Open forum, June 9-15

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97 comments

Comments

Great article about Ed Barnes today. Nice that the columbian can interview a commissioner again.

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 6:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


A new week begins as do new issues incited by a member of the GOBK.

I am referencing a comment made by Mr. Ed Barnes in the article "Barnes sets agenda" by Tyler Graf. The comment...

"There are people I have been associated with, who I can get to come in and sit down and have a conversation with the county — if they want to have the conversation. I'm not going to bring people in just so they can listen to what they have to say and not advance some of their ideas."

Yes, from the surface, it appears he's trying to bring more jobs to the county...but is he really??? This tells me that people who he's been in association with have been doing a bit of elbow rubbing since he stepped forward for the position in order to obtain more work for established union-backed companies which in the long run would mean fewer hires but more dinero in the pocket of his "associates." You know the old cliche' - "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" rings loudly in my ears!!! Please don't tarnish what is left of the integrity of our local unions, sir.

Folks, I'll give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt, but I guarantee ya, my "GOBK" radar is on HIGH alert.

And Mister Barnes...this is a very strong indication why the voters chose people like David Madore...to push out the disgrace of elbow rubbers, even though it has had its consequences in recent months. Keep pushing your selective agenda and you'll be pushing out more of your cronies. I'm sure Jeanne will be more than proud to take over your temporary position.

And for those who don't know what I mean by GOBK, that's "Good Ol' Boyz Klub."

goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 6:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Oh yeah, hawkman...he's a personable guy. Seems right down pleasant, but I'm still keeping my radar on Mr. Barnes.

goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 6:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


"Nice that the columbian can interview a commissioner again."

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 6:32 a.m.

Great point. Barnes won't be content to isolate himself from the local paper/community and just message to a sycophantic crowd via a pop media site.

Evidenced from goldenoldie's post, republicans will be on the warpath against Ed. I sure admire the guy. Especially to take this on at 80.

goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 6:37 a.m.

It's too bad 'Union' has become a dirty word for some in the working class. Right wing corporate messaging has taken hold.

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nails (June 9, 2014 at 8:10 a.m.):

It's too bad when a person who has the bawls to stand up for what she believes in; the same person who has the RIGHT to express what she believes SHOULD be put on the table for all to see in order for everyone to work towards a common goal with all who care to clean up the political arena when another person has to come along and throw in the political game card, polluting the message rather keeping an open mind and looking at the subject at hand from all views in the political spectrum.

Keep an open mind, nails. Ignorance is an ugly concept. I had no push...no political or financial backing...no elbows rubbing in my direction in order to state what I stated. I just stated what I believed to be the obvious. I no longer associate myself with any political party as long as the same old, same old continues. We need a positive change, nails...and it is all too obvious the change isn't happening at the commissioners' office. It's more of the same old, same old...just a different political leadership taking it to extremes.

If right wing corporate messaging begins as a result of my statement, it's only because they too see the message in the statement by Mr. Barnes as well. I would say the same to any view in the political world, no matter WHO said it. If change isn't made soon, we'll just be seeing more of the same old, same old political BS which has plagued our county...our nation for far too long.

goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal


...someone has their Cranky Pants on this morning. :)

It's a substitute for, well, substance!

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Bringing this forward and updating from Hawkman's post last week.

Just another tragic event in what used to be a great place to live, Vegas.

-Las Vegas Shooters Boasted About Protesting At Cliven Bundy's Ranch-

The suspects, a married couple who allegedly shot and killed two police officers and a third individual before killing themselves, reportedly espoused anti-government and white supremacist views. According to neighbors at their apartment complex, the shooters claimed to have an extensive gun collection, and talked about the time they spent at Bundy's Nevada ranch during an April standoff with the Bureau of Land Management.

..

Police sources told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that the shooters shouted "this is the start of a revolution" before killing the officers. After killing the officers, the couple covered the bodies with a cloth displaying the Gadsen, or "Don't Tread On Me" flag -- a Revolutionary War-era symbol that has since been adopted by the tea party. Investigators also found swastikas at the suspects' apartment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/09/las-vegas-shooting-cliven-bundy_n_5473662.html

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal


So, it begs to be asked....

What is the difference between Associations and Unions? Or Coalitions and Unions? Or Alliances and Unions? Or Affiliations and Unions? Or a Guild, Society, League, Sorority, Lodge, Faternity, Brotherhood, or Cooperative and a Union? All that working together for the increase or improvement in quality and value of a like-minded goal, and most all with a fee in order to participate. Churches are so similiar in structure to Unions, and to the outcome they both strive for toward the mprovement of lives, they are fairly indistinguishable.

All that "elbow rubbing" and "selective agenda" and "cronies" coming together and going on all around us. Not to mention all that 'tarnishment' It's everywhere. Yikes! Who knew? And to think we had no idea how negative all that union-type working together really is til it was pointed out right here today...

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal


There are significant differences between fraternal organizations and labor unions.

Membership in, and donations to, fraternal organizations and churches are voluntary.

Business owners and their employees constitute two separate factions. With the passage of the Wagner Act of 1935, the Federal government granted legal support for employees to pursue union organizing activities without being fired for those activities, to form labor unions, to collectively bargain, and to use strike as a coercive means. In my opinion, in so doing, business owners were denied their own constitutionally guaranteed rights of freedom of association in that they were denied the ability to fire those they chose to, forced to engage in collective bargaining against their will, and prohibited in their right to replace striking workers, within a certain time frame. And then there's the question of freedom of association of those employees who do not want unions representing them. While two subsequent acts in 1947 and 1959 have fine tuned things, those are still the basics.

While it is also only my opinion, the subsequent SCOTUS decision upholding the Wagner act was solely political, coming in the midst of the Depression and on the heels of the FDR threat to expand and pack the Court from 9 to 15, after a previous and unwelcomed SCOTUS decision on farm subsidies.

I say again, the Left does not distinguish between public and private nor mandatory and voluntary.

kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 2:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"Yes, from the surface, it appears he's trying to bring more jobs to the county...but is he really??? This tells me that people who he's been in association with have been doing a bit of elbow rubbing since he stepped forward for the position in order to obtain more work for established union-backed companies which in the long run would mean fewer hires but more dinero in the pocket of his "associates." You know the old cliche' - "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" rings loudly in my ears!!!"
goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 6:37 a.m.

And then this jewel

"Keep an open mind, nails. Ignorance is an ugly "concept.goldenoldie — June 9, 2014 at 8:42 a.m.

So full of it!

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 4 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 2:25 p.m.
"Membership in, and donations to, fraternal organizations and churches are voluntary."

Really? So you are telling us that, for example, you are an Elk. You don't have to pay any dues if you don't want to?

Or let's say you belong to the Catholic Church. You're telling us that you aren't required to give them a certain percentage of your pay?

News to me.

Also, I belonged to a union for 25 years. We had several people remove themselves from the union and keep working at the plant.
The only thing they couldn't do was vote on the contract.

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


(SOMEone's been reading wiki again...:)

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 4:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 6:32 a.m.

I was wondering if they ever followed through on the planned switch from The Columbian to The Reflector. I was scanning the Want Ads in The C a couple of days ago, and a posting that the County Comms are going to hold a hearing on something to do with forest lands jumped out at me.

roger — June 9, 2014 at 6:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


(SOMEone's been reading wiki again...:)
nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.

Ohoh, is wikipedia some sort of poor relation or stepchild, and I didn't know? Dangit, I've even donated $$$ to them! In fact, I looked up 'freedom of association' just today because of kn_dalai's post at 2:25 p.m., which by the way, says nothing about employers, but much about unions and churches, etc.

Between you and me and the fence post, I usually don't have the inclination or the necessity to sort through myriad scholarly tomes or scientifically accepted journals for the various blips of interest that might whiz past my curiosity in any given day, and so wikipedia, with it's evaluation boards and peer reviews, has to suffice for the everyday stuff. I know it can't be referenced as a research source in academic research, but that's fine. If I get a flea in my bonnet I can do the hard stuff and check deeper, but as a go-to Wikipedia works for me.

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 6:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 4:10 p.m.

If you don't want to pay dues to the Elk's club; then don't join. Maybe this fits your scrutinizing eye better: Membership in, and therefore donations to.... are voluntary. Which has nothing to do with compulsion by government.

To the best of my knowledge, any mainstream type church and denomination, including Catholics, welcome even non members to attend services, and that donations by all congregants, including "tithing" 10 % of one's income, is all voluntary. Just like attending church services is voluntary. None of which has anything to do with compulsion by government.

I believe that that employee who doesn't pay union dues and can't vote on the contract is still bound by the terms and conditions of that contract. But that management is legally bound to collectively bargain for all rank and file employees with the NLRB certified union, whether they like it or not. Which IS all about government compulsion. If not, THAT'S news to me.

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.

Wikipedia can be great for a primer, or even more, so long as one is aware of the possible foibles of its open source nature. I've used Wiki many times, but this is not one of them. Sometimes, little tidbits once learned in college, are retained even through the haze of 1001 nights of chugging contests:)

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 6:36 p.m

Freedom of association is recognized as part and partial of the first amendment right of the people to peaceable assembly. Government isn't supposed to be able to tell you who you must, or cannot, associate with, which leads to conflicts in labor legislation, and public accommodations, like the bakery shop that doesn't want to bake a cake for the same sex marriage customer.

kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 7:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal


kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 7:09 p.m.
But that management is legally bound to collectively bargain for all rank and file employees with the NLRB certified union, whether they like it or not. Which IS all about government compulsion.

Who cares?

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Now, this is cool! Fun is fun, after all....

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/ju...

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


se·man·tics
/səˈmantiks/
noun
noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics

the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
• the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.
plural noun: semantics
"such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"

Looks like the conceptual semamtics around here could use some arbitration. Any labor leaders around?

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 8:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 8:07 p.m.

If that's your attitude, then you shouldn't have responded in the first place.

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 8:24 p.m.

Constitutional scholars. Not labor leaders. ( Funny you think of labor leaders instead of business leaders). Even that wouldn't matter as they usually disagree amongst themselves. Just like SCOTUS does.

kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger: The official switch to The Reflector occurs on July 1, when The Columbian's contract expires.

manthou — June 9, 2014 at 8:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Well, that and $3.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 8:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.

"Wikipedia can be great for a primer, or even more, so long as one is aware of the possible foibles of its open source nature. I've used Wiki many times, but this is not one of them. Sometimes, little tidbits once learned in college, are retained even through the haze of 1001 nights of chugging contests:)"

kn_dalai — June 9, 2014 at 7:09 p.m.

Why...I pretty much agree.

It appears someone new is posting under this handle. I wasn't priggishly called a leftist liar and condemned to hell.

COOL! And welcome!

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 8:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman @ 8:48 p.m.

Wow, $3.50 for a cup of coffee? A vente (20 oz) at Starbucks is $2.44 w/ tax, tho their fufu drinks are more than double that. My dad quit buying coffee by the cup while dining out when it went from 10 cents a bottomless cup to 25 cents a bottomless cup. He'd have a royal fit if he knew that I pay around $5 a week just for a of coffee twice a week.

jacjak — June 9, 2014 at 9:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


I have an old fashioned electric coffee pot. No paper filters, 5 parts to wash, costs 32 bucks, and brews great coffee.

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 9:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 9:24 p.m.

As long as you don't actually buy a real cup of coffee, you can keep believing that. ;-)

Hawkman — June 9, 2014 at 9:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hey...maybe it's the Yuban!

nailingit — June 9, 2014 at 10:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Big day in local government: Ed Barnes gets sworn in this morning at the ever-interesting BOCC meeting at 10 am. Then on to C-Tran at 5:30, where he becomes its newest board member. Let's see if anyone has the nerve to notice the elephant in the room: Madore's formal surprise complaints.

Hawk: I was replying to a comment roger made at 6:24 PM, not just tossing out that yawner to see if y'all are awake. :)

nailingit: At the SW Washington Behavioral Health Board on June 5 (where Madore enjoys 3 votes for the price of the other two commissioners' one), it is apparent that more conservatives are taking Madore to task. In this case, it is Repubulican Chris Brong, Skamania County Commissioner (who once gave the thumbs up to Madore's East County bridge idea) and Jim Misner, Cowlitz County Commissioner. They really give him an old fashioned woodshed (verbal) whipping that is worth the price of admission. I am forever stunned that none of this seems to faze Madore in the least. I will be even further stunned if this does not impact him in the next election. He won his seat based on a single platform that is now irrelevant: I hate all things CRC, tolls and light rail. He seems to be flailing, trying to find another hot button topic to snag his base once again. In the meantime, his gaffes are isolating him and angering people who once supported him. Amazingly, he just doesn't seem to care.

manthou — June 10, 2014 at 8:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The wild and crazy world of Clark County politics, according to Temple Lentz:

http://dailycouve.blogspot.com/2014/06/tuesday-june-10-2014.html

Any number of folks can step in as Ed's personal assistant Anna Miller clone. Betty Sue? Royce?

Applications being accepted now.

manthou — June 10, 2014 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — My take-Madore is a Christian narcissist, to include he's convinced himself he's doing God's will in whatever he does, hence, his cavalier attitude. I mean with almighty God on your shoulder...how can he do wrong? He seems to frame all situations as good vs evil, which is as bizarre as it is removed.

I appreciate we live in a democracy. I don't appreciate self serving politicians who tout their religion before all and the people who vote for them based on it. How can our elected listen to differing viewpoints when they sincerely believe a God is giving them direction, and "His" direction is to be served before all.

At some point in our politics, this needs to be addressed. Separation of church & state needs to become a larger conversation.

On a separate note: My daughter is working directly across the street from the Fred Meyer where kids are being escorted from Reynolds High. She said it's a wild scene with stores shutting down while police are looking for two more suspected shooters.

America owns these problems. As a society, I'm afraid we'll never get a grip on our country's gun violence. It's culturally celebrated and there's just too many guns on the street.

nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Nails, the entire world owns these problems. It's not just a problem here in America. I agree with you that we'll never get a grip on gun violence as well as senseless accidents involving firearms. Chances are, the gun used in the shooting at Reynolds High School wasn't in the hands of the owner.

My thoughts and prayers pour out to the students, faculty and families whose lives are forever changed because of this incident in Troutdale.

Too close to home...8'(

goldenoldie — June 10, 2014 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal


America owns these problems. As a society, I'm afraid we'll never get a grip on our country's gun violence. It's culturally celebrated and there's just too many guns on the street.
nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 10:09 a.m.

It is said that it's the mentally ill or the criminals that are to blame for the violence. So how does one know when a law abider is becoming mentally ill? After he becomes a criminal by using a gun? Do only criminals become mentally ill? Do only criminals have fits of rage or bouts of depression?

So, which is this guy in the baby department at Target? Obviously he's insane because he is carrying in a toy department. Or perhaps Shrek is right...he's compensating...

https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction#!/photo.php?fbid=572061252911799&set;=pb.300719666712627.-2207520000.1402427407.&type;=3&theater;

jacjak — June 10, 2014 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 10, 2014 at 12:41 p.m.

It's sad that people have become so disjointed, so unable to communicate with their neighbor...that it takes public display such as the one in the link you shared to impress upon the people and to make a visual statement in support of the right to bear arms. You know what is even more sad...

It's the ones who are carrying who have already violated the safety of others, the ones that you DON'T see who we should be most concerned about.

The issues are here and now. It is obviously IN our backyard so to speak. In fact, it's all around us. So I'm wondering... what would you recommend as an action for protecting ourselves? Do we avoid crowds? Do we avoid public places? What would jacjak do?

Our own sons and daughters, nephews and nieces, brothers and sisters and moms and dads can't even walk safely in the halls of our public schools schools. We never feared gun-related violence in our schools and public places and it's here and now. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Anybody who denies this is only fooling themselves.

goldenoldie — June 10, 2014 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — June 10, 2014 at 8:13 a.m.

Sorry, I wasn't responding to you. I was talking to KnD.

On another note, Nailingit!!! Your Yuban is going to be on sale at Safeway on Friday. It's $5 Friday. Be sure to stock up.

Now as for Reynolds High School, It will be interesting to find out more about the shooter and his motives.

Mentally ill? Absolutely!

Anyone see it coming? Who knows.

Access to a rifle? Someone's gonna pay somehow.

Hawkman — June 10, 2014 at 1:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


WOW!

-House Majority Leader Cantor Defeated in Primary-

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/house-majority-leader-cantor-defeated-primary-24081606

nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman — June 10, 2014 at 1:47 p.m.

Thanks for the Yuban alert! I try not to miss $5 Fridays. Lately I've noticed 5$ Fridays becoming more like $5.59 or 5.69 or 5.99 Fridays. I mentioned this to the checkout lady a few weeks ago. She smiled and said, "I know what you mean." I suggested they cut the middle and call it $5.50. What the hell. Even price gouging has become a joke.

nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 5:26 p.m.

Seems Cantor fell out of favor with the Baggers in the Richmond area because of his support for a phased citizenship for illegals.

roger — June 10, 2014 at 5:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 10, 2014 at 5:45 p.m.

All kinds of shenanigans going on. Ain't politics great?

-Cooter Has A Plan To Unseat Eric Cantor. It's So Crazy It Just Might Work.-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/06/ben-cooter-jones_n_5463196.html

nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail I know you and Manthou are more liberal than I and some others here. But you all seem to listen to what others have to say. I had a few words with Mr. Moeller today. There is no compromise with that man at all. He is totaly unwilling to work with the other side. This kind of action does not help at all. Until we can get people like him and those like him from the other side to listen we will never get anything constructive done for our people. They should let us here in the basement run things. It might be better.

timerick — June 10, 2014 at 8:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — Sorry to hear that about Rep Moeller. You might be right about the basement running things. Then again... :)

nailingit — June 10, 2014 at 10:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Timerick - Arrogant politicians eventually get voted out of office. This is what happened to Cantor today and it will eventually happen to Moeller. Our elected officials work for all the citizens in their district - even if they disagree with each other. When politicians forget this, they eventually lose their job.

Woosker — June 10, 2014 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Tim,

That unwillingness to compromise goes both ways. I had a short chat with Benton a couple of years ago - we started off in agreement and he was quite friendly (I said at the time a good guy to down a couple of brews BSing with). Once we got to a difference of opinion he clammed up, tuned me out. I've had a couple of chats with Mike Briggs in the past - he's the same way. It's one of the reasons I'm so adamant in my support of Monica Stonier - she's one of the few one can have a decent two-way conversation with without having to agree with her on everything.

roger — June 11, 2014 at 5:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal


And I thought the Bagger movement was toning down. Looks like in places like Virginia and Texas it's stronger than ever.

roger — June 11, 2014 at 5:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal


:)

No double standard here. A college professor with little political experience getting elected and celebrated on the right. This guy's a real gem. At least he's not afraid to openly embrace Ruskie Ayn Rand as so many are. Ruskie on the rocks with a side of Becktonian Jesus Juice.

God help us...

-So Who's The Guy Who Just Beat Eric Cantor? Meet Dave Brat-

*He's an Ayn Rand proselytizer.

Brat has taught classes for a program sponsored by BB&T; bank that aims to spread Ayn Rand's principles to college students. Brat got a $500,000 grant from the bank to bring the program to Randolph-Macon College and co-authored a paper titled “An Analysis of the Moral Foundations in Ayn Rand.”

*Cantor's campaign labeled Brat as a "liberal economics professor," however.

He doesn't think much of Cantor's conservative credentials.

*Brat said Cantor "doesn't understand what free markets are" in an interview Tuesday and calls himself a "free market guy." On his website, he claimed Cantor has been "a consistent supporter of big government."

*As for himself, Brat said he will never increase taxes and vowed to repeal the Affordable Care Act. "We need to also scrap employer-based health insurance, and give those incentives to individuals to carry their own portable health insurance," he said of health care, adding that "If we did that, the issue of pre-existing conditions largely goes away."

*Brat also pledged not to vote on a debt ceiling increase as part of a five-year promise.

*He had the backing of much of the anti-establishment establishment.

*Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin, Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck all came out in support of him leading up to the primary.

*He claims he won't be in office for too long.
One of his main promises before the primary was to "fight for term limits - including for myself."

*His campaign was incredibly financially efficient.
Brat won the primary even though Cantor radically outspent him, by more than 6 to 1. He spent about $120,000 to Cantor's more than $5.4 million.

*He appears to have successfully tarred Cantor as a "pro-amnesty" candidate.

"A vote for Eric Cantor is a vote for open borders," Brat said at a campaign event with conservative radio host Laura Ingraham, according to Breitbart News. "A vote for Eric Cantor is a vote for amnesty. If your neighbor votes for Eric Cantor, they're voting for amnesty, and they know it," Brat added.

Brat told Breitbart News "One you announced that kids are welcome, they're going to head in," and has called Cantor "the No. 1 cheerleader in Congress for amnesty."

*He thinks religion has been short-shrifted.

Brat wrote in a 2000 paper that "Religion has for too long been placed on the backburner of history when it may be one of the driving forces in history."

Read More @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/dave-brat-eric-cantor_n_5482610.html

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Actually Roger - The tea party establishment was not backing Brat. There was some small local support. The guy door knocked and gave detailed explanations of his views. Meanwhile, Cantor sat back, thought the voters no longer mattered and was focused on the speaker position. This is democracy in action. All of congress needs a shake up on both sides. They are absolutely useless. They refuse to work together and instead make crap up to blame each other. People are tired of it and this is why Cantor is out. Being an economics professor proabably helped Brat since he understands economics and can explain it to voters in a logical manner. The borders need to be secured. It does not make sense to have immigration reform until this happens and most people agree with that. I wish we had the money and the means to take care of everyone in Mexico. When I see these families on t.v, it makes my heart hurt. Unfortunatly we can't take care of the swelling number of people crossing into the U.S. - not to mention the criminals and possible terrorists crossing back and forth freely. It's crazy and must stop before reform can implemented.

Woosker — June 11, 2014 at 9:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Something to chew on.

-Home-Grown, Right-Wing Terrorism: The Hate the GOP Refuses to See-

As the Las Vegas shootings show, right-wing extremism is real and on the rise. But for Republicans, better to focus on the Muslims.

Remember in 2009, right at the start of the Obama era, when then-Secretary of Department of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano issued a report (PDF) entitled: “Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment”? The report was truly prescient. It alerted us to the rise of right-wing extremism, such as from white supremacist groups, and warned that unchecked, it could lead to violence.

How did Republicans respond? They went ballistic attacking the report. John Boehner was especially upset that Napolitano would use the term “terrorist” to “describe American citizens who disagree with the direction Washington Democrats are taking our nation,” adding, “using such broad-based generalizations about the American people is simply outrageous.”

Well, what have we seen since 2010? An explosion in the number of hate groups and a rash of domestic terrorist acts committed by those very right-wing groups Napolitano warned us about.  Per the Southern Poverty Law Center, since 2010, there have been 32 instances of terrorism by far-right groups—that equals eight attacks per year. (Of course, citing the SPLC won’t move many on the right because they continually tell me on Twitter that the SPLC is biased. They’re correct, the SPLC is biased. Against bigotry.)

The attacks include a plot in 2011 by members of a Georgia militia group to bomb a federal building and release deadly ricin in Atlanta; an attack by a white supremacist on a Sikh temple in Wisconsin that killed six people; another white supremacist planting bombs at a Martin Luther King parade in Seattle; and numerous plots against or actual killings of law enforcement officers.  And this list doesn’t even include the anti-government LAX gunman who killed a TSA officer and wounded another in November 2013, or the attack we saw this past weekend by Jerad and Amanda Miller, who executed two Las Vegas policemen and then tossed the Gadsden flag used by the Tea Party onto the dead officers’ bodies.

So how have Republicans responded to the rise of attacks by right-wing groups? By ignoring it and keeping their focus on foreign terrorists and Muslim-Americans. Perhaps the Republican members of Congress would find it instructive to reread the oath they took upon being sworn into office that provides in part: “I do solemnly swear to defend the United States…against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

Read More @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/11/home-grown-right-wing-terrorism-the-hate-the-gop-refuses-to-see.html

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — June 10, 2014 at 1:18 p.m.

Owning guns has NOTHING to do with flaunting them in parks, at fairs, on public streets, in restaurants and toddler departments at malls. That has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, and more to do with vanity, ego, intimidation, bullying, promoting fear, escalating agendas and divisions, and probably as many more things as there are adjectives to describe the action, but it has nothing to do with being able to own a gun. Nowhere in the 2nd amendment does it say anything about having guns up in the face of other citizens.

Yet, there are those who stand around in the public spaces brisling with firearms who may or may not think they are some sort of deterrent to those who may be up to no good. There are those whose own self esteem is enhanced by a big gun, or knowing others are looking, or are being made uncomfortable. Or they themselves may be up to no good. How's a diner or a shopper to know the difference until the shooting actually starts? It can only escalate anxiety. It intimidates and causes the 'flight or fight' tension to manifest, all by the simple but unnecessary presence of fire power.

With all that's going on in the world, within the divided forum of opinion, and in a rapidly pressurized society, that makes those that display their guns majestically foolish, in my opinion. Not for all the reasons I can think to list, but mostly because they have made themselves the standard bearers, the permission granters, the conspicuous leaders for any of those enraged persons who may have darker tendencies, or the mix of volatility, angst, and discontent seething, perhaps still subconscious, but there. And, who knows when the rationalization process begins?

So, if you see someone standing in a baby department of a store armed to the teeth *just because he can*, you've already accepted the culture of violence which threatens the list of family members you mentioned. If you think strutting guns in public is necessary in order to acknowledge that person's right to own those guns, you've already made a choice regarding the safety of public spaces and Gun Free Zones. I can only speak for myself, but I have no problem with comprehending the 2nd amendment without object lessons or visual aids. I'd like to assume most citizens can likewise.

jacjak — June 11, 2014 at 11:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak: Oh, my. Your opinion: spot on with me. Thank you for that.

Just read that the freshman shooter at Reynolds was armed to the teeth with weapons he obtained at home.

What does the average family need with an AR-15?

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 12:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Our state Republicans, in 2013, auctioned off an AR-15 to raise money. Sweet, eh?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/apr/12/ar-15-sale-will-raise-gop-funds/

Yesterday, at the BOCC hearing, Tom Mielke disclosed that his wife successfully bid for a gun at a Republican fundraiser dinner. Was it this one? I need to research if the Clark County Republicans also auctioned off a weapon as a fund raiser or if she is the lucky one with an AR-15. He emphasized, rather defensively, that she feels "safer."

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 12:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Ok, it gets good now.

The Clark County Repubs also auctioned off an AR-15 in 2013 (won by Tom Mielke wife, according to Mielke) and invited Richard Mack as a guest speaker.

Richard Mack. Militia devotee Richard Mack Bundy Ranch Richard Mack. The recent Las Vegas cop killers were Richard Mack devotees, apparently.

Clark County: making both of their states so proud.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/ap...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/09/1305609/-Las-Vegas-shooter-confirmed-to-be-participant-in-Bundy-Ranch-standoff#

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 1:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou several hunter groups auction off firearms at their fund raisers. I have over the years won 2 from Ducks unlimited and 1 from the Oregon Elk Foundation. There are many more you could add to the list. Lots of people enjoy taking their AR-15's and use them for shooting sports. I have never owned one and I don't participate in the shooting sports. I have hunted with my family since I was 12 years old. I also taught firearm safety for over 12 years. One thing you might want to check out is how many people in Clark County have concealed permits. I think you might be surprised as to how many walking around you everyday have permits to carry.

timerick — June 11, 2014 at 1:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal


One more interesting link, folks. You don't hear from me for days on end, so I am making up for it this afternoon.

Liz Campbell's passionate testimony at the BOCC hearing yesterday starts at the 15:50 mark. Madore and Mielke's chiding of her for expressing her opinion ends at about 20:00.

During this exchange, Mielke admits that his wife was the winner of the auctioned gun, but Liz's words are worth hearing, especially since they follow knowledge of the Reynolds shooting.

http://old.cityofvancouver.us/cvtv/cvtvarchive2/Clark_County_Board_of_Commissioners/2014_Events/June_2014/06-10-14/5_Public_Comment-Clark_County_Issues.mp4

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: I know. But help me understand: what is an AR-15 good for?

My husband is learning to safely use a gun, with the encouragement of his law enforcement buddies, who accompany him to the firing range.

I am asking, what good is an AR-15? Why would someone want one of those?

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou I don't do shooting sports but I do know several who do. Some don't hunt and just do the shooting sports. They do it for the competition. For them it is no different than running or any other sport. Shooting sports are huge. Rifles,shotguns.pistols. We even have shooting sports in the Olympics. It is a world wide sport. Competition with the AR-15 is no different than any other firearm.Some states even allow people to use a sporterized model to hunt with. I'm not trying to be a advocate for the NRA. I have never belonged to the group and I don't intend to. Ask your husband if his friends in law enforcement enjoy shooting. And I would bet that some belong to the NRA. I know several officers who do.

timerick — June 11, 2014 at 2:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail - Regarding the murder of the two officers in Las Vegas. Those two were actually kicked off the Bundy ranch after a couple days. I think politics should be kept out of the murder of these people. They murdered because they are crazy. Left wing, right wing, it's an argument without merit. Crazy is crazy. I guess we could blame it on slender man since that was their inspiration but the bottom line is there are a lot of very sick people in this world.

Manthou - The AR15 is a very accurate. Many are self cleaning and don't jam. Very reliable gun for hunting, sport and in home self defense.

Jacjak - I am a strong 2A supporter. However, I agree with you on open carry. It makes me nervous when I see it. I think it's just meant to be in your face, "see I can do this." Matter of fact, it also seems to work against personal safety. If an active shooter comes in, the first person getting shot is the open carry guy.

Woosker — June 11, 2014 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 11, 2014 at 11:34 a.m.

jacjak, you absolutely hit the bullseye with your statement and I thank you for stating it so clearly!!!

I myself, do not believe it is necessary for hormonal men to strut around with an AR-15 or any other form of firearm, strapped to their chest or waist in public view in order to make a statement of any kind. I believe it invites trouble. There's already too many who shouldn't possess firearms that are in possession and they are especially the ones for which I am concerned. Take the problem yesterday at Reynolds. The 15 year old was fully armed when he opened fire on the other student and teacher. Another student was caught with a gun. Why? Where did he get it?

You can teach your children to be responsible with hunting rifles and shotguns, but it is my opinion that the parent is clearly irresponsible when they have the type of firearms this teen had in his possession to begin with. Was there an issue of mental illness in the house? Should this household have even had those guns or any guns for that matter??? I'm pretty sure the police will let us all know eventually.

Now...my question once again for you (worded slightly different)...how do we protect ourselves and our loved ones in the community from those who are irresponsible?

goldenoldie — June 11, 2014 at 3:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker —

After a couple of days...

Imagine letting these guys hang a couple days at the house. Even if I were crazy enough to let it happen, my family would snap me out of it.

I understand how these two maniac's principles didn't align with Bundy's religious values. But they probably dug his anti-government freeloading get-something-for-nothing approach to cattle grazing. I wonder if they kept their future plans to themselves...

Outlaw factions are attracted to this type of extremism. It draws them in. Combined with the Right Wing media Overlords approval and you have something waiting to go wrong.

I disagree politics are without merit in this conversation. Ideology drives politics, left or right, and the extremism that results are sometimes the party's responsibility. It's unfortunate right wing media and republican politicians distorted and glamorized the Bundy situation, instead of calling it what it was. Just your typical lawbreaking tax dodger hiding behind guns & ammo.

Right Wing extremism seems to be considerably more violent than most left stuff. Outside of PETA sticking up for my Cat's rights and getting naked doing it, it's been awhile since much 'left' extremism has made the news. I'll take the four legged lovers over the AR-15 2A 'look how big my gun is' crowd any day.

Both a little crazy? Maybe.

But sometimes a little crazy is cool, as it can bring attention to a needful situation.

This kinda crazy just brings attention to being crazy.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal


"I myself, do not believe it is necessary for hormonal men to strut around with an AR-15 or any other form of firearm, strapped to their chest or waist in public view in order to make a statement of any kind."

goldenoldie — June 11, 2014 at 3:25 p.m.

This is not a gender issue.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal


You are right Nail extremism is extremism no matter what side we are talking about. If you remember a few years ago it was the left. Burning log trucks, destroying mink farms and chaining themselves to trees. I don't remember anybody getting killed but it may have happened. The extreme from the left have for the most part gone to the courts to get what they want. It has worked for them. These people that go gunning down those they feel are in their way are a extreme that I think neither side wants around. Survivalist's and skin heads are breed apart from either party. They don't belong in our society.

timerick — June 11, 2014 at 3:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail - I get what you are saying.. I just see it different. In my opinion, it's like the religion crazy that kills in the name of God. (Christian, Muslim, etc.) They distort the religion as a means to act out their insanity and/or sick, twisted beliefs. Same for the people who murdered our brothers in Las Vegas. They attach to some distorted view and run with it. ie - they are crazy. Regarding the ranch, there were a lot of protestors there. They gave them the boot when they realized these two were not stable. In my opinion, they did their due diligence by removing them. I would argue that every cause/political belief/religion could be tarnished by someone that uses that cause/political belief or religion to exact violence.

Woosker — June 11, 2014 at 3:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — "The extreme from the left have for the most part gone to the courts to get what they want. It has worked for them."

Will you provide a couple of examples of the extreme left winning court battles? I'm always curious as to what folks think extremism is, and as it pertains to either side.

The right has also gone to the courts to get their way. Abortion restrictions, gay discrimination, restrictive voting measures, repealing health laws, Citizens United, deregulating EPA standards, big businesses and banks, just to name a few. Usually trying to reverse past decisions, or taking new ones to the extreme.

Fortunately many of their challenges and lower court decisions have been overturned or thrown out due to that pesky constitution. Unfortunately, Republicans have taken advantage of this current 5-4 conservative SCOTUS make-up to push through some very poor decisions.

Like Citizens United.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — I respect your opinion and the reasons behind it. One of those 'agree to disagree' things I guess.

Maybe on the whole, we'd be better off with an agreeable 'agree to disagree' approach in our state and national political discourse.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal


F Decker. An enigma. One day he sounds like an intelligent and thoughtful person. The next day a complete.....

Frank I was getting on board with you.

*If you run for office I'd be proud to serve as your #1 political advisor.

Some free advice. Stick to messaging about public education and Lewinsky Waters. All other issues, just evade and deflect like most politicians.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/ju...

* $500 per day plus expenses.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 4:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Nail - Maybe on the whole, we'd be better off with an agreeable 'agree to disagree' approach in our state and national political discourse.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 4:34 p.m

I agree with you 100%
We may not agree on everything but I'm very glad you are always here. :)

Woosker — June 11, 2014 at 4:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker and timerick: I appreciate your feedback on the AR-15 attraction. Just too much firepower for my personal tastes, which amount to a good security system at home, a Rottweiler mix and a can of pepper spray.

I am glad you agree on the open carry problem, Woosker. It is too "in your face" unnecessary: an act of aggression and intimidation just because.

I do know people who have concealed weapons permits. No flaunting. They are skilled and they don't have to show it off. People who work in probations, law enforcement, criminal defense and prosecutors: none I know open carry off the job.

Funny related anecdote today: I had to pick up something from someone at DES at the Clark County service center this afternoon. She said to me: "I'm locked in here. You cannot meet me at my office without a lot of effort, so I will meet you with the materials in the lobby." Don Benton's fear of being hunted down at work, you know, caused part of the department to be isolated from those it "serves." I am sure he packs heat, along with those extra pounds. Leave the darn door open.

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 5:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal


And now, after all the AR-15 discussion (and BTW GO, if I was to say something to the effect of "a hormonal woman" I know you'd jump all over me) I've got a bone to pick with the "commissioners". In this article, http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/ju... ,it states that 59K Clark County residents work in Oregon. There are only 99K residents here! The dumb-ass commissioners need to be doing something more than permit give-aways to get some industrial businesses in here. Madork wears his "JOBS" pin on his lapel, well, that ain't enough!

Hawkman — June 11, 2014 at 6:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk, that's never stopped you before. Ever walk into the sporting goods stores and observe the attitudes at the gun counter lately???

Yeah...testosterone city!

I've witnessed a few of the "guys" who strut their stuff with their rifles on the street...ALL ego!

Public display of rifles such as an AR-15 type by anyone, male or female is ridiculous unless you are on active duty as an officer. It's these post-apocalyptic shows that are feeding the frenzy to those who are convinced they need such weaponry.

..

"This is not a gender issue."

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 3:42 p.m.

Are you sure about that? How many of the highly-publicized shootings that have happened in public schools or even public places in...say...the past 10 years have been carried out by women???

goldenoldie — June 11, 2014 at 7:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie — June 11, 2014 at 7:26 p.m.

I guess you are having problems with "reading comprehension" these days. I said " (and BTW GO, if I was to say something to the effect of "a hormonal woman" I know you'd jump all over me)" and so you did.. Never said anything about guys or girls or guns, egos or testosterone.

Hawkman — June 11, 2014 at 7:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman @ 6:56 p.m.

According to the first link the population is about 438,000 in CC. The second is fun, tho could not find how many residents are employed. The third link says there are just over 120,000 employed but it's dated 2009, a very difficult economic time. Who knew there'd be so much data about little ole us and our tiny piece of paradise?!

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=what+is+the+population+of+clark+county+washington

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/53/53011.html

http://www.city-data.com/county/Clark_County-WA.html

jacjak — June 11, 2014 at 8:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Woosker — June 11, 2014 at 4:55 p.m.

Back at ya Woosk. I'm glad you're here also.

___

goldenoldie — June 11, 2014 at 7:26 p.m.

I clearly referenced your statement concerning demonstrative open carry. Not highly publicized shootings. Many women carry and are proud 2nd Amendment supporters.

Kentucky Senate candidate Alison Grimes comes to mind as a high profile outspoken female 2A supporter.

Not a gender issue.

nailingit — June 11, 2014 at 8:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 11, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.

Huh, maybe I read that crooked. Anyway, my point was that M&M; need to be doing more to bring jobs HERE!

Hawkman — June 11, 2014 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Thanks Nail. I just state my own thoughts. I don't do the research that you do. I do really pay a lot of attention to what is presented here on this forum. This forum has changed several thoughts that I had. Thank all of you for that. We may be different but we all are alike. Makes sense to me. I am willing to listen and change. I just wish that those that make the rules for us were as willing.

timerick — June 11, 2014 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkman @ 9:11 p.m.

It happens. I read crooked sometimes too, but the blood always rushes to my head....

jacjak — June 11, 2014 at 9:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Our state Republicans, in 2013, auctioned off an AR-15 to raise money. Sweet, eh?
- -
Ok, it gets good now.
--
manthou — June 11, 201
--------------------------------------------------------------

Guns obviously aren't your issue, are they.

DeeLittle — June 11, 2014 at 10:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawk @ 6:56 pm: Yep. The commissioners have trouble with numbers. At the C-Tran meeting last night, Tom Mielke expressed frustration that "75 out of 122" emails requested by David Madore had been withheld for privacy reasons. That was just too much, he complained.

He had to be corrected by Jeff Hamm: It was 138,000 emails total requested and only 75 held back.

Mielke was at the May meeting where the number of emails were a hot topic of a long discussion, but must have been snoozing with his eyes open. Or his memory is that impaired and he just forgot.

Our tax dollars at work, paying these intellectual giants.

manthou — June 11, 2014 at 11:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Worth a look!

-Political Polarization in the American Public-

How Increasing Ideological Uniformity and Partisan Antipathy Affect Politics, Compromise and Everyday Life

http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/

nailingit — June 12, 2014 at 6:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


At what point is one considered unfit for office. The big tent of right wing politics.

-Tea Party Candidate Says It's OK To Stone Gays To Death-

Scott Esk, a Republican Tea Party candidate in Oklahoma, got into a debate on Facebook last summer in which he advocated killing homosexuals.

“I think we would be totally in the right to do it,” Esk wrote in comments uncovered by Oklahoma journalist Rob Morris. “That goes against some parts of libertarianism, I realize, and I’m largely libertarian, but ignoring as a nation things that are worthy of death is very remiss.”

When pressed, Esk added: "I never said I would author legislation to put homosexuals to death, but I didn’t have a problem with it."

Esk is running for the state's House of Representatives. The primary is scheduled for June 24.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/11/scott-esk-stoning-gays_n_5486678.html

nailingit — June 12, 2014 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 6:53 am: That Pew study is fascinating. The sample size used is healthy: over 10,000 persons. Excellent graphics. We had a sense this was happening. I liked the part that shows how the "consistently liberal" prefer walkable places to live, as opposed to the rural areas. Explains the attraction of downtown dwelling with more of our youthful, politically-active young families. We could use the infusion of energized help. Afterall, us "geezer" grandparents are not going to be able to haul the mail on our own for too much longer.

So sad that "moderates" seem to be a dying breed.

DeeLittle: I am not anti gun (whatever that means to you). I was very clear that I am focused on the questionable value of the AR-15 to our everyday lives. It has fallen into unskilled hands way too often for my comfort level.

manthou — June 12, 2014 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit @ 7:10 a.m.

That's a stunning statement, considering it was said in America and on a public forum. To want to wipe out a whole community of individuals because of their private lives and personal relationships is just so... Taliban! Exactly when does the1st amendment cross the line into intimidation, threats, and incitement, and become a prosecutable offense? Especially incitement? Public figures know they have influence. When are they held responsible for endorsing harm on others? Incredible.

Yeah right, wants to institute Bible law into Oklahoma legislature, does he? Can't wait to see what happens! Giving those 1000 virgins to the winning army may be a real problem, even with people in Oklahoma, especially with out win record lately. And oh my, all those convoluted adultery punishments... yee haw!

Thought the guy looked a bit like Paul Harris.

jacjak — June 12, 2014 at 8:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal


manthou — June 12, 2014 at 7:53 a.m.

Moderates do seem to be dying off with no end in sight. Both sides becoming more and more insular, especially religious conservatives who drive a good part of the GOP.

Interesting that statistically, Dubya was a "uniter and not a divider". I'd argue bigotry and misinformation is the culprit more than O's policies.

"Fully 66% of consistently conservative Republicans think the Democrats’ policies threaten the nation’s well-being. By comparison, half (50%) of consistently liberal Democrats say Republican policies jeopardize the nation’s well-being."

This helps to explain why Republicans win off year elections. Passion and fear. No doubt driven by right wing media's demonization and misinformation of all things center and left. To fight fire with fire would be disingenuous. Not sure how this can balance out and fire up opposing views to vote.

I guess not to fuel division is to accept defeat on important issues.

A vicious cycle indeed.


nailingit — June 12, 2014 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 12, 2014 at 8:02 a.m.

Amazing this guy has any party support whatsoever. Spot on with comparing this behavior to the Taliban.

It's sad that this kind of rhetoric is acceptable at any level, let alone from our political candidates.

nailingit — June 12, 2014 at 8:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal


The irony.

-Nevada Republican Could Become Nation's First Transgender State Legislator-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/12/transgender-republican-_n_5488529.html

nailingit — June 12, 2014 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


goldenoldie

(part 1 - apparently there's a word limit. I better not lose part 2 after typing for an hour!)

You ask what would jacjak do? You mean, if I were omnipotent? First, anyone acquiring or carrying a gun with ill intent would immediately and forever instantly receive a crimson neon blinking sign right across their forehead that could not be removed, covered, or masked. It'd just come back. Nor could they kill themselves before their time. They'd then have the cross to bear, not potential victims and loved ones.

But, I'm not omnipotent, and only one person out of almost 314 million people, all whom are mostly busy, absorbed, preoccupied, distracted, uneducated, out of options, or unaware, so your singular inquiry is distracting. And, I had to think more directly... what would I do? What *can* I do should be the real question, because there's not one big solution that can be tidied up in a forum post.

As much as I am able would be the right answer. Would I actually directly resolve anything, with safety and reason restored? No. But all shattered glass starts with a multitude of tiny fissures that lead to webs that spread and weaken it until it does shatter. Gun violence is the glass, I am a fissure; writing letters is good, and something I do fairly often, not only to like-minded people, but also to those who insist that guns, as many as can be lugged around, is not necessary or healthy. And, I ask what they intend to do about it. I've ask them to up the dialog on responsibility and safety instead of 2nd amendment rhetoric intended to make political hay. I've ask them to start talking about guns and harm, and to consider sponsoring or co-sponsoring or supporting background check legislation.

Children are killing children, for crying out loud, and if someone even mentions background checks, they are overwhelmed and shouted down by only one segment of society that has conned everyone into thinking they are some sort of majority. Case in point: the posts accompanying yesterday's Columbian article about the Troutdale shooter. Those shouters are not the majority, and any poll with the NRA or anywhere else says so. So why aren't leaders, if they are Leading, saying that out loud while staring directly at the camera? Ask them! I did.

jacjak — June 12, 2014 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Part 2

Next I'd have to ask manthou if she knows why Madore has 3 votes on the SW WA Behavioral Health Board, and do behavioral experts have the same amount of votes. What background or qualifications does Madore have in order to hold that sort of influence on how behavioral issues and therapies are funded and served? Across America exactly how many decisions that impact our lives are made by those who are unqualified or uninformed? Or may have an agenda more about reelection or something else than actually contributing to livable solutions? Maybe it's time to start finding out. Asking direct questions about continuous budget cuts is worth the time writing letters. Those votes that gutted state run hospitals and halfway residences for the mentally ill had consequences. Reagan funded his tax cuts on the lives of those least able to defend themselves, the mentally ill, and gave us a population of homeless that has only gotten bigger.

It's time to pay attention to ALL the pieces in the puzzle, not just howling about guns and 2nd amendment rights. Did anybody even call down Joe the Plumber for his appalling statements after the shooting in CA? Or did they run and ask him to speak at some convention or other?

Being a fissure is not one big clear solution. Results on any task that is overwhelming is slow and hidden and unnoticed. But momentum can happen. With enough external force, things move, they don't stay the same. It's a scientific law that Newton told us about.

jacjak — June 12, 2014 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak @ 6:22 PM: Glad you take the time to write letters and advocate. It is so important.

Vanessa Gaston explained the weighted votes at the work session she had with the BOCC this week. Clark County (Madore) has 3 votes because it is the largest county in the SWBH Board. Cowlitz County has 2 votes and Skamania County has 1. All by population and use of services. She also explained that Clark County cannot be the majority without the support of one of the smaller counties and vice-versa. The two smaller counties cannot have a majority by themselves: they need Clark County's vote for anything to pass. Last week, for example, they would have been tied if they had taken a vote. Clark County was a no (3 votes opposed) and Cowlitz and Skamania together were 3 votes yes. Impasse.

The commissioners are supposed to listen to the mental health experts and make their policy decisions based on their educated advice. Supposed to, anyway. Madore claims to trust Vanessa Gaston very much, but we all know how reliable his praise it.

manthou — June 12, 2014 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal


Manthou,

I see there is an opening for someone on the planning commission if you can stand working with Madore and his sidekick. Personally, I couldn't but you have more patience than I.

Hawkman — June 13, 2014 at 5:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal


It's a slow day,

but this is Vantucky.

I'm watching an episode of 1 ADAM 12, and who happens along... but that holster sniffer Helen Crump! It's no secret, that after Sheriff Taylor gave this badge bunny the boot, Helen ended up in the City of Angels "dating" LA's finest.

But to see her schmoozing with career Patrol Officer Pete Malloy, I was a bit offended.

For Sheriff taylor of course.

I won't mention Pete's lack of ambition and rumored gambling issues.

Cuz hey, it's a free world.

And it's Friday.

nailingit — June 13, 2014 at 5:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal


-Resigning House Leader Cantor Reflects On All The Accomplishments He Thwarted-

WASHINGTON—Looking back on his 13-year tenure in the House of Representatives with reverence, resigning House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) reflected on the long list of accomplishments he had thwarted during his time in office, sources confirmed Thursday. “From obstructing a jobs bill to put Americans back to work in 2011, to derailing gun control measures any time they reached my desk, I feel blessed to have had such an incredible run of preventing productive policies, and even a few pieces of landmark legislation, from ever passing,” said Cantor, explaining that as a young man, he “never would have dreamed” that some day he would be in a position to hinder the entire American lawmaking process and completely neuter dozens of bills. “Of course, I’m disappointed because I thought I had many more years of impeding accomplishments ahead of me, and I’ll be the first to admit that I never quite managed to stall environmental policies as much as I would have liked. But at the end of the day, I’m very proud of how I helped Congress accomplish so little during my time in office.” Cantor added that he took solace that his legacy of hampering federal policy was secure, and trusted that “many, many more” in his party would be inspired to follow in his footsteps.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/resigning-house-leader-cantor-reflects-on-all-the,36268/

nailingit — June 14, 2014 at 7:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal


Hawkeye: Thanks for the endorsement, but Madore and Mielke would never in a million years approve me. First of all, I have been nipping at their heels with such reliability that they see my name or face and auto delete/ignore. Second, they are doing their best to appoint more crony Yes men and women to public boards. The Planning Commission, along with the Parks Commission are critical and have become daunting gauntlets for any applicant, even those who have sat on the boards for years.

As an aside: Disappointed that Ed Barnes seems to like the folksy personal anecdote as much as Mielke does. Ed and Tom: no one cares what you experienced in an unrelated incident 35 years ago. Stick to the topic and let's cut off about an hour from the Wednesday Board time meetings. Puleeze. ZZZZZZZZZ.

manthou — June 14, 2014 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 12, 2014 at 6:14 p.m.

Jayne delivers a good write bringing attention to America's gun woes.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/ju...

nailingit — June 15, 2014 at 7:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal


nailingit — June 15, 2014 at 7:07 a.m.

Maybe someday we'll get around to talking about WHY we've got all these shootings going on. Video games and Hollywood have glorified violence, but I'm not even sure those are the real problems. But they do go a long way toward giving some the idea that killing is acceptable behavior.

roger — June 15, 2014 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal


I see in the paper verison the C wrote a article in our view about the C-Tran and Trimet contract. The C appears to be back peddeling now on their support of the contract. I can't find the article on the web pages. Am I missing something?

timerick — June 15, 2014 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal


roger — June 15, 2014 at 9:36 a.m.

America's foundation was built on violence. Killing has always been with us and always will be, regardless of cause. Guns just provide a means to an end, and are most effective.

Imagine the controversy with allowing inexact science to determine what causes gun violence. Look at climate change.

We're no more a violent people then we were when we slaughtered America's early inhabitants to claim this land as our own. We can spend an eternity trying to figure out root causes, (and should) but in the meantime, in my opinion, we need to mitigate the damage we've already caused ourselves and enforce some common sense laws most Americans agree with.

nailingit — June 15, 2014 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick: Here you go:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/ju...

manthou — June 15, 2014 at 1:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal


roger @ 9:36 a.m. and anyone else

Video game and movie developers, authors too, perhaps have a more astute business acumen in following trends than in introducing them, tho the distance between which is which would be close. But, if we'd try to pinpoint why we have so many random or mass shootings these days vs maybe 50 or 60 years ago, we'd need to make a list, long and complex.

Food and medication additives and preservatives could be big on the list, tho there's been almost as much denial from the food industry as there was and is from tobacco or pharmaceuticals if anyone starts questioning too close. How do additives affect chromosones, especially those genes structures that may have a mutation predisposition? Studies in ADHD, hyperactivity, and autism spectrums already are pointing to specific dyes numbers in food. When our parents were bringing home Kool-aid in bright colors that we guzzled all summer it was made from natural ingredients (mostly). But now most dyes are chemically synthesized in a lab. Sodium benzoate, something they put in shampoos, is also in foods as a preservative, but mixed with vit. c becomes benzene, a carcinogen. What the heck are we doing to our cells with all that gunk in our foods. How many people do we personally know with food allergies, obsessive-compulsive disorder, or schizophrenia? These illnesses are fairly new in the last 50 years, and based on chemicals or their imbalance in the brain.

And, there's how we raise our kids, denying them failure and disappointment, then tossing them out into the storms of adulthood with some sort of mass-producted plasticized sense of 'self worth' that is interchangable and synonymous with every other teen or young adult. Where's the stablizing bedrock foundation in that if it should be needed when confronted with adversity or disappointment?

Or we could add religion and politics to the list, and how each or both has caused social polarization. Whether intentional or intrinsic as a systematic progression of societies, I don't know, but sure can see the effects being played out here in America and across the planet. Perhaps the last 50 years of contrasted ideas has more to do with technology and communication advancements than with the messages, but both religion and politics seem to have become raticalized and stringent than I ever thought possible even 15 years ago.

Ok, all this thinking is driving me to drink. And, I know where there's wine.

jacjak — June 15, 2014 at 5:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 15, 2014 at 5:26 p.m. -- That's a two glass post. Good stuff.

roger — June 15, 2014 at 7 p.m. ( | suggest removal


timerick — June 15, 2014 at 10:09 a.m. -- They suggested the C-Tran Board is concerned that terminating the contract will cost us $5 million. Too bad they stopped short of discussing where an unterminated contract could place us. Perhaps they're trying to divert attention from that discussion?

roger — June 15, 2014 at 7:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal


jacjak — June 15, 2014 at 5:26 p.m

Or we can blame it all on the internet and ALL that entails. Now, everyone is aware of EVERYTHING! Instantly! It's like having total awareness. We might just as well have wires plugged into our brains.

My captcha is a complete blur, no nothing. Wonder how this will go.

It didn't work, kicked me back.

Hawkman — June 15, 2014 at 8:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal


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