb downed Siskel & Ebert job for Madore's new rag? Wiki? Stay tuned. (Please God-let it be true)


Happy NFL day to everyone.


"That's the argument in this County - Do we elect people and expect them to make good decisions for us, or do we elect them to vote how the majority wants them to?"

roger — January 18, 2014 at 12:30 p.m.

Primarily we elect political candidates to make good decisions for us. It's the only reason we have elections. It's the only reason we vote.

Given the countless day to day decisions to be made, there's no way to gauge what the majority wants on any given item. Besides, we're supposed to elect leaders, not ones driven by polls, consensus, or sticking their finger in the wind. There's a difference between public oversight and constituent micromanagement.

"But the local Dem party has gone to the opposite end of the spectrum, and is dominated by a VERY liberal world view."

What reasoning/examples do you have? What do you consider "a VERY liberal world view"?

nailingit — January 19, 2014 at 1 p.m. ( | suggest removal

"Why Liz got where she is right now, is still a mystery to me."

luvithere — January 19, 2014 at 10:08 a.m.

"I'm as clueless as you are as to why the Clark County Repubs are so enamored with people like that."

roger — January 19, 2014 at 10:57 a.m.

I don't know if you two were being sarcastic, but just in case you weren't...

It's because many local republicans are complete idiots.

nailingit — January 19, 2014 at 1:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal

OK. Here comes Madore again, drumming up business unilaterally.

Apparently, Ann Rivers hosted a presentation by Linda Figg, the engineer who designed that I35 W bridge replacement. Remember the one that fell into the river near the Twin Cities?

David Madore is schmoozing her big time and reports that she will provide a CRC alternative proposal for free. At his request, mind you. There is a cute photo of them cozying up on his FB page.

Now, I am all for competition (her philosophy and track record is intriguing) but aren't there channels he needs to go through first?

God speed, David. Maybe you can pay for your own East County crossing, if Oregon will give you the permits. :)

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 2:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 19, 2014 at 1 p.m. -- "What reasoning/examples do you have? What do you consider "a VERY liberal world view"?"

First off - Nice to have your presence! I was actually expecting that later comment about Topper to pull you out, but whatever works.

Jim Moeller and Annette Cleveland. (I'm not sure about Sharon Wylie - she seems a little more to the center on some things.) Anyone who believes someone should pay for something they have no use or desire for, so someone else who wants it but can't afford it can have it, is espousing a liberal world view. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying it is. Seeing as how you're kind of far off in that direction yourself (per your own admission), you just don't recognize it as being the far left.

For example, the whole issue of requiring an insurance policy, if it offers maternal care, to include abortion coverage. A more moderate view would be to accept that a whole lot of people hold religious convictions that oppose abortion, and that this is probably an unreasonable requirement to place on them. The current state of liberal politics doesn't give a damn about what those people believe - They're expected to buy policies with this coverage so there's a large enough pool to insure that abortions are available and affordable for those who do want them.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal

nailingit — January 19, 2014 at 1:20 p.m. -- "It's because many local republicans are complete idiots."

That might be a bit drastic an explanation.

That discovery of the intended scope of the CRC in 2007/2008, that it was considered a done deal and no input from the outlying areas was desired, and that it was backed by the 49th District Democrats, pushed a lot of people to the Repub side - for voting, if not party membership.

The same thing happened on the national level that year, due to the health care plan and the refusal of Speaker Pelosi to allow Repub participation in the planning.

People will elect those who they are certain won't change their story once elected (e.g., Leavitt running with the support of the Repub party) for big issues like this (and the ACA on the national level). Boldt should have beaten Madore, even after being disowned by the local party for refusing to commit to their local version of the Norquist pledge, but he stopped short of committing to oppose the CRC. Many voted for Madore for that reason alone.

As I've said before, once the goal is accomplished (locally, the death of the CRC), then the extremists will lose much of the backing that put them in office.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 4:54 p.m.

OK Roger, now change the word abortion to cancer or broken bones or head trauma.

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 6:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Who paid Linda Figg's travel expenses for her chat with select legislators yesterday? I doubt they came from public funds. Why would she want to forge an alliance with one side?

Eric Florip? Bueller? Bueller?

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 2:26 p.m.,

I had to figure out what a turnkey project was - I thought at first it was a bridge design I hadn't heard of before. As it turns out, rather than building a unique design per customer demand, they provide you set options to choose from and build per their own specs. This apparently eliminates a lot of the planning cost, and allows the company to tender a bid and also say they'll eat the cost for overruns. The various designs on their website are pretty fancy, though. A lot of us just want a plain Glenn Jackson style bridge.

But I'm not sure that it's fair to point at Sir David. She was here seeing Ann Rivers and who else? The Senate has taken the position that a bridge is needed, but no rail - because we said we don't want it. (Yes - that was 1994, and things change. But that was the last word from the voters, and enough people in the Senate believe RCW 81.104 does in fact require this vote.) The Oregonian's political reporter (Esteve??) said the pre-session discussion in Salem on the CRC wasn't very promising for having Kitz's plan supported. It's very possible the Senate is going to offer up this company as the new contractor for a revived project.

Between this, Tesoro at the Port, and the Waterfront project - there's lots to keep an eye on. Too bad the focus is so heavily on Benton and the M's. By design?

roger — January 19, 2014 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 6:34 p.m. -- I don't think there's too much opposition to having an insurance policy cover those things.

I'm for a universal care program - I'm pretty sure I've said this a few times. And it should be paid for through payroll tax deduction, just like Social Security and Medicare. The government can then manage the plan, based on whatever restrictions Congress imposes. But when you're going to force us to take our checkbooks out and buy a commercial policy - one selected from several alternatives with different levels of coverage - then I think the check writer should have the ability to say they won't pay for something.

roger — January 19, 2014 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.

I think that's probably a fair assessment. I too, as you know, think it should be Medicare for all. Cover everything by payroll deduction but leave the employer out of it. I'm not versed in the rules about the ACA but I think there are several levels of coverage.

Hawkman — January 19, 2014 at 8:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger: There are many issues to monitor around these parts for sure and many more distractions. Which is the signal and which is the extraneous noise?

I'm simply curious. I'd like to know what the story is behind bringing Linda Figg to Vancouver. I am not opposed to it (who am I, anyway?), but it smacks a little of "extra-legislative" maneuvering as if to gather the troops before battle. Maybe Oregon is in on it, too.

Who was invited? Were all Clark County legislators included? Any Oregon ones? Who paid for her to come? Was the event covered by reporters? Did they even know about it?

The planning and event seems secretive.

I am also a bit creeped out by all the "Yes! Yes! Let Linda build it!" enthusiastic endorsements that are coming from Madore's FB sycohpants. Where's the skepticism and research and questions? We buy it and sign on, simply because Madore is scattering his glitter dust approval over it? Sparkly! Sparkly! I want! I want!

Isn't that what these same people complained about with the CRC planning? Citizens swallowing the bait whole, without due diligence?

I don't work in Oregon any more. My son has moved out of state from Portland. I can get to my cabin via Longview and US 30. Maybe I will blog about successfully making it through an entire year without ever crossing that infernal bridge.

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 10:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal

Sychophants, of course. But sycohpants is a good nick-name for someone. :)

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal

roger — January 19, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.

Championing universal health care is your response to- "Anyone who believes someone should pay for something they have no use or desire for, so someone else who wants it but can't afford it can have it, is espousing a liberal world view."

Brush get any broader? I suppose it would explain the sociopathic tendencies conservatives display when speaking of the poor.

nailingit — January 20, 2014 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal

"Sychophants, of course. But sycohpants is a good nick-name for someone." :)

manthou — January 19, 2014 at 10:05 p.m.

At times, Psychopants would work!

nailingit — January 20, 2014 at 11:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal

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